Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: MetalAndFeathers on October 25, 2017, 05:08:45 PM
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Was wondering why there is no retention for hatchery steelhead on the capilano? There are smaller systems around with probably less fish that still allow retention for hatchery steelhead. I doubt there is much spawning habitat on the river so they are mainly hatchery fish (which are usually meant to provide meat for anglers?) . Not only that but there is a bait ban to protect hatchery steelhead ??? ??? ???
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The stock is at critical low levels and there is no surplus for retention. Summer runs being in the worse shape.
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The stock is at critical low levels and there is no surplus for retention. Summer runs being in the worse shape.
Odd. The allouette is mainly hatchery and it is no where near as big as the Cap yet there are better returns/retention. Is there a comfirmed reason why Cap stocks are down?
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Something to do with that big chunk of concrete just above the hatchery...... ;D
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As does the South Allouette!........ ;D
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Lots more available habitat below the Alouette dam as well rearing/spawning as well. Capilano appears to have lost most of its decent gravel as there is no recruitment when the river blows it out and it goes wall-to-wall raging water.
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The Alouette has a reasonable # of wild fish, at least judging by what I catch. There is good habitat above the hatchery. That area is also closed providing refugia for both spawning and rearing wild fish. It also has a 2 month spring time closure. Lastly there has been some substantial habitat restoration done. The Cap (which I don't fish) has none of these, plus it gets punishing pressure both in the river and at the estuary and surrounds.
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Lots more available habitat below the Alouette dam as well rearing/spawning as well. Capilano appears to have lost most of its decent gravel as there is no recruitment when the river blows it out and it goes wall-to-wall raging water.
Hey, hey , hey - Gold Hammered Croc - pinch your barb. :o
Sorry - off topic but your head shot has the barb up. ;D
The hatchery fish are for the FN taking. Probably some backdoor deal where FN allows some land access but the Hatchery program must be maintained to ensure Salmon returns. Probably another stretch by me. I'm not saying this to be negative in any way but it's what I strongly suspect.
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Allouette dose not have the best habitat. BC hydro floods it every spring sending salmons smolts on to peoples lawns. Its plagues by farm and fertilizer pollution. Sockeye (beach spawning) and Chinook (gold creek spawning) can't make it to there native spawning habitat because of the hydro dam.
To date this year at the fish fence 1 Chinook, 1 coho and no sockeye have been seen. Coho tend to wait for high water events and go over the fence tho.
That being said The Cap is likely closed for the same reason why rock fish will never be open around Vancouver. Fishing pressure
They do have a fair number of chum that return it's limited to 1 per day as it's a mainly a volunteer hatchery with the purpose of providing food to the forest and animals. Kanaka Creek hatchery is basically the same thing but they have closed Kanaka for chum.
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No chum retention on the Cap.
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No chum retention on the Cap.
And for some strange reason those are the only fish that I seem to catch on the Cap :o
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Allouette dose not have the best habitat. BC hydro floods it every spring sending salmons smolts on to peoples lawns.
the spring water releases are a recent event - just started in the last few years - in an attempt to flush young kokanee over the dam as similar releases due to natural run off have seen small numbers of sockeye come back. There is little or no farming above Neaves Road though there are development issues above that however good habitat above 232St at Maple Ridge Park. Adult salmon have been blocked by the dam since about 1930. Like all local rivers it is subject to periodic high water flows. I have read a number of habitat reviews of the Alouette and most consider it has good habitat with moderate productivity - which means better than most local streams and certainly better than the Cap. The upper section above the hatchery is basically undeveloped and I have walked along sections of it. Prior to mid-70s the Alouette produced well over 1,000 wild steelhead per year on average.
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Very interesting. Thanks guys
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There are no Regs on the Capilano, you can use barbs, trebles and roe any time you want; apparently. At least 50% or more of the anglers I see down there are currently and have been using roe. :( >:(
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Sad but true. I was fishing the other day and a father/son duo turned up and started using roe. I said 'you know there a bait ban, right?' The kid just said yeah, so I said it to the father who said he was status so he was good. Whatever...
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The people who use it know there is a bait ban. They also probably know COs wont bother going down the canyon to ticket them.
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That falls under the steveston office territory, They have the chum fishery to manage right now, commercial crabbers, all the ocean from white rock to sechelt (east side of the straight). They have like 6 officers how often do u expect to see them?
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Never have I ever seen a CO, even amongst the most egregious scenes of violation. I really think that they could pay their salaries multifold by simply going to the common fishing spots and taking in fines hand over fist.
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I'd be more worried about the 15 guys ripping hooks into Chinook bellies at the cable pool, than I would about a few people using bait.
If they want to protect the few summer run steelhead, close the cable pool to fishing..
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Fines, seized equipment, seized fish go into general revenue and have no part in DFO annual budget. DFO budget is determined by politicians in Ottawa. Best thing to do is report it to DFO, then write a letter to the fishery’s minister and demand to see more officers.
If you can video tape it and YouTube it and send it to a news agency. During the Fraser River fish wars in the late 90 that the news got involed in.DFO Conservation and protection received a nice budget increase locally.
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Its hard to say because I am not on the river every day, but the guys getting busted probably wouldn't let the forum know about their encounter... :P
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Perhaps guys are super frustrated by the harvest techniques demonstrated by F.N.
Weirs...
Shopping carts...
The Coast Salish Fly...
All sanctioned and approved by DFO.
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Perhaps guys are super frustrated by the harvest techniques demonstrated by F.N.
Weirs...
Shopping carts...
The Coast Salish Fly...
All sanctioned and approved by DFO.
Great first post. FN are harvesting fish as is their right guaranteed by parliament. They should use the most effective methods.
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As far as I am concerned as long as you hike into the canyon far out of the way of where anyone will find you, if some salmon eggs find their way onto my hook and into a hatchery Coho mouth, and then the fish flaps into the rocks and bleeds to death, I'll take it.. Seems that 9 out of 10 guys on that river have snagging, or flossing on mind anyway.
::)
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As far as I am concerned as long as you hike into the canyon far out of the way of where anyone will find you, if some salmon eggs find their way onto my hook and into a hatchery Coho mouth, and then the fish flaps into the rocks and bleeds to death, I'll take it.. Seems that 9 out of 10 guys on that river have snagging, or flossing on mind anyway.
:o and if that roe finds its way into a wild mouth I assume the outcome of the fish would be no different than if it was a hatchery. You’ve hiked far enough away from people that the rules don’t apply to you... congratulations. Your no different than the guys poaching with treble hooks at night and you justify it cause “9 out of 10 guys” bla bla bla b.s . I fish in remote spots... I fish as per the rules...bait ban...that’s fine I catch just as many on hardware. Catch and release only river...I’m fine with that also. I do this because of one big thing.. ETHICS!! & the thought that maybe one day when my kids grow up there will be fish left and we can enjoy the sport together. Canyon poachers...tired of you guys... I hike in to get away from ppl and fish in peace...others just want to get away from people so they can poach with no remorse... 8)
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damn, this has turned into a very sad thread (why am I still surprised by this....)
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I have always thought that they should just net the rivers that people call food hatcherys and just hand out the fish to people that come there for the meat.
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Uh, never good to assume anything! I would rather stick to the rules to avoid fines and hopefully help the fish survive for the future. Though the Cap is a hatchery kill river mostly.. without that hatchery there wouldn't be any fish :P. Still I leave the wild ones alone. I'd say the guys ripping trebles are a lot worse than me.. I arrive most mornings to find tons of fish guts and fresh roe skins everywhere on the ground/ in the water. I've gone to the highway bridge pool to smoke weed and have a beer in the middle of the night with friends and watch people rape the pool with fist size barbed trebles.. they get a lot of big Chinook.
Anyway. I catch and release and use hardware/fly too. Of all the rivers though the Cap shouldn't have a bait ban, that river is a big joke! Ethics don't exactly apply to this in my opinion as who is to say if it is the right or wrong thing to do? The DFO? Look at the rest of the river, it's an absolute debauchery, and they do nothing to stop it! Is using roe in the canyon against the DFO rules on a complete kill/meat river that is damned off and 100% relies on the hatchery for any fish to return really so bad? Ethically? I think it's honestly debatable! Though probably not the best place to advertise, but, f it!
Why would anyone hike into the canyon to poach when they do it all day and night at the easy access pools?? Lol.. just because I've broken the rules before doesn't mean I'm a poacher. Besides.. as you mentioned you can get just as many if not more in hardware or flies if you know how to use them... and less mess!
I apologize for my comments insinuating that your poaching. I agree with everything you said...there is a lot of questionable fishing methods on the cap. Using roe isn’t the worst thing you can do and the fish still gotta bite. I woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning....had it been an hour later and a coffee I wouldn’t have replied being such a jerk. :-X
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I dunno. I admit I feel a bit of frustration when I see people not sticking to the regs. Regs are hard lines while 'ethics' are a blurry morass of opinions which will change from person to person.
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^ X2
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:o and if that roe finds its way into a wild mouth I assume the outcome of the fish would be no different than if it was a hatchery. You’ve hiked far enough away from people that the rules don’t apply to you... congratulations. Your no different than the guys poaching with treble hooks at night and you justify it cause “9 out of 10 guys” bla bla bla b.s . I fish in remote spots... I fish as per the rules...bait ban...that’s fine I catch just as many on hardware. Catch and release only river...I’m fine with that also. I do this because of one big thing.. ETHICS!! & the thought that maybe one day when my kids grow up there will be fish left and we can enjoy the sport together. Canyon poachers...tired of you guys... I hike in to get away from ppl and fish in peace...others just want to get away from people so they can poach with no remorse... 8)
I hate to break it to you. But people using bait in the capilano canyon won’t have any effect on whether there will be any fish in the capilano for future generations. Government funding to the hatchery is what will change it for better or worse
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I hate to break it to you. But people using bait in the capilano canyon won’t have any effect on whether there will be any fish in the capilano for future generations. Government funding to the hatchery is what will change it for better or worse
You're right 'bout the Coho but wrong...To my knowledge the bait ban exists to protect the very small population of wild STEELHEAD during a month the river is intensely fished for HATCHERY COHO. This is a satisfactory solution in my opinion because you must consider anglers of all experience levels...some who may not be able to identify or safely release a sub-20 inch Steelie etc.
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There’s no such thing as wild anything on the capilano. The dam cut off all the spawning habitat. Sure there is unclipped fish but without the hatchery they wouldn’t exist
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there is spawning habitat about the reservoir. The problem is there isn't a decent fishway and trucking fish above has never worked.
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What halcyonguitars said.
If you are fishing against the regulations, you're poaching. I don't care if using bait during the bait ban period is "better" than intentionally snagging, you're poaching, don't even try to justify it.
Don't agree with the regulations, go get them changed.
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There’s no such thing as wild anything on the capilano. The dam cut off all the spawning habitat. Sure there is unclipped fish but without the hatchery they wouldn’t exist
that hatchery had it's first salmon return in the mid-70s. The dam was completed 1954 so there was 20+ years between the dam and the first production from the hatchery yet there were salmon in the Capilano between. Salmon and steelhead that would have once gone above where the dam was were trapped at the dam base and trucked above the reservoir and released where some spawned and some of their progeny made it downstream to the ocean.
If the dam & reservoir system had been built with salmon migration as a consideration that approach may have worked better than it did.
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What halcyonguitars said.
If you are fishing against the regulations, you're poaching. I don't care if using bait during the bait ban period is "better" than intentionally snagging, you're poaching, don't even try to justify it.
Don't agree with the regulations, go get them changed.
X2!
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I like my eggs poached
You should definitely check out the Stave then :D