Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mabelingwane on August 09, 2004, 07:56:20 AM
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I don’t know if any of you saw the documentary yesterday on global (11) regarding the sea lice effect on wild Salmon population up in an area close to knights inlet and Broughton Inlet. I unfortunately did not get any details on scientists names etc, but what I did realise that there is a huge issue up there with the effects of the salmon farming.
The basic highlights of the documentary is the scientist is doing research on the effects of salmon farming on the wild salmon population. There were fingerlings caught that are not even 6 inches long, but they had aprox. 63 lice on them. The mortality rate of these fish is high, and in the beginning of the research, the morality rate was estimated at around 80%, at the end of the day, when the salmon arrived the following year, there was a mortality rate of over 90%. So this is how the research started..
She was researching Orca Wales, and when they stopped entering the area, she found that the salmon farms were using sound devices that would stop them from coming close to the pen’s. She then did studies on the salmon and noticed that the fish that had passed the salmon farm were riddled with lice, and the fish that had not reached the farm were ok, with a average of only 3 lice per fish, instead of the average 63 on the fish that had passed the farm.
As usual they had the farm guys pleading there case, saying that the farmed fish get there lice from the wild stock, etc, etc….. sounded like a bunch on bogus to me.
The effect on the environment is huge. They showed how the bears are waiting in the rivers for the salmon to return….. But nothing……..
I have found some articles on the web , and it seems like these guys need our support as sport fisherman.
Something to take note of....
There was a 98% decline (from five million) in the number of fish returning to eight rivers geographically linked in the marine environment, but isolated in freshwater. This decline was "hugely significant" and epicentered over the Broughton Archipelago. There has been no equivalent decline since DFO began record keeping in 1953.
http://naturalscience.com/ns/cover/cover17.html (http://naturalscience.com/ns/cover/cover17.html)
http://www.salmonfarmers.org/media/05_12_04.htm (http://www.salmonfarmers.org/media/05_12_04.htm)
http://www-sci.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/mehsd/sea_lice/2004/2004_intro_e.htm (http://www-sci.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/mehsd/sea_lice/2004/2004_intro_e.htm)
http://www.sfu.ca/cstudies/science/salmon.htm (http://www.sfu.ca/cstudies/science/salmon.htm)
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I stopped eating farmed salmon and steelhead some time ago, not because of the environmental concerns, but because it so often has "color added" or it is so fat that it catches fire on the BBQ. Your post is another good reason to stick to non-farmed fish. Thanks for the information; I'll pass it on to my friends.
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I don't eat farmed either. I always ask if it is farmed. I'm always amazed at the lack of knowlegde from the server(s). I was told once that the salmon was wild. When it came to the table, I could tell it was farmed. 1/16" of fat between each layer of meat. In wild fish, the fat is paper thin. I sent it back >:(
Our government(s) need to get off their backsides on this issue >:(
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Ok, now I get it. I was reading flyers for Safeway and it said WILD Salmon, I wondered what that meant. It's all so clear to me now.
RobertO
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One concern that I have is they compared this environment disaster to one of similar magnitude in Norway a couple of years back……The end result is that the Norwegians now fish in Canada because they have whipped out there salmon stock, both wild and farmed. They have nothing left, because the warning signs were not taken note of.
My concern is that , unless this situation is managed very well, then we stand to loose a fishery.
I also understand that there is very little that we as individuals can do. I just thought it would be good for us to know what is happening. It was a real eye opener seeing the program. If you want I am sure that Global will send you a copy to view.
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Saw the documentary a while back. Certainly was an eye opener.
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I don't eat farmed either. I always ask if it is farmed. I'm always amazed at the lack of knowlegde from the server(s). I was told once that the salmon was wild. When it came to the table, I could tell it was farmed. 1/16" of fat between each layer of meat. In wild fish, the fat is paper thin. I sent it back >:(
Our government(s) need to get off their backsides on this issue >:(
yo Grumman.... I too once sent back a "wild" salmon that was waaaay too fatty and pink. the server kept insisting that it was wild salmon. then the manager got involved and got on my case for wasting a salmon. turned into a big scene, i shut the entire restuarant up when i called their food supplier and was told that the salmon that CINCIN (on robson) buys is farmed atlantic salmon.
same thing occurs on granville island market. not one salmon there is "wild" despite what the signs say. i got asked to leave the market by security because i was having a heated debate with a vendor about the false advertising........
B********
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Don't we have some sort of regulators for this? CFIA? Can't we report this as fraud? I dunno. False advertising? What if a vendor sold you horse meat instead of beef? I think CFIA might be a place to start.
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Don't we have some sort of regulators for this? CFIA? Can't we report this as fraud? I dunno. False advertising? What if a vendor sold you horse meat instead of beef? I think CFIA might be a place to start.
DFO, but they're busy going after some old guy that I reported for taking a foul hooked fish ;D
RobertO
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DFO, but they're busy going after some old guy that I reported for taking a foul hooked fish ;D
ROTFLMAO......I too, was looking for a link back into that one ::)
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who knows anymore...........but to throw more fuel on the fire....i actually think that if salmon was farmed on LAND, in very secure pens, with the waste/waste water being pumped out into drying ponds and then tilled into the soil, salmon farming would work as a food supply. but they gotta stop pumping them full of pink/orange dye #7, antibiotics and whatever else those fish are eating. ie: make them less "fatty" and more natural coloring. then i would not send back my 25 $$$ plate of grilled salmon.
as for the market...........who knows............... >:(
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Can anyone show me pictures of how to tell the difference between wild and farmed salmon? I would love the ability to tell the difference.
RobertO
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The farmed fish have little plow marks from when the field is tilled.
Wild fish won't do any tricks, nor can you get them to eat from your hand.
Too tempting. :P
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yo Birdnester:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=96
or this one:
http://chef2chef.net/news/foodservice/Press_Releases-Associations/Contaminants_Farmed_vs_Wild_Salmon.htm
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The farmed fish have little plow marks from when the field is tilled.
Wild fish won't do any tricks, nor can you get them to eat from your hand.
Too tempting. :P
Hahahah.
RobertO
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Although many may think aquaculture may take away commercial pressure on the wild fish stock to achieve sustainability, that is not necessary the case. Think of this scenario.
Unlike the Asianic world, most of the western farmed fish are carnivorous species like salmon and steelhead. Carnivorous species has a higher trophic value (top of the food chain). To ensure the operation is profitable, you decrease the growth time to reach the optimal harvest size. This means, lots and lots of food. Where does this food come from? From the wild of course. The demand of food eventually drains out the wild stock's prey population. This can possibly pose as a bigger negative impact than a properly managed commercial harvest. On top of that, biological pollution poses a threat to the wild.
Hard to sum up such a big topic in a small paragraph. If anyone wants to find out more, I can send you the references.
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Nester, look at the "white" between the "pink". A wild fish has VERY little fat. A farmed fish has a thick white line (fat) between every strip of muscle (pink). Wild fish have almost no fat.
Farned fish - 1/32"-1/16" of white or fat.
Wild Fish - Inperceptable - 1/64" of fat.
Easiest way to tell.
It's a little like looking at the pics of ThickRick campared to me. He's wild and I'm farmed ;D
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That too, but I think herring and other baitfish are also used. I'll have to look it up in the journals again to get back to you on that one.
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THanks for the info Otto. Here's a question, with today's technologies, how hard would it be to emulate a real environment to farm the fish in?
RobertO
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thats not really the question though Roberto, the main issue seems to be the un or self regulated aquaculturalists laying wast to the nearby ocean and flooding the migrating juvinile salmon with sea lice.And to do it on shore is just too costly though i think its being done on a small scale on the island and being sold at a higher price but people seem to be willing to pay :D Always ask if its wild or farmed, there was a web site that listed outlets that do/ dont sell farmed somewere.Or catch it yourself ;D
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Ecologically sounding, for sure. But economically.... possibly. A closed system would be pricy, maybe they can incorporate daily farm tours for tourists into it. :)
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Ahh ok, the ole Environmental Cost vs. Monetary Cost issue. I see now.
RobertO
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seeing as the fish farms pay divers a commercial rate to dive and fix the nets, i think that if the pens were on land they would save a freeking fortune in diver costs. an old coworker works on a farm up north and gets a ridiculous wage just to shoot the seals that hover around the pens.
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I say give it ten years, with all the greed and pressure on the wild stocks the pacific coast will go the way of the Atlantic and we'll all be eating farmed fish. And I'll bet FN will change their tune about farmed salmon and will want a peice of the action just like all the natural resources in Canada.
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The farmed fish have little plow marks from when the field is tilled.
Wild fish won't do any tricks, nor can you get them to eat from your hand.
Too tempting. :P
;D ;D ;D
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And to top it off - folks should also realize that most farmed salmon are Atlantic. Of course, the name implies that they are not even native to the Pacific waters.
Good point.
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Sea-lice are the social disease (maybe AIDS is a better word) of the fish farm industery. We are told lie after lie by both level of government and the fish farmers regarding these paracites. Normally these little bugs fall of Salmon and die when Salmon retyurn to fresh water. With fish farms these bugs have a constant supply of host fish which allows populations to explode year round. The result is clouds of sea-lice that smolts must swim through on their way out to sea. Most don't make it, since fish can only tolarate three sea-lice per gram of weight. In short many if not most of our Salmon and Steelhead are being bled-out before they make it passed the fish farms in the estuaries.
I have long maintained that most of our missing Steelhead have fallen prey to sea-lice. The Summer Steelhead I caught last week proved it, baring scares from sea-lice preditation.
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heres a thought. last year, most of my fish had sea lice on them. actually i think almost all of them did. This year, i havent. does that mean that only the ones that are not being infested with sealice are making it up? maybe the ones without, are the only ones smart enough to not end up in fn nets! ;Da but seriously, anyone else notice that there are less sealice this year?
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Last year I caught six Chum on the Stave with gills full of sea-lice. I mean they had gills littery crawling with lice. I have seen lice on the back end of fish many times, but nothing like I saw in the gills of those poor fish. I mentioned it to the DFO hatchery staff netting broods, and they told me that was normal. BUll$%^&.
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It could also be the fish that have been in the fresh water for a while. As I understand, the lice fall off after a few days in the fresh.
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The Sea Lice are to the fish like the Government is to us.
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Have discussed this "issue" with two MLA's and get nothing in return except crappy government spin. This is a $ issue for government which means farmed salmon are "in" and screw the "wild." My last remark to the two individuals was:
"the present method of raising farmed salmon is a disaster waiting to happen and I will hold you two personally responsible."
I did not receive a response to my remark. ;D
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the scary thing is the signes are there that the fishery is in serious need of attention, and yet it carries on the way it is. it will be a sad day when the population of all salmon species are on the endangered species listing.