Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: chris gadsden on January 07, 2017, 05:58:23 PM
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http://www.macleans.ca/society/unmuzzled-government-scientists-ready-to-discuss-a-decade-of-work/
Comments by Alex on this.
"This is fabulous to see! I believe this scientist holds the key to bringing wild salmon back because she can read their immune systems and find out how and where we are hurting them. We can then change our behaviour, then ask the fish if we made it better for them and they can answer us. In this way, we can strategically get out of their way. However, as this article points out - when she found that the Fraser sockeye salmon were dying by the millions just before spawning from a virus that was epidemic in salmon farms, Canada muzzled her. I found her work buried in the .5 million Cohen Commission documents and read everything she released the commission. I was stunned we have have such a remarkable scientist, who could make such a difference to our world and we had never heard of her.
Now she is free to talk, but still no one is asking her what she found, note in the last sentence she talks about the virus I have been tracking for the past 5 years. I am so grateful for the persistence of this person, she is with DFO, but has not been bullied into silence. We need to make sure that she has the opportunity to speak about her work, because viruses are dangerous and ignoring them is sheer recklessness. Thank you Maclean's."
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Go have another nap Chris. She has had a year to report what you want to hear. She and her fellow researchers have nothing to report ... yet.
Almo knows this and her response, as usual, is embarrassing.
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"Suggested a viral infection was causing them to die off in large numbers" was what Dr. Miller said. The study couldn't definitively say that it was a virus or if it could cause disease.
Yes, this is fabulous to see because now many like Chris don't have to trust a filtered and edited version from Ms Morton which is misleading. Now the media can question the scientists directly. Morton in the above example shows how she was really no better than the government of the day who would stifle media interviews. Both were not interested with the public getting the facts.
The measures by the previous Harper Government wasn't so much muzzling but it was the numerous hoops and hurdles that a reporter had to go through in order to interview a scientist in the federal government. Requests had to be vetted by communications which took forever to be acted on. By the time the interview or response was provided it was either much too late or not very informative. So, in essence, it might as well be characterized as muzzling because the information wasn't really flowing.
Nowadays, as the articles states, it's much more streamlined and easier to set up these media interviews. Now Chris doesn't have to rely on Morton's interpretation. Talking about changing behaviour.... maybe this will change her behaviour on how she interprets results from scientists like Dr. Miller because after Cohen critics like Morton consistently misinterpreted or omitted key information from scientists like Miller. Maybe Morton can now "get out of the way" and let the facts come out instead of having information filtered through her.
No one is asking her? Well, I'm sure Morton owns a phone or has a computer with internet service so she could ask Dr. Miller directly. Miller talks about the virus Morton has been tracking? Lol. Morton subtly implies that she is part of mainstream science but she is anything but mainstream. Taking a cruise on a sail boat taking pictures and video and posting on social media is not mainstream science. It's called propaganda. Viruses can be dangerous, but so is misinformation and a misinformed public.
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--The muzzle is never really off... it may be less on. For the most part the Scientists will have the same managers thus no matter what government may portray the managers are by nature risk adverse. I doubt that any single study could difinitively prove even the simplest event.
--What I would like to see is if money is going to be made available to try and answer these important questions.
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--The muzzle is never really off... it may be less on. For the most part the Scientists will have the same managers thus no matter what government may portray the managers are by nature risk adverse. I doubt that any single study could difinitively prove even the simplest event.
--What I would like to see is if money is going to be made available to try and answer these important questions.
You raised a very good question Skaha.
Over to you Doc Morton. :)
http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/
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You raised a very good question Skaha.
Over to you Doc Morton. :)
http://fairquestions.typepad.com/rethink_campaigns/
Doesn't take you long to fall back on your fellow fish farmer Vivian. Chew on some ferns Bawb.
http://www.nationalobserver.com/2015/05/04/news/duffy-connected-charity-critic-lucrative-industry-cash
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Interesting post TB. Very political yet amidst it all there is not a blip that what Vivian has brought forward is incorrect. Like she states "fair questions". The politics of this changes nothing.
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Interesting post TB. Very political yet amidst it all there is not a blip that what Vivian has brought forward is incorrect. Like she states "fair questions". The politics of this changes nothing.
http://www.albertaoilmagazine.com/2016/10/opinion-time-energy-industry-ignore-vivian-krause/
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http://www.albertaoilmagazine.com/2016/10/opinion-time-energy-industry-ignore-vivian-krause/
Yup looks like some American interest groups do not like what Vivian has to say LOL. :)
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Yup looks like some American interest groups do not like what Vivian has to say LOL. :)
Weaving and bawbing on your posts.
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Weaving and bawbing on your posts.
How so TB? Do tell :)
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Chew on some ferns Bawb.
What flavour would you suggest TB? I like this one. :)
http://www.ehow.com/list_7624714_fiddlehead-ferns-edible.html
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What flavour would you suggest TB? I like this one. :)
http://www.ehow.com/list_7624714_fiddlehead-ferns-edible.html
Thanks for posting something interesting and edible as well for a change. I even learned which ferns were the best to eat.
http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/food/edibleplants/ostrichfern/
now if you actually posted a fishing report......
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Thanks for posting something interesting and edible as well for a change. I even learned which ferns were the best to eat.
http://www.wildwoodsurvival.com/survival/food/edibleplants/ostrichfern/
now if you actually posted a fishing report......
Well he has now posted on at least 2 topics, give him credit for that. ;D ;D
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What deserves credit and would be outstanding is if you two would answer a simple question :)
When has salmon farming harmed wild salmon on the coast of BC and Washington? Back to you.
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What deserves credit and would be outstanding is if you two would answer a simple question :)
When has salmon farming harmed wild salmon on the coast of BC and Washington? Back to you.
Would you care what we post about the "wicked" problem. Or just keep reading pro fish farm literature while on the potty? I don't really care to know.
http://environment.geog.ubc.ca/something-is-fishy-salmon-farming-on-the-b-c-coast/
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What deserves credit and would be outstanding is if you two would answer a simple question :)
When has salmon farming harmed wild salmon on the coast of BC and Washington? Back to you.
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Bob, Chris and troutbreath have sidestepped around this question many times .. I don't ever expect them to answer it because if they did so, truthfully, that would ruin their "argument".
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ok when have fish farms benefitted or in some way helped wild salmon.
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ok when have fish farms benefitted or in some way helped wild salmon.
"6. Properly located fish and shellfish farms can result in an increase in other marine species including economically important ones such as crabs, prawns, rockfish, salmon, and clams."
http://farmfreshsalmon.org/ten-reasons-need-salmon-farms
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ok when have fish farms benefitted or in some way helped wild salmon.
Nice deflection ;) Using that same analogy, how does raising ducks and geese in captivity benefit wild ducks and geese? Of course, it probably doesn’t, but I can’t see the practice being stopped anytime soon.
People like to eat fish so there are some who think farming salmon relieves fishing pressure on wild stocks.
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"6. Properly located fish and shellfish farms can result in an increase in other marine species including economically important ones such as crabs, prawns, rockfish, salmon, and clams."
http://farmfreshsalmon.org/ten-reasons-need-salmon-farms
Not t be found in Bawb's washroom but recently here in BC
Another well-recognized problem associated with shellfish culture is the contamination of shellfish with domestic sewage that contains human pathogenic bacteria and viruses, which causes diseases such as typhoid fever and hepatitis.
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6. Properly located fish and shellfish farms can result in an increase in other marine species including economically important ones such as crabs, prawns, rockfish, salmon, and clams.
8. Salmon farm employees are often available to assist outdoor enthusiasts such as kayakers should they need help while on the water in remote areas.
--That is so nice I feel all better now.
--I haven't been fishing on the coast for several years now. Last time I went was during the gold rush staking of areas for fish farms...many of which were not properly located. So I have to ask as I do not know... has the government cancelled the licenses of all the fish farms that were not properly located?
--I'm not against farming... in fact I would like to see more of it in the valley which is going to be flooded by the site C dam.
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ok when have fish farms benefitted or in some way helped wild salmon.
Well, killing and eating a wild salmon does not benefit that wild salmon. Killing and eating a farmed salmon instead of a wild salmon results in that wild salmon being alive, which in some very obvious way helps wild salmon.
Now how have fish farms directly harmed wild salmon?
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"6. Properly located fish and shellfish farms can result in an increase in other marine species including economically important ones such as crabs, prawns, rockfish, salmon, and clams."
http://farmfreshsalmon.org/ten-reasons-need-salmon-farms
http://www.news1130.com/2017/01/13/dozens-oyster-related-illnesses-reported-bc-norovirus-outbreak-reported/
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Salmon farms contribute to increase trout infestation with sea lice
-- Republic of Ireland REPUBLIC OF IRELAND
Wednesday, January 11, 2017, 23:20 (GMT + 9)
A recent research reveals that sea trout have significantly higher levels of sea lice infestation near salmon farms.
The study, entitled 'Aquaculture and environmental drivers of salmon lice infestation and body condition in sea trout' was authored by Dr. Samuel Shephard and Dr. Paddy Gargan of Inland Fisheries Ireland alongside Craig MacIntyre of the Argyll Fisheries Trust.
--Apparently the rest of the world is concerned... I guess it just doesn't happen here
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--Apperently the rest of the world is concurned... I guess it just doesn't happen here
Bingo!! glad someone finally gets it :D
ps spellcheck is your friend ..
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--I haven't been fishing on the coast for several years now. Last time I went was during the gold rush staking of areas for fish farms...many of which were not properly located. So I have to ask as I do not know... has the government cancelled the licenses of all the fish farms that were not properly located?
So I have to ask....do you know what constitutes as a properly located fish farm - technically speaking?
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So I have to ask....do you know what constitutes as a properly located fish farm - technically speaking?
--I was making reference to the article which gave 10 feel good reasons for fish farms. The article indicated that "properly located fish farms can result in an increase in other species including economically important ones.... etc."
--There is no way to not agree with such a statement that some beneficial things may happen if everything goes right. Given that the government did not approve 100% of areas staked out and applied for may tend to indicate that some of the areas selected were not suitable... thus not properly located.
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--I was making reference to the article which gave 10 feel good reasons for fish farms. The article indicated that "properly located fish farms can result in an increase in other species including economically important ones.... etc."
--There is no way to not agree with such a statement that some beneficial things may happen if everything goes right. Given that the government did not approve 100% of areas staked out and applied for may tend to indicate that some of the areas selected were not suitable... thus not properly located.
So, you don't know what constitutes as a properly sited fish farm (technically speaking), but was merely making reference to the article which Bob had linked to which you disagreed with based on your experience fishing in the area?
The fact is that the BC government is responsible for the licensing and issuing of tenures where aquaculture takes place on Crown Land. Are you implying that the fish farms currently operating off the coast of BC are not approved by the province?
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So, you don't know what constitutes as a properly sited fish farm (technically speaking), but was merely making reference to the article which Bob had linked to which you disagreed with based on your experience fishing in the area?
The fact is that the BC government is responsible for the licensing and issuing of tenures where aquaculture takes place on Crown Land. Are you implying that the fish farms currently operating off the coast of BC are not approved by the province?
--Actually I did not disagree with the article I stated that there was no way to dispute that some benefits occur if everything goes right.
--Decisions were made about location of fish farms given the best available information of the day. I am not aware of nor did I imply that there are fish farms operating that do not have approval to do so. That does not mean that as new information becomes available that all current permits will be renued without any modification to best practices. I am fairly sure that the industry itself is looking toward continuous improvement of their opperations which may result in some being moved from their current location or at the least some modification of their current practices.
--More in line with the original topic Re: Unmuzzled-Government-Scientists... perhaps if unfettered technical information was available it may make for a more informed discussion.
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--Actually I did not disagree with the article I stated that there was no way to dispute that some benefits occur if everything goes right.
--Decisions were made about location of fish farms given the best available information of the day. I am not aware of nor did I imply that there are fish farms operating that do not have approval to do so. That does not mean that as new information becomes available that all current permits will be renued without any modification to best practices. I am fairly sure that the industry itself is looking toward continuous improvement of their opperations which may result in some being moved from their current location or at the least some modification of their current practices.
--More in line with the original topic Re: Unmuzzled-Government-Scientists... perhaps if unfettered technical information was available it may make for a more informed discussion.
Well, usually decisions are made with the best information available at the time and people can disagree as to how reliable that information is to make decisions, but that's not the point I wanted to raise. You said that "the government did not approve 100% of the areas staked out and applied for" which doesn't make sense given that aquaculture companies wishing to set up shop require approval from the province for where they are placed. Whether you agree or disagree with the methodology is a separate issue.
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He may be saying that aquaculture companies may have applied to place farms in certain areas but were turned down.
"the government did not approve 100% of the areas staked out and applied for"
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He may be saying that aquaculture companies may have applied to place farms in certain areas but were turned down.
True
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True
"but that's not the point I wanted to raise"
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--One of many problems is the under funding of government scientists. We have to rely on industry and non government organizations to provide research and information used for public policy decisions.
--Who cares if Government Scientists are unmuzzled if they don't have anything to say.
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--One of many problems is the under funding of government scientists. We have to rely on industry and non government organizations to provide research and information used for public policy decisions.
--Who cares if Government Scientists are unmuzzled if they don't have anything to say.
Exactly. See post # 2 in this thread.
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--One of many problems is the under funding of government scientists. We have to rely on industry and non government organizations to provide research and information used for public policy decisions.
--Who cares if Government Scientists are unmuzzled if they don't have anything to say.
That's not entirely true. Scientists like Miller are engaged in active research right now but all they get asked is how bad they were muzzled in the past. It's all work in progress with no definite conclusions but it doesn't mean that they can't be asked about it. The Feds recently hired more scientists on our coast in various fields including climate change, marine mammals, shellfish and aquaculture research. The challenge now is to ensure that the foundational work in the freshwater that feeds into management and conservation decisions is not sacrificed as a result.
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I had a bit of farmed salmon last week, it was served at a gathering I was at. I would not recommend it to anyone. Maybe if you loaded it with garlic and hot sauce it would be a source of protein. Just grilled it did not taste anything like salmon. :(
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What an odd statement. Multiple double blind taste tests show no difference in taste or a preference for farmed fish.
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Over my 67 years I have consumed many wild and hatchery salmonids, and over the last 20 years, quite a bit of farmed Atlantic salmon. The only difference I can detect is the flesh texture; farmed Atlantics are a bit softer and reminds me of Pacific salmonids that have been frozen. Imo, the taste is identical.
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I don't care for the farmed atlantics as much as I like farmed spring salmon. Farmed Atlantics taste a bit like trout to me and rightfully so.
Like not all salmon are the same the same can be said for farm fish.
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I must try to find some farmed chinooks; thanks aqua ;)