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Author Topic: Best snagging day ever!!!!!  (Read 30824 times)

bald_seagull

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2014, 08:28:42 AM »

As someone who just moved here in January,
I was looking for a new forum as the lake simcoe message board wont do me any good out here.
I check the site every day, fwr has given me the info to get out and enjoy the fishery that is 100% new to me.
I hooked into my first pacific coho, over a hundred cuttys and a couple nice bulls with info ive gained on here and am greatful because of it. FWR does a great job as being a online ambassador for fishing in the lower mainland. 

I see both arguments and other than the garbage on the banks, I dont understand why this is such an issue on here. Garbage is synonymous with fishermen anywhere you go. If you floss go floss, if you dont then dont, but you guys on here preaching (both sides) are worse than tv evangelists. Catch your fish how you want to, within the legal regulations.

Basically I'm trying to say quit the crying and get back to enjoying the sport that we all love.

Tightlines,

                   Dale   
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banx

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2014, 08:39:42 AM »

whats a beak?

honestly, i'm not trolling..... I've heard that 'monicker' before... but not its definition.
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TNAngler

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2014, 08:41:43 AM »

Hook nose area.
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banx

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2014, 08:43:09 AM »

hahaha. alright..........  ;D
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Flytech

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2014, 09:07:25 AM »

whats a beak?

honestly, i'm not trolling..... I've heard that 'monicker' before... but not its definition.

A beak is a new, seasonal, or ignorant angler that really doesn't understand/care about the etiquette, and laws to do with fishing.

There's a great article on beaks on another forum, tells you in full detail and gives examples. It's a good chuckle, and well worth the read.

Ambassador

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2014, 10:45:24 AM »



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DanL

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2014, 11:33:08 AM »

Bunk? I see it on the Stave and Vedder rivers, I have found betties and some what shorter leaders on smaller creeks that I will not mention on here.
Agreed. Flossers have been on the Vedder and elsewhere for decades but it has really gotten prevalent in the last 5 years by my impression. It is a direct consequence of the sockeye fishery IMHO, as people bounce the Fraser in August and move right on to the Vedder in Sept/Oct though I don’t have any data to back it up other than observation.

Just like all types of fishing, there are those that BB, do it right and IMHO don't snag.  There are others that fish unethically.  Granted, for BB, the number fishing unethically is probably higher than most other methods.  I have seen unethical bar fisherman, fly fisherman, you name it, and plenty of unethical bottom bouncers.  My family and I have refused to fish with people who we consider to be fishing unethically.  Many on here like to group all BB together assuming everybody fishing like that is the worst, that we all condone everybody who bottom bounces and their methods, that we condone bottom bouncing with long leaders in any river. In my opinion, if someone goes to a smaller river and fishes using long leaders and the same method, they are idiots.

That’s sometimes true but harsh and little unfair. Many people’s first salmon experience is flossing sockeye because it gets a lot of talk and can be very productive and is relatively easily learned. It’s not unreasonable for such anglers (ie inexperienced)  to expect such methods to be perfectly acceptable to harvest salmon during any opening on any water. It’s hard to argue that too. Logically why is flossing sox on the Fraser OK but not for chum on the Vedder? Why cant any argument one can make to defend the practice on the Fraser also be made for other waters? To be fair, bottom bouncing is a legitimate technique while flossing is a subset of that, and it can take a bit of experience before the difference is evident.

Obviously one doesn’t *need* to floss on the Vedder, Stave, Chehalis etc but why is it frowned upon can be hard to understand by new anglers who haven’t yet recognized the subtleties of pursuing fish with the concept of ‘fair chase’ vs raking hooks across a fish’s (hopefully) face. Sure call me elitist but that is the crux of the debate.

I’d also point out that some other jurisdictions have recognized this as a problem and have taken steps with gear restrictions and regulations etc to try and curb flossing before it spreads even worse. If this is the course we are content to take in BC, then this is what we are going to get, a generation who don’t need to expand their toolbox of fishing techniques and taking that technique to any flow at any time and technically that’s their legal right as per the current regs. You can hardly expect otherwise; you reap what you sow.
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TNAngler

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2014, 11:59:34 AM »

That’s sometimes true but harsh and little unfair. Many people’s first salmon experience is flossing sockeye because it gets a lot of talk and can be very productive and is relatively easily learned. It’s not unreasonable for such anglers (ie inexperienced)  to expect such methods to be perfectly acceptable to harvest salmon during any opening on any water. It’s hard to argue that too. Logically why is flossing sox on the Fraser OK but not for chum on the Vedder? Why cant any argument one can make to defend the practice on the Fraser also be made for other waters? To be fair, bottom bouncing is a legitimate technique while flossing is a subset of that, and it can take a bit of experience before the difference is evident.

Obviously one doesn’t *need* to floss on the Vedder, Stave, Chehalis etc but why is it frowned upon can be hard to understand by new anglers who haven’t yet recognized the subtleties of pursuing fish with the concept of ‘fair chase’ vs raking hooks across a fish’s (hopefully) face. Sure call me elitist but that is the crux of the debate.

I’d also point out that some other jurisdictions have recognized this as a problem and have taken steps with gear restrictions and regulations etc to try and curb flossing before it spreads even worse. If this is the course we are content to take in BC, then this is what we are going to get, a generation who don’t need to expand their toolbox of fishing techniques and taking that technique to any flow at any time and technically that’s their legal right as per the current regs. You can hardly expect otherwise; you reap what you sow.

It may be harsh and I might tone it back for someone that is new but you know there are plenty of people that know they are flossing, know there are ways to get the fish to hit, and just don't care.
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SkagitDreamer

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2014, 12:01:26 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong but unless the salmon is hooked in the mouth it's classified as snagging by our synopsis, however it is accepted and tolerated for the sockeye fishery. To see it carry over to other fisheries is upsetting. I'm an elitist because I don't floss?? Lol so be it. Although it's true flyfishers were probably the first flossers. Enjoy the fishery while it exists, I say, but keep the beak attitude elsewhere.
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TNAngler

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2014, 12:10:16 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong but unless the salmon is hooked in the mouth it's classified as snagging by our synopsis, however it is accepted and tolerated for the sockeye fishery. To see it carry over to other fisheries is upsetting. I'm an elitist because I don't floss?? Lol so be it. Although it's true flyfishers were probably the first flossers. Enjoy the fishery while it exists, I say, but keep the beak attitude elsewhere.

Sockeye still have to be hooked in the mouth.  Why would you think it was any different?  People keeping fish hooked not in the mouth are poachers as they are keeping fish illegally.  It is that simple.

And my beak comment meant on the inside of the mouth, straight up into the nose.  So, unless you were directing that at flytech....
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SkagitDreamer

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2014, 12:18:34 PM »

Exactly! No it was directed at OP

Flossing doesn't hook in mouth, but outside, so according to our regs it's snagging - an apparently accepted practice.
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TNAngler

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2014, 12:50:31 PM »

Exactly! No it was directed at OP

Flossing doesn't hook in mouth, but outside, so according to our regs it's snagging - an apparently accepted practice.

First, it depends on your definition of flossing because to a number of purists on this site, how I fish is also flossing because my leader is longer than they prefer and I am casting, not bar fishing.  The fact that a great majority of my fish are hooked in the mouth doesn't phase them.

What would you rather be done?  Ok, stop all the snaggers out there.  Ideal but you need a lot more manpower than DFO or the gov't cares to spend.  I know part of it is to deter people from snagging by not letting them keep their fish but you get a bunch of flossers out there, trying their best to catch a fish that is claimed to not bite, would you rather they catch 50 or 100 sockeye in order to catch 2 that miraculously the hook ended in the mouth.  Of those 50-100, say half are caught not even near the head but near the tail or in the belly or dorsal fin and the fish is so exhausted by the time someone can get it in the chance of it surviving has gone way down, or would you rather they catch two in the side of the head and leave?
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DragonSpeed

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2014, 12:54:12 PM »

And so, round and round in circles we go...

I think we should just re-pin an old topic from 4-6 years ago, every August so that people can add the same things to it.

Again and again and again....

TNAngler

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2014, 01:11:59 PM »

Dizzy yet?
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DanL

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Re: Best snagging day ever!!!!!
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2014, 02:58:54 PM »

Correct me if I'm wrong but unless the salmon is hooked in the mouth it's classified as snagging by our synopsis

The wording that defines snagging in the BC regs is somewhat vague:

' ... hooking a fish  in any other part of its body other than the mouth."

It doesnt specifically define mouth as being inside, outside, around, etc. and it seems that fisheries officers don’t take issue with retaining fish hooked by the outside corner of the mouth or the maxillary, which suggests that either the regs never intended to require hooking inside the mouth, or the CO’s consider it ‘close enough’ to be compliant. Note how the wording requires no action on the fishes part. You actively going off and ‘hooking the fish’ is every bit as legitimate as the fishing coming over and ‘hooking itself’.

It’s interesting to look at other jurisdictions regulations as comparison.

Ie  in Oregon the snagging regulation reads :

“Taking or attempting to take a fish with a hook and line in a way or manner where the fish is not enticed to voluntarily take the hook(s) in its mouth. Gamefish which are hooked other than inside of its mouth must be released immediately unharmed.”

Interesting how specific it is with requiring the fish be an active participant in the whole thing. From what I understand, that wording in addition to gear restrictions was put in place to specifically address flossing. No idea if it’s had the desired effect (if any) though…
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