Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: LP89CG on October 26, 2015, 01:31:49 PM
-
what makes the difference between good roe and bad roe, or what ruins roe during the prep?
-
Blood in the skein will ruin a good roe
-
I fully agree on the blood comment. If there is still blood even after you bleed the fish (there usually is a little bit), cut the vein that runs along the skein and take a spoon and guide any blood along the vein until it comes out of slit you made. Clean it with a paper towel after it is out.
Another big one is if you do not butterfly your skein and the cure doesn't distribute evenly to all parts of the skein. This will make a nice looking outside with a mushy inside that didn't receive any cure.
Fool around with the dying process and you'll see how much time it takes for a tacky egg vs a wet one. I like wet eggs for fishing red chinooks in the summer. You go through more eggs but if you're catching fish that's ok. For coho and steelhead I like a tacky egg (I don't cure eggs for steel, just put borax).
The biggest mistake people make is not taking care of their eggs. Make sure the bleed the fish well as mentioned before.
If you overkill the drying and overkill the borax you could potentially dry out your eggs too much.
Finally, a mistake I see all the time comes during the curing process itself. After applying the cure, there will be a lot of juice in the container or bag, this is normal. People tend to drain that off but make sure you never do. The eggs will release liquid and the cure will turn into liquid quickly. The eggs will then reobsorb the liquid and become bigger and more plump after a few hours. So let the cure do the work.
You generally don't have to worry about burning your eggs with newer cures anymore, especially with Pautkes Fire Cure and their new liquid egg cure which is stupidly simple to use.
-
I find the most important thing is the right firmness/ dryness, what have you.
Too moist and it won't stay in the bait loop. Too dry and it won't milk and provide a good scent to the fish.
I simply borax and dry on racks until its up to my liking, which varies depending on size of skeins or precuts chunks I have made etc.
-
i pulled the skein apart and got a lot of single eggs out and cured them, then put them into roe sacks, just not sure if my roe is any good... havent had a tonne of success with it, a spring or two and chum but nothing that makes me feel like i have good roe.
-
A couple of copy/pastes from a different forum, that I found useful:
1. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS bleed your fish! in the net, a rope over the side or in the cooler. to me the eggs are more valuable than the fish. you have to have top quality eggs if you want to catch more fish. blood on the eggs can cause them to turn bad quickly.wipe off the skeins with a paper towel, plain paper, no print on it. some ingredients in cures will react negatively with inks in paper towels and newspaper. after the blood is off and the skeins are cut into bait sized pieces let drain to get all the excess liquid off. NEVER WASH THE EGGS!!!!! after you have used your cure lay out to dry on a piece of old fiberglass screen set atop of pop cans or such to allow good air flow around to dry the eggs. proper care of eggs is most critical to consistently catch more fish. and do not let cured eggs come into contact with metal, most cures will react to the metal as well. good luck with the eggs blake, and remember, blood belongs in the boat, not the eggs!
2. to properly bleed fish, stab the fish with a knife right behind the gill plate and in front of the pectoral fin. the heart is on the right side, this will cut the main artery and allow the fish to bleed very thourghly.
as for the people who say it doesnt matter if you have bloody eggs or not, good eggs are the difference between catching a couple fish or catching a dozen fish, we have all seen it on the river. usually there is one guy who is outfishing everyone although it "appears" you are doing what he is... a lot of times its the bait.
never wash your eggs! if you notice when removing the eggs from the fish there is a thick liquid with the eggs. this is part of what makes the eggs milk and carry the scent of the eggs. why would anyone want to wash this off???
if you put a lot of time into your bait, it will pay off! as proof, last year i fished a small river for fall chinook thanksgiving morning. i walked about 1 mile of river bank and caught 4 chinook using my friends eggs and he caught 5. once back to the truck i grabbed my eggs and we headed back down to the river. we walked the same area and fished the same holes, he caught 9 and i caught 22... all but 2 were chinook! nothing changed but the bait. he now swears by my bait!
3. Theres a million online resources which emphasize the importance of bleeding fish immediately after landing them.
Commercial fishermen live by a standard that makes a huge difference in thier sales. It all boils down to quality of the flesh at market time.
Ive attempted to emphasize the importance of bleeding AND gutting fish here several times with different reactions both in agreement, and, the popular " I've never noticed a difference"
For those of you interested in finding out if theres a difference, take an interest in science for a minute. I'll put it in as close to laymans terms as possible.
Blood in a dead or dying fish goes through many changes chemicaly. Studies clearly show blood is comprised of protiens, oxygen, hydrogen etc and when a fish dies and this blood is left in the veins and arteries a chemical breakdown occurs and, to make a long story short. Protiens are attacked by enzymes and the resulting waste is ammonia as well as other undesirables. Enzymes are living organisms that need oxygen to stay alive. Once the oxygen in the blood is depleted these enzymes attack oxygen rich flesh and cause a further breakdown....its called death kids. enzymes die and create bacteria almost immediately. Bacteria is alive too.. The bottom line is, bleeding fish properly makes a HUGE difference in fish texture, flavor and SHELF LIFE!
How does this apply to salmon eggs?
Theres no doubt in my mind that eggs cured from properly bled and gutted fish will catch far more fish than eggs cured from an unbled fish. No doubt at all. I make this statement not because of experience on the water using eggs from a bled fish along side eggs from an unbled fish. I am sure of this due to knowing what happens chemicallyinside a fish that has not been properly bled and gutted.
If humans, with a fraction of the "smell" senses of a fish can sense a difference in odor, texture and taste of a salmon fillet that has not been bled and gutted and chilled properly...does anyone have any doubts a salmon, which smells in parts per million would also react negatively to improperly handled eggs presented as bait? Remember, salmon are assumed to use thier sense of small to travel thousands of miles returning to thier native waters to spawn and die. Think they cant smell a little bacteria or ammonia in your cured eggs?
Enzymes left to die in fish blood produce millions more bacteria than in bled fish... No question about it.
Bleed those fish immediately. Severing the artery at the tail is by far the best way to bleed a fish but its not easy.
Ripping the gills with your hands produces more surface damage and causes more effective hemoraging than a sharp knife or scissors. Bonk the fish to incapacitate it...not to kill it. Obviously you want the heart to continue beating.
Blood contains parasites that will also look for oxygen when the blood has been depleted of it. Get the blood out quiker and the microscopic parasites, protiens and powerful enzymes will go with it and make a HUGE difference in your table fare as well as you eggs used for bait.
Gutting a fish soon after it has bled makes a big difference too, though its not always practical or reasonable on the boat while you're fishing.
If you want to take the advice of commercial fish buyers who have studied all the techniques to obtian the "best quality fish" bleed them, gut them and find the main artery located at the base of the spine near the anal fin and remove the end of that artery which will always be full of blood. Put a running hose in the cavity for a while and youll never have to use a spoon again to clean the blood along the spine. The flesh and the eggs will be a perfect pink with no sign at all of blood.
Allowing fish to go into and come out of rigor is also very important when it comes to flavor and texture. Leave it in the fridge or on ice until it completely finishes the "stiff" cycle and is limp again. This doesnt always happen when a fish is filleted before rigor has started and ended. Ask any of the many people here Ive fished with, I have never once filleted a fish at a fish cleaning station after a successful day. Theres a good reason. Rigor can take up to 30 hours. Never bend or force "stiff" fish to straighten out. You'll regret it when it comes time to eat it. Freeze fish that is already COLD and youll never have a problem with freezer burn. Get it good and cold in the fridge on ice for a day and then freeze it. It DOES make a difference.
I guaranty, if you dont bleed your fish while its alive, and wait all day to gut it until you get back to the launch. your fish will spoil within three days left in the refrigerator.
Bleed it, gut it and ice it within 60 minutes and those fillets can sit in the fridge covered for 7 to 10 days before they start smelling even a little fishy.
Bleed them fish! You'll be glad you did. Better table fare and much better bait.
-
drying time, and i agree with bleeding immediately also
-
Visually how do ya decipher good roe from bad as long as they do not look like that vacuum packed mush on that mega store shelf
For me if the berries last 5 cast and still milk I feel confident
-
"fresh roe" from berries = frozen before . you can see the color of it , its darkish , almost brown .
-
I am new to this roe cure so any help would be grateful!
Do you need to cure it and then borax it if you will freeze them?
What if you just use the red borax? Will that work as well?
-
I am new to this roe cure so any help would be grateful!
Do you need to cure it and then borax it if you will freeze them?
What if you just use the red borax? Will that work as well?
Usually I let the roe skeins air dry on racks for about 12-14 hours (depending on temperature). I will then cut each skein of roe into three pieces and then shake in borax. (Make sure to get the borax into all the flaps of the roe). The roe will go into ziploc bags, sealed, then into the freezer. Usually the roe lasts for 6-8 months in the freezer. The finished product is a nice, natural egg. If you want some colour, you can always add a bit of jello or kool-aid powder to the borax. If you want to use commercially made cures like Pro-Cure or Pautzke, you can use the search engine on this forum and you will come across many useful threads. Hope that helps! :)
-
Standard rules as everyone else. Bleed fish, cut open, place into seperate ziploc bag, get any remaining blood out of the skein by cutting along the vein every 3 inches or so depending on the size of skein, butterfly it open if it's fairly thick like a chum or spring skein, air dry on paper towel for 2-4 hours or till tacky to the touch, pour Pautzke fire cure to cover the top and bottom especially in some of the deeper parts of the skein and tumble around(in bag), put in ziploc bag and leave it outside at room temp for 4 hours, tumbling it around every hour so the juices coat everything and place in fridge for 24 hours, tumble again every 8-10 hours so the juices absorb back into the eggs and leave in the fridge till use.
A secondary step to the above that I've been trying is adding plain Borax to the eggs after the final curing process, seems to make the eggs a little tougher and lessens the "pink fingers" staining that the wet eggs do all so well. So far it's worked very well for me as I used to use Pro-cure but this year I switched it up and I am not sure I will be going back to Pro-cure with the results I've been having this year. ;D
-
A secondary step to the above that I've been trying is adding plain Borax to the eggs after the final curing process, seems to make the eggs a little tougher and lessens the "pink fingers" staining that the wet eggs do all so well.
I use firecure as well. I found keeping my freshly cured roe in lots of borax does toughen the skeins and dry out the eggs substantially. I use borax carefully and more so when I haven't had a lot of time to dry out the eggs properly for river fishing.
By the time I get to the river after driving from Vancouver they're almost perfect, as the day progresses they get decent for faster water etc. At the end of a long day, the smaller chunks are too dry for my liking.
As for storing and freezing, my experience has been, once cured I DO NOT store in borax. It has dried out my eggs so that they've been unusable. I also find that the freezing itself will result in a drier egg than if never frozen and straight out of fridge.
But I've done poorly this year, so take this for what it's worth. If you've been doing well, do whatever you're doing. Obviously your roe works.
-
I don't use coloured cure, but I don't roe fish very much. I often fish before work, and I don't want stinky fingers. ;)
-
I use firecure as well. I found keeping my freshly cured roe in lots of borax does toughen the skeins and dry out the eggs substantially. I use borax carefully and more so when I haven't had a lot of time to dry out the eggs properly for river fishing.
By the time I get to the river after driving from Vancouver they're almost perfect, as the day progresses they get decent for faster water etc. At the end of a long day, the smaller chunks are too dry for my liking.
As for storing and freezing, my experience has been, once cured I DO NOT store in borax. It has dried out my eggs so that they've been unusable. I also find that the freezing itself will result in a drier egg than if never frozen and straight out of fridge.
But I've done poorly this year, so take this for what it's worth. If you've been doing well, do whatever you're doing. Obviously your roe works.
Not sure why it's doing that for you, I've personally found that even at the end of the day I can bring home any extra eggs I have and keep them for the next trip and they stay in good condition.
I haven't tried the frozen eggs I've stored in borax but now I am tempted to see how they will do and what condition they are in. :-\ Slightly worried but who knows.
A friend tried my version after I was into my 7th spring many a week ago in under two hours, made 2 swings and he was on. I'm using the red color fire cure and it's been working rather well this season.
Well I am going to wish you some better luck, maybe with the rain we will get this week you will catch more coho! ;D
-
Not sure why it's doing that for you, I've personally found that even at the end of the day I can bring home any extra eggs I have and keep them for the next trip and they stay in good condition.
I haven't tried the frozen eggs I've stored in borax but now I am tempted to see how they will do and what condition they are in. :-\ Slightly worried but who knows.
haha..know what you mean about fretting about one's roe. I'll tell you what I did and you be the judge. This was with pink eggs. I cured them with red firecure according to instructions on the back, never dried before or after, put them in a 250 ml pickling jar, filled jar with borax (no air space as I thought this would be good), vacuum sealed with jar attachment on foodsaver, put in freezer.
6 months later, fished with it. It was a little too dry for my liking. YMMV.
I now just pack it in jars as much as I can (bang the bottom of jar on counter to settle the eggs), vaccuum seal and freeze. No drying time. I find once defrosted in the fridge, the eggs come out perfect for bar fishing and fishing canal like slower water. I cut into chunks and toss them in borax if I'm planning to fish faster water (which I always do if heading to the Vedder).
I'm exaggerating a little, they're usually OK to fish the next day. Though once they're in loonie sized chunks and I get home, I take them out of the old borax and put them in fridge as is in a sealed container. The next day I don't use any borax, they last forever on the hook.
My lack of success this year is likely more to do with my dislike for waking up early and poor water reading skills than the roe .. that's why it's not called 'catchin' ..haha.
But I haven't fished the Vedder since Oct. 9th. Other years the firecure worked well for coho (well in the mornings anyway).
I'm sure your roe that's in the freezer is OK, especially if it's chum roe. Maybe someone else with more experience will pipe in, I've read on other posts that storing in borax is the normal procedure. I'd just leave it now that it's frozen.
I'll give your dry for couple hours first before curing. I always assumed it would be better to air dry after it's cured .. probably being a little to OCD about this.
-
While cleaning out the freezer last week, I found an old taped up canning jar that had Chum roe from 2008. Thought damn this stuff is ruined, however took it out and de-thawed it and the eggs were fine. Back then we used to light a match inside the canning jar to get all the air out of it and I guess that worked well enough for 7 years taped up in the deep freezer LOL. Will be taking it out on Saturday after a bit of curetherapy to see how it does.
-
haha..know what you mean about fretting about one's roe. I'll tell you what I did and you be the judge. This was with pink eggs. I cured them with red firecure according to instructions on the back, never dried before or after, put them in a 250 ml pickling jar, filled jar with borax (no air space as I thought this would be good), vacuum sealed with jar attachment on foodsaver, put in freezer.
6 months later, fished with it. It was a little too dry for my liking. YMMV.
I now just pack it in jars as much as I can (bang the bottom of jar on counter to settle the eggs), vaccuum seal and freeze. No drying time. I find once defrosted in the fridge, the eggs come out perfect for bar fishing and fishing canal like slower water. I cut into chunks and toss them in borax if I'm planning to fish faster water (which I always do if heading to the Vedder).
I'm exaggerating a little, they're usually OK to fish the next day. Though once they're in loonie sized chunks and I get home, I take them out of the old borax and put them in fridge as is in a sealed container. The next day I don't use any borax, they last forever on the hook.
My lack of success this year is likely more to do with my dislike for waking up early and poor water reading skills than the roe .. that's why it's not called 'catchin' ..haha.
But I haven't fished the Vedder since Oct. 9th. Other years the firecure worked well for coho (well in the mornings anyway).
I'm sure your roe that's in the freezer is OK, especially if it's chum roe. Maybe someone else with more experience will pipe in, I've read on other posts that storing in borax is the normal procedure. I'd just leave it now that it's frozen.
I'll give your dry for couple hours first before curing. I always assumed it would be better to air dry after it's cured .. probably being a little to OCD about this.
Got me worried for a bit as I got quite a bit of pink roe and some spring roe sitting in the freezer at the moment. I haven't tested this batch as I used to use Pro Cure and Borax. Hoping nothing really happens to them as they been sitting for a fair bit especially the pink roe.
I do believe the pre-drying process does help a bit, a friend gave me some pink roe this season that had been sitting in for more than 8 hours in a tub with some water in it, I drained the water out and didn't dry the eggs and proceeded to add the fire cure to it, that batch of eggs didn't do so well as they milked out like mad if left at room temp and the shape wasn't very natural.... but the funny part is that it did catch me a good sized wild coho a couple weeks back.
I have a major dislike of early mornings as well but sometimes ya gotta push a bit to get those early biters, doesn't help that I work late evenings till 4am so when I am fishing I am generally half asleep....
I air dry the roe before curing but only till it's tacky to the touch, I don't drain or air dry the roe after it's gone through the curing treatment cause I want everything including the Borax to absord those extra juices as the Borax seems to milk off very nicely into the water and the little bit of added scent might help a bit.
NexusGoo, now that is some old roe! :o I thought that using two year old freezer burnt spring roe would be bad but amazingly it did the trick still.
-
I've been river fishing for about 8 years now. Bye no means a pro but I do pretty decent for salmon and steelhead. For years I was never a big roe fisherman. I never seemed to do any better than using wool, jigs and so on so I figured why am I going to all this hassle for bait that is a pain to use and not that effective for me.
Then I was at a used tackle swap last year and I bought this book off a guy.
http://www.amazon.com/Egg-Cures-Proven-Recipes-Techniques/dp/1571882383
There are a lot of "old school" curing recipes. I picked one I liked and WOW, I did much better with it this year compared to using the regular pro-cure, patuke, and whatever else I tried. I've had a few coho smash the roe almost as soon as it hit the water and the springs and chum love it too.
I don't think the recipe I used is "better" than the commercial cures, I think just different and perhaps more of a natural result. Think about it...everyone is fishing the same pink or red goop made from the same cures, fish get used to it..."oh, another chunk of procured roe! boring...."...then something different drifts along, different but still good color and smell.
I forget the exact mix but I can look in the book and try and remember what recipe I followed. Eggs came out very natural looking almost like salt water hardened eggs for roe sacks. I only did up one giant spring skien that my buddy gave me, and almost out of it now ???
I've been catching a ton of chum but I don't like eating them so I dont keep them and have no chum eggs :(
-
I forget the exact mix but I can look in the book and try and remember what recipe I followed. Eggs came out very natural looking almost like salt water hardened eggs for roe sacks.
I've been catching a ton of chum but I don't like eating them so I dont keep them and have no chum eggs :(
Yeah dude, if you don't mind everyone in the wack floating Procure, Pautzke's and the Spawn Special, let's hear it...haha. Nice, thanks for the link. I'm not a fan of the mess either so it's good to know the effort is worth it.
Smoked chum is excellent. Make great gifts.
-
Do you guys use a vacuum sealer (e.g. food saver) on your roe? I just took a sampling of my cured spring roe that was already frozen in freezer bags, took them out and vacuum sealed them with the food saver. I just need to remember to break the vacuum seal to release the pressure before thawing out my eggs. I'm not sure I needed to do this, as I'll likely be using that roe this year. But the vacuum sealer does do a great job getting all the air out of the bag as opposed to just using freezer bags. I found in the past that my roe in freezer bags can last up to a couple of years. But the fresher the better for sure.
-
Do you guys use a vacuum sealer (e.g. food saver) on your roe?
Do you cure your roe first before sealing?
My buddy does them in bags and swears by it. Uncured, and does the cure after thaw. Worked really well for bar fishing. I buy the knockoff Canadian Tire brand bags and my filets sometimes gets loose, he claims the name brand bags won't do that.
My first year I crushed a bunch of eggs, so haven't gone bag to using bags. I guess my cured roe wasn't as frozen as I thought before sealing. I now do it in small jars, but I do notice ice crystals forming in a couple spots (air pockets). The tighter I pack it the less this happens. Seems fine once thawed but I usually fish it within the year.
I may give bags a try again.
-
Do you cure your roe first before sealing?
My buddy does them in bags and swears by it. Uncured, and does the cure after thaw. Worked really well for bar fishing. I buy the knockoff Canadian Tire brand bags and my filets sometimes gets loose, he claims the name brand bags won't do that.
My first year I crushed a bunch of eggs, so haven't gone bag to using bags. I guess my cured roe wasn't as frozen as I thought before sealing. I now do it in small jars, but I do notice ice crystals forming in a couple spots (air pockets). The tighter I pack it the less this happens. Seems fine once thawed but I usually fish it within the year.
I may give bags a try again.
Yes, my roe is fully cured and frozen before sealing. I also cure my roe before freezing, but I do not add any borax until I thaw out the roe the night before I go out.
-
prior to most people having a freezer roe was preserved with salt. That's still a good cure. I have heard that to freeze roe it needs to have some of the water removed from the eggs or as it expands while freezing the outer membrane can break. That's partly what sulfates and borax does. Once I knew someone who worked for a fish packer and he got my father a 5 gallon bucket of chum roe. Dad froze it as it was though I said you should put some salt or borax on it first. Dad said it 'turned to soap' and just washed right off the hook and was essentially useless.
FWIW any roe I do I keep with a mix of equal parts rock salt, sugar and borax. Then wrap in newspaper for a day or two to dry out. It's easy and works well near as I can tell. Sulfate cures (Procure or Pautzke's) work very well but sulfate is toxic to fish and studies show it can kills smolts and small trout so I mostly avoid it now.
-
RalphH, do you just use plain white sugar in your recipe? The one I used from the book was similar to yours, but I can't remmeber if it was white sugar or another kind of sugar. I think it also had geletin in it (?) I will find the book and flip through it and find the recipe here.
Interesting info about the sulfates and fish mortality. I'm always a bit cautious when I hear "studies show that..." Several studies? A study? I'm not saying this isn't true I have no idea.
I mainly like tinkering with stuff including roe cures. I also like that I'm not tossing the same cure out there as most of the other roe fishermen. The "old school" recipe I used also didn't dye your fingers/hands which I also like. It pretty much came out looking like a regular skein but the roe was more translucent looking and of course mroe dry/rubbery. It looked like a skein of jensen eggs stuck together :D
-
I have heard that to freeze roe it needs to have some of the water removed from the eggs or as it expands while freezing the outer membrane can break.
Sulfate cures (Procure or Pautzke's) work very well but sulfate is toxic to fish and studies show it can kills smolts and small trout so I mostly avoid it now.
Funny, that's what I assumed as well.
However, my buddy with whom I fished with all season simply froze his uncured, and cured after thawing did extremely well. This was with pink roe and only frozen for a couple months at most. I experimented with one jar and I just found the roe to be a little drier after having been frozen. The eggs still looked in really good shape, but it just didn't water as much during the curing process. Came out looking the same, though he outfished me..so he must be holding out on some critical step..haha.
I think to be on the safe side I'm still going to cure first. It's just really convenient to come home, throw that days roe in the freezer and forget about it until you need it.
-
white sugar - it was a recipe from Ken Fraser's website - now defunct as far as I know.
AC I am no expert on roe cures - all I know is what I heard from others, read and my father's experience. I think we did the same before that and it didn't work. Quickly frozen really cold may be different. Today's home freezers are way better than what we had back in the 60s and 70s. I wouldn't freeze any fish back then as the results were so bad.
-
Interesting, thanks for the info.
I'll share my method and generally my roe catches fish, stays on the hook well, and so on.
As others have said bleed fish right away and gut right away. I carefully place skiens into a big ziplock without touching the water. If im in my boat I'll put this bag in a cooler with ice, if on shore I'll put in the shade and put some wet grass on top or something that will keep the eggs cool as best I can. I live close to the Vedder so if I decide to keep a clean doe I'll often just zip home and get the eggs in the fridge. I rarely fish roe but when I do I want it to be good s**t!!
I place newspaper on my workbench and lay the skiens on it. i take a sharp pair of scissors and butterfly the skeins open, then cut into "fishable" size chunks. Now I cure it however (procure or whatever). When the eggs have cured to my liking I take the chunks out and place on drying racks (on newspaper). They are the racks from my smoker actually!
I like my roe a bit drier so I put borax in a salt shaker style bottle and shake all over the one size. Leave for 1/2 a day, flip all pieces, and sprinkle borax on the other side, leave rest of the day.
When I am happy with how dry it is I put some borax in a container, toss chunks in, and cover with borax. Yes I use a lot of borax!! Then I put this container in the deep freeze. If I know I want to fish roe the next day I'll take the container out an let it sit overnight. Use it the next day and whatever is left when I get home goes BACK in the freezer. Repeat until all gone. I used some roe with good results last week that had been in/out of the freezer 5 or so times and it still caught coho and chum.
My buddy fishes ooey, gooey, snotty roe. Not dried at all. Probably a bit more productive than mine but I just can't handle having a poo-poo hand every time I touch the stuff!! Mine doesnt make a mess on your hands at all and catches fish.
-
Great info as usual guys.
My process -> butterfly skiens -> sprinkle cure -> put in ziplock bag -> sprinkle more cure -> close ziplock -> shake it around every 30 mins for a couple hours -> drain in collander -> set on racks to dry for at least 4 hours -> cut into bait sized chunks and put into ziplock bag with a lot of borax -> shake and massage ->freeze until the night before use, then thaw.
Pretty similar to other methods. I've been experimenting with Pro-cure, Fire-cure, and plain ol borax this year. I've had success on all types of cure, just depends what the fish are in the mood for. I'll often bring 2 types of roe and switch it up every few re-baits. And don't forget a little bit of light pink wool on your bait loop, a perfectly sized piece can encourage strikes in my experience. (I've also had friends catch fish on just skien so sometimes the fish are just hungry)
-
I`ve been playing with pro-cure last year , and I found out:
I butterfly skeins , I put some pro-cure on (I do it on paper towels) , turn them around and do the same . after I put them in plastic container with lid or ziplock , and shake it few times for first 2-3 hours , after I put it in a fridge (usually I do it at evening time) . next morning I shake it again few times making sure juice is covering every spot on skein , and I do it again at evening . for a first day you will see liquid coming out , but after 2-3 day all the liquid will be gone and they become rubberish . I had some luck on that stuff :)
p.s. I don't cut skeins in pieces :) I cut as I go ...
-
3 parts borax
2 parts sugar
1 part noniodized salt
Mix the 3 ingredients together in a container
Start with clean blood free eggs
Cut each skein into either 3 to 6 manageable pieces depending on size of skein and place on butcher paper
Sprinkle eggs with light coating of cure , rolling them in the powder making sure all surfaces are covered
Dump all baits in a glass bowl and place in the fridge
During this stage, juices will begin to form, gently mix eggs to encourage reabsorption if needed
Add scents or dyes after 24 hours
Keep eggs curing in the fridge for 3 days, they are good to slay, put in the remainder in the freezer.
This is a very durable cure that holds up well in all conditions and milks out nicely.
I use this recipe as my main go to, but I always hit the river with at least 3 cures
An excellent book on curing is Egg Cures, Proven Recipes and Techniques by Scott Haugen, it has over 25 recipes in it, well worth the purchase price. The recipe above is Buzz Ramseys personal called 3:2:1 Buzz
Good Luck out there
-
Maybe next season I will try these recipes, thank you guys for giving up some opinions and input on this.
Question for those who do a DIY/ natural cure. Is it a bad idea to add food coloring? Reason I ask is cause a friend was using a more "pink" colored roe and I was using the darker red color, darker red seems to have been the key for myself this season or maybe I was just lucking out this season. :o
-
Food colouring, koolaid, jello, Beau Mac Instant bait colouring, Pro-cure dye, take your pick
-
Food colouring, koolaid, jello, Beau Mac Instant bait colouring, Pro-cure dye, take your pick
Hmmm... I'll try a varying of each, the jello has me interested cause of well... jello. ;D "Everyone loves jello! Even the salmon!"
-
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc478/Penskyfile/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/Penskyfile/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image.jpg.html)
Just Procured this roe. I'm happy with the consistency and don't want it any drier.
1) Can I rinse the skeins to make them less staining?
2) how do I store them...if I put them in borax won't they turn into jerky?
-
Just roll them in borax and freeze.
-
Do not put them under the tap. Just borax them and store. Make sure the borax gets into every crack of the skein (I like to dust each skein individually and get every piece coated with a little bit before I put into a lot of borax for storage).
-
How well does fresh roe, uncured roe packed in a roe bag will do for Coho?
Does it work just as good as a cured (procure, borax)?
Anyone out there use fresh roe?
Thinking of trying it next time.
If it doesn't work I can always use this bait for Sturgeon.
I hear sturgeon love fresh roe.
-
This is how I store my roe now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smd-o47REQM
Except, unlike in the video, I don't air dry it at all before freezing.
I find once frozen, the skeins get a touch tougher. Depending on where and how I'm fishing, I either put it in borax the night before, the day of, or not at all. If I air dry at all I do it after it's been thawed.
Just roll it in borax before fishing if you don't want it messy. I don't think it's a good idea to rinse it.
Don't know, maybe I'm doing something wrong, but the last time I stored my roe in borax it came out too dry. Positive I didn't overcure my roe. I just figure you can always make it drier but not the other way around.
BCfisherman seems to catch a lot of fish, so whatever he's doing seems to work.
-
A friend who fishes for steelies on the East coast ties a lot of roe sacks, works really well for him over there. I tried doing the same a couple years ago but it didn't really work well for me but that might have been because I was mostly fishing the Cap, not to say it didn't work as I hooked one big steelie in there but none of the coho would take. I'll give it a whirl next season with both cured and uncured, watched some videos of how to treat single eggs so they stay nice and firm in the bags.
Saw the same video Animal Chin, I was debating on buying a vacume sealer attachment for some mason jars as I've heard that some people have had bad experience using vacume bags and crushing their eggs. :o
As to the last convo we had about frozen eggs, I took a batch that I froze in all the juices and it became a giant "clump" or ball, unfrozen it the day before and it was still in good shape, eggs still round and unbroken. Did the same with the boraxed roe but the eggs seemed a little tougher after they were defrosted, still fished good as it's what the only coho I hooked into today slammed.
-
I've heard that some people have had bad experience using vacume bags and crushing their eggs. :o
As to the last convo we had about frozen eggs, I took a batch that I froze in all the juices and it became a giant "clump" or ball, unfrozen it the day before and it was still in good shape, eggs still round and unbroken. Did the same with the boraxed roe but the eggs seemed a little tougher after they were defrosted, still fished good as it's what the only coho I hooked into today slammed.
Good work on the coho. Yeah go with whatever works. Didn't mean to freak you out..haha.
It definitely is nicer to fish with a firmer egg, you don't have to constantly re-roe. That roe I perceived to be too dry actually looked really nice after being in the water and lasted for many drifts, it's just most of the coho I've caught while floating roe has always been on gummier stuff.
No expert though, hence following this thread.
I bar fish with roe a lot and experiment because you can use two hooks and know with that particular dry batch I had no luck compared to wetter roe. Not exactly definitive though, with roe there could be a lot of factors at play (maturity of fish, blood etc).
I'm trying not to overthink here, but I'm trying to get a consistently good product for bar fishing purposes. It's easy to compare results of your roe while bar fishing, while floating roe in the Vedder and how well it works is a lot more complicated to determine.
Yeah I just cured up some chum eggs and was thinking about giving the vacuum bags a try again. It would be really useful to be able to just have small packs of different roe to take out with you instead of a whole jar...reusing the stuff from the last outing etc. The last time I tried it, I only pre-froze it for 24 hours (it looked and felt frozen), but I think because of the cure it wasn't completely frozen..gooey mess the result.
If you try to vac seal them in bags, let us know how you made out.
Just wondering if you guys have a lot of liquid left over after curing with firecure? I have almost none.
-
Good work on the coho. Yeah go with whatever works. Didn't mean to freak you out..haha.
It definitely is nicer to fish with a firmer egg, you don't have to constantly re-roe. That roe I perceived to be too dry actually looked really nice after being in the water and lasted for many drifts, it's just most of the coho I've caught while floating roe has always been on gummier stuff.
No expert though, hence following this thread.
I bar fish with roe a lot and experiment because you can use two hooks and know with that particular dry batch I had no luck compared to wetter roe. Not exactly definitive though, with roe there could be a lot of factors at play (maturity of fish, blood etc).
I'm trying not to overthink here, but I'm trying to get a consistently good product for bar fishing purposes. It's easy to compare results of your roe while bar fishing, while floating roe in the Vedder and how well it works is a lot more complicated to determine.
Yeah I just cured up some chum eggs and was thinking about giving the vacuum bags a try again. It would be really useful to be able to just have small packs of different roe to take out with you instead of a whole jar...reusing the stuff from the last outing etc. The last time I tried it, I only pre-froze it for 24 hours (it looked and felt frozen), but I think because of the cure it wasn't completely frozen..gooey mess the result.
If you try to vac seal them in bags, let us know how you made out.
Just wondering if you guys have a lot of liquid left over after curing with firecure? I have almost none.
All good, I just done this with a lot of pink roe this season, lots of it sitting in my freezer still from the summer and I was planning on using it for steelhead this winter. And thank you! ;D
Firmer eggs seem to stay on much better especially with longer drifts through faster water, I found that when I used the straight up fire cured roe (wet egg method) that the eggs only lasted maybe 3-6 drifts before all I had left was skein on the loop. With the Boraxed stuff I can get almost 15+ casts and it retains most of the eggs even with harder casts and drifts into fast water.
I haven't done much bar fishing this year as most of my friends rather hike the Vedder, but I get what you are saying about a more consistant product for fishing, but with the results I'm having this year I am happy.
I'll try the vacume bags but I am sort of hesitant due to how much pressure is put on the eggs in a bag... its almost like crushing them cause when I've done this with peas it has split and crushed more than a few. I'll post up with my results with a test batch.
Liquid... maybe about two table spoons or less depending on the quantity of roe being cured, but usually not very much so I just throw my borax in and let it absorb some of that scent.
-
Just wondering if you guys have a lot of liquid left over after curing with firecure? I have almost none.
How long are your eggs in your cure? Typically, you shouldn't see any juice or very little if you're letting them soak for a decent amount. The chemicals in the liquid of the cure is soaked back up by you're eggs after a while and that is what you should be aiming for, depending on your fishing situation that is.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlzAawP_jsM
-
This video reminded me of why I now use latex gloves when processing and handling cured roe. :o
Besides scent control, who wants obsorbtion into the skin of who knows what kinds of chemicals that are formulated in today's commercial cure mixtures.
The only draw back to the use of latex gloves on the river, is that my friends seem to keep their distance.
I'm guessing its the baby blue latex gloves I use that reminds them of their annual Doctors visit. 8) ;D
-
How long are your eggs in your cure?
I basically follow the directions. I usually fish or freeze them after 48 hours or when I see all the liquid has been re-absorbed. I made the mistake of dumping the juice out my first time curing, won't do that again. Good video.
That guy uses about twice the amount of cure I use though.
Reason why I asked is sometimes my eggs are gooey, like a few posts above and other times they're firmer, fuller and more translucent. Anyhow thanks, I'll figure it out.
Caught my first Vedder coho today (on a blade...haha). I bled my fish like I normally do, and have never had blood in my eggs, but today I'm looking at the eggs I took out of the fish, and they're pretty red. I expected them to be more of a pinkish or orange color.. what do you guys think?
I normally don't use roe for steelhead, and not a fan of coho roe anyway, but someone told me coho roe works great for steelhead. I'll take a look at them again later tonight, but not going to bother using them if they're filled with blood...
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww31/elf773/DSC01185.jpg) (http://s703.photobucket.com/user/elf773/media/DSC01185.jpg.html)
-
I think those are some good looking eggs once you wick the blood away on the main veins.
Chinook and Chum roe has a more pale colour right out of the fish then coho roe.
-
If you are concerned with the blood line, snip one end of the vein and squeeze the blood out. All blood should be removed if possible. The colour looks great, no need for additives.
-
OK Good.. no I use an exacto blade (just figure this one out, use to use my filet knife) to make relief cuts, and a teaspoon to wick out the vein. I was just concerned about the color of the eggs. I don't remember coho having such red eggs.
Think I'll try that 3-2-1 cure with these eggs and fish them for steelhead. When bar fishing, I've never caught coho on coho eggs. Even when super fresh from the day before. I'm sure they've worked for some people. Sockeye eggs never do well either.
Thanks.
-
I try to match roe to what has already spawned, like pink eggs for springs, spring eggs for coho and chum eggs for steelhead. I've had coho take pink eggs but not as many as more larger eggs like spring and chum. My only reason for this is just to match conditions and what they might expect to see in the river during that time. I haven't caught to many doe cohos this season (not that I should be complaining) but I want to cure some eggs up for steel season cause their eggs are more medium sized compared to springs and chum.
-
Think I'll try that 3-2-1 cure with these eggs and fish them for steelhead.
Make sure you use noniodized salt ...Good luck
-
Just for those who were wondering, I froze my roe in small individual use freezer bags instead of freezing them in canning jars. After curing I put the chunks on parchment paper and froze for 48 hours. Vacuum sealed with no eggs broken. It's been about 10 days and the bags are still sealed tight.
I have a chest freezer. I remember doing this long ago and had eggs in my regular fridge freezer for 24 hours and it turned into a bloody mess. So maybe a bit longer in the freeze if you don't have a chest freezer.
It was chum roe and I cured it 3 different ways. The last picture is coho roe just before vacuuming. It took me about 5 minutes to seal them in 4 bags, might be too long.. the last 2 had a couple eggs break, so vacuum seal them quickly.
I doubt it'll catch me more fish than just chucking them in a ziplock bag and freezing ... but whatever.
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww31/elf773/DSC01186.jpg) (http://s703.photobucket.com/user/elf773/media/DSC01186.jpg.html)
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww31/elf773/DSC01187.jpg) (http://s703.photobucket.com/user/elf773/media/DSC01187.jpg.html)
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww31/elf773/DSC01188.jpg) (http://s703.photobucket.com/user/elf773/media/DSC01188.jpg.html)
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww31/elf773/DSC01189.jpg) (http://s703.photobucket.com/user/elf773/media/DSC01189.jpg.html)
3-2-1 Cure coho roe:
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww31/elf773/DSC01190.jpg) (http://s703.photobucket.com/user/elf773/media/DSC01190.jpg.html)
-
Nice colors and look on the roe, the natural colored stuff looks really nice with that very light amber color, I think I'm going to try some of the more natural colors next time I get a good batch of eggs.
I haven't vacumed sealed any of the roe I've gotten as I gave pretty much all my roe to a buddy who uses a LOT of it... a couple cohos with good roe and chum with nice chunky skeins... sigh I wanted to prep those for winter steelhead but oh well... I still got some extra pink and spring roe sitting in the freezer. The loose frozen stuff seems to be in good condition still except for one small bag that may have gotten some freezer burn.... :o Oh well if those eggs are toast I'll just keep the juice and use those on the wool and beads this winter.
-
Someone mentioned adding scents but does anyone add scented oils like anise, krill, nightcrawler or herring and if so how does it affect the curing process?
-
Someone mentioned adding scents but does anyone add scented oils like anise, krill, nightcrawler or herring and if so how does it affect the curing process?
i would only add a scent once the roe ball/ bag is on your hook. The scents are mostly oils and that stuff is gross it gets on your hands and does not come off making everything you touch all greasy.
-
Someone mentioned adding scents but does anyone add scented oils like anise, krill, nightcrawler or herring and if so how does it affect the curing process?
Like LostSockeye said, I've tried adding some of the pro-cure scents like krill and anise at the same time while using like pro-cure and I found that the stuff is either really soft to the point where it feels like it's just mush in my fingers or/and oily and greasey, while this may not be a bad thing this stuff doesn't come out easily with just washing my hands in water and actually requires a good cleaner like orange clean.
There are some recipes on youtube which use oils during/ after the curing process but I've found that I never really needed to add any additional scents to my roe, you can always try and see what works well for yourself cause somethings work better for others and vice versa.
For myself I just throw my roe into a bag of Pautzke fire cure, leave it out for 4-5 hours at room temp, tumble every half hour to hour so juice and everything rolls around, put into the fridge for 24 hours, tumble the fridge kept stuff every 8 hours and then cut it up into small portions and store in Borax.
-
For myself I just throw my roe into a bag of Pautzke fire cure, leave it out for 4-5 hours at room temp, tumble every half hour to hour so juice and everything rolls around, put into the fridge for 24 hours, tumble the fridge kept stuff every 8 hours and then cut it up into small portions and store in Borax.
I use a similar process with the fire cure. I like how the borax reduces freezer burn and find it stiffens and dries the bait out which can be good or bad. I just got the borax o fire by Pautzke and will see how this stuff works.
-
I use a similar process with the fire cure. I like how the borax reduces freezer burn and find it stiffens and dries the bait out which can be good or bad. I just got the borax o fire by Pautzke and will see how this stuff works.
I've tried putting the roe into the freezer both ways and they seem fine when I defrost them 24 hours before I go on a trip. I'm still tempted to use the vacume sealer and keeping a batch for a year or two and seeing what happens, kinda worried the vacuming process might destroy the eggs (crushing them) and ending up with a pile of gooey egg juice.
-
Not too sure about how freezing and vac sealing works but I sometimes vac seal. I usually freeze them first and then seal bc the eggs won't break if theyre frozen. Issue I find with sealing frozen eggs is that they have air pockets around the eggs which can lead to freezer burn. If I vac seal without freezing eggs, I use the vac pause button once the air is out and then manual seal button. I don't get a lot of eggs, so I conserve what I have by curing asap then storing as needed - some times just refrigerator instead of freezer. If it was a batch that was on the moister side and I didn't use all of what I'd taken out, I can reuse the rest another day to a certain extent.