Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: milo on October 13, 2009, 04:03:20 PM
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Fishing is about having a good time.
Chill out.
Go seek stretches of river with few or no people.
Or go fish some other stream altogether.
As it is, most of us have duties and issues to deal with at work or at home.
Why make fishing another thing that will raise your blood pressure?
Fishing is supposed to be fun, but from most of the posts lately, it seems fishing the Vedder has become a challenge, a place to witness disgusting displays of lack of ethics and borderline immorality.
If so, why are you still fishing with the unruly crowds? ???
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because I can't usually get into a fist fight at home or at work
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I agree my good buddy. All I read on this forum and a couple others is how bad it is, yet all these people complaining keep going back. I for one wont be fishing the Vedder until Steelhead season. Plenty of other places I know about to fish for coho where I dont have to deal with the crowds and BS.
BTW phone call coming tonight my friend.
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because I can't usually get into a fist fight at home or at work
Hasn't taking up recreational boxing crossed your mind?
You might even meet some pretty cool guys who share your passion for fist fighting. :)
Only morons get into fist fights on the flow. ::)
BTW phone call coming tonight my friend.
Make sure to call me after 8 PM, Bry.
I'll be tutoring till late this evening.
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Where else can you go and have a legitimate chance of bonking 4 coho?
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People are Sheeple-at least most of them are.
Show them a crowd and they'll rush to join.
Add to that a crippling lack of life experience and you have a recipe for disenchantment.
The fact is that Canada is one of the best countries in the world to live in and all most Canadians do is b!tch, b!tch, b!tch!
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Fishing the Vedder is like going to a hockey game. You are always excited to go watch a game and if they win you leave in a great mood, if they have a terrible game you go home and bitch about it for a few days. But we still go to the games why? Because we love hockey.
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Agree 100% that fishing should be about fun and I can actually say that I enjoy the crowds up to a certain level. I find I learn at least as much from people around me as I do from this site and I enjoy interacting with people who share my enjoyment of this sport. Still find it hard to see people deliberately abusing fish but I am getting used to it and I dončt bother fighting with people over it - its pretty obvious they will not pay attention anyway.
As for escaping the crowds, easy for you guys who have been fishing the Vedder for years. I still don't know my way round there nearly well enough. Tried getting there really early and away from the Lickman parking lot. It turned out to be a real dud because I just struggled to find water more than a foot deep within half an hours walk away. It didn't take long for me to realize I had blown it because I could have just stuck by the deep pool right near the lot and likely done way better. [By the time I got back there the river was already overrun].
With the pressure of crowds, lack of knowledge of the river combined with the long drive out there, rushing out and exploring isn't the best option if there are potentially more promising, if not more crowded pools, right nearby.
I am not complaining just pointing out that rushing around exploring just to avoid crowds has sometimes been counter productive for me.
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Agree 100% that fishing should be about fun and I can actually say that I enjoy the crowds up to a certain level. I find I learn at least as much from people around me as I do from this site and I enjoy interacting with people who share my enjoyment of this sport. Still find it hard to see people deliberately abusing fish but I am getting used to it and I dončt bother fighting with people over it - its pretty obvious they will not pay attention anyway.
As for escaping the crowds, easy for you guys who have been fishing the Vedder for years. I still don't know my way round there nearly well enough. Tried getting there really early and away from the Lickman parking lot. It turned out to be a real dud because I just struggled to find water more than a foot deep within half an hours walk away. It didn't take long for me to realize I had blown it because I could have just stuck by the deep pool right near the lot and likely done way better. [By the time I got back there the river was already overrun].
With the pressure of crowds, lack of knowledge of the river combined with the long drive out there, rushing out and exploring isn't the best option if there are potentially more promising, if not more crowded pools, right nearby.
I am not complaining just pointing out that rushing around exploring just to avoid crowds has sometimes been counter productive for me.
We were all there like you at on point in our fishing lives. Dont feel bad. My advice is fish it hard during steelhead season. For one the crowds are not there, two in order to be successful during steelhead season you need to cover lots of water so that means lots of walking.
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Where else can you go and have a legitimate chance of bonking 4 coho?
Yes everyone the Vedder is the only game in town... ;D
If you want coho you have to fish the vedder it's the #1
river bar none . ;D ;D ;D
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Where else can you go and have a legitimate chance of bonking 4 coho?
There are several places to catch multiple coho during an outing. Unfortunately they are all low low low.
I think once we get this rain we're expecting, those in the know will not be fishing the Vedder.
With the pressure of crowds, lack of knowledge of the river combined with the long drive out there, rushing out and exploring isn't the best option if there are potentially more promising, if not more crowded pools, right nearby.
I am not complaining just pointing out that rushing around exploring just to avoid crowds has sometimes been counter productive for me
I don't think exploring is ever counter productive. Its extremely rewarding and educational. I have walked probably 90% of the fishable portion of the Vedder. Some days I walked more than I fished. I am very happy with my exploration. I am able to get away from the crowds and I feel more confident. I know my options and don't feel as though I am missing out on a better spot, etc. Plus as you start adding spots to your circut it allows you to strategically fish those areas based on sun/shade. I try to fish as much shaded water as possible, especially with these low and clear conditions.
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Pin_Head, Amen to that!
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Great thread Milo!
Fishing is about more than just bringing a fish home. It's about being outdoors, seeing the changing seasons, the lifecycle of the salmon, etc, etc. I think we often are so focussed on catching a fish we forget to enjoy the experience.
I notice from the comments that the fishermen that don't seem to get riled with the Vedder do a lot of exploring and probably don't stand with the crowds of people.
As far as the lack of ethical fishermen, although there are some of them, most of the fishermen fishing "unethically" probably lack the experience to do the right thing. I'm not sure what's the best way to educate these folks but one at a time as we come in contact with them is probably the most practical.
As far as the truly unethical fishermen, keep phoning them in! With enough phone calls the fisheries officials will show more of a presence. Having more people out on the Vedder fishing is a good thing, as it draws more attention to our sport and that makes the politicians take note when they make decisions about the management of the resource.
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We were all there like you at on point in our fishing lives. Dont feel bad. My advice is fish it hard during steelhead season. For one the crowds are not there, two in order to be successful during steelhead season you need to cover lots of water so that means lots of walking.
Oh I am sure you all were and I don't feel bad because I am just addicted to getting out regardless of whether I catch anything. (..just a bit awkward when I take my wife with me. She is kinda half interested in fishing but complains that we do more walking than fishing :)) I think your advice is very good and I had a go looking for steelhead one day last year - realized there were no t many easy holes just above Keith Wilson and I did not get anything. The only way I can really do it is head out on my own or with someone equally determined - one has to be hard core about this I think.
And I agree with you mr.p that it is important to explore. Just find that I sometimes focus so much on exploring I forget about the promising hole right in front of me just because I am worried it might get crowded later on. (I usually arrive early before the rush). These days I am learning to accept crowds and enjoy the benefits that can come from talking to fishermen next to me - I can pick up some real gems that way. Even better they help me and I help them when I am doing well and the guy next to me isn't. [Only if I am asked because I don't ever want to appear like a know it all]
My take is it will take years before I am good enough or knowledgeable enough to explore successfully and I accept that. Its what keep this sport interesting for me just like anything else that requires effort for reward.
Good thread by the way.
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Been living beside the vedder river for 30yrs, know every inch of her and will not fish her during salmon season ,gave that up many yrs ago when fishing a favorite spot untill word got out and they started sleeping on the bank the night before and by first light there was two lines of people one in front and one behind casting overtop of each other.You will see me going hard during steel season its still crowded but i know spots with very few anglers around.For those in the know waiting for rain ain't been that good there the last couple of yrs either, you know what im talking about.
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Milo's pointing out that, if you choose to stand next to garbage, don't complain about the stench.
Pin_head brought up good points, which most of us already know about, but...
Repetitively bringing up the same thing you see on an online forum is not doing something about it, it's called venting. If you choose to discuss the issue, discuss it constructively with new thoughts that you can put forward to the group, otherwise, you'd just be degenerating a thread like these one:
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=21986.0
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=22287.0
Be a problem solver, not a chronic whiner. Quite a few CWs on this forum right now, who we can do without.
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Milo's pointing out that, if you choose to stand next to garbage, don't complain about the stench.
Thank you, Rodney. Couldn't have said it better.
For the record, I fish the Vedder more than most posters on this board. In years of fishing it, I have learned a few things that help me make the best out of my day (and no, Dion, bonking four hatchery cohos is not what makes a great day of fishing - you of all people should know better). But every day of exploring teaches me new things, more than I can learn fishing shoulder to shoulder in a busy honey hole.
First, and foremost, there is no need to set one's mind on one particular spot and deprive yourself of sleep only to be there before anybody else. My experience has taught me that most of the time someone else will beat you to the spot. That can be a real turnoff. And even if you are the first to get there, half an hour later it will get crowded. When that happens, it's time to move on.
I never know where I will start my fishing day. If it is an extremely busy day - a great combination of good weather, plenty of fish and so on, I will just drive along the river until I see an area (AREA - not one spot) with few or no cars parked along the road. Then I will flip a coin to decide whether I will explore upstream or downstream. As I work the area, I might reach a spot where a bunch of people are stationed - hogging a spot. As I work my way down or up, I may or may not decide to make a few casts. I'll do it when someone leaves their 'rock' to go chase a fish down the river or is taking a break or just tying up a new setup. Most of the time, I make my intentions clear and tell the person I will move on as soon as they want to fish 'their' spot again. Three to five casts is all you need to determine whether there are willing biters holding in there. After that it is just a waste of time.
It pays off to move - especially in the canal area. You wouldn't believe how many FANTASTIC spots are created daily between two crowded spots - depending on the tides or the rain. Don't assume that where you see a bunch of guys there must be fish.
A case in point was on Sunday. Right at the confluence, there was the mother of all gong shows going on. I watched for a while, fished for a while and when I couldn't take the 'stench' anymore, I moved upstream. Not 100 yards upstream, there was a fantastic seam created by the upcoming tide. No one, and I mean, no one was fishing there, even though there were at least fifty people only a hundred yards downstream from me. In about half and hour, I hooked into more fish (zero pinks) than in three previous outings combined. Sure enough, after a while some people joined me, but the particular seam had already deteriorated (disappeared) with the rising water and the fish had spread all over the place.
I moved on, and was again rewarded with a find that I just can't believe had been there all these years. I hooked into 6 coho in half an hour, landing only one. All that within shouting distance of the crowds, yet only one person was fishing there at the time. He also hit numerous fish and landed most of them because he's simply a much better rod than I am. As we were leaving, he commented on how silly people are complaining about the crowds when all it takes is to move around a bit and read the water.
You know who you are as you read this forum regularly.
Good sharing the spot with you last Sunday. :)
Ah, the Vedder...As someone said, probably the best salmon fishing stream south of the Skeena, if you know where to look. ;)
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Great post, just one thing about it i disagree with..moving into someones spot as they leave it fighting a fish..this is a no no...i for one would get peed off.If the dude is sitting there retying or resting then okay after asking, but never when he leaves to fight a fish because the bite may be on and your in dudes spot now hooking a fish.No not right.
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Fishing is about having a good time.
Chill out.
Go seek stretches of river with few or no people.
Or go fish some other stream altogether.
As it is, most of us have duties and issues to deal with at work or at home.
Why make fishing another thing that will raise your blood pressure?
Fishing is supposed to be fun, but from most of the posts lately, it seems fishing the Vedder has become a challenge, a place to witness disgusting displays of lack of ethics and borderline immorality.
If so, why are you still fishing with the unruly crowds? ???
That's funny coming from you. I've see you get super riled with other people on chat forums.
Doesn't it apply the same as the vedder? Why don't you just walk away and not engage in debates online etc, milo.
To each his own, some care about the vedder and get upset with abuse/crowding just like you get upset with people who's opinions i've seen differ then yours and you get into it tooth and nail...(you know, on the other site but here as well)
Walking "away" on vedder is as easy for some as walking 'away" from internet arguments.
Next time someone posts something you totally disagree with we'll see if you can just walk "away" lol.
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That's funny coming from you. I've see you get super riled with other people on chat forums.
Walking "away" on vedder is as easy for some as walking 'away" from internet arguments.
Next time someone posts something you totally disagree with we'll see if you can just walk "away" lol.
Your analogy is like comparing apples and a piece of steak. The only similarity is you can eat them... ;D
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Great post, just one thing about it i disagree with..moving into someones spot as they leave it fighting a fish..this is a no no...i for one would get peed off.If the dude is sitting there retying or resting then okay after asking, but never when he leaves to fight a fish because the bite may be on and your in dudes spot now hooking a fish.No not right.
Trust me, Frankey, that is never an issue. By the time the guy is back, I am out of his spot.
I know better.
That's funny coming from you. I've see you get super riled with other people on chat forums.
Doesn't it apply the same as the vedder? Why don't you just walk away and not engage in debates online etc, milo.
You're funny, dennisK. :)
I am all for healthy debates, but they have been few and far between in the last several months. Hence, I haven't posted much, both here and on the other forum I frequent. Trust me, I have learned to "walk away" from morons - both on the forum and on the river. I love and care too much for the Vedder to let the Octoberfest scum get the best of me. Negativity only brews more negativity.
My opening post and subsequent reply was only meant to nudge some newcomers in what I think is the right direction.
I never expected to snag an old moldy forum chum like you, though. ;)
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wow. whiners need to do more talk less.
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For the most part i agree but by putting your head in the sand does it not make the problem go away!Last time out i helped a couple of guys with the set up they were using and as soon as i explained it to them they were grateful and started hooking into fish not snagging fish.
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Last time out i helped a couple of guys with the set up they were using and as soon as i explained it to them they were grateful and started hooking into fish not snagging fish.
I do that all the time. But that doesn't mean I need to grow roots at the meatholes and get upset about the lack of ethics displayed in such places.
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Well actually Milo I have the jerk and rip technique at a few walk places as well,So it's not just the meathole's:)
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Hey Milo, great post. I did fish next to you in the upper river last year. We both did well and you seemed like a very ethical fisherman. Hope to see you at that spot very soon again!
This post reminds of a friends father who fishes the Vedder. We were fishing a spot a few years back when two guys started argueing. So my friends father who was around 50 yrs old at the time yells out to them "if I wanted to hear any b****ing I would have stayed home" and everybody including the two guys argueing started to laugh. But it was a great point, why argue and complain? Even if there are annoying crowds. You are fishing on the river, quiet, no noise, very peaceful and above all you are NOT at work!!
Ryan
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Great post, just one thing about it i disagree with..moving into someones spot as they leave it fighting a fish..this is a no no...i for one would get peed off.If the dude is sitting there retying or resting then okay after asking, but never when he leaves to fight a fish because the bite may be on and your in dudes spot now hooking a fish.No not right.
I agree with this totally. I fish the Veddar a few times a year, as I prefer to fish other rivers where I catch more coho (although you are not allowed to take home 4 in the other rivers). But when I do fish the Veddar, and get up at some ungodly hour to get a good spot, the last thing I want to see is someone take that spot when I've moved to land a fish. It's fine to find new water, but not water that someone else is actively fishing