Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: keithr on July 19, 2005, 07:17:27 AM
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Last week I fished some very pretty water (Deadman River and Lakes), and it seemed to me that the pike minnows have largely taken over or become the dominant species there. I made eagle chow out of the ones I caught, but I wonder if that (giving their necks a twist and tossing them back) is considered the appropriate or even legal way to deal with these fish. What do you do with them?
Over the years I've changed my opinion about coarse fish a lot. I now have a rather high opion of carp for instance; but squaw fish? I have to admit that people in Mexico eat the variety of squaw fish (local name: sardina) we have there.
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I bonk them and use pieces of them to use bait for more squaw fish.......and then when I have enough bait I just bonk em' and toss em' seagulls enjoy this.......I also know of people who use them for sturgie bait....
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It's strictly against the law to waste in any way any fish caught by Sportfishing.
Not only is it against the law it gives a very poor impression of Sportfishing in general and is an ignorant selfish and altogether idiotic way to conduct oneself.
You guys need to give your personal behaviour a long hard think. ::)
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I could care less about squaws in lakes but if I'm fishing a river enhabited by salmon, more times than not my cats end up getting a special treat ;)
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I could care less about squaws in lakes but if I'm fishing a river enhabited by salmon, more times than not my cats end up getting a special treat ;)
You don't like your cat do you ? ;D
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Actually I'm not impressed with one of them as she won't stop peeing on my hockey bag >:(
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Actually I'm not impressed with one of them as she won't stop peeing on my hockey bag >:(
I had that problem as well years ago. Is your cat fixed? My cat was young about 8 months old and was spraying on my hockey bag. I got him fixed and he stopped doing it. It wasnt easy getting rid of that smell but I did get it out. Used some pet deodarizer and hand washed it numerous times.
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I don't think I need to give my Personal behavior a good hard think.......the sturgie's eat pike minnows and practically anything that falls to the bottom of the river.....and since there was a very low return of oolichons......its ok to through one or two back dead.....Its not like I kill 10+ squaw daily.........on an average day I'll bonk 5 squaws......there is not a lot of people who fish for them suckers anyways.. and if I kill 5 a day for the 5 days I squaw fish well I guess thats only 25 squaq killed out of the 200,000,0000 that are in the river...... and plus the seagulls/sturgeon get hungry when there is not enough guts in the river to go around.......so practically when I through them back I'm either feeding a Seagull or Sturgeon........
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Sam Salmon, it is illegal to use other finfish for bait in freshwater streams, unless fishing for sturgeon. However, because coarse fish do not fall under "game fish" as defined by the Freshwater synopsis they are not protected. Besides, if you are a lover of Salmon, Trout and Steelhead take a look at what an overpopulation of coarse fish has done to slower moving streams (where they thrive) like the lower Pitt and Stave Rivers where there numbers are to large and the food supply to small to feed all the hungry mouths and thus cutthroat fishing and to some extent the coho fishing has suffered. Granted stream degradation, ocean survival and a host of other problems have aided to the decline, but I assure you coarse fish are not part of the equation in terms of bringing fish back. Catch a few pike minnows in the spring in the lower Pitt and have a look at their stomachs, you'll be shocked at how many fry a 10 inch pike minnow can eat. I don't condone abusing any creature in anyway, however a quick bonk on the head and light toss will put a smile on some carnivores face. Tight lines!
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Actually I'm not impressed with one of them as she won't stop peeing on my hockey bag >:(
Has she lost a lot of weight recently, and is very hungry/drinks a lot?
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Sam Salmon, it is illegal to use other fin fish for bait in freshwater streams, unless fishing for sturgeon.
You mean headless fin fish are OK to use for bait-I understand that.
However, because coarse fish do not fall under "game fish" as defined by the Freshwater synopsis they are not protected.
FFS-Use your head Man!
I'm not talking about a narrow legal definition I'm talking about dough heads bragging openly about slaughtering any species they catch.
This is all about politics and perception.
If the public at large perceive Sportfishermen to be wastrels who wantonly slaughter anything they catch then the good work of many decades/generations-the cleanups/teaching seminars/workshops/endless meetings/WHY-goes right out the window.
Does this make sense?
There are people who read this board every damned day who would love to use the ignorant comments as posted against all of us.
Why give them ammunition?
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This particular cat is 11 she's been fixed for 10 years and likes to have hissy fits when we don't feed her. :-\
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Well I have to admit that the two guys from Vancouver I was camping with (these aren't fishermen) got a pained look on their faces when they saw me put a kink in one and toss it back. I said, "These guys aren't worth eating, and they are rapcaious (they understand these terms) with the juvenile members of better species. They are fish vermin." They seemed to buy it.
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Sam Salmon bonking a coarse fish is a way of not wasting your hard efforts (and mine) in terms of trying to bring back salmon to rivers. How are you going to bring back fish that can't make it out to sea? Remember, it is your fees from licensing that supports government grants that go to improving the sport, not public tax dollars and so I really do not give a **** what the majority of the uneducated populous (in terms of fishing ;) thinks. Please, do not get me started on special interest groups who have their own personal aganda and do not ask me to appease them. The seminars, river clean ups, hatchery programs and the countless other initiatives go into promoting and sustaining the industry amongst people who care. I just came back from fishing and conversing with the Murphy's and the sport industries bigget problem is trying to get more young fishermen out fishing so we can sustain our own populous and be heard within government walls. The state of Washington took on a great initiative that both helped rivers and the young. They incorporated derbies for pike minnows on certain salmon bearing streams. For every pike minnow brought in the kid was given a point, draw ticket or what ever else the tournament organizers could come up with to make it an enjoyable outing for everyone. Your absolutely write that there are dough heads out there that will kill anything for there s**** and giggles, but there are dough heads in every industry job, profession, volunterr group and so on. Sam Salmon, if you have time do me a favour and read an article by Bill Thorington (Friends of the Eel river) about Pike Minnows. Oh ya, if you think sportfishing is about politics and perception we would have lost a long time ago, it is kept alive by people who care about it like yourself, myself, Nick Baseok, Chris Gadson, Scotty Baker-Mcgarva, Fred Helmer, Cam Arnetz, Eric Carlisle and all the fishermen and fisherwomen who fish for sport and the love of it.
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You just don't get it and as long as you drink the bathwater of other people who think like you there is no hope!
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Did you even bother reading the article?
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wintersteel,
I read another article by the chap you mentioned (couldn't find the specific one you were talking of). The overwhelming difference I think is that this guy was talking about pike minnows that were illegally introduced to an area, not native fish. Pike minnows are native to most BC rivers and many lakes and have been a natural part of the ecological balance in these streams for hundreds, if not thousands of years. Sure they eat salmon eggs and salmon fry etc, but so do raindow trout, cuthroat, bull trout/dollies, whitefish etc. Do we need to go around bonking all of them too? Or do we only leave the ones that we deem to be sporting?
In any event, IMHO, bonking pike minnows is not and has never been the answer to salmon and steelhead or other sportfish population issues. Keeping some pikeminnos to use as sturgy bait where legal, in my opinion is fine as long as they are not wasted. I think it would also be fine to present them to eagles, ospreys etc. if there was one obviously in the immediate area looking for an immediate meal. Killing a native fish of any type and wasting it though is just wrong. Of course, there may be some areas in BC where pike minnows are not native - I have different opinions in such situations.
To they guy who started this thread, you mentioned that you were fishing the Deadman drainage. I don't believe these lakes have ever been very productive for trout and have always been highly populated with "coarse" fish. Many people may find this hard to believe, but most of the lakes in the Kamloops area did NOT have a natural rainbow trout population until they were introduced to these lakes by man (including some of Kamloops' world class lakes!). I'd be willing to bet that a lot of these lakes, if not most, had natural populations of peamouth chub, and pike minnow's (coarse fish) though...
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Hey, we have a minnow lover here! ;D
Those are good points UncleTrout. People have to realize, to raise the salmon populations, we need to reduce human impacts. These include harvesting, development, gravel extraction, pollution, water extraction, mining, and other outdoor activities.
Keep in mind that northern pikeminnow and other natural predators make up a selective pressure that continues the evolutionary process on the salmon populations. slower, weaker fry are eaten, while faster, stronger ones escape to the ocean. The end result is a gene pool that produces stronger and faster fish. Human harvest does not induce that process for the better, because we take out the bigger, stronger ones (or actually just any fish) for food. Every species in an ecosystem has costs and benefits to its habitat and associated species. By disrupting the food web and interactions between populations, we may in fact be putting the species that we try to save at risk.
Culling of a population or introducing a species to control another pest should always be the last option after sufficient sampling and analysis have been done.
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Rodney and Uncle Trout (great name by the way) you raise points that I believe every true sportsman would agree with. Sure improved stream flows, restricted harvesting, ocean survival, development etc....etc.... are all detrimental or have an impact (both +/-) to the fish and sport that we love. However, due to overharvesting, stream degradation etc..etc.. those bull trout (dollies), rainbows and cutthroat unfortunately do not take the lions share of the fry that swim down stream as there numbers are well depleted. Dollies/Bull Trout and Cutthroat are piscivorous fish and used to control the population (to some extent) on rivers where they were present. However as the number of predators disappeared over the past two decades there numebrs increased dramatically in the Pitt. Also, Rodney I agree with your theory of evolution in terms of survival of the fittest, however strength in numbers also plays a role in that. A population must have natural predators to be kept it in check, however, should the numbers be skewed for what ever reason it could have a dramatic impact on the ecosystem and all particpating members of it. I am not a marine biologist, science major or Jacques Crousteau (did I spell that right?) I just felt that those that took the pike minnows on the Deadman should not have been persecuted (for a lack of a better word-its late) as such. As I mentioned in previous posts the lower Pitt used to be one of my favorite stomping grounds when I was a young fishermen and it has definately changed and not for the better. Has urbanization played a role: absolutely, stream degradation:definately, over harvesting:certainly, ocean survival: without a doubt and an increase in the population of pike minnows: an emphatic yes. Uncle Trout if you use google as a search engine type in Bill Thorington November 1 2004 Friends of the Eel river. He has written some interesting articles on the topic of Pike Minnows. Rodney, it would be interesting to see how much information the DFO or our province has on pike minnows and there impact on a streams/rivers/lakes ecosystem. It seems to me that the state of Washington has done extensive studies (or have provided the funding for such studies) on pike minnows and there impact on the Columbia and surrounding rivers. The internet if used right is a wonderful resource, tight lines to all.
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I guess it turns out this isn't as easy a topic as I expected. I wish squaw fish didn't have so many bones. And the ones in the river near our place in Mexico are just riddled with parasites (little knots in the flesh). Has anybody tried smoking them? Would the brine soften up those bones?
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Winter steel, good points. :) The Cultus Lake sockeye recovery plan has had some extensive pikeminnow studies done in the past. I'll try to fetch out some information to share with you later on (ie. after sockeye season, too many meetings until the end of this summer).
Keith, several Chinese anglers who I know personally have tried making fish cakes out of them by pounding the flesh to small pieces. They say it worked out very well. By the way, where are you now?
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We got back to Oregon yesterday. I did some fishing on Powell Lake. It was beautiful (really beautiful) there (we were on a floating cabin for a week), but the fishing was pretty slow--I caught a few cutthroats. I'm going to make a post in the cooking section re: squawfish cakes. I'll bet there is some seasoning involved.