Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: Sterling C on September 04, 2010, 09:12:57 PM
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I took a drive down to Peg Leg today to check out the mayhem. It didn't take long until I stumbled upon this:
(http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz222/fishingadventures/IMG_4276.jpg?t=1283660486)
Now hopefully everyone on this site realizes what is wrong with this picture. Of course there are some people who will not, hence the reason this picture was taken. The fish in the middle is a WILD coho, which of course are closed for retention. Moreover, this fish (although impossible to confirm without looking at its DNA) is likely an ENDANGERED interior Fraser coho.
Shortly after I took this picture, I witnessed another fish being dragged up onto the beach and sadly that fish too was another WILD coho. The angler who caught it did not take the time to identify the fish before beaching it. Before the rock shampoo could be applied I intervened and informed the angler that it was in fact a coho he had caught. The angler refuted saying it was a spring and it had spots then went to show me how it had black gums. Of course it didn't. So as quickly as it was dragged out, I made sure the now shake and baked coho made its way back into the river. Sadly I doubt it will survive.
Its very upsetting to see someone, who supposedly knows how to identify fish, beach fish before properly identifying it. Even worse is the fact that I had several other people come to the anglers defense stating it was a spring.
The sad fact is that as long as DFO is willing to leave this 'fishery' open into the fall, there will be bi-catch. If you choose to participate, please take the time to identify your fish before you beach it and to make sure you are properly able to distinguish between sockeye, springs, coho and steelhead.
Here is a quick guide for anyone wondering:
(I don't really have any clear pictures of sockeye so if someone would like to post one that would be great)
Usually the first thing people look for are spots on the back, which could be any one of three species of fish at this time of year (4 during pink years).
The most common 'spotted' catch at this time of year are springs, which of course are open for retention. The can be identified by their black gums, spotting along the back, and spots on both the upper and lower lobes of their tails.
Here is a photo showing the black gums:
(http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz222/fishingadventures/IMGP1612.jpg?t=1283660260)
Here is a full length photo of a spring. Although this isn't the best example, you can see the spots on the upper and lower lobes of the tail.
(http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz222/fishingadventures/IMGP1610a.jpg?t=1283660392)
Another possible catch at this time of year are steelhead. These can be identified by their heavily spotted square tails (top and bottom lobe), spotted backs and white gums. Also, as they mature their cheeks will turn rosy. Here is a full length photo, a tail shot and a close up of a head showing the white gums.
(http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz222/fishingadventures/P7031928.jpg?t=1283660962)
(http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz222/fishingadventures/P7031927.jpg?t=1283660962)
(http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz222/fishingadventures/Summer2010044.jpg?t=1283661036)
Finally we get to coho. The easiest way to identify a coho is by its white gums and by its tail which will only have a few spots on the upper lobe.
Here is a full length photo of a coho. You can quite clearly see the few spots on the upper half of the tail as well as the white gums.
(http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz222/fishingadventures/IMGP1902.jpg?t=1283661385)
Hopefully this was helpful to a few anglers and hopefully this will help to prevent similar photos to the one that I opened this post with. Remember, to always identify your catch before taking it out of the water and that when you are not sure of the identity of a fish its best to release it. It is your responsibility to know your fish species do not rely on the people around you because the sad fact is, that many of your fellow anglers out on the bar don't have a clue.
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Picture no workie for me....
The sad thing is these coho are also being caught in nets.
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Photo link fixed.
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This is a really helpful for those who may have a hard time identifying the different salmon species. Only problem is, it show what they look like in their spawning stages. NOTE: You will need a PDF file viewer application in order to open this!
http://wdfw.wa.gov/fishing/pac_salmon_id.pdf
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Good on yeah. Theres just to many people and too much stress on the person to get the fish on the beach ASAP and out of the way. No time to think and identify, until its half way up the beach. :-\
What exactly were you doing at Peg Leg? ::)
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What exactly were you doing at Peg Leg? ::)
I think that is irrelevant to the point of this topic. ::)
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Thanks for posting SterlingC. A sad sight to see :(
Very informative post especially with the pictures. Hopefully more people will take the time to identify their catch.
Hopefully DFO will close sockeye retention very soon to protect the wild interior fraser coho and steelhead that will be passing through. There are simply way too many people uneducated in species ID out on the river right now and sights like this will be more and more common the longer the sockeye opening continues. Like bbronswyk2000 posted, all the nets on the river are even less selective.
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What exactly were you doing at Peg Leg? ::)
Went for as stroll to check things out. I haven't participated in this fishery for several years now.
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Today I was out and the fishing was good, there were lots of people getting there fish and then I noticed the guy just down from us cleaning his fish. I could clearly see the fish from where I was and right away I was thinking Coho, but I walked down to make sure, cause It could have been a little jack spring from where I was standing. Surely enough it was a dime bright Coho. The guy was tying the fish off to the back of his boat in the water (maybe to hide it?), I asked to see it and he lifts it up and in a sheepish voice he says 'What is it? I thought it was a spring", I told him buddy you just killed and illegal Coho. I could not doing anything, and did not make a scene about it, and walked away. I told him he should get rid of it, or cook it up for everyone on the beach, and walked away.
I dont know what he did with the fish after I left, and he continued fishing for his sockeye. Later in the day a guy fishing up river, mentions of a steelhead that was beached a couple days ago on the same bar, which was really disappointing to hear. But on top of all this there were 6 older guys above us who had caught all there limits yet continued fishing, all catch and release for the next hour and a half, maybe a dozen fish released total. That wasnt even the worse part, One of the guy doing all this catch and release has the 'Fraser valley Salmon Society' logo on the side of his boat. :-\ Now Im all for catch and Release, but this fishery is the wrong place for it. I know this year is a booming year for the sockeye but come on, respect the fish. Get your 2 and get the hell out.
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Sad to hear stuff like this is going on. Can it be any simpler, get your two fish and leave. However, it seems these rules and regs. don't apply to some of the fishermen, such as what you saw today, unfortunately.
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River has been open for almost a month, if you haven't got your sockeye yet, play the 4 year waiting game.
Flossing is as bad as netting when it comes to targeting specific species, and a lot of the fishermen couldn't tell species apart if their life depended on it.
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I went back out to check things out for about an hour today. It didn't take long until I stumbled across this:
(http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz222/fishingadventures/WildCohoa.jpg?t=1283750144)
After taking this photo I asked the angler if he knew what kind of fish he had killed. He told me that the other fishermen around him had told him that it was a sockeye. I kindly informed him that it was a coho and that he should not have kept that fish. I also informed him of the consequences should he be checked by a conservation officer. I then explained to him how to tell the difference between the various species of salmon and that he should always check to see what type of fish is on his line before beaching it. He seemed very receptive to my words as it was very clear he was quite new to fishing. Sadly I doubt ignorance would qualify as an excuse in court.
I also ran into the creel surveyor. I informed her of the coho from the past two days. She said that her bosses would be very interested to hear and that stuff like this is what will get the river shut down. Hopefully forever.
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Sterling_C,
Thank you for posting these pictures, they need to be seen by all. It's people like you that hold people accountable for their actions when there is nobody "representing the law" present.
The unfortunate truth is tough, this will continue to happen. DFO appears hell-bent on making sure the financial interests regarding any fishery is top priority. These meager by catches are but a formality.
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Thanks for posting SterlingC. A sad sight to see :(
Very informative post especially with the pictures. Hopefully more people will take the time to identify their catch.
Hopefully DFO will close sockeye retention very soon to protect the wild interior fraser coho and steelhead that will be passing through. There are simply way too many people uneducated in species ID out on the river right now and sights like this will be more and more common the longer the sockeye opening continues. Like bbronswyk2000 posted, all the nets on the river are even less selective.
It doesn't matter if sockeye is closed or not it's not like those anglers that can't identify their catch will suddenly become all knowing. They'll just mis-identify their catch somewhere else.
What's important is on the web when purchasing salmon stamp a quick identification test should be performed. It might not be enough but at least that'll make sure the angler has at least read the section on "Salmon Identification".
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Alot of the guys out sockeye fishing are just ignorant. They wouldn't know a sockeye from a bullhead. ::)
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I think people should have to take a course to have the privilege to fish our resource just as we do to hunt. Its a no brainer but others do not see it this way. This thread is another perfect example. Huge sockeye run, things should be fine but they are not.
Really though fish id isn't something you can learn from reading a book. All the more reason for having to take a complete fishing course including ethics, Id, Methods, littering and more.
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I think people should have to take a course to have the privilege to fish our resource just as we do to hunt. Its a no brainer but others do not see it this way. This thread is another perfect example. Huge sockeye run, things should be fine but they are not.
Really though fish id isn't something you can learn from reading a book. All the more reason for having to take a complete fishing course including ethics, Id, Methods, littering and more.
I completely agree with you but sadly I don't think it will ever happen.
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I completely agree with you but sadly I don't think it will ever happen.
It would just turn into another tax/money grab
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It would just turn into another tax/money grab
Call it what you will but regardless of its title it would be well worth it providing the content of the course is sufficient. There would be a bit less fishing, more fines towards fish enhancement, more guiding. Perhaps that could be part of the penalizing system. Get caught poaching and have to take a 2 week course to get your license back.(I am half kidding)(maybe it would work but I am against promoting a positive with a negative)
Anyway, it should not be so easy to get a fishing license.
I agree it is likely that I will never see it happen for many reasonable reason.
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I got one of those fish id tags that goes on your key chain from Rod at a cleanup some time ago. They are great and should be handed out with every licence sold.
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OH BOY...wait till next year if there is an opening for Socks and Pinks at the same time, it's gonna be so disgusting that I don't even wanna read posts about it because you know it's not gonna be good news. Guys will be telling each other on the bars that you are allowed 4 fish in total with a different combination of species according to the allowed limits but of course as that message gets passed around it just turns to "You're allowed 4 fish total". With inexperienced fisherman not knowing how to identify the different species there will tons of illegal catches for sure.
You may be the exception, but my friends and I all started out inexperienced and learnt as we went. ???
In the process we made mistakes and had the "experienced" fishermen either help us out or glare at us and I'm sure some of them would have even posted about us on the internet if it was available..... :D
You may think you're sounding quite righteous by repeating the same message however that's not the way I'm seeing you. Lighten up a little and either stay away from all of this or step in and use your experience to teach these newbies the right way to do things.... :)
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You may be the exception, but my friends and I all started out inexperienced and learnt as we went. ???
In the process we made mistakes and had the "experienced" fishermen either help us out or glare at us and I'm sure some of them would have even posted about us on the internet if it was available..... :D
You may think you're sounding quite righteous by repeating the same message however that's not the way I'm seeing you. Lighten up a little and either stay away from all of this or step in and use your experience to teach these newbies the right way to do things.... :)
Its not just the inexperienced, Its the god damn guys who know better.
Today, 3 guys pulled up to a bar in a boat with the logo 'Fraser Valley Salmon Society' printed on the side. These guys had all the gear, nice gear too, and had no problems throughout the day casting there baitcasters. So Im assuming they know there stuff, I keep an eye around and watch one of the guys pull a fish 15 feet up the beach. I watch the guy thinking its a sockeye and the fish is going crazy flipping all over the rocks like most sockeye landed, the guy is trying to get the fish under control and trying to pop the hook, he seems to have no intention of killing it. He has his whole body propted over the fish, and yells to his buddy "I need your Pilers". His buddy takes his time reels in and heads over to the fish with the pilers.
They pop the hook out and now they are starting to question if it is a Coho? They arnt sure, and the 3rd guy from the boat reels in and walks over to take a look. Between the 3 of them and the lengthy time they stood there and stared down at the fish, they were able to figure out it was a Coho....I witnessed the whole thing and I couldnt believe the guy even bothered trying to revieve the fish.
So Its not just the new guys that are part of the problem, its the guys that know better and couldnt careless, just ignorant.
Could someone tell me who exactly are the 'Fraser Valley Salmon Society'? How does a person who cant differentiate between salmon become a part of this organisation?
Id love to open my mouth and say something to people like this, but whats the point, If the experienced guys dont give a cupcakes, I cant exspect anyone less too.
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If you get a coho AND you snag it does that count as a double negative?
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A healthy fine and confiscation of their equipment is probably the best thing. If you don't know what the regs are, you usually know there's a price to pay for breaking the law. Need more inforcement out there big time.
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I'm going to step in here and say I am one of those new guys who has been fishing on and off for years. When I say that you would think I should know what I'm talking about - but I've only gone out a handfull of times in the past 9 years.
While I am able to distinguish the different various species of salmon - I'm not able to do so until its out of the water most times (with the exception of looking at their gums before being beached but that isn't always the best) and am greatfull for those who are in the know fishing along side me and are willing to help out.
I for one would be more than happy to see a test being made mandatory before the purchase of a salmon tag.
There are those who say I don't belong out on the river fishing because of my inexperience - and to them I say stuff it. There was a time when you were green just like me. And then there are those who are always willing to help out and pass on their knowledge. A big kudos to these real sport fishermen.
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Heard from a reliable source today 2 yes 2 Thompson Steelhead were caught at Peg Leg, 1 was killed the other dragged on shore then released. This snag fishery has to come to an end.
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Heard from a reliable source today 2 yes 2 Thompson Steelhead were caught at Peg Leg, 1 was killed the other dragged on shore then released. This snag fishery has to come to an end.
Does your reliable source have any info on how many Thompson steelhead were caught in the mess of nets stretched out all over the Fraser in the last number of weeks? Any idea how many of those survived? Should the native and commercial fisheries come to an end?
Just trying to add some perspective to your comments.... ::)
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I agree with that I'm sure quite a few have been taken by other users too but just pointing out what actually happened today in a thread that goes with it. If those fish were caught in Chilliwack the commercials had nothing to do with catching them.
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I agree with that I'm sure quite a few have been taken by other users too but just pointing out what actually happened today in a thread that goes with it. If those fish were caught in Chilliwack the commercials had nothing to do with catching them.
???
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Does your reliable source have any info on how many Thompson steelhead were caught in the mess of nets stretched out all over the Fraser in the last number of weeks? Any idea how many of those survived? Should the native and commercial fisheries come to an end?
Just trying to add some perspective to your comments.... ::)
Very good point, the answer of course is to allow fishing, until these species start to show up, then shut it all down, no recreational, no commmercial, no F/N.
On the commercial side, nets do not know the difference between species, but on the recreational side, neither do a good part of sockeye fisherman. If it doesnt come close to pulling you in, its a Sockeye, if it does, its a spring. ;D
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Sterling good job on the thread and pictures, very sad to hear about the coho and the steelhead. The sockeye snaggery is something that should not be allowed to happen, but then all the government sees is money and would never give up on such a cash grab. Just look at cigarettes and how they continue crap like that which kills hundreds of people daily.
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Sterling good job on the thread and pictures, very sad to hear about the coho and the steelhead. The sockeye snaggery is something that should not be allowed to happen, but then all the government sees is money and would never give up on such a cash grab. Just look at cigarettes and how they continue crap like that which kills hundreds of people daily.
Don't forget the native and commercial fisheries as well......
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Sterling good job on the thread and pictures, very sad to hear about the coho and the steelhead. The sockeye snaggery is something that should not be allowed to happen, but then all the government sees is money and would never give up on such a cash grab. Just look at cigarettes and how they continue crap like that which kills hundreds of people daily.
Yup and alcohol, fast food etc etc also kill people every day. You cant compare those things to the sockeye fishery......
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I`m going to chime in once more on this thread,
I usually fish up north on the Skeena system, but do to schooling and other constraints, I now settle for fishing the lower mainland. Anyway, I usually looked forward to years of poor sockeye returns, it meant the gauntlet at the mouth was removed and all the other species didnt face that hurdle. There might be a few fishermen out there like me who actually like seeing less numbers of sockeye, just to keep the net maze on the rollers where they should be.
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Can't be true, just saw a commercial fisherman on yesterdays news saying that closing the commercial fishing was ludicrous because the coho were nowhere near the Fraser yet, so I guess all those gill nets are not catching any coho, God only knows the commercials wouldn't lie to us about their catch. ;)
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Scratch n sniff? White spring scent available? lol
I can only imagine what the vedder will be like this fall, all those out there who bought a license just for sockeye will now fish the fall or for steelhead as the "heck why not I already have the darn license" mentality will happen.
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Scratch n sniff? White spring scent available? lol
I can only imagine what the vedder will be like this fall, all those out there who bought a license just for sockeye will now fish the fall or for steelhead as the "heck why not I already have the darn license" mentality will happen.
Exactly, The guys who are buying there license for the first time, and just nailing sockeye after sockeye and thinking to themselves why wasnt I doing this years ago, its so easy. Now that sockeye will be over soon, they will still be thinking salmon fishing is easy and hit the next best flow( The Vedder) . Along with that mentality they will bring the only type of fishing they know, bottom bouncing 15 footer leaders, and the problem goes on. Im looking forward to it as much as you.
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Exactly, The guys who are buying there license for the first time, and just nailing sockeye after sockeye and thinking to themselves why wasnt I doing this years ago, its so easy. Now that sockeye will be over soon, they will still be thinking salmon fishing is easy and hit the next best flow( The Vedder) . Along with that mentality they will bring the only type of fishing they know, bottom bouncing 15 footer leaders, and the problem goes on. Im looking forward to it as much as you.
I was already thinking this same thing as well a month ago.
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This photo was sent to me by a forum member. The story goes that he was fishing Peg Leg this afternoon and stumbled across someone beaching this fish. The person landing the fish wasn't sure of its identity so he was asking people passing by. Luckily this forum member knew his fish id's and made sure it found its way back into the river. Unfortunately, as you can tell from the photo this fish got pretty beat up in the process.
Kudos to the angler for taking the time to ask about the identification. It refreshing to know that some people are getting the message that the auto bonk method should not be employed.
(http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz222/fishingadventures/photo.jpg?t=1283913640)
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looks like its bleeding badly,SAD,Very sad indeed, :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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I think people should have to take a course to have the privilege to fish our resource just as we do to hunt. Its a no brainer but others do not see it this way. This thread is another perfect example. Huge sockeye run, things should be fine but they are not.
Really though fish id isn't something you can learn from reading a book. All the more reason for having to take a complete fishing course including ethics, Id, Methods, littering and more.
While the entire local fishing population isn't exactly a member of FWR, a lot of people stumble upon this site and get a good education from it. I don't see the test suggestion happening, so I have a suggestion that might help some people.
How about Rod puts up a salmon identification quiz right on here? 50 question test to quiz yourself with pictures etc. Could be a multiple choice test. I'd use it to learn, some of you knowledgeable guys could use it to prove your knowledge, others to test what they think they have learned. Rod could even incentivize it by offering something for a 100% score such as access to fishing reports or the privilege of PM'ing. (maybe in combination with the existing requirements, I.e. 50 posts plus the score on the test).
Rod?
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I wouldnt be surprised if 20-50 Coho are being bonked/killed a day by sports fishers.
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While the entire local fishing population isn't exactly a member of FWR, a lot of people stumble upon this site and get a good education from it. I don't see the test suggestion happening, so I have a suggestion that might help some people.
How about Rod puts up a salmon identification quiz right on here? 50 question test to quiz yourself with pictures etc. Could be a multiple choice test. I'd use it to learn, some of you knowledgeable guys could use it to prove your knowledge, others to test what they think they have learned. Rod could even incentivize it by offering something for a 100% score such as access to fishing reports or the privilege of PM'ing. (maybe in combination with the existing requirements, I.e. 50 posts plus the score on the test).
Rod?
You're asking a lot of Rodney. Why don't you put the quiz together yourself? Find pictures online. Put a post together, make a new thread, post all the pictures, then people can post their answers or write them down. After a week you could post the answers.
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Maybe if every one got together a submitted photo's there would be a large variety to make the quiz even better and thorough. I would especial like the photo's of 3 sock s on a string with 1 coho. The question could be: one of these things is not like the other, one of the these things is kinda the same, but one of these things is not like the other, now it time to play our game, its time to play our game.
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You're asking a lot of Rodney. Why don't you put the quiz together yourself? Find pictures online. Put a post together, make a new thread, post all the pictures, then people can post their answers or write them down. After a week you could post the answers.
Really?! My impression of the site is that he invests a lot of time to educate people, so I still think it's a good suggestion. But maybe you're right, the guy (me) with limited knowledge should teach everyone..
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Hey there,
Rod is a big boy, I think he can speak for himself. On the flip side , why don't people who aren't sure of their salmon species just keep the regs with them, there's a full page with all the salmon plus other fish, with written descriptions under the pictures. Pretty simple don't you think ?
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Picture no workie for me....
The sad thing is these coho are also being caught in nets.
I can't speak for other commercial fishers but this is what I know from 2 of them.
I went out for the first 3 hour opening this year to see, and "help" with the catch.
Only sockeye, and 2 spring were caught. In all of the following openings, they've only caught one other spring. They keep these for their own food along with a good 50 or so sockeye.
The guy, I was riding with, has only ever caught one steelhead in his net, in over 50 years of fishing. That was a few years ago, and luckily for that fish, it was put into the revival box, and was released back into the river.
As for coho, the say they do catch them occaisionally but not very often. If they do, they go straight into the survival box.
Now you guys can go and say whatever you want, but this is a trustworthy man, who has fished the river his whole life. I have known him for many years. I have no reason to doubt him.
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As you only went out on the first commercial opening the likelihood of catching a coho would be quite slim
Revival Boxes are great for letting the fish to recover...but I'm not sure what good they serve on a gill net boat fishing in the Fraser River as when they are released the nets still in the river....from one net to another.
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What may help people ID there Salmon before there dragged up on the rocks or clubbed to death with a stick would be for a group of people who are dedicated enough to print off the Salmon ID chart on this thread and hand them out at the more popular boat launches and fishing area's. Instead of standing back and taking pictures of dead Coho, try to educate the people before they kill them! Quite a few of the guilty ones have no idea what a Sockeye looks like or a Bull Trout as previously mentioned. If your out there handing out pamphlets at least your trying to save the Coho, not sitting back watching them get slaughtered. M.Dean
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Hey there,
Rod is a big boy, I think he can speak for himself. On the flip side , why don't people who aren't sure of their salmon species just keep the regs with them, there's a full page with all the salmon plus other fish, with written descriptions under the pictures. Pretty simple don't you think ?
I now have that PDF that was posted in iBooks on the trusty iPhone. Have given it to other buddies that fish and they think it's great. We are all very interested in becoming good at quickly identifying.
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Really?! My impression of the site is that he invests a lot of time to educate people, so I still think it's a good suggestion. But maybe you're right, the guy (me) with limited knowledge should teach everyone..
Rodney does spend a lot of time trying to improve this site. And if you need a tutorial on fish identification check out this post (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=24922.msg234608#msg234608) in the Chillwack River thread. It gets posted every year. Remember, ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. If you can't identify your fish you should release it.
I'm just somewhat sick of the attitude that everyone else should teach me, or show me, or explain to me how to do something. It's no one's responsibility but your own to know how to identify fish. And you didn't privately ask or make your suggestion to Rodney, which would have been the polite way to get him to do something. Rather, you called him out publicly, basically telling him he should do it.
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why don't people who aren't sure of their salmon species just keep the regs with them, there's a full page with all the salmon plus other fish, with written descriptions under the pictures. Pretty simple don't you think ?
Great suggestion, for sure. Even simpler suggestion would be:
IF YOU AREN'T SURE WHAT KIND OF FISH IT IS, LET IT GO!!!
Tex
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I can't speak for other commercial fishers but this is what I know from 2 of them.
I went out for the first 3 hour opening this year to see, and "help" with the catch.
Only sockeye, and 2 spring were caught. In all of the following openings, they've only caught one other spring. They keep these for their own food along with a good 50 or so sockeye.
The guy, I was riding with, has only ever caught one steelhead in his net, in over 50 years of fishing. That was a few years ago, and luckily for that fish, it was put into the revival box, and was released back into the river.
As for coho, the say they do catch them occaisionally but not very often. If they do, they go straight into the survival box.
Now you guys can go and say whatever you want, but this is a trustworthy man, who has fished the river his whole life. I have known him for many years. I have no reason to doubt him.
Interesting post, but as was pointed out earlier the coho numbers come through later than the first opening *generally*. Also, you state the fellow is trustworthy, and that's great, but I wouldn't find it at all surprising if someone who makes their livelihood from such a pursuit would risk it by admitting to bycatch - especially when it comes to steelhead, or coho for that matter.
Tex
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No need to fight over me, there's enough Rod to go around. ;D
Anyway, there is a link from the homepage that deals with this particular subject. Here is the direct link:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/fishy_news/100908-3.html
Most of my effort on the site actually isn't focused on developing educational posts on the forum (not that I don't do it, just not as much as other projects) because majority of the readership (especially new readers) actually does not come into the forum. Instead they browse through the main section of the website where you can find articles, fishing reports, news updates etc. The forum traffic takes up about 40% of the server bandwidth but most is done by repeat users.
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Folks should also learn how to release fish. Sad to see intended C&R dragged onto the rocks, then kick back in cause they don't want to get wet. Yes we tell the newbies you get all wet releasing them in the water, consider that last kick of water in your face a friendly goodbye wet kiss. That's fishing, don't want to get wet, stay home. ;)
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What may help people ID there Salmon before there dragged up on the rocks or clubbed to death with a stick would be for a group of people who are dedicated enough to print off the Salmon ID chart on this thread and hand them out at the more popular boat launches and fishing area's. Instead of standing back and taking pictures of dead Coho, try to educate the people before they kill them! Quite a few of the guilty ones have no idea what a Sockeye looks like or a Bull Trout as previously mentioned. If your out there handing out pamphlets at least your trying to save the Coho, not sitting back watching them get slaughtered. M.Dean
Maybe you should re-read my posts.
The first dead coho I came across I never did track down its captor so no chance to do anything there.
Later that day I released a coho for someone and in the process showed him how to tell the difference.
Next day I came across someone with a dead wild coho. Explained to him that coho are closed and showed him how to identify it as a coho.
I'm not sure what else you really would have expected me to have done in a grand total of two hours spent at the bar. I haven't been back since then but obviously what I saw had enough of an impact on me to incite my initial post.
I personally have not participated in this 'fishery' for four years and am of the opinion that it should be shut down before all of our local salmon/steelhead fisheries are ruined. Perhaps some of the flossing apologists who defend this fishery should be the ones handing out pamphlets in an attempt to prove that this is somehow a legitimate fishery.
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Your contribution to a better fishing was good up to the last paragraph. There is nothing to prove regarding legality, DFO sets the rules, remember we live don't live in a guilty till proven innocent society. Or perhaps you're thinking of "legitimate" in a philosophical or economic sense. Either discussion always ends with beating a dead horse with IMHOs; only outcome is a OT distraction from your attempt to educate which you have done a good job thus far.
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I personally have not participated in this 'fishery' for four years and am of the opinion that it should be shut down before all of our local salmon/steelhead fisheries are ruined. Perhaps some of the flossing apologists who defend this fishery should be the ones handing out pamphlets in an attempt to prove that this is somehow a legitimate fishery.
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In my previous post I wasn't finger pointing at anyone person, I was quite serous about people handing out ID sheets, it would help save lots of Salmon before there killed. I personally find nothing wrong with the way Sockeye are being caught, you still have to have a bit of knowledge about fishing to catch one flossing. To some folks the only right way to fish is there way, they are the saints of the fishing world! Well, not every one can fly fish like you, some can't afford the gear you use or travel to the rivers and streams you do, so they fish close to home, the Frazer river! It's full of Sockeye, millions of them, people from all over the world right now are showing up on the sand bars, in Charter Boats, some are buying new boats and motors, rods and reels, hooks, line and sinkers too, just for the chance at a Sockeye! The Bears are scooping them up with there paws, Eagles are eating Sockeye, Seals also are gorging them selves on the flesh, every animal around will in one way or another benefit from this run, even the lowly human! I guess to some, if your not using a fly rod or a belly boat like them, your not worthy enough to be on the river, well Tim I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I just got back, with my legal limit and now there in my smoker and when there done I'm going to can them! In closing, I have to admit I do own a custom built RayMac Fly Rod, I tie my own flies and can fly fish with the best but on a sadder note I just bought a lowly Level wind reel and a Technium 11.6 rod for Salmon fishing, and worst yet, I do have a few 3 1/2 ounce Bouncing Bettie's in my vest pocket!
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Maybe you should re-read my posts.
The first dead coho I came across I never did track down its captor so no chance to do anything there.
Later that day I released a coho for someone and in the process showed him how to tell the difference.
Next day I came across someone with a dead wild coho. Explained to him that coho are closed and showed him how to identify it as a coho.
I'm not sure what else you really would have expected me to have done in a grand total of two hours spent at the bar. I haven't been back since then but obviously what I saw had enough of an impact on me to incite my initial post.
I personally have not participated in this 'fishery' for four years and am of the opinion that it should be shut down before all of our local salmon/steelhead fisheries are ruined. Perhaps some of the flossing apologists who defend this fishery should be the ones handing out pamphlets in an attempt to prove that this is somehow a legitimate fishery.
So the last time you participated was during the last big opening and you want all the current flossers to hand these out? C'mon now.
Its up to the individual to know the difference. Their are no excuses for not being able to identify a fish. If you cant or are unsure just let it go its as simple as that. I would not waste my time trying to educate these people as I have more important things to do. Like work, spend time with my kids etc etc.
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It's funny how when the snag fest on the Fraser started a couple decades ago it's slowly spilled it's way onto smaller flows. Back when the sockeye first opened there were so many fish that you would float fish with a 2' leader with a slight sweep to the drift and BAM every drift a fish. But now people who originally rallied to have sockeye opened wish that they never did and now hang their heads in shame as they're responsible for the plague that has been unleashed on the Fraser valley. Now a days all people care about is money just look at the reason the commercial guys wanted to be able to keep fishing. Apparently there will be too many sockeye and not enough gravel for them to spawn in in their natal waters. LMFAO YEAH RIGHT!!! This years return is barely over 30 million, how did they survive for centuries with returns over 100 million? People now a days will believe almost anything they see or read as they rely too much on spoon fed information, I swung by peg leg as I was in the area today, I got to hear the talk of the hot wool color combo of the day. How orange is great as you will get sockeye and springs, bow only green for sockeye, red for just springs. I also got to see some wild endangered coho get dragged up onto the sand and gravel bar. The "anglers" then stand over the fish trying to ID a now sand coated fish with no idea of what they're doing. After I tell them it's a coho they kick it back into the river, seems very sportsman like huh? They sure didn't like my following comments that is for sure.
Once again the fuel of greed has over powered the need of conservation and sustainability.
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Some uplifting lunchtime reading.
(http://i855.photobucket.com/albums/ab112/mulle_tman/59362_436651508646_565088646_5181072_3753064_n.jpg)
From: http://forum.flybc.ca/index.php?showtopic=26230
The Fraser River might be closed for sockeye salmon retention now, it remains opened for chinook and chum salmon retention. Don't haul in your "big chinook" until you are really sure it is one.
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The Fraser River might be closed for sockeye salmon retention now, it remains opened for chinook and chum salmon retention. Don't haul in your "big chinook" until you are really sure it is one.
Rodney, If I read the DFO notice correctly, the Fraser river above the Jesperson area markers to at least the Hope bridge is closed to salmon fishing. Not just sockeye.
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you're right. I generalized the information a bit. Only some sections of the Fraser River remain open for chinook and chum salmon retention while some sections are closed to salmon fishing completely.
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So the last time you participated was during the last big opening and you want all the current flossers to hand these out? C'mon now.
Its up to the individual to know the difference. Their are no excuses for not being able to identify a fish. If you cant or are unsure just let it go its as simple as that. I would not waste my time trying to educate these people as I have more important things to do. Like work, spend time with my kids etc etc.
As per usual you manage to get half the message. ::)
Not sure why you bring it up but yes the last time I was out there was 06. Now that you mention it, I used to spend nearly as much time releasing fish for the people 'going for a spring' as I would fishing for myself. I just couldn't stand and watch in good conscience. Once again, I'm not sure why my past participation has to do with me wanting the sockeye apologists to take efforts to improve the behavior of this fisheries participants.
I guess you think you are the only person with important things to do. Well so does everyone. I just happen to care about the state of our local fisheries and am concerned about their moral decay. And because I know you are going to ask, yes I spend large amounts of my time and money giving back to the sport I love. I just don't go on the internet tooting my own horn about how I spend four hours a year picking up garbage.
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As per usual you manage to get half the message. ::)
Not sure why you bring it up but yes the last time I was out there was 06. Now that you mention it, I used to spend nearly as much time releasing fish for the people 'going for a spring' as I would fishing for myself. I just couldn't stand and watch in good conscience. Once again, I'm not sure why my past participation has to do with me wanting the sockeye apologists to take efforts to improve the behavior of this fisheries participants.
I guess you think you are the only person with important things to do. Well so does everyone. I just happen to care about the state of our local fisheries and am concerned about their moral decay. And because I know you are going to ask, yes I spend large amounts of my time and money giving back to the sport I love. I just don't go on the internet tooting my own horn about how I spend four hours a year picking up garbage.
Being defensive I see. I wont get into the things you mentioned as they are irrelevant to this topic
I like your thinking but seriously people need to be accountable. Their is just no excuse for not being able to identify a fish. Its not our job as recreational fisher people. I fish for enjoyment and educating people who should know better is not my idea of fun.
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Being defensive I see. I wont get into the things you mentioned as they are irrelevant to this topic
I like your thinking but seriously people need to be accountable. Their is just no excuse for not being able to identify a fish. Its not our job as recreational fisher people. I fish for enjoyment and educating people who should know better is not my idea of fun.
I agree, not much fun when I'm out there to enjoy myself, although I would still do it.
Just an idea here,
First time license holders are required at all times ,when angling, to have in their possession an up to date FISHING REGULATIONS SYNOPSIS BOOKLET, where they can identify their catch if needed by looking at the centerfold " FRESHWATER FISH OF BC " where they have the pictures and descriptions of all BC sports fish.
I don't know how far back the records go or if they even keep them, but hypothetically speaking,when buying your new license, if you show your license from the previous year, your exempt, if not your license is stamped with an " N " like a new driver so to speak.Online buyers would have to type in their previous license number to be exempt also. When asked by a CO for your license and your an " N " or NEWBIE say, you must possess the regs, if not your fined. It has to start somewhere , maybe this idea could be reviewed, evaluated etc. etc. and the ball would start rolling in the right direction. Just an idea...any thoughts ???
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Nothing like having someone stand over a fish that has been dragged up on the beach as they flip through a book trying to figure out a species ::)
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Ok,good point, it was just an idea :P How about leader restrictions in the rivers, 36" maximum ??
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To retrict the leader lenth, hope good run would not be ruin is not a bad idea. but it won't stop some of the top flosser at fish travel lane with a 12" leader.
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Thank goodness sockeye is closed and for that matter most Fraser salmon fishing. Being a good run, hope everyone had fun. Tine to rest up in prep for the Vedder.
HAND :)
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http://forum.flybc.ca/index.php?showtopic=26259
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That makes me wanna puke >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Wow...shows you how clueless the average fraser river fisherman is....guy even has pics on his FB page showcasing what must be a dead thompson river steelhead. that indeed exemplifies the reason this fishery needs to change or even shut right down. Disgusting. :-X
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For one dead Thompson river steelhead to shut down millions of dollars to bring to B.C. I don't think so. for ones who really care, try to be nice to educate the newbie.
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For one dead Thompson river steelhead to shut down millions of dollars to bring to B.C. I don't think so. for ones who really care, try to be nice to educate the newbie.
This statement is very discouraging. Who really cares ?? ::) I for one, know a my smelly socks load of guys and gals that do. Do you know how bad the #'s are for the Thompson and Chilcotin steelhead ??? let alone the coho ::) As for educating the NEWBIE, I better leave that one alone :-X ::) ::) ;D
Maybe not close the sockeye fishery down completely , but at least shut it down a lot earlier. Do you really think people didn't get enough fish ??? Again, a sad statement to say the least IMO anyway.
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yeah its only one out of a few hundred...no big deal right? it's all for the greater good so people could fill their freezers with more sockeye that will end up freezer burnt.... what a hero
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for ones who really care, try to be nice to educate the newbie.
For ones who enjoy the fishery, try to initiate educational projects and demonstrate that negative impacts can in fact be reduced.
One dead Thompson River steelhead out of several hundreds per year's run equates to a significant loss in genetic diversity.
It is also in sockeye fishery proponents' best interest to start something now, because the day when stocks such as the Thompson River steelhead make the SARA listing, all fisheries taking place during their run timings will cease to take place, regardless how many million dollars they may generate.
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For one dead Thompson river steelhead to shut down millions of dollars to bring to B.C. I don't think so. for ones who really care, try to be nice to educate the newbie.
Folks, I think he meant that the gov't will never bow down when the money is there, not that he thinks we should keep the fishery open. Don't attack the guy until you know for sure.
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Folks, I think he meant that the gov't will never bow down when the money is there, not that he thinks we should keep the fishery open. Don't attack the guy until you know for sure.
Thanks, look at the total picture.
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It's the people inside the " SMALL FRAME " that don't see the " BIG PICTURE ". Remember, it's supposed to be about the FISH, as in the one dead Thompson steelhead and the many more coho and steelhead we haven't seen poached or killed mistakenly, let alone what the nets do. Education is only for people who WANT to learn, I'd say the percentage don't really give a damn, as long as they get what their after. Nobody will ever change that, but at least an earlier closure would help out some anyway. It's to bad we're just grains in the sand, and are opinions on the welfare of the stocks really don't have much pull, or so it seems.
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In the regulations they should have a penalty page with pictures of the loser. Also amount of a fine/truck confiscated etc. Worksafe style. Then everyone could identify the culprit for further penalties.
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I've seen a few Coho bonked on the river this year and people don't have a clue. I'm glad this fishery is finally over.
Many great suggestion have been made throughout this post. I like the idea of having a test for the liscense or increase the cost of the liscense during sockey season to pay for DFO officers to sit on every bar and "Regulate"
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BEEKO BE GONE!!!! I hope tubby can swim because if I see him on the river this fall hes going for a swim.