Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: RalphH on October 31, 2019, 05:07:09 PM
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ARTIFISHAL:
https://youtu.be/XdNJ0JAwT7I
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Not so green.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/06/patagonia-labor-clothing-factory-exploitation/394658/
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LOL! Shoot the messenger!
Eight years since an audit found 'abuses'. SHOCKING!
Yet just today you've cross posted salmon farming industry propaganda marketing & P/R shlock articles.
How does a person become such a well trained puppy?
from your own link above:
the findings of Patagonia’s audits take on a different cast, a sign not of corporate hypocrisy, but of the near impossibility of treating workers well at every step in the production process, even when a company is genuine in its desire to do so.
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Thank you for comparing me to something so cute and cuddly Ralph. :)
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Fisher bob, salmon farming in B.C. started around 1975, and I was wondering if there is a complete list of the diseases that have been transferred to wild fish? I have been reading all the anti farm news for years and I am wondering how the farms haven’t been shut down with all the diseases that they have caused.
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I do not know Gord. My understanding is that smolts enter the net pens disease free. I would think the transfer is from wild to farmed. This is only my opinion. I would like to know if there is any scientific proof that farmed salmon have harmed wild salmon on the west coast of the states and Canada. I would think if there was any poof, the farms would be shut down.
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So if there is no proof of disease transmission from farmed fish in our waters why is there so much panic and outrage over the farms? I saw an ad today by an American outdoor clothing manufacturer that was anti farm and I started wondering, with the collapse of the salmon fishery, where we are supposed to get fish to eat? And isn’t it funny that salmon is one of the few wild sources of food? Almost everything else that we eat is farmed but not salmon which is funny because they can actually show transmission from cattle to wild animals of diseases like tuberculosis.
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/funders-of-hype-against-salmon-farmers
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I do not know Gord. My understanding is that smolts enter the net pens disease free. I would think the transfer is from wild to farmed. This is only my opinion. I would like to know if there is any scientific proof that farmed salmon have harmed wild salmon on the west coast of the states and Canada. I would think if there was any poof, the farms would be shut down.
To say smolts enter the net pens disease free is false.
Smolts transferred to open ocean net pens have not been tested to see if they are disease free so it is not known if they are disease free or not or what diseases they may have when transferred to open ocean net pens.
Recent court rulings have directed they must be tested:
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/court-quashes-government-policy-not-to-test-baby-farmed-salmon-for-disease
I would think if there was any poof, the farms would be shut down.
they are being shut down:
https://www.timescolonist.com/business/liberals-pledge-to-phase-out-open-net-aquaculture-by-2025-1.23963827
https://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/fish-farms-in-broughton-archipelago-to-be-phased-out-by-2023-1.23537659
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http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/funders-of-hype-against-salmon-farmers
90% of the BC salmon farming industry is owned by 3 Norwegian Corporations:
Marine Harvest: Total assets = 40.2 billion USD (2015)
Cermaq: Total assets = 15.42 billion USD(2016)
Grieg Seafoods: Total assets = 960 million USD (Oct 2019)
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https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2019/10/07/biologist-and-first-nation-devastated-dfo-will-allow-bc-strain-of-virus-in-fish-farms.html
Up to date. May be best to learn what it is.
I would be surprised if the liberals make it to 2021 😆
As much as you hate salmon farms Ralph, they are not going away.
https://seawestnews.com/as-canada-dithers-the-world-moves-on-with-aquaculture
https://www.seafoodsource.com/news/aquaculture/cooke-looking-to-convert-to-trout-farming-in-washington-after-atlantic-salmon-ban
https://seawestnews.com/ontario-farmed-rainbow-trout-gets-ocean-wise-nod
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90% of the BC salmon farming industry is owned by 3 Norwegian Corporations:
Marine Harvest: Total assets = 40.2 billion USD (2015)
Cermaq: Total assets = 15.42 billion USD(2016)
Grieg Seafoods: Total assets = 960 million USD (Oct 2019)
You make it sound like a bad thing. Ford, GM, Toyota, Microsoft, Apple, Interfor—- the list of foreign owned employers is pretty long. Why is having a Norwegian company own a fish farm different than buying food at Costco? They’re both foreign owners with local employees.
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You make it sound like a bad thing. Ford, GM, Toyota, Microsoft, Apple, Interfor—- the list of foreign owned employers is pretty long. Why is having a Norwegian company own a fish farm different than buying food at Costco? They’re both foreign owners with local employees.
Gord, you have this nasty habit of making sense. If Ralph says fish farms are bad, surely they must be because, well, Ralph is always right.
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You make it sound like a bad thing. Ford, GM, Toyota, Microsoft, Apple, Interfor—- the list of foreign owned employers is pretty long. Why is having a Norwegian company own a fish farm different than buying food at Costco? They’re both foreign owners with local employees.
Exactly Gord. It amazes me that a few people hate some foreign companies coming to Canada that promotes employment on one hand, and on the other hand they listen to foreign funded environmental rhetoric that wants to take employment away from us.
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/sites/default/files/Follow%20the%20money%20feature.pdf
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You make it sound like a bad thing. Ford, GM, Toyota, Microsoft, Apple, Interfor—- the list of foreign owned employers is pretty long. Why is having a Norwegian company own a fish farm different than buying food at Costco? They’re both foreign owners with local employees.
There was no 'good' or 'bad' stated. It is a concrete objectve fact offered as counterpoint to Fisherbob's Krause link.
The rest offered by yourself and FB are subjective are not facts as I demonstrated. Some of it is phrased in a deliberately misleading fashion.
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Misleading???? Alrighty then, lots more to come LOL
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/bcsfa-imbalanced-story-misleads-public
This one is a bit old but realy, what has changed in the US funded propaganda arena?
Patrick Moore.
http://ecosense.me/2017/01/10/issues-173/
https://seawestnews.com/us-agency-alerts-public-lies-anti-fish-farm-activists/
http://greenspiritstrategies.com/aquaculture-committee/
There is a lot more out in google land Ralph. Check them out with a click or two :)
https://www.nanaimobulletin.com/opinion/letter-to-the-editor-fish-farming-done-responsibly/
https://seawestnews.com/claims-by-anti-fish-activist-not-true-says-minister/
Personally I do not think the anti salmon farming circus wants to see salmon farming gone Ralph. Where would their funding come from?
https://fairquestions.typepad.com/files/follow-the-money-2.pdf
At best, the funding seems to bring some great entertainment with it Ralph. :)
http://www.farmfreshsalmon.org/who-invited-crazy-alexandra-morton
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you can argue with yourself as you have missed the point of that comment. Links cannot correct your phrasing.
I offered the link as I believed some folks concerned about the future of wild salmon would like to watch the video. I did not expect these people to agree with every aspect of it. We can all think for ourselves. I wasn't looking for a debate on open ocean salmon farming. If asked I will acknowledge there is no definitive proof they pose serious harm to wild salmon. Neither will I say there is no evidence of harm.
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I liked the video, I think it did a great job at show the damage of hatcheries and showing that they in some cases are worse than fish farms.
They also did a great job in pointing out the damage urbanization has done and how hatcheries have become the stop gap.
Although i disagree with some of it i found myself agreeing with a lot of it.
the point of the video
Hatcheries = fish farms
Someone of us have been making that comparison for years and have been ridiculed for it.
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https://www.intrafish.com/aquaculture/1761188/aquaculture-company-launches-counter-campaign-against-patagonia-artifishal-documentary
Has anyone heard anymore info on this catastrophic escape?
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/atlantic-salmon-caught-in-skagit-8-months-after-escape-from-pen-had-eaten-a-fish/
https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/nearly-50-escaped-atlantic-salmon-caught-in-b-c-waters
““Many thousands of (Atlantic salmon) have been released in an attempt to establish them in B.C. for commercial and sport-fishing purposes and there is no evidence that any of those efforts ever took,” he said. “Atlantic salmon, for a variety of reasons, have difficulty establishing themselves in B.C. rivers.”
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https://www.patagoniaprovisions.com/pages/salmon
https://civileats.com/2015/03/18/can-patagonias-new-food-line-revolutionize-the-salmon-industry/
It is a heart touching documentary.
Perhaps Patagonia should practice what they preach, leave the salmon alone and not put salmon on the world market. Seems to me now that it is just a self promoting Wild advertisement.
“Strange as it may sound, we believe harvesting and eating wild salmon in the right numbers, from the right places, can actually help save them. Thank you for joining us.”
Did Patagonia take too many from the Situk last year? Looks like their business model is already failing an not so sustainable.
https://www.patagonia.com.au/collections/salmon
https://www.doi.gov/subsistence/news/general/situk-river-close-harvest-sockeye-salmon
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I liked the video, I think it did a great job at show the damage of hatcheries and showing that they in some cases are worse than fish farms.
They also did a great job in pointing out the damage urbanization has done and how hatcheries have become the stop gap.
Although i disagree with some of it i found myself agreeing with a lot of it.
the point of the video
Hatcheries = fish farms
Someone of us have been making that comparison for years and have been ridiculed for it.
Hatcheries were portrayed in a somewhat simplified manner as they only featured massive factory hatcheries. The early scenes where smolts were dumped directly into San Francisco Bay to be devoured by pelicans were a little disturbing.
There was no mention of hatcheries only using wild fish for brood or community hatcheries which invariably are small operations.
There was little mention of salmon farms here and none in BC. Neither was there much mention of salmon ranching operations though the overall addition of 5 billion+ artificially produced salmon to the North Pacific. Many researchers feel the capacity of the ocean is being exceeded.
Salmon farms in Europe have caused massive damage to many salmon and sea trout stocks. Most sea trout stocks in parts of Scotland and Ireland have all but been wiped out by sea lice infestation directly caused by salmon farming. Escaped farmed salmon are fertile and spawn with wild fish. Some rivers in Norway have been so infested with parasites and disease transferred from farm salmon they had to be sterilized of all life & fish etc reintroduced. Exotic salmonid species from salmon farming or ranching operations have colonized rivers in Europe, Nova Scotia and South America.
http://www.fao.org/3/a-aj272e.pdf
https://www.reabic.net/journals/mbi/2018/1/MBI_2018_Sandodden_etal.pdf
I think we've been lucky in BC. One reason we have been lucky is the pressure various groups have put on Government and the salmon farming industry to act responsibly. In my view the industry have not been responsible corporate citizens. I don't think they can change given their deeply ingrained corporate culture. I hope BC follows the path Washington state has taken and proceeds to move operations out of local ocean waters to closed facilities.
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C'mon Ralph, if your'e going to talk salmon farming at least get your facts straight. Salmon farms didn't introduce parasites to Norways wild salmon ... managers did by transplanting Baltic salmon infected with Gyrodactylus Salaris. Norwegian salmon had no natural defences and nearly 40 rivers were impacted.
Washington State has not outlawed net pen salmon, they will be switching over to rearing rainbow trout in those same pens.
Here in BC we have our own version of sea trout, Cutthroat trout. I have never heard any reports of sea lice affecting them, have you?
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patagonia is deeply ingrained in the ENGO activist scene.
IMO this video shows their hand. Hatcheries = fish farms
Get rid of the fish farms and get rid of the hatcheries.
I recently took a tour of one of our community hatcheries. The hatchery manager said all the chum in the system are brother and sister clones.
I am not arguing for or against hatcheries but merely noting that its not hard for these ENGO's to build a case against them.
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Sea trout in Europe are anadromous brown trout Dave, genus Salmo.
Sea run Cutthroat and Steelhead are both anadromous , genus Onchornychus, distantly related to brown trout, more closely related to Pacific Salmon.
There is an on going study of sea lice and other skin parasite infection of sea run cutthroat in Washingston state. They accept submission of photos of infected cutthroat from other states and BC. Many anglers from Oregon to Alaska are reporting a higher incidence of such parasites on sea run cutthroat
The Gyrodactylus parasite that all but wiped out Salmon from the Rauma (and others) watershed were sourced from a hatchery. There is no 'come on' about this. My statement was absolutely accurate as written.
patagonia is deeply ingrained in the ENGO activist scene.
good for them! Patagonia makes an honest attempt at good corporate citizenship. We need more and more diverse examples of this type of corporate activism.
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Washington State has not outlawed net pen salmon, they will be switching over to rearing rainbow trout in those same pens.
according to the Seattle Times an amendment to to allow open pen farming of native species was defeated along with 29 other proposed amendments.
All Cooke Seafood pen leases expire in 2022 and will not be renewed (NPR). If there are no existing leases for net pens then it will be impossible to rear any fish in such a facility.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2018/03/26/597019406/after-three-decades-washington-state-bans-atlantic-salmon-farms
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/bill-to-phase-out-atlantic-salmon-farming-in-washington-state-nears-deadline/
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last i read it was still open for consultation
Canadian firm's steelhead trout farm plan under the microscope after salmon escapes
https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/canadian-firm-s-steelhead-trout-farm-plan-under-the-microscope-after-salmon-escapes-1.4668081.
"Cooke must cease raising Atlantic salmon here in 2022. The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) last month proposed to issue a five-year aquaculture permit to Cooke for steelhead. The proposal is out for public comment through Nov. 22."
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Sea trout in Europe are anadromous brown trout Dave, genus Salmo.
Sea run Cutthroat and Steelhead are both anadromous , genus Onchornychus, distantly related to brown trout, more closely related to Pacific Salmon.
There is an on going study of sea lice and other skin parasite infection of sea run cutthroat in Washingston state. They accept submission of photos of infected cutthroat from other states and BC. Many anglers from Oregon to Alaska are reporting a higher incidence of such parasites on sea run cutthroat
Thanks Ralph, I know the genus of both. I asked if you knew of sea lice problems with sea run cutties ... apparently you do ... any links?
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https://www.coastalcutthroatcoalition.com/
https://www.coastalcutthroatcoalition.com/user-input
https://www.facebook.com/SearunCoastalCutthroatTrout/
https://www.facebook.com/SearunCoastalCutthroatTrout/photos/a.771313866335361/1437419016391506/?type=3
https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/44867725_1397140637086011_7427237647338176512_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_oc=AQl_lX2GIJQCL5yaodWhAFbNDDIkXzs3SxsurmX4QbUi-RvjJKDZlzaYMau6nWvOMlm7-3h-pa7ku4lKPEcolETi&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=8cd6e36440be698dccfa30795afeea9f&oe=5E59A06C
https://www.facebook.com/SearunCoastalCutthroatTrout/photos/a.771313866335361/1352369714896437/?type=3&theater
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Patagonia has always had interesting marketing campaigns like the time they had the "don't buy this jacket" ad.