Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Steelhawk on December 02, 2004, 12:03:15 AM
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Steelhead season is coming. Look forward to a great season for the hard-nosed steelheaders. On the Vedder, steelhead rules about what you can do after keeping your fish changed over the years. For a while two hatcheries were allowed, then it was one & catch & release afterwards, now it it no fishing at all after retaining a fish.
I have always fished alone for steelhead. Even if it may not affect me, I think the current steelhead rule of stopping fishing (for the rest of the day) is really a bit inhumane for the 'fishing buddies' situation. It puts too much pressure on the other guy who is without a fish, as he is dragging his other buddy (who might have kept a fish early morning) for the rest of the day by sitting & watching wherever they go. Should he just quit & go home early, or should he continue? How long it becomes too much a hazzle for the waiting buddy? Just tough question I am glad I don't have to deal with for fishing alone.
Through the years, I once witnessed an embarrassing but funny scenario at the river. Three buddies were fishing a run with some of us. All of a sudden, a school of steelies arrived at the run, and 10 steelies were hooked in short order & I was fortunate to hook one, a wild 15# beauty Two of the 3 buddies hooked and landed their hatcheries and were sitting back watching their remaining buddy to try to get one. They were really in high mood and cracking jokes. Half an hour went by, the bite stopped. The remaining buddy knew he missed his chance, and would have to drag two guys along the whole day. He was so upset. With a loud curse, he threw his whole outfit, a pretty good set, rod & reel and all, to the water, and stormed out of the run, cursing along the way. His two poor buddies were quite embarrassed & shocked, and quietly took their fish and left too. What a pity! A good day turned ugly. Funny but logical, the rest of us changed our fishing target right away, and you know what we were trying to hook on to......
I know DFO make some rules to protect the fish, the river, or what have you. But I am not sure if this rule really mean that much in terms of conservation. How many guys can hook & land two steelies in a day consistently? I just think it is quite inhumane to fishing buddies unless they don't intend to keep a steelie. Since it is not a concern of mine, I am just voicing this to see how others feel about it. Is the rule really necessary, or should DFO allow the buddy retaining a steelie changed to fly fishing for trout, for example, so it is not too hard for the other buddy to stay fishing for steelie for the rest of the day?
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He was so upset. With a loud curse, he threw his whole outfit, a pretty good set, rod & reel and all, to the water, and stormed out of the run, cursing along the way. His two poor buddies were quite embarrassed & shocked, and quietly took their fish and left too. What a pity! A good day turned ugly.
:o
Anger managerment.... :-X
Easy solution: Once the fish is bonked, take out a couple of garbage bags from the vest and start treasure hunting/garbage picking while the partner fishes... :)
OR, walk and scout out some future potential spots. :)
OR, drive to the store, grab a coffee for yourself and your partner as well. :)
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Interesting post. I live in Vancouver and fish with my brother and nephew. If I'm the fortunate one, I just go back to my car and sleep and be refreshed for the long drive home. Besides, spending time with my nephew is always good.
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Any "buddy" that would react that way when fishing doesn't deserve to fish at all. People like that are why I like solitude when I'm out. I hope he never replaced his gear and stay's on the golf course where he belongs.
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This is a tough rule indeed. I too come from north van and don't look forward to having to end a "day" of fishing because I got a nice steelhead at frist light! even if I was by myself, it would suck to turn around and go home!
On the otherhand, those days when the fishings tough but you do get lucky, what do you have to complain about ...you have your fish so make room for other fishermen on the river!
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When I found myself throwing golf clubs I gave up golf. If anyone ever catches me intentionally littering the bottom of a stream with my fishing outfit, I hope they push me in after it and drive home without me.
Like grumman said . . .
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Funfish,
Your post is a NO BRAINER!!!
I'm glad MOE reinstated the 'bonk your done' reg. And I pray they'd expand it to other types of angling also.
Like sockeye/springs on the Fraser.
My reasoning is simple....we've turned sportfishing into meatfishing. Bringing with it a unethical ME mentallity. Which is spawning into simple human greed.
Heck I wouldn't complain if they closed some angling efforts down for a while to weed out those kind.
My days of 20+ steelies on the Veddar are gone...never to return. Why? Because to many have to bonk something to make the day worthwhile.
I'm not painting everyone here with the same brush...only giving my 2 cents on what the canvas currently looks like... IMO.
Like Rod stated....do some clean-up, tie your buddy up some of your special Steely rigs, teach a neophyte (if around)....inhumane??
Let the fish go then.
Sometimes you can't have your cake and it eat too.
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Bantam_50, my post may be a no brainer for you, as you obviously hate to see people legally keeping a fish, not to say a steelhead. Trying to blame everyone who keeps their legal catch for your decling steelhead success is a bit unreasonable and overboard to me. I have fished for steelhead for 15 years, limited out my cards quite a few times, but I have not found it possible to have consistant success year after year.
Steelheading success is never a consistent thing. It depends on the year and the return, which can be affected by anything from ocean survival, environmental factor etc. One year the Boxing Day Derby weighed in over 30 steelies, and the next year they had to postpone it to January for the lack of fish. Who knows what caused what exactly. To blame your decling success solely on fellow anglers who keep a steelhead legally is unfair and biased. Have you ever kept your hatchery steelheads before? If so, what entitled you to attack others who retain their catch legally? If you are strictly a C&R guy, I salute your inclination, but you cannot insist others to have to follow your fishing approaches.
We are not talking about snagging or flossing here, as it is highly unlikely a steelhead is landed by snagging. So if you attack or don't respect other's right to fish and keep a fish legally as they please, then it is just the same some animal right guy can nail you for the act of fishing, which they claim is cruel to fishes. Even C&R is not good enough. There is no end to such debate & I don't intend to debate such issues which had been debated endlessly in fishing forums.
I make my post for a healthy discussion, not inviting attacks. I respect your C&R inclination, and I hope you can respect others who fish legally but differ from your approaches. That is my 2 cents. Again, the subject means little for me, as I mostly fish alone for steelhead fishing anyway. On the other hand, Rod does make some good, useful and funny suggestions. Thanks.
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Funfish, I think you may have misread Bantam's Post. He says it's OK to keep fish. He's glad that it's now 1 fish, and you're out, rather than the "Good Old Days", when the Vedder had different regs. At the bottom he says:
Like Rod stated....do some clean-up, tie your buddy up some of your special Steely rigs, teach a neophyte (if around)....inhumane??
Let the fish go then.
Sometimes you can't have your cake and it eat too.
Basically, keep your fish, and then be useful...it's not that bad. Your other option, is to C&R it, and hope you'll ever see steel again that day. It's the luck of the river.
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Hey Dragonspeed if you re-read Bantam_50's post you will see that he clearly makes an attack on people who keep their catch, you have to look at why people started fishing in the first place.........FOR FOOD!!!!!!!!!! :-X
I don't think the first people of B.C. used to catch and release ::)
anyways some people have to get of their high horses and realize that everybody isn't as "ethical" as they are when it comes to fishing.
just my two cents
Rick.
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anyways some people have to get of their high horses and realize that everybody isn't as "ethical" as they are when it comes to fishing.
Really, you think? ;)
I think one thing to be careful when participating in these discussion forums is that you need to remember a lot of times words can be misunderstood due to a lack of tone and facial expression. Take it easy guys. :)
Now, the real question is.... How do you keep a girlfriend occupied when she wants to go home but you still haven't landed a steelhead yet..... :-\
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.... Now, the real question is.... How do you keep a girlfriend occupied when she wants to go home but you still haven't landed a steelhead yet..... :-\
D'uhhhh, thats easy, just let her play with your pink worm!! ;D ;D
Shane
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Hilarious, Rod. That is a good pointer for a laugh. What about giving her copies of the Chilliwack real estate listing, and ask her to look for prospective vacation cottages, on condition that you land 10 hatcheries a year, hehe! ;D ;D ;D She will always wait on patiently and encourage you to go fishing all the time :D while doesn't know how hard to reach the goal. She may think as easy as 10 sockeyes or coho. ;D ;D ;D
Basically my post is for the fun of discussion only. It is never intended to be a serious issue nor to attack others' fishing inclination. Just to explore the human impact on a rule we all seem to accept anyway. Does this rule really mean that much statistically? Say, using Boxing Day results, 10 guys keep their fish among 300-500 guys, do these 10 guys occupy that much space enough to reduce fishing pressure? Do they really likey hook into another steelie(s) for the rest of the day? If conservation is not a major issue, what is the purpose of the rule? Is it just to control you sporties what you can or cannot do just for the sake of controlling?
While I respect DFO/MOE on their intention of making rules, but we all know most of their rules don't give us sporties much consideration (like shutting us down at the first sign of trouble, but letting the natives do whatever, now including drift netting the upper Fraser. What about taking away parking spaces at the Scale Bar so you walk till heart attack?). So the post is just to explore this little rule which seems to have very little conservation impact but do cause some stress or unease to steelhead fishing buddies. In fact most of you just address what the guy who had stopped fishing can do, but what about the guy who still try to fish on. Does he feel sorry to have to drag the other guy along for the rest of the day?
This is especially true for buddies who have different fishing skills. The skilled guy may always be the guy with a fish, and the other guy feel such a burden to drag him along all the time, so eventually perhaps the buddies just stop fishing together. Can it happen? Just fun to explore this little human episode as I saw it happened like in my first post. Any interesting observation? I never had to deal with it, so it is fun to know how you guys feel when your buddies seem always waiting for you while you fish on. ???
Most steelheaders know steelheading is not about food. The chance to land a hatchery is not much. The Boxing Day Derby results tell us the cruel reality, usually 10 fish among 500 pretty skilled steelheaders :-[. Like Rod said, landing a hatchery is just a bonus. It is about a way of fishing life, the scenery, the river, the air, and perhaps seeing others fighting the silver bullet... So, let's not attack others for keeping a hatchery steelie which he is entitled to and may happen quite infrequently, and which does not damage a stock like the Chedder where brood stock is from the wild fish.
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Now, the real question is.... How do you keep a girlfriend occupied when she wants to go home but you still haven't landed a steelhead yet..... :-\
Dump your girlfriend. Steelheads take priority. Any serious angler knows that ;D
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Dump your girlfriend. Steelheads take priority. Any serious angler knows that ;D
Well now we're getting somewhere! :D
Wait until she reads this in about 7 hours from now FA, you might be banned from FWR for life. ;D
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Or I might get banned for life ! ;D
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Well said Bantam, though the issues of "taking a fish home" versus "do anything to get my trophy fish" have been blured and put a few on the defensive.Add a little more " hey, try to enjoy yourself out there and think of a nice fish as a bonus rather than an expected result and things might improve a bit here and on the waters edge.
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I don't think its inhumane at all. If you do decide to keep your fish, go for a walk and look for other good spots (not with your rod of course!). Or go for a drive and set a time to meet back with your buddy. You would be suprised at how many new spots you can find and maybe be able to fish the next time!
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If we do the math based on Boxing Day result, even with some of the best years of 30+ fish among 500 steelheaders. So, if you allow the 30 guys to fish on, their chance of landing another steelhead in the afternoon is 30/500. Perhaps even lower than that, as most of the fish that want to bite were already taken in the morning. If the stock can be jeopardized with that low a possibility, perhaps the run is so dangerously low that the river should be shut down for steelheading, like the Cap.
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:o Wow!... if that post of mine was taken as an attack on other anglers....then... well... Rod I should be warned or DS, hit me with the 'delete post' button. ;D
Funfish...you asked for discusssion and input and that's exactly what I supplied... IMO ...no more, no less.
btw - IMO = in my opinion
If you personally felt attacked, I'm truly puzzled...not to sure where you interpreted it. Maybe we need to spend a day on the Vedder together, with you bonking a fish at first light and then me dragging you around all day with a smile on my face. :P
Hopefully it would be the same if I made the bonking decision?
Do I retain fish? Sure do. But after some 30 years of angling (25 on the Vedder) I've come to understand there's more to keeping what you seek, with or with a buddy along.
ps - Rick...I don't ride a horse...and I'm again, curious to be show these clearly attacking remarks. Maybe you could kindly quote them next time. 8)
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Honestly though whats the difference between c&r'ing steelies all day or keep one then c&r'ing all day? it doesnt really put "less pressure" on the fish...
I don't believe that was the intent of the regulation.
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But after some 30 years of angling (25 on the Vedder)
there's where the dis-agreement lies.
???
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The one point that everybody seems to be forgetting is the unmitigated joy of sitting back on the beach (after you have caught and bonked your fish) and heckling your fishing buddy or buddies, and reminding them every few minutes of there obvious inadequacies as fishermen. ;D ;D
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The one point that everybody seems to be forgetting is the unmitigated joy of sitting back on the beach (after you have caught and bonked your fish) and heckling your fishing buddy or buddies, and reminding them every few minutes of there obvious inadequacies as fishermen. ;D ;D
LOL! Or asking if they want to use your rod or some of that sweet chew you were using or.....My fav is telling them to try that piece of water, watch them foam up the surface, they then move down river only to see another angler walk in behind them and smack one on the first cast. Far from inhumane. ;D
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Bantam, no I don't feel personally attacked at all. I am at peace with my steelheading and fishing in general. Never feel threatened by other fishermen's action around me. I cheer them on :D if they are successful while fishing legally and ethically, and whether they keep their fish or not, I respect their decision as long as they are entitled to keep that fish.
Not a chance to fish at first light for me. I usually don't start until past noon ;D ;D ;D. I have my secret weapon that can dig up fish among rods in any well-worked pool. So I don't care much what the guy next to me would or would not do. I just think I was making a post for some light hearted discussion about human interaction. As detailed in my first post, I did witness an ugly and embarrassing event between fishing buddies. The joy and jokes from the two buddies from behind might have caused the guy to lose it. I am sure if he had fished alone in the run like the rest of us, he would have continued on in peace.
I am just responding to your comment on others bonking fish which contributed to your declining success. My thread was just about human interaction, not about the ethics of bonking a hatchery steelhead. With your years in the river, you are obviously a great steelheader with great pride in your craft. If I offend you in any ways, I apologize. Have a great steelhead season.
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Funfish,
For the record my post wasn't about me frowning on anglers bonking fish or my declining success. 25 fish days was attainable by any seasoned rod who knew where to look. I added some personalized ranting from those lost days of old. But it shames me how the sport of angling has deminished in recent years and can it ever be brought back again.
IMO that depends on improving human nature.
I believe Centerpins post and my following comments were more what you were looking for. No offense taken, just good interaction. ;D
May your buddies always have you dragging them around all day. Tight lines. ;)
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I think you guys are making my job too easy these days.... ;)
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Now, the real question is.... How do you keep a girlfriend occupied when she wants to go home but you still haven't landed a steelhead yet..... :-\
You promise to do what ever she wants for one full day and show equal amount of interest in her life as she is showing in your fishing! That should shut her up….. ;D
D'uhhhh, thats easy, just let her play with your pink worm!! ;D ;D
Shane
I dunno….pink worms are not too interesting in the cold…..
Dump your girlfriend. Steelheads take priority. Any serious angler knows that ;D
Rodney wouldn’t dare. Besides I know fishing takes priority, next after me that is... ;D ;)
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Tell me about it i have had a few girlfriends dump me cause fishing comes first... ;D
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Whats really bad is having a fishing pal like Gooey, who when he does get the first fish keeps looking at his watch. Then keeps nagging about leaving soon.
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Agree, Nicefish. My post is more on the guy who is w/o a fish and has to face with dragging the buddies along for the rest of the day, as story of the 3 buddies illustrates. It may intimidate a younger steelheader to try to fish with a seasoned rod, and it MAY cause seasoned rods to hesitate to bring along apprentices more often (not a problem for me, as no young hot-blooded steelheader will go fishing that late like me, hehe!). Just a human possibility. And for a laugh, a girl friend may consider a boyfriend of the mall type than a steelhead nut. ;D ;D ;D Sorry Rod, not to start anything bad for you. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Rodney wouldn’t dare. Besides I know fishing takes priority, next after me that is... ;D ;)
<She's daring me now, what do I do?> :-X
I tell you what's inhumane....
A couple of years ago, while the two of us were fishing for bull trout in the winter, she managed to get into one very nice fish soon after we arrived.
I proceeded to loss one fish, possibly bigger, but we will never know. :o
Two hours later, I was still in the water, flogging away, hoping to connect with just one fish.
Then, after sitting on the bank for awhile, seemingly bored, she suggested that we should go home. :o
So we left...
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Ya, Rod, that is a bit inhumane, but at least she was fishing with you :). Not easy to find a fishing girlfriend nowadays. I have a better one. Once a while ago I helped a greenie along with salmon fishing. He did quite well, so when the steelhead season rolled along, he wanted to try steelhead fishing. But his girlfriend just came in town to visit. Tough decision. Somehow he won - she would come along with us to watch our fishing. What a miserable decision. Back then we were first-lighters. So we arrived at the river in the dark, fished for the whole day, the poor lady braved the element for a short while watching us, bored, then stayed in the car for the whole day, sick, and chilled to death. Worst still, we went home skunked for the day. Well, I thought she would give him the ultimatum - stop your fishing or else... She never did. Somehow she survived the 'inhumane' treatment by her fishing crazed boyfriend. They live happily ever after. Sometimes, miracles do happen. :) Amen.
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Can't the buddies carry a small portable trout outfit (gear or fly), which would be used in the scenario described above?
The first one to land and bonk a steelie could still fish for trout or whitefish while the other buddy keeps trying for steel.
That, and what Rodney suggested can pretty much save the day.
Cheers, Milo
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Milo, unfortunately the answer is NO! The current rule from MOE imposed on us sporties is stop fishing the river for the rest of the day, period. The friend without a fish has the option to chuck the whole outfit into the river and go home. ;D ;D ;D
DFO/MOE are used to treating us sporties as a goup w/o much human feelings, so they won't think the rule as being inhumane. ;D:(