Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: gman on September 09, 2004, 08:36:26 PM
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I would usually not provide a link to a thread on another forum, but this one is very interesting. I happen to agree that many of these ideas would address some of the problems and issues with the Fraser fishery that have been debated on this board as well. Lets not turn it into a flossing debate please.
http://forum.fishbc.com/index.php?showtopic=12283
My version of the summary of the recommendations of these posts is:
- barbless hooks (adopted 1998)
-artificial lures only while fishing for salmon, trout ,steelhead) ( Sept 9 - October 11) (so no complete fall river closure)
-maximimum leader length restriction, likely one metre or less. 75cm?
Apply's during sockeye closures only
- annual limits on sockeye retention (maybe 10?)
- 2 salmon per day limit
- more enforcement
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Couldn't agree more!
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I agree with most of the suggestions. But can DFO afford the lost revenues from the backlash of lowered license sales? And if there is a lost of revenue where will the next cuts be?
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very interesting proposals fulcram29
but i do see a draw back with #2 and that is we may end up with people bar fishin with 12 foot leaders lol
im cool with 1-3 and 4 but # 5 well i think no one named norm should be allowed to hunt for aggates period ;)
cnm
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Seems reasonable to me
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6) "fair hooked" sockeye MUST be kept. - NO C&R, unless hooked not in mouth (not going to get into the "fair hook" aspect of flossing)
7) once you have two sockeye, you MUST cease fishing the river. (Steelhead like)
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How greedy do we need to be though? Two fish a day is more than enough.
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I like to make full use of my day and get a spring as well if possible. It is a very long drive for me and I am most satisfied when I have my 2 Socks and a spring.
I don't think I'm being greedy ... as the fish are consumed by the family... just trying to make best use of my ...sadly limited...fishing time.
CJ.
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for every one salmon killed you must kill 3 bass ;D ;D
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change of fishing techniques, lowering of daily limits, and increase of funding..... seen and heard it all before.
pointless, if there's lack of enforcement. change needs to be made from 'the top'. political mandate, special interest groups, and commercial distribution. that's the 'Goliath' and cancer of our fishery. haven't we learned our lesson from this country's current history?
Just look at the East Coast. Practically no recreational, or sports industry. Yet they've managed to obliverate their Cod Fishery. Why? because the lack of foresight. Now they want to blame everybody else. it's true international pressures are not helping the cause, but why was that not address sooner? POLITICS .
why deal with the itch, when we should be dealing with the infection?
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My proposal...
rule #1
Barbless hooks, that
a) when used in motion that is not a sationary line, limited less than 2/0
b) no limit when used in conjunction with a stationary line
c) does not apply to sturgeon fishing
rule#2
leader legnth limited to 1meter for lines that are not stationary.
(leader being defined as the legnth of fishing line between the weight and the hook)
rule#3
Classified waters tag. An extra $15 charge to fish for sockeye. (directly paid into a DFO officer's salary!)
rule#4
20 Sockeye per family per year, 4 per family per day.
10 Springs per person per year.
rule #5
Aggate hunting for all!!
IMHO this whole proposal does not make sense to me.
Rule #1 - How would you define what is stationary on a flowing river?
As far as I know things that you put on the flowing river moves.
If you retieve the line will certainly go in motion.
Do you put camera under water all along all the river in BC to prove that the line went in motion?
That would cost a lot of money which every government department are claiming they are short of.
Rule #2 - What happens if the person uses a sliding weight and the hook is connected directly to the main line?
This would allow the flossing portion to be extended once it start to drift. Thus, the rule accomplish nothing.
Rule #3 - Do you remember how the property tax came about?
If the fee is applied it will never be spent as promised (directly paid into a DFO officer's salary1). Sorry to burst you bubble.
Rule #4 - The sockeye rule is an extremely regressive. :o This would penalize large families. Who ever would support this rule would most likely support a rule that abortion is mandatory after a couple have certain number of children.
I am a peace loving person, but I would gladly bear arms and go to war to prevent our society from becoming regressive.
Rule #5 - Should DFO be making rules about aggate?
I do not know whats the big deal about aggate.
The proposal is kind of......................
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agates are very important to the fishery.
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yah, that's right. let's keep increasing the cost of recreational fishing.... that way only the rich and elite can enjoy the sport. better yet, let's create another 'cash cow' for the politicians to dip their fingers in. after all, they've done such a stellar job of managing our fisheries already. :D >:(
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Rule #1 would be referring to a set line, as in bar fishing.
Rule #5 is an inside running joke on FWR
Rule #3 $15 to go back into habitat restoration(general revenue ;))
Actually Rule #5 should have a classified waters permit attached to it also, with me being the issuer ;D
isn't that what the salmon conservation stamp and special permit is for?
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Rule #1 would be referring to a set line, as in bar fishing.
Rule #5 is an inside running joke on FWR
Rule #3 $15 to go back into habitat restoration(general revenue ;))
Actually Rule #5 should have a classified waters permit attached to it also, with me being the issuer ;D
Doc,
Rule #1 - But you can still BB that whole set line setup, with the proper adjustment in weight.
Rule #3 - It still not going to be used the way you said it would. It may take a untill after the next election. The politics of the whole thing will change the rule on how it will be spend. I guarantee that something like this will be increased at a higher rate than inflation. It does not matter what any body say about it, I do not buy it. History fully support my opinion.
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Works for me. I have a change to rule 5 however. I believe that the removal of agates is leading to stream degredation and those that remove them should be charged under the law that prevents damage to spawning beds. ;D
If we could guarantee that the $15 would go to enhancement etc. I'd be all for it. As for 10 springs being too many. HA! You've got to be kidding! How many catch 10? Very few.
Thanks for getting the debate going again. This site has been a little depressed since the sox were closed ;D
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There are many more important issues to deal with regarding the fisheries here in BC. Current rules and regulations are an extremely miniscule portion of the whole picture. The fish population being in decline or not rebounding is more important than what size of hook and the length of leader people should use. There has to be fish in order for us to fish. Not just for ourselves but for future generations. There has to be real scientific research, instead of the kind driven by monetary/political interest. The government have to be kept in check on how they spend our hard earned money.
IMHO, these and associated issues are more pressing problems that we all have to focus our energy on.
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;D ;D ;D
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Works for me. I have a change to rule 5 however. I believe that the removal of agates is leading to stream degredation and those that remove them should be charged under the law that prevents damage to spawning beds. ;D
If we could guarantee that the $15 would go to enhancement etc. I'd be all for it. As for 10 springs being too many. HA! You've got to be kidding! How many catch 10? Very few.
Thanks for getting the debate going again. This site has been a little depressed since the sox were closed ;D
i hear agates is huge in the 'black market'. all those little kiddies walking around with their 'bling-blings', getting rich of these rocks. "i second your motion" :D ;D :D ;D
asking the government for guarantees, is like asking them to break down how the 'GST' is used. i caught 101 springs last year, only 99 were tyees... the rest were jacks ;D
as far as this site being depressing since the closure of sockeyes...... you're the 'Yabb God'.... maybe you should be the one to 'stir things up' once in a while ;) ;D
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I say, leave the rules as they are now and increase the fines for the violators by 50x what they are now. The revenue can be used for more enforcement and more valid scientific research.
They increase enforcement to generate even more revenue.
The scientific research to solve the current environmental problems affecting the fisheries.
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maybe you should be the one to 'stir things up' once in a while ;) ;D
Or - Not. The world doesn't have to live in constant state of heated debate for interesting conversation.
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maybe you should be the one to 'stir things up' once in a while ;) ;D
Or - Not. The world doesn't have to live in constant state of heated debate for interesting conversation.
true. i didn't mean it in a 'literal' sense.
however, i should point out. debate can be a great foundation for progress. it's the way it's conveyed that creates 'the heated topic' and poor text in conversation. supression and censorship should be reserved only to protect one's rights and to protect the integrity of the debate itself.
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No harm done blaydRnr. I do stir the pot once in a while. You just missed it ;) I love a good debate. Lets have it out in words a go for a beer after. :D
Lets see....
How do you feel about flossing in the Vedder/Chilliwack? ;D
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It should only be allowed in above the Vedder Crossing Bridge. Below it should only be fly fishing.
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Increase fines!! For example, the fine for fishing without a license is almost less then actually buying a license. Some would see it worthwhile to take a risk on it and not get one. Almost a good risk to take considering the amount of enforcement currently out there.
Cut back on leader length would be #1 in my books.
I like the idea of quitting fishing once you get your limit of sockeye. But then the guy looking for a spring might open its own problems as someone might kill one sockeye and keep on releasing sockeye until they get a spring. ??? Any ideas?
A section on your license to record your sockeye catch to reduce double dipping. A quota on each license (10-20?) might be sensible.
Flossing on the Vedder??? >:( >:( >:( There is certainly no need to floss coho/springs/steelhead/dogs as they are all very willing biters. One might overlook the floss show on the Fraser as sockeye are not as willing (but they WILL!) biters, but not the Vedder.
Ill halt my tirade there! You're all very welcome. ;D
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for every one salmon killed you must kill 3 bass ;D ;D
Now that's a good idea ;)
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Use of gillnet is not an approved sportfishing method for catching salmon. I really believe that they should make 10' leader mandatory for gear fishing. All rivers should be divided into 2 sections. One for gear fishing and the other for fly fishing. ;D
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Well if they do not pay the fine they should wear a shock collar. This collar will be activated by transmitters on the fishing area if they come withing 100 meters.
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Wow! I go away for a day and there is some great chat on here :) good to see.
As for my rules...
I really think there ought to be a family limit and classified waters fee. The family daily limits would ensure that say a man and wife go out with their three kids and grandpa, all who have liscences, and catch 12 sockeye and then come back the next day and do it again. A daily family limit would still permit for family fishing, but once the fish were caught then they could go home and enjoy them for dinner, as a family. :) The annual family limit is also a good way to ensure that people aren't just stocking up their freezers. Maybe a limit of 50, enough to have fish once a week or something.
As for classified waters, i think this would be the best thing to do period. $15 tag to retain sockeye. If you're female dogging about an extra $15, but can budget to spend all that time, gas, and gear for TWO fish per day, then you've been aggate hunting for too long!
With proper and good legislation that money could go directly into a DFO officer's salary. After paying for thier benifits, it probably costs DFO about $75K/year for one. That's 5000 liscences. I'm sure they would sell that many and more.
Just like the photo radar....
sales pitch..... to slow down speeders.
loop hole....... speeders slowing down through radar range, only to speed up again afterwards.
cost to tax payers....millions.
the cost of becoming another street ornament?....
.......priceless.
my point is .... there's 95 million hectacres of land and freshwater in bc. how many licenses do you think you'll have to sell, to cover the number of dfo's needed?
the answer: alot.
better solution... zero tolerence on infractions, stricter penalties, and more importantly, better response on reported violations. at least ... i think its a better start.
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I think it will be more entertaining to watch then. They will be like bugs that brings their own bug zapper.
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I threw out the flossing on the Vedder to stir things up and nobody bit. I guess flossing doesn't work after all :-\ ;D ;D ;D
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1 Meter? ??? That sounds like flossing!
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On preventing foul hooked fish:
If anybody has fished for bass or even looked into fishing for bass you may have heard of the weed guard. Weed guards do what the name states, guards the hook from snagging weeds. The hook point can only penetrate once the guard has been pushed down(when fish bite).
I believe a weed guard on a hook will prevent fish being snagged in places other than the mouth by false strikes.
When I tie a fly with a weed guard, I use 40# mono. I have seen hooks sold with weed guards made of wire. Both work fine.
On regs:
There should be a clear definition in the regs for flossing. If this is going to be an acceptable method of catching sockeye in the Fraser by DFO, this must be stated clearly so that the flossing mentality does not continue to leak into other systems.
If a fish hooked outside the mouth is not going to be accepted by the DFO, the regs must be changed to state that the hook must be IN the mouth.
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I'm not too much of a fan of increased fines... Maybe on par with a speeding ticket, or a few hundred dollars. Repeat offenders should not be issued new liscences! But realistically, you have to ask yourself "what's going to happen if they can't pay a hefty fine?"
I'm not keen on the idea of guys who haven't paid a $1000 fishing fine being locked up in prisons when scum bags who sell dope in stores on commercial walk free. :-\
Makes me wonder about you Fulcrum. :o :o :o :o
Why are you against hefty fines? :o :o :o :o
Why are you comparing how much worst are other crimes compare to breaking fishing regulations? :o :o :o
Why are you worried about not being able to pay the hefty fines? :o :o :o
Why don't you want those who breaks the fishing regulations to end up in jail? :o :o :o
Are you trying to say that it is okay to break fishing regulation because it is not as bad as other crimes? :o :o :o
It is amazing what you can find about people when you let them speak their mind.
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I thought that was at the corner of Hypocrites and Lies.
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Shock collars? ::)
Photo radar actually worked quite well IMO. The vans were in regular "hot zones" for speeding and resulted in many people slowing down in areas where photo radar was to be expected. I think it should come back, if you're too pre-occupied to see a big chevy Van on the side of the road with a tripod infront of it, then you're obviously not paying enough attention to the road and deserve that ticket!
Also, there may be millions of hectares in BC, but the federal department of fisheries and oceans is only responsible for the salmon within it. All too often people confuse federal and provincial jurisdictions :)
photo radar created more problems, than it resolved .
....it created a platform for the infringement of human rights
(the assumption of guilt based on a photograph)
....it created back logs in the judiscial system because of
appeals.
.... it's revenues, were perceived by the public, as being
another 'cash cow'.
i think you're the one who's confused. when you talk jurisdictions.... you're getting into the realm of the 'fine line'....semantics. both provincial and federal laws work hand in hand....one governing, the other.
true, bc is self governed and manages its provincial land, but when funding is needed or any major changes needs to be made, its up to the federal government to have last say.
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Define "family". ::)
Classified Waters tag for sockeye flossers only = DISCRIMINATION :o
Why does hook size need to be a factor? Once again blatant discrimination against BBers. ::)
Same thing with leader length. ::)
The above reasons should point out why policy makers should, if possible, have an open mind. Unfortunately, this is hardly ever the case.
** I also do not agree with flossing. I am just posting this to show the blatant disregard to flossers and showing what a narrow mindset can do with policy. I would assume guys like Dr SG or DK would like the policies, but would you want such narrow minded people as directors on any type of council that represents the public's interests? I am also willing to bet that Fulc is an anti-flosser. ;) ;)
Shane
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Human Rights infringements????? :o
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(self clicking and avoiding hijacking)
meaning that one is assumed innocent, until proven guilty. with photo radar, one is already assumed guilty without the benefit of trial or counsel. :o
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Well we all know how fair the justice system is? Delay obfuscate, lie and if by some chance you do actually get convicted you get a conditional discharge. I actually find the summary justice of photo radar to be quite fair. The complaints were always from people who seemed to think the speed limit is for other people, or were afraid their wife would find out they had been somehwere they were not supposed to be. Quit your whining and pay the fine.
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Well we all know how fair the justice system is? Delay obfuscate, lie and if by some chance you do actually get convicted you get a conditional discharge. I actually find the summary justice of photo radar to be quite fair. The complaints were always from people who seemed to think the speed limit is for other people, or were afraid their wife would find out they had been somehwere they were not supposed to be. Quit your whining and pay the fine.
you're right. do the crime. do the time. you're absolutely right. but unfortunately, like you said. our judicial system is flawed, if not obscure.
Your analogy of the complaints made by the public, is presumptuous and totally slanderous. its because of attitudes like yours, that the world even need lawyers.
how many times have we seen people (on the news) get put in jail for a crime they didn't commit? usually convicted because of false accusations or mistakened identities? What do you say to those people?
Photo Radar falls into that category. But then again you probably don't give a **** because you're a perfect citizen that don't believe in 'true' justice.
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i disagree
governments get far to much of our hard earned money already
not one level of government spends this money responsibily and you want to give them more
remember the gun registry
yeah lets see if they can do a fisher registry any cheaper
maybe we can hire new brunswick to run it
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sorry. i didn't mean to hijack this thread. :-\