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Author Topic: 2012 floss-out  (Read 69644 times)

armytruck

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Re: 2012 floss-out
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2012, 06:45:55 PM »

Are there any bars left where one can bar fish and not be crowded out by BBers?
Hamilton bar



Yours to discover  8)
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Bently

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Re: 2012 floss-out
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2012, 08:19:15 PM »

Hey look, real fishing  :o  ;D

Looking good AT  ;) , beauty fish pard !!
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minnie-me

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Re: 2012 floss-out
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2012, 08:47:23 PM »

AT your camera date is going backwards ;)
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zabber

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Re: 2012 floss-out
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2012, 09:00:04 PM »

I also find bb'ing enjoyable. Sure, it may not be "sporting" -- if the fish don't, indeed, bite your offering -- but the COs don't ticket people for hooking fish in the face so it must be an acceptable form of angling.

Standing hip deep in rushing water, sun shining, wind blowing, comraderie, beers, hard fighting fish; good times all around. Worth the gas money, even it doesn't cover the cost of the meat (or lack thereof) ;)

Never seen any fights (verbal or fist) but then I've never fished Scale on a weekend.

Went today and got a nice red buck within an hour. Hooked inside the mouth, just like last season's. Right near the lower end of the bar where pretty much no one else was fishing. In fact, I was contemplating following the two guys that were fishing upstream from me and moving towards the boundary when: FISH ON!! Maybe 12-15lbs of chrome... Not even close to AT's in size. May post a pic later.

Gonna rig up a plunking setup next time and just chill out; hucking those betties gets tiring after a while :P

p.s. catching = hooking and landing  ;)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 09:03:20 PM by zabber »
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Dennis.t

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Re: 2012 floss-out
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2012, 09:30:34 PM »

Hamilton bar



Yours to discover  8)
Very Nice. Alot more enjoyable then Scales Bar. ;)
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Athezone

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Re: 2012 floss-out
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2012, 09:54:59 PM »

Beauty fish Armytruck, just gorgeous. I've tried fishing with a pound of weight before waiting eagerly for a bell to ring that never did. Even with my energy level I eventually would fall asleep along with most of the other fishermen or if a bell did ring we were so far away looking for agates that the fish was gone by the time we ran back, lol. I did very much enjoy the cammeraderie though, very relaxing and peaceful.

But if relaxing and peaceful along with an afternoon nap is what I'm after then I'll stay at home and save my money and time. Now if I can still have the enjoyment of people and friends and watch and see ten times the amount of springs caught and be moving and active, not bored and asleep, well, I'll take that anyday. Now you know why I bb and do not sit in a chair and wait.

Not that there's anything wrong with either, it's just a personal choice.  And did I say Great fish Armytruck, it really is. I should show you a few of mine sometime.
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zabber

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Re: 2012 floss-out
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2012, 10:11:37 PM »

more enjoyable then Scales Bar. ;)

I don't mind the crowds. Lots of new people to meet. Saw something interesting today: a native(?) family was fishing just downriver from me. The little 8 year old girl got all excited and called her father(?) over, to what I assumed was a fish. Her father stood in front of her, facing her. They kneeled down slightly, hands in the water, and scooped up a fish; his hands under the head, her's under the tail. It looked like a big rainbow (steelhead?) but was probably a sockeye in colours. They placed it back in the water very quickly and it probably swam off. The little girl giggled in delight. Never seen anything like that before, other than in that movie Without a Paddle, lol.

be moving and active, not bored and asleep, well, I'll take that anyday. Now you know why I bb and do not sit in a chair and wait.

Yep, a few hours of bb'ing is definitely a great way to burn off some energy. Any more than that and I just wanna kick back with a few cold ones and wait for a biter; reenergizing for the hike out of Scale ;)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2012, 10:14:08 PM by zabber »
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Rodney

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Re: 2012 floss-out
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2012, 10:37:58 PM »

When I go to the Vedder, I don't want to be there standing and staring at my float while waiting for a salmon to peck on my roe. You gotta get there at first light to maybe get half a dozen chances. If you go during the day, forget it, maybe 1/4 dozen chances. I am there to catch fish, not to be bored and half asleep because of getting up at 4am for those "legit" bites. That's why I will always BB or have my float depth just a bit longer so it will bounce on the bottom, which yields ten times more hook-ups than fishing with roe or spoons so I don't have to waste more hours to reach my limits. The best place to do this is either at the Tamahi rapids, train bridge or Keith Wilson Bridge, where we stand side by side and enjoy the camaraderie of harvesting salmon.

In the winter months when steelhead fishing, the water clarity can be just awful at times, like the Fraser River in July and August. This is when bait or lure fishing definitely become irrelevant because these steelhead simply cannot see whatever you are throwing at them, just like sockeye salmon as they travel through the muddy Fraser. The only way to ensure that your day is successful is by employing the same method as what you would do to target chinook and sockeye salmon in the Fraser. This is especially true if the water is high, because float fishing is basically impossible under this condition. The only way to fish is to bring out the trusty old betty and bounce in that turbulent water. I am there to retain my hatchery fish, so who are you to tell me how the fish is hooked in the mouth? If it is wild, I will release it and if it is hatchery, it goes home with me.

And don't you dare tell me how it is wrong. It is legal and I am targeting fish that I can keep. I enjoy fishing in this manner with the crowd where everyone's on the same page.

Athezone

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Re: 2012 floss-out
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2012, 10:52:56 PM »

When I go to the Vedder, I don't want to be there standing and staring at my float while waiting for a salmon to peck on my roe. You gotta get there at first light to maybe get half a dozen chances. If you go during the day, forget it, maybe 1/4 dozen chances. I am there to catch fish, not to be bored and half asleep because of getting up at 4am for those "legit" bites. That's why I will always BB or have my float depth just a bit longer so it will bounce on the bottom, which yields ten times more hook-ups than fishing with roe or spoons so I don't have to waste more hours to reach my limits. The best place to do this is either at the Tamahi rapids, train bridge or Keith Wilson Bridge, where we stand side by side and enjoy the camaraderie of harvesting salmon.

In the winter months when steelhead fishing, the water clarity can be just awful at times, like the Fraser River in July and August. This is when bait or lure fishing definitely become irrelevant because these steelhead simply cannot see whatever you are throwing at them, just like sockeye salmon as they travel through the muddy Fraser. The only way to ensure that your day is successful is by employing the same method as what you would do to target chinook and sockeye salmon in the Fraser. This is especially true if the water is high, because float fishing is basically impossible under this condition. The only way to fish is to bring out the trusty old betty and bounce in that turbulent water. I am there to retain my hatchery fish, so who are you to tell me how the fish is hooked in the mouth? If it is wild, I will release it and if it is hatchery, it goes home with me.

And don't you dare tell me how it is wrong. It is legal and I am targeting fish that I can keep. I enjoy fishing in this manner with the crowd where everyone's on the same page.

Thanks for the overview Rod, nothing we didn't already know. Nothing going on here folks, move along, move along.
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anorden

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Re: 2012 floss-out
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2012, 11:06:44 PM »

Lo! Fresh NERKA on the Steveston Wharf this weekend.  $20-40 a fish!

Nerkas are even cheaper on Craigslist, and they will deliver too. some of the adverts look a bit suspicious though... "caught fresh today, $15" - I thought the only commercial openings were on the west coast of the island, that guy must have really hightailed it to get all the way from the island and put an ad on craigslist all before lunchtime.
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Rodney

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Re: 2012 floss-out
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2012, 12:10:43 AM »

nothing we didn't already know.

Really Al? If there's nothing we didn't know already, you wouldn't have written such lengthy posts in this thread. ;)

The last post was just a fun jab of course, but just out of curiosity, would you be ok with those logics and why or why not?

I don't really care whether people go out to the battlefield, ahem, Scale Bar, and attempt to harvest their salmon with a long leader for those who don't already know (note, don't care and don't approve, two different things ;) ). It's perfectly legal and will remain so because Fisheries and Oceans Canada manages resource by numbers, not by which legal manners they are caught with or the quality of angling. Trying to suggest that it is wrong is a waste of breath and I can invest that time more constructively.

The problem with these casual discussions (I say casual because at the end of the day, these would only be filed in the internet archive and have no use when it comes to dealing with the issue at the management level), is that people look at it from the personal level.

"I enjoy it", "I keep my two socks and quit", "I only do this on the Fraser and will never do this in other streams".

Maybe so, majority of the participants in these discussions know exactly what to or not to do, but a good percentage of the participants in this fishery do not.

What you fail to see is the collective impact on the usage of resource and angling quality in this province. The industry promotes this as a family-oriented fishery and welcomes beginners to have their first taste of salmon fishing. For many, this becomes the only way which they know how to "angle" for salmon and they take it to other fisheries. For some, they'll slowly learn other legal and more preferred ways of catching salmon. Also for some, the stubborn some, they'll insist to keep catching salmon in stream with perfect conditions by the same method they would use in the Fraser River.

Is this a problem for streams such as the Chilliwack River? That depends on what you see as a problem. Is it a problem for fishery management? Probably not. They are, after all, only harvesting what they are legally allowed to keep by flossing. Is it a problem for those who know how salmon should be caught in small streams and rate angling quality other than by quantity of catches? I'd like to think so.

The attitude in my previous post is exactly how many so-called fishermen now think after participating in the Fraser River salmon fishery. This year's July fishery in the Chilliwack River is a pretty good example. The Fraser River has been too high for fishing and the slot limit discouraged people from going. They went to the Chilliwack River instead, where water level has also been pretty high. How did they catch their salmon effectively? Take a wild guess. It also wouldn't surprise me to see this Thanksgiving Weekend in the Vedder Canal similar to Peg Leg or Scale Bar in the summer again.

Your problem is not worrying about flossing being banned in the Fraser River. Like I said, it won't happen. You don't have to keep justifying your participation in this fishery and how great it is. As long as escapement requirement is met, recreational sector will get to enjoy catching sockeye salmon once First Nations reach their harvest quotas.

Your problem (or at least I'd hope that you think it is a problem) is how are you going to make sure those who floss salmon in the Fraser River will not floss in streams such as the Chilliwack, Stave, Chehalis, Capilano River?

I'm not looking for answers like, "I always try to tell people not to do it." because that method lacks momentum and will not solve the problem at this rate. I'm also not looking for you to tell me, "Why don't you do something about it with your website?" Well, I am, but I have also not been part of the cause of this problem, so ya, you deal with it. ;)

Finally, when I say "you" in the past few paragraphs, I don't mean Athezone. It is directed at those who are so passionate for the survival of this annual tradition.

Bently

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Re: 2012 floss-out
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2012, 12:46:10 AM »



Your problem (or at least I'd hope that you think it is a problem) is how are you going to make sure those who floss salmon in the Fraser River will not floss in streams such as the Chilliwack, Stave, Chehalis, Capilano River?



Maybe a video {bilingual maybe ?} on this would help, that way whatever type of "angling" you/nina/whoever do in the said video would solely be towards forwarding knowledge in relation to this discussion to the general public that likes to partake in catching salmon/steelhead.  ;)

p.s. I read the website sentence but I mean you've made a video on just about everything else so.... Go Rodney Go !!! ;D
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Athezone

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Re: 2012 floss-out
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2012, 12:53:40 AM »

Really Al? If there's nothing we didn't know already, you wouldn't have written such lengthy posts in this thread. ;)

The last post was just a fun jab of course, but just out of curiosity, would you be ok with those logics and why or why not?

I don't really care whether people go out to the battlefield, ahem, Scale Bar, and attempt to harvest their salmon with a long leader for those who don't already know (note, don't care and don't approve, two different things ;) ). It's perfectly legal and will remain so because Fisheries and Oceans Canada manages resource by numbers, not by which legal manners they are caught with or the quality of angling. Trying to suggest that it is wrong is a waste of breath and I can invest that time more constructively.

The problem with these casual discussions (I say casual because at the end of the day, these would only be filed in the internet archive and have no use when it comes to dealing with the issue at the management level), is that people look at it from the personal level.

"I enjoy it", "I keep my two socks and quit", "I only do this on the Fraser and will never do this in other streams".

Maybe so, majority of the participants in these discussions know exactly what to or not to do, but a good percentage of the participants in this fishery do not.

What you fail to see is the collective impact on the usage of resource and angling quality in this province. The industry promotes this as a family-oriented fishery and welcomes beginners to have their first taste of salmon fishing. For many, this becomes the only way which they know how to "angle" for salmon and they take it to other fisheries. For some, they'll slowly learn other legal and more preferred ways of catching salmon. Also for some, the stubborn some, they'll insist to keep catching salmon in stream with perfect conditions by the same method they would use in the Fraser River.

Is this a problem for streams such as the Chilliwack River? That depends on what you see as a problem. Is it a problem for fishery management? Probably not. They are, after all, only harvesting what they are legally allowed to keep by flossing. Is it a problem for those who know how salmon should be caught in small streams and rate angling quality other than by quantity of catches? I'd like to think so.

The attitude in my previous post is exactly how many so-called fishermen now think after participating in the Fraser River salmon fishery. This year's July fishery in the Chilliwack River is a pretty good example. The Fraser River has been too high for fishing and the slot limit discouraged people from going. They went to the Chilliwack River instead, where water level has also been pretty high. How did they catch their salmon effectively? Take a wild guess. It also wouldn't surprise me to see this Thanksgiving Weekend in the Vedder Canal similar to Peg Leg or Scale Bar in the summer again.

Your problem is not worrying about flossing being banned in the Fraser River. Like I said, it won't happen. You don't have to keep justifying your participation in this fishery and how great it is. As long as escapement requirement is met, recreational sector will get to enjoy catching sockeye salmon once First Nations reach their harvest quotas.

Your problem (or at least I'd hope that you think it is a problem) is how are you going to make sure those who floss salmon in the Fraser River will not floss in streams such as the Chilliwack, Stave, Chehalis, Capilano River?

I'm not looking for answers like, "I always try to tell people not to do it." because that method lacks momentum and will not solve the problem at this rate. I'm also not looking for you to tell me, "Why don't you do something about it with your website?" Well, I am, but I have also not been part of the cause of this problem, so ya, you deal with it. ;)

Finally, when I say "you" in the past few paragraphs, I don't mean Athezone. It is directed at those who are so passionate for the survival of this annual tradition.

I know that this is not directed at me persay but at the collective group and I wish I had an answer for you Rod but I don't. The spring salmon opening years back brought on by the Otway group and their in the DFO's face, show of force has exceedingly spiralled out of control. It has spread to other rivers that hadn't seen it before and I feel the only way to eradicate it is to ban it entirely, and I would be fine with that.

But there is more to this than the few printings of words on an internet site that keeps this alive. There is to much money being made by stores selling bouncing bettie's and the general climate of people wanting to fish this way that keeps it open and alive. You can say, "Well you should'nt extoll it virtues and make it seem okay on my site because it only brings more people into it, and you'd be right." But by the same token if you don't want to hear or read the truth on a discussion board then perhaps you should shut the site down because then all you'd have is one sided bias.

I would love to say more Rod but it's late and I have to be up at 6 so I shall be happy to continue this tomorrow after I finish work. Wishing you the Best, nite.

  
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Rodney

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Re: 2012 floss-out
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2012, 01:27:28 AM »

I think a couple of points in my last post was misunderstood a bit. I'm not suggesting that an end to "promotion" of Fraser River salmon flossing in this forum will kill the fishery. You and I both agree that's far from the case (many will strongly disagree however, because according to them the power of FWR is the root of this evil ;) ). I was just suggesting that it's silly to keep explaining why those who floss for salmon in the Fraser do it. If you've noticed, our resident vocal opponent Chris hasn't bothered persuading people to stop doing it for a couple of years now (beside the few pokes at times in his reports ;) ). These discussions on whether flossing is legal or illegal is pretty pointless because at the end of the day, you simply have to agree to disagree. The fishery is designated legal and if those want to take it to other rivers, it's also legal. You're free to floss in the Vedder too if you wish so what I want to know from you all is:

How do you allow the Fraser River flossery without affecting the angling quality of other tributaries by keeping the technique away even though by definition it is legal to use in all waters?

Also, quite often some suggest the discussion forum is bias, that was suggested a couple of times in the past day (from either side of the issues). This is far from the case. If it was, these threads wouldn't keep popping up every year. ;)

Athezone

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Re: 2012 floss-out
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2012, 07:15:17 AM »

I think a couple of points in my last post was misunderstood a bit. I'm not suggesting that an end to "promotion" of Fraser River salmon flossing in this forum will kill the fishery. You and I both agree that's far from the case (many will strongly disagree however, because according to them the power of FWR is the root of this evil ;) ). I was just suggesting that it's silly to keep explaining why those who floss for salmon in the Fraser do it. If you've noticed, our resident vocal opponent Chris hasn't bothered persuading people to stop doing it for a couple of years now (beside the few pokes at times in his reports ;) ). These discussions on whether flossing is legal or illegal is pretty pointless because at the end of the day, you simply have to agree to disagree. The fishery is designated legal and if those want to take it to other rivers, it's also legal. You're free to floss in the Vedder too if you wish so what I want to know from you all is:

How do you allow the Fraser River flossery without affecting the angling quality of other tributaries by keeping the technique away even though by definition it is legal to use in all waters?

Also, quite often some suggest the discussion forum is bias, that was suggested a couple of times in the past day (from either side of the issues). This is far from the case. If it was, these threads wouldn't keep popping up every year. ;)

Morning All, I can't type or say much as work is awaiting my presence but I would like to say that Rodney makes some very, very good points. The one point about whether flossing is legal or not is pointless to talk about because we all know that it's legal and allowed, how to stop it's spread is the million dollar question. And without giving my answer now I shall take the day and think of my response and answer tonite.

And certainly anyone with an ounce of sense would realize that the power of FWR is not the root of this evil, in fact FWR is one of if not the best fishing sites on the internet in my opinion. I would just like to say though Rodney that it does exhibit a certain bias when the topic is moved and the title changed from Scale Bar Zoo to 2012 Floss Out. Moving it was fine but the title change clearly shows your disdain.

Must go fellow fishermen as we all become fellow worker bee's once the clock hits 8 AM. Stay Happy Everyone !!!!
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