Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Parasoul on December 06, 2020, 01:54:08 PM
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/sockeye-restoration-efforts-spark-hope-and-heartbreak-on-the-coquitlam-river-1.5806501
"Next year, the Kwikwetlem First Nation plans to build a hatchery below the dam in a joint project with BC Hydro. "I want to get brood stock from Pitt Lake or Pitt River and put it back in this system here, simply because the DNA is very similar," said [Glen] Joe (Kwikwetlem First Nations)."
Good news! More fish eventually! More angling opportunities will take pressure off certain runs and spread us out locally for fish.
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I think we are going see FN getting much more involved in habitat restoration, enhancement and management of this resource.
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Erm, why not use the Kokanee that exist in Coquitlam lake (and by extension Buntzen lake now) as breeding stock? Would that not work? They are descendants of the coquitlam river sockeye after all.
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Erm, why not use the Kokanee that exist in Coquitlam lake (and by extension Buntzen lake now) as breeding stock? Would that not work? They are descendants of the coquitlam river sockeye after all.
Good question. It's been trialed on the Alouette.
I read this on the ARMS website "The viability and authenticity of kokanee smolt “re-anadromization” is dependent on the stocks ability to adapt to salt water conditions, to adopt behavioural strategies to compete and avoid predation in an ocean environment, and to recognize and return to their native lake/stream system to spawn. "
https://fwcp.ca/project/monitoring-sockeye-in-the-alouette-river-watershed/
And this " Originally, through BC Hydro’s Water Use Plan for the Alouette Watershed, a spring surface release from the Alouette Dam has allowed for kokanee/sockeye smolts to migrate to the ocean from 2007 to 2016. The first surface releases occurred in 2005 and in 2007 the first adult sockeye returned to the Alouette Watershed. The 2016 Alouette sockeye salmon run saw 6 adults returning between July 19 and August 7, 2016. All six sockeye were in great condition and were sampled at the Allco trap location before being transported to Alouette Lake. Fork length measurements for all six sockeye were taken along with scale and tissue samples. The measurements indicated an average fork length of 60cm."
And from the report "A total of 318 adult sockeye returned to the Allco fish fence during the 2007–2016 runs, of which 268 have been successfully released back into the Alouette Lake Reservoir since 2007. Although the number of total adult sockeye returns is low, the data shows that re-anadromization of kokanee/sockeye to the Alouette watershed is possible"
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I think we are going see FN getting much more involved in habitat restoration, enhancement and management of this resource.
You can not get a project approved without getting FN approval. By that shear fact alone it means they have to be involved. Any government project in BC has to go through a FN approval process. FN's if they wanted to they could shut down our economy, they have that kind of power. Anyone that thinks differently has not been paying attention.
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I think Dave meant we will be seeing more and more direct establishment and operation of enhancement projects in BC.
The constitutional requirement for FN involvement in other projects is meaningful consultation. In the case of the TM pipeline the SCOC has already cleared the way for construction though some bands were not on board. UNDRIP won't change this. Undrip basically recommends that FN resources can not be unilaterally taken from aboriginal people.
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I think Dave meant we will be seeing more and more direct establishment and operation of enhancement projects in BC.
yes because when your paying them to do the work it's far easier for it to be approved sometimes it might even be the condition of approval. If government funding is involved often you wont even be considered without FN partnerships. I was involved with getting FN approval for a resourced based project and there first response was how many of our band members are you going to hire.
please don't use the TM pipeline as an example, the government had to buy the damn thing.
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hey ...I don't want to start an argument with you. :o
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hahaha fair enough, im for that!
what do you think of the project? I wonder if they will use a net pen in the lake to raise the smolts.
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Erm, why not use the Kokanee that exist in Coquitlam lake (and by extension Buntzen lake now) as breeding stock? Would that not work? They are descendants of the coquitlam river sockeye after all.
They did in 2017, expecting returns in 2019. Pretty sure that was unsuccessful.
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I think Dave meant we will be seeing more and more direct establishment and operation of enhancement projects in BC.
You're both right. There's no doubt more projects are funded with meaningful FN participation, and this participation will involve restoration and enhancement. The LFFA is already doing restoration work on the upper Pitt, and telemetry work on the Chilliwack and, from what I understand, are building capacity to do more.
To fish advocates this is good news.
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I imagine the hatchery is being located below the dam because of the restricted access in the watershed above. People have to go through certain health checks and other protocols to access that area as they do for the upper Capilano and Seymour.
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hahaha fair enough, im for that!
what do you think of the project? I wonder if they will use a net pen in the lake to raise the smolts.
I guess the real question is can a reasonable population of sockeye be re-established in Coquitlam Lake and if it can will drinking water quality be degraded. The Metro-Vancouver Water Board looked at these questions a few years ago:
http://www.metrovancouver.org/services/water/WaterPublications/Drinking_Water_Quality_with_Sockeye_Salmon_Introduction_in_the_Coquitlam_ReserviorOct_2012.pdf
Key findings:
The reservoir was confirmed as being of extremely low biological productivity (ultraoligotrophic), and was among the lowest in productivity of lakes studied in the south coastal climate zone.
the lack of availability of suitable gravels for spawning sockeye salmon. The present situation is that as few as 1,500 females could spawn with the reservoir water level held in the range of full supply level down to 140 m in the fall-winter months, and about 4 times this number of salmon if the water levels were in the range of full supply level down to 144 m.
A risk assessment that looked at turbidity, pathogens, contaminants and focused on aspects such as taste and odour problems associated with returning sockeye salmon populations, acknowledged that an escapement of up to 15,000 +/- 5000 sockeye salmon per year would be unlikely to alter algal populations or create taste and odour problems in the raw water. However, an overall risk that Metro Vancouver must address is that re-introduction of returning sockeye into Coquitlam Reservoir, resulting in a limited annual sockeye return, could conceivably lead to subsequent calls for additional measures (e.g. fertilization of Coquitlam Reservoir), to artificially enhance the productivity of the reservoir, and thereby enhance the annual numbers of returning sockeye. This situation would carry the substantial risk of degraded drinking water quality and would not be consistent with Metro Vancouver’s responsibility to provide clean, safe drinking water to the region
The allowance of a natural increase of up to 15,000 +/- 5000 adult sockeye would take a long period (one decade to several decades) and would provide a long period for monitoring of any potential changes to the phytoplankton community and any potential changes to water quality.
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I am not the one to speak to the logistics of this program, but do wonder why and what is hoped to be achieved? I am not sure what line of query I have, but I guess I wonder about the ethics and optics of this project?
For one, I know the Pitt River stocks are valued as a wild genetic strain in the system/watershed. Efforts to have hatcheries have been hit and miss on this system, and at the end, people wish to focus on the "wild salmon" in the Pitt. What is the Pitt's current run of Sockeye? I know that they are unique in North America, for they are some of the largest genetic sockeye. In addition, as I remember, they are the only genetic strain of sockeye that are immune/resistant to that fungus that gets on the spawning bed and can sometimes, impact and kill spawning sockeye in other watersheds. Poor at explaining it, but someone else who knows could probably explain better than I can. I guess I wonder how many Sockeye return to this system?, is this considered a healthy number?, is there enough to remove some of these fish and impact the genetic diversity?, and is it OK to establish what I am assuming what sound like a hatchery enhanced run?
If the Sockeye cannot get to the lake naturally, is it positive to put time, resources, and effort into this endeavour removing needed fish from another system? Key for Sockeye to reproduce and make it is passage through a natural lake. I am not sure how large or small a lake must be. I know in the case of the Weaver Creek sockeye, they are able to pass through Morris Lake, which is very small, but I gather in this case, this is good enough.
I do not wish to question this endeavour, but wonder if there is not something else that could be more productive long term. As someone who mountain bikes along the Coquitlam River quite a bit, I am aware of the Coquitlam River side channel, which I believe to be a fairly large Oxbow lake. With enhancement and the right engineering work, could this side channel be transformed into a small lake, similar to Morris Lake? I am not a biologist, so am not sure how large or what kind of lake Sockeye need to be successful. Further down towards Colony Farms, the river meanders and winds quite a bit on a large floodplain. This area has already massively been transformed over the years. Would it be possible to build a man made lake/wetland just below the old Red Bridge on Pitt River Road? Would this work or be enough?
Dano
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From what I understand, Weaver Creek sockeye young don't reside and grow in Morris Lake. They actually swim down to the Harrison then up into Harrison lake which for them is their freshwater habitat until they grown big enough to head out to the sea. FWIW there is also a population of sockeye in the Harrison that spend their initial year or 2 in the river itself. Such fish are known as river type or riverine sockeye and are more common in Northern BC but in addtion to the Harrison there is a very small population recognized in Maria slough
Where lake-rearing habitat is inaccessible or unavailable, such as in some rivers in northern British Columbia,however, sockeye salmon spawn in tributaries or main stem side channels, and the juveniles rear for several months (‘sea-type’) or at least 1 year (‘river-type’)in the river environment before migrating to the ocean
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/facilities-installations/pbs-sbp/mgl-lgm/docs/sockeye_transboundary.pdf
Also found you can add Widgeon Creek to this list:
Widgeon (River-Type) Sockeye are possibly the most unique CU in the Fraser Watershed. This population is adapted to the tidal conditions of Widgeon Slough. The fish move back and forth between Pitt Lake and Widgeon Slough with the tides, moving into the slough to spawn on high tides and moving into Pitt Lake on low tides.
https://www.psf.ca/sites/default/files/344553.pdf pg 87
from the same paper:
Populations that migrate upstream to rear in Harrison Lake, after emerging from the gravel as fry, include East Creek (rolled up into Weaver Creek after 1951 and may alternatively be named Sakwi Creek), Steelhead Creek (rolled up into Weaver Creek throughout the time series), Weaver Creek and Weaver Channel
p54
The only site with a consistent time series and a confirmed established river-type population in the Lower Fraser Area is the Harrison River (River-Type) Sockeye. The Harrison River system originates in the Coast Mountains and drains Harrison Lake. The mouth of the Harrison River forms a floodplain marsh approximately 0.05 km2 in size. The Harrison Rapids at the outlet of the Chehalis River provide an important control on water levels at low discharge (Rood and Hamilton 1995). As a result, the Harrison River is very stable with coarse substrate. During the spring the rapids are backwatered and inundated by the freshet flows of the Fraser River (Fisheries and Oceans Canada 1999). The rapids and lower portion of the river, which are used by Sockeye for spawning habitat, have been dredged to maintain a navigation channel (Rood and Hamilton 1995). At higher discharges the river spreads to cover the main channel as well as three others where fish spawn
pg 57
I'd also like to point that after the Cleveland Dam was constructed on the Capilano River in the 1950s, mature salmon & steelhead have been trucked about the reservoir and released into the river. Is this a sufficient precedent to do likewise with any hatchery sockeye produced for the Coquitlam?
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Another point is Pitt sockeye have been enhanced for years and are far from what most consider wild. They are large because their population is comprised of more 5 year olds than other sockeye stocks; the disease you mention is a virus, IHN, which had not (not sure if this is still the case) been detected in Pitt sockeye.
This Coquitlam project has potential, imo. If numbers return to the river, perhaps some effort will be made to get the fish over the dam and into the lake.
I'm all for these types of projects ... we need to start thinking outside the box on so many fishery issues; time for innovation.
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Ive read the article but maybe someone could clarify what the purpose of the sockeye hatchery is going to serve?
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From what I understand, Weaver Creek sockeye young don't reside and grow in Morris Lake. They actually swim down to the Harrison then up into Harrison lake which for them is their freshwater habitat until they grown big enough to head out to the sea. F
Weaver Creek sockeye are a remarkable example of unique genetic programming. After hatching, most stocks of sockeye fry migrate downstream to rear in their nursery lake for a year. But the Weaver Creek sockeye head downstream through Weaver/Morris to the confluence of the Harrison River, then hang a left and head upstream to Harrison Lake. Remarkable...
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Another point is Pitt sockeye have been enhanced for years and are far from what most consider wild. They are large because their population is comprised of more 5 year olds than other sockeye stocks; the disease you mention is a virus, IHN, which had not (not sure if this is still the case) been detected in Pitt sockeye.
This Coquitlam project has potential, imo. If numbers return to the river, perhaps some effort will be made to get the fish over the dam and into the lake.
I'm all for these types of projects ... we need to start thinking outside the box on so many fishery issues; time for innovation.
I think the damming of the Cap, Seymour, Coquitlam and Alouette were disasters for the Lower Mainland salmon and steelhead. One could add the Stave though I don't really known what sort of fish stocks existed above the Ruskin Dam (word has it there were summer steelhead) but there was apparently no fish access past Stave Falls. Much of the habitat above the dams is now underwater in all those systems. Still I'd favour whatever could be reasonably done to establish some salmon returns above the dams on the Coquitlam and the Alouette. The Alouette seems to be getting a sufficient number of adult sockeye back to make a recovery of some sort possible and attempts to reintroduce coho above the Coquitlam are underway.
While concerns over water quality is important, the practice here of shuttering the watersheds for a water source is not all that common. In New York State all the water reservoirs are public, or so I understand. In the long run we people here will have to live with lower water quality at the tap or use much less water. Our population growth here will make this inevitable.
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They can do all they want with hatcheries on the Coquitlam but when the fish have to migrate and live in that river they dont have a chance with all the siltation going on.
Take a drive up Pipeline Road after or during a rain and see for yourself what the problem is.
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They can do all they want with hatcheries on the Coquitlam but when the fish have to migrate and live in that river they dont have a chance with all the siltation going on.
Take a drive up Pipeline Road after or during a rain and see for yourself what the problem is.
The long term plan, imo, is to get fish into the lake where any progeny would rear for a least one year. The river is simply a conduit for sockeye migration.
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I think the damming of the Cap, Seymour, Coquitlam and Alouette were disasters for the Lower Mainland salmon and steelhead. One could add the Stave though I don't really known what sort of fish stocks existed above the Ruskin Dam (word has it there were summer steelhead) but there was apparently no fish access past Stave Falls. Much of the habitat above the dams is now underwater in all those systems. Still I'd favour whatever could be reasonably done to establish some salmon returns above the dams on the Coquitlam and the Alouette. The Alouette seems to be getting a sufficient number of adult sockeye back to make a recovery of some sort possible and attempts to reintroduce coho above the Coquitlam are underway.
While concerns over water quality is important, the practice here of shuttering the watersheds for a water source is not all that common. In New York State all the water reservoirs are public, or so I understand. In the long run we people here will have to live with lower water quality at the tap or use much less water. Our population growth here will make this inevitable.
I find the upper Stave very interesting. I know Hydro claims that fish passage was impossible before the dam but I just don't believe that. There was at one point in time passable water. How else on Earth did the Bulls, Crayfish, Pikeminnow and White Fish get to be in that lake ? I know they did stock Stave with Kokanee, Cutthroat and Rainbows but did it have a natural occurrence of Kokanee ? Hydro claims there is no spawning grounds suitable for salmon but the Kokanee do just fine in Winslow creek and Winslow lake.
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Circa 1919
THE STAVE RIVER
This river is crossed by the C. P. R. just where it runs into
the Fraser. The station of Ruskin, where there is a boarding
house, is right at the bridge, about one and a half hours from
Vancouver. It can also be reached by motor car from Van
couver, the road being quite good.
This is quite a good-sized river. It runs from Stave Lake
about twelve miles up stream. For a mile up from the mouth the water is slightly tidal and the fishing is principally confined to trolling and bait fish
ing. By the latter method very good baskets are to be had, by those who care about taking them in this way, right where it
joins the Fraser. By trolling in May an occasional spring
salmon may be hooked. After you get out of the tidal water, you reach one or two
splendid pieces of water. Then you must walk over the canyon,
through which the river passes. After that you will find more good water at intervals up to the falls, some six miles. Above the falls the fish are small until you reach the lake.
The Stave River has the great advantage of always being
clear. It is one of the finest steelhead rivers in the Province
for the man who has grit enough to fish in cold weather. To
get the best steelheads you should fish in January and Febru ary; they ran in March also, but only in limited numbers and
many you catch would be out of condition.
110 ROD & CREEL
It is a good river to fish for steelheads with a fly. Use one
either a Grouse and Claret or Jock Scott.
In July and August some good fly fishing can often be had.
The best flies are Tippet and Yellow, Tippet and Green, Royal
Coachman, Teal and Green, Cow Dung, and Blue Doctor; some times also the Stone Fly.
STAVE LAKE
This is a big lake some ten miles long and from one to two
wide. It is best reached by auto from Mission Junction, a
drive of over fifteen miles on a poor road. It can also be reached from Ruskin by trail.
There is no accommodation on the lake. It is an ideal place
for a week's camping. The fishing is principally confined to
trolling, but there are a number of creeks emptying into the
lake where big rainbows can be taken on the fly. The best of these creeks is the one that runs in near the outlet. May is
the best month for this creek.
There are also several smaller lakes which can be easily
reached by trail, some of thein are full of trout from a half to
three-quarter pounds which will take the fly readily.
The best flies are the Montreal, Grouse and Claret, March
Brown and all the Teals.
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Kind of amazing to think about it. I met Earl Anderson a time or 2 in mid 80s who was one of the few anglers still alive that had fished the Stave before Ruskin dam was built. At the time daily catches of 20 to 30 cutthroat were common.
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Good question. It's been trialed on the Alouette.
I read this on the ARMS website "The viability and authenticity of kokanee smolt “re-anadromization” is dependent on the stocks ability to adapt to salt water conditions, to adopt behavioural strategies to compete and avoid predation in an ocean environment, and to recognize and return to their native lake/stream system to spawn. "
https://fwcp.ca/project/monitoring-sockeye-in-the-alouette-river-watershed/
And this " Originally, through BC Hydro’s Water Use Plan for the Alouette Watershed, a spring surface release from the Alouette Dam has allowed for kokanee/sockeye smolts to migrate to the ocean from 2007 to 2016. The first surface releases occurred in 2005 and in 2007 the first adult sockeye returned to the Alouette Watershed. The 2016 Alouette sockeye salmon run saw 6 adults returning between July 19 and August 7, 2016. All six sockeye were in great condition and were sampled at the Allco trap location before being transported to Alouette Lake. Fork length measurements for all six sockeye were taken along with scale and tissue samples. The measurements indicated an average fork length of 60cm."
And from the report "A total of 318 adult sockeye returned to the Allco fish fence during the 2007–2016 runs, of which 268 have been successfully released back into the Alouette Lake Reservoir since 2007. Although the number of total adult sockeye returns is low, the data shows that re-anadromization of kokanee/sockeye to the Alouette watershed is possible"
This is from 4 years ago https://www.tricitynews.com/local-news/group-hopes-to-bolster-coquitlam-river-sockeye-3040039
it sounds like they did release 5k kokanee from the lake
"Last fall, the group collected and fertilized 5,000 lake kokanee [which have similar DNA to the migrating sockeye] for raising to the smolt stage at the Rosewall Creek Hatchery on Vancouver Island.
The goal is to release the juvenile salmon at the base of the Coquitlam dam next spring and, if they can make their way to the ocean — imprinting the taste and smell of the creek along the way — these specially-raised salmon should return to the Coquitlam River in greater numbers than have been seen in a generation.
"This is very exciting — we did this to bolster the population. We're hoping with even low [ocean] survival we're going to get some of these smolts," said Orr, who added that he'd like to see salmon return in the 100 to 200 range, which would be "spectacular."
However, the group is also working with another challenge: finding a way to get salmon smolts to migrate out of the Coquitlam Lake reservoir. Orr said tiny fish are failing to find the small outlet in the dam, some may be diverted to a pipe to Buntzen Lake, while others may not be surviving the migration through the outlet."
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It sounds like the use of kokanee was not very successful. They hoped to get anywhere from 50-200 to return in 2019 and 2020
https://watershedwatch.ca/eagerly-awaiting-the-return-of-the-red-fish-an-interview-with-craig-orr/
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After you get out of the tidal water, you reach one or two splendid pieces of water. Then you must walk over the canyon, through which the river passes.
I would have like to have seen those splendid pieces of water.
I didn't know there was a canyon under Hayward Lake. Looked on a chart...there it is!
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I saw a piece of it once. Before there was a park at the North End of the lake there was a short access road and a rough boat launch. At the time trout fishing was pretty good in the lake particularly in the outflow from the dam and behind any current breaks in the channel. We fished it in June and 1st half of July. Once we came for a day of fishing and they must have been doing work on Ruskin Dam because the top end of Harward was dry and there a 60 foot drop to a rushing river right below the boat launch. That drop off just a few yards out from the launch site was much deeper than we imagined!