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Author Topic: "There are safer places to get gravel"  (Read 123065 times)

troutbreath

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #135 on: April 16, 2008, 10:13:37 PM »

I think the replacement guy you have to deal with might be a closet horse beater ;D Don't bring a knife to a gun fight, bring your riding crop.
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chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #136 on: April 21, 2008, 06:37:07 PM »


To hear an interview Dr. Roseanu did today please go to the link below. It is on episode #4. I believe it gives a very good insight on what went on at Spring Bar this year. It is about 20 minuets long.




                www.letsgooutdoorsradio.com

chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #137 on: April 24, 2008, 10:13:22 PM »

Scare tactics’ used to approve gravel mining, say critics
By Robert Freeman - Chilliwack Progress - April 24, 2008    |    |      |    | 

Fraser Valley politicians are using scare tactics to open the door to an unprecedented “gravel grab” in the Fraser River under the guise of flood protection, says Dr. Marvin Rosenau.

And the Fraser Valley Salmon Society, along with the BC Wildlife Federation, the David Suzuki Foundation and other environmental groups, is calling for an open forum so the public can hear both sides of the issue.

FVSS president Frank Kwak said it’s hoped a forum will arouse a public outcry similar to the one that caused Environment Minister Barry Penner to back off approving a run-of-the-river project on the Pitt River earlier this month.

“We think we have good evidence that flood protection is not involved here,” Kwak said. “But where it is, we want to support it.”

Rosenau, a former provincial fisheries biologist, cited studies done by UBC and SFU river engineers that suggest gravel removal won’t significantly reduce flood risks in the Fraser River reach between Hope and Mission.

“A lot of fish habitat is being destroyed,” he said, without a clear-cut reduction in flood risk.

The nearly 400,000 cubic metres of gravel removed recently from Spring Bar will drop the river level by, at most, six inches, he said, contrary to statements made by Chilliwack MLAs John Les and Barry Penner.

“This is a political agenda to provide local aggregate companies with gravel,” Rosenau said, to supply the Lower Mainland’s “overheated” development market.

Les agreed in an earlier interview that one removal would not lead to a significant reduction in the river level, but a long-term program would.

But Rosenau said studies show that even removing 4.2 million cubic metres of gravel would result in an overall reduction of less than four inches.

“The river’s not rapidly filling up with gravel” as claimed, he said, because the reach is “so wide, the input in gravel deposits is pretty trivial.”

The B.C. government waived the royalty fees normally charged contractors, and provided $564,000 to the Seabird Island First Nation, the only bidder on the project, to build a bridge to the removal site on Spring Bar.

The use of public money, without any funds collected through royalty fees for mitigation of lost fish habitat, angered society member Nick Basock.

“I don’t know how people can sit around and take that,” he said.

River guide and entrepreneur Dean Werk commended the efforts of the society to keep the gravel removal issue before the public and to reign in the politicians.

“This is a disgrace to us and to all the general public of the Lower Mainland,” he said. “I really hope we can get a public forum ... so they all can understand what’s going on.”

Past FVSS president Sandy Ritchie said gravel has been taken out of the river since 1880.

“I would like to see a public forum,” he said, but pointed out that Chilliwack was “built from river gravel and most of the dikes were built with river gravel.”

“This Spring Bar thing ain’t anything new,” he said.

However, Kwak said if the FVSS had not pushed for changes to the bridge at Spring Bar this year “we would have had dewatering in the same fashion as 2006.”

Millions of pink salmon eggs were lost at Big Bar that year when a causeway was built instead of a bridge to give trucks access to the site. The causeway blocked the river water flowing over the nesting sites.

Kwak and Rosenau also said federal fisheries did not do the required assessment of the impact of the gravel removal at Spring Bar, despite the department’s own report following the Big Bar incident.

Rosenau said 10 hectares of prime juvenile Chinook rearing habitat was destroyed by the Spring Bar removal, as well as other species known to use the habitat for rearing, including stream-rearing sockeye.

rfreeman@theprogress.com

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chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #138 on: May 08, 2008, 03:46:33 PM »


I see by today's letter to the Chilliwack Progress by the new Provincial Solicitor General John van Dongen has not been properly briefed by his staff or the former minister. I will be trying to arrange a meeting so we can get him properly briefed.


Public safety and the environment are linked, says minister
May 07, 2008
I am writing in response to your April 24 article which claims that “scare tactics” are being used in an “unprecedented gravel grab” on the Fraser River.  

The provincial government continues to work with local partners including municipal governments, First Nations and local businesses on gravel projects across the province.  Our sole purpose is to reduce the flood threat to protect public safety.  We will continue to work in an open and transparent way with every effort being made to provide the public with the facts of gravel removal.

The fact is, year after year hundreds of thousands of cubic metres of gravel wash down the Fraser River and are deposited in the stretch from Hope to Mission.  In some areas entire islands nearly half the size of Stanley Park have formed.  As this gravel builds up, the river rises with it.  This causes erosion along the dikes and creates localized flooding issues, all of which put public safety at risk.  Gravel removal along with other flood protection measures such as armouring river banks and good dike maintenance, is a safe and effective way to reduce this risk and protect the thousands of residents in the Fraser Valley. 

We are also mindful of the need to protect the environment.  That’s why extensive studies and surveys of each area are conducted by independent scientists prior to, during and post gravel removal.  This year alone, the province has spent more than $210,000 for biological and hydraulic surveys and studies at the Spring Bar and Hamilton Bar gravel removal sites.  This included having an independent environmental consultant on-site throughout these projects to ensure environmental protection measures were in place. This independent monitor had full authority to stop work at these sites if any environmental concerns arose. 

Protecting the environment and the public are not separate agendas.  Each is intrinsically linked to the other.  That’s why we are moving forward with gravel removal in an environmentally sound and sustainable manner.

troutbreath

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #139 on: May 08, 2008, 10:59:28 PM »

They spent $210,000 on surveys to help justify and remove gravel. Not to protect fish habitat.

"This independent monitor had full authority to stop work at these sites if any environmental concerns arose."
and lose their job if they either close it down for environmental concerns or suggested it wouldn't stop flooding.

I guess theres always a few people who will take the cheque, no matter what.
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chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #140 on: May 09, 2008, 12:20:15 AM »

They spent $210,000 on surveys to help justify and remove gravel. Not to protect fish habitat.

"This independent monitor had full authority to stop work at these sites if any environmental concerns arose."
and lose their job if they either close it down for environmental concerns or suggested it wouldn't stop flooding.

I guess theres always a few people who will take the cheque, no matter what.
You have it correct and last year a MOE member was removed from the gravel committee and transferred to another job. A few years ago for the same reason another person had the same thing happen to him. In both cases they were saying things the people that wanted to get at the gravel did not want to hear.

We have being trying to get information on what studies were supposed to be done and it has been nearly impossible and it has now come to filing through the Freedom of Information Act to try and get them but I imagine we will find they were not done properly.

They say they have been transparent on this file but we have not found that to be true so far. Fisheries and Oceans are to blame as well as they have let this go on, destroying fish habitat in the process. I am thankful there is many groups working to stop this or we would have more massive fish kills like happened on Big Bar in 2006, they know we are watching. In this instance they had monitors like they said they had this year but it was the concerned people that eventually got it shutdown not the monitors who just sat and watched it happen.

To me it is similar to the way they are handling the Fish Farm issue. It is very disappointing to me as I supported and worked for this present government as a volunteer for a number of years. ::) :o :( >:(
« Last Edit: May 09, 2008, 12:22:45 AM by chris gadsden »
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chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #141 on: May 26, 2008, 10:47:06 PM »

 The Ad hoc committee met again this weekend and are working on getting meetings with Provincial politicians in the Environment and Solicitor General Ministries. The Provincial Government has not handled this issue very well. They try to hid and hope we will go away, disappointing as we all should be doing all we can to protect our fish stocks and their environment.

Also they sending a letter to the Federal Auditor General to look into this issue. As well filing through Freedom of Information to try to obtain information on this file as has been impossible to get information on studies that were supposed to be done pre and post extraction. Most likely they were not done, that is why we can not get them.

Public meeting in the Fall to present our case to the general public and finally trying to get a round table discussion with all government agencies.

tyee1on

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #142 on: May 27, 2008, 04:25:48 PM »

it's all about the money not the fish and not the fisherman they would like to see us all  go away .can't they see that it's not going to happen
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bentrod

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #143 on: May 27, 2008, 05:30:14 PM »

May sound like a dumb question, but are you allowed to sue the government in Canada like you are in the US? 
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chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #144 on: May 27, 2008, 06:28:56 PM »

May sound like a dumb question, but are you allowed to sue the government in Canada like you are in the US? 
We have a couple of lawyers look into doing this but they have initially said it would be difficult to get a charge.

chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #145 on: June 12, 2008, 07:02:20 AM »

Petitioners want Fraser River mining investigated
B.C. environmentalists fear salmon population will die if gravel is removed
MARK HUME

From Thursday's Globe and Mail


June 12, 2008 at 5:31 AM EDT

VANCOUVER — The Auditor-General of Canada has been asked to investigate a gravel-mining operation on the Fraser River that was approved this year by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans despite concerns it would destroy salmon habitat.

A petition filed by several British Columbia organizations and prominent individuals to Auditor-General Sheila Fraser says removal of 400,000 cubic metres of gravel from Spring Bar, near Agassiz, "will disrupt the river ecosystem and negatively affect fish and fish habitat."

The petitioners include David Suzuki, the internationally known writer, broadcaster and founder of the David Suzuki Foundation; Daniel Pauly, a fisheries scientist at the University of B.C.; Mark Angelo, a conservationist, teacher, writer and chairman of the B.C. Heritage Rivers Program; and Vicky Husband, one of the province's leading environmental advocates.

The B.C. Wildlife Federation, Fraser Valley Angling Guides Association and the Sportfishing Defence Alliance are among the groups that endorsed the petition, which asks for a review of the Fisheries Act authorizations that allowed the mine to proceed in February.

The operation is supported by the B.C. government, which provided $564,000 from the provincial flood mitigation budget to build a temporary access bridge to Spring Bar.

The mine is being operated by the Seabird Island Indian Band, which is selling the highly valued gravel to the construction industry for an undisclosed amount.

The petition alleges that, contrary to statements by DFO and provincial officials, the removal of gravel will not reduce the flood threat on the Fraser and will cause extensive damage to salmon habitat.

"We believe that the DFO has been deliberately obstructionist in regards to the transparency of its decisions ... and has failed to meet the intent of Canadian fisheries and environmental law in respect to Fraser River gravel removal," Frank Kwak, acting chairman of the Fraser River Ad Hoc Stewardship Gravel Removal Committee, said in a letter to Ms. Fraser that accompanied the petition.

Mr. Kwak said salmon stocks have fallen to dangerously low levels on the West Coast, and one reason is the failure of government to protect fish habitat.

He said that "DFO's outright refusal to meet the intent of its statutory obligations ... is a key example as to why there is little chance for salmon in Canada to survive into the next century in any meaningful way."

When the mine was approved, officials said the project would be carried out "in a way that minimizes the potential harm to fish habitat and fish stocks in the river."

But the petitioners say that has not been done and that "over time [the mine] will partially or completely dewater a major pink salmon spawning habitat (the right channel at Spring Bar) equivalent to the capacity for several hundred thousand reproducing fish."

The letter to Ms. Fraser states that DFO has approved "unmitigated and uncompensated destruction of fish habitat via large-scale gravel removal from the lower Fraser River for reasons that are largely unsubstantiated (i.e., the removal of this gravel largely does not provide significant benefits to flood protection or erosion)."

Although the Fraser routinely approaches flood conditions, digging down the river bed by removing gravel bars may not alleviate that threat, said Michael Church, a professor emeritus in the department of geography at UBC, because the river's flow can simply shift.

Prof. Church has done research that shows about 200,000 to 300,000 cubic metres of gravel washes into the lower river each year. The Spring Bar operation is removing more gravel from one place in a river than has yet been done in Western Canada.


chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #146 on: June 12, 2008, 08:44:22 PM »

Auditor asked to check gravel claims
By Robert Freeman - Chilliwack Progress - June 11, 2008

Up to 400,000 cubic metres of gravel was removed at Spring Bar near Seabird Island – the largest gravel removal operation in the Fraser river ever. Black Press File

An ad hoc coalition of B.C. environmental groups is asking the federal auditor-general to look into government flood-proofing claims to justify its approval of gravel mining in the Fraser River.

“The hope is the auditor-general will look at it and agree with us and there will be mitigation for ... loss of fish habitat or compensation for the damages done,” Frank Kwak, president of the Fraser Salmon Society, told The Progress. “We can’t just keep taking gravel out of this river unless there’s concrete proof there’s going to be flooding (if gravel is not removed).”

The petition follows the largest gravel removal operation in the river ever approved by federal fisheries, up to 400,000 cubic metres at Spring Bar near Seabird Island.

The 10-hectare site is considered “exceptional” rearing habitat by many for juvenile sockeye and chinook salmon, as well as habitat for other species protected by federal legislation, according to the petition sent to Auditor-General Sheila Fraser by the Fraser River Ad Hoc Stewardship Gravel Removal Committee.

The committee includes the B.C. Wildlife Federation, Fraser Valley Salmon Society, Sportfishing Defence Alliance, Fraser Valley Angling Guides Association, Chilliwack/Vedder River Cleanup Coalition and the Alouette River Management Society.

“Gravel removal at Spring Bar extensively damaged fish habitat with little or no gain to flood protection and erosion,” the committee charges in the petition.

“It is ... likely that this removal, over time, will partially or completely de-water a major pink salmon spawning habitat equivalent to the capacity for several hundred thousand reproducing fish.”

After an estimated 2.2 million pink salmon hatchlings were lost in a “de-watering” event at a gravel removal operation at Big Bar in March, 2006, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans issued a report with 10 recommendations, including the immediate creation of a multi-agency technical committee to jointly review future gravel extraction projects before approvals are made.

However, the committee believes technical advice has been ignored and most of the recent approvals to remove gravel “are the result of political pressure on the DFO to provide aggregate for the construction industry and have very little to do with flood or erosion control.”

“It is our opinion that the senior governments (provincial and federal) are using a climate of fear of flooding to justify gravel removal for the development industry in the local geographic area,” the committee says in the petition.

The DFO is “capitulating to local demands” for gravel removal, the petition continues, “at the expense of habitat and without due consideration to the appropriate habitat science and flood-prevention engineering, or the appropriate environmental legislation or policies.”

“We believe that the DFO has been deliberately obstructionist in regards to the transparency of its decisions,” the petition concludes, “has knowingly refused to require of proponents adequate information and assessment and mitigation and compensation for damage done, and has failed to meet the intent of Canadian fisheries and environmental law in respect to Fraser River gravel removal.”

The petition asked the Auditor-General to consider ten key questions including:

- Why the Spring Bar removal was approved when engineering and river studies “specifically” recommended against it due to the lack of flood or erosion benefits or benefits;

- Why the DFO ignored requirements under the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act to engage in full public consultations when it was “absolutely clear” that stewardship groups were “highly concerned” about the potential damage;

- Why the DFO held off authorization until several days before contractors arrived on site when a prior agreement states all approvals must be completed by Nov. 1 of the preceding year.

“The result of this last-minute authorization is that DFO ensured that the stewardship groups had no opportunity for review of this project, and were completely caught off-guard in respect to being able to provide adequate public comment prior to its commencement,” the committee charges.

rfreeman@theprogress.com

bentrod

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #147 on: June 12, 2008, 09:05:23 PM »

Looking back at earlier threads, I think many of us can say a big fat "I told you so".  Lack of silt fence, Hi vis fence, clean machinery, fueling stations, driving pile without curtains while elevin were in the gravel, and other basic best management practices are proof that the govt. can give a rat's @$$ about protecting the environment.  Not only should someone loose their job over this, someone should go to jail. 

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chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #148 on: June 13, 2008, 09:20:21 AM »

Today's Chilliwack Progress.

I certainly respect Mr Kotyk's opinion and it is good news to see the excellent migration of this years pinks.  It should provide some excellent returns in two years. However there is so so so much more to this file that will be brought out I am sure as time passes.

Thank goodness we have watch dog groups that keep an eye on such things as past history has seen so much fish habitat destroyed over the years, I donot think anyone can dispute that.

Of course this concern on the Fraser River was strengthened because of the Big Bar incident in 2006 when millions of pink and some chum redds were destroyed as a causeway blocked a side stream of the Fraser. It is documented on other treads on this forum so I will not rehash it any further. It was not only at this site but in a couple of others I was told damage was done that year.

I sympathize with FOC officials that get caught in the political arena as it makes their job very tough to do, I appreciate many of their efforts under difficult conditions and fiscal restraints.

However if we all donot do everything we can our fish stocks and their habitat will disappear forever.

I spend many sleepless nights over these concerns but I know that I and many others are doing our best, we are only volunteers with nothing to gain other than hopefully leaving the fish for those that follow us, your families and mine. I know I repeat this time after time but it is important to me as I now have 4 grandchildren and I think I owe it to them to fight for the fish until I make that last cast and I plan to do that as uncomfortable as it gets at times.




Pink salmon not at risk from gravel mine, says fisheries official
By Robert Freeman - Chilliwack Progress - June 12, 2008   

A claim by environmental groups that a massive gravel removal operation in the Fraser River near Agassiz will have a major impact on pink salmon isn’t being borne out by the numbers, says Mel Kotyk, senior DFO official in the area.

Kotyk said yesterday he has only seen media reports of a petition sent to federal Auditor-General Sheila Fraser asking her to look into government flood-proofing claims to justify approval of the Spring Bar removal operation, despite possible damage to fish habitat.

“There’s not much I can say on the petition itself,” Kotyk said, but he objected to the groups’ claim that the removal, “over time, will partially or completely de-water a major pink salmon spawning habitat” in the area.

Kotyk said about 450 million pink salmon move down the river on average, but this year “we’ve got about 550 million.”

“We’ve got about 100 million more than average, about 25 percent more than normal,” he said. “The concern of a major impact just doesn’t bear out,” he said.

Chilliwack MLAs John Les and Barry Penner could not be reached for comment yesterday.

In the petition, the Fraser River Ad Hoc Stewardship Gravel Removal Committee charges the DFO “ignored” technical advice that gravel removal at Spring Bar earlier this year would not significantly reduce flood risks.

Up to 400,000 cubic metres of gravel was removed from the 10-hectare site near Seabird Island.

“It is our opinion that the senior governments (provincial and federal) are using a climate of fear of flooding to justify gravel removal for the development industry in the local geographic area,” the committee said in the petition.

The DFO is “capitulating to local demands” for gravel removal “at the expense of habitat and without due consideration to the appropriate habitat science and flood-prevention engineering, or the appropriate environmental legislation or policies,” the committee claimed.

Frank Kwak, acting committee chairman, said in a letter sent with the petition to Fraser that the DFO “has been deliberately obstructionist in regards to the transparency of its decisions” and “has knowingly refused to require of proponents adequate information and assessment and mitigation and compensation for damage done, and has failed to meet the intent of Canadian fisheries and environmental law in respect to Fraser River gravel removal.”

The committee includes the B.C. Wildlife Federation, Fraser Valley Salmon Society, Sportfishing Defence Alliance, Fraser Valley Angling Guides Association, Chilliwack/Vedder River Cleanup Coalition and the Alouette River Management Society.







« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 09:22:25 AM by chris gadsden »
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troutbreath

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #149 on: June 13, 2008, 09:53:17 AM »

The "senior DFO official" probably was misspelled. The meant "senile DFO official" if he really believes what he's saying. In my opinion it's the case of "I like my paycheck and will say anything to keep getting them" scenario when it comes to government spokespersons. Integrity is not part of the job description, never was. :-\
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