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[Every Day]

Doja are you freaking kidding???Its no BP but damage is still damage and in a small system a few fish lost, down the the road could lead to trouble dont ya think.How many fry have you noticed while out on the ved?

Most of the fry will have been gone out to sea already, which is why you aren't seeing many. Go to the Vedder in March/April/May and then tell me what you see.
All of the REDDs are already hatched and gone as well which would be the only problem driving to that little island.
I would agree with doja, I really don't see a huge problem with this whole thing.

We could go on and on about how we are damaging the rivers. People walking on REDDs etc.
If you want something to complain about, go look at Cultus Lake after a hot weekend at the fish fence. Take note of the huge oil skim wherever the wind is blowing too.
Think that stock is ever gonna come back with all that pollution? Highly doubt it. Boats pollute the water a lot more than a couple trucks.

[Rantalot]

Then do you want to tell me what i was watching swimming around the rocks  Friday when i was there?I could have sworn i was watching fish ranging in size from 1/2 inch to 1 1/2 inches long??

[jeff]

I have seen lots of little fish swiming around as well and was wondering what they were.

[Fish Slayer]

Steelhead and some salmon stay in freshwater for a longer period of time than the rest of their "cousins". What about the horses that tramp around in the river? All the lost lead from anglers? Foam floats? Discarded line? Timmies cups? Oil washed off the road from vehicles? Creosote soaked telephone poles? And the list goes on, the only thing that separates these trucks from the rest of the list is that it is illegal to drive onto the river bed. It is posted elsewhere on the river and I believe at one point in time it was posted down there as well, heck it might even still be there.

[dennyman]

Personally, I find it amusing how people  try to justify a wrong. If you got clocked going down Highway #1, at 140 km/hr, too bad, so sad, but quit your whining and pay your fine.  Same thing here, if the person should not be on the river bed, get your vehicle off of there or pay a fine. Too many times in our society there seems to be a lack of respect for laws and rules.  For people who want to drive up to the beach, Cultus lake is a few more kilometers up the road and not on the river bed of the Vedder.

[doja]

Personally, I find it amusing how people  try to justify a wrong. If you got clocked going down Highway #1, at 140 km/hr, too bad, so sad, but quit your whining and pay your fine.  Same thing here, if the person should not be on the river bed, get your vehicle off of there or pay a fine. Too many times in our society there seems to be a lack of respect for laws and rules.  For people who want to drive up to the beach, Cultus lake is a few more kilometers up the road and not on the river bed of the Vedder.

Oh, I'm quite sure you have probably speed over the stated limit as EVERYONE does unless you want to get honked at lol. 140 is excessive vs 110-120 but both illegal. Truth be told that is probably worse than what these guys do/did. The mud boggers/litters are probably the reasons they don't want cars there in as they have destroyed small streams off roading it.

Those that make the rules of society are the ones who are really responsible for the loss of environmental habitat, fish included but you seem to think they know best.

If you really think they have the rivers best interest in mind better think again... Don't see them cleaning up the rivers or offering to assist in any way... But they DO remove gravel

Then do you want to tell me what i was watching swimming around the rocks  Friday when i was there?I could have sworn i was watching fish ranging in size from 1/2 inch to 1 1/2 inches long??

Do you really think those that are still in the rivers are unable to swim away? I've never steeped on a fish yet, they are pretty quick and spook easily! You are not giving them enough credit.

I find it really, really funny how people who hit the river with the intent to penetrate fish(wild/endangered or not) with sharp pointy hooks which does great harm to the fish stocks and yet complain about something they don't like/see even though their effect is greater although they never think about. The guy/granola eco friendly person who does not fish probably has more ground to stand on than a fisherman does on these issues.

And I believe this only really takes place in one spot on the entire river and is not a real problem. Just people enjoying their time possibly at the expense of fish....Hmm ... kinda like fisherman! lol

And FYI, being illegal doesn't mean its wrong or bad or negative in all cases ie gravel removal. Many things are legal in the industry sector that are so damaging but are 100% legal as they support society's systematic destruction of nature and environment.

Heck I know a guy and if he accidentally foul hooked a fish when the salmon are running hard (it happens) he keeps it as he sees no point in letting it go go only to easily catch his limit. Wrong by law yes but in reality not really but we know why we must have these laws.

Last year I saw guys floss/snagging (more snagging than flossing) and only keeping the ones hooked in the mouth as they were worried I'd say something. I did... keep em, better than foul hooking over and over just to get one in the mouth every 10th one (pinks) they were taking pretty good body shots too being near the tail-out above a fast run!

[Rantalot]

Here's some matches go play in tha forest

[andychan]

How does this compare to people who wet wade???


...but if he just drove up carefully I don't see the worry's. Still much worse going on and I don't see anyone doing much about that?

The word "careful" cannot be applied to 3000 pound vehicles driving onto a fish bearing stream. And comparing a fisherman to a truck is not reasonable on any level. One is flesh and buoyant and the other is chock full of metal and rednecks.

What I don't understand is your logic overall doja. You seem to be have confused the concept of an "argument" with "comparative analysis".

For example in court if you are on trial for assault, a successful argument is NOT saying "well, your honour it's not so bad - I could have killed him and his dog." That is a "failed" argument.

So doja, if you can come back with a real argument on why the 3000 truck "should" be allowed to be on a delicate river system (instead of "it could be worse" comparisons") you will unfortunately be forced to eat at the children's table.

[doja]

Well Andy you have "failed" to show damage that the truck caused....LOL A few displaced rocks??? Does freshet not "effect" the river far more??? How about flash flood due to logging when it rains heavy. My first post asked exactly what damage is caused and how it rates as a whole and no one seems to be able to read or have an answer??? Don't try turning it around with comments like well prove what it doesn't do??? Fine... it does no damage. Now prove it does!

Those are points. I've yet to see any real points from you!!! Now if some one said ya they kill fish eggs and stuff like that I be a little more impressed but so far I've seen comments I'd expect from the uninformed complainer who doesn't like what he see's and nothing more. There may be damage but the more this goes on I bet I'll see none, but I am more than welcomed to see if there is as that is what I ask originally but no one has produced yet. Just blah, blah, blah....

Rantalot, Matches in the forest is not proof of damage in the river and a slight de-rail of the OP and topic. I asked a legit question and if you are so set on it being destructive than please tell me why. Very simple and no need to derail this and get personal. Maybe start a fire while no fire topic else-wheres...

3000lb truck is probably equal to 15 people walking the river bank on a lb vs lb not taking into account more pressure per square meter which does little to a bed of ROCK LOL.    Now the effect these 15 people have is far spread out than this truck increasing their effect on the river. I know I have added my share of bank erosion to the upper parts of the river.

Here I'll throw you a bone.... maybe the bank erosion is a valid concern.... oh wait people probably do more damage walking it excessively over the years every where, not to mention the freshet does a number to it anyways so.... Heck the annual clean ups probably do more bank erosion and river bed displacement than this truck did LOL

I'm willing to bet that 1 fisherman does more damage in a year to the eco-system then this truck in the river, but please prove me wrong!!!
 

Have a good day, or at least try to,


Doja

[doja]

The word "careful" cannot be applied to 3000 pound vehicles driving onto a fish bearing stream. And comparing a fisherman to a truck is not reasonable on any level. One is flesh and buoyant and the other is chock full of metal and rednecks.

What I don't understand is your logic overall doja. You seem to be have confused the concept of an "argument" with "comparative analysis".

For example in court if you are on trial for assault, a successful argument is NOT saying "well, your honour it's not so bad - I could have killed him and his dog." That is a "failed" argument.

So doja, if you can come back with a real argument on why the 3000 truck "should" be allowed to be on a delicate river system (instead of "it could be worse" comparisons") you will unfortunately be forced to eat at the children's table.

Humans are not "buoyant" when 70% plus of their mass is above water not to mention that we like to twist and turn further digging in. I feel like I'm already at the childrens table LOL

Pathogen/bactria transfer from felt is a great concern and far, far, far more than this truck but I'd be willing to bet you would fight to the death to keep your beloved non slip felt boots.... Mine are the new rubber so ha

Is this truly about the metal truck or the rednecks you don't seem to like.

A real argument, ok, The truck does no damage judge. Now you can prove that it does prosecution... And if there is damage why are fishermen allowed to cause so much more damage and that is ok???

Comparative analysis, Please compare what the truck does that is so destructive VS fishermen destructive effect on the river and which one is greater.

[skaha]

--the rules are general...to prevent potential damage, I can't think of an instance where there is no risk
--as I said earlier... there are designated crossings on a sensitive river like the kettle.. risk managed that they will not be over used or used when water is to high or fish are spawning.
--If the crossing becomes to popular they will either have to shut it down or rebuild the bridge.

 

[andychan]

Wow doja or Stevey,(apart from your totally irrelevant comparisons) you sure typed a lot and yet still failed to tell me why the truck should be allowed to park in the middle of the river (when the law clearly states it is not).  

Trucks leak oil. Humans don't. 3000lbs of metal shakes up the river exponentially more then any single fisherman can. If the truck gets stuck it takes more trucks to pull it out ripping up the gravel in the process.

You want more?

Why don't you read this article and write a rebuttal.

http://www.bclocalnews.com/tri_city_maple_ridge/mapleridgenews/news/98372129.html

here is an excerpt :

“It is totally inappropriate,” said Geoff Clayton, with the Alouette River Management Society, which was also advised of the complaint. “This is a garden for the fish and these are the seeds. By disturbing the rocks, it’s just like going into somebody’s garden after it’s been seeded and tearing it up,” he added. “It is usually borne out of ignorance.”


Also doja, have you noticed no one here has agreed with you. Either we are all wrong or...well if you cannot be persuaded on the error of your stubborn attitude I predict no amount of words can change it.

But it's ok, when you try to pull that flawed comparison defense to a cop or judge you may wake up to see how far wrong you are.

We'll just be smiling as you protest all the to jail lol.

[Rantalot]

Go back to 2005, August/September, fly fishing pinks with my son in the Vedder on the north side of the freeway bridge. Bubba #1 drives into the river in a 2wd pickup onto an exposed bar and proceeds to throw sticks for his dog. After a while he decides to leave and tries driving back out but the rear wheels just sink. Buddy Bubba #2 drives out with his 4X4 and hooks up to him to pull him out. First the rear wheels sink in and then the front wheels sink in. Both Bubbas are now stuck in about 2-3' of water. They then call on Bubba #3 to come and help pull them out but he sees a CO/DFO on the opposite shore and decides not to. CO/DFO get hold of Bubba #1 &#2, guess what, tow truck called, vehicles impounded until after there court date in NOVEMBER. Nice to see them without their vehicles for 3 months, hopefully the fine was just as good. I report any vehicle I see in the water with the location, a description of the vehicle, driver and of course the license#.

I wish i had:(

 Doja,it just seems you want to flame thats why i said "here some matches go play in the forest " not one of your posts makes much sense???

[doja]

Andychan, nobody agreed with me because I never said it was ok and there is nothing to agree with , I just wanted to know whats so bad about it... I personally don't have a problem with it though. but clearly by your post English knowledge/writing is not your strong suite. And now you talk of gravel removal in the alloutte when the topic is a truck in the vedder river, actually on bar in the vedder??? You are all over the place, grasping at straws??? You are aware that there is gravel removal that takes place on the vedder right that is perfectly legal? And it takes place at a poorer time than this truck entering it.

Ohh, class act putting my real name into it, but it is not stevey and don't say that again!!!! It is open for anyone to read (unlike your email), no need for you to start name calling and if you want you can email me and we can talk in person... I'd be more than happy to!!!

So far andychan (ironically) is the only one who answered my question, although very poorly, but because his writing and statements don't line up I'll discard them as rubbish until he makes sense.

Like I said earlier, what is so bad about it? Getting stuck is a valid argument although I don't see the great destruction caused by it. I don't really see someone leaving there vehicle there to get carried away.

Leaking oil is peanuts compared to the run off and boat pollution.

I wish i had:(

 Doja,it just seems you want to flame thats why i said "here some matches go play in the forest " not one of your posts makes much sense

Which post/statement do you want me to clarify? I'll be happy to do so... And if you re-read your posts and past post on page one you'll see that YOU are the one flaming

And just to re-clarify, I just want to know the harm being done? if any? If there is then I'm in full support but so far I'm not too impressed. No need to start bashing or getting emotional. Just provide facts as I want to know! We are just talking like adults, right?

And rantalot, here is something to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_%28Internet%29