Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: clarki on July 26, 2022, 10:41:25 PM
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Any anglers witness this on Sunday?
https://www.theprogress.com/news/video-violent-assault-of-angler-caught-on-video-on-vedder-river-in-chilliwack/
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Any anglers witness this on Sunday?
https://www.theprogress.com/news/video-violent-assault-of-angler-caught-on-video-on-vedder-river-in-chilliwack/
the crazy stuff that happens on the vedder is beyond me..
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All those anglers and not one of them steps in to help that man. WTH ?
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Assault by jetboat operators on a fisherman on the Vedder last Sunday.
I saw this online. Horrible.
Video in link below.
https://www.theprogress.com/news/video-violent-assault-of-angler-caught-on-video-on-vedder-river-in-chilliwack/
(https://i.ibb.co/QjfPn76/2022-07-27-083613.jpg)
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This guy just earned himself a criminal record . Hope his boss and other associates see how much of a loser he is and gets fired .
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This guy just earned himself a criminal record .
chances are good he already has one!
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chances are good he already has one!
probably why the cops want to bring these guys in for a chat to see if they are known to them and if so then the book gets thrown at em.
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Those other anglers that stood by and did nothing while that man was assaulted should be ashamed of themselves. Some of them may have already seen that video and I hope their heads are hung low.
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everyone always says this but 99% of the time people watch,
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Sad but there’s some truth to that.
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everyone always says this but 99% of the time people watch,
True, probably everyone is shocked to even react or if the angler did throw a rock people might think he brought it upon himself
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delete
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this is a fail on so many levels.
first off their are better rivers to play with jet boats in the lower mainland. upper pit, lillooet, squamish, fraser, harrison, indian to name a few. the fact that the chilliwack river has not been closed to jet boats pass hwy 1 bridge is really odd and thats coming from someone who owned a similar boat in that video. way to much recreational users on this watershed for people flying up and down at 30 mph. just a matter of time before someone gets killed.
secondly, if its true that the individual through rocks which was most likely the case based off what the boat owners reactions were, he deserved the beating. at no point is vandalising someones property a good idea. would i have gone back to lay the smack down on him, probably not but i know some people certainly will. play stupid games, win stupid prizes. at this current time their are no rules saying the jet boat cant be there which as i stated earlier is goofy but legal at this point.
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everyone always says this but 99% of the time people watch,
There was a fair bit of premeditation in this case and intimidation; one guy assaulted the angler & one of his mates stood by to block intervention.
However the few times I have been present in such a situation all it took was to tell the people in the confrontation to take it easy or calm down. Warning them it was being recorded on video may have made a difference.
I'd also say they are not justified to thump the guy because someone through a rock out in the river. BTW there was at least when I read it no verification a rock was thrown. No witness said they saw that.
There will be more of these confrontations as it usually takes years to change maritime regulations if it happens at all. FWIW roaring up and down the river is technically legal.
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well unfortunately as rivers get more crowded due to more people fishing, or getting into the water to cool off from the heat, somebody is going to get seriously injured. I believe it was last year a woman was just about hit by a boat in the lower section of the Vedder while swimming. And a boat owner in that situation better have deep pockets and the services of a good lawyer. Because you can bet your last dollar the legal fees and the settlement of a lawsuit will not be pretty.
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Just close the river to motorized boats above the highway bridge, already. Jeez. It's baffling to me that jet boats are still allowed, let alone choose to go ripping up the river during peak swimming/floating season.
Someone's going to get their head taken off by a boat and that'll be the catalyst needed to institute a ban or restriction. What a world it would be if we would act before the inevitable accident, rather than after.
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Or the boat owners reaction could solely be based on too many Budweisers and a couple of girls in the boat to impress. Just as likely as the rocks thrown situation. All speculation right now. Sad situation either way.
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The Fraser Valley Sport Fishing Advisory Committee has been bringing up this issue at numerous meetings since two years ago. It was only a matter of time before something like this happened. We're just fortunate that there hasn't been a collision or fatality, yet. Since the incident, we've identified the individual who assaulted the angler, it's an angling guide, which makes it that much worse. Email communications have been going around since yesterday between DFO, the province, members of the SFAC, Transport Canada on pressing for some degree of restrictions on motorized boats upstream from KWB so this type of conflicts can be eliminated. Yeah the river is for everone for sure, but realistically certain activities just can't be mixed with others for safety concerns. That's why we have designated trails for horseback riding, mountain biking and hiking, so users can access them without worrying about collision or other accidents. This incident leaves a black mark on tourism in Chilliwack. We got so many positive things happening here, and it just takes a few bad apples to ruin it.
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Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
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How badly did the guy get hurt? I saw there was a video but not interested in watching it. Pretty depressing.
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There was a fair bit of premeditation in this case and intimidation; one guy assaulted the angler & one of his mates stood by to block intervention.
However the few times I have been present in such a situation all it took was to tell the people in the confrontation to take it easy or calm down. Warning them it was being recorded on video may have made a difference.
I'd also say they are not justified to thump the guy because someone through a rock out in the river. BTW there was at least when I read it no verification a rock was thrown. No witness said they saw that.
There will be more of these confrontations as it usually takes years to change maritime regulations if it happens at all. FWIW roaring up and down the river is technically legal.
The angler who was assaulted admitted to throwing the rock and I personally spoke to witnesses about an hour after the incident that said he was throwing rocks.
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The angler who was assaulted admitted to throwing the rock and I personally spoke to witnesses about an hour after the incident that said he was throwing rocks.
Well technically throwing rocks into the river is not illegal. Just like bombing up and down the river in a jetboat is not illegal.
Did a rock strike the boat or the jetboat driver? Since you were there and talked to people. Did a rock hit anyone.
Because if throwing items into water as a boat passes as justification for assault then any fisherman casting a spoon deemed "too close" by the boat operator...what precedent is that? it's grounds for a beating?
And why didn't the operator of the jetboat just stay and call the RCMP to report his boat being hit. There were witnesses, as you say to back him.
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the fact that this was guide makes it that much worse. how can you have no hull registration numbers and used the boat for guiding. he should know better. hopefully transports canada gets involved. thats a 200k boat new.
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You sound like Saul Goodman
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You sound like Saul Goodman
Your honour the witness is evading the question lol.
Love that show.
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with all the stupid going around these days i wish i became a lawyer. no shortage of work.
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The angler who was assaulted admitted to throwing the rock and I personally spoke to witnesses about an hour after the incident that said he was throwing rocks.
He admitted it to you or did you just hear it from someone else? I guess we have to wait for it to go to court, if it does.
from the article:
More than one person contacted The Progress to claim that someone on the shoreline threw a rock at the boat prior to the assault, but the two witnesses did not report that.
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I don't understand why it took 15 minutes to realize someone threw rocks before turning around to come back ???
Regardless, its terrible .
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He admitted it to you or did you just hear it from someone else? I guess we have to wait for it to go to court, if it does.
from the article:
I have the screenshot
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I have the screenshot
of what? Do screenshots have audio? I can't see what point you are making.
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Of rufus admitting in writing that he threw the rock
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I've been on the phone and emails with my SFAC colleagues, DFO, mayor's office, Tourism Chilliwack all afternoon regarding this as we are all appalled by the incident and know the urgency to deal with it right away. After some further discussion, it appears that there already is a speed restriction for the river and the issue appears to be enforcement and users choosing not to abide by the rules. The rule, within Ministry of Transportation legislation states that a 10km per hour speed restriction is in place on all waters within 100m from the shoreline. The City of Chilliwack has already assisted MOT by affixing a speed restriction sign to the Keith Wilson Bridge for all watercraft to see, none of us were told when this happened. Now that we know, it will be well publicized and more proper signages will go up at key locations. Expect a more formal media release next week on this particular incident and the issue.
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Of rufus admitting in writing that he threw the rock
Oh "Rufus"... so you know his name as well? Sounds reliable.
In the absence of anything more definitive I am skeptical.
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Only you Ralph… He’s a pretty recognizable dude…. I’m also not defending the boaters. I just think everyone should face the consequences of their actions
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Rod I believe power boats are not supposed to be operated in areas where bathers are in the water...I'd think that includes anglers & tubers.
Over the years, I have been buzzed by power boats at 5 , 6 or more times that speed on many location within 50 to 100 feet of the shore including some well known guides and fishing personalities.
The best solution is to stop the use of power boats on most of the river.
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Only you Ralph… He’s a pretty recognizable dude…. I’m also not defending the boaters. I just think everyone should face the consequences of their actions
Yes I could see from the video he is recognizable. As I said and I don't on the face of it put stock in what you claim to have or have seen [a screen shot]. I'll leave it at that.
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I don’t know how to post it
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Are you referring to the screenshot of him admitting to throwing a rock into the water and then throwing another in self defence.
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The one I have just says threw a rock doesn’t say it was into the water.
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Rod I believe power boats are not supposed to be operated in areas where bathers are in the water...I'd think that includes anglers & tubers.
Over the years, I have been buzzed by power boats at 5 , 6 or more times that speed on many location within 50 to 100 feet of the shore including some well known guides and fishing personalities.
The best solution is to stop the use of power boats on most of the river.
Totally agree, On my last trip I saw kids running away from the shore when they saw the speed boats approaching (there were 3 of them in line)
like everyone said its a matter of time when an accident happens before someone decides to take action
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Don’t think you can operate a jet boat at less then 10km, so that would effectively close it.
Not sure continuing to beat someone after they take a knee is showing someone a lesion think your getting into sociopath territory, or maybe it was just all the beers
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Do fishing guides need to have a clean criminal record ?
This guy should not be working in the industry with that kind of anger / violence / dangerous operation of a power boat issues......
Can the BC guide association take action against his guide license?
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Are you referring to the screenshot of him admitting to throwing a rock into the water and then throwing another in self defence.
Seen lots of stuff posted online about this including the screen shot I’ve seen someone claim there was rocks thrown but they all missed, seen some claim he fake threw rocks, seen someone claim the operator of the boat is a guide.
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Do fishing guides need to have a clean criminal record ?
This guy should not be working in the industry with that kind of anger / violence / dangerous operation of a power boat issues......
Can the BC guide association take action against his guide license?
"The following criteria must be met in order to proceed with an application for an Angling Guide Licence:
Must be nineteen (19) years of age or older.
Must be a Canadian citizen or permanent resident of Canada (i.e. a landed immigrant).
Must satisfy the Regional Fish and Wildlife Manager, within the region you intend to operate, that you have a working knowledge of the Wildlife Act and Regulations. This is done through the successful completion of the Angling Guide exam.
A person who is an angling guide must have public liability insurance, in an amount of no less than $2 million, that is:
a. Applicable to his or her angling guide business, and
b. In effect during the period for which the angling guide will operate."
from: https://portal.nrs.gov.bc.ca/web/client/-/angling-guide-licence
I don't see any requirement for licensed guides to be members of the BC guide Association so I can't see that they can take any action.
BTW unless it's changed Guides can employ assistant guides who are not licensed and can take anglers out fishing on their own...without a Licensed Guide present.
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Just close the river to motorized boats above the highway bridge, already. Jeez. It's baffling to me that jet boats are still allowed, let alone choose to go ripping up the river during peak swimming/floating season.
Someone's going to get their head taken off by a boat and that'll be the catalyst needed to institute a ban or restriction. What a world it would be if we would act before the inevitable accident, rather than after.
I agree, the foreseeable problems that could occur are only fixed once its too late. A block away from my old high school there is a LOT of construction going on and loads of trucks coming in and out. The block where lots of kids walk home after school didnt even have a sidewalk and its been complained about so many times and earlier this year a 14 yr old afghan refugee was struck and killed by a truck. Its always they wanna fix the issue after a tragedy has happened.
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I've been on the phone and emails with my SFAC colleagues, DFO, mayor's office, Tourism Chilliwack all afternoon regarding this as we are all appalled by the incident and know the urgency to deal with it right away. After some further discussion, it appears that there already is a speed restriction for the river and the issue appears to be enforcement and users choosing not to abide by the rules. The rule, within Ministry of Transportation legislation states that a 10km per hour speed restriction is in place on all waters within 100m from the shoreline. The City of Chilliwack has already assisted MOT by affixing a speed restriction sign to the Keith Wilson Bridge for all watercraft to see, none of us were told when this happened. Now that we know, it will be well publicized and more proper signages will go up at key locations. Expect a more formal media release next week on this particular incident and the issue.
while this is a great step in the direction.. remember we are talking about people. There are road speed limit signs everywhere yet many people go over... Signs just aren't enough for most people.
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Was just on the news, First Nations POed
Claimed they have had altercations with this particular boater
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Strange there is no registration numbers on the boat. With the amount of air play the video is getting just a matter of time before the persons involved in this unfortunate incident are identified. I would assume assault charges being laid by the Chilliwack R.C.M.P.
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https://globalnews.ca/video/9021184/chilliwack-first-nation-leader-warns-about-jet-boats-on-vedder-river/
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Violence will never solve a problem , so this case be the evidence …
Absolutely brutal actions by the operators or boaters , however …
We are all grown men and women , you make your bed , you sleep in it .
You c someone doing what this video shows , meaning the boaters , your smart choice would be , not to get involved .
If you get involved , you better be able to deal with it …
I say this speaking from experience , of a very similar situation .
I complained , the guy stopped , but I stood my ground , and he had no chance .
Violence was never my option , but I did show teeth , and at the end we were on same grounds , and resolved and talked it out, came to a conclusion …
So , if you cross the line of wanting to inforce the law , you better be ready to pay the price .
Not defending either party and saying this was a right thing to do .
Just saying , common sense is very uncommon these days …
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Strange there is no registration numbers on the boat. With the amount of air play the video is getting just a matter of time before the persons involved in this unfortunate incident are identified. I would assume assault charges being laid by the Chilliwack R.C.M.P.
the boat has registration numbers on it. Because of colour they are hard to see. If you go to this particular guide's website you can see the numbers on his boat in the photo gallery. Looks like a dark red on the dark green near the front of the side window at the top of the gunnel. you just can't make them out in the video posted
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The rule, within Ministry of Transportation legislation states that a 10km per hour speed restriction is in place on all waters within 100m from the shoreline.
this ruling effectively can actually stop all jet boat traffic on almost all medium size and smaller rivers in BC. Very few rivers are wide enough to allow speeds quick enough to move upstream on plane. Every river anywhere would have to be more than 200m wide to allow power boat usage otherwise a boat operator is always within 100m of a shoreline on one side or the other.
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this ruling effectively can actually stop all jet boat traffic on almost all medium size and smaller rivers in BC. Very few rivers are wide enough to allow speeds quick enough to move upstream on plane. Every river anywhere would have to be more than 200m wide to allow power boat usage otherwise a boat operator is always within 100m of a shoreline on one side or the other.
There would be a lot of spots on the Fraser where travel would be impossible. Granted, it has been years since I have been on there but I remember a number of places where the river split into three or more paths where the only navagable waters are right next to one of the banks.
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I just saw a post on you tube where the guide and his company are identified. Hopefully that information is correct. If he is a member of the Fraser Valley Angling Guides Association this incident would do more damage and be incredibly embarrassing for this organization.
For instance:
The Fraser Valley Angling Guides Association is a volunteer organisation run by and for Professional Angling Guides. Our mandate is to promote a high level of professionalism among angling guides and to ensure recreational fishers rights are protected and that angling opportunities are maintained.
Definitely a black eye for them if it proves to be true.
No pun intended.
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Courts and police will look at the worse if the offender is a professional.
the term "made an example of" comes to mind.
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He has no affiliation to the fvaga
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"As owner/operator I am excited to offer guests an adventure of a lifetime! I have been a fishing guide for over 21 years and love giving clients an experience they will never forget! A certified fresh and saltwater guide, I am also a member of the Fraser Valley Guides Association."
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He has not been a paying member of FVAGA.
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this guy? looks very close. please correct if I am wrong
https://www.hookedonadventure.ca/about
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One very stupid choice and his career is essentially over. I read elsewhere from someone claiming to know the victim that victim is autistic. If true judge will come down even harder I’m sure.
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So I've been in touch with the victim of the assault both through social media and phone. Yes, I am that nosy. ;) Some have mentioned that he has autism. I don't know and I'm not going to assume or ask, but I would say that he falls in a more vulnerable minority group. Super nice guy just as others who have met him describe. He briefly explained what happened prior to the incident. He and quite a few anglers were fishing along the narrow stretch just downstream from the railway bridge. Most of them were wading into the water. The jet boat was travelling upstream pretty fast and they thought it was going to slow down once it reached the narrow part where they were standing, but it didn't. As it sped up, everyone was scrambling to get out of the water while cursing at the boat. The occupants in the boat were also shouting profanity back. Immediately after the boat had passed by, The victim threw a rock into the water to show his frustration. Awhile later, as the boat travelled downstream again, he pretended to be picking up another rock and that was when the operator of the boat made the 180 and stopped.
Obviously there is one side of the story, and another side, and... the truth. ;) so I don't think anyone would know exactly what happened unless you were there. What we do know though, is what has been shown in the video. One individual decided to make some poor judgements without considering the consequences on himself, his family, friends and community.
Originally it was thought that the victim may have a couple of fractured facial bones, but he was just being checked again at the hospital and has a broken nose which does not require surgery.
The physical injuries will most likely heal faster than the mental injuries. When asked whether he has followed up with the RCMP because we want to see charges laid on this individual, he said that he is still very shaken up by it and afraid to follow up because he fears that he may not be able to fish here safely anymore if charges are laid. I said that he must follow up and will have the support from majority of the community.
I posted the following on flybc earlier today btw:
So further to my post last night regarding the restrictions that are already in place, there have been more "clarifications" which made things even more complicated, and really demonstrates the absurdity when it comes to overlap and contradictions between federal, provincial and municipal regulations.
Transport Canada has shared that "There is a universal shoreline speed restriction on all inland waters in British Columbia (10 km/h within 30 meters of shore). This restriction only applies to rivers that are more than 100m wide." Because the Chilliwack River is less than 100m wide, this speed restriction does not apply, not under any federal regulations anyway. Basically TC is saying that no speed restrictions are in place for the Chilliwack River, or any other small tributaries of the Fraser because the width does not meet the requirement.
A petition or having a bunch of people writing in is not enough to implement a ban or speed restriction. There is an application process to do this and the entire process takes about two years. 🤦♂️ That said, with so many groups on the same page, it may speed it up.
Nobody has yet to bring the COs into the conversations so I wonder if they in fact already can enforce some kind of provincial boating restrictions, since the COs do checks on PFDs and other safe boating requirements. I'll be reaching out to them.
Pretty confident that sooner than later we'll put an end to this circus so people can enjoy the river safely.
Some have been saying that they don't fish this river anymore because of incidents like this, I think that's really unfortunate. These incidents are so rare, for the most part I find the community has been getting closer and more positive. The only way to keep this up is to keep using the river responsibly, be nice to others instead of avoiding it and letting it overrun by irresponsible individuals. I get to fish at lots of cool places but I am actually looking forward to spending lots of days fishing the Vedder this September. I'm five minute drive from the river, and I get to see lots of other anglers who I've befriended over the years, and the chinook salmon return is expected to be much bigger this season due to the doubling of smolt production in 2019.
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I would not classify genuine concern as nosy. Keep up the good work rod.
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I could be wrong but I believe crown can pursue charges all on their own ?
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They sure can !!! It just depends on the officer ! The video is enough I would think. For grounds but I’m not a officer or lawyer. Anyways. Good on you reaching out to the guy. Hopefully he can return to the flow without any anxiety or fear
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Any chance we can reach out to the victim to show him our support somehow? Without violating his privacy.
And I would strongly encourage the victim to consider civil court; he has more then enough evidence to be compensated for his pain and suffering.
And lastly those who were fishing around him that day and chose not to help do not represent myself and my fishing friends.
Thanks Rod.
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Truly sad reading that rod I hope the whole guiding community comes together and turns that guy into a Parriah.
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So I've been in touch with the victim of the assault both through social media and phone. ...
Rod, you are an amazing person. I don't believe there is a leader in the angling community of this Province that approaches your concern for the sport and other anglers. Thank you!
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Not sure if it was posted but someone on here knows who owns the boat. Would like to see it posted and let the public deal with him and ruin his business as a guide. If someone did this to an animal they would have to move out of the country, but do it to a human who will probably just let it go is disgusting. If I had the knowledge and an internet forum or knew the right people I would spend time destroying this looser. Hopefully someone knows where he lives and takes jack hammer to the hull..
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Rod, you are an amazing person. I don't believe there is a leader in the angling community of this Province that approaches your concern for the sport and other anglers. Thank you!
clarki clicking like button
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Thanks for all the work and support Rod !
Hope the victim moves on and be able to fish the river without any fears
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New ad for sport fishing in Fraser Valley
Come out to the Fraser Valley and hire a fishing guide.... Fishing a little slow on your day. No problem. Instead you can watch your guide beat senseless some random fisher on the shore ....
No thanks - FV guide association is going to see MAJOR decline in business if they don't get on top of this incident and make some kind of a statement.
I would not want to accidently hire this guy as my guide...
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Rod, you are an amazing person. I don't believe there is a leader in the angling community of this Province that approaches your concern for the sport and other anglers. Thank you!
Well thank you! I try to do nice things for some people once awhile. ;)
Regarding helping out the victim, I think he just wants to be left alone for the time being. The reason I wrote my last post was that he was planning to provide his version of story online but was fearing the messages and comments he'd get in return. I said let me do that for him instead. When the time comes for more support, I'll be sure to let everyone know.
New ad for sport fishing in Fraser Valley
Come out to the Fraser Valley and hire a fishing guide.... Fishing a little slow on your day. No problem. Instead you can watch your guide beat senseless some random fisher on the shore ....
No thanks - FV guide association is going to see MAJOR decline in business if they don't get on top of this incident and make some kind of a statement.
I would not want to accidently hire this guy as my guide...
And that's exactly it isn't it? For years we've been working hard to make this a positive, safe and fun environment for anglers, and it just takes one individual to ruin it. This will take awhile to recover, and you bet that I and lots of people will be working even harder to get us back to that point sooner than later.
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Wonder if a couple those passengers that went flailing around when he hit the "BRAKES" won't file a claim for injury ::)
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I'm just glad someone had the foresight to pull out their phone and record the whole thing. It appears that folks have narrowed down the person or persons responsible, and that Chilliwack RCMP are investigating. I'm hopeful that the Crown will determine that there's a likelihood of success (that video evidence will certainly help) and that prosecution would be in the public interest (folks can't be allowed to think that this behaviour is acceptable), which are the two things that the Crown considers when deciding whether to lay charges.
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The guiding company involved has been identified and has been making the rounds on social media. The victim also has been identified and is known on some of the social media sites. Both parties are laying low and not saying anything about the incident. Chilliwack R.C.M.P I would assume also is aware of of the identity’s of all persons involved. Charges pending.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK5aLndKmtY
Second comment.
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The Google review score for "Hooked on Adventure" have dropped from 4.8 to 3.5 in the last 48 hours (Jul 28 to 30). Seems like the word is out :-X
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https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/angler-assaulted-in-chilliwack-renews-push-for-speed-restrictions-on-vedder-river
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The Google review score for "Hooked on Adventure" have dropped from 4.8 to 3.5 in the last 48 hours (Jul 28 to 30). Seems like the word is out :-X
3.4 now :)
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3.4 now :)
IMHO, nothing to smile about.
Those leaving one star Google reviews are (adjective removed by author) keyboard warriors.
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I’ve also seen posts that it’s not Mike Irwin/hooked on adventure. Probably best not to mess with someone’s livelihood when it’s not 100% confirmed. That’s not the only hcm with that trim package
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If it wasn’t him you’d think he’d have chimed in by now?
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If it wasn’t him you’d think he’d have chimed in by now?
Of course he would have. No reason not to. I'd have a giant update on my facebook confirming it was not me and 100% criticize that sort of criminal behaviour and unsafe operating of a jetboat. But not a peep. Those folks that went flying on the back deck when he did the 180 on the river likely still have bruises.
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Those leaving one star Google reviews are (adjective removed by author) keyboard warriors.
Who cares though? It lets people vent their frustration without being actual warriors (which is what started this debacle in the first place). I haven't left a review but do appreciate seeing democracy in action. Or is it anarchy? ::)
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IMHO, nothing to smile about.
Actually it is something to smile about. Hopefully lots of people get involved in this story and destroy his guiding business. Has no right to operate any type of vehicle in the manner that he did. Excessive speed, almost certainly alcohol involved, in an area that is well known to have lots of people fishing and or swimming in the water at this time of year. And he is suppose to be trusted to take a family out fishing
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Who cares though? It lets people vent their frustration without being actual warriors (which is what started this debacle in the first place). I haven't left a review but do appreciate seeing democracy in action. Or is it anarchy? ::)
I bet anybody who has been attacked by an online mob cares.
I don’t think it’s appropriate to attack a business when we don’t know the whole story and or how it will play out.
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I think people should wait until the authorities release confirmed details before the public is burning anyone at the stake. Not saying it was or wasn’t him. Just too many conflicting stories for the general public to be drawing conclusions and sewering anyone at this point.
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Rufus has come forward in a Province newspaper article. Should not be long now before the assailants are identified and charged. I was unable to post up the link. Hopefully someone’s else on here can do it. Thanks
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Regarding the on line flaming and efforts to destroy one person's business; there were 3 people involved in the assault. No one mentioned but the one big guy wearing a dark t-shirt & holding a beverage can in one hand (possibly a beer) kicked Rufus in the ribs while he was on the ground. Rufus has said he threw or tossed a rock out into the water. He may have some impaired judgement but the people in the boat may have seen his intentions differently.
I agree that it is time to let the system sort this out. Perhaps the parties involved will be able to make contact. I can't see any of the 3 assailants are feeling too good about their actions in the cool light of 7 days later.
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I can't see any of the 3 assailants are feeling too good about their actions in the cool light of 7 days later.
I bet these goons would undoutedly all be laughing about it and giving each other high fives as they recall how tough they were if it had not been witnessed or captured on video .....100%
Anyone really think they would have any genuine remorse!?
Once a meathead always a meathead .... bullies through and through.... probably always have been
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Rufus has come forward in a Province newspaper article. Should not be long now before the assailants are identified and charged. I was unable to post up the link. Hopefully someone’s else on here can do it. Thanks
See 10 posts before yours.
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I bet these goons would undoutedly all be laughing about it and giving each other high fives as they recall how tough they were if it had not been witnessed or captured on video .....100%
Anyone really think they would have any genuine remorse!?
Once a meathead always a meathead .... bullies through and through.... probably always have been
Yup....If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....we ALL know where their fate lies.....never mind the cautionary stuff, the video don't lie that's what the judge will see.
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I find it so strange that the video even exists. Was the video edited at all? I bet there's another video of the boat traveling upstream when the rock was tossed......
I've also seen screen shots on social media of comments made by Rufus in the past saying he'd scream at and threaten an angler. I've also seen screen shots of the "victim" standing on the Fraser amongst jet boats. Therefore he knows the sound of a jet boat, which he'd hear many minutes before it came to his location. There's no way he was in shock or scared of what was happening when the boat came up river. He knew full well that a boat was coming. It's something that he's actually angrily posted about in the past, so strange that those comments are gone now..........
In my mind he's playing the victim card. Should the boat operator have put Rufus in his place like he did? Probably not, a good shove would have been sufficient, although still assault ::) If Rufus wasn't throwing rocks at passing boats none of this would have occured, the instigator here is Rufus.
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Victim card? I think the video and pictures of the "victim's" face speak for themselves. Regardless of whether any rocks were thrown beforehand, the guys on the jet boat did not have the right to assault him. Period.
I found it particularly distasteful that more than one guy was involved in the assault, and the third "gentleman" seemed to intimidate and prevent other anglers from intervening. This was a intimidation and bullying tactic. That much is clear. What these guys did was illegal. Period. What they did was cowardly. Period.
Should the "victim" have thrown a rock(s)? Of course not. Could a rock have caused damage to the boat or injury to a person on board. Yes. But there is absolutely no evidence that there was any damage to the boat or injury to the operators. To speculate and assume the "victim" got what he deserved is absurd. To conclude that the "victim" learned his lesson is absurd.
Rodney, you have approached this issue very reasonably and I know you reached out to the "victim" out of concern for his well being. You've also updated us and provided a forum for the members to express their thoughts. Thanks for your professional approach to representing all interested parties, and sport fishers in particular. Keep up the good work!
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Victim card? I think the video and pictures of the "victim's" face speak for themselves. Regardless of whether any rocks were thrown beforehand, the guys on the jet boat did not have the right to assault him. Period.
I found it particularly distasteful that more than one guy was involved in the assault, and the third "gentleman" seemed to intimidate and prevent other anglers from intervening. This was a intimidation and bullying tactic. That much is clear. What these guys did was illegal. Period. What they did was cowardly. Period.
Should the "victim" have thrown a rock(s)? Of course not. Could a rock have caused damage to the boat or injury to a person on board. Yes. But there is absolutely no evidence that there was any damage to the boat or injury to the operators. To speculate and assume the "victim" got what he deserved is absurd. To conclude that the "victim" learned his lesson is absurd.
Rodney, you have approached this issue very reasonably and I know you reached out to the "victim" out of concern for his well being. You've also updated us and provided a forum for the members to express their thoughts. Thanks for your professional approach to representing all interested parties, and sport fishers in particular. Keep up the good work!
What was said when the operator went to shore? Did Rufus say "yeah let's go"? If so no charges can happen, it was a consensual fight. Rufus did provoke the fight by throwing rocks though. If you don't agree with that then I guess it's ok to fish closed waters as long as you don't catch anything! It's ok to shoot towards people while hunting as long as you don't hit anyone! I guess it's ok to swerve at pedestrians and other vehicles on the road as long as you don't hit anyone! He got tuned up for his actions of trying to cause harm and damage.
I suppose it would be ok to throw rocks at loud vehicles on the road?? Oh, what do you mean no?! Remember this is the same "victim" who said he would scream at and THREATEN an angler for killing a fish........... This same individual that was scared by the noise of a jet boat that you'd hear for many minutes BEFORE it got to the pool he was fishing! The same noise he's been around MANY TIMES! Yes, this is playing the role of a victim! Read the article again and think of him playing the role of a victim, MAYBE you might see it then.....
I find it soooooo funny that everyone is literally sh¡tting on this supposive guy involved and he could sue people for libel if no charges are actually brought forth. You're all being Karen's and jumping the gun!
By the way, where did the FWR profile for Rufus go?...... ???
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What was said when the operator went to shore? Did Rufus say "yeah let's go"? If so no charges can happen, it was a consensual fight. Rufus did provoke the fight by throwing rocks though. If you don't agree with that then I guess it's ok to fish closed waters as long as you don't catch anything! It's ok to shoot towards people while hunting as long as you don't hit anyone! I guess it's ok to swerve at pedestrians and other vehicles on the road as long as you don't hit anyone! He got tuned up for his actions of trying to cause harm and damage.
I suppose it would be ok to throw rocks at loud vehicles on the road?? Oh, what do you mean no?! Remember this is the same "victim" who said he would scream at and THREATEN an angler for killing a fish........... This same individual that was scared by the noise of a jet boat that you'd hear for many minutes BEFORE it got to the pool he was fishing! The same noise he's been around MANY TIMES! Yes, this is playing the role of a victim! Read the article again and think of him playing the role of a victim, MAYBE you might see it then.....
I find it soooooo funny that everyone is literally sh¡tting on this supposive guy involved and he could sue people for libel if no charges are actually brought forth. You're all being Karen's and jumping the gun!
By the way, where did the FWR profile for Rufus go?...... ???
3 guys beat one guy and you blame the VICTIM based on the facts we have seen? huh??
You use "what ifs" as justification for violence. That's fantasy world Johnny. Our society doesn't work like that. And sure as cupcakes or courts don't.
All a judge looks at is if excessive force was used. Even the police when arresting a man cannot beat the cupcakes of him because of an alleged crime. But here we have 3 guys beat up one guy and put him in a hospital. We also have a jet boat operator who delivered in a crazy unsafe maneuver 3 guys to the shore (people on the boat visibly hit the steel deck). Why?
Facts. (reread it a few times to sink in). No boat was damaged. No one on boat was hit by rock. It's not illegal to throw a rock in the water in frustration. 3 guys pound 1 guy. No threats were uttered by the victim. And the 3 attackers and jetboat operator are hiding under the deepest the darkest hole in the valley refusing to defend their names.
But somehow in your world Johnny it's ok for 3 guys to beat 1 guy up based on those facts. If you stick with only what happened (not all the "what ifs" that are floating around) the crown will have no choice but lay charges against the guys who beat up the fisherman.
I'm just disappointed that some people actually have your irrational point of view Johnny. Do you own a jetboat by the way?
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There isn't just video evidence but several witness on both sides of the river and in the boat.
If this goes to court and trial it will be a complicated case. Potentially race is an issue as will be that one of the parties directly involved is apparently an individual with special needs.
Judges don't usually say a lot in court. They do absolutely listen to the evidence and testimony presented by both the prosecution and defense. If the the defense raises the issue of provocation (provided the alleged victim doesn't also get charged with assault which I think unlikely). The judge will listen to it and consider it. They also make assessments on the character and reliability of witnesses. They will also judge how reasonable were various actions within the circumstances of the case.
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I wonder what role race played in this incident. Would the guy have turned his boat around if the angler had been white? Maybe, maybe not.
Would the encounter have ended with shouting and a shove, instead of more serious physical assault? Would multiple people still have ganged up to beat the angler unconscious? Would the angler have been kicked while on the ground? Would the other anglers in the vicinity have been more willing to step in to deescalate the situation? Would the angler have hesitated to talk to the authorities out of fear of retribution?
Some of you will say that I'm bringing up race when there's nothing to indicate that it was a factor, but to me there are some uncomfortable elements to this story.
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There is really no need for a jet boat or any powered boat above say the #1 Hwy bridge on the Vedder/Chwk river.
I don't know what ministry would be responsible but surely whatever department it is should step up and address this issue.
This might eliminate a similar incident in the future.
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Victim card? I think the video and pictures of the "victim's" face speak for themselves. Regardless of whether any rocks were thrown beforehand, the guys on the jet boat did not have the right to assault him. Period.
I found it particularly distasteful that more than one guy was involved in the assault, and the third "gentleman" seemed to intimidate and prevent other anglers from intervening. This was a intimidation and bullying tactic. That much is clear. What these guys did was illegal. Period. What they did was cowardly. Period.
Should the "victim" have thrown a rock(s)? Of course not. Could a rock have caused damage to the boat or injury to a person on board. Yes. But there is absolutely no evidence that there was any damage to the boat or injury to the operators. To speculate and assume the "victim" got what he deserved is absurd. To conclude that the "victim" learned his lesson is absurd.
Rodney, you have approached this issue very reasonably and I know you reached out to the "victim" out of concern for his well being. You've also updated us and provided a forum for the members to express their thoughts. Thanks for your professional approach to representing all interested parties, and sport fishers in particular. Keep up the good work!
Good post....pretty much what I implied
Some very logical posts showing up here.....plus one silly one
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There is really no need for a jet boat or any powered boat above say the #1 Hwy bridge on the Vedder/Chwk river.
I don't know what ministry would be responsible but surely whatever department it is should step up and address this issue.
This might eliminate a similar incident in the future.
EXACTLY....
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I think the Canada Shipping Act is clear that boat operators have a special duty avoid areas where people are in or may be in the water. It's not up to wading anglers, swimmers or tubers to get out of the way. It's up to the boat operator and the law is they have to stay out of areas where people are or may be in the water. If this case goes to court I hope this issue is discussed. There is more than a simple if egregious assault. It is about public safety.
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Rodney, you have approached this issue very reasonably and I know you reached out to the "victim" out of concern for his well being. You've also updated us and provided a forum for the members to express their thoughts. Thanks for your professional approach to representing all interested parties, and sport fishers in particular. Keep up the good work!
Thanks FFM. :)
We are getting closer to that 10km/hr speed restriction on the river this week. The city is just trying to work out all the logistics on enforcing it with the RCMP.
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We are getting closer to that 10km/hr speed restriction on the river this week. The city is just trying to work out all the logistics on enforcing it with the RCMP.
Amazing news! Thanks for all of your efforts behind the scenes ;D
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Thanks FFM. :)
We are getting closer to that 10km/hr speed restriction on the river this week. The city is just trying to work out all the logistics on enforcing it with the RCMP.
So is the speed restriction their or not?
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What was said when the operator went to shore? Did Rufus say "yeah let's go"? If so no charges can happen, it was a consensual fight. Rufus did provoke the fight by throwing rocks though. ...
There has been more than a few "jail house" lawyers chiming in on a variety of forums. How can a 3 on 1 beating be a consensual fight? Pretty shaky reasoning from any standpoint.
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Yeah on the surface this looks like 3 white dues one with beer in hands, beat up a special needs marginalized member of a minority community causing major damage to nose and face.
Then you can also get it if the operator was negligent for being there n the river in the first place. Also for driving a commercial vessel in a manner that put passengers at risk.
But somehow throwing a rock and missing is somehow equal to all I listed above.
I seen an actual lawyer post “ disproportionate response”
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In my subjective opinion, if the boater is truly hooked on adventure, he would most certainly have foreknowledge of fishers in the water chucking their gear into the river. The 1st pass that I saw (can't find it now) was IMO reckless. The speed appeared to be beyond what was necessary to maintain plane. To me, it was on par with a jacked pickup coal-rolling a bunch of cyclists.
Certainly reputations play a role as well. History of intimidation and confrontation are definitely factors. From what I've read, Rufus is no angel however I think if someone actually wanted to hit the boat with a stone, it would probably not be too difficult. You'd probably have an added advantage if you were a fisherman used to casting at specific targets.
I think it was also reckless driving during the 2nd pass. When they pulled over for the 'beach-n-beat' you can clearly see a passenger falling to the floor.
I don't think applying 'conflict resolution' to the boater fits the narrative here. 'instigation' and/or 'escalation' may better describe the interactions that I saw on the videos.
Here's something from BC's Motor Vehicle Act that doesn't apply literally, but maybe worth considering in principle:
Careless driving prohibited144
(1)A person must not drive a motor vehicle on a highway
(a)without due care and attention,
(b)without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway, or
(c)at a speed that is excessive relative to the road, traffic, visibility or weather conditions.
I'm no lawyer, jailhouse or otherwise, but I seem to recall that if something can't be decided by the letter of the law -or if extenuating circumstances challenge- they use 'the reasonable person test' to decide.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+reasonable+person+test&t=vivaldi&ia=web (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=the+reasonable+person+test&t=vivaldi&ia=web)
Thanks for your efforts Rod :)
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We have a very incomplete story on the alleged thrown rock so it's best to stop speculating about it and see if anyone gets charged and if all or some parties end up in court.
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Regarding the on line flaming and efforts to destroy one person's business; there were 3 people involved in the assault. No one mentioned but the one big guy wearing a dark t-shirt & holding a beverage can in one hand (possibly a beer) kicked Rufus in the ribs while he was on the ground. Rufus has said he threw or tossed a rock out into the water. He may have some impaired judgement but the people in the boat may have seen his intentions differently.
I agree that it is time to let the system sort this out. Perhaps the parties involved will be able to make contact. I can't see any of the 3 assailants are feeling too good about their actions in the cool light of 7 days later.
The three people involved in the assault were of one mind, that is - 'no mind'. I can't imagine what they would have taken to become of the same mind. Rufus may have had some 'impaired' judgement, but the three goofs were also impaired. There would have been four goofs, if #4 could get out of the boat. The Rufus rock threat was over - which leaves a flat out assault. If it takes seven days for the three assailants to clean up and feel bad about the incident, they should stay away from the crap they were on - they can't handle it. See you in court, as they say.
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Thanks FFM. :)
We are getting closer to that 10km/hr speed restriction on the river this week. The city is just trying to work out all the logistics on enforcing it with the RCMP.
Waste of time. Its great that something might be done, but do it right. No power boats above the highway bridge is the only way to fix things.
Speed limit signs on highways do such a great job. Why would it be any different on a river.
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My meaning was that Rufus may not have fully comprehended his rock toss could result in such a reaction.
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It is very interesting to see someone think throwing rocks is worse than punching fist on the face. To be honest, they deserve hard punches on their faces to clear their mind. If their first reaction after the beaten are throwing a rock back to a boat, well, I take back what I say.
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A 10km/hr restriction is a good start. With time and a little pressure hopefully the powers that be will implement the common sense rule that no power boats be used above hwy 1 bridge. The irresponsible have no-one to blame but themselves.
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I still do not understand why their is not a powerboat restriction on the Vedder. I grew up by the Kitimat river 25 years ago. Their was always a powerboat restriction above the tidal boundary in that river which is aprox the same size of the Vedder. The only power boats that are allowed on the kitimat river are for fisheries management.
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Why is it taking so long for charges to be laid?
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I still do not understand why their is not a powerboat restriction on the Vedder. I grew up by the Kitimat river 25 years ago. Their was always a powerboat restriction above the tidal boundary in that river which is aprox the same size of the Vedder. The only power boats that are allowed on the kitimat river are for fisheries management.
back in the day, the launch point to transit to the Vedder( Sumas) confluence with then Fraser was right under the hwy 1 bridge. It was a bit of a trick to run upstream of that with an outboard. I guess so before jetboats were common there wasn't much need
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So I was reading the Chilliwack Progress newspaper and they say they know the identities of all four men aboard the jet boat involved in the assault of Rufus Mcintrye. Why the heck have there been no charges laid yet? What is the RCMP waiting for?
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Well, this is a criminal investigation so this will take some time. The police really need to be sure to get their ducks in a row, and their evidence and collection of evidence must be above board or it could be thrown out in court or rejected by crown counsel. Although the video alone looks damning, there's many "T's" to cross and "I's" to dot to ensure it will hold up in a criminal court. Plus, witnesses need to be identified and credible. I won't be surprised if charges don't come for some time...
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i was out with the wife walking the dike by the trainbridge yesterday. no fishermen at assault site. only three kids swimming in the water who had to quickly get out because of jet boat zipping through narrow channel. when he got around the shallow side of bridge heading up river he blew past a shocked tuber coming down. I have this on video, not sure how to send it. I was shocked at this behaviour from person who should know that people are in the water cooling off. too small a river and congested for behaviour like this.
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i was out with the wife walking the dike by the trainbridge yesterday. no fishermen at assault site. only three kids swimming in the water who had to quickly get out because of jet boat zipping through narrow channel. when he got around the shallow side of bridge heading up river he blew past a shocked tuber coming down. I have this on video, not sure how to send it. I was shocked at this behaviour from person who should know that people are in the water cooling off. too small a river and congested for behaviour like this.
Send me an email. :)
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what do i send it to? just fishingwithrod.com?
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what comes around is all around
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what do i send it to? just fishingwithrod.com?
info@fishingwithrod.com
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what do i send it to? just fishingwithrod.com?
Actually I just sent you an email. :)
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thank's rod. hope the file was not too big.
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This has gone quiet.
Anybody here any updates on this?
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This has gone quiet.
Anybody here any updates on this?
x2
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Any update on this issue. It seems a vicious assault on camera would warrant some action
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Any update on this issue. It seems a vicious assault on camera would warrant some action
last few posts seem to send the message that as a community we're not really sure. I assume its all pretty private between the individuals and police at this point, probably at the end of the legal side there will be some press about it. my assumption