Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: dave c on February 13, 2014, 03:02:33 PM
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I was fishing mid river Tuesday on a lovely run. When I arrived, there were three others present. I proceeded to the head of the run. Shortly thereafter another fisherman arrived and started fishing above me. About halfway down the run a nice steelhead showed itself twice by coming completely out of the water. It jumped on the other side of the run (within easy casting distance) about 50ft below me on the run. The fellow below me realized the fish wasn't really in his zone and he wished me words of encouragement. I tossed one cast and came up a little short of distance and as i was reeling in I watched in shock as the guy who was above me proceeded to drop in below me, and to add insult to injury he decides to wade halfway across the run, waist deep in water. I was entirely blocked out by this guy. When i finished picking my jaw up off the ground, i told the guy he needs to learn some etiquette and he didnt repond. The well wisher below me also gave this guy a piece of his mind to which we heard the classic "No speak English". After a few more choice words i decided to leave. No idea if he bagged the fish. Just as well.
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I would have just kept fishing, allowing my drifts to go long so I "had" to reel past his legs praying that I would hook him. I have hooked the odd guy over the years that's tried cutting me off in the same manner. That type of behaviour is pathetic and done on purpose which is what really gets me going >:(
Had a guy do sort of the same thing while I was spey fishing about 3yrs ago. I warned him he was within my anchor range but he didn't care. He sure as hell cared when my fly line "accidentally" wrapped around his neck and I pulled tight 8)
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He sure as hell cared when my fly line "accidentally" wrapped around his neck and I pulled tight 8)
You must feel like a real hero.
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toss a rock at their float and move on.
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Yup I would have a skipped a few stones them said have a nice day and walk away
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I am going to carry a can of bear spray if I ever decide to fish the Vedder. I could always claim that I was in fear for my life.
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I just put on one of my weighted size 2 coho flies and aim right at the guys head. I'm pretty accurate with a fly rod and can usually hit my target within a cast or two. I've taken guys hats and glasses off a few times and sunk the point into a few guys. No eyeballs so far, but more than a few flesh wounds. It is kind of fun and adds a little spice to the day. I change to a 10 lb leader so I can break off easily. The loss of a few flies is worth the satisfaction of seeing the shocked look on their face. A few years ago I snagged a guy's gear rod right out of his drift boat as they were passing by using level winds in the fly only section.
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You must feel like a real hero.
Why the snarky reply 'Big Fish?' What did it leave much of a welt on your neck?
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Had the same thing happen to me couple weeks ago after 6 hours on the river dude walks down the bank about 40 feet down from me and hooks a beauty doe first drift. Only fish I saw all day. He even had the nerve to ask me to take a picture for him ::)
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Why the snarky reply 'Big Fish?' What did it leave much of a welt on your neck?
I guess everyone has to weigh the morals of bad manners justifying assault. I haven't had many bad experiences but those I did tried my patience and self control. I think it depends on one's temperament. I like the rocks tossed into the water by the float suggestion.
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Throwing rocks, really?
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I just put on one of my weighted size 2 coho flies and aim right at the guys head. I'm pretty accurate with a fly rod and can usually hit my target within a cast or two. I've taken guys hats and glasses off a few times and sunk the point into a few guys. No eyeballs so far, but more than a few flesh wounds. It is kind of fun and adds a little spice to the day. I change to a 10 lb leader so I can break off easily. The loss of a few flies is worth the satisfaction of seeing the shocked look on their face. A few years ago I snagged a guy's gear rod right out of his drift boat as they were passing by using level winds in the fly only section.
You come on a public forum and brag about assault with a weapon and then imply that you are hoping for an eye one day and you justify this because someone stood where you wanted to stand. Worse yet, you have people supporting this behavior. What low holers do is inconsiderate, yes but it is still public property and not illegal. Scarring and possibly disabling someone over it is illegal. Bragging about it is disturbing. It amazes me that you would lose your mind over someone dropping garbage and be disgusted and want the law to step in when people snag fish but you think hurting and scarring a human is acceptable.
As a new angler I am scared to fish near anyone in case it's you and I make a mistake. As a human I am disgusted by the actions, bragging and support. And if I was a paying sponsor on this site I would seriously consider taking my money somewhere else so that I was not associated with a group that laughs about hurting people.
Flame me if you want but most of you would stand up for what you believe in to a snagger, and that's all I am doing. He's just not snagging fish.
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Had the same thing happen to me couple weeks ago after 6 hours on the river dude walks down the bank about 40 feet down from me and hooks a beauty doe first drift. Only fish I saw all day. He even had the nerve to ask me to take a picture for him ::)
So , did you take a picture for him ?
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Scarring and possibly disabling someone over it is illegal.
Bragging about it is disturbing.
I almost 100% guarantee you in court that you could easily do what Ian did and have it not deemed illegal (and get off on charges). If you gave the guy fair warning and told him he was in your casting radius (which is idiotic if you see someone fly fishing), it is their own fault. You can prove you did your due diligence by warning them, and they didn't move. It isn't your job to move, especially if you were there first.
Bragging about it however, then you would probably have some assault charges laid. I'm sure Ian though wouldn't be bragging about it on a forum if it was going to court.
I personally, walk away when some one low holes me. The Vedder is a joke, expect to get low holed, it's just the way it is out there. There honestly isn't enough water any more for people to have a run to themselves each, someone is always going to walk in somewhere. Take a note of where the fish was hooked below you, walk away, and go catch a fish there later. Low holing doesn't even bother me any more as I've caught more than my fair share behind people anyway.
Throwing rocks, really?
And yes really. If someone walks below you... fair game. If people low hole me badly enough on a river other than the vedder I do the same. Or cast my spoon on it's normal swing, hope and pray I catch their gear when they cast over me, and cut it off ;D
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So if we throw rocks, do we stomp our feet, and drop our bottom lip and storm of like a - year old. come on.
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Every time, sometimes I even cry a bit.
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I almost 100% guarantee you in court that you could easily do what Ian did and have it not deemed illegal (and get off on charges). If you gave the guy fair warning and told him he was in your casting radius (which is idiotic if you see someone fly fishing), it is their own fault. You can prove you did your due diligence by warning them, and they didn't move. It isn't your job to move, especially if you were there first.
I don't think due diligence has any currency in a criminal case of assault. BTW asserting that you can 100% guarantee something could happen is a contradiction in terms. In a circumstance like that where they change to large weighted fly specifically as part of a non violent altercation then let's say, blind a person in an eye that's a serious assault and the circumstances would have to be pretty ripe to to get an acquittal. Even if they did it could go to civil court and the cost of an eye would be pretty high. I'd dare say a fly angler could be liable even if they caused such an injury by accident with no intent. Warning someone or even the fact someone going near a person engaging the such activity may just reduce the blame not the fact of liability. At the final point a person has an obligation to if possible stop an activity that could cause harm to someone else.
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Low-holing can become an Olympic sport.
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I almost 100% guarantee you in court that you could easily do what Ian did and have it not deemed illegal (and get off on charges). If you gave the guy fair warning and told him he was in your casting radius (which is idiotic if you see someone fly fishing), it is their own fault. You can prove you did your due diligence by warning them, and they didn't move. It isn't your job to move, especially if you were there first.
Bragging about it however, then you would probably have some assault charges laid. I'm sure Ian though wouldn't be bragging about it on a forum if it was going to court.
I personally, walk away when some one low holes me. The Vedder is a joke, expect to get low holed, it's just the way it is out there. There honestly isn't enough water any more for people to have a run to themselves each, someone is always going to walk in somewhere. Take a note of where the fish was hooked below you, walk away, and go catch a fish there later. Low holing doesn't even bother me any more as I've caught more than my fair share behind people anyway.
And yes really. If someone walks below you... fair game. If people low hole me badly enough on a river other than the vedder I do the same. Or cast my spoon on it's normal swing, hope and pray I catch their gear when they cast over me, and cut it off ;D
You are not a lawyer obviously. The "I warned him is not an excuse". It actually proves your guilt by showing you had knowledge of what you were doing and potential consequences but still continued with intent.
I am going to start punching the air and walking forward and if you are in the way then it's your fault.
Anyways no point bating a dead horse on this one guys(the great corking debate). Some people feel they are entitled to certain things that may be common courtesy or what not, but, if it's not illegal and you don't like it sometimes you just have to walk away
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It's no where near the same thing as walking forward punching the air in front of you. And if you tell someone that you would recommend they move away because there is a chance they could get hurt, that does not put blame on you. You are not TELLING them you are going to hurt them, you are giving them fair warning.
I can do the same thing you guys are (comparing it to something not remotely relative to the situation). How about a guy walking out onto a normal road gets hit and is going to sue the driver because the driver didn't stop. In any case, a person should be responsible for their own safety, you shouldn't be responsible for them if they can't think for themselves.
I in fact wouldn't even warn the guy, I would keep casting as if I never saw him. If he got hooked, it's his own fault. No one should be standing anywhere near someone flinging a hook around. I'm pretty sure you would have an extremely hard time getting an assault charge pressed or any lawsuit if you got hooked by a fly angler (unless they were directly casting at you). Try proving to a judge that you were in the right to be standing 10 feet away from a spey angler, when you know they need at least that much room to cast (any person CAN observe this). Remember, you are innocent until proven guilty beyond doubt.
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For the record, I don't care if he (or you) would get off in court or not. The fact is, he and several other people (you included) , have already admitted that they would do it on purpose and lie about it later. The fact that you would intentionally hurt another human being over a small piece of water that may or may not have a fish in it that you may or may not catch, is sickening. All you people who would do this sort of thing are no better than the people who will assault someone in a store on black Friday to get a good deal. Disgusting display of the worst of human nature. Low holing is not an excuse to attempt to blind another human being. Period. If think this is ok, I suggest you seek help.
I sure hope nobody you care about is ever on the receiving end of something like this.
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For the record, I don't care if he (or you) would get off in court or not. The fact is, he and several other people (you included) , have already admitted that they would do it on purpose and lie about it later. The fact that you would intentionally hurt another human being over a small piece of water that may or may not have a fish in it that you may or may not catch, is sickening. All you people who would do this sort of thing are no better than the people who will assault someone in a store on black Friday to get a good deal. Disgusting display of the worst of human nature. Low holing is not an excuse to attempt to blind another human being. Period. If think this is ok, I suggest you seek help.
I sure hope nobody you care about is ever on the receiving end of something like this.
Amen....don't let the hype of a few cyber bullies deter you rgm,it does not happen in all rivers,it unfortunately is the Vedder mentality,I used to fish it 25 yrs ago and it was no different.Most of steelheaders are real nice and helpful people,you know the 80/20 rule in life...is that 20% that gives everyone a bad name,as you can read alot of people on this thread are against the actions of the few...I suggest go start fishing and ask if you are not sure,majority of steelheaders on the river will be more than happy to guide you along
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Low holing is not an excuse to attempt to blind another human being. Period. If think this is ok, I suggest you seek help.
I wouldn't ever intentionally try to blind another person, ever.
Would I continue fishing if they invaded the area I need to cast? Yep. Would I give them fair warning I need that area to cast? If they looked new - yes I would.
My point is that if you are within 20-30 feet of any type of spey or fly angler, you're probably not the smartest person on the river, and the fly fisherman shouldn't have to move every time some one does that to them (it would be moving every 10-15 minutes, especially during salmon). If you want to get within casting space of a fly angler, then you're risking the fact you may get a hook somewhere, whether they want to do it intentionally or not.
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Every Day..............I think he was refering to Ian Forbes post about putting on a weighted salmon fly and casting it at someone's head
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It's no where near the same thing as walking forward punching the air in front of you. And if you tell someone that you would recommend they move away because there is a chance they could get hurt, that does not put blame on you. You are not TELLING them you are going to hurt them, you are giving them fair warning.
I can do the same thing you guys are (comparing it to something not remotely relative to the situation). How about a guy walking out onto a normal road gets hit and is going to sue the driver because the driver didn't stop. In any case, a person should be responsible for their own safety, you shouldn't be responsible for them if they can't think for themselves.
Wrong again, you are in control of the motor vehicle/ Spey rod it is your responsibility to ensure you don't cause harm and take all reasonable measures to avoid it. If someone is crossing the road be it jaywalking etc.. or within your casting area it is your responsibility to stop. You can't go around hitting ppl Bc they shouldn't be there.
Dan, I normally look forward to reading your posts as they are usually interesting and informative. However, I feel you may have missed the mark on this one
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This is getting more interesting than The Jerry Springer Show 8)
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I fish here tooooooo.
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it almost seems like this is turning into the wild wild west. A bunch of fisherman thinks they can assault someone because for some rules that they think everyone should follow. And this is supposed to teach new fisherman the proper way to fish. They come here looking for information and they see standing or fishing below someone can get your eye hook or face rip by fisherman above.
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If someone is crossing the road be it jaywalking etc.. or within your casting area it is your responsibility to stop. You can't go around hitting ppl Bc they shouldn't be there.
Fair enough.
I'm simply stating that it would be VERY hard, if not impossible (going from experience in legislation, writing up legal reports for classes, and attending court cases) to get a conviction on someone for hooking you with a spey or fly rod on a river, UNLESS they were seen casting directly at you.
If they are in your area, and you hit them with your anchor or back cast, that is not something you were intentionally doing. Next time I see the judge I have contact with through school, I'll ask if she would charge someone under these circumstances. Knowing her, she'd probably turn to the guy who got hooked and ask what he was doing standing there when he knew the spey angler needed more room. You can't expect someone to move and stop fishing just because you want to fish there and need their space.
NOTE: I am only commenting on the fly fishing/spey fishing aspect of this thread. I would never condone hucking a spoon or a float fishing set up at a boat, person, etc. In that case, you know what you're doing and you really don't need the room. My point of view is from the fly/spey angler who NEEDS room to fish. Although some here would intentionally cast as someone with their fly rod - it would be hard to prove just because of what fly fishing is. I wouldn't do it, but I know other people (friends included) would.
This is my opinion, not what I do. I have never cast at any one, and generally I leave without even saying anything. I have a couple times tossed rocks on my way out, and have once or twice cut line when someone has cast over me (mostly due to not wanting to sit there and untangle a huge mess of braid twisted by a spoon).
I'm simply stating - if you're in a fly/spey caster's area, you're an idiot and you're potentially going to get hurt. In the case you do get hurt, it was your own fault. End of story.
Getting back to the original post - IT'S THE FREAKING VEDDER. As my other post said... not even enough room for every angler to have his own piece of water any more.
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(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j456/troywonder/CA97D057-FC42-4236-B691-7E763FB7EFE4.jpg)
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Wow, a thread on low-holing that's turned into people arguing and talking about how they'll f*** someone up if that happens to them. There's something new on FWR :-\
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This is why I just stay home now, its worse than beverly hills house wives
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Nothing gets me more fired up then catching a fish behind someone, then seeing the look on there face. Bring it on low holers, Let me see those faces. ;D
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Wow, a thread on low-holing that's turned into people arguing and talking about how they'll f*** someone up if that happens to them. There's something new on FWR :-\
This is the only site that tolerates this,same guys talking s**t every time,mods don't step in,and of course they are all BIG guys and can take care of themselves,grow up children,it's a public river,everyone has a right to fish it without being threatened by having spey lines wrapped around their necks and weighted flies tossed at their heads
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for the record I don't give a flying f**k if you low hole me, just don't do it within my casting space and force me to either- have to move or stop all together and leave. I have been privy to being low holed so much on the Cheddar it doesn't even phase me, it does bug me a little when I am not allowed to finish out the run. I do get pleasure from pulling fish behind others though :D
In regards to me wrapping my fly line around his neck. part of that was just to see if I could and because he was being a horses my friend about not moving I felt he needed a wake up call.
only time I have ever hooked someone besides myself was at Green Timbers like 15yrs ago when some dude decided to stand directly behind me while I was casting. I had no idea he was there or where he came from because I would always look for walkers/joggers before casting.
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This is the only site that tolerates this,same guys talking s**t every time,mods don't step in,and of course they are all BIG guys and can take care of themselves,grow up children,it's a public river,everyone has a right to fish it without being threatened by having spey lines wrapped around their necks and weighted flies tossed at their heads
Don't close der thread or dey'll kick yer my friend!
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This is why I just stay home now,
X2
After over 50 years of fishing this river I believe I'm done with it. Love the system and will support its protection forever, but fishing it? Maybe, occasionally ..
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This is why I just stay home now, its worse than beverly hills house wives
Don't stay home Jim, lots of cutthroat action on the Fraser with a few steel thrown in with them. Haven't fished the Vedder for 4 years now for steel, much more satisfying fishing all day on the Fraser and ????? and not seeing another angler.
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if they banned all fly fishermen from the river(myself included),they would be able to put ten fold more fishermen on any given run,as we take up too much room to execute our cast,especially spey casts so it's not the bait caster that owes us an apology when they infringe too close,it's us that should apologize to them for taking up too much room.In today's crowded systems,they are tolerating us not the other way around,and when you have attitudes like casting a fly at someone's head,does anyone ever wonder why we fly fishermen are the most despised anglers.Used to feel pretty proud carrying a fly rod for 45 years ,but not anymore
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Guys, this is only fishing!!!!!!!!!!
It is supposed to be a fun thing to do. Why get high blood pressure over it??
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You are a bunch of fence posts, for every 10 people I see, only 1 is actually moving threw a run.
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I vote that this topic be reserved to posters with over 1000 posts and replies showing signs of intelligence. For those with over 1000 with no signs intelligence, you will be and have been tolerated.
:P