Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chum Slayer on June 10, 2022, 01:58:42 PM
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I have fished the Vedder for salmon for a few years and typically stick to the mid river for red springs, however this year I was thinking of drifting roe in the canal or drifting prawns and jigs. have any of you done this before?
Thanks in advance Chum Slayer
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I got out once last year, early august tho I believe most of the run had passed by then. I think the second to fourth week of june are the prime times. I was fishing by vedder campground and had no luck.
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I got out once last year, early august tho I believe most of the run had passed by then. I think the second to fourth week of june are the prime times. I was fishing by vedder campground and had no luck.
I'm guessing you meant July, not June. The entire river is closed to angling in June.
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I'm guessing you meant July, not June. The entire river is closed to angling in June.
yes I meant july thanks for the correction
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Get ready for the gill nets in the canal. Good luck with the roe down there.
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Get ready for the gill nets in the canal. Good luck with the roe down there.
Timely to bring this up.
Perhaps someone such as Rod has some up dates on how this FN fishery will be conducted this year?
last year the results weren't as hoped and I heard they may switch to another approach to harvest fish.
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Not sure how this year is looking but the lower canal can be pretty flooded from the Fraser until a little later in the summer.
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I haven't been briefed, but most likely there will be a meeting in the second half of June before the fishery begins in early July.
The impact of this fishery by Sumas Nation is so insignificant, nobody should be suggesting that it'd interfere recreational fishing activities. The fishing is done by gill net, opening is four to five days a week by a team of two, from dusk to dawn. All of the fish captured were in July last year, a total of 53 chinook salmon were harvested.
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I haven't been briefed, but most likely there will be a meeting in the second half of June before the fishery begins in early July.
The impact of this fishery by Sumas Nation is so insignificant, nobody should be suggesting that it'd interfere recreational fishing activities. The fishing is done by gill net, opening is four to five days a week by a team of two, from dusk to dawn. All of the fish captured were in July last year, a total of 53 chinook salmon were harvested.
Thanks for clarifying Rodney
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The impact of this fishery by Sumas Nation is so insignificant, nobody should be suggesting that it'd interfere recreational fishing activities
I think some are more concerned with the precedent being set and the possible green light for gill netting in the canal during the much larger fall salmon run when the river is much busier with recreational anglers.The summer chinook run is much smaller and has had less success with netting, but I am sure would do much better in the fall with the larger mass of fish passing through and with that higher success would come higher effort.
Everyone is trying to hold onto that smaller piece of the pie each year and it doesn't help with more and more closed waters and the change in regulations to "no fishing for salmon unless listed as open" that has concentrated everyone from being more spread out to only being on a few rivers, the vedder seeing the major majority of pressure and then add gill nets down low that for many decades have never been there
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With the heavy snowpack and slow melt this year, the canal will likely be in full flood mode for longer than most years, and most of July I would bet.
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With the heavy snowpack and slow melt this year, the canal will likely be in full flood mode for longer than most years, and most of July I would bet.
That, plus I would imagine a tremendous amount of clay silt from the recent slides at Ranger Run will be washed into the river during the freshet.
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Don’t need to use red chinook for food fish this year. Should get there food fish needs from sockeye this year.
I support some early ceremony fish taken but don’t see the need for food fish with all the other opportunities this year.
Just my two cents, not worth it imo
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Food, Social or Ceremonial, Chilliwack summer red chinook are all hatchery fish so there is no big deal.
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What is the point of the effort if only 53 Chinook taken? Seem like a waste of time for how much controversy it creates.
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A waste of time to you perhaps, but quite important to those who are involved in it. And the controversy is only created by those who know very little about it and choose to only see the negatives.
The Sumas First Nation is exploring terminal fisheries that can be sustainable in the long run without having to rely solely on the Fraser River salmon abundance which is no longer an option on most years.
I think some are more concerned with the precedent being set and the possible green light for gill netting in the canal during the much larger fall salmon run when the river is much busier with recreational anglers.The summer chinook run is much smaller and has had less success with netting, but I am sure would do much better in the fall with the larger mass of fish passing through and with that higher success would come higher effort.
Valid concern but Sumas has addressed most of them and also demonstrated thir willingness to do this right. Last fall they chose not to gill net for coho, instead a pound net was attempted but it did not capture any fish. They then switched to dip netting just above the upper recreational fishing boundary, which also did not produce much result. Nobody involved expected it to be successful right away, these are trials which are providing lessons on how they can selectively harvest with success. I'm looking forward to new ideas being thrown out there at the meetings in the next few months, and really hope their fall fishing will produce this year.
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What is the point of the effort if only 53 Chinook taken? Seem like a waste of time for how much controversy it creates.
So it would be better to have the Sumas Nation return to taking wild endangered Upper Fraser chinook for FSC purposes as opposed to hatchery raised Chilliwack river chinook that are in no way endangered and are in fact stocked into the Chilliwack system for the use of all user groups?
I don't see where the controversy arises as it is a far smarter use of resources than the alternative.
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What is the point of the effort if only 53 Chinook taken? Seem like a waste of time for how much controversy it creates.
I don't see it as being a waste of time at all. I do some things (and I bet you do too) that, from an outside perspective, look to be waaay too much effort for the result I'm getting. But I do it because it's meaningful to me, or it's a family tradition, or it brings back memories.
Time and effort vs. meaning, tradition and memories? Time and effort will lose almost every time.
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So it would be better to have the Sumas Nation return to taking wild endangered Upper Fraser chinook for FSC purposes as opposed to hatchery raised Chilliwack river chinook that are in no way endangered and are in fact stocked into the Chilliwack system for the use of all user groups?
I don't see where the controversy arises as it is a far smarter use of resources than the alternative.
You and I both know that the harvest of one does not mean the stopping of the harvest of the other. Its always in addition too...ITs not like their Chilliwack quota reduces their quota in other fisheries. Tho I imagine if it does become a successful fishery for them other first nations that don't have the same opportunities might argue such.
If they could use hatchery fish like that it would only be a win all around. It also points to the need to mark all hatchery fish, So that other lower fraser first nations could selectively harvest them
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You and I both know that the harvest of one does not mean the stopping of the harvest of the other.
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no I don't know that and neither do you I suspect.
IIRC it was one of the rationals for introducing this fishery in the Vedder Canal.
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Valid concern but Sumas has addressed most of them and also demonstrated thir willingness to do this right. Last fall they chose not to gill net for coho, instead a pound net was attempted but it did not capture any fish. They then switched to dip netting just above the upper recreational fishing boundary, which also did not produce much result. Nobody involved expected it to be successful right away, these are trials which are providing lessons on how they can selectively harvest with success. I'm looking forward to new ideas being thrown out there at the meetings in the next few months, and really hope their fall fishing will produce this year.
It was definitely nice to hear about and see alternative and more selective methods explored and attempted and have also heard of some others planned or maybe have been even attempted on other rivers. Regardless of how things were done in the past, with mixed stocks this has to be the way forward.
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Any real reports of catches from this year? Fred's has been posting stuff but not sure if the pictures are from this year. Could just be propaganda.
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there were a few caught in the last two days around the lower 1 sockeye and three springs the biggest one being about 15 pounds. I went out again today to my usual spot, everybody is fishing the campground side at Lickmen or train bridge. All the fish I have seen have been caught on roe and corkies I would say if your going for the meat fishery then wait another two weeks until they stack up at a few pools.
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Thanks CS, im actually thinking of taking my boat out on the sumas to see if i can find one. Cheers
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Bar fishing might be an option with the high water
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FYI Sumas First Nation's terminal fishery for July 2022:
- 3 days a week 6pm Thursday to 12 pm Sunday afternoon starting July 1st - 31st
- Up to 4 Gillnets, 8” mesh fishery to target Chinook
- Non-retention of sockeye, sturgeon
- Select participation is provided by the community
- Location: Vedder river downstream of Keith Wilson Bridge to the confluence of the Sumas River into the Fraser River.
- Monitoring will be in place through the duration of the fishery and provided to DFO after each opening.
- Updates and fisheries planning are scheduled on a weekly basis.
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Went to vedder today, water clarity is upto 1 to 2 feet lower river, upper river (above Allison) is clear upto 3 or 4 feet, got couple of trout but no signs of red spring, didnt see anyone else catching too.
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Iv seen many red returns that were very difficult to target angling wise due to run size and timing. The last few seasons we have been fortunate to have decent to strong returns . 4-6 seasons back we had a really tough time even finding any fish for the first half of July . Later that season there appeared to be enough up top to my surprise .What happens when a poor return comes back and more fishing time /opportunities are being allocated to fn. is that fair from an angling standpoint on a 100 percent hatchery based introduced fishery ? Most average fishers can only harvest a few of these salmon a season and the surplus from the hatchery already goes to another band doesn’t it ? It’s okay to say no more . It’s not a bad thing to put the brakes on and just leave things as they are for a few seasons and monitor it. The problem is it never gets taken away once its given . The other option would be to bolster the hatchery program so there is more fishing opportunity for fn interests . Is that not doable?
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Honestly, at this point, anglers have nothing to worry about when it comes to getting our share of fish to catch lol... So far, in the first couple of weeks, Sumas did not catch any fish in their gill nets.
Tomorrow I will be briefed in more details on how their fishing has been going tomorrow, plus how the stock monitoring is going.
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Wierd I was getting fish with net marks on them On sat/Sunday last week. Is their program being monitored by somebody or is it just what we are being told they are getting in their efforts ? . The only reason they are having trouble is the higher water this season in the canal as well as the run timing . Your views aren’t going to change mine Rodney . We as anglers need to protect the few resources we have not hand them over for nothing . that don’t worry about it attitude is very concerning . Lol ? I dont find anything funny about it . Let’s not forget the sturgeon being killed in the canal a few seasons back. Is that funny too? I was on the reserve back when fn started netting sockeye on the vedder (even called it in only to watch a member from the band back there run up and warn the poachers so they could hide their nets in the dyke ). This was done weeks before that program even started . 4-6 years of fn harvesting and that run of fish is a small fraction of what it was. “Not enough “ sockeye were being caught so methods had to change and look what happened . I understand larger mesh is being used now and this is a different band / different program yada yada but the damage is already done . Poor consultation with angling community and bad decisions by a select few that should be standing with us. And by the way I am First Nations so if this comes off one sided it’s not . I’m just standing with my angling community .
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there are nets in the Fraser. Both FN nets and test fisheries. The Albion test has been operating for a month or more and the Whonnock and Cottonwood test fisheries have been in operation for weeks.
Virtually all the harvest that occurs in the Sumas- Chilliwack system is by recreation anglers. The FN take is a tiny % of the total.
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there are nets in the Fraser. Both FN nets and test fisheries. The Albion test has been operating for a month or more and the Whonnock and Cottonwood test fisheries have been in operation for weeks.
Virtually all the harvest that occurs in the Sumas- Chilliwack system is by recreation anglers. The FN take is a tiny % of the total.
Sorry if asked before; but do the nets negatively impact the fishing for reds on the vedder. I was thinking about driving up on the weekend. It's a long drive for low percentage chances lol
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So which fishery is harder right now? Vedder Summer Reds or Capilano Coho?
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With Netting effect on vedder It all depends …. Many of the anglers catching the most are seasoned fishers that have been doing it for a really long time . I helped a younger angler this season that has been trying to catch a red spring salmon for 2 years and no luck . I was able to help him get his first which was fun to watch . He was not a bad fisher by any means . And on years where the fraser netting is very prolific ya it hurts the vedder returns. I was told there has been lots of spring and early summer opportunities on fraser this season but the high water has made it more difficult which of coarse helps us in the vedder with our returns .
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I’m just standing with my angling community .
I'm standing with the fish for both communities which should be spending more time working together than speculating what each is doing. What you've said, I can almost repeat word by word with a few changes to recite what they have said in the last few years.
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I'm standing with the fish for both communities which should be spending more time working together than speculating what each is doing. What you've said, I can almost repeat word by word with a few changes to recite what they have said in the last few years.
Absolutely! Well said Rod!
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Sorry if asked before; but do the nets negatively impact the fishing for reds on the vedder. I was thinking about driving up on the weekend. It's a long drive for low percentage chances lol
I had the same question :D
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Sorry if asked before; but do the nets negatively impact the fishing for reds on the vedder. I was thinking about driving up on the weekend. It's a long drive for low percentage chances lol
ask someone else as I don't have a specific answer regarding nets.
Number of other anglers i have some ideas but not the nets. I don't believe anyone does since there is what, including this one, 2 or 3 seasons of experience? IMO a reasonable person would think there is no way a responsible answer could be provided...but reasonable persons have been in short supply for more than a few years, so you might have to wait a while before one has the guts to hazard a guess.
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Thank you for standing with my community Rodney.
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Today, I was invited to attend the opening ceremony for Sumas First Nation's 2022 Conservation, Guardianship and Harvest Plan. This is a five year long project which includes experimenting different harvesting methods for the summer and fall salmon stocks in the Chilliwack River, and stock assessment by various innovative techniques.
If you have been fishing the Chilliwack River lately, you might have noticed the tent station set up by the Vedder Crossing Bridge. This is the sonar operation site, monitored by the Sumas First Nation to determine how many fish are passing through that section of the river. The technology provides realtime images, allowing monitors to manually count the number of fish swimming by.
Other organizations which attended today include City of Chilliwack, City of Mission, City of Abbotsford, Fisheries and Oceans Canada, BC Wildlife Federation, British Columbia Federation Of Drift Fishers. Rod Clapton from BCFDF said to me afterward that it was very gratifying to hear Sumas First Nation acknowledging the support & interest from the recreational fishing sector in their initiatives & cooperation of anglers. I agree. This type of collaboration will be the solution to the many fishery challenges we are dealing with at the moment.
GENERAL-SHERMAN said that no matter how much information I provide, it will not change his views (on the indigenous fisheries). I think that's unfortunate. I go into this with an open mind so I can both learn what I do not understand and provide what others may not already know. This does not mean I will always agree with whatever is being presented, it just means I want to take the time to confront these difficult conversations, to not only secure the future of salmon for recreational fishermen, but for all communities.
I'll share some thoughts on the logistical aspects of this project soon. Have a great weekend.
(https://i.imgur.com/RdmmJfD.jpg)
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Well said Rod :). It would be cool to see some of the sonar pictures!!! Do you know how many fish they have counted so far this year ?
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Well done indeed Rodney..
Hey, they're in my spot >:( ;D
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Here's a spot that aired on Global today - sonar imagery looks good!
https://globalnews.ca/video/9010675/sumas-first-nation-uses-sonar-to-monitor-salmon-stocks (https://globalnews.ca/video/9010675/sumas-first-nation-uses-sonar-to-monitor-salmon-stocks)
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I'm very excited for my trip to the river tomorrow. Will update with my results. 8)
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GENERAL-SHERMAN said that no matter how much information I provide, it will not change his views (on the indigenous fisheries). I think that's unfortunate[/quote]. I go into this with an open mind so I can both learn what I do not understand and provide what others may not already know. This does not mean I will always agree with whatever is being presented, it just means I want to take the time to confront these difficult conversations, to not only secure the future of salmon for recreational fishermen, but for all communities.
I’m sorry if you misread my post Rodney but as I stated I disagree with this particular fishery as it stands, not First Nations right to salmon and ceremonial traditions as a whole (fisheries implies First Nations across the boards ie. Fraser and tributaries and wild runs throughout the fraser watershed ) which is not what I said . As I stated before I am First Nations . And while salmon and hunting is a large part of our heritage this fishery is a hatchery based operation of which is being funded solely by the recreational sector . I would love it if further funding would be approved by government to bolster the hatchery as stated before which would create opportunists for the sumas band . As I said you will not be able to sway my beliefs with what you have provided thus far. I may of miss spoke if I implied ever and I apologize for that . How much has vedder summer salmon affected your family Rodney ? I know my family relies on it . Something I have been a part of for the better part of 25 years . This is a one off high water season and the poor netting results are a clear distinction of that . Is there a number of fish that can be established for retention so we can assure that everybody can share in the harvest ? Obviously 50 fish as stated by a select few is too little . So please answer this question, what is the appropriate amount that the sumas band should be harvesting ?please give an accurate number or percentage so the angling community can know what to expect . This isn’t an open ticket . Could excess numbers of red spring smolts or fry be released into say McKay creek. It is already spawning grounds for( chum and cutthroat trout ) it’s upstream of barrowtown sumas dam which would allow First Nations to net upstream away from anglers and sturgeon spawning . Most of the spawning sturgeon is from the mouth of the vedder to the yellow gate approximately half way between mcdonald park upstream of barrow town. I really don’t know if this is viable as I’m not a biologist. There has to be better solution for everybody to prevent further conflict and improve access for sumas band .I know I am not alone as 90 percent of the fishing community shares my views . I’m not about the woke sentiment and standing on any side as i said I am First Nations, but actually solving a problem not complicating with more restricted access to a fishing community is a better solution. This has been the better part of a decade abiding by rules and regulations and closures watching fishing fade away without any hope in sight. And as the loss of the fraser river has had a huge affect on us aboriginal peoples it is not unfelt by the rec sector as well as you know .
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I’m not about the woke sentiment and standing on any side as i said I am First Nations, but actually solving a problem not complicating with more restricted access to a fishing community is a better solution.
What do you think I've been doing these past two years at the meetings lol...
I miswrote in the last post. I meant that you were saying no matter what I present, it's not going to change your views on this initiative, so I am not that motivated to keep repeating what I've written when most of the questions you asked in the last post have already been answered.
Federal salmon hatcheries are not funded by recreational fishermen btw, we do not have sole ownership of this resource. Here's how DFO defines our hatchery program:
"Salmon hatcheries play a key role in our efforts to conserve vulnerable salmon stocks; provide recreational, commercial and Indigenous fishing opportunities; and support stock assessment."
I'm not sure who you've been talking to, but majority of the responses I've received are very supportive so far. Not "let's give the Sumas more fish!", but "great to see alternative approaches are being attempted."
I go into this not because I feel sorry for the Sumas, but because I was concerned that my fishing experiences would be affected. Those concerns will always be there, but I am a lot more confident on the success of this now than two years ago.
Have I not presented the hatchery return numbers from the past five years? There are more than enough fish for the Sumas to catch without impeding anglers' experiences.
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Thanks for all your hard work Rodney … I really appreciate what you have done for the fishing community and the access and polarization of alternative fisheries to help bring kids into the sport through your videos .
Despite what my views on this topic are I know they’re are lots of people like yourself advocating for anglers and First Nations alike. I just don’t understand why we can’t get more funding for these programs . If more parties are to participate more effort needs to be put out . Does the sumas band have no netting opening for springs on the fraser at all or has there been openings this season? So there is literally no other avenue other than hatchery programs ?I’m actually ignorant to this as information regarding fisheries and openings is hard to find without deep research and direct involvement in these meetings .
I can’t really comment on definitions of hatcheries and interests as I can only comment on the experience of spending my whole life in the lower mainland and watching the salmon slowly become extinct .
What number of fish do you think is fair for sumas band ? Percentage or number ? 150-200? 2000?
Another question I have is how many fish are being turned into animal food and or for human consumption through the soowalie(sorry don’t know the spelling.) reserve program? . An actual number might give a better idea of how many are not being harvested or utilized for brood once the rec sector is done angling .
Also the news video portrays the vedder red salmon return of more than 10000 annually.is that an accurate estimate ? I would have thought the return to be more likely 2500-3500 on a poor year to 7-12000 on a really good year with the median return number being 3-6k
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McKay creek needs hatchery chum and coho to restore it a lot of the streams around Abbotsford used to have good coho and chum returns now a days you're lucky to see a spawning pair. On the trout side of things, a lot of these creeks are ok however there is room for improvement.
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Agreed… huge room for improvement . McKay creek had a decent return of chum a few seasons back the creek was quite full . and the cutthroat spawn varies year to year . Mink and otter have been a problem around the creek the last few seasons a Iv noticed a big presence and lots of fish dying pre spawn . Be good to see some trapping around the creeks and less dogs swimming and jumpin and digging in and around spawning grounds certain times of the year . Just ignorance on the owners part though . One of the only access points along that dyke to play fetch and let them swim . Maybe a sign to inform people might help .
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Thanks for all your hard work Rodney … I really appreciate what you have done for the fishing community and the access and polarization of alternative fisheries to help bring kids into the sport through your videos .
Despite what my views on this topic are I know they’re are lots of people like yourself advocating for anglers and First Nations alike. I just don’t understand why we can’t get more funding for these programs . If more parties are to participate more effort needs to be put out .
I can’t really comment on definitions of hatcheries and interests as I can only comment on the experience of spending my whole life in the lower mainland and watching the salmon slowly become extinct .
What number of fish do you think is fair for sumas band ? Percentage or number ? 150-200? 2000?
Another question I have is how many fish are being turned into animal food and or for human consumption through the soowalie(sorry don’t know the spelling.) reserve program? . An actual number might give a better idea of how many are not being harvested or utilized for brood once the rec sector is done angling .
Also the news video portrays the vedder red salmon return of more than 10000 annually.is that an accurate estimate ? I would have thought the return to be more likely 2500-3500 on a poor year to 7-12000 on a really good year with the median return number being 3-6k
Thanks. So the reason I get involved has a lot to do with just my interest on fishery management (that's my academic background) and I like how I am able to do my own work (website, videos), while almost treating this as a pastime. I see a problem and I can't leave it alone lol. I do wish more young people in the sport fishing sector would get involved. This is what I have observed in the past two decades... When I first started getting involved, I was in my mid 20s and the youngest one among those who are involved. In the last twenty years, I've only seen a few new young additions to the group. Today, I am pretty much still the youngest one! Some of the guys who are still involved are now in their 70s or even 80s! Meanwhile, I've seen a clear shift within the representations in the First Nation bands. Twenty years ago, the elders who were involved were not very receptive to new ideas. Today, taking Sumas for example, I am seeing a team of young individuals who are thinking progressively, and coming to the meeting with new ideas. It's refreshing, and people need to get behind it to make this work finally.
Anyway, going back to some of your questions. I'm not really sure if I could be the judge on how many fish is "fair" for Sumas. When this first started, the proposed quotas were quite high, and I was kind of shocked. They've been reduced since then and I personally am pretty happy with it. I have to dig these numbers up again later so will just provide a rough picture for now.
For the summer red chinook fishery, the proposed harvest is in the hundreds, not thousands. The total number of fish arriving at the hatchery each year is a lot smaller than you thought. In a low year, it's in the hundreds. In a good year, it's in the thousands, never over 5,000.
The hatchery release target of summer chinook is 500,000 juveniles. In 2015, the number of fish returned to the hatchery was around 500. 2016 was a low year, around 300. 2017 and 2018 both had around 800 to 900 fish. 2019, 1,500 fish. The returns in the last two summers were around 2,500 fish. This year should be the same as the last two, or maybe more. That increase in the past three years is most likely due to the drop in harvest in the ocean due to closures. Conservation concern isn't really an issue here. The hatchery only needs a few hundred fish to meet the brood target. So far the harvest by Sumas in the past two years has been way below 100 each year. This year will most likely be even lower unless catch results improve this week. The proportion of harvest between the two groups is pretty one sided and doesn't look so good on paper (rec group is open daily and has access from Vedder mouth to upper boundary, while Sumas is open from Thursday to Sunday, from Vedder mouth to KWB).
The fall returns are much bigger obviously due to the much larger production. Right now, we produce 2 million fall chinook juveniles each year, and around 800,000 to 900,000 juvenile coho each year. Last year, 12,000 adult white chinook salmon returned to the hatchery (a lot of these were jacks). This year, we will see an even bigger return because these are offsprings off the first year when they doubled the production from 1 million to 2 million. 32,000 coho salmon returned to the hatchery last year, which is also a huge number considering the hatchery only needs a small % of those for broods. The remaining fish become part of the ESSR (excessive salmon to spawning requirement) program which involves Soowahlie contracting a fish buyer to take the fish. The fish are sorted and sold, could end up at your local Superstore, or as animal feed, depending on the grade of the fish. The number of fish for this program is in the 10,000s. This is why I always tell others that it is ok to keep your hatchery coho salmon and white chinook salmon, don't waste them, enjoy eating them. If they are not retained, they'll just end up being sold.
The number of hatchery coho salmon being proposed for harvest by Sumas originally was in the thousands. This would not have made a difference on the stock based on the numbers I presented you above, but if that many coho are taken out beween September 20th and October 20th below Hwy 1, I'm sure you'd see a change in rec fishing experiences. Right before the season started last year, that number was reduced to a few hundred. A total of one coho salmon was caught last fall by Sumas.
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Sorry I meant total run return or 2500-12000 ish not what came back to the hatchery after all is said and done .I would agree that return is in the hundreds not thousands up top to the hatchery annually . I’m not surprised innthe last 3 seasons including this one as the returns have been abnormally high.Kind of helps paint a picture for upping the program for summer fisheries to create more opportunities if the mean hatchery return is less than 1000..I wonder what the annual take home is on the vedder for recreation anglers . I would estimate maybe 500-1000 max . I guess the run is smaller than I thought . With the estimates of sumas bands 1 -2 percent of the total harvest(on a good year last year being 50 ish ) with normal flows . I would bet 500 to be fairly accurate number for rec anglers and 50 salmon to be closer to 10 percent of the harvest .
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What is the actual proposed number ?. A few hundred doesn’t really answer it exactly .
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Yeah total number arriving at the river prior to any harvest would paint a better picture, and the only way to achieve that is to establish an actual counting/reporting system in the recreational sector. 500 to 1,000 being retained would be my guess too but in reality we don't really know, and we really should if we want to be taken more seriously when talking to other sectors about allocations and impacts. And that's kind of the reason of Sumas spending all the money on this. The band is frustrated that there isn't that accountability in the rec sector and DFO doesn't do any creel survey in this summer fishery. I'd be annoyed too if FSC harvest is not available for me while the fishery is open to the public without knowing just how many fish get harvested etc.
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What is the actual proposed number ?. A few hundred doesn’t really answer it exactly .
Here are the proposed target at the start of 2021. They have changed since then but I'll have to find the info later.
7.1 Interim Goal Chinook (Ages 3/4/5): 1000, Estimated for gear-effort: 50-250.
7.2 Interim Goal Coho (Aggregate): 7500, Estimated for gear-effort: 150-750.
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Here are the proposed target at the start of 2021. They have changed since then but I'll have to find the info later.
7.1 Interim Goal Chinook (Ages 3/4/5): 1000, Estimated for gear-effort: 50-250.
7.2 Interim Goal Coho (Aggregate): 7500, Estimated for gear-effort: 150-750.
What is gear effort is that rec anglers or fn angling ?
I would assume the lowered number is somehwere around 500 now representing 25-50 percent of the take home and 1/4 to 1/3 the average return respectively .
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Those numbers in the end of each sentence are not referring to rec. They're predicted/estimated harvest by Sumas.
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Those numbers in the end of each sentence are not referring to rec. They're predicted/estimated harvest by Sumas.
Ah makes sense . What is the sumas bands accountability issue with the recreational sector seeing as its new to this fishery ? . Is it an access problem? … This has been a sustainable fishery thus far and I’m curious the expectation for the sumas band for the rest of us if we are to share? Keep in mind we as anglers are all inclusive . Lots of fn take part in this harvest in the past with rod and reel including soowahlie.
I have seen this run move through in 1-2 weeks and be very slow fishing in the last week of July on the mid and lower ,to the last few seasons with the better than average returns more fish lingering in the lower sections being more accessible to rec anglers. Fish trickling through the system into Aug . How can the run timings be predicted so that a sustainable harvest can be achieved with such varied returns and water heights ? Certainly they were trapped in the lower last season not the rec anglers fault by any means .
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I'm very excited for my trip to the river tomorrow. Will update with my results. 8)
How did your trip go Darko? I've been waiting for your results. :D
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How did your trip go Darko? I've been waiting for your results. :D
unsuccessful Victor, it was my first time there since the floods and when I went to some of my old spots they were completely different or unfishable. I thought people were being overdramatic when they were saying its like a new river but now I believe. I didn't actually even see any fish tbh besides some small trout and fry.
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unsuccessful Victor, it was my first time there since the floods and when I went to some of my old spots they were completely different or unfishable. I thought people were being overdramatic when they were saying its like a new river but now I believe. I didn't actually even see any fish tbh besides some small trout and fry.
...and perhaps that plus the high water year and a smaller return of fish may explain the lack of success some anglers have experienced so far?
All those anglers and not one of them steps in to help that man. WTH ?
that was about as shocking as the attack itself.
BTW there were some reports an angler had tossed a rock at the boat and that provoked the incident.
Anyone else notice the boat had no visible registration numbers?
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unsuccessful Victor, it was my first time there since the floods and when I went to some of my old spots they were completely different or unfishable. I thought people were being overdramatic when they were saying its like a new river but now I believe. I didn't actually even see any fish tbh besides some small trout and fry.
I went there twice - unsuccessful, i covered good stretch of water, got two bites, thats all. Will be heading out again this weekend to check some other spots - atleast i get to scout
New river has many good spots, anglers can spread out even more this fall season.
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I've put the discussion on the jet boat incident into one thread so this one can stay on the red springs topic.
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I went there twice - unsuccessful, i covered good stretch of water, got two bites, thats all. Will be heading out again this weekend to check some other spots - atleast i get to scout
New river has many good spots, anglers can spread out even more this fall season.
Perhaps, maybe tho it will be the opposite. Some inexperienced anglers or ones that dont get out to the vedder often will gravitate to where they see others in the safer spots like lickman and vedder crossing.
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Here are the proposed target at the start of 2021. They have changed since then but I'll have to find the info later.
7.1 Interim Goal Chinook (Ages 3/4/5): 1000, Estimated for gear-effort: 50-250.
7.2 Interim Goal Coho (Aggregate): 7500, Estimated for gear-effort: 150-750.
So what was that revised goal number for 2022 ?
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I'll have to ask, but so far they've caught 9 fish this summer.
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I'll have to ask, but so far they've caught 9 fish this summer.
Do they swim though the gillnet?? or swim at night?
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Some of you didn't fish hard enough this past month.
Watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMItnEl9piY
(https://i.imgur.com/xMJogS3.jpg)
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I went out for my first time about 2 weeks ago and just swung spoons and manged to land 1 and lose another. Also went up to the hatchery there for the first time and was amazed at all the fish sitting in there!!
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I have some friends visiting from Holland for another week. Is the fishing for red springs still okay around mid river.
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Go upper (somewhere near the fishing boundary) if you want any shot at a not super ripe one, or fish super low for a early white chinook. Heard there's been a couple seen already.