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Author Topic: "There are safer places to get gravel"  (Read 122837 times)

chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #255 on: November 17, 2009, 06:35:58 PM »

From Question Period today in Victoria

GRAVEL EXTRACTION
FROM FRASER RIVER

V. Huntington: Last week emergency management B.C. announced that the province will proceed with gravel extraction along unspecified portions of the lower Fraser River from January to March 2010. The province has insisted that this is all about public safety and reducing the flood risk. However, a former regional director with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans has stated that "there is a general lack of information that demonstrates that gravel removal has or will reduce flood hazard." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Similarly, the federal Environment Commissioner said in a report earlier this year that engineering and scientific studies concluded there was no reduction in the flood profile after gravel removal and that gravel removal would not significantly affect the potential for flooding. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

My question is to the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General. What scientific studies has his ministry used or conducted to justify the removal of gravel for flood protection measures? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Interjection.

Hon. B. Penner: Thank you, Hon. Member, and thank you for the intervention from the member for Delta North. The B.C. government is committed to flood protection, and certainly, given the recent weather events, the last 72 hours, we can see that our investments are paying dividends. It's important that we continue to maintain our flood protection programs in British Columbia, but we do it in a balanced way. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

In the 1990s we know that the other party did put a moratorium on gravel removal and walked away from a federal-provincial funding program for flood protection in the province. Our government ran on a commitment to restore our protection programs and to return to a well-managed, environmentally-sustainable and balanced gravel removal program in order to advance flood protection. That has been our commitment, and that has been what we've delivered. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

[End of question period.]

Eagleye

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #256 on: November 17, 2009, 09:46:03 PM »

From Question Period today in Victoria

GRAVEL EXTRACTION
FROM FRASER RIVER

V. Huntington: Last week emergency management B.C. announced that the province will proceed with gravel extraction along unspecified portions of the lower Fraser River from January to March 2010. The province has insisted that this is all about public safety and reducing the flood risk. However, a former regional director with the Department of Fisheries and Oceans has stated that "there is a general lack of information that demonstrates that gravel removal has or will reduce flood hazard." [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Similarly, the federal Environment Commissioner said in a report earlier this year that engineering and scientific studies concluded there was no reduction in the flood profile after gravel removal and that gravel removal would not significantly affect the potential for flooding. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

My question is to the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General. What scientific studies has his ministry used or conducted to justify the removal of gravel for flood protection measures? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Interjection.

Hon. B. Penner: Thank you, Hon. Member, and thank you for the intervention from the member for Delta North. The B.C. government is committed to flood protection, and certainly, given the recent weather events, the last 72 hours, we can see that our investments are paying dividends. It's important that we continue to maintain our flood protection programs in British Columbia, but we do it in a balanced way. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

In the 1990s we know that the other party did put a moratorium on gravel removal and walked away from a federal-provincial funding program for flood protection in the province. Our government ran on a commitment to restore our protection programs and to return to a well-managed, environmentally-sustainable and balanced gravel removal program in order to advance flood protection. That has been our commitment, and that has been what we've delivered. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
 
[End of question period.]



 ::) ::) ::) What about the studies?!?!! Honourable :-X B . Penner !   >:(
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skaha

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #257 on: November 23, 2009, 09:49:23 AM »



--I have included this article from Kelowna news paper... our own little gravel extraction project in the Major kokanee spawning area for Okanagan lake. For those of you who are not familiar... recreational kokanee fishing has only recently been allowed with a limited quota opening, after being shut down for over 10 years due to lack of a healthy sustaining population. 




Storm clouds gathering over the environment ministry

By Judie Steeves
Kelowna Capital News
November 20, 2009
http://www.bclocalnews.com/okanagan_similkameen/kelownacapitalnews/opinion/70602472.html

There’s a storm brewing amongst outdoors people in the province’s ‘heartlands.’

And, it’s threatening to blow the provincial government off the map.

It’s not about any one thing. Instead it’s been mounting gradually, beginning with a little tempest in one part of the province about one issue; then a squall in another corner about another issue.

However, it’s coalescing into a raging windstorm now as the various sectors begin to realize there’s hardly anyone home in the environment ministry, and those remaining have obviously been told to just shutter the windows in the event of a gale, when what’s needed is to get someone in to shore up the foundation and make some repairs to the structure.

You can only ignore environmental issues so long.

This government is focussed solely on urban environmental issues like greenhouse gases and carbon footprints and climate change.

That’s left the rural issues—like proper management of fish and wildlife resources and the habitat, the natural environment they require for life—to just hang out in the wind and get battered to bits by the blizzard and opportunistic predators.

Be warned: It takes awhile for people who are rooted to the land to get riled up about an issue, but when they do, they don’t let go of it easily, until it’s fixed.

And, right now, they’re getting riled up.

They’re incensed about the lack of consultation with them about changes to open seasons for hunting and about the apparent lack of science in some of those decisions.

They’re furious about slashed funding for monitoring the environment and about cuts in staff for enforcing legislation governing degradation of the environment.

They’re incredulous at the total lack of a voice on behalf of fish and wildlife from the environment ministry whenever referrals come from other ministries to pave over, build on or mine the natural environment.

For instance, the response from the environment ministry to the referral from the mines ministry regarding a permit for a very large gravel pit at the confluence of Pearson and Mission Creeks simply pointed out that both are fish-bearing streams and “best management practices” should be followed.

Instead, it should have said simply this would not be an appropriate place in which to mine gravel.

Naively, I have assumed that the environment ministry protects the environment from situations where there is the potential for environmental damage—particularly where it’s asked for comment about applications such as this.

However, even applications to build docks over fish spawning grounds are not simply denied at the environment ministry level, as they should be.

Data is being gathered to show how many hundreds of millions of dollars are contributed to the economy and to government coffers by anglers and hunters, and questions will be asked about why so little of that goes back into protection of the environment, instead of going into general revenue.

Those in government who might not be able to weather the storm had better take shelter elsewhere—or take steps to make some repairs.

Judie Steeves writes about outdoors issues for the Capital News.

jsteeves@kelownacapnews.com

The world is run by those who show up.

 

 

 

 
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chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #258 on: November 26, 2009, 10:41:18 PM »

Click on the link below if you are interested in reading about the just completed 5 year letter of understanding about gravel removal on the Fraser River.

They are presently working on another one for 5 or more years. :( They have an extension for this years with 3 sites being considered.

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/oceans-habitat/habitat/aboutus-apropos/partners-partenaires/fraser_e.asp

Gaffer

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #259 on: November 28, 2009, 02:47:24 PM »

Chris, it baffles me as to why this subject has gotten very little attention on the forum. I've walked the proposed sites and have seen the damage already done to some of the best fishing locations on the Fraser. Spring Bar would be a great example and so would last years kill of Pink Salmon Fry.

This issue should receive far more attention and could be the start of the end of the Fraser as we know it. Anglers and the general public should be outraged at the way the government, local media and politicians have treated the very people they hire to protect the enviroment.

I think we need to get very loud and organized on this issue.

Merry Christmas
Well RA 40 --as Chris well knows , some of us did get loud and organized in March , we called a public meeting in Chilliwack , informed the Media , Brochures in all Sportfishing outlets in the Valley ,put together a good presentation , ---- had 1 ONE politician ( from the NDP ) show up , 75 YUP SEVENTY FIVE Concerned Citizens ---NO Local Politicians (ie Les Or Penner)----- One day after the BC Prov'l Election Ottawa issued a Study Condemning the Prov'l MOE AND the DFO for allowing destruction of fish habitat with NO Scientific backup to support it and had lied about the Flood Contriol benefits to allow the Gravel Grab --- Vindicating Everything that the Committee said was true . I was at that Meeting---- Where were You ??
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chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #260 on: December 04, 2009, 10:13:32 AM »

Community Control over Gravel Mining: Please consider adding your voice to Brian Lewis' Article in today's Province, "When is an agreement not an agreement?"

Gravel News Story Link: http://www.theprovince.com/news/When+agreement+agreement/2296896/story.html

chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #261 on: December 08, 2009, 05:32:31 PM »

This story from today's Chilliwack Progress sound very similar to what we have been facing on the Fraser, they donot want to let the public to have any input, unacceptable.



Scrap FVRD gravel plan, critics say
 

Input sought on gravel pits
Text   By Robert Freeman - Chilliwack Progress


Published: December 07, 2009 4:00 PM
Updated: December 07, 2009 4:39 PM

0 Comments A proposed gravel removal plan, drafted behind closed doors, should be scrapped and the public involved in new negotiations, says a critic of the plan approved by the Fraser Valley Regional District board.

Resident Walter Neufeld said there’s no guarantee that public input can now change a memorandum of agreement designed by the B.C. government “in lockstep” with the gravel industry.

“The public was entirely excluded and their best long-term interests were not fairly represented,” he said.

But Popkum electoral area director Bill Dickey insisted that no final plan will be approved without public input.

“Certainly, we don’t think we’re going to have it enshrined in law without getting public input,” he said.

“This (MOU) is not likely to be a perfect resolution of a very difficult problem,” he said. “But what we hope is it would be a much better situation than what we’ve had to deal with in the past.”

He said the FVRD currently has “almost no input” into the location of gravel pits, and that has led to the large number of land-use complaints and lawsuits by residents living near gravel operations.

He said the idea behind the negotiations was always to reach a “workable” agreement on a “very complicated” problem, and then take it to the public.

The MOU, reached after five years of negotiations with FVRD staff and elected officials, B.C. mines ministry and gravel industry representatives, was supported by most FVRD directors at the Nov. 24 board meeting.

Hemlock Valley electoral area director Wendy Bales, who voted against the MOU, said she’d like to see a public advisory committee formed to hear residents’ concerns.

She said residents don’t get a chance to fully air their views at regular public meetings where they are limited to one or two questions.

“There’s no dialogue at those meetings,” Bales said.

Abbotsford Mayor George Peary, who also voted against the MOU, said he believes changes can still be made to the current agreement.

“The agreement is there, I’m happy it is there,” he said. “We might yet arrive at something we can all subscribe to. If that’s the case, good.”

But he disagreed with the MOU’s “three-colour” approach to mapping potential gravel removal areas, and the industry’s desire for one fee across the region.

Homeowners living in “green” areas where gravel mining would be allowed fear their house values will fall or they simply won’t be able to sell.

Gravel mining would not be allowed in “red” areas, but could take place under certain conditions in “yellow” areas.

One fee charged by municipalities for gravel removal would be put in place across the region.

Peary said the B.C. government is pushing the plan because it wants to protect the province’s gravel resources.

“The fear is that local government will essentially throw it away or allow other development on top of a valuable (gravel) resource,” he said.

rfreeman@theprogress.com

chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #262 on: December 15, 2009, 10:31:16 AM »

Chilliwack Progress
Gravel plan critics ‘terrorizing’ communities, minister says




Published: December 14, 2009 6:00 PM

1 Comment
 B.C. Mines Minister Randy Hawes says critics of a proposed gravel removal plan for the Fraser Valley are “terrorizing” communities in the region by fanning the flames of unfounded fears.

And those critics may “unwittingly” be doing communities more harm than good, he says, as the plan would save taxpayers “hundreds of thousands of dollars” in legal fees, and maintain an affordable source of aggregate, most of which is bought by local governments with taxpayers’ money.

Hawes also says the charge that a memorandum of understanding recently approved by Fraser Valley Regional District directors was done “in lockstep” with the gravel industry is “frankly, a bunch of drivel.”

Public hearings were not held during the five years the MOU was being hammered out, he says, because there would always be someone opposed to some part of the plan and “we would not have completed the project.”

Having elected FVRD directors on the Aggregate Pilot Project committee was a “balanced way” of including residents’ concerns in the MOU, he insisted.

A similar process is now taking place in the Okanagan - with public consultation - because of the ground-breaking work done in the FVRD, he said.

The minister compared the APP process to the way developers work with city planners on proposed subdivisions, ironing out details before presenting the “product” at a public hearing.

“I’m looking at this (APP agreement) the same way,” he said.

Public hearings at the regional and municipal level will be held now that the MOU has been approved by the FVRD directors, and officials of the B.C. government and gravel industry.

The MOU uses a three-colour map to identify gravel resources in the region, with green designating reserves available for mining; red for areas not open to mining; and yellow where mining can take place under certain conditions.

Currently, mines can be located anywhere in the province by order of the chief mines inspector by authority of the B.C. Mines Act.

FVRD Director Dick Bogstie said that’s what has made the lives of some area residents “freakin’ miserable” and led to doomed court challenges by the regional district.

“I’ve been fighting gravel operations and quarries since the day I was elected,” Bogstie said, but he held his nose and voted for the MOU because it gave the region some control over the location of gravel mines, and thus some stability for homeowners.

“Everybody had to give up something,” he said, to reach the agreement. “It’s one of those things. There’s no winners in this.”

The MOU will also allow local governments to put restrictions on gravel processing, like noise and dust levels, and eliminate “double-trucking” that will reduce carbon emissions.

Some property owners will be “annoyed as hell” to find they are within a green area, Bogstie agreed, but he said he has not been able to confirm whether property values will increase or decrease as a result.

“We have to be cautious that we don’t create expectations that don’t exist,” he said. “We want to be as truthful with the people as we can.”

The MOU also proposes one fee charged by municipalities for gravel removal across the region, which was a key demand of the industry.

But Abbotsford Mayor George Peary said in an earlier interview that he doesn’t agree with that proposal, and he believes public hearings can still bring changes to the final agreement.

While some FVRD directors questioned whether those changes could stand up against provincial legislation, Hawes said the MOU itself protects them from being over-ridden by the senior government.

If any party “violates the conditions” of the MOU, he said, then the agreement fails “and we’re back to square one.”

Hemlock Valley electoral area director Wendy Bales wants the MOU scrapped, and a public advisory committee formed to present residents’ concerns in a whole new process.

Sumas Mountain resident Walter Neufeld said the public needed to be part of the process because FVRD directors on the committee had a conflict of interest in keeping gravel costs down for the government.

But Popkum Director Bill Dickey said ending the “turmoil” of the constant land-use complaints from residents was the main concern of area directors.

“We were not attempting to get some cost-savings for ourselves, but resolution to a huge amount of turmoil for us,” he said.

rfreeman@theprogress.com




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  Bounder999  35 minutes ago  

What absolute drivel this person spouts. I guess if you are a politician you can say anything you want.

 Comment 2, by Chilliwack 5 minutes ago
 I think it is the Liberal government that is doing the "terrorizing” of communities, not the critics as Mr Hawes stated it this article. They just want to shove down peoples throats this and similar pet projects such as fish farms, HST, run of the river projects, and gravel extraction on the Fraser River to name a few. They seem to do everything they can to prevent input from local governments,organized groups and the general public that are concerned about protecting our environment and way of life. The only bright spot will be that this will be the last term Mr. Hawes and company will be in government as they have become more aggrogant than ever, the people will not forget this time! I look forward to seeing them back on the other side of the House in 3 years time.!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 11:12:10 AM by chris gadsden »
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chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #263 on: December 17, 2009, 12:59:51 PM »

5 of us met with Federal Cabinet Minister Chuck Strahl for one hour this morning. As usual our technical people made a great presentation to the Minister. We never know how effective these meeting are in getting us to our goal of having gravel extraction done properly so fish and fish habitat is protected but we as volunteers we keep doing the best we can on this on going file.

We hope to have some of our Fraser River Gravel Stewardship Committee appear at the sockeye inquiry in the months ahead.

chris gadsden

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chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #265 on: February 19, 2010, 10:40:36 AM »

Another story with reference to gravel.

Sto:lo ready to speak out
Want a voice at Cohen inquiry on sockeye salmon
Paul J. Henderson, The Times
Published: Friday, February 19, 2010
Some local groups want to present information at the federal commission set up to look into the decline of sockeye salmon in the Fraser River as applications for standing are being accepted now.

Among those that will apply for standing at the Cohen Commission of Inquiry are the Sto:lo Tribal Council and the Fraser River Gravel Stewardship Committee (FRGSC), which is a coalition of environmental organizations, angling groups, scientists and others.

On Nov. 5, 2009, Prime Minister Stephen Harper announced an inquiry would be held to look into the collapse of the sockeye salmon fishery in the Fraser. Only about seven per cent of the estimated 8.7 million sockeye returned to the Fraser River last year.



B.C. Supreme Court Justice Bruce Cohen was named to head the inquiry with a mandate of reporting by May 1, 2011. On Tuesday, the Cohen Commission formally asked for applications for standing until Mar. 3.

"Based on its findings, the commission will make recommendations for improving the sustainability of the sockeye salmon fishery in the Fraser River, including, as required, any changes to the policies, practices and procedures of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans in relation to the management of the Fraser River sockeye salmon fishery," a press release from the Cohen Commission stated.

On Wednesday, Ernie Crey from the Sto:lo Tribal Council confirmed they would apply for standing as did John Werring, a biologist with the David Suzuki Foundation, one of the member organizations in the FRGSC.

"There is a habitat loss issue, and there's also fishery management issue," Werring told the Times Thursday. "The Department of Fisheries and Oceans are involved on both fronts: ensuring that fish habitat is not being destroyed but also that the fisheries are being managed."

Werring has long taken great issue with the ongoing practice of removing gravel from the Fraser River for the construction industry under the guise of flood protection.

Local MLAs John Les and Barry Penner have argued that gravel removal is essential to protect Chilliwack from flooding, but Werring calls that argument "superfluous."

"The documents that we have, even from fisheries and oceans [DFO), clearly state that largescale gravel removal will do nothing to alleviate the flood risk. We are arguing this is market-based."

Werring sees a direct correlation between salmon stock declines and gravel removal, pointing to 2007 when thousands of salmon were left "high and dry" after a causeway to access gravel was built.

"They are taking gravel right off a gravel bar . . . we know these habitats are critical," he said.

"They are not taking gravel out from locations that would help the flood profile; they are taking it out of very convenient, easily accessible

chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #266 on: February 19, 2010, 12:33:19 PM »

Today in the Chilliwack Progress.

Gravel extraction putting Fraser sturgeon at risk


In the recent article on Fraser River Gravel Extractions (Gravel removal
gets under way in Fraser River, Chilliwack Progress, Tuesday Feb. 16),
Dwayne Meredith, acting director of strategic mitigation projects at
Emergency Management BC (EMBC) is ascribed as saying that all the sites
cleared environmental requirements of federal legislation, and that all
had fisheries modelling and topographical surveys done prior to
approval.

This is only partially true. Documents received through a Freedom of
Information request clearly indicate that there have been no technical
reviews of impacts of gravel extraction on white sturgeon habitat
associated with any of the 2009/10 gravel extraction projects for the
Fraser River. This is confirmed in an email recently penned by DFO in
which it is stated: "MoE ESD [BC Ministry of Environment Environmental
Stewardship Division] has advised DFO that while the absence of the
pre-assessment data was not ideal, the province felt that the risk to
sturgeon was not going to compromise their overall management
objectives."

Lower Fraser River White Sturgeon have been classified by the Committee
on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada (COSEWIC) as endangered
and both the provincial and federal government have committed to doing
everything they can to protect this vulnerable species, short of listing
it as endangered under Canada's Species At Risk Act.

Both DFO and the province have been repeatedly advised of this
shortcoming over the past six months by the Fraser River Gravel
Stewardship Committee (a committee made up of respected scientists and
concerned citizens) and the Fraser River Sturgeon Conservation Society
and have repeatedly been asked to delay these gravel extractions until
these studies have been done. Even provincial fisheries biologists have
recommended that these gravel extraction not proceed until potential
impacts to sturgeon can be determined.

But all of this has been, to no avail.

Instead of living up to their commitments to protect the sturgeon,
senior bureaucrats from the MOE and EMBC have over-ruled their
biologists, ignored concerned scientists and citizens groups and have
decided to extract the gravel anyway, and DFO has capitulated saying the
whims of the province, where it comes to gravel extraction, supersede
their mandate to protect our fish and fisheries.

It is a sad day indeed when the protection of species that are known to
be endangered in Canada is sacrificed so that governments can achieve
their "management objectives"; one of which in this case, is to ensure
that the lower mainland construction industry has an adequate supply of
gravel to sate its voracious, and ever-growing appetite.

John Werring

Aquatic Habitat Specialist

David Suzuki Foundation

chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #267 on: February 21, 2010, 10:20:29 PM »

Here is some brief videos I shot today at Gill Bar. Not the best quality but gives you an idea what is going on out there. Note they are also screeening gravel on site. A first for gravel excavation projects on the Fraser. To me a sad day to see this going on again this year on the largest salmon producing river in the world or maybe it was at one time but with activity like this it sure does not help salmon, other fish species and sturgeon stocks. Of course this aggregate is worth millions of dollars to some people and that is why it is allowed, even though some say it is to save the Valley from a flood. ??? :o


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICnzg6xJO7E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRg_QaDkOGM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mx-OQ-GnB4

skaha

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #268 on: February 22, 2010, 08:09:33 AM »

Instead of living up to their commitments to protect the sturgeon,
senior bureaucrats from the MOE and EMBC have over-ruled their
biologists, ignored concerned scientists and citizens groups and have
decided to extract the gravel anyway, and DFO has capitulated saying the
whims of the province, where it comes to gravel extraction, supersede
their mandate to protect our fish and fisheries.

---This is no excuse: DFO and senior bureaucrats from MOE and EMBC can and should make a statement that they agree or do not agree with the decision.  I can only conclude from this that DFO, MOE and EMBC senior staff agree that no significant impact will occur. In case they have forgotten their is a Professional ethic which is supposed to supersede political correctness. 
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chris gadsden

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Re: "There are safer places to get gravel"
« Reply #269 on: February 28, 2010, 01:44:45 PM »

For those interested in this topic Here are 4 video's that the Common Sense Canadian has put together and posted on u tube this week re gravel extraction on the Fraser River. The videos I feel help to explain the facts to this issue from the Fraser River Gravel Stewardship Committee's stand point. This year three sites, Gill Bar, Little Big Bar and Hamilton Bar presently are having gravel extracted.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H21_wq6ecJk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZbMgCoJuXk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu4WNWHJ_1E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utWmoX0yB6o
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 01:51:19 PM by Rodney »
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