Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: bigrig on March 31, 2017, 07:22:48 PM

Title: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: bigrig on March 31, 2017, 07:22:48 PM
I'm posting for a friend.While fishing up near Tamihi today,suddenly a few motor boats come barreling up river and beach themselves opposite the River Sanctuary B+B.Maybe it's legal but just wondering what others think about it.There was a local guide in a pontoon with a client and I wonder what his thoughts were trying to get his customer into a fish.Definitely a shocker but I guess it's one of those because they can type deals!
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Taboo on March 31, 2017, 07:34:08 PM
Was on the river today and saw 2 jet boats roaring down...no fishing gear in sight, looked like they were just out to tear it up.  Also saw a pair of very over sized pontoon boats with oars.  These folks were doing a pontoon version of the dory boats you see in Washington state all the time.  This is the first time in 20 years on the river I saw anything other than a river rafter!  Maybe I live a sheltered life.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: troutbreath on March 31, 2017, 08:53:36 PM
It was probably Chris and Rod.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Rieber on March 31, 2017, 09:19:05 PM
I'm posting for a friend.While fishing up near Tamihi today,suddenly a few motor boats come barreling up river and beach themselves opposite the River Sanctuary B+B.Maybe it's legal but just wondering what others think about it.There was a local guide in a pontoon with a client and I wonder what his thoughts were trying to get his customer into a fish.Definitely a shocker but I guess it's one of those because they can type deals!

Sad to think that there will have to be a fatal accident caused by a jet boat operator on such a small multi-user type river, before power boats are banned from the canal up to the lake.

Until then, all users have to expect the unexpected.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: psd1179 on March 31, 2017, 09:20:34 PM
 
I saw the rafter boat drifting by a young couple all the time. They chucked spey line in most of the runs. But haven't seen they land fish.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Rieber on March 31, 2017, 09:32:23 PM

I saw the rafter boat drifting by a young couple all the time. They chucked spey line in most of the runs. But haven't seen they land fish.

A drifter is okay in my opinion as they are really only a danger to themselves - and that's okay as they are aware of the risks.

I hated when I finally got to my fishing hole and the rafters or kayaks or pontooners came dowe. They just go right over your hole  they don't care. I just smile, shake my head and mutter obscenities in my head - even give them a friendly wave. Even though I know that often moves the fish enough to get them into the biting mood but still, I have hard feelings when they go by. I know it's tough beans to me and that I have to share my river but I've been able to cope with this by me avoiding going to the river.  ::)
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: skitterbug on March 31, 2017, 10:04:43 PM
A drifter is okay in my opinion as they are really only a danger to themselves - and that's okay as they are aware of the risks.

I hated when I finally got to my fishing hole and the rafters or kayaks or pontooners came dowe. They just go right over your hole  they don't care. I just smile, shake my head and mutter obscenities in my head - even give them a friendly wave. Even though I know that often moves the fish enough to get them into the biting mood but still, I have hard feelings when they go by. I know it's tough beans to me and that I have to share my river but I've been able to cope with this by me avoiding going to the river.  ::)

Sorry to hear about that. When I drift rivers,​ I'm on the opposite side of the river from the Angler and try to disturb the water as little as possible.

I think part of the problem is, most are going down by the seat of their pants. They're probably in survival mode and have none to very little river reading skills, so it might not be intentional, but it is the Wack so who knows.

I've heard​ two people have flipped their boats on the lower Chilliwack this year, one was a guided trip. That scary, because if you know what you're doing there's NO WAY you should be flipping on the lower section!

Other than the Fraser, I don't think jet boats and similar boats should be allowed on rivers. If they are, they should only travel downstream only so they can see other user. I've seen some close calls on the Thompson with kayakers and seadoo's and jet-boaters. It only a matter of time before there's a fatality.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: banx on April 01, 2017, 08:43:27 AM
the vedder deserves its own reality show
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: chris gadsden on April 01, 2017, 10:47:24 AM
Jet boats have been on the Vedder for a few years now and some mishaps have happened, running up onto gravel bars etc..
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: chris gadsden on April 01, 2017, 10:51:36 AM
Filmed this boat a few years ago on the Vedder. https://youtu.be/on4B-YC1R7o
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Fitzz on April 01, 2017, 10:56:44 AM
The topic isn't really about the drift boats. But I do understand some people's questions regarding this . The real question is jet boats ripping up the river at a high speed not knowing what or who is around the corner .. Easily could of hit a fisherman crossing the river or a fly fisherman standing in the river  or even a guide floating down the river. I personally witnessed it and they are not just out for a cruise. At one point the decided to do a donut in a pool where a fellow was drift fishing in a pool all by himself. I personally think it's ridiculous that they allow this to happen on the Vedder river . We should start a petition saying no power boats past the highway bridge . I think there is a time and place for boats and the Vedder is not the place .
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Blackrt03 on April 01, 2017, 11:08:29 AM
Saw those two a#%#holes heading up river disturbing the water....no courteous at all. IMO there should be no motor boats at all on the Vedder.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: bigrig on April 01, 2017, 11:25:32 AM
Here are a few pics I'm talking about

http://s1208.photobucket.com/user/billchiv/media/IMG_5770_zpsz4fnxcrc.png.html?o=0 http://s1208.photobucket.com/user/billchiv/media/IMG_5769_zpsub6d0z5u.png.html?o=1
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: wildmanyeah on April 01, 2017, 11:32:49 AM

Was fishing the CHEHALIS RIVER, bush whacked, cut a trail, replied down by rope in the canyon. was letting my hole rest drifters came down took a cast caught one a destroyed my hole.

we all feel the pain

next day went to the store to look at drift boats
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Dryfly22 on April 01, 2017, 12:12:57 PM
I also witnessed the two Jet sleds roaring up the river at full throttle.  They had total disregard for the fishermen on the river.  In fact I was sitting back Osborne pool getting ready to fish it.  They came roaring up into the pool doing doughnuts kicking up rooster tails, then proceeded up and around the island and back down to the pool.  A fisherman across the river had a chat with them and expressed his displeasure.  As they left one of the jet sledders roared over towards the water he was fishing did a doughnut and as he sped off threw up his hand at the fisherman.  Basically flipping him the bird without putting up the finger.
While there is no law against power boats on the Vedder river the total disregard for others on the water was disgusting, and looked to me to be deliberate.  I also agree that there should be no power boats on the Vedder.  The people drifting and kayaking the river that I have seen, and I have seen many, have always been respectful of the fishermen.  This post is in no way about them.
The Vedder river should not be about that kind of thing.  It could have just as well happen at any time of the year like October when the river is full of fish returning to spawn.  These jet sleds were running up in inches of water in places at full throttle.
I also support a ban on power boats above the highway bridge.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: clarki on April 01, 2017, 01:55:44 PM
On a mid-July Saturday in 2015, I was around Lickman Road flyfishing for trout when a jet boat came upstream and came back down around 20 minutes later. It went as far as the crossing, I was later told.

If you remember July 2015, we were in the middle of a very dry summer and the Vedder was running real low. Although totally legal, it did seem a tad irresponsible to travel a small'ish river that was impacted by drought conditions, on a summer weekend afternoon, when lots of folks were out enjoying the river on inflatables.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Dave on April 01, 2017, 03:14:37 PM
My wife and I spend the summer months in our 5th wheel on the lower Vedder ... we have watched the same 2 morons jetting the river, despite probably over 100 tubers using the same area, for the past 2 years.   The disruption to nesting geese and ducks, herons, picnicker's with their kids, and anglers, is huge. I would also think fish populations are impacted as well. I totally agree, this system should off limits to power craft.

Just not sure how to get the legislation started.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: wildmanyeah on April 01, 2017, 05:20:06 PM
a speed limit maybe be easier to get then a ban, I would like to see a ban imposed. I remeber before jet boats were popular on the fraser there were sections that only a few went through that new the channel.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Dryfly22 on April 01, 2017, 05:46:52 PM
I think that a regulation preventing power boats up the vedder river like I saw Friday has never been imposed because in the past boats weren't capable of doing what they can do today. Today's jet boats and the jet sleds can go places a boat never used to be able to years ago.  With no actual law in place what is prevent them from running all over the Redds and causing an incredible amount of damage to fish habitat? Something really should be done to protect the fish from these kind of irresponsible actions.   
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: TheChumWhisperer on April 01, 2017, 06:32:42 PM
Am I the only person who is jealous of those two in the jet boats.  That looked like an awesome time, so much fun.



Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Fitzz on April 01, 2017, 06:45:17 PM
It's not about having fun I wouldn't want to try and stop someone from enjoying themselves. It's about the time and place for it and the danger to others as well as the damage it does to the river system. The Vedder is a special river and we are very fortunate to have this in our back yard producing fish let's not turn it into a Jett boat destination. Ban all power boats my opinion.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: RalphH on April 01, 2017, 06:59:06 PM
My wife and I spend the summer months in our 5th wheel on the lower Vedder ... we have watched the same 2 morons jetting the river, despite probably over 100 tubers using the same area, for the past 2 years.   The disruption to nesting geese and ducks, herons, picnicker's with their kids, and anglers, is huge. I would also think fish populations are impacted as well. I totally agree, this system should off limits to power craft.

Just not sure how to get the legislation started.

Last time I was on the river a couple of guys went by in a custom boat the boat which look like a standard welded runabout has a cockpit cut in the front otherwise it's solid aluminum. They were wearing helmets. I have also seen you tube videos of the same 2 running their boat on the Vedder. Same guys?

I'd like to see power boats off the river above the Sumas.

Navigation is a Federal responsibility and I believe it's just a regulation change I guess. I believe there are safety issues given how much use by anglers , tubers and increasingly drift craft anglers there is. Contacting the Federal and Provincial Ministers is a start. Support from local governments is also required as I think most of the time they do look for a request from the local government.

I'd sign a petition for sure.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: redtide on April 01, 2017, 07:35:40 PM
contact Chilliwack municipal hall first and get them on board.....maybe bylaws would be enough. If not then a city endorsed complaint can be lodged by the city to the feds. With the spring freshet on the fraser already in progress expect the vedder canal to get a lot busier with these clowns..
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Blood_Orange on April 01, 2017, 07:39:07 PM
I'd sign a petition for sure.

Amen.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: chris gadsden on April 01, 2017, 07:59:37 PM
The Master was looking into this with the Fed's a few months ago and if I remember it is a complex matter getting this stopped, I will see him tomorrow and will ask him what they told him and report back.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: bigrig on April 01, 2017, 08:22:53 PM
Thank you Chris
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: kingpin on April 01, 2017, 08:27:23 PM
im guessing none of the people in this thread own a jet boat
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Dave on April 01, 2017, 09:16:12 PM
im guessing none of the people in this thread own a jet boat
I know several who do, but they stay off the Vedder.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Blood_Orange on April 01, 2017, 09:53:08 PM
I know several who do, but they stay off the Vedder.

They must be the yahoos I see running their jet boats on the Brunette...
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: SPEYMAN on April 01, 2017, 11:36:03 PM
There are many rivers in the province that restrict motorized vessels. They are shown as such in the B.C. Fishery Regulations. You may want to contact that department and get the information as to what would be required to stop motorized vessels on a body of water.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: chris gadsden on April 02, 2017, 12:40:02 PM
The Master was looking into this with the Fed's a few months ago and if I remember it is a complex matter getting this stopped, I will see him tomorrow and will ask him what they told him and report back.
Nick says it most likely comes down to dealing with the Ministry of Transport to make these changes. He has been told a real lot of hoops to go through to get it done.

Any one that wants to take it on maybe it would be good advice to talk to the local CO service as well as Fisheries Oceans to let them know of your concerns and seek their advice as well as maybe getting some ideas from them how to proceed. Maybe with the change in the Federal government a year ago there maybe could be some changes from when Nick talked to them.

Please keep us posted on how this goes if anyone here steps up. Might be worth to talk to the Chilliwack Progress if you are going to take this on for some media attention to this on going issue.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Dave on April 02, 2017, 05:50:48 PM
Well Chris, let's hope someone does take this on ... you (especially you!) and I have done our share, and continue to do so, for issues we believe in; time for younger blood to come forward to champion a ban on power craft above the Bailey bridge on the lower Vedder River.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: chris gadsden on April 02, 2017, 06:32:16 PM
Well Chris, let's hope someone does take this on ... you (especially you!) and I have done our share, and continue to do so, for issues we believe in; time for younger blood to come forward to champion a ban on power craft above the Bailey bridge on the lower Vedder River.
I hope so. In a lot of cases people do a lot of complaining but donot get proactive on such things. In our younger days we got involved in a lot of issue too many when we look back but now it takes a lot of energy to do what we did in the past.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: clarki on April 02, 2017, 10:06:59 PM
Governance of boating restrictions is primarily a federal responsibility; see the Vessel Operations Restrictions Regulations of the Canada Shipping Act. The Canada Shipping Act is administered by Transport Canada.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2008-120/FullText.html

So, the question is how to influence a change in the regulation.

My recommendation would be to consult with the MP for Chilliwack: Mark Strahl (other MP's may be able to assist but the river is not in their riding) . He should be able to provide guidance  with understanding and navigating the process of amending a federal regulation/statute.

Alternately I would suggest contact Transport Canada's Pacific Region Office http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/pacific/menu.htm. They should be able to provide similar guidance.

As others have mentioned, for this to get some traction you will need to have the support of a lot of stakeholders in order to influence Transport Canada to revise the regulation: federal (the local MP, Department of Fisheries and Oceans), provincial (Ministry of Forest, Lands and Natural Resources and/or Ministry of the Environment), the municipality of Chilliwack and NGOs. 
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: GordJ on April 03, 2017, 07:32:42 AM
Sure sounds like a lot of work for two or three boats a year. Maybe spend all that time and energy on a bigger issue?
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: bigrig on April 03, 2017, 08:12:48 AM
Thanks for all the good constructive advice offered.Maybe I will email our favourite mayor and see if she can help guide us with some of her expertise as well.Thanks again
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Dave on April 03, 2017, 05:46:26 PM
Thanks for all the good constructive advice offered.Maybe I will email our favourite mayor and see if she can help guide us with some of her expertise as well.Thanks again

I hope you do and please keep us up to speed on what the Mayor has to say about this.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: chris gadsden on April 03, 2017, 10:16:27 PM
Sure sounds like a lot of work for two or three boats a year. Maybe spend all that time and energy on a bigger issue?
In all respect it is a lot more than that and with all the increased usage the last few years and growing all the time there is a serious mishap just waiting to happen. Thanks bigrig for getting the ball rolling on this issue.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: armytruck on April 04, 2017, 10:05:03 AM
Sure sounds like a lot of work for two or three boats a year. Maybe spend all that time and energy on a bigger issue?
Yah , like maybe ,gravel extraction
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: cutthroat22 on April 04, 2017, 10:47:08 AM
An eyewitness account of a boat running over a painted turtle then smashing into a spotted owl would expedite the process.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: chris gadsden on April 04, 2017, 04:18:36 PM
Yah , like maybe ,gravel extraction
We are on that for the last few months, a meeting we had scheduled with all agencies for this week was just resheduled to after the election. I wonder why that happened? ::) :o :P
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: bigblue on April 04, 2017, 07:49:41 PM
A few weeks ago I saw a high powered jet boat fly up the lower Vedder and come back down a few hours later. They weren't fishing but just out for a joy ride. From the time it took for them to come back down, I speculate they went way up the river. Just tearing up the redds is just irresponsible IMO. Just because you own an ATV does not make it right to hot shot over sensitive environmental areas. This kind of mindless activity needs to be put to a STOP.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Dave on April 04, 2017, 08:39:54 PM
That is a daily occurrence during the summer; disrespectful to anglers, swimmers, tubers, people enjoying some solitude with their kids, birds, etc.  Last summer my wife and I watched a jet skier chase a mother merganser and her chicks ... sickening.  Scaring geese and their young happens daily.
What entitles people to do that???

My guess is shaming them on social media will have far quicker results than any government action. 
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Speyfitter on April 04, 2017, 08:51:25 PM
It says on page #5 of the regulations synopsis: http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/regulations/docs/1719/fishing_synopsis_2017-19_provincial.pdf
"Boating restrictions are adopted for either fisheries management or public safety reasons." 

So can they, with the stroke of a pen in the freshwater fishing regulations implement the following restriction, easily?:
"No powered boats... boat motors of all types (internal combustion, steam and electric) are prohibited on these waters."
Or is there greater forces at play here to take away the right to run your power boat on a navigable water way?

It also says at the bottom of page#5:
"Please note: most boating restrictions are the responsibility of Transport Canada Marine. They are published here as a courtesy to anglers but, due to space limitations, may not be complete.
For more information write to:
Transport Canada Marine Office of Boating Safety 700-800 Burrard St Vancouver BC V6Z 2J8"

The only reason I ask is I know about 4 +/- jet boats are sunk on the Upper Pitt River annually (from what I've been told by many sources), yet that river remains open to jet boat traffic still to this day. I don't know of *many* jet boat related accidents, yet, on the Chilliwack. And surely the guides would be PISSED if they would not be allowed to access the Upper Pitt via Jet boat any longer, so I'd imagine some politics are at play. So surely if this is a public safety issue then they would have closed jet boat access on the Upper Pitt long ago which would pave the way for the Chilliwack? And if it was a fisheries issue i.e. jet boats are churning up eggs/juveniles in a noteworthy fashion, would they not have to close jet boat traffic to all similar sized, and smaller rivers with salmonid populations?

I'm more of a drifter myself. Don't have any strong feelings either way, but just want to see some consistency here and not let feelings of some A-hole rip past me ruining "my" water get the best of me, because really, it's not "my" water. I'm just a guest on the river that day. 
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Speyfitter on April 04, 2017, 08:55:06 PM
Forgot to mention - a GoPro is a great tool to have.....just make sure it's on.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Carich980 on April 05, 2017, 12:27:05 PM
It was probably Chris and Rod.

 ;)
We were out of the boat and fishing when they went by. Then they went out the back channel. Didn't bother me but I could see the potential conflict for sure. If I saw or heard them coming I'd just get out of the way if I could if not I hope they would yield.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Speyfitter on April 05, 2017, 01:42:36 PM
Anyone offer jet boat navigation courses?
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Dogbreath on April 11, 2017, 07:49:33 PM
The naïveté is strong on this thread.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Dave on April 11, 2017, 07:55:57 PM
The naïveté is strong on this thread.
Please explain your comment ...
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Dogbreath on April 14, 2017, 01:40:27 PM
Please explain your comment ...
na·ive·té
ˌnäˌēvəˈtā,näˈēv(ə)ˌtā/
noun

lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment.



Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Dave on April 14, 2017, 01:43:48 PM
By the boaters or the ones commenting against them?
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: RalphH on April 14, 2017, 05:53:04 PM
If you think about what happened as some waters, particularly salmon and steelhead rivers had fly fishing and or no bait regulations put in place, anglers opposed to them organized and started to lobby MOE and DFO.

Much the same thing may happen with jet or power boat bans. Boat companies and dealers make serious money. Boat owners spend serious money as in 10s of thousands for a new boat designed to charge up white water streams 50 feet wide and 1 or 2 feet deep.  Though once a serious accident occurs public outrage may overwhelm any such organizations.

This is not the 1st thread on the topic and I can't help wonder if that motivates some boat operators to run the river when they might not otherwise do so.

Then there is the "I paid the big bucks to get the boat so I have the right to use it where and when I want!" I hear that all the time.

Money makes might & might makes right.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: Dave on April 14, 2017, 05:59:54 PM
Good post.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: dobrolub on April 14, 2017, 11:09:00 PM
Ban on the power boats on the Vedder will come sooner than one might think. There is no place for such a hazardous sport on a river that's becoming very popular for family recreational activities in the increasingly urbanized area.
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: norton on April 21, 2017, 10:14:07 PM
I was fishing the vedder about a month ago, when a jet boat roared by me at full throttle. Missed me by about 20 feet. No respect for anyone . Gave him the bird on his way back down. There should be no power boats above highway bridge
Title: Re: Boats way up top of the Vedder
Post by: flyrod on April 30, 2017, 11:21:46 PM
Think I saw a Submarine at the Slab!!!!