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[rides bike to work]

 I have notice a ever increasing pressure on the vedder river over the past 3-4 years not just salmon but steelhead season is going the same direction.The increasing pressure on this river is eventually going to have an real impact.I know hatchery fish are produced to catch but the catching and releasing of hundreds of wild steal head is eventually going to have an impact.I read and old artical that lends the theory that the meat fisher who catches his one steal for the day and goes home has less impact on the resource than the c&r fisher who catches five fish in a day  continuing to fish.For the sake of conservation why doesn't the vedder have a bait ban like many of the vancouver island rivers.The science is proven why dont we take lessons from our neighbors before it becomes a problem here?

[kingpin]

sigh......why would you want to target bait fisherman who are catching fish legit instead of snaggers who are doing more damage?
its a hatchery river, you acknowledged as much....lets start by putting in a rule requiring all wild steelhead be kept in the water...that would do FAR more good than a bait ban.

[the carp]

rides bike, sorry but I agree with kingpin, i have never seen a study on c&r that proved bait fishing had a higher mortality rate than an artificial bait fishery, and i do think a lot of rivers with bait bans are systems which have runs of summer run steelhead which seem to be still actively feeding. Personally in my many years on the river i can count the number of bleeders I have had on one hand.

[rides bike to work]

The studies  prove bait bans help with conservation of a species there is obvious science other wise there wouldn't be laws like on the island.I worry about increased pressure and if the wild stocks can handle this increased I dont think snagging is a problem when it comes to our steel head fishery and I am not attacking bait fishermen I have just witness the success of bait bans on rivers such as the stamp and sanjuan and think we should follow suit .

[skaha]

The studies  prove bait bans help with conservation of a species there is obvious science other wise there wouldn't be laws like on the island.I worry about increased pressure and if the wild stocks can handle this increased I dont think snagging is a problem when it comes to our steel head fishery and I am not attacking bait fishermen I have just witness the success of bait bans on rivers such as the stamp and sanjuan and think we should follow suit .

-- I think the science has more to do with the experience of the fisher..
--A bait fisher that is attending the rod will not necessarily deep hook. also circle hook with little or no siwash should reduce deep hook.
--Generally the feeling was that bait fishers were some kind of barbaric meat fisher with no regard for the resource. On the other hand we have the bait ban snaggers. Each method have their problem fishers.
--I fish a variety of methods.. bait to pure dry fly.. If problems arise I switch.  hook size, style or presentation all affect how the fish are hooked.
--I had more than  a few arm wrestling matches with the dry fly fishers that announced they had 50 + realease days which unless catching bass probably resulted in a few dead fish. Lets work on enhancing more areas for legit fishers to fish rather than increase regulation which will only be enforced on those that already care about the resource.

[superstick]

rides bike to work  over 600,000 steelhead up the columbia river this year no bait ban thats successful .the last 10 years with a bait ban on the stamp have all been going down hill .the same goes for all other bait ban rivers that I have fished.the vedder how ever seems to be having better success on most years

[kingpin]

The studies  prove bait bans help with conservation of a species there is obvious science other wise there wouldn't be laws like on the island.I worry about increased pressure and if the wild stocks can handle this increased I dont think snagging is a problem when it comes to our steel head fishery and I am not attacking bait fishermen I have just witness the success of bait bans on rivers such as the stamp and sanjuan and think we should follow suit .

you dont think snagging is a problem in steelhead season? go to limit hole when they stack up there....canal, lickman etc... when the water is low and fish congregate the snaggers come out and its sickening.

[jeff]

I used to think that snagging or flossing didnt happen during steely season because I thought that the guys that were out were fishing for the right reasons. My view on that changed a few years ago when I saw it first hand at the cement slab, and man was I disappointed.

[RVT]

A bait ban won't solve anything. Too many people are bringing their Fraser River techniques to the smaller rivers. 8 foot "leaders" with a corky and a 3/0 hook  meets the criteria of a bait ban.  The smaller river systems, with smaller numbers of fish can't handle these methods.  These people read about the fishing opportunities on the net and decide to use Fraser river methods on the smaller systems, what the hell, it caught tons of sockeye and springs in the past,(when was the last sockeye opening, and how was YOUR spring season).  Education is the key,  and the meat hunters have to be kept off the rivers.

[Birdsnest]

Okay.. everyone says,  a bait ban is not necessary, the big problem is snaggers.. etc.. mortality no different.. studies.. etc..

So... I'll ask..

Why do you fish bait?  Because you catch more fish? 

And what if we look and find mortality studies that show natural bait does increase mortality.  What then? Will you support a bait ban?

[lapetitebuse]

I think the regulation says that once you killed a steelhead, you have to stop fishing.
Is it true?

[chris gadsden]

rides bike, sorry but I agree with kingpin, i have never seen a study on c&r that proved bait fishing had a higher mortality rate than an artificial bait fishery, and i do think a lot of rivers with bait bans are systems which have runs of summer run steelhead which seem to be still actively feeding. Personally in my many years on the river i can count the number of bleeders I have had on one hand.

Yes and I have had very few bleeders as well after 30 years of fishing bait on the Vedder and other river systems. Also I have seen only the odd dead steelhead over that period of time. As I have posted before when I participated in the 2 year radio telemetry steelhead study on the Chilliwack Vedder River a very high percentage of fish that were tagged, spawned, kelted and left the system successfully except of course the hatchery fish that were again caught and retained.

In my mind the survival of not only our steelhead but all our salmon species have been for many years and unfortunately are still being threatened by a lot of other factors far more serious than a bait ban would accomplish, many of us know what they are.

[chris gadsden]

I think the regulation says that once you killed a steelhead, you have to stop fishing.
Is it true?

If you are talking about the Chillwack Vedder yes you have to stop fishing that system.

[the carp]

If the vedder ran clear as it used to do i would not fish as much bait as i do now, in the clay water a little smellavision is required at least in my book, otherwise cambell river special and pink worms are my choice.

[buck]

 Prior to the hatchery coming on line there was a bait ban for steelhead on the Chilliwack River . After the hatchery started to produce hatchery fish the bait ban was lifted. The reason for lifting the ban was to remove as many hatchery fish as possible from the system. F&W did not want hatchery fish to spawn with wild fish.
Chris, after collecting brood stock for 28 years ( 1900 + fish )  we have lost only a small number , less than ten that I would attribute to hooking mortality. We have lost a few fish after holding them for 2 or 3 months but those deaths would be caused by stress / disease problems.