Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: liketofish on July 29, 2012, 12:47:22 AM
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Ya, it was crazy for so many guys willing to shell out $$$ of gas to go after an illusive fish. I got my fish pretty fast but most guys have been there from before first light and had nothing. Fishing Scales Bar is an expensive proposition. Very few fish, possibly getting a parking ticket (as there are next to nothing to park legally for so many fishermen), risking a violation ticket for fishing past the boundary (because of lack of space on the bar for so many fishermen), and now you risk having another ticket from the train people (because you have to cross their darn domain to get to your Fraser fishing haven). Probably much better off to check your back lane for that food-fish truck. ;) ;D
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Probally so Zoo like cause from what i am hearing,the only bar thats fishable so far. Combat fishing at its finest. Gives our sport a black eye in my books. :'(
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I gave up fishing the Fraser for Springs and Sockeye...flossing sucks! The gong show sucks! To many people...It makes fishing not fun...It is supposed to be fun. I fish out in the saltwater for them...The springs should be targeted by bar fishing or creek mouth float fishing anyways, flossing or snagging...might as well just swing a net out. By the sounds of things there won't be a sport fishing opening for sockeye this season anyways. Numbers are to low. I say leave it closed and let the fish spawn and hope the next cycle is better.
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I gave up fishing the Fraser for Springs and Sockeye...flossing sucks! The gong show sucks! To many people...It makes fishing not fun...It is supposed to be fun. I fish out in the saltwater for them...The springs should be targeted by bar fishing or creek mouth float fishing anyways, flossing or snagging...might as well just swing a net out. By the sounds of things there won't be a sport fishing opening for sockeye this season anyways. Numbers are to low. I say leave it closed and let the fish spawn and hope the next cycle is better.
So happy to hear you're in such an optimistic and happy state of mind. I haven't been out so far this year but when I do go out it's usually with 2 or 3 or 4 friends. I have the luxury of having relatives that own property in Hope so when we go we can spend as long as we like at thier houses, relax, recoup, fillet our fish and recreate. It's always, always a blast. My sis loves it cus' she has visitors she hasn't seen in a while plus fresh fish as we always leave her lot's.
As far as the bb'sing issue goes, give it a rest, nobody cares and those that do scream and shout and cry about it are not heard or listened to by the bbouncer's of the world. I know, I've been fishing this way on the Fraser since it was legal and I've fished with other members of FWR on the Fraser in the same manner. Do we have fun, Oh Yeah, loads of fun. Do we hear or listen to the screamer's of the world aghast at what we do. No, hardly ever think of them. If they want to waste thier time and life screaming about something thats legal and fun to do then thats thier choice.
But don't you think it's unethical and feel bad about yourself for fishing this way ? Oh Yeah, I'm so sorry everyone. Gee I wish I wuz a top rod like all you guy's. Not ! If you've ever seen a semi full of bird cages of chickens on the highway headed to the factory for KFC or seen video's of cow's getting butchered you would realize that bb'sing a fish is pretty mediocre compared to the atrocities that are happening in the world today.
Mikeyman flossing may suck in your mind but until it's made illegal by the DFO you may as well suck it up and take it like a man because it will continue. I myself never floss anywhere but on the Fraser and I never go to the Scale Bar. We have our own special place where few go and we catch truck loads of fish. We have more fun than any of you could imagine, shangri la really.
The season is just beginning and I'll be out for my first adventure meeting friends I haven't seen in a year, laughing and enjoying life later this week and catching springs like we do every year. All I can say for those so against bb'sing is live with it and quit your belly-aching and crying into the wind because nobody, and I mean nobody is listening.
Good Fishing All !!!
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Here we go again...ha ha...everything being equal, the strike of a fish is one of the most exciting parts of fishing...seeing that float go down...a downrigger plug ripped...the fishing rod bouncing, the solid strike of a fish when you are stripping your fly in...compared to bounce bounce bounce...whomp...snag....fish on coming down, get the f@#k out of the way...lol, I don't know... I have fished for awhile and tried so many techniques...and all I am saying is flossing straight up sucks...all the power to you if you want to do it, I just think there are much more rewarding ways of angling a fish. Tight lines and enjoy the show. It isn't about whining either by the way...I have a choice to participate, I chose not to. One less guy to crowd out the mass line of chaos.
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Well said Mikeyman and like you say, it's a personal choice. I know some people that like to ride thier bikes to work, some drive thier cars and some take transit, ergo', a personal choice. And I wasn't necessarilly inferring that you were whining and crying but you have to admit there are lot's of people that do whine and cry a lot about bb'ing.
I'm also happy there will be one less person fishing because it does get pretty crazy with people, specially when the sockeye is open but then again I fish the Vedder and seen just as bad a gong show, lot's of times. The Best to you Mikeyman !!!
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Ya, it was crazy for so many guys willing to shell out $$$ of gas to go after an illusive fish. I got my fish pretty fast but most guys have been there from before first light and had nothing. Fishing Scales Bar is an expensive proposition. Very few fish, possibly getting a parking ticket (as there are next to nothing to park legally for so many fishermen), risking a violation ticket for fishing past the boundary (because of lack of space on the bar for so many fishermen), and now you risk having another ticket from the train people. Probably much better off to check your back lane for that food-fish truck. ;) ;D
how do you put a price on passion?
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how do you put a price on passion?
Haha no doubt, if it was about trying to cover my costs with the meat I take home I would need a dozen more freezers and that still wouldn't put me ahead...
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Here we go again...ha ha...everything being equal, the strike of a fish is one of the most exciting parts of fishing...seeing that float go down...a downrigger plug ripped...the fishing rod bouncing, the solid strike of a fish when you are stripping your fly in...compared to bounce bounce bounce...whomp...snag....fish on coming down, get the f@#k out of the way...lol, I don't know... I have fished for awhile and tried so many techniques...and all I am saying is flossing straight up sucks...all the power to you if you want to do it, I just think there are much more rewarding ways of angling a fish. Tight lines and enjoy the show. It isn't about whining either by the way...I have a choice to participate, I chose not to. One less guy to crowd out the mass line of chaos.
X2
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I agree with Athezone. The Fraser sping/sockey season is now almost an annual festival/ritual, where many fishermen unseen for a while get together to kick start the fishing season. It is also a time when family can get out to celebrate fishing together (as compared to the tough winter steelhead season which is filled with hours of solitude). It is also a time when fisherman can truly say they will have some fresh fish to enjoy together with their family and friends.
Saying that, bouncing for sockeye is probably a no brainer for most fishermen regardless of skills. But bouncing for springs and having the confidence to take your prize home almost every trip you go is not something that can apply to the sockeye crowd. In every bar, you will consistently see only those few guys who consistently take their spring, even on most difficult fishing days. Fishing springs require you reading the river topography during the low water cycle to see where the springs will likely travel and stop for rest in a particualr bar. The bouncing technique is also very important even if it may be flossing, such that only those experienced hands can hook up much, much more frequent than a normal sockeye bouncer. So in that sense, bouncing for spring is also a test of skill. Geez, perhaps we should have a bouncing contest at Scale Bar, C&R only, the guy with the most spring hookups win and you all can suggest the winning price. :D ;D
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Are there any bars left where one can bar fish and not be crowded out by BBers?
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Are there any bars left where one can bar fish and not be crowded out by BBers?
Lots of them.... but you need a boat to reach them.
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Yep, Alwaysfishing nailed it. Sure wish I still had my boat because the worlds a great place, its the people that cause the problems. Seems no matter where you go if you don't have a boat there will be a fair bit of people. Thing is the bar I go to I know most of the locals that live in Hope and they know my sister cus' she used to own a restaurant there so were all friends and it's just Great to reconnect.
Liketofish is right on too, although bb'sing is snagging or flossing said salmon out of the 30 or 40 fishermen only a few will go home with one and navigating the underwater terrain is no easy task. I always say, "Anyone can catch them but it takes skill to bring them in." And he's right also in that it is an annual ritual, at least with the many I know. Family and friends, some fishing, some not, reconnecting and bonding once again and waiting to hear the shout of an excited fisherman saying he's got one.
Regardless of your feelings concerning bb'sing it is very, very enjoyable to many people, hence the crowds. And if the most knowledgable and discerning group (hopefully) the owner's of the fishing tackle stores felt that bb'sing was unethical and wrong all they would need to do to stop it is stop selling bouncing bettie's. But maybe ethic's fly out the window when the dollar walks through the door.
I wish everyone a safe and happy long weekend that is fast approaching and regardless of how you fish, smile, be nice to other's around you and be happy that we live in a world of such beauty and splendour.
Good Fishing All !!!
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It is to laugh, I love reading posts in the anti farm forums about people bithching about damage done by the farms, yet they are here just waitin to fill up the freezer..... ??? ???
I guess if the fish farms dont get em then the sporties and commies will.
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It is to laugh, I love reading posts in the anti farm forums about people bithching about damage done by the farms, yet they are here just waitin to fill up the freezer..... ??? ???
I guess if the fish farms dont get em then the sporties and commies will.
Guess you missed the part about fun, friendship and bonding once again, lol. It's not always about filling the fridge.
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Are there any bars left where one can bar fish and not be crowded out by BBers?
Hamilton bar
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k532/Armytruck2010/markspics048.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k532/Armytruck2010/markspics051-1.jpg)
Yours to discover 8)
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Hey look, real fishing :o ;D
Looking good AT ;) , beauty fish pard !!
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AT your camera date is going backwards ;)
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I also find bb'ing enjoyable. Sure, it may not be "sporting" -- if the fish don't, indeed, bite your offering -- but the COs don't ticket people for hooking fish in the face so it must be an acceptable form of angling.
Standing hip deep in rushing water, sun shining, wind blowing, comraderie, beers, hard fighting fish; good times all around. Worth the gas money, even it doesn't cover the cost of the meat (or lack thereof) ;)
Never seen any fights (verbal or fist) but then I've never fished Scale on a weekend.
Went today and got a nice red buck within an hour. Hooked inside the mouth, just like last season's. Right near the lower end of the bar where pretty much no one else was fishing. In fact, I was contemplating following the two guys that were fishing upstream from me and moving towards the boundary when: FISH ON!! Maybe 12-15lbs of chrome... Not even close to AT's in size. May post a pic later.
Gonna rig up a plunking setup next time and just chill out; hucking those betties gets tiring after a while :P
p.s. catching = hooking and landing ;)
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Hamilton bar
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k532/Armytruck2010/markspics048.jpg)
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k532/Armytruck2010/markspics051-1.jpg)
Yours to discover 8)
Very Nice. Alot more enjoyable then Scales Bar. ;)
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Beauty fish Armytruck, just gorgeous. I've tried fishing with a pound of weight before waiting eagerly for a bell to ring that never did. Even with my energy level I eventually would fall asleep along with most of the other fishermen or if a bell did ring we were so far away looking for agates that the fish was gone by the time we ran back, lol. I did very much enjoy the cammeraderie though, very relaxing and peaceful.
But if relaxing and peaceful along with an afternoon nap is what I'm after then I'll stay at home and save my money and time. Now if I can still have the enjoyment of people and friends and watch and see ten times the amount of springs caught and be moving and active, not bored and asleep, well, I'll take that anyday. Now you know why I bb and do not sit in a chair and wait.
Not that there's anything wrong with either, it's just a personal choice. And did I say Great fish Armytruck, it really is. I should show you a few of mine sometime.
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more enjoyable then Scales Bar. ;)
I don't mind the crowds. Lots of new people to meet. Saw something interesting today: a native(?) family was fishing just downriver from me. The little 8 year old girl got all excited and called her father(?) over, to what I assumed was a fish. Her father stood in front of her, facing her. They kneeled down slightly, hands in the water, and scooped up a fish; his hands under the head, her's under the tail. It looked like a big rainbow (steelhead?) but was probably a sockeye in colours. They placed it back in the water very quickly and it probably swam off. The little girl giggled in delight. Never seen anything like that before, other than in that movie Without a Paddle, lol.
be moving and active, not bored and asleep, well, I'll take that anyday. Now you know why I bb and do not sit in a chair and wait.
Yep, a few hours of bb'ing is definitely a great way to burn off some energy. Any more than that and I just wanna kick back with a few cold ones and wait for a biter; reenergizing for the hike out of Scale ;)
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When I go to the Vedder, I don't want to be there standing and staring at my float while waiting for a salmon to peck on my roe. You gotta get there at first light to maybe get half a dozen chances. If you go during the day, forget it, maybe 1/4 dozen chances. I am there to catch fish, not to be bored and half asleep because of getting up at 4am for those "legit" bites. That's why I will always BB or have my float depth just a bit longer so it will bounce on the bottom, which yields ten times more hook-ups than fishing with roe or spoons so I don't have to waste more hours to reach my limits. The best place to do this is either at the Tamahi rapids, train bridge or Keith Wilson Bridge, where we stand side by side and enjoy the camaraderie of harvesting salmon.
In the winter months when steelhead fishing, the water clarity can be just awful at times, like the Fraser River in July and August. This is when bait or lure fishing definitely become irrelevant because these steelhead simply cannot see whatever you are throwing at them, just like sockeye salmon as they travel through the muddy Fraser. The only way to ensure that your day is successful is by employing the same method as what you would do to target chinook and sockeye salmon in the Fraser. This is especially true if the water is high, because float fishing is basically impossible under this condition. The only way to fish is to bring out the trusty old betty and bounce in that turbulent water. I am there to retain my hatchery fish, so who are you to tell me how the fish is hooked in the mouth? If it is wild, I will release it and if it is hatchery, it goes home with me.
And don't you dare tell me how it is wrong. It is legal and I am targeting fish that I can keep. I enjoy fishing in this manner with the crowd where everyone's on the same page.
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When I go to the Vedder, I don't want to be there standing and staring at my float while waiting for a salmon to peck on my roe. You gotta get there at first light to maybe get half a dozen chances. If you go during the day, forget it, maybe 1/4 dozen chances. I am there to catch fish, not to be bored and half asleep because of getting up at 4am for those "legit" bites. That's why I will always BB or have my float depth just a bit longer so it will bounce on the bottom, which yields ten times more hook-ups than fishing with roe or spoons so I don't have to waste more hours to reach my limits. The best place to do this is either at the Tamahi rapids, train bridge or Keith Wilson Bridge, where we stand side by side and enjoy the camaraderie of harvesting salmon.
In the winter months when steelhead fishing, the water clarity can be just awful at times, like the Fraser River in July and August. This is when bait or lure fishing definitely become irrelevant because these steelhead simply cannot see whatever you are throwing at them, just like sockeye salmon as they travel through the muddy Fraser. The only way to ensure that your day is successful is by employing the same method as what you would do to target chinook and sockeye salmon in the Fraser. This is especially true if the water is high, because float fishing is basically impossible under this condition. The only way to fish is to bring out the trusty old betty and bounce in that turbulent water. I am there to retain my hatchery fish, so who are you to tell me how the fish is hooked in the mouth? If it is wild, I will release it and if it is hatchery, it goes home with me.
And don't you dare tell me how it is wrong. It is legal and I am targeting fish that I can keep. I enjoy fishing in this manner with the crowd where everyone's on the same page.
Thanks for the overview Rod, nothing we didn't already know. Nothing going on here folks, move along, move along.
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Lo! Fresh NERKA on the Steveston Wharf this weekend. $20-40 a fish!
Nerkas are even cheaper on Craigslist, and they will deliver too. some of the adverts look a bit suspicious though... "caught fresh today, $15" - I thought the only commercial openings were on the west coast of the island, that guy must have really hightailed it to get all the way from the island and put an ad on craigslist all before lunchtime.
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nothing we didn't already know.
Really Al? If there's nothing we didn't know already, you wouldn't have written such lengthy posts in this thread. ;)
The last post was just a fun jab of course, but just out of curiosity, would you be ok with those logics and why or why not?
I don't really care whether people go out to the battlefield, ahem, Scale Bar, and attempt to harvest their salmon with a long leader for those who don't already know (note, don't care and don't approve, two different things ;) ). It's perfectly legal and will remain so because Fisheries and Oceans Canada manages resource by numbers, not by which legal manners they are caught with or the quality of angling. Trying to suggest that it is wrong is a waste of breath and I can invest that time more constructively.
The problem with these casual discussions (I say casual because at the end of the day, these would only be filed in the internet archive and have no use when it comes to dealing with the issue at the management level), is that people look at it from the personal level.
"I enjoy it", "I keep my two socks and quit", "I only do this on the Fraser and will never do this in other streams".
Maybe so, majority of the participants in these discussions know exactly what to or not to do, but a good percentage of the participants in this fishery do not.
What you fail to see is the collective impact on the usage of resource and angling quality in this province. The industry promotes this as a family-oriented fishery and welcomes beginners to have their first taste of salmon fishing. For many, this becomes the only way which they know how to "angle" for salmon and they take it to other fisheries. For some, they'll slowly learn other legal and more preferred ways of catching salmon. Also for some, the stubborn some, they'll insist to keep catching salmon in stream with perfect conditions by the same method they would use in the Fraser River.
Is this a problem for streams such as the Chilliwack River? That depends on what you see as a problem. Is it a problem for fishery management? Probably not. They are, after all, only harvesting what they are legally allowed to keep by flossing. Is it a problem for those who know how salmon should be caught in small streams and rate angling quality other than by quantity of catches? I'd like to think so.
The attitude in my previous post is exactly how many so-called fishermen now think after participating in the Fraser River salmon fishery. This year's July fishery in the Chilliwack River is a pretty good example. The Fraser River has been too high for fishing and the slot limit discouraged people from going. They went to the Chilliwack River instead, where water level has also been pretty high. How did they catch their salmon effectively? Take a wild guess. It also wouldn't surprise me to see this Thanksgiving Weekend in the Vedder Canal similar to Peg Leg or Scale Bar in the summer again.
Your problem is not worrying about flossing being banned in the Fraser River. Like I said, it won't happen. You don't have to keep justifying your participation in this fishery and how great it is. As long as escapement requirement is met, recreational sector will get to enjoy catching sockeye salmon once First Nations reach their harvest quotas.
Your problem (or at least I'd hope that you think it is a problem) is how are you going to make sure those who floss salmon in the Fraser River will not floss in streams such as the Chilliwack, Stave, Chehalis, Capilano River?
I'm not looking for answers like, "I always try to tell people not to do it." because that method lacks momentum and will not solve the problem at this rate. I'm also not looking for you to tell me, "Why don't you do something about it with your website?" Well, I am, but I have also not been part of the cause of this problem, so ya, you deal with it. ;)
Finally, when I say "you" in the past few paragraphs, I don't mean Athezone. It is directed at those who are so passionate for the survival of this annual tradition.
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Your problem (or at least I'd hope that you think it is a problem) is how are you going to make sure those who floss salmon in the Fraser River will not floss in streams such as the Chilliwack, Stave, Chehalis, Capilano River?
Maybe a video {bilingual maybe ?} on this would help, that way whatever type of "angling" you/nina/whoever do in the said video would solely be towards forwarding knowledge in relation to this discussion to the general public that likes to partake in catching salmon/steelhead. ;)
p.s. I read the website sentence but I mean you've made a video on just about everything else so.... Go Rodney Go !!! ;D
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Really Al? If there's nothing we didn't know already, you wouldn't have written such lengthy posts in this thread. ;)
The last post was just a fun jab of course, but just out of curiosity, would you be ok with those logics and why or why not?
I don't really care whether people go out to the battlefield, ahem, Scale Bar, and attempt to harvest their salmon with a long leader for those who don't already know (note, don't care and don't approve, two different things ;) ). It's perfectly legal and will remain so because Fisheries and Oceans Canada manages resource by numbers, not by which legal manners they are caught with or the quality of angling. Trying to suggest that it is wrong is a waste of breath and I can invest that time more constructively.
The problem with these casual discussions (I say casual because at the end of the day, these would only be filed in the internet archive and have no use when it comes to dealing with the issue at the management level), is that people look at it from the personal level.
"I enjoy it", "I keep my two socks and quit", "I only do this on the Fraser and will never do this in other streams".
Maybe so, majority of the participants in these discussions know exactly what to or not to do, but a good percentage of the participants in this fishery do not.
What you fail to see is the collective impact on the usage of resource and angling quality in this province. The industry promotes this as a family-oriented fishery and welcomes beginners to have their first taste of salmon fishing. For many, this becomes the only way which they know how to "angle" for salmon and they take it to other fisheries. For some, they'll slowly learn other legal and more preferred ways of catching salmon. Also for some, the stubborn some, they'll insist to keep catching salmon in stream with perfect conditions by the same method they would use in the Fraser River.
Is this a problem for streams such as the Chilliwack River? That depends on what you see as a problem. Is it a problem for fishery management? Probably not. They are, after all, only harvesting what they are legally allowed to keep by flossing. Is it a problem for those who know how salmon should be caught in small streams and rate angling quality other than by quantity of catches? I'd like to think so.
The attitude in my previous post is exactly how many so-called fishermen now think after participating in the Fraser River salmon fishery. This year's July fishery in the Chilliwack River is a pretty good example. The Fraser River has been too high for fishing and the slot limit discouraged people from going. They went to the Chilliwack River instead, where water level has also been pretty high. How did they catch their salmon effectively? Take a wild guess. It also wouldn't surprise me to see this Thanksgiving Weekend in the Vedder Canal similar to Peg Leg or Scale Bar in the summer again.
Your problem is not worrying about flossing being banned in the Fraser River. Like I said, it won't happen. You don't have to keep justifying your participation in this fishery and how great it is. As long as escapement requirement is met, recreational sector will get to enjoy catching sockeye salmon once First Nations reach their harvest quotas.
Your problem (or at least I'd hope that you think it is a problem) is how are you going to make sure those who floss salmon in the Fraser River will not floss in streams such as the Chilliwack, Stave, Chehalis, Capilano River?
I'm not looking for answers like, "I always try to tell people not to do it." because that method lacks momentum and will not solve the problem at this rate. I'm also not looking for you to tell me, "Why don't you do something about it with your website?" Well, I am, but I have also not been part of the cause of this problem, so ya, you deal with it. ;)
Finally, when I say "you" in the past few paragraphs, I don't mean Athezone. It is directed at those who are so passionate for the survival of this annual tradition.
I know that this is not directed at me persay but at the collective group and I wish I had an answer for you Rod but I don't. The spring salmon opening years back brought on by the Otway group and their in the DFO's face, show of force has exceedingly spiralled out of control. It has spread to other rivers that hadn't seen it before and I feel the only way to eradicate it is to ban it entirely, and I would be fine with that.
But there is more to this than the few printings of words on an internet site that keeps this alive. There is to much money being made by stores selling bouncing bettie's and the general climate of people wanting to fish this way that keeps it open and alive. You can say, "Well you should'nt extoll it virtues and make it seem okay on my site because it only brings more people into it, and you'd be right." But by the same token if you don't want to hear or read the truth on a discussion board then perhaps you should shut the site down because then all you'd have is one sided bias.
I would love to say more Rod but it's late and I have to be up at 6 so I shall be happy to continue this tomorrow after I finish work. Wishing you the Best, nite.
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I think a couple of points in my last post was misunderstood a bit. I'm not suggesting that an end to "promotion" of Fraser River salmon flossing in this forum will kill the fishery. You and I both agree that's far from the case (many will strongly disagree however, because according to them the power of FWR is the root of this evil ;) ). I was just suggesting that it's silly to keep explaining why those who floss for salmon in the Fraser do it. If you've noticed, our resident vocal opponent Chris hasn't bothered persuading people to stop doing it for a couple of years now (beside the few pokes at times in his reports ;) ). These discussions on whether flossing is legal or illegal is pretty pointless because at the end of the day, you simply have to agree to disagree. The fishery is designated legal and if those want to take it to other rivers, it's also legal. You're free to floss in the Vedder too if you wish so what I want to know from you all is:
How do you allow the Fraser River flossery without affecting the angling quality of other tributaries by keeping the technique away even though by definition it is legal to use in all waters?
Also, quite often some suggest the discussion forum is bias, that was suggested a couple of times in the past day (from either side of the issues). This is far from the case. If it was, these threads wouldn't keep popping up every year. ;)
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I think a couple of points in my last post was misunderstood a bit. I'm not suggesting that an end to "promotion" of Fraser River salmon flossing in this forum will kill the fishery. You and I both agree that's far from the case (many will strongly disagree however, because according to them the power of FWR is the root of this evil ;) ). I was just suggesting that it's silly to keep explaining why those who floss for salmon in the Fraser do it. If you've noticed, our resident vocal opponent Chris hasn't bothered persuading people to stop doing it for a couple of years now (beside the few pokes at times in his reports ;) ). These discussions on whether flossing is legal or illegal is pretty pointless because at the end of the day, you simply have to agree to disagree. The fishery is designated legal and if those want to take it to other rivers, it's also legal. You're free to floss in the Vedder too if you wish so what I want to know from you all is:
How do you allow the Fraser River flossery without affecting the angling quality of other tributaries by keeping the technique away even though by definition it is legal to use in all waters?
Also, quite often some suggest the discussion forum is bias, that was suggested a couple of times in the past day (from either side of the issues). This is far from the case. If it was, these threads wouldn't keep popping up every year. ;)
Morning All, I can't type or say much as work is awaiting my presence but I would like to say that Rodney makes some very, very good points. The one point about whether flossing is legal or not is pointless to talk about because we all know that it's legal and allowed, how to stop it's spread is the million dollar question. And without giving my answer now I shall take the day and think of my response and answer tonite.
And certainly anyone with an ounce of sense would realize that the power of FWR is not the root of this evil, in fact FWR is one of if not the best fishing sites on the internet in my opinion. I would just like to say though Rodney that it does exhibit a certain bias when the topic is moved and the title changed from Scale Bar Zoo to 2012 Floss Out. Moving it was fine but the title change clearly shows your disdain.
Must go fellow fishermen as we all become fellow worker bee's once the clock hits 8 AM. Stay Happy Everyone !!!!
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I know that this is not directed at me persay but at the collective group and I wish I had an answer for you Rod but I don't. The spring salmon opening years back brought on by the Otway group and their in the DFO's face, show of force has exceedingly spiralled out of control. It has spread to other rivers that hadn't seen it before and I feel the only way to eradicate it is to ban it entirely, and I would be fine with that.
But there is more to this than the few printings of words on an internet site that keeps this alive. There is to much money being made by stores selling bouncing bettie's and the general climate of people wanting to fish this way that keeps it open and alive. You can say, "Well you should'nt extoll it virtues and make it seem okay on my site because it only brings more people into it, and you'd be right." But by the same token if you don't want to hear or read the truth on a discussion board then perhaps you should shut the site down because then all you'd have is one sided bias.
I would love to say more Rod but it's late and I have to be up at 6 so I shall be happy to continue this tomorrow after I finish work. Wishing you the Best, nite.
I don't think Bill Otway had flossing in mind when he lobbied to have Spring Salmon Retention on the River.
Also its not one-sided bias against flossing. This site is called "Fishing with Rod", not "Flossing with Rod" or "Harvesting with Rod" or "Catching with Rod". The site is primarily dedicated to the promotion of fishing in a sporting manner (enticing the fish to bite). Rod spends lots of time and energy organizing events like Fish for the future so that kids can learn and participate in "Sports" fishing.
As much skill that some think it takes to floss a spring or sockeye out of the Fraser, I still don't consider it "Sportsfishing". Its a harvest pure and simple. I'm not totally against harvesting surplus fish by means of flossing just so long that it is promoted that way as a means to put fish on the table and nothing else. Therein lies the problem. Many who partake in this fishery feel that they are fishing heroes and take this to other rivers like the Vedder and Chehalis. But you might say so what? We are harvesting fish out of the Vedder and Chehalis as well right? Well the difference is that there are others in the river fishing in a sporting manner for fish that actually bite and the method of flossing used will frequently affect how they do.
Those are my opinions for what its worth.
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And certainly anyone with an ounce of sense would realize that the power of FWR is not the root of this evil, in fact FWR is one of if not the best fishing sites on the internet in my opinion. I would just like to say though Rodney that it does exhibit a certain bias when the topic is moved and the title changed from Scale Bar Zoo to 2012 Floss Out. Moving it was fine but the title change clearly shows your disdain.
I moved the topic for a couple of reasons:
It was no longer a fishing report and will turn into a lengthy thread, which puts the report archive out of order.
The fishing report section is only available to limited number of participants. Anyone public or any account has less than 50 posts, or not a subscriber can not see it. It was more relevant to move it to the fishing-related issue section so others have a chance to wade in their thoughts too.
What would you like the title to be called? ;) I can change that for you. I didn't know what to call it and picked a title with some humour as I usually do. It wasn't a conscious decision to demonstrate my view against flossing.
I personally, like all humans, can be bias at times. The forum itself is not, at least we try to keep it that way. This is why I got my moderators instead of just me doing it. A good example was the shark fin soup discussion, where I told dragonspeed that I no longer want to be moderating that thread when participating in the discussion so he should be the one doing all the editing.
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Flossing is just a way for an inexperienced and uneducated angler to fill the freezer. Fishing is fooling a fish to bite pure and simple. Flossing is snagging, and is at the same level as netting, only you get to try to reel the fish in, and if you are lucky it will be hooked in the side and you will have an even better fight! The guy probably bonks the fish anyways. You tell me there isn't a problem here with it, if anyone has witness the crap going on at the Fraser or Vedder the last 10 seasons, you should disagree. Long leaders, drift drift, set the hook every drift, snagged fish, oh bonk it anyways. I would say there was 10% fishing ethically, 90% had no idea. I have participated in bouncing when it first gained popularity, and now, after putting the time into other methods of fishing, bbing is the least rewarding. Barbed hooks, guys not tagging their spring and coming back down a couple hours later, long leaders, snags, loosing lead all day, sore arms, casting out of turn, major tangle ups, shoulder to shoulder, bickering, swearing, guy getting sacked when the fish spat the hook, that was funny, not for him. Fishing out of boundary, keeping foul hooked fish. Leaving garbage all over the river, people killing the wrong fish that have no retention...people going over limits, the list goes on, and now this happens on rivers with great visibility where fish bite regularly and aggressively. Guy kills wild steelhead, swearing it is a spring. GARBAGE EVERYWHERE! Oh and don't you just love it when you find your own little chunk of real state away from the crowd, you start banging off coho after coho, short floating good roe, and then...10 guys with 10 ft leaders crowd you out, okay all yours, I go over there, repeat...10 more crowd, aw-some! I took the time to show the very few that would listen how to shorten up, set up correctly, and it was quite rewarding to see them bang off fish. They were happy to and quite amazed that their friends had showed them how to fish and floss and that is the way we fish out here. BBing is taking over and destroying the ethics of fishing on our local rivers.
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Flossing is just a way for an inexperienced and uneducated angler to fill the freezer. Fishing is fooling a fish to bite pure and simple. Flossing is snagging, and is at the same level as netting, only you get to try to reel the fish in, and if you are lucky it will be hooked in the side and you will have an even better fight! The guy probably bonks the fish anyways. You tell me there isn't a problem here with it, if anyone has witness the crap going on at the Fraser or Vedder the last 10 seasons, you should disagree. Long leaders, drift drift, set the hook every drift, snagged fish, oh bonk it anyways. I would say there was 10% fishing ethically, 90% had no idea. I have participated in bouncing when it first gained popularity, and now, after putting the time into other methods of fishing, bbing is the least rewarding. Barbed hooks, guys not tagging their spring and coming back down a couple hours later, long leaders, snags, loosing lead all day, sore arms, casting out of turn, major tangle ups, shoulder to shoulder, bickering, swearing, guy getting sacked when the fish spat the hook, that was funny, not for him. Fishing out of boundary, keeping foul hooked fish. Leaving garbage all over the river, people killing the wrong fish that have no retention...people going over limits, the list goes on, and now this happens on rivers with great visibility where fish bite regularly and aggressively. Guy kills wild steelhead, swearing it is a spring. GARBAGE EVERYWHERE! Oh and don't you just love it when you find your own little chunk of real state away from the crowd, you start banging off coho after coho, short floating good roe, and then...10 guys with 10 ft leaders crowd you out, okay all yours, I go over there, repeat...10 more crowd, aw-some! I took the time to show the very few that would listen how to shorten up, set up correctly, and it was quite rewarding to see them bang off fish. They were happy to and quite amazed that their friends had showed them how to fish and floss and that is the way we fish out here. BBing is taking over and destroying the ethics of fishing on our local rivers.
Awesome post and so true, if I cant catch em fishing Ill snag..oooops floss em.
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You can apply most of your descriptions above to the Vedder too. In fact it is worse at the Vedder. The crowd, the garbage, the snagging (yes, intentional snagging by jerking the rod towards the end of each drift when fishing the rapids), the crowded fish holes with people fishing shoulder to shoulder, and hooks catching the wrong body part of crowded fish even by float fishing or flyfishing. In terms of damaging a fish, there is nothing worse than foul hooking it and fighting it in a rapid, and letting the hook tear apart the flesh of the fish, or letting it tire out to near death because of the prolong battle of landing a foul hooked fish. These foul hookings happen so much more often on the Vedder than bottom bouncing on the Fraser. In a day of bb the Fraser, you rarely see a foul hooked fish. But if you are fishing a crowded fish hole on the Vedder, there will be a foul hooked fish every few minutes. Why don't you go to Tamahi or even the bottom of Keith Wilson Bridge & take a look. In terms of bonking the wrong fish, or keeping over the limit, is the Vedder exempt from these problems? Why are we still allowing the Vedder fishery open then based on your argument? These problems are not a result of the location or method of fishing. They are created by fishermen, a human issue. Most of the time, bbers know the game of crowded fishing and they respect and tolerate crowding. There is usually a open spirit about it and people look past these issues to have a good time out in the bars. For someone who don't like crowd, they can buy a boat and hide away to some islands on the Fraser. We live in a free society and must learn to respect other's legal choices.
Regarding the issue of bbers doing bb in the other system, I think the economics of bb (expensive) will teach new fishermen very fast that they simply cannot afford doing that in a smaller system. The weaker flow of a smaller system plus its rocky river bed simply will eat up their betties in a hurry that they will be looking out for a better method fast. When a newbie fisherman sees a floater catching fish more often and with less expensive equipment, he will be switching over to the better methods. But of course, you will see the 1st year or 2nd year greenies doing their bb start here & there, particularly at some meat holes. DFO should send more COs to those spots to ticket those keeping a fouled hook fish. That should serve a warning to these newbies and will motivate them to switch to method better suited to these smaller systems.
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Liketofish, you should be either a politician or a lobbyist if you aren't one already.
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Politician? The way they get paid for their pension, it is surely tempting. ;D
Lobbyist? Rodney is a much better candidate then most members here. Well rounded knowledge and education, and well grounded personality.
Saying that, I will jump in the lobbying band wagon if it comes to sharks fin soup ;)
Well, better stay out of personal thing when the discussion is about "to floss or not to floss" :D
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Well rounded knowledge and education, and well grounded personality.
No... Those aren't the qualities I see in a lobbyist...
Again, I ask the question that never seems to get answered.
How do you allow the Fraser River flossery without affecting the angling quality of other tributaries by keeping the technique away even though by definition it is legal to use in all waters?
Athezone has given a thoughtful answer, which is there isn't an immediate solution.
liketofish is still busy defending a fishery that is already legal by maintaining that it hardly has any impact on the resource or angling quality and diverting all problems to other fishing methods.
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I don't think Bill Otway had flossing in mind when he lobbied to have Spring Salmon Retention on the River.
You just might want to review your notes on Bill Otway or better yet just do a search on FWR for "Letter from Bill Otway to Paul Ryall" posted on FWR on August 26, 2009.
And Rod, I understood exactly why you moved it and I certainly don't have any problem with it at all. Still don't know why you didn't just keep the same title but it's your board and you can do what pleases you.
Mikeyman say's "Flossing is just a way for an inexperienced and uneducated angler to fill the freezer and yadda, yadda, yadda and so on and so on."
Do I seem uneducated and I would place a bet, a dollar to a donut that if I went out fishing with any fisherman on this board I would outfish them or at the very least prove my mettle and show my skills.
He is very right about one thing when he writes, "BBing is taking over and destroying the ethics of fishing on our local rivers." To that I wholeheartedly agree. So what do we do about it to stop it from spreading from the Fraser to our local rivers. I thought about this long and hard and the only solution I could see was to ban it entirely. But would that stop it, No ! Enforcement would be an issue and DFO is so thin right now it's unreal.
And I've seen fishermen bb with a piece of lead and a 3 or 4 foot leader on the Vedder so how do you control that. Of course we could just all turn into fly fishermen and that would end the problem of flossing. Not !!! I've seen so many fish get flossed with fly line and their long leaders that it's silly and if thats the solution then we haven't solved much. My older brother uses nothing but his fly line on the Fraser for sockeye and he says it's way easier to floss with than a bb. And of course we've all heard of the spey fisherman who hooks into 5 or 6 steelhead in one day in zero visibility conditions so what's that tell you.
The answer definitely isn't easy to find and I feel we shall be searching for the solution for quite some time. The wife say's dinner's ready so to all of you, I wish you a Good night.
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You just might want to review your notes on Bill Otway or better yet just do a search on FWR for "Letter from Bill Otway to Paul Ryall" posted on FWR on August 26, 2009.
And Rod, I understood exactly why you moved it and I certainly don't have any problem with it at all. Still don't know why you didn't just keep the same title but it's your board and you can do what pleases you.
Mikeyman say's "Flossing is just a way for an inexperienced and uneducated angler to fill the freezer and yadda, yadda, yadda and so on and so on."
Do I seem uneducated and I would place a bet, a dollar to a donut that if I went out fishing with any fisherman on this board I would outfish them or at the very least prove my mettle and show my skills.
He is very right about one thing when he writes, "BBing is taking over and destroying the ethics of fishing on our local rivers." To that I wholeheartedly agree. So what do we do about it to stop it from spreading from the Fraser to our local rivers. I thought about this long and hard and the only solution I could see was to ban it entirely. But would that stop it, No ! Enforcement would be an issue and DFO is so thin right now it's unreal.
And I've seen fishermen bb with a piece of lead and a 3 or 4 foot leader on the Vedder so how do you control that. Of course we could just all turn into fly fishermen and that would end the problem of flossing. Not !!! I've seen so many fish get flossed with fly line and their long leaders that it's silly and if thats the solution then we haven't solved much. My older brother uses nothing but his fly line on the Fraser for sockeye and he says it's way easier to floss with than a bb. And of course we've all heard of the spey fisherman who hooks into 5 or 6 steelhead in one day in zero visibility conditions so what's that tell you.
The answer definitely isn't easy to find and I feel we shall be searching for the solution for quite some time. The wife say's dinner's ready so to all of you, I wish you a Good night.
Actually, I was referring to many years ago when there was no retention of springs by the Rec Sector on the Fraser. If it wasn't Bill Otway that initially lobbied for an opening I stand corrected.
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Hi Stratocaster, if I understand correctly it was initially started by Chris Gadsen and Fred Helmer and over the years Fred Helmer Sr., Pete Sellmer, Sandy Richie and Bill Otway all worked together to lobby and pressure the elected officials and the D.F.O of the day to reopen the Fraser River and allow a sport fishery. Which ultimately did happen.
Great men do Great things and all these men deserve our respect and admiration for all the amazing achievements they've accomplished throughout the years. Thank You to all of you !!!
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Hi Rod, I just wanted to say I owe you an apology about why you changed the title of this thread from it's previous one. It was my belief that you were moving the entire thread to this section, I didn't realize you were going to keep the initial thread open still in the fishing reports. So Sorry about that, I apologize and should of known better and been assured that you of all people know what you're doing. Sorry !!!!
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You just might want to review your notes on Bill Otway or better yet just do a search on FWR for "Letter from Bill Otway to Paul Ryall" posted on FWR on August 26, 2009.
And Rod, I understood exactly why you moved it and I certainly don't have any problem with it at all. Still don't know why you didn't just keep the same title but it's your board and you can do what pleases you.
Mikeyman say's "Flossing is just a way for an inexperienced and uneducated angler to fill the freezer and yadda, yadda, yadda and so on and so on."
Do I seem uneducated and I would place a bet, a dollar to a donut that if I went out fishing with any fisherman on this board I would outfish them or at the very least prove my mettle and show my skills. Arrogant much? If you are such a skilled fisherman you would jave no need to floss I mean SNAG fish. Ive never personally tooken part in that goon fishery and never will because I dont need to. I get my fish to bite and it is much more rewarding.
He is very right about one thing when he writes, "BBing is taking over and destroying the ethics of fishing on our local rivers." To that I wholeheartedly agree. So what do we do about it to stop it from spreading from the Fraser to our local rivers. I thought about this long and hard and the only solution I could see was to ban it entirely. But would that stop it, No ! Enforcement would be an issue and DFO is so thin right now it's unreal.
And I've seen fishermen bb with a piece of lead and a 3 or 4 foot leader on the Vedder so how do you control that. Of course we could just all turn into fly fishermen and that would end the problem of flossing. Not !!! I've seen so many fish get flossed with fly line and their long leaders that it's silly and if thats the solution then we haven't solved much. My older brother uses nothing but his fly line on the Fraser for sockeye and he says it's way easier to floss with than a bb. And of course we've all heard of the spey fisherman who hooks into 5 or 6 steelhead in one day in zero visibility conditions so what's that tell you.
The answer definitely isn't easy to find and I feel we shall be searching for the solution for quite some time. The wife say's dinner's ready so to all of you, I wish you a Good night.
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My comment is after how great of a fisherman he says he is.
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My comment is after how great of a fisherman he says he is.
Thanks for your input. Everyone is welcome to discuss and let their feelings be known and that's what makes FWR such a great site and I certainly respect your opinion and understand where you're coming from. You'll have to join me sometime when I'm not bb'ing and I'm using bait and maybe then you'd see that one can't paint all with the same brush just because they like to bb.
I know many top rod's and great fishermen, some right from this site that enjoy bb'ing and the cammeraderie that goes with it. Arrogant, you're the first person in my entire life to refer to me as that, thank you. I always walk like a man with a direction in mind, sure of foot and clear of mind. So perhaps I am. Thank's for posting !!!
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Hi Stratocaster, if I understand correctly it was initially started by Chris Gadsen and Fred Helmer and over the years Fred Helmer Sr., Pete Sellmer, Sandy Richie and Bill Otway all worked together to lobby and pressure the elected officials and the D.F.O of the day to reopen the Fraser River and allow a sport fishery. Which ultimately did happen.
Great men do Great things and all these men deserve our respect and admiration for all the amazing achievements they've accomplished throughout the years. Thank You to all of you !!!
::) :'( :-[ :(
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How do you allow the Fraser River flossery without affecting the angling quality of other tributaries by keeping the technique away even though by definition it is legal to use in all waters?
Athezone has given a thoughtful answer, which is there isn't an immediate solution.
Increase licencing requirements so that they are similar to those of hunting and driving; anglers must pass an exam to get a licence. While not foolproof (there will, almost certainly, always be outlaws), such a system would help educate anglers so that they could make informed decisions. Plus, you'd probably end up with less accidental poaching if people were "forced" to learn fish ID.
Like you wrote Rod, flossing is legal. However, if anglers were aware that a fish hooked in the head (i.e. from outside in) is technically foul hooked, that flossing is not considered to be "sport fishing," etc., etc. perhaps fewer would partake in this method of fishing; if not on the Fraser than in other systems.
Short of licencing exams, I don't think there is much that you can do other than educate (e.g. Fish for the Future, this website), which probably isn't going to get through to >90% of the population that are out there flossing in the Chedder.
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Flossing is snagging
According to the Synopsis snagging is defined as:
"snagging (foul hooking) ... hooking a fish in any other part of its body other than the mouth. Attempting to snag fish of any species is prohibited. Any fish willfully or accidently snagged must be released immediately." (p. 88, 2011-2013 version).
Therefore, flossing is not technically snagging if the fish is hooked in the mouth and if that is the intention (I know, I'd make a great lawyer right :D).
Fishing is fooling a fish to bite pure and simple.
Some would disagree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhPCBtu4uIQ&feature=fvwrel, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loc9Xg5SI1Y ;)
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Increase licencing requirements so that they are similar to those of hunting and driving; anglers must pass an exam to get a licence. While not foolproof (there will, almost certainly, always be outlaws), such a system would help educate anglers so that they could make informed decisions. Plus, you'd probably end up with less accidental poaching if people were "forced" to learn fish ID.
Like you wrote Rod, flossing is legal. However, if anglers were aware that a fish hooked in the head (i.e. from outside in) is technically foul hooked, that flossing is not considered to be "sport fishing," etc., etc. perhaps fewer would partake in this method of fishing; if not on the Fraser than in other systems.
Short of licencing exams, I don't think there is much that you can do other than educate (e.g. Fish for the Future, this website), which probably isn't going to get through to >90% of the population that are out there flossing in the Chedder.
A thoughtful reply Zabber and I've always wondered why there isn't an exam necessary for fishing as well as many other aspects of life in general. Like being a parent. I mean my God !!! Just because you can have sex and produce doesn't mean you will be an a good parent. But, just as with the parent example, just because you can pass a test wouldn't totally ensure you were still a caring and providing parent, but it certainly would'nt hurt.
And I agree with you about it not getting through to 90% of those flossing on the Vedder or other river systems. It's so prevalent now and so many are doing it on so many flows that even if it were banned on all rivers, how would you enforce it. The person has to want to not do it and right now I see to many on the Vedder that just don't care. So if they don't care, make them care.
In a perfect world when something's broke and needs fixing, you fix it. So, in our perfect world first you ban it entirely and anyone seen bb'ing or even appearing to bb would be given heavy fines, no warnings. Next you hire more DFO and bring in a volunteer fish watch group that would be dressed as the common man, even as other fishermen with the entrusted ability to question, get ID and hand out a warning sheet which is not a fine. But if you recieve three warning sheets in a fishing year from said watchmen you are given the maximum fine. DFO can hand out fines immediately. If you recieve two fines for bb'ing in one season you automatically lose your ability to fish for five years. Fear is the only thing that will work at this point and we Must be Strict about this.
The way to make an impact is to hit the person where it hurts most, the pocketbook and with the face of fear. If someone doesn't know if the person fishing down from them is an entrusted watchman then there is the face of fear and of course nobody likes to give their money away. Would this totally solve the problem, No, but in the long run it would help because our fishing future is in our youth and they would grow up knowing that bb'ing is not the correct way to fish instead of what they see now.
Before the province banned cell phones friends of mine said it would never happen and even if it did people would just go on using them. Well the law came and people were hit hard and learned that this is now the law and thats just the way it's going to be or get ticketed. Did it solve the problem ? Not entirely but it sure has helped a hell of a lot. The fear factor is in the faces of those driving and using their phones but even then, some still chance it.
We have made mistakes with our sporting fishery and if we are ever to make it right again we have to get rid of what's bad and we can't pussy foot
around. We have to go straight for the jugular and make it clear that this is the way it will be from now on or else. People won't like it, to bad. There have been laws thrust upon civilization's since the beginning of time and citizen's have accepted them and learned to live and to adapt to them whether they liked them or not. If I had cancer in my leg I would'nt want the doctor to amputate my leg but it must be done to save my life. Well this a cancer on the sportfishing community and it must be eradicated and the only way I see that happening is to amputate the leg.
Good Fishing All !!!
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Hi Rod, I just wanted to say I owe you an apology about why you changed the title of this thread from it's previous one. It was my belief that you were moving the entire thread to this section, I didn't realize you were going to keep the initial thread open still in the fishing reports. So Sorry about that, I apologize and should of known better and been assured that you of all people know what you're doing. Sorry !!!!
Don't worry about it. I wasn't offended, was just baffled why it was a problem that I changed the topic of a split thread. ;D
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Yes, restricting flossing would certainly be effective, even leader length restrictions (such as those I hear are in place in Washington state) would help to curb such activity. However, others mentioned that the DFO is woefully underfunded and understaffed, and that they stand too much to gain from salmon tag sales. Not sure how much truth there is to that but if this is the case then increasing enforcement is probably an impractical solution (as you probably realize; hence the "perfect world" scenario).
I think that simply banning it entirely (or just anywhere but the Fraser during a sockeye opening) and enforcing this restriction would help the decrease the prevalence of the activity. Afterall, why do most people do it? As has been said: they don't know any other way, they are impatient "meat fishers," it's legal, etc., etc. Implement some new rules, handout a few tickets, and I'm sure word will spread that this "flossing" technique is no longer a desirable fishing method. Sure, you'll still have the legacy fishers, the die hards, the poachers; those that just don't give a d@mn, but I'm sure you'll put a dent in it. Couple that with eductation and more stringent licencing requirements and I'm sure you'll begin to see a more "perfect" fishery.
G'night & tight lines!
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perfect, restrict leader size, great idea, best thing I heard all day, and if you are intentionally trying to sang a fish in the head...sounds like snagging to me...hmmmm...bounce bounce...snag snag, bounce bounce set the hook on nothing...snag snag....oops fish on, oh wow and it is in the mouth, holy smokes, big or small ripe or fresh just bonk em all.
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Zabber,
Fishery managers generally (not just DFO) manage resource by looking at numbers. If there are enough fish that can be allocated for harvesting, then the fishery is opened. If harvest is determined to have reached the allocated quota, then it closes. As long as these fish are harvested by methods defined legal and CPUE does not exceed expected level, then they are allowed while retention is open. After all, a dead fish is a dead fish, no matter how it is caught. The problem with this type of management approach, is managers have a tendency to underestimate the skills of those who participate in the fishery. Fishermen are always changing their techniques, behaviours, locations, timing, while working within the legal boundary to achieve their goal - Improve their catch rate.
Fisheries and Oceans Canada does not wish to impose leader length restrictions or any further rules on terminal tackle in addition to existing ones. This has been brought up several times when I engaged in discussions on this exact issue with regional managers. What it wishes to see, is a dialogue being started by the community so we can identify the key issues, if there are some, and develop solutions to improve the quality of this fishery and the ones that are affected by it.
The issue I have with flossing proponents in these discussion is the constant diversion of the core problems by suggesting the problems generated by other fisheries are just as bad if not worse. This post earlier is the worst example, or best, however you want to look at it.
You can apply most of your descriptions above to the Vedder too. In fact it is worse at the Vedder. The crowd, the garbage, the snagging (yes, intentional snagging by jerking the rod towards the end of each drift when fishing the rapids), the crowded fish holes with people fishing shoulder to shoulder, and hooks catching the wrong body part of crowded fish even by float fishing or flyfishing. In terms of damaging a fish, there is nothing worse than foul hooking it and fighting it in a rapid, and letting the hook tear apart the flesh of the fish, or letting it tire out to near death because of the prolong battle of landing a foul hooked fish. These foul hookings happen so much more often on the Vedder than bottom bouncing on the Fraser. In a day of bb the Fraser, you rarely see a foul hooked fish. But if you are fishing a crowded fish hole on the Vedder, there will be a foul hooked fish every few minutes. Why don't you go to Tamahi or even the bottom of Keith Wilson Bridge & take a look. In terms of bonking the wrong fish, or keeping over the limit, is the Vedder exempt from these problems? Why are we still allowing the Vedder fishery open then based on your argument? These problems are not a result of the location or method of fishing. They are created by fishermen, a human issue. Most of the time, bbers know the game of crowded fishing and they respect and tolerate crowding. There is usually a open spirit about it and people look past these issues to have a good time out in the bars. For someone who don't like crowd, they can buy a boat and hide away to some islands on the Fraser. We live in a free society and must learn to respect other's legal choices.
I originally wasn't going to address this but it has been put out of context so much. I don't need people reading this on here and walking away with the same attitude. The problems that I addressed earlier have completely been misinterpreted on purpose, just so you can paint a pretty picture on the Fraser River sockeye salmon fishery. Why? Especially when I've already suggested that this fishery is here to stay and we should be looking for solutions to minimize its impact on the overall resource and angling quality in Southern BC? As always, you are more interested in laying the blame on others and making the outrageous claim that everything is all good when people are out enjoying flossing sockeye salmon on the Fraser River.
This is not just about bottom bouncing with a long leader. It is about the intent to catch a fish by sweeping the line across the river bed and hoping to foul hook a fish in its mouth region during the process. Because the technique is defined legal for the Fraser River salmon fishery, it can then be, and has been, employed in other fisheries such as the Chilliwack River. No, people are not bottom bouncing with a betty and long leader to achieve the same result. They are float fishing by having the weight dragging along the bottom and jerking the rod repeatedly when the float goes under to "catch" one. They are fly fishing by swinging a lead line across a school of fish. The technique maybe different, the intention and result remain the same. Fish are brought in. If they are foul hooked, they are released. If they are hooked in the mouth region, they are retained. It's not pretty, but it's legal, practiced just as it is on the Fraser River. Is it a problem? That would depend on who you ask and what their definition on angling quality is.
Fish caught in the Fraser River are rarely foul hooked compared to ones caught in the Chilliwack River? Don't make such a bold suggestion without the numbers to back it up. What's the purpose of this suggestion anyway, beside insisting these fish in the Fraser River are actually not flossed? Again, the point has been missed, which is that participants are now taking advantage of the same legal loophole at smaller streams to improve their catch rate. Lets say if in fact more fish are being foul hooked in the Vedder due to anglers fishing with the intent to floss, then there's more reason to be concerned!
By the way, 86% of sockeye landed in the 3-year Fraser River sockeye salmon catch and release mortality study (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/file/101126-1.pdf) were hooked outside the mouth. But hey, 14% were hooked in the mouth, they must be biting.
Misidentifying species and exceeding daily quota occur in all fisheries, but its impact is more significant in the Fraser River because you are targeting mixed runs with the possibility to intercept vulnerable stocks such as interior steelhead and coho salmon. All groups that work with Fisheries and Oceans Canada recognize this and have been trying to find solutions to prevent it.
The root of these problems is the amount of new participants being introduced to fishing by taking part in the Fraser River salmon fishery as their first fishing experience. The idea of flossing is then imprinted and they only believe salmon can be caught this way unless shown otherwise. By modifying the technique slightly, they then participate in smaller tributary fisheries with the same intent. Some will eventually learn, others will fish like so forever because the regulations allow it.
If you firmly don't believe that, then there isn't a problem for you to solve and the discussion can pretty much end right here. If you feel this type of fishing is accepted in fisheries other than the Fraser River, then there also isn't anything else to discuss. Don't even lay the blame on Fisheries and Oceans Canada. You cannot advocate for the acceptance of flossing as a legal method to catch salmon in less-ideal condition and complain about the decline in angling quality of other fisheries.
Back to Zabber's suggestions. I cannot comment much about licence testing. That has been suggested at meetings in the past and they never go further than being suggested. Other ideas that have emerged in the past include having important regional information printed on one side of the sheet that is used to print licences at the store, so anglers walk away with the information when getting a licence. This still does not eliminate the fact that you can catch fish by flossing in streams beside the Fraser River. You can recommend, but how high do you think the compliance would be when the catch rate is much higher by lining fish than enticing them to bite?
Like Athezone said, there are no immediate, easy solutions, that's why we are not seeing many responses in what normally is a hotly debated topic.
While I personally find it silly to spend all that money and time to fish on a crowded Fraser River bar when there are much better fishing opportunities in this province, I don't really care if others choose to do it. However if you are going to promote it, you should at least recognize potential problems, address them and demonstrate that it can in fact have minimal impact.
perfect, restrict leader size, great idea, best thing I heard all day, and if you are intentionally trying to sang a fish in the head...sounds like snagging to me...hmmmm...bounce bounce...snag snag, bounce bounce set the hook on nothing...snag snag....oops fish on, oh wow and it is in the mouth, holy smokes, big or small ripe or fresh just bonk em all.
Thanks once again for those constructive criticisms, which definitely have persuaded people to change their behaviours and improved the situation. ::)
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According to the Synopsis snagging is defined as:
"snagging (foul hooking) ... hooking a fish in any other part of its body other than the mouth. Attempting to snag fish of any species is prohibited. Any fish willfully or accidently snagged must be released immediately." (p. 88, 2011-2013 version).
Therefore, flossing is not technically snagging if the fish is hooked in the mouth and if that is the intention (I know, I'd make a great lawyer right :D). Actually, flossing is SNAGing because the hook set is outside of the mouth which infact is not insside the mouth and out (which happens 99percent of the time when the fish bites. A new regulation which is based on that would never stick.
Some would disagree: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhPCBtu4uIQ&feature=fvwrel, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loc9Xg5SI1Y ;)
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Hey Rodney, I only posted that comment in reply to Mikeyman's earlier post which seeks to demonize bb and bb fishermen based on those points. The problems he listed are all found somewhere else with different methods. You find that in the Vedder, in Chehalis, even in the Stamps (remember that stabbing incident at the meat hole right above the Stamp Fall and no one was bbing there). I am not defending bb based on the fact that the problems of bb are the same everywhere else. bb on a smaller system resulting in much more foul hooking is not defensible. It is not the technique name of bb which is objectionable (because there is true bb with a pencil lead on 3 ft leader to slow down presentation, or to sink deep in a deep run/pool), but the result of damaging too many fish by foul hooking is objectionable. So to me, even floating or flyfishing in meat holes where fish are packed should be banned or discouraged because regardless of methods, too many fish are foul-hooked at meat holes. That is probably why the Limit Hole was off limit now. DFO should do the same for all other meat holes where there are too many people throwing what-have-u at the packed fish all day, float or no float, and the fish are more spooked then interested to bite anything.
I think besides leader length, perhaps DFO should ban the use of lead betties in smaller system. Besides foul hooking fish, the problem is that each betty lost to the system can contribute a lot more lead to the smaller eco system of a smaller river. Newbies bbing a smaller system will lose betties in a hurry. Believe me, a greenie fisherman bbing a small river with a bettie is a nightmare to watch. Once I was fishing near Woodcroft bridge of the Cap. A greenie fishing about me was losing betty after betty, until he saw me take a coho on short floating and was curious about my technique. A short technique discussion with him later, he said he would be floating from then on. That is nice. But if we already have regulation by DFO banning betties in systems other than the Fraser, we can avoid newbies dumping more lead to the rivers before they figure out there are better methods to catch salmon in smaller systems.
For those of us steelheaders, DFO bans the use of anything other than flies in May each year at the Vedder. So why not ban the use of lead betties for these smaller system the whole year through. It is not like DFO has not done it before on gear restriction.
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Hey Rodney, I only posted that comment in reply to Mikeyman's earlier post which seeks to demonize bb and bb fishermen based on those points. The problems he listed are all found somewhere else with different methods. You find that in the Vedder, in Chehalis, even in the Stamps (remember that stabbing incident at the meat hole right above the Stamp Fall and no one was bbing there). I am not defending bb based on the fact that the problems of bb are the same everywhere else. bb on a smaller system resulting in much more foul hooking is not defensible. It is not the technique name of bb which is objectionable (because there is true bb with a pencil lead on 3 ft leader to slow down presentation, or to sink deep in a deep run/pool), but the result of damaging too many fish by foul hooking is objectionable. So to me, even floating or flyfishing in meat holes where fish are packed should be banned or discouraged because regardless of methods, too many fish are foul-hooked at meat holes. That is probably why the Limit Hole was off limit now. DFO should do the same for all other meat holes where there are too many people throwing what-have-u at the packed fish all day, float or no float, and the fish are more spooked then interested to bite anything.
I think besides leader length, perhaps DFO should ban the use of lead betties in smaller system. Besides foul hooking fish, the problem is that each betty lost to the system can contribute a lot more lead to the smaller eco system of a smaller river. Newbies bbing a smaller system will lose betties in a hurry. Believe me, a greenie fisherman bbing a small river with a bettie is a nightmare to watch. Once I was fishing near Woodcroft bridge of the Cap. A greenie fishing about me was losing betty after betty, until he saw me take a coho on short floating and was curious about my technique. A short technique discussion with him later, he said he would be floating from then on. That is nice. But if we already have regulation by DFO banning betties in systems other than the Fraser, we can avoid newbies dumping more lead to the rivers before they figure out there are better methods to catch salmon in smaller systems.
For those of us steelheaders, DFO bans the use of anything other than flies in May each year at the Vedder. So why not ban the use of lead betties for these smaller system the whole year through. It is not like DFO has not done it before on gear restriction.
Maybe change your name to liketobb... ;D
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You can keep focusing on banning bottom bouncing with betties in small systems, reducing leader length, closing down crowded spots, it will still not eliminate the intent to catch fish by attempting to hook them in their mouth instead of luring them to bite. Participants will somehow find a way to get around more rules to achieve this. The problem also seems to be that you fail to understand when float fishing, fly fishing or lure fishing properly, you can easily avoid accidentally foul hooking fish even at spots where fish stage in high density.
The issue is not how do we stop people from bottom bouncing with betties in systems other than the Fraser River, but how do we stop people from catching fish by intentionally foul hooking them in their mouth in systems other than the Fraser River, which can be done with all methods if given the opportunity. Intent, intent, intent, I'm not sure why it is so difficult to recognize and understand the issue. How do you change angling behaviour in small streams when you have accepted the same behaviour to be legally practiced on the Fraser River?
Re: Plenty of entry-level participants lose just as many bouncing betties in the Fraser River during the sockeye salmon fishery if not more. If that's not the case, it wouldn't be such a hot commodity during the Fraser River salmon season.
Re: Fly fishing only regulation for the month of May is imposed by the province, not by DFO as they are only responsible for managing salmon.
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Maybe change your name to liketobb... ;D
Hey Bass, I thought you miss the point I taught the greenie short floating instead of bb on the Cap. bb is just one of the techniques used for different situations and I have no special love for it. I have fished over 2 decades for salmon/steelhead. There are instances bb on smaller system with a pencil lead on a small spin & glo or birdie drifter with 3 ft 8lb leader is better than floating with roe. Do you know that? For me, more steelheads were taken in the afternoon on bright days with bbing then floating. Simple, the fish are tired or scared by the sight of floats since first light and they are off bite by seeing those floats. Try go to the faster section, bb with top down presentation to slow the drift and those small spin & glo are deadly to those steelies moving out of the heavily bombarded slower section below to the faster section. When not spooked, a steelie can't refuse a small flashing stuff in front of their nose. Hope you will do some bb for steelhead this way if you have an open mind about it. ;)
By the way, if I change my name to liketobb, will you change yours to liketopeep? ;D Just kidding.
Rodney, to ask people to change their intent when fishing is a human issue, not fishing issue. Humans are complex animals. They can think differently, sometimes drastically differently, about the same thing. That is why Steven Harper or Obama is a saint to some but a tyrant to others. That is why we have people like PETA members thinking us dead enemy for our hobby, and then there are people who think we are someones with a wholesome & productive hobby. To some people, fishing is a recreation, a fun activity with the bonus of some of thefreshest self-caught seafood to give themselves & their families a nice treat. Nothing more. They will do it as long as it is legal and effective. If you take out the fun part, or the feel-good feeling of providing the freshest seafood as a bonus, most people will rather just buy the stuff from supermarkets or FN sources. So the requirement of fish's willingly biting as a requirement for fishing may not be shared by all. They can try your method, but if it does not produce result as effective as the other legal methods, they will not stick with it. They can reason that for non-biting fish, people use nets, spears, traps, arrows (like the Americans doing that to the leaping carp) & what-have-u. So if DFO allows bb to be a legal means of catching Fraser salmon, and it being the most effective means with a rod and a hook, then it is good enough for most people's idea of fishing. If they release a foul hooked fish which meets with DFO's requirement, then who are we to say he cannot fish this way or that in the finer detail of presentation to the fish. To ask everybody to fish and think like one's ideal way to fish is a waste of time in a free society. The most we can do is to educate and offer alternatives of a better way to fish (according to some), but unless DFO regulates it, people are going to make their choices based on their needs and and based on their own sense of enjoyment of the legal methods. If we can change people like magic, it will be nice. But in a real world, this will never happen. The health & medical folks have been preaching for eons that we should not eat junk foods or risk major health issues. As far as we know, the junk food chains are still expanding. Unless government legislate against junk foods, they will find their way into our stomach. It is just human nature.
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Judst teasin m8.
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Hey Bass, if you post more avatars like those, no body will read what we write anymore with their eyes glued on the avatars. ;D
I already said I don't specially prefer bb, so you don't need to promote 'BB' here with your sensual avatars or risk Nana shutting you down. ;D ;D ;D
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Rodney, to ask people to change their intent when fishing is a human issue, not fishing issue. Humans are complex animals. They can think differently, sometimes drastically differently, about the same thing. That is why Steven Harper or Obama is a saint to some but a tyrant to others. That is why we have people like PETA members thinking us dead enemy for our hobby, and then there are people who think we are someones with a wholesome & productive hobby. To some people, fishing is a recreation, a fun activity with the bonus of some of thefreshest self-caught seafood to give themselves & their families a nice treat. Nothing more. They will do it as long as it is legal and effective. If you take out the fun part, or the feel-good feeling of providing the freshest seafood as a bonus, most people will rather just buy the stuff from supermarkets or FN sources. So the requirement of fish's willingly biting as a requirement for fishing may not be shared by all. They can try your method, but if it does not produce result as effective as the other legal methods, they will not stick with it. They can reason that for non-biting fish, people use nets, spears, traps, arrows (like the Americans doing that to the leaping carp) & what-have-u. So if DFO allows bb to be a legal means of catching Fraser salmon, and it being the most effective means with a rod and a hook, then it is good enough for most people's idea of fishing. If they release a foul hooked fish which meets with DFO's requirement, then who are we to say he cannot fish this way or that in the finer detail of presentation to the fish. To ask everybody to fish and think like one's ideal way to fish is a waste of time in a free society. The most we can do is to educate and offer alternatives of a better way to fish (according to some), but unless DFO regulates it, people are going to make their choices based on their needs and and based on their own sense of enjoyment of the legal methods. If we can change people like magic, it will be nice. But in a real world, this will never happen. The health & medical folks have been preaching for eons that we should not eat junk foods or risk major health issues. As far as we know, the junk food chains are still expanding. Unless government legislate against junk foods, they will find their way into our stomach. It is just human nature.
And that pretty much goes back to one of my earlier statement.
If you firmly don't believe that, then there isn't a problem for you to solve and the discussion can pretty much end right here.
Easy with the avatar pics Bassy, this is a family site. :)
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Thanks for the insights Rodney! :)
flossing is SNAGing because the hook set is outside of the mouth
I've hooked just as many, if not more, sockeye in the mouth than outside of the mouth bottom bouncing the bars and both of the springs I've landed as "by catch" were also hooked from the inside out. I may have gotten lucky in that respect, and it may have something to do with only having bb'd the bars a handful of times & having only caught ~40 sox.
the intent to catch fish by attempting to hook them in their mouth instead of luring them to bite.
Even when you are luring fish to bite the intent is still to hook them in the mouth; how else will you reel them in ;)
How do we stop people from catching fish by intentionally foul hooking them in their mouth in systems other than the Fraser River, which can be done with all methods if given the opportunity. Intent, intent, intent, I'm not sure why it is so difficult to recognize and understand the issue. How do you change angling behaviour in small streams when you have accepted the same behaviour to be legally practiced on the Fraser River?
Perhaps this is the problem: you have accepted the ... behaviour to be "legally" practiced on the Fraser River. I've seen many people bonk foul hooked fish out there but all I've ever seen the COs do is check licences and ticket people for fishing past the boundary. By failing to enforce the rules (in this case, foul hooking), you essentially redefine what those rules are. It's kind of like speed limits in that sense: most people know that if you go "20 over" the cops won't bother you, and suddenly 70 is the new 50. Sure, some people will stick to the posted limits but most will do that 70 because it gets them to where they're going faster. Similarly, if "mouth" is considered to be "head" by the authorities, obviously you'll get folks taking advantage of the situation and bagging fish that they've lined and hooked from the outside in.
If you are going to promote it, you should at least recognize potential problems, address them and demonstrate that it can in fact have minimal impact.
Fortunately sockeye short term mortality from bb'ing is only 1-3% ;) Unfortunately, it sounds like (new) fishermen are taking this technique to other systems and even one ugly step further. While AtZ likens the spread of bb'ing as a cancer that is destroying the state of our river fisheries, the fact that talks have taken place but no action has been taken suggests to me that the powers that be don't see this whole state of affairs as being quite so serious. That, or they don't have the resources to implement any potentially effective plans and we can only rely on outside groups to change the state of our fishery.
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Thanks for the insights Rodney! :)
I've hooked just as many, if not more, sockeye in the mouth than outside of the mouth bottom bouncing the bars and both of the springs I've landed as "by catch" were also hooked from the inside out. I may have gotten lucky in that respect, and it may have something to do with only having bb'd the bars a handful of times & having only caught ~40 sox.
You missed my point zabber. Float fishng or chucking a spoon the hook is set 99% of the time inside and out.
Even when you are luring fish to bite the intent is still to hook them in the mouth; how else will you reel them in ;)
Perhaps this is the problem: you have accepted the ... behaviour to be "legally" practiced on the Fraser River. I've seen many people bonk foul hooked fish out there but all I've ever seen the COs do is check licences and ticket people for fishing past the boundary. By failing to enforce the rules (in this case, foul hooking), you essentially redefine what those rules are. It's kind of like speed limits in that sense: most people know that if you go "20 over" the cops won't bother you, and suddenly 70 is the new 50. Sure, some people will stick to the posted limits but most will do that 70 because it gets them to where they're going faster. Similarly, if "mouth" is considered to be "head" by the authorities, obviously you'll get folks taking advantage of the situation and bagging fish that they've lined and hooked from the outside in.
Fortunately sockeye short term mortality from bb'ing is only 1-3% ;) Unfortunately, it sounds like (new) fishermen are taking this technique to other systems and even one ugly step further. While AtZ likens the spread of bb'ing as a cancer that is destroying the state of our river fisheries, the fact that talks have taken place but no action has been taken suggests to me that the powers that be don't see this whole state of affairs as being quite so serious. That, or they don't have the resources to implement any potentially effective plans and we can only rely on outside groups to change the state of our fishery.
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Thanks for the insights Rodney! :)
I've hooked just as many, if not more, sockeye in the mouth than outside of the mouth bottom bouncing the bars and both of the springs I've landed as "by catch" were also hooked from the inside out. I may have gotten lucky in that respect, and it may have something to do with only having bb'd the bars a handful of times & having only caught ~40 sox.
Even when you are luring fish to bite the intent is still to hook them in the mouth; how else will you reel them in ;)
Perhaps this is the problem: you have accepted the ... behaviour to be "legally" practiced on the Fraser River. I've seen many people bonk foul hooked fish out there but all I've ever seen the COs do is check licences and ticket people for fishing past the boundary. By failing to enforce the rules (in this case, foul hooking), you essentially redefine what those rules are. It's kind of like speed limits in that sense: most people know that if you go "20 over" the cops won't bother you, and suddenly 70 is the new 50. Sure, some people will stick to the posted limits but most will do that 70 because it gets them to where they're going faster. Similarly, if "mouth" is considered to be "head" by the authorities, obviously you'll get folks taking advantage of the situation and bagging fish that they've lined and hooked from the outside in.
Fortunately sockeye short term mortality from bb'ing is only 1-3% ;) Unfortunately, it sounds like (new) fishermen are taking this technique to other systems and even one ugly step further. While AtZ likens the spread of bb'ing as a cancer that is destroying the state of our river fisheries, the fact that talks have taken place but no action has been taken suggests to me that the powers that be don't see this whole state of affairs as being quite so serious. That, or they don't have the resources to implement any potentially effective plans and we can only rely on outside groups to change the state of our fishery.
The study had some faults re survival rates as they were caught, held in a pen for a period of time, time to regain their strength and then released.
What is their survival rates when caught and then released right away? ::)
There was some sockeye radio tagged for two years of the 3 year study and then tracked by telemetry stations through their migration up the watershed, not sure if those results have been made available yet. I should try to see if they are.
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Even when released right away, a tired sockeye should just act like any tired animal as a survival instinct - they rest at the calm water until their body regain strength with the lactic acid dissipated. That is pure survival instinct of any migrating animal.
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You missed my point zabber. Float fishng or chucking a spoon the hook is set 99% of the time inside and out.
No doubt; in all my years of trout fishing I've only seen one fish foul hooked (in this case it was hooked in the side); that is out of ~500+ fish brought to boat and shore.
However, does that make it a more legitimate form of angling? According to the regs, no. According to some anglers, yes. Does that make it a more enjoyable form of angling? As Rodney said, that will depend on who you ask.
I've had a 20+ sockeye day, and every fish hooked in the head fought like a fish hooked in the mouth. Reeling in a fish every 2-3 casts while standing in waist deep flow and getting a tan made for a good time. Knowing that the fish probably didn't strike the presentation didn't really take the enjoyment out of the experience for me. Sure, if they were hammering a lure it would make for a better time but it was still good. And the 2 bonked were delicious; always tastes better when you catch it yourself ;)
The study had some faults re survival rates as they were caught, held in a pen for a period of time, time to regain their strength and then released.
What is their survival rates when caught and then released right away? ::)
There was some sockeye radio tagged for two years of the 3 year study and then tracked by telemetry stations through their migration up the watershed, not sure if those results have been made available yet. I should try to see if they are.
These would certainly be interesting results, especially since I've read statements such as "it should be first two fish to the beach, regardless of how they are hooked, as CnRing sockeye is basically killing them anyway; what, with the water temp what it is and all."
Just out of curiosity Chris, do you know how the data on page 23 was compiled? In other words, how was the mortality rate of 30% for coho caught on roe, J-hook bar fishing obtained? Was it produced in the same way as the sockeye data (i.e. 24-hour holding in net pens after being caught)? Thanks in advance.
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No doubt; in all my years of trout fishing I've only seen one fish foul hooked (in this case it was hooked in the side); that is out of ~500+ fish brought to boat and shore.
However, does that make it a more legitimate form of angling? According to the regs, no. According to some anglers, yes. Does that make it a more enjoyable form of angling? As Rodney said, that will depend on who you ask.
I've had a 20+ sockeye day, and every fish hooked in the head fought like a fish hooked in the mouth. Reeling in a fish every 2-3 casts while standing in waist deep flow and getting a tan made for a good time. Knowing that the fish probably didn't strike the presentation didn't really take the enjoyment out of the experience for me. Sure, if they were hammering a lure it would make for a better time but it was still good. And the 2 bonked were delicious; always tastes better when you catch it yourself ;)
All flossing is doiing is harvesting, not fishing. Fishing is tricking the fish to bite. Ive had a 20+ sockeye day to on the vedder all caught short floating and everysingle fish is tricked and inhales my bait. So dont call yourself a fisherman when youre basically commercial fishing for sockeye or chinook. Your mother would be very proud of you! ;)
These would certainly be interesting results, especially since I've read statements such as "it should be first two fish to the beach, regardless of how they are hooked, as CnRing sockeye is basically killing them anyway; what, with the water temp what it is and all."
Just out of curiosity Chris, do you know how the data on page 23 was compiled? In other words, how was the mortality rate of 30% for coho caught on roe, J-hook bar fishing obtained? Was it produced in the same way as the sockeye data (i.e. 24-hour holding in net pens after being caught)? Thanks in advance.
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Bandit420, when you're quoting someone in the post, write your replies outside the [ quote ] [ /quote ] codes so they are not embedded in the quote. This way it's much easier to differentiate your reply to the original post.
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Should be good now Rod he made his 50 posts probably the last we hear from him
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Should be good now Rod he made his 50 posts probably the last we hear from him
Bandit is already a subscriber so post count is not a concern for him, at least I hope he knows that. :)
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I've had a 20+ sockeye day, and every fish hooked in the head fought like a fish hooked in the mouth. Reeling in a fish every 2-3 casts while standing in waist deep flow and getting a tan made for a good time.
I thought this was a harvest
Get your 2 socks and leave.
That’s disgusting
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While it is excellent to see a study conducted on the catch and release mortality of Fraser River salmon, one should be cautiously critical on the results by considering the followings.
Catch and release mortality depends on water temperature, fight time and cortisol level. What this study has determined is the short term mortality of fish that have been caught and kept in condition that is a bit different to what they would endure in reality. In all studies, there are always errors so findings can only represent what really happens to a certain degree. What these results demonstrate is that mortality is relatively low within the first 24 hours after these fish are caught and kept in waters with minimal current. Does it demonstrate that released fish can successfully reach their spawning ground once released? Furthermore, how does water temperature affect the mortality? These still need to be determined. The Freshwater Fisheries Society of BC has recently completely a three-year catch and release mortality study on stocked trout in lakes. The study determined that the average mortality, after fish are kept and observed for a week, is 11% and increases significantly when water temperature is above 13C.
While the Fraser River salmon catch and release study has concluded that the mortality to be relatively low, anglers should not take that information and partake this fishery as a catch and release fishery. Whether you're flossing, or barfishing, you should consider to stop fishing once they have retained their quota of fish. These are my recommendations of course and not regulations, so whether you wish to do that is ultimately up to you. Is it good that participants decide to retain two sockeye salmon then continue fishing by releasing more sockeye salmon until a chinook salmon is retained? Will fish released actually make it to their spawning ground and still manage to reproduce successfully? Time will tell. In the end, this is the resource for you to enjoy and protect for future enjoyment. We can continue questioning whether fish migrating in highly stressful condition should be caught and released, or we can play safe and not ending up asking a familiar age old question - "Why didn't they think of that?"
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Well just back from spending the weekend with friends and relatives up in Hope and catching a few sockeye (safely released) and bonking a few springs. Could'nt of asked for a better weekend as we left on Friday at noon so we had lots of time to recreate, get our fill of the sun and bounce up some Big Boy's, which we did.
Brought two home myself, a 15 and a 21lber, both red's and saw tons caught by friends. Sorry I could'nt hook up with you liketofish. I used your e-mail (it didn't work) to see if you wanted to join us as I could of showed you a spot a hell of a lot better than the Scale Bar. My sister drops us off and picks us up as soon as we phone her so we have to walk very little. We never had to go in the water once. Oh well, maybe next time liketofish if you're around and interested.
Not going to make this into a very detailed report but we did have a great time, everyone was extremely sociable as everyone always is there and we saw lot's of fish caught and kept. Deep frying some red spring as I type, or at least the wife is. Hey, I caught it and filleted it.
Good Fishing All !!!
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Bandit is already a subscriber so post count is not a concern for him, at least I hope he knows that. :)
Thank you Rod I am fully aware of the post count and I also know that a majority of people who dont subscribe, become a troll after there 50 posts. I subscribed because your site is based on ethical fishing and teaching new anglers too fish not harvest because going fishing is my anti-deppresant and coming home with a fish is a bonus in my books. In the last year, ive heard alot more about this site from new anglers on the flow, I looked into your site and supported your cause. Ethical , legal fishing.
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Bandit420, when you're quoting someone in the post, write your replies outside the [ quote ] [ /quote ] codes so they are not embedded in the quote. This way it's much easier to differentiate your reply to the original post.
sorry about that. Im on my phone the majority of the time and dont realise. :-X :o
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Thank you Rod I am fully aware of the post count and I also know that a majority of people who dont subscribe, become a troll after there 50 posts. I subscribed because your site is based on ethical fishing and teaching new anglers too fish not harvest because going fishing is my anti-deppresant and coming home with a fish is a bonus in my books. In the last year, ive heard alot more about this site from new anglers on the flow, I looked into your site and supported your cause. Ethical , legal fishing.
Thanks. Regarding those who attempt to reach 50 posts just to see the reports, we are usually pretty good at picking them out. Either their post count is reset or their account is deleted when that happens.
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What this study has determined is the short term mortality of fish that have been caught and kept in condition that is a bit different to what they would endure in reality.
It seems that there are generally slower pockets of water along the river that fish can hold in in order to regain their strength after release. If most fish are released in "vigorous condition" I don't imagine that they will have a problem finding these pockets of water, if they even need them. Will a lip piercing and 1-2 minute "battle" really sap them of the energy they need to make it to their spawning ground? Maybe; I don't know enough about fish to make an educated guess, though I imagine it won't have much of an impact on many.
What these results demonstrate is that mortality is relatively low within the first 24 hours after these fish are caught and kept in waters with minimal current. Does it demonstrate that released fish can successfully reach their spawning ground once released? Furthermore, how does water temperature affect the mortality? These still need to be determined.
Fortunately they radio tagged some fish and when this data becomes available we will have some insight into the former. As for water temperature; the study was conducted from Aug 9 - 26. I imagine the Fraser was about as warm as it gets at that time of year, so this should strengthen whatever the findings may be. The slides mention something about a water temp data logger, though no temp measurements are provided in the slide deck. I'm sure the water temp of the Fraser fluctuates from year to year, but I imagine it's at it's warmest in the summer months (July - August), and has historically varied by a few degrees, on average.
The Freshwater Fisheries Society of BC has recently completely a three-year catch and release mortality study on stocked trout in lakes. The study determined that the average mortality, after fish are kept and observed for a week, is 11% and increases significantly when water temperature is above 13C.
This is exactly why I asked about the mortality data on p. 23. It is framed as a "comparison" but are apples being compared to apples? Why is plug cut herring fishing for chinook so much more deadly than bottom bouncing for sockeye? Is it because sockeye are hardier? Is it because the data obtained for the chinook was done so differently (i.e. is that data for radio tagged chinook)?
While the Fraser River salmon catch and release study has concluded that the mortality to be relatively low, anglers should not take that information and partake this fishery as a catch and release fishery. Whether you're flossing, or barfishing, you should consider to stop fishing once they have retained their quota of fish. ... Is it good that participants decide to retain two sockeye salmon then continue fishing by releasing more sockeye salmon until a chinook salmon is retained? Will fish released actually make it to their spawning ground and still manage to reproduce successfully? Time will tell. In the end, this is the resource for you to enjoy and protect for future enjoyment. We can continue questioning whether fish migrating in highly stressful condition should be caught and released, or we can play safe and not ending up asking a familiar age old question - "Why didn't they think of that?"
I hear ya, and this is certainly something that I've thought about while bottom bouncing, but -- on the flip side -- how many times do we think something is common sense, only to have it shown to be "an old wives tale" at a later time. Personally, I'm still on the fence about bb'ing, as I've heard compelling arguments from both the pro and the no camps. I'm glad some groups have decided to tackle this issue in a scientific manner so that at least we can have some insight into important questions. 'Til then, I will likely to continue to participate in this fishery once or twice a year, which may mean CnRing sox until I've bagged a chinook and pink or a couple of hours have gone by and I start to feel bad about interfering with fish migration. Then again, I may toss out a spin-n'-glo and a few cold ones instead, after taking my limit.
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Well just back from spending the weekend with friends and relatives up in Hope and catching a few sockeye (safely released) and bonking a few springs. Could'nt of asked for a better weekend as we left on Friday at noon so we had lots of time to recreate, get our fill of the sun and bounce up some Big Boy's, which we did.
Brought two home myself, a 15 and a 21lber, both red's and saw tons caught by friends. Sorry I could'nt hook up with you liketofish. I used your e-mail (it didn't work) to see if you wanted to join us as I could of showed you a spot a hell of a lot better than the Scale Bar. My sister drops us off and picks us up as soon as we phone her so we have to walk very little. We never had to go in the water once. Oh well, maybe next time liketofish if you're around and interested.
Not going to make this into a very detailed report but we did have a great time, everyone was extremely sociable as everyone always is there and we saw lot's of fish caught and kept. Deep frying some red spring as I type, or at least the wife is. Hey, I caught it and filleted it.
Good Fishing All !!!
Congrats Athezone. Any time you can mingle with friends and families and have good fishing too, it is a memorable time. Sorry I missed your invitation as I have not checked the thread recently. Love to find somewhere else besides Scales which is easier for my aging body and I hate fishing with waders in summer. ;D
I have updated my email in the profile. So hopefully we can connect for some future trips. I live minutes from Port Mann Bridge in Port Coquitlam and can pick up anyone from Surrey & Langley close to H1 to share gas or alternate driving .
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Love the justification for BBing..."being with friends"
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Love the justification for BBing..."being with friends"
I like your avatar. Ah friends being with friends. ::)
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Love the justification for BBing..."being with friends"
No doubt, you'd think life didn't exist before BB.
On another thread one of the guys reasons for snagging was quality Sashimi - he claims the only way to get good sashimi is to snag sockeye. Nice try.
The end result of all these guys flossing springs will be a total river closure for springs. As Rod has pointed out, fisheries manages to escapement and BB is simply too effective. Once the number is hit, river gets closed. It's pretty easy to see where all this ends, in either a short season where everyone bounces to get their fish over a two week period or a total closure.
Just a few years back the river used to open for springs in June but BB is so effective that we didn't get a full opening until August this year. I hope all you BB fiends understand where this is all headed. I'm glad you're having fun snagging springs, enjoy it while you can 'cause it ain't going to last.
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No doubt, you'd think life didn't exist before BB.
On another thread one of the guys reasons for snagging was quality Sashimi - he claims the only way to get good sashimi is to snag sockeye. Nice try.
The end result of all these guys flossing springs will be a total river closure for springs. As Rod has pointed out, fisheries manages to escapement and BB is simply too effective. Once the number is hit, river gets closed. It's pretty easy to see where all this ends, in either a short season where everyone bounces to get their fish over a two week period or a total closure.
Just a few years back the river used to open for springs in June but BB is so effective that we didn't get a full opening until August this year. I hope all you BB fiends understand where this is all headed. I'm glad you're having fun snagging springs, enjoy it while you can 'cause it ain't going to last.
Yes, you have explained this as it is and by the way we used to open in May and now we keep slipping backwards because of this. Tough for us that take our fish by making them take our offering.
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And thats why we have the meat fishery we have today.
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And thats why we have the meat fishery we have today.
Yes.
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Congrats Athezone. Any time you can mingle with friends and families and have good fishing too, it is a memorable time. Sorry I missed your invitation as I have not checked the thread recently. Love to find somewhere else besides Scales which is easier for my aging body and I hate fishing with waders in summer. ;D
I have updated my email in the profile. So hopefully we can connect for some future trips. I live minutes from Port Mann Bridge in Port Coquitlam and can pick up anyone from Surrey & Langley close to H1 to share gas or alternate driving .
I will be in touch liketofish and yeh, I don't care to wear wader's in the summer heat either. Luckily for us I've never had to wear them at this spot and you won't have to neither. I live in New West and have 2 vehicles so's getting around is fairly easy. I think you'll like this new spot 10 times better than the scale bar.
I stopped taking the long walk into that place 16 years ago and now, only go to a couple special spots, one of which I'll show you.
And as for the people complaining about bb'ing saying that it will shut down the river quicker : That may be the case but do you really think with the high water this year you would of bar fished in June, and some other fellow even mentioned May, that made me laugh. Yup, blame it all on the bb'ers and in the meantime I'll be laughing with friends and drinking a frosty. See Yah !!!!
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I for one dont bar fish and in case you missed it I havent fished for salmon since 2009 the reason why..peeps like you.So enjoy your frosty and friends and thnx for those youtube meatfishery highlites every year.
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So I have been reading a lot of this thread and I have a few things to say in regards to some of the "point of views"
Some people have NO CLUE what they are doing when it comes to fishing. Fishing is one of those activities where you now have to pretty much be taught or guided into the sport.
I was taught to bottom bounce, invested in bb'ing gear and thats almost the full extent of my salmon fishing. A lot of people view it as negative and I can understand why. But maybe some people are too intimidated, or dont know enough to try other techniques. I would probably have better luck making a fly rod into a spear and spear fishing than to even try casting, picking a fly, etc.
Last year I tried float fishing the vedder in the fall. I watched how to videos and read articles but that only goes so far. As a younger guy it gets intimidating going into a shop and pretty much asking/saying "hey, i have no clue what im doing, what gear to use, what method to fish with said gear." and that is why I go out, bottom bounce, " snag, floss, whatever" my salmon and eat em up.
Also having invested in bb gear I am strapped for funds for other gear. I would love to learn how to fish a centerpin, float fish properly, fly fish... etc.
So before everyone just thrashes the sh** out of bottom bouncing be a sport do something about it. Offer to teach, post videos, post things that you've found helpful. I know there is this huge secrecy thing with fishing, but I swear that wont help anything.
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I will be in touch liketofish and yeh, I don't care to wear wader's in the summer heat either. Luckily for us I've never had to wear them at this spot and you won't have to neither. I live in New West and have 2 vehicles so's getting around is fairly easy. I think you'll like this new spot 10 times better than the scale bar.
I stopped taking the long walk into that place 16 years ago and now, only go to a couple special spots, one of which I'll show you.
And as for the people complaining about bb'ing saying that it will shut down the river quicker : That may be the case but do you really think with the high water this year you would of bar fished in June, and some other fellow even mentioned May, that made me laugh. Yup, blame it all on the bb'ers and in the meantime I'll be laughing with friends and drinking a frosty. See Yah !!!!
Mmm.You are really showing your ignorance on this one.Im betting your a young fella with limited fishing experience. You bet we were fishing springs in May,long before BB was even a thought.
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So I have been reading a lot of this thread and I have a few things to say in regards to some of the "point of views"
Some people have NO CLUE what they are doing when it comes to fishing. Fishing is one of those activities where you now have to pretty much be taught or guided into the sport.
I was taught to bottom bounce, invested in bb'ing gear and thats almost the full extent of my salmon fishing. A lot of people view it as negative and I can understand why. But maybe some people are too intimidated, or dont know enough to try other techniques. I would probably have better luck making a fly rod into a spear and spear fishing than to even try casting, picking a fly, etc.
Last year I tried float fishing the vedder in the fall. I watched how to videos and read articles but that only goes so far. As a younger guy it gets intimidating going into a shop and pretty much asking/saying "hey, i have no clue what im doing, what gear to use, what method to fish with said gear." and that is why I go out, bottom bounce, " snag, floss, whatever" my salmon and eat em up.
Also having invested in bb gear I am strapped for funds for other gear. I would love to learn how to fish a centerpin, float fish properly, fly fish... etc.
So before everyone just thrashes the sh** out of bottom bouncing be a sport do something about it. Offer to teach, post videos, post things that you've found helpful. I know there is this huge secrecy thing with fishing, but I swear that wont help anything.
Therein lies the problem. There are alot like you who are introduced to fishing on the Fraser flossing sockeye and since that's all they know, take it to other rivers. I cringe when I see people using 50 lb braid, 4/0 hooks on the Vedder.
To me its a copout to say that you are too intimidated to go into a shop and ask how to float fish properly. How do you think I learned? This was long before there was even an internet or how to videos. I went to Berry's, told them that I wanted to float fish for Coho and they hooked me up with decent roe, the proper sized hooks and line. I went straight to the river and invested alot of time watching other people floatfishing (who were successful) I was not too afraid to ask questions. I took home two coho the first time out and never looked back. 25 years later I'm still learning something new every year. New spots, new way of preparing bait or new fly patterns. It never stops. That's what makes sportsfishing so fun. I'm not bragging or anything, but now I am at the point where my buddies and I can go to almost any run on the Vedder and more likely than not outfish everyone else there. We have so much confidence in the bait we are using, where we are fishing etc.. and all of it is SELF TAUGHT.
I don't know, it seems the generation nowadays expect things to be handed to them.
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Therein lies the problem. There are alot like you who are introduced to fishing on the Fraser flossing sockeye and since that's all they know, take it to other rivers. I cringe when I see people using 50 lb braid, 4/0 hooks on the Vedder.
To me its a copout to say that you are too intimidated to go into a shop and ask how to float fish properly. How do you think I learned? This was long before there was even an internet or how to videos. I went to Berry's, told them that I wanted to float fish for Coho and they hooked me up with decent roe, the proper sized hooks and line. I went straight to the river and invested alot of time watching other people floatfishing (who were successful) I was not too afraid to ask questions. I took home two coho the first time out and never looked back. 25 years later I'm still learning something new every year. New spots, new way of preparing bait or new fly patterns. It never stops. That's what makes sportsfishing so fun. I'm not bragging or anything, but now I am at the point where my buddies and I can go to almost any run on the Vedder and more likely than not outfish everyone else there. We have so much confidence in the bait we are using, where we are fishing etc.. and all of it is SELF TAUGHT.
I don't know, it seems the generation nowadays expect things to be handed to them.
I don't expect everything to be handed to me. Some people dont have the luxury of walking in to a shop and dropping whatever amount of money on a set up. As I stated I learned to bb. I was given a spare set up to use before I got my own. Huge advantage. my point is it seems like the there is a lot of pissing and moaning about bouncing yet not a lot of people desire to lend a hand and encourage a camaraderie directed at fixing the problem.
Its easy to sit behind a computer or even behind your rod on the river and make comments, put bouncers down but what have you (not personally you whom im quoting) done to better things at the end of the day.
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I don't expect everything to be handed to me. Some people dont have the luxury of walking in to a shop and dropping whatever amount of money on a set up. As I stated I learned to bb. I was given a spare set up to use before I got my own. Huge advantage. my point is it seems like the there is a lot of pissing and moaning about bouncing yet not a lot of people desire to lend a hand and encourage a camaraderie directed at fixing the problem.
Its easy to sit behind a computer or even behind your rod on the river and make comments, put bouncers down but what have you (not personally you whom im quoting) done to better things at the end of the day.
Unless you are using sturgeon gear to floss on the Fraser, you can use the same rod and reel to float fish on the vedder. Hey it might not be the best but it can be done. So all that gas to Hope, the cost of 3 oz betties, the cost of 4/0 hooks etc.. are cheaper than a few floats, a tub of roe and a few small hooks? really? poor excuse in my opinion.
Look I've done my share of flossing for Socks in the past but I knew what it was all about. Nothing more than just a harvest. I didn't talk about it, didn't take or post hero shots or brag about hooking 20 or 30 in a day. Just took my two Socks and left. Now I don't even do that anymore because personally I have more enjoyable things to do. There is too much glorification of what is essentially a meat fest. The sooner that flossing is advertised as such the better off we would be.
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Always the same debate
My self, if I chose to partake in the Sockeye fishery when its open then yes BB is pretty much the only way to take them
For all other species I use different methods
But I look at it like this, if you want to buy a sock from the store, well my friends thats called netting, do it your self or netted...whats really more ethical? Damn if you do or damned if you do, I wonder which method causes a greater depletion of this resource?
Whole damn thread is about a method of targeting, yet commercial fishing with the factory ships and nets is OK?
Thats where this whole argument becomes moot to me. Arguing about which lock is better while the cow wanders out of the barn LOL :D
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Unless you are using sturgeon gear to floss on the Fraser, you can use the same rod and reel to float fish on the vedder. Hey it might not be the best but it can be done.
Noted.
Think I could use sturgeon gear to bar fish spring?
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So I have been reading a lot of this thread and I have a few things to say in regards to some of the "point of views"
Some people have NO CLUE what they are doing when it comes to fishing. Fishing is one of those activities where you now have to pretty much be taught or guided into the sport.
I was taught to bottom bounce, invested in bb'ing gear and thats almost the full extent of my salmon fishing. A lot of people view it as negative and I can understand why. But maybe some people are too intimidated, or dont know enough to try other techniques. I would probably have better luck making a fly rod into a spear and spear fishing than to even try casting, picking a fly, etc.
Last year I tried float fishing the vedder in the fall. I watched how to videos and read articles but that only goes so far. As a younger guy it gets intimidating going into a shop and pretty much asking/saying "hey, i have no clue what im doing, what gear to use, what method to fish with said gear." and that is why I go out, bottom bounce, " snag, floss, whatever" my salmon and eat em up.
Also having invested in bb gear I am strapped for funds for other gear. I would love to learn how to fish a centerpin, float fish properly, fly fish... etc.
So before everyone just thrashes the sh** out of bottom bouncing be a sport do something about it. Offer to teach, post videos, post things that you've found helpful. I know there is this huge secrecy thing with fishing, but I swear that wont help anything.
Thats where web sites like Rodney's come into place. This site is so helpful for new anglers. Watch some videos on this site, ask questions(they wont kill you), ask for advice. The internet is a powerful thing these days and can lead you in the right direction if you know where to look. dont be shy when going to tackle stores and asking questions, thats what they want because they want to sell you tackle/bait. All the fellows working at tackle stores all started fishing the same as you.
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Noted.
Think I could use sturgeon gear to bar fish spring?
Absolutely, although it can be touch to chuck lead with a shorter Rod. As for your other posts there are lots of guys trying to influence anglers to fish by other methods. Rod is fighting the good fish, and has tons of articles on how to catch fish using the gear you already own.
I actually understand your point of view, this is how you learned to fish. As mentioned this is the failure of this fishery, a group of new anglers that only knows how to snag.
My argument is with the guys like Athezone that know better, and show so much ingorance about this fishery:
"And as for the people complaining about bb'ing saying that it will shut down the river quicker : That may be the case but do you really think with the high water this year you would of bar fished in June, and some other fellow even mentioned May, that made me laugh. Yup, blame it all on the bb'ers and in the meantime I'll be laughing with friends and drinking a frosty. See Ya"
He knows this fishery is a loser so he keeps making lame my friend excuses as to why he keeps doing. Here is a guy that doesn't even realize that there is a popular creek mouth fishery and that the creek mouths were pounding out fish this year in full freshet. We couldn't kill them in June, cause if we could him and his troop of snaggers would have been trying to find any open piece of gravel to toss 10' leaders. The guy doesn't care if the river gets shut down as long as he can bonk his "reds" in the easiest method possible.
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Just a thought but I think we need a shame campaign to call out the guides that are still flossing springs. There are a number of guides - like Rod Toth, Wade Gienow - that have not participated in this fishery for years, at the expense of their business. Guys like this take the long view - that if we can create lower impact, higher quality fisheries on the Fraser we can have longer seasons.
Shame campaigns work - think of the smoking campaigns of the last ten year, and the MSC and Oceanwise programs for restaurants. I'd love to highlight guides that are promoting a sustainable fishery, and identify those that are trying to squeeze every buck out the river. That way people would have a choice when they book a charter to choose the guide that best represents their beliefs on this issue.
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Absolutely, although it can be touch to chuck lead with a shorter Rod. As for your other posts there are lots of guys trying to influence anglers to fish by other methods. Rod is fighting the good fish, and has tons of articles on how to catch fish using the gear you already own.
I actually understand your point of view, this is how you learned to fish. As mentioned this is the failure of this fishery, a group of new anglers that only knows how to snag.
My argument is with the guys like Athezone that know better, and show so much ingorance about this fishery:
"And as for the people complaining about bb'ing saying that it will shut down the river quicker : That may be the case but do you really think with the high water this year you would of bar fished in June, and some other fellow even mentioned May, that made me laugh. Yup, blame it all on the bb'ers and in the meantime I'll be laughing with friends and drinking a frosty. See Ya"
He knows this fishery is a loser so he keeps making lame *** excuses as to why he keeps doing. Here is a guy that doesn't even realize that there is a popular creek mouth fishery and that the creek mouths were pounding out fish this year in full freshet. We couldn't kill them in June, cause if we could him and his troop of snaggers would have been trying to find any open piece of gravel to toss 10' leaders. The guy doesn't care if the river gets shut down as long as he can bonk his "reds" in the easiest method possible.
I don't need to make lame *** excuses oolichan I let you and the anti-bb'ers do it for me. I've been bb'ing since it opened oh' so many years ago and throughout all those years of being a member of FWR I never once said Jack because I knew what would occur. Only reason I did this year was because I needed some entertainment and I knew the know-it-alls on this site would provide it. Oh, and your shame campaign is totally 100% effective. I think I'll share it with my friends when I'm fishing this time tomorrow night. I'm sure they'll all want to fold up their rods and leave and never return. All the Best ooly, think of me this time tomorrow cus' you know where I'll be. Best !!!
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I don't need to make lame *** excuses oolichan I let you and the anti-bb'ers do it for me. I've been bb'ing since it opened oh' so many years ago and throughout all those years of being a member of FWR I never once said Jack because I knew what would occur. Only reason I did this year was because I needed some entertainment and I knew the know-it-alls on this site would provide it. Oh, and your shame campaign is totally 100% effective. I think I'll share it with my friends when I'm fishing this time tomorrow night. I'm sure they'll all want to fold up their rods and leave and never return. All the Best ooly, think of me this time tomorrow cus' you know where I'll be. Best !!!
Once again you show your ignorance to the sport of angling. You are one of these Johnny come latelys who only knows how to fish one way. One day you will grow a pair. ::)
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I don't need to make lame *** excuses oolichan I let you and the anti-bb'ers do it for me. I've been bb'ing since it opened oh' so many years ago and throughout all those years of being a member of FWR I never once said Jack because I knew what would occur. Only reason I did this year was because I needed some entertainment and I knew the know-it-alls on this site would provide it. Oh, and your shame campaign is totally 100% effective. I think I'll share it with my friends when I'm fishing this time tomorrow night. I'm sure they'll all want to fold up their rods and leave and never return. All the Best ooly, think of me this time tomorrow cus' you know where I'll be. Best !!!
Monkey see monkey do.
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brag about hooking 20 or 30 in a day.
No brag, just fact.
When you're not bonking the first pinner, coloured up, face-hooked sock you reel in it's not difficult to release 5-10. Maybe stay another hour and release another 5 or 6 while trying your luck at a pink or spring (you're making the 200km round trip so may as well enjoy the day-off as much as you can; with an actual battle).
I grew up bait fishing for rainbows in lakes and have progressed to the fly. This year I've been floating fishing the Cap for 'hos as well, and have gotten a few on roe in the Vedder years back. Like others, bottom bouncing is just another form of angling that I currently enjoy. It's may not be the prettiest, with half the fish hooked in the side of the head, but hey; hero casting feels great, the lack of needing to watch your float constantly is relaxing, and standing waist deep in that flow on a sunny day is enjoyable as well. Add some fresh fish and a couple of wobbly pops to the equation and it makes for a good day.
Perhaps as I explore other methods on angling over the years bottom bouncing for sox may fall out of favour with me. Perhaps I'll do it until it's outlawed or I'm too old to crank a reel; those sox sure are tasty. I'm sure that the results of the recent tagging will have some influence on my decision.
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imo just the fact that you said you got 20 to 30 is BRAGGING. Boasting about how many sox you floss tells a lot about a person
I own 5 reels and 4 rods. I also own 3 cameras and 4 lenses. I have 12 pairs of socks too.
Am I bragging?
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I don't need to make lame *** excuses oolichan I let you and the anti-bb'ers do it for me. I've been bb'ing since it opened oh' so many years ago and throughout all those years of being a member of FWR I never once said Jack because I knew what would occur. Only reason I did this year was because I needed some entertainment and I knew the know-it-alls on this site would provide it. Oh, and your shame campaign is totally 100% effective. I think I'll share it with my friends when I'm fishing this time tomorrow night. I'm sure they'll all want to fold up their rods and leave and never return. All the Best ooly, think of me this time tomorrow cus' you know where I'll be. Best !!!
Dude, I'm not envious of where you will be. Having your sister drive you to the river to snag fish isn't a position that will create much envy. I've got a jet, work from home, and live on the Harrison. I could klunk a spring bouncing every day. I get the temptation to bounce but I'm taking long position on this one.
And the idea of shaming wouldn't be directed at you and your buds. You've demonstrated that you have no shame. The idea is to highlight the guides on the river that are working against the best interests of the fishery.
So get out there tonight, tie up those 15' leaders and get your bounce on. Just know where this all ends, and that you are an active participant in what will be the closure of the river in likely less than a decade.
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imo just the fact that you said you got 20 to 30 is BRAGGING. Boasting about how many sox you floss tells a lot about a person
Lol, whatever man. All I said is I had an approximately 20 fish day least season and had a relatively good time doing it; way better than the one fish day a week later, just after a commercial opening. Did the fact that half the fish were hooked in the side of the head dampen the experience and get me thinking? Sure, but it was still an enjoyable outing. I wasn't boasting about it -- just sharing my point of view -- and it's unfortunate that you perceive me as a braggart. In fact, I'm surprised at this perception as I thought that a fish every 2-3 casts -- when they're in there -- is common, especially after what I've seen on the bar and after reading about how effective this technique is considered to be at hooking fish.
So get out there tonight, tie up those 15' leaders and get your bounce on. Just know where this all ends, and that you are an active participant in what will be the closure of the river in likely less than a decade.
Hmmm, interesting to learn that bb'ing has pushed back the opening dates. Thanks for the insights!
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No brag, just fact.
When you're not bonking the first pinner, coloured up sock you reel in it's not difficult to release 5-10. Maybe stay another hour and release another 5 or 6 while trying your luck at a pink or spring (you're making the 200km round trip so may as well enjoy the day-off as much as you can; with an actual battle).
I grew up bait fishing for rainbows in lakes and have progressed to the fly. This year I've been floating fishing the Cap for 'hos as well, and have gotten a few on roe in the Vedder years back. Like others, bottom bouncing is just another form of angling that I currently enjoy. It's may not be the prettiest, with half the fish hooked in the side of the head, but hey; hero casting feels great, the lack of needing to watch your float constantly is relaxing, and standing waist deep in that flow on a sunny day is enjoyable as well. Add some fresh fish and a couple of wobbly pops to the equation and it makes for a good day.
Perhaps as I explore other methods on angling over the years bottom bouncing for sox may fall out of favour with me. Perhaps I'll do it until it's outlawed or I'm too old to crank a reel; those sox sure are tasty. I'm sure that the results of the recent tagging will have some influence on my decision.
Yes it will fall out of favor with you, maybe this year? ;D Most of us did this at one time before we saw what a poor way to take our fish when we can catch all we need by means where the fish bite.
I am in my 9th year or more of making the bb's I used into bar weights. ;D ;D
There is many in the same boat with more coming on board each season... ;D ;D ;D
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Yes it will fall out of favor with you, maybe this year? ;D Most of us did this at one time before we saw what a poor way to take our fish when we can catch all we need by means where the fish bite.
I am in my 9th year or more of making the bb's I used into bar weights. ;D ;D
There is many in the same boat with more coming on board each season... ;D ;D ;D
Haha, probably not this year -- as I don't have the luxury to go fishing more than a few times per year -- but perhaps in a season or two. I bought a bunch of plunking gear last week and have been meaning to check out that inlet fishery that ooli mentioned, for about a season now, so my Scale Bar days may be over soon enough.
Even though sox are tasty, I prefer battling large chinook (which are pretty darn tasty too). I've spent 4+ hours bottom bouncing on that bar with no spring to show for it, on one or two occasions, so I imagine that barfing or float fishing can't be too much less productive. I've read reports of the Vedder being very productive -- in season -- for reds, when fished appropriately (roe under a float), so I'll be sure to check that out next season as well.
Cheers
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Hey Zabber, no need to stop if you enjoy your fishing on the bar with friends and with good result. Who care about what these bfers say? They are jealous as hell about our catches and yet they have a 'mental prison' about fishing so that they psyche themselves out from harvesting this wonderful resource of nature on the Fraser. It is their choice and I respect that. They can wait till the Fraser drops to a level they can fish with bf. Good luck guys. Hey, there are many ways to go about fishing here and in the world, netting, spearing, trapping and what-have-u. DFO allows the salmon on Fraser to be flossed with a rod and a hook. So be it. You have a problem with it. I can understand. I and many others don't. On smaller systems with water clarity, I fish with short floating. With steelhead, I fish with roe short floating, or with spoons and spinners, even bb with 3 ft leader with small spin & glo. There is no 'sainted' method out there that applies for all river conditions and water clarity as well as the species of salmon you are after.
Hey Athezone, somebody thinks you are a young beginner with no idea how to fish besides bb. ;D How funny. Just the opposite. He is a seasoned pro who just happens to enjoy bb'ing for salmon on the Fraser like hundreds of other fishermen.Thanks for sharing your awesome spot to me and it was so nice to meet up with a super friendly and helpful gentleman. Yeup! Your spot is surely way better than Scale. It was a slow day but I lucked out again with another red. Thanks for helping to net my fish. 3 springs in 4 trips. Not bad. Sure enjoy meeting whole bunch of great guys there at the bar. The spirit of camaraderie among fishing friends there makes the trip and the spot that much more enjoyable. Thanks for showing me Shangri-la among bb bars. :D
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Hey Zabber, no need to stop if you enjoy your fishing on the bar with friends and with good result. Who care about what these bfers say? They are jealous as hell about our catches and yet they have a 'mental prison' about fishing so that they psyche themselves out from harvesting this wonderful resource of nature on the Fraser. It is their choice and I respect that. They can wait till the Fraser drops to a level they can fish with bf. Good luck guys. Hey, there are many ways to go about fishing here and in the world, netting, spearing, trapping and what-have-u. DFO allows the salmon on Fraser to be flossed with a rod and a hook. So be it. You have a problem with it. I can understand. I and many others don't. On smaller systems with water clarity, I fish with short floating. With steelhead, I fish with roe short floating, or with spoons and spinners, even bb with 3 ft leader with small spin & glo. There is no 'sainted' method out there that applies for all river conditions and water clarity as well as the species of salmon you are after.
Hey Athezone, somebody thinks you are a young beginner with no idea how to fish besides bb. ;D How funny. Just the opposite. He is a seasoned pro who just happens to enjoy bb'ing for salmon on the Fraser like hundreds of other fishermen.Thanks for sharing your awesome spot to me and it was so nice to meet up with a super friendly and helpful gentleman. Yeup! Your spot is surely way better than Scale. It was a slow day but I lucked out again with another red. Thanks for helping to net my fish. 3 springs in 4 trips. Not bad. Sure enjoy meeting whole bunch of great guys there at the bar. The spirit of camaraderie among fishing friends there makes the trip and the spot that much more enjoyable. Thanks for showing me Shangri-la among bb bars. :D
Doesnt matter if theres a 1000 guys fishing the way you do. Doesnt make it right fishing friend. Lol
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Not jealous liketofish, pissed at snaggers who claim its a sport. Hmmmmm.....sox dont bite.....ok so we snag problem solved. You sir are no better than a poacher...sorry but I call em as I see em.
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Not jealous liketofish, pissed at snaggers who claim its a sport. Hmmmmm.....sox dont bite.....ok so we snag problem solved. You sir are no better than a poacher...sorry but I call em as I see em.
Go ahead and bash more. Shame on you that you can't continue to debate reasonably and can only vent with such imflamatory comment or shaming remarks. You act no different then PETA members shaming us fishermen for animal cruelty. Lucky for you that this site allows this kind of bashing of bbers unchecked. Any of us bbers telling you guys to put up or shut up, we get deleted. Pathetic. But hey, go ahead bashing more. We are enjoying our delicious and legally caught salmon. If you like to eat your Fraser salmon, you have to get it from FN or pay $$$ for it at stores. But remember, if you do so, you are just using agents to fill your stomach. We catch our fish with our own sweat. But judging from you earlier statement that you stop fishing for salmon, you are probably a vegetarian. So why do we even have a fishing debate with a non-fish eating poster. You could be just a PETA troll, LOL.
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Not jealous liketofish, pissed at snaggers who claim its a sport. Hmmmmm.....sox dont bite.....ok so we snag problem solved. You sir are no better than a poacher...sorry but I call em as I see em.
As long as DFO doesn't consider it poaching, I would suggest you not condemn people... remember to many Buddhists we're ALL senseless, cruel humans for torturing animals. There will always be someone "holier-than-thou", so howzabout we don't go about the name calling and stick with factual arguments. Hate the game, not the player..
Personal attacks are a quick road to silence on this site.
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Go ahead and bash more. Shame on you that you can't continue to debate reasonably and can only vent with such imflamatory comment or shaming remarks. You act no different then PETA members shaming us fishermen for animal cruelty. Lucky for you that this site allows this kind of bashing of bbers unchecked. Any of us bbers telling you guys to put up or shut up, we get deleted. Pathetic. But hey, go ahead bashing more. We are enjoying our delicious and legally caught salmon. If you like to eat your Fraser salmon, you have to get it from FN or pay $$$ for it at stores. But remember, if you do so, you are just using agents to fill your stomach. We catch our fish with our own sweat. But judging from you earlier statement that you stop fishing for salmon, you are probably a vegetarian. So why do we even have a fishing debate with a non-fish eating poster. You could be just a PETA troll, LOL.
My house is behind a FN complex so yes thats where my sox come from....Very cheap too... Yes I belong to PETA..People Eating Tasty Animals.
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My house is behind a FN complex so yes thats where my sox come from....Very cheap too... Yes I belong to PETA..People Eating Tasty Animals.
Your buying sockeye off the FN and your call flossers poachers? You do know that what your doing is actually illegal right? The people who are flossing fish are actually getting their fish legally. You couldn't pay me to buy a fish off the FN.
If the run is so small that their is no commercial, or sport opening than the FN should only be getting a limited opening for food fish and thats it. If they have enough to be selling than they are taking way too many fish!!!
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Your buying sockeye off the FN and your call flossers poachers? You do know that what your doing is actually illegal right? The people who are flossing fish are actually getting their fish legally. You couldn't pay me to buy a fish off the FN.
If the run is so small that their is no commercial, or sport opening than the FN should only be getting a limited opening for food fish and thats it. If they have enough to be selling than they are taking way too many fish!!!
Ayup. You have to severely punish the buyers to make that problem go away.
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Your buying sockeye off the FN and your call flossers poachers? You do know that what your doing is actually illegal right? The people who are flossing fish are actually getting their fish legally. You couldn't pay me to buy a fish off the FN.
If the run is so small that their is no commercial, or sport opening than the FN should only be getting a limited opening for food fish and thats it. If they have enough to be selling than they are taking way too many fish!!!
So right, bbronswyk! If Bassonator is buying soc from FN illegally, and he comes here bashing us for fishing legally and sweating for our catch, then I don't know on what ethical standards his debate/bashing posts are based on. Why even posts here if you are eating your fish illegally? You have lost our respect and credibility as a debater on this thread.
Hey Bass, remember when you buy FN's food fish illegally, and collectively with others who do the same, FN's food-fish nets (legal or illegal) will be in the water more because of increased demand, and with that you are contributing to much more damages to the dwindling sockeye stock. I hate to point out that the 'net' effect will be a lot worse to the fish than even a poacher with a single rod & hook. And we bbers are definitely no poachers (as Dragonspeed clearly stated here). If you are not PETA, then debate responsibly as an adult.
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Wow stirred up a hornets nest did I...lol...If im cutting grass in my backyard and some one offers me 2 fresh sox for 20 hey its my hard earned cash, yup Im gonna go for it.Hows the Sharkfin soup..
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Not stirred up a hornets nest just showed who you really are is all. The hipocracy in your posts boggles the mind. Takes all kinds to make the world turn I guess.
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He should stick to buying the feedlot salmon, at least he wouldn't be breaking the law...
Shameful.
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Ok peeps Ive seen the evil in my ways.....so from now on I hereby swear to purchase only from Steveston commercial boats...was gonna say supermarkets but I like em really fresh...Thanx for steering me right.
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Hey Zabber, no need to stop if you enjoy your fishing on the bar with friends and with good result.
Wouldn't dream of it, I was just saying that I'd enjoy the fishing more if half the sox weren't foul hooked.
If my friends and I can get into 4-6 chinook a piece on roe, under a float, I/we'd probably have a better time than a day where we get into one or two springs (if we're lucky) + a bunch of sox -- some of which end up hooked in the belly or gill -- especially when sockeye aren't open for retention. A 3-7 lb fish on 30 lb test leader isn't exactly much of a battle, and while catching and releasing a number of them can make for some excitement, this doesn't come close to the thrill of a handful of big, hard-fighting springs (imo). And while it's always nice to bring home a fish or two for the Q, I'm not much of a "meat fisherman" so bringing home my quota isn't that important to me; I spend about 3 months in BC these days and my folks don't eat a lot of fish, even though there's usually a good amount sitting there in the deep freeze.
Since I generally don't have the luxury of going fishing more than 5-20 times per year, I have to pick and choose my opportunities. If I find something better, bb'ing Scale Bar (especially when there is no keeps on sox) will very likely move down my list of fishing trip options, as Chris G has predicted. Unfortunately, most of the guys I know are novice fishermen, and my father is a lake guy that usually goes less often than I do, so I don't really have anyone to "show me the ropes" and I rely on sites like this & tackle shops to point me in the right direction. This season I discovered the Cap and, while getting skunked in 4 outings, I found some secluded spots + improved my technique enough so that next summer should be more productive and enjoyable. I've also read reports about the Vedder and have added it to my list of systems to explore some more. In the future I may simply hire a guide to help with the learning curve; life is short ;)
Tight lines!
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Ok peeps Ive seen the evil in my ways.....so from now on I hereby swear to only bottom bounce for my sox...Thanx for steering me right.
Atta booyyyyyyy!!
:D ;D :D ;D :D
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Yeup! I beleive he will not buy from FN at $20 for 2 soc from now on ;D
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Ok peeps Ive seen the evil in my ways.....so from now on I hereby swear to purchase only from Steveston commercial boats...was gonna say supermarkets but I like em really fresh...Thanx for steering me right.
Even if you decide to stop buying them it still doesn't give you the right to judge others who are legally obtaining them. If you never bought them and have never bottom bounced for them than you would have a valid argument. Its like a reformed bottom bouncer. Since he still participated in it at one point he would also have no right in judging those who do.
Myself I am not going to judge anyone. As long as you are not breaking any laws you are ok with me.
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Lo! Fresh NERKA on the Steveston Wharf this weekend. $20-40 a fish!
You're a Pirate for God's sake. Isn't it supposed to be Yo!? Fresh NERKA.................
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Ok peeps Ive seen the evil in my ways.....so from now on I hereby swear to purchase only from Steveston commercial boats...was gonna say supermarkets but I like em really fresh...Thanx for steering me right.
Good man. ;D ;D
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My house is behind a FN complex so yes thats where my sox come from....Very cheap too... Yes I belong to PETA..People Eating Tasty Animals.
When Bassonator posted that I couldn't help but think of Jack Nicholson in " A Few Good Men " where he shouts out " You're damn right I ordered the Code Red " and then is surprised as he's lead away by the sheriffs, lol. One should always think before speaking or even posting. Bassonator then posts :
Wow stirred up a hornets nest did I...lol...If im cutting grass in my backyard and some one offers me 2 fresh sox for 20 hey its my hard earned cash, yup Im gonna go for it.Hows the Sharkfin soup..
I wonder if a bb'er would be so easily forgiven if he typed the same sentences. At any rate I'm sure like all you other intelligent posters that Bass will only buy from the Steveston commercial boats in the future. ;D ;D
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If I had to guess I'd say he's bought even more FN sockeye since the other day when he said he wouldn't anymore.
IMO he's just saying that because he didn't like the ribbing he was getting from the board. ::)
Let's see here, he can go to his back fence and get a couple fish for cheap or he can spend the $ on expensive gas and go all the way to the dock to buy them for twice the price, hmmmm??? I'm betting the car stays parked. ;D
Hopefully I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
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If I had to guess I'd say he's bought even more FN sockeye since the other day when he said he wouldn't anymore.
IMO he's just saying that because he didn't like the ribbing he was getting from the board. ::)
Let's see here, he can go to his back fence and get a couple fish for cheap or he can spend the $ on expensive gas and go all the way to the dock to buy them for twice the price, hmmmm??? I'm betting the car stays parked. ;D
Hopefully I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
Yup your wrong.
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If I had to guess I'd say he's bought even more FN sockeye since the other day when he said he wouldn't anymore.
IMO he's just saying that because he didn't like the ribbing he was getting from the board. ::)
Let's see here, he can go to his back fence and get a couple fish for cheap or he can spend the $ on expensive gas and go all the way to the dock to buy them for twice the price, hmmmm??? I'm betting the car stays parked. ;D
Hopefully I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
;D ;D ;D
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You're a Pirate for God's sake. Isn't it supposed to be Yo!? Fresh NERKA.................
The lastest DFO fishery notice says there is no sport or commercial opening yet. So where are the fresh NERKA from? ;) ;D
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Yup your wrong.
Pics or it didn't happen. ;D ;D ;D
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So where are the fresh NERKA from? ;) ;D
Osoyoos!! ;D ;D
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Yup! A receipt from the dock outlet will convince the doubters. ;D ;)
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Yup your wrong.
I am sure you are a man of your words. ;D ;D
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I call it a zoo too but keep going there. It can be very productive, can hold a lot of people and a summer isnt the same without the long walk, smell of old sockeye, and crossing a desert full of anticipation. ........
You may wish to consider not to continue BB' ing as FOC is asking people not to BB due to incidental hooking of sockeye.
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Although flossing is technically still legal at this point, FOC (dfo) advises that,
"While fishing for chinook and chum salmon, anglers are advised to avoid using
fishing methods such as bottom bouncing that catch sockeye salmon and use other
fishing methods that are selective."
So although legal, is it up to the angler to chose whether he/she feels it is still ethical to go against FOC's advise and continue to floss.
Keep in mind, people's decisions to continue to floss after this advisory in the past has led to spot closures on the Fraser.
Hopefully people make the right choice...
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Okay I gave it two seconds. Considered not Bottom bouncing then thought about the alternative. Bar fishing. Sitting in a chair for long periods of time waiting for a possible bite. Easy decision back to bottom bouncing. Most productive way of catching fish at the scale bar. Actually probably the only way to catch fish at the scale bar. I will politely ask the Indians to stop netting and selling sockeye but we all know that is not going to happen. Where is my bouncing betty?
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Okay I gave it two seconds. Considered not Bottom bouncing then thought about the alternative. Bar fishing. Sitting in a chair for long periods of time waiting for a possible bite. Easy decision back to bottom bouncing. Most productive way of catching fish at the scale bar. Actually probably the only way to catch fish at the scale bar. I will politely ask the Indians to stop netting and selling sockeye but we all know that is not going to happen. Where is my bouncing betty?
Using the FN reason is just a way to make you feel better about something that you shouldnt be doing. Nice excuse!!! Your no better than any FN illegally selling sockeye out of the back of a truck!!!
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Okay I gave it two seconds. Considered not Bottom bouncing then thought about the alternative. Bar fishing. Sitting in a chair for long periods of time waiting for a possible bite. Easy decision back to bottom bouncing. Most productive way of catching fish at the scale bar. Actually probably the only way to catch fish at the scale bar. I will politely ask the Indians to stop netting and selling sockeye but we all know that is not going to happen. Where is my bouncing betty?
If you have time go to the Fraser Valley Salmon Society facebook page and you will see there is more to bar fishing than just catching fish, relaxing is one of them. ;D ;D
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fraser-Valley-Salmon-Society/111769675563789#!/photo.php?fbid=354257531315001&set=a.354257451315009.79328.111769675563789&type=1&theater
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Okay I gave it two seconds. Considered not Bottom bouncing then thought about the alternative. Bar fishing. Sitting in a chair for long periods of time waiting for a possible bite. Easy decision back to bottom bouncing. Most productive way of catching fish at the scale bar. Actually probably the only way to catch fish at the scale bar. I will politely ask the Indians to stop netting and selling sockeye but we all know that is not going to happen. Where is my bouncing betty?
I really hope this was posted after the recent notice: http://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/xnet/content/fns/index.cfm?pg=view_notice&lang=en&DOC_ID=145473&ID=recreational
To reiterate what has been highlighted in other posts:
While fishing for chinook and chum salmon, anglers are advised to avoid using
fishing methods such as bottom bouncing that catch sockeye salmon and use other
fishing methods that are selective.
In other words, leave the betties at home unless you need them to beef up your 16, 18, 20oz pyramids!
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*underlining added for emphasis.
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"anglers are advised to avoid using
fishing methods such as bottom bouncing that catch sockeye"
Why does this not read "The method of bottom bouncing for salmon on the Fraser River is closed and illegal until further notice"? We wouldn't be having this discussion. Okay I have been advised to avoid using this fishing method. Okay I take your advisement or "recommendation" and choose to fish the most productive and legal way of fishing on the Fraser that I know of right now and that is bottom bouncing. I would advise the Indians to use a treble hook instead of nets so they would catch enough fish for their ceremonies and to feed their families but not catch an excess to be able to sell. I am sure they would take my advise and throw their net out.
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native this.. native that... blah blah blah
DFO is asking you to stop BB.
STOP BOTTOM BOUNCING
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Not that I am an expert on this topic but i would be interested to see the numbers from a year like last year that had a rec sockeye opening to compare the percentages of how many fish rec anglers took versus the FN netters? I would assume the rec anglers percentage would the the smallest allocation so why would they only target that group? It seems to me that if the govt was truly concerned about the numbers they should have just shut the whole fishery down this year. Seems a little silly to target a specific group or two while allowing an opening for another. Not to mention the increase in tension between the various groups sense of entitlements on the fish. Regardless, I hope this closure helps out the stocks for future returns.
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Not that I am an expert on this topic but i would be interested to see the numbers from a year like last year that had a rec sockeye opening to compare the percentages of how many fish rec anglers took versus the FN netters? I would assume the rec anglers percentage would the the smallest allocation so why would they only target that group? It seems to me that if the govt was truly concerned about the numbers they should have just shut the whole fishery down this year. Seems a little silly to target a specific group or two while allowing an opening for another. Not to mention the increase in tension between the various groups sense of entitlements on the fish. Regardless, I hope this closure helps out the stocks for future returns.
(1) Conservation
(2) F/N, Food and Ceremonial
(3) Recreational fisheries
This order will be not be changed iby FOC or the Federal Government, no use for any of us to be squawking about the F/N fishery as it wil not be changed
If people continue to floss when requested by FOC not to, things will just get worse for us and we can then take up lake fishing or golf. :(
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DFO
what a joke!!
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Why does this not read "The method of bottom bouncing for salmon on the Fraser River is closed and illegal until further notice"? We wouldn't be having this discussion. Okay I have been advised to avoid using this fishing method. Okay I take your advisement or "recommendation" and choose to fish the most productive and legal way of fishing on the Fraser that I know of right now and that is bottom bouncing.
fishyfish, I'm not sure how much clearer they can make it:
The first principle of selective fishing is to avoid catching non-targeted
stocks. This means that anglers should use methods that do not catch sockeye.
The following fishing methods enable anglers to catch chinook and chum salmon
and avoid sockeye salmon interceptions:
Bar Fishing
Trolling Spoons at Creek mouths
Float Fishing
Pulling Plugs
Fly Fishing
The fact that "there are no recreational fishing opportunities for sockeye in Region 2," and that "avoiding sockeye" is recommended suggests that there is no fishing for this species (including CnR). In other words: bottom bouncing is currently closed on the Fraser (*my interpretation).
I'm sure you are free to ignore these requests, and probably won't get a ticket for bb'ing if DFO comes around to check licences. However, if you believe what others have said, then you -- along with others that do so -- are threatening the future of this fishery, and possibly others, by continuing to bb for chinook while a "low run" of sockeye are passing through. One fish today, no more next year.
Until you give all of the above fishing methods an honest try, it would be best if you left the betties at home.
Myself, I'll be fishing for chi's tomorrow; using a float. Even if it's just as productive as the four hours I spent hucking betties without a spring to show for it I reckon I'll drag out fewer belly-hooked sox while I'm at it and experience fewer piercings of my waders by guys that can't handle their 15 foot leaders properly, so will probably have a better time as a result. I've never tried this method of fishing for springs, but have heard good things.
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You left out the commercial openings. But true enough best to wait for big sockeye runs if your into the bbing thing. Or it will make a good argument for them to shut er down. If your going to spend 5 hours trying to bb a chinook then you might as well get out the lawn chair bbq and bell on the rod. If they do shut it down hopefully they just expand on the scale bar area as that place attracks the fish hogs who don't care much about ethics.
Bent Rods posted some damn good links to how to fish without bbing and people should read them. Years back most people would fish the mouths of streams going into the Fraser to get chinook, hint hint. I know of a few places nearby that you can get chinook but I don't keep them so rarely go them.
I fish for Kokanee from lakes that have decent sized ones. Never have to worry about when the run comes in and I don't get a nasty sunburn to boot. Taste even better than the sockeye from the Fraser. I love kokes.
but know well enough that a closure is going to be inevitable because it always ends up like that :(
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You left out the commercial openings. But true enough best to wait for big sockeye runs if your into the bbing thing. Or it will make a good argument for them to shut er down. If your going to spend 5 hours trying to bb a chinook then you might as well get out the lawn chair bbq and bell on the rod. If they do shut it down hopefully they just expand on the scale bar area as that place attracks the fish hogs who don't care much about ethics.
Bent Rods posted some damn good links to how to fish without bbing and people should read them. Years back most people would fish the mouths of streams going into the Fraser to get chinook, hint hint. I know of a few places nearby that you can get chinook but I don't keep them so rarely go them.
I fish for Kokanee from lakes that have decent sized ones. Never have to worry about when the run comes in and I don't get a nasty sunburn to boot. Taste even better than the sockeye from the Fraser. I love kokes.
but know well enough that a closure is going to be inevitable because it always ends up like that :(
Didn't bother to put them in.
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native this.. native that... blah blah blah
DFO is asking you to stop BB.
STOP BOTTOM BOUNCING
Oh yah. This will stop the hordes of BBs from plying our local waters. Lol.
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Okay. A great challenge for the quality fishermen on this site. Lets starts seeing some pictures of springs caught and landed using these methods at the scale bar:
Bar Fishing
Trolling Spoons at Creek mouths
Float Fishing
Pulling Plugs
Fly Fishing
No cheating now. Pics using the above methods. Would love to see the float or spoon or fly in the pic that caught the fish. Are the guide services using these methods? Print the pics under this heading. Be legit now.
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Would love to hear an honest report from you Zabber! How the fishing was using a float on the Fraser.
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I just got a call from a cousin of mine who went seining with a FN. They caught 300 sockeye and sold them without problem for $3000 in a day. Another friend of theirs made $30,000 in one day. And we are talking about fish that are being RELEASED caught by B.B. What a joke.
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Would love to hear an honest report from you Zabber! How the fishing was using a float on the Fraser.
Actually, I went up last Sunday and think I may have had a bite. The guy I was fishing with swears he had one on for a few seconds, on his second cast, but drag was loose and it shook the hook. Both could have been snags but he's seasoned so I believe him. There were sockeye moving in to spawn so may have been a cuttie vs. a spring??...
In any case, heading out tomorrow morning so will let you know.
Again, I've heard good things. In fact, another poster was praising this effectiveness of this method of fishing in this very thread.
*fingers crossed* :P
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I just got a call from a cousin of mine who went seining with a FN. They caught 300 sockeye and sold them without problem for $3000 in a day. Another friend of theirs made $30,000 in one day. And we are talking about fish that are being RELEASED caught by B.B. What a joke.
First Nations doing what ever with fish is a totally different issue all together. ::) Quit using it as a crutch to do your snagging. >:(
It's fishermen {if you can call yourself one ::)} like you that give the "sport" a bad name. Time to quit acting so hard done by and do what's right, or is catching a fish by way of BBing that important to you ?
You want pics and all that, take a look here, it has everything you need or want to see/hear.
http://bentrods.ca/contact-us (http://bentrods.ca/contact-us)
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"Quit using it as a crutch to do your snagging. "
Bottom bouncing and snagging are two different things. Bottom bouncing ( although not advised at this time) is completely legal. Snagging is not. I use a single barbless hook. I believe "snagging"is what the FN do with a large treble hook weighted with lead wrapped around the hook. They let it sink to the bottom and pull hard while reeling in. I am a fishermen. I love to fish. I do all kinds of fishing including bottom bouncing on the Fraser. I release a fish that is not caught in and around the mouth as required by law. I keep fish that I am legally allowed to take. Lots of "fishermen" catch fish bottom bouncing when the situation requires it. I use a gang troll on a lake and a float and pencil lead on the vedder. I fish for fun and as a sport and I resent you saying I give the sport a bad name.
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There is no law saying you cant BB,so until then people are going to do it, so no more crying.
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"Bottom bouncing on the Fraser is the white mans way of snagging since the fish aren't biting and have NO CLUE that a hook is about to lodge/SNAG in the side {or close to} it's mouth"
How the hell do you really know what goes on 20 ft. under the water in the Fraser river. The hook is in the same spot of the mouth when I catch them in the Fraser as was the fish I caught in Osoyoos using a downrigger flasher and a hoochie. You have nothing but your assumption. Your perception may or may or may not be right. Once again your perception of bottom bouncing being snagging is only your opinion ( and others). Even if the fish don't bite like I am sure you think all of the fish you catch do, what is the difference if a fish is landed with a hook in its mouth. Does it really make if a difference if the fish lying dead at the bottom of your boat struck out of anger or not. Does it make it any difference that your fish was angry and struck your lure. I don't know if you will agree or not but the fish are not feeding on your lures, they are striking out of anger. In my opinion the experience and final result are the same. The fish I catch have a hook in their mouth as do yours. Although I don't really know for sure the water I see in your videos is very conducive to using lures. You have a large boat and get to spots that are more conducive to lure fishing. I don't think a lure or any of the other methods suggested by the DFO will be productive at the scale bar. I know how I can catch fish at the scale bar. It is productive. I don't have the time like maybe you do to go to different spots to try a different type of fishing. If I am suggested a particular spot that I can get to without a boat that I can productively catch fish at using the methods you want me to use then fire away. Guides are usually reluctant to talk about their spots. I fish at the scale bar and I bottom bounce.
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The hook is in the same spot of the mouth when I catch them in the Fraser as was the fish I caught in Osoyoos using a downrigger flasher and a hoochie.
Either you haven't been bb'ing long and/or have been exceptionally lucky, or you're full of my smelly socks. My money is on the latter. I've reeled in close to 100 sox in the few times I've been out bb'ing and half were hooked in the right side of the head at Scale Bar (strongly suggesting they were lined). The statistics from a recent study are even higher than that (83%?).
I release a fish that is not caught in and around the mouth as required by law.
FYI, a fish hooked AROUND the mouth is foul-hooked. A fish hooked anywhere but IN the mouth is snagged. It is illegal to retain foul-hooked/snagged fish (i.e. those hooked around the mouth).
Once again your perception of bottom bouncing being snagging is only your opinion ( and others).
Yes, faulty opinion. See previous posts as to why bb'ing is not technically snagging, as long as there is no intent to hook the fish anywhere other than inside the mouth.
I don't have the time ... to go to different spots to try a different type of fishing. If I am suggested a particular spot that I can get to without a boat that I can productively catch fish at using the methods you want me to use then fire away. Guides are usually reluctant to talk about their spots. I fish at the scale bar and I bottom bounce.
I too pity you. Your reluctance to better yourself as an angler and individual is saddening.
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What is more ethical having a fish strike out of anger or actually feeding on a presentation. Maybe you should be using worms and roe because then the fish will feed instead of being angry.
In both cases you're bringing out some sort of instinct, whether that be territorial/aggresion or feeding. When flossing you're simply attempting to hook the animal in the mouth without eliciting any sort of instinct from it. It's generally accepted that enticing a fish to strike a presentation is more ethical or "sporting" than attempting to simply hook the animal.
FYI, there was an article in The Province about a decade ago that reported that scientists have discovered that fish don't feel pain the way you and I do. I suspect similar studies were done because Kurt Cobain sang "it's okay to eat fish 'cuz they don't have any feelings;" fish probably don't get angry.
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Besides BB'ing, how would you target SOX on the fraser?
Thnx
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Besides BB'ing, how would you target SOX on the fraser?
Thnx
Bently got one on a bar rig ;)
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Bently got one on a bar rig ;)
This is true,
I will add this, if you get perturbed being called a clown or a wanker, then I apologize,it was wrong on my part to do so, sorry if I hurt anyone's little feelings. ;D
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Apology accepted, thank you Bentley. Very classy of you !!!!
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FYI, a fish hooked AROUND the mouth is foul-hooked. A fish hooked anywhere but IN the mouth is snagged. It is illegal to retain foul-hooked/snagged fish (i.e. those hooked around the mouth).
Actually that's your interpretation of the regulation which says: "snagging (foul hooking)… hooking a fish in any other part of its body other than
the mouth."
It does not say the fish must be hooked "inside" the mouth. While lure fishing in a lake or river the fish will often get hooked outside the mouth as it strikes the lure and the hook becomes lodged outside the mouth... While trolling bait in the ocean, it is common to use a trailing hook which is often lodged outside the mouth.
My interpretation and I believe the CO's interpretation is, as long as the hook is anywhere around the mouth, it is legal...
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Actually that's your interpretation of the regulation which says: "snagging (foul hooking)… hooking a fish in any other part of its body other than
the mouth."
It does not say the fish must be hooked "inside" the mouth. While lure fishing in a lake or river the fish will often get hooked outside the mouth as it strikes the lure and the hook becomes lodged outside the mouth... While trolling bait in the ocean, it is common to use a trailing hook which is often lodged outside the mouth.
My interpretation and I believe the CO's interpretation is, as long as the hook is anywhere around the mouth, it is legal...
While I agree with the CO's and your interpretation, people must understand that when a fish is "lined" it is "intentionally snagged" as the fish has no idea it's about to have a hook lodged into it's mouth "area".
For people who think differently, I think it's only a matter of time before they fall off the cloud their on. ::)
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While I agree with the CO's and your interpretation, people must understand that when a fish is "lined" it is "intentionally snagged" as the fish has no idea it's about to have a hook lodged into it's mouth "area".
For people who think differently, I think it's only a matter of time before they fall off the cloud their on. ::)
However the question has to be asked.... If a sockeye is by definition "intentionally snagged" why doesn't fisheries write tickets for it? Intentional snagging is illegal after all.
Edit: While I don't approve of harassing migrating sockeye that you are not allowed to keep, I disagree that BB is intentionally snagging. To intentionally snag a fish, I believe you need to be able to see it and be attempting to hook it anywhere other than the mouth. While I'm not a lawyer, I think it would be difficult to convict someone of snagging a fish that they couldn't see. A fish that bites a hook probably has no idea it is about to bite a hook either..... ;)
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However the question has to be asked.... If a sockeye is by definition "intentionally snagged" why doesn't fisheries write tickets for it? Intentional snagging is illegal after all.
Edit: While I don't approve of harassing migrating sockeye that you are not allowed to keep, I disagree that BB is intentionally snagging. To intentionally snag a fish, I believe you need to be able to see it and be attempting to hook it anywhere other than the mouth. While I'm not a lawyer, I think it would be difficult to convict someone of snagging a fish that they couldn't see. A fish that bites a hook probably has no idea it is about to bite a hook either..... ;)
If the water was clear do you think the flossers would be chucking their rigs just anywhere or would they be getting their long leaders in position to "line" one ?? ::)
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If the water was clear do you think the flossers would be chucking their rigs just anywhere or would they be getting their long leaders in position to "line" one ?? ::)
I agree, but that in my opinion would be intentional snagging.
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Actually that's your interpretation of the regulation which says: "snagging (foul hooking)… hooking a fish in any other part of its body other than
the mouth."
It does not say the fish must be hooked "inside" the mouth. While lure fishing in a lake or river the fish will often get hooked outside the mouth as it strikes the lure and the hook becomes lodged outside the mouth... While trolling bait in the ocean, it is common to use a trailing hook which is often lodged outside the mouth.
My interpretation and I believe the CO's interpretation is, as long as the hook is anywhere around the mouth, it is legal...
So a hook say ...in the eye ...is close enough to the mouth???
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I agree, but that in my opinion would be intentional snagging.
Oh okay, so "hoping" to snag one, opposed to, "intentionally" snag one, is different how??
You've got my head spinning now AF. ;D ::)
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Oh okay, so "hoping" to snag one, opposed to, "intentionally" snag one, is different how??
You've got my head spinning now AF. ;D ::)
Hey I agree if the definition was clear, we wouldn't be interpreting things differently.....
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Actually that's your interpretation of the regulation which says: "snagging (foul hooking)… hooking a fish in any other part of its body other than
the mouth."
...
My interpretation and I believe the CO's interpretation is, as long as the hook is anywhere around the mouth, it is legal...
I'd have to talk to a CO about this. Last time I checked, when a baby has food on its face it's missed its mouth ;) Your mouth, or pie hole, is that cavity in your head that you put food and drink into. It contains your tongue, teeth, and salivary glands, which help you digest that food and drink. While salmon don't have lips, I don't think it takes a biologist to point out where the mouth ends and the "face" begins; the average 7 year old could probably do that. The regs say fish must be hooked in the mouth, not around the mouth in order to be considered "fair."
But, yes, this is obviously my interpretation. Would be interested to learn what a CO has to say on the matter.
While lure fishing in a lake or river the fish will often get hooked outside the mouth as it strikes the lure and the hook becomes lodged outside the mouth...
I have caught 50+ fish trolling and/or casting lures. Never once was the fish hooked outside the mouth. An additional 50+ rainbows on flies have also been hooked inside the mouth. While not large numbers, experience tells me that such hook-ups are a rare occurance. Would I keep a fish that was hooked, for example, by the nostril? I'd probably toss it back, figuring I had accidently towed my lure into it.
While trolling bait in the ocean, it is common to use a trailing hook which is often lodged outside the mouth.
There was an article/editorial this week, in The Province, about raising BCs posted speed limits. The author wrote that, "[if everyone is doing it, even the cops, and it's relatively safe then why not?]" Just because everyone is doing it/it isn't being enforced doesn't mean you're not breaking the law. Again, I do realize this is just my interpretation/opinion; not saying I'm right, but I'm yet to be convinced otherwise.
Cheers
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Zabber this is what you reported on your second to last attempt to catch fish by not BB.
"Actually, I went up last Sunday and think I may have had a bite. The guy I was fishing with swears he had one on for a few seconds, on his second cast, but drag was loose and it shook the hook. Both could have been snags but he's seasoned so I believe him. There were sockeye moving in to spawn so may have been a cuttie vs. a spring??...
You said you were going I think on the 20th. How did you do?
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Zabber. I just finished looking through the freshwater guide and I believe they have changed the wording to "mouth" instead of" in or around the mouth" In the mouth is much better language and is the way it should read. I was always surprised in previous editions of the guide when they said " in or around the mouth". In previous guides does anybody else remember reading "in and around the mouth"? Did you notice a change (to the guide)?
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Same old ,same old.
The donkeys that make the rules dont have the guts to ban flossing and the fisherman fight amongst themselves.
Fishing out on the river used to be a great time until this snagging BS showed up.
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The first principle of selective fishing is to avoid catching non-targeted
stocks. This means that anglers should use methods that do not catch sockeye.
The following fishing methods enable anglers to catch chinook and chum salmon
and avoid sockeye salmon interceptions:
Bar Fishing
Trolling Spoons at Creek mouths
Float Fishing
Pulling Plugs
Fly Fishing
I see that the recommendations mentioned above are not only part of a DFO "Notice" but they are now also part of the Salmon Suppliment to the provincial Regulations.
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Same old ,same old.
The donkeys that make the rules dont have the guts to ban flossing and the fisherman fight amongst themselves.
Fishing out on the river used to be a great time until this snagging BS showed up.
There is still hope it will change especially if people continue after being asked by FOC not too. I believe fly overs are taking place now, counting rods. Those that continue are just shooting us all in the foot but like you said it used to be great out there in the "old days" and we had the best of it.
Worse thing I every did being part of getting the all salmon species open many years ago. Sorry to you for spoiling it for you. ::) >:( :( :'(
Rodney, Mike, and Nick and I hashed over this topic last night for a while while on a fishing trip. ;)
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It's one thing to bb when sox are open... But once its been reqested not to and sox are closed... just stay home and save it.
I threw my sturgeon rod out there with a bar rig on it out at PEG leg today. I was amazed at how many people were bouncing. I wasnt sure if it was ignorance or if they were just ignoring the DFO.
No luck on the bar rig tho. Casting wasn't as bad as I thought, but I was using a 18oz weight and even that was select to settle down. If anything I't looking forward to the Coho's to start up the river...Picked myself up a Centerpin setup.
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dfo has left a grey area on this subject. of course you are going to get people out there continuing to bb. their asking you not to instead of telling you not to. anytime you have a situation where people can choose, some will make the wrong choice.
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You said you were going I think on the 20th. How did you do?
Went today instead, as I wanted to get in a leg workout on Monday. Caught a couple of fish. Better than Scale at this time of year.
dfo has left a grey area on this subject. of course you are going to get people out there continuing to bb. their asking you not to instead of telling you not to. anytime you have a situation where people can choose, some will make the wrong choice.
They're advising, not asking ;) In others words, "keep it up and there won't be anymore chinook openings when sox are closed."
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Disappointed to still see the long lines of long liners at the popular spots around Hope on my return from Gold Country yesterday, I guess there is no hope for recreational fisheries that so many will not comply with the FOC request to fish selectively at this time. I thought a lot more would heed this voluntarily but I guess greed supersedes common sense.
I will hazard to guess we will see a Fraser River salmon closure, if not this year in the coming seasons, what a shame.
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Rumor has it that Peg Leg is side by side with "liners" now too. ::)
It truly is a shame that people just don't care. :-[
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Rumor has it that Peg Leg is side by side with "liners" now too. ::)
It truly is a shame that people just don't care. :-[
Must be out in boats as the side channell is way too deep to wade.
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Must be out in boats as the side channell is way too deep to wade.
I was there on Weds and there were a bunch of people flossing.... water is too fast for bar fishing. It took my 18oz weight downstream no problem.
It's only ankle deep
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I was there on Weds and there were a bunch of people flossing.... water is too fast for bar fishing. It took my 18oz weight downstream no problem.
It's only ankle deep
Not the main channel where people have driven across before out to the main bar.
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People are not going to care what DFO suggests! Its not a surprise to me. Alot of these characters have no idea that Bb is unethical and controversial.Really the only place one hears of the controversy is on internet sites like these.The tackle stores sell tons and tons of Bb gear,so there not going to poo,poo Bb.Last time i was home in the Wack,I saw homemade street signs on telephone poles around town advertising Bb gear for sale. Give me a freaking break. >:(
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Ya the tackle stores need to stop seeing $$ and grow a pair and push people to try other methods. If it was up to me just close that muddy river for salmon fishing. There are plenty of other ways to get fish.
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It seems the snaggers are looking for proof that other methods of fishing actually work. With pics and the like. Well that's not going to happen. I will say that for the skilled angler willing to partake of the art of angling " there are fish for the taking. I have been bar fishing from mid august to now and will tell you my group has landed 8 springs in that time and had twice that many come and give the rod a dance without a good hookup. That is the nature of barfishing.
As for snaggers, whatever methods you are using, you KNOW exactly what you are doing and are hiding behind the legal definitions like a little sissy hiding behind ones mothers skirts. I went through my own fishing quest using the long leader method and there is no doubt what is happening. Many use this regulatory loophole to cover up a distinct lack in skill, patience or a sporting fair play code of conduct and see only the need to feed. Get over the fact that in some environments fish will not bite. Also be aware that given the right circumstances any fish can be enticed to take an offering if used correctly. Most snaggers do not feel the fish should have the right to make the first move.
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It seems the snaggers are looking for proof that other methods of fishing actually work. With pics and the like. Well that's not going to happen. I will say that for the skilled angler willing to partake of the art of angling " there are fish for the taking. I have been bar fishing from mid august to now and will tell you my group has landed 8 springs in that time and had twice that many come and give the rod a dance without a good hookup. That is the nature of barfishing.
As for snaggers, whatever methods you are using, you KNOW exactly what you are doing and are hiding behind the legal definitions like a little sissy hiding behind ones mothers skirts. I went through my own fishing quest using the long leader method and there is no doubt what is happening. Many use this regulatory loophole to cover up a distinct lack in skill, patience or a sporting fair play code of conduct and see only the need to feed. Get over the fact that in some environments fish will not bite. Also be aware that given the right circumstances any fish can be enticed to take an offering if used correctly. Most snaggers do not feel the fish should have the right to make the first move.
Im not sure,what skill has to do with hucking a 18oz weight out with a large spin n glow.Sitting on a lawn chair and waiting for a bite.Bb on the other hand does take a bit of skill,getting the right drift through the type of water one is fishing. Im not condoning Bb,but i do not buy some of your arguments.
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So KP it was ok for you to do it but now every one who does it is condemned and a snagger
Again I do not support this fishery but can't stand the double standard for those that "used" to do it but now know better.
Your worse than a bunch of ex smokers
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Again I do not support this fishery but can't stand the double standard for those that "used" to do it but now know better.
Sounds like a certain "Leafs fan" that we all know. ;D ;D ;D {jk}
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People are going to google about flossing their teeth and end up at this thread and be very confused :D
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Im not sure,what skill has to do with hucking a 18oz weight out with a large spin n glow.Sitting on a lawn chair and waiting for a bite.Bb on the other hand does take a bit of skill,getting the right drift through the type of water one is fishing. Im not condoning Bb,but i do not buy some of your arguments.
Touché Dennis this almost made me spit my food out with laughter...
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I'm sitting here wondering how I respond to DT and EZ. I sure wish it was as easy as D. seems to think it is. I've seen many whom do exactly what D describes and for the most part they do sit in there chair and the only difference is, I catch fish. I think I would like to have you sitting beside me on the bar. Might be we would get along just fine. You would realize in a short while just how knowing what the frack you are doing can produce results which can be gratifying. Then again you could end up being like most of the fisherpeople who are beside me. They ALL end up coming by to investigate. I learned to pay attention long ago and I also paid attention to what some good bar fisherpeople were doing. So I will leave it at that.
Seems however that Mr Perfect (EZ) has never done a thing in his life which he now regrets. I must commend you on that. I however was lured to the dark side as an unknowing padowen. I quickly learned how strong the dark side was and broke free into the light.
If the truth be told in regard to harvesting sockeye as we know it. I hope people are starting to realize that fishery is abundance based. In other words you get to harvest your own sockeye rather than buy them from others if there is a surplus. This year, no surplus, no fishery. It is not a yearly recreational fishery. It is a harvest fishery. It should not be governed by sportfishing regulations. Unfortunately DFO just doesn't get it and probably never will. So the result is we deal as we are now. Seems flawed to me.
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(http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/539890_10151075843311094_1430090029_n.jpg)
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/377366_10151048671181094_1229696822_n.jpg)
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Proof once again that red wool is the ticket ;)
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(http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/539890_10151075843311094_1430090029_n.jpg)
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/377366_10151048671181094_1229696822_n.jpg)
Horrible. Is that the same sturgeon Rodney? I hope that sturge spooled all his line out or took the rod right out of his hands and into the river. Poor choice of a fishing technique.
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Horrible. Is that the same sturgeon Rodney? I hope that sturge spooled all his line out or took the rod right out of his hands and into the river. Poor choice of a fishing technique.
They're two different fish, caught on different days.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeQS3f2BeK8
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A nice relaxing day on the river :)
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A nice relaxing day on the river :)
Sorry, but it's hard to tell if your just joking or truly being an idiot, please fill us in.
anyways,
Horrible sight to see, but I guess one could show the DFO what the snaggers can do with a poor method of what they call fishing. ::)
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They're two different fish, caught on different days.
Very unfortunate. DFO advices to not snag to protect late run Sockeye yet sturgeon are far more endangered year round. It kust truly shows you that flossing is nothing but illegally snagging fish but the wool is the loop hole... >:(
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Horrible sight to see
Agreed.
I guess one could show the DFO what the snaggers can do with a poor method of what they call fishing. ::)
While they're at it, perhaps showing them the vids of sturgeon newbs cutting their line on big or foul hooked sturgeon, and sharing the stories of fish pulled up with sturgeon rods + reels still attached would help. Not sure that pounds of weight + yards of line hanging from their mouth makes for happy, healthy fish.
It just truly shows you that flossing is nothing but illegally snagging fish but the wool is the loop hole... >:(
All it shows is that two sturgeon have been snagged at some point in time. Most experienced bottom bouncers will likely attest that hooking fish in such a manner, whilst bottom bouncing, is a rare occurance; much more common is in the side of the head or inside the mouth -- especially if one doesn't "set" the hook if there is no hit. I'm not saying that there aren't more sturgeon swimming around out there with 3/0 hooks in their backs, just that there probably aren't that many. Is one too many? Depends on who you ask. Would be interesting to hear from a seasoned sturgeon angler as to what % of the fish they bring to hand are wounded in such a manner; haven't read many such reports (and there is a long sturg thread on another board).
FYI B420:
"Your basic fishing licence entitles you to angle ... fish (with or without a rod) with one fishing line to which only one hook, one artificial lure OR one artificial fly is attached." (2011-2013 Synopsis, p. 9). In other words, wool's not a loophole; one can fish with a bare hook if he/she so chooses.
Tight lines m8
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All it shows...
Oh yeah, that's all.... lol... I'm glad I didn't make a big deal out of nothing.
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Rod(ney),
I hope you don't think that's what I was saying. I have no issue w/ the pics you posted; as I said, I agree that they're a horrific sight. In fact, I thank you for posting them up; they've caused me to further reconsider my angling practices.
Big deal out of nothing? Certainly not; it's a big (your words, not mine) deal out of something. But should it be (a big deal, that is)? The question isn't rhetorical; I really don't know. Again, what percentage of landed sturgeon have a 12 foot leader hanging from their backs, and what is the likelihood that such a fish develops an infection and dies as a result of such a wound? That is what will determine how serious of an issue this is. There is no doubt that "bottom bouncing"/dredging/flossing the Fraser is an unselective fishing method but -- again -- I think that anecdotal evidence will probably suggest that sturgeon are infrequently foul hooked by this practice.
Perhaps a more efficient use of resources would be to inform sturgeon anglers about proper gear/technique: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJUIFow5gQ0&feature=player_embedded ?? Again, a serious question; I'm interested in knowing who/what does more damage to this endangered fish stock. Also, are sturgeon hardier than most fish or something? I've heard some can survive out of water for 24hours and that 2 hour photo ops aren't unheard of (though not recommended), so I'm guessing the constant, lactic-acid producing struggles and release back into tepid water isn't really as much of a concern as it is with other fish...
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Once a few years ago a sturgeon was caught and looked like a Christmas tree. :o
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(http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/539890_10151075843311094_1430090029_n.jpg)
(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/377366_10151048671181094_1229696822_n.jpg)
Im surprised liketofish and Athezone arent screaming Photoshopped!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Hey Bassonator you don't know me so don't ever try to infer how I would feel about Any subject. I think those pictures are horrible and I am sure anyone else on this site would feel the same.
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Maybe river fishing should be banned all together... an incident like this could have just as well happened casting spinners deep into the river also
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Actually, in clear rivers that have sturgeon, like the Columbia, hooking a sturgeon on a spinner, wedding band, jig etc is very very common while fishing for walleye. Ive hooked a few in the last 3 or 4 years. It seems like every year you hook a few. But they bite instead of getting snagged. Kinda gets your heart pumping when a 3 foot sturgeon is chasing your spinner.