Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dave on January 18, 2014, 04:40:33 PM
-
Yesterday a good friend gave me a chrome bright steelhead he had just caught from the Vedder. While butchering this fish I opened up the stomach to have a look and, not surprisingly found a bunch of stuff … app 20 single salmon eggs, ranging in color from orange to white, a one inch chunk of angler dyed pink shrimp/prawn, and a 4” pink rubber worm.
Over the years I have examined the stomach contents of quite a few steelhead and invariably they all have something to show; feathers, salmon eggs, chunks of roe, prawns, ghost shrimp, pieces of wood, gravel, plastic baits, etc. So it got me to wondering what other anglers have found in the stomachs of these fish? Because steelhead in freshwater have lost the ability to digest food items, it is important to note what you may find in an April caught fish could have been eaten a few months previously.
So, what was your steelhead eating before you bonked it?
-
Sorry Dave, no info available here. I've never had any interest in what hatchery fish have been eating :D
-
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/v/t34/1608692_10153710584200626_1453819590_n.jpg?oh=87e6fefd7c8d973f85a4aff6911671e3&oe=52DD820A&__gda__=1390233180_1a275a0738f16dadf80073a10680c06a)
This one was only eating single eggs until it ate a fly.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvzojOJ_llg
Take a look at this.
-
Sorry Dave, no info available here. I've never had any interest in what hatchery fish have been eating :D
Can't buy that Mike! If you have killed a hatchery fish over the years, and I suspect you have, your bio mind made you check!!
-
Small children, the occasional cat or dog, and the big, black and purple Intruder I was soaking.
-
Found a piece of purple wax about the size of a quarter once. I don't know if wax breaks down in fish or not, could of been there awhile.
-
Small children, the occasional cat or dog,
Those a food for pike, not steelhead.
-
last thing mine ate was my fly, due to a fin being there I have no idea what it was eating beforehand ;)
while reviving it it did however lunge up and grab a stick floating down of around 6" in size :o
-
Of the few fish I have bonked, i have found mainly single eggs, a pink worm, a gooey bob, and lots of pebbles(presumably from eating singles)
However, i have seen steelhead eat my float, split shots, blue fox laying motionless on the bottom in a foot of water after releasing it, etc
-
I have had two hatchery steelies with memorable stomach contents.
The first was on the Capilano, back in the 80's, which was a bar pf chrome. 9 worms, 4 salmon eggs, a piece of ghost shrimp and a millipeed type worm.
In 2012, a vedder fish had a 6" plastic worm c/w hook and kinky leader.
-
Question for Dave.
You say when a steelhead enters fresh water it loses the ability to digest food! So when a summer-run enters its home river in June and swims around for lets say 9/10 months before the spawn they can't digest food? Just living on fat reserves, Really? I have caught a lot of steelhead in my time and have seen some weird things in the stomachs. From smolts, fry, worms, bugs, cig butts, eggs, gravel and artificial baits. Plus there is always something going towards their sh*ter!
Please post the info that you studied / read this from.
Thanks, I need a good read!
-
Question for Dave.
You say when a steelhead enters fresh water it loses the ability to digest food! So when a summer-run enters its home river in June and swims around for lets say 9/10 months before the spawn they can't digest food? Just living on fat reserves, Really? I have caught a lot of steelhead in my time and have seen some weird things in the stomachs. From smolts, fry, worms, bugs, cig butts, eggs, gravel and artificial baits. Plus there is always something going towards their sh*ter!
Please post the info that you studied / read this from.
Thanks, I need a good read!
A quick Google search found this ...
“For salmon, fat is where it’s at. When they’re living in the ocean, salmon eat a lot to store up plenty of fat. This fat is the fuel they need to get to their spawning grounds. Once salmon enter freshwater, they stop eating. So a salmon is a lot like a car that must make a long trip on one tank of gas. If anything delays the salmon, they may use up their fuel too soon — and not have enough to make it home.”
— U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, Pacific Region
“Mature fish caught in a stream or river are unlikely to have any food in their digestive system. Spawning fish stop eating when they begin their upstream run, and may go up to 16 weeks without food before spawning and dying.”
— Great Canadian Rivers
“The salmon undergoes physiological changes as it travels. Before it enters fresh water, its digestive system shuts down. It may go without food for 12 months.”
— Parks Canada
“When the salmon begin their upriver spawning migration, they stop eating.”
— Pacific Northwest National Laboratory
“When they’re living in the ocean, salmon eat and store up fat for their return to their spawning grounds. Once salmon enter freshwater they no longer feed.”
— U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, Pacific Southwest Region
“Salmon stop feeding as they enter fresh water. Their stomach is no longer needed and it begins to disintegrate internally -- leaving more room for the developing eggs and sperm.”
— ThinkSalmon.com
“Salmon stop eating and drinking when they enter fresh water, because the lack of salt water is a shock to their systems. The change is such a shock, in fact, that internal organs begin failing in some salmon.”
— Discovery Channel
“Even before salmon begin their upstream migrations, they begin changing from bright silver to dark brown and finally to black. Their digestive tracts shrink to almost nothing and they stop eating. As a result, salmon are reluctant to bite once they move into their home streams. Still, many are taken during the spawning run, probably because they strike out of instinct rather than hunger.”
— Reel Fishing Reports
http://www.reelfishingreports.com/salmon-fishing.html
“Salmon use all their energy for returning to their home stream, for making eggs and digging the nest. Most salmon stop eating when they return to freshwater and have no energy left for a return trip to the ocean after spawning.”
— U.S.G.S. Western Fisheries Research Center
“Salmon stop eating once they head toward their respective spawning grounds. They rely solely on fat reserves for energy.”
— PBS
“Salmon do not eat once they have entered fresh water and they leave the ocean heavy with the fats and nutrients that they will subsist on during their freshwater phase.”
— Alaska Seafood Marketing Institute
“The upstream journey of salmon to their spawning grounds may last weeks and cover thousands of kilometer — and they don't eat during the journey.”
— Canadian Museum of Nature
“King salmon are almost nothing like trout or bass. They do not bite like any other fish, in fact, they don't really bite at all. Spawning salmon are in the river only to breed. They do not eat once they hit fresh water.”
— AlaskaKings.com
“Upon entering freshwater, the salmon stop eating altogether and will only strike at other fish or a fisherman’s tackle in aggravation.”
— Fish Alaska Magazine
“In the preparation for spawning the digestive system atrophies so as to make continued existence impossible, but the atrophy supplies materials and space for gametes, and unburdens the fish of extra weight, unnecessary to the single reproductive effort, in its upstream journey. The mouth of the male undergoes changes which aid the fish in sexual combat, but make it unfit for the efficient ingestion of food.”
— George Williams quoted by Andrew Hendry, Asst. Professor of Biology at McGill University
“As salmon swim upstream to spawn, they stop eating and darken, and their jaws hook.”
— U.S. Forest Service
“Adult salmon returning to spawn do not eat but instead tap into fat and muscle energy reserves built up during several years in the ocean.”
— Seattle.gov
http://www.seattle.gov/util/About_SP...U01_002756.asp
“Once they begin their spawn these fish stop eating and will eventually die.”
— Trout’s Fly Fishing
“Salmon do not usually feed after entering freshwater and severe atrophy of the digestive system sets in before spawning begins.”
— U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service (1982)
“Once adult salmon begin this arduous return journey, they stop eating entirely. Using stored energy, they battle their way upstream.”
— Idaho Rivers United
-
Question for Dave.
You say when a steelhead enters fresh water it loses the ability to digest food! So when a summer-run enters its home river in June and swims around for lets say 9/10 months before the spawn they can't digest food? Just living on fat reserves, Really? I have caught a lot of steelhead in my time and have seen some weird things in the stomachs. From smolts, fry, worms, bugs, cig butts, eggs, gravel and artificial baits. Plus there is always something going towards their sh*ter!
Please post the info that you studied / read this from.
Thanks, I need a good read!
Wait, a fish enters fresh water in June and then swims around just hanging out 9/10 months until January or February before they spawn?
That is a steelhead though.
-
I didn't know steelhead stayed in there that long but a quick search says that steelhead do eat at least some in freshwater, especially summer run and when the water is warmer.
-
All of them quotes cover salmon Dave not steelhead, I've found all sorts of things in their stomachs and by the sounds of it so have others
I think that suggests that they do eat in freshwater and I don't see why the stomach contents wouldn't be digested, steelhead are repeat spawners unlike pacific salmon they wouldn't survive the lengthy stay in fresh and journey back to sea without feeding.
-
All of them quotes cover salmon Dave not steelhead, I've found all sorts of things in their stomachs and by the sounds of it so have others
I think that suggests that they do eat in freshwater and I don't see why the stomach contents wouldn't be digested, steelhead are repeat spawners unlike pacific salmon they wouldn't survive the lengthy stay in fresh and journey back to sea without feeding.
Spawning steelhead undergo the same physiological changes as spawning salmon. Yes they eat things but because of these changes they cannot digest them. Next time you kill a hatchery steelhead, notice how hard and atrophied the stomach and pyloric caeca are … compare that to the soft and elastic stomach tissue of say, a lake rainbow trout, pikeminnow, etc.
-
Thanks for the Salmon Info Dave. That was much appreciated! Now lets get back to Steelhead!
How does a summer-run survive all that time in fresh water? They must go in a hypnotic state "trance" like sturgeon do in the winter.
Oh ya, I forgot that I killed one with a bullhead in its stomach!
Dave, have you killed a Steelhead in the Salt H2O and compare the tissue samples with one that was caught in fresh water?
-
Wait, a fish enters fresh water in June and then swims around just hanging out 9/10 months until January or February before they spawn?
That is a steelhead though.
More like March/April.
-
Thanks for the Salmon Info Dave. That was much appreciated! Now lets get back to Steelhead!
How does a summer-run survive all that time in fresh water? They must go in a hypnotic state "trance" like sturgeon do in the winter.
Oh ya, I forgot that I killed one with a bullhead in its stomach!
Pacific salmon are the same genus as steelhead, and if the sculpin you found in a steelhead was even partially digested that would be relevant. Was it?
OK, let's try a different tact. If upstream migrating steelhead are able to digest food that means stomach excretions and enzymes are active … that also means an empty stomach would trigger a feeling of hunger and a search for food. Consider the Vedder gets a few thousand steelhead annually, average weight about 12 lbs; what do you think these fish would survive on if they had to rely on catching food?
If steelhead were indeed actively feeding and digesting what they captured, none would make it above the gauntlet of anglers and these fish would be long extinct. Being able to survive upstream migration without eating is a tactic that has worked for a long time for anadromous species.
Sure, it's hard to believe these fish survive for months without added nutrients, and may be a reason return spawners are very low in numbers, but it's true. It's much like how does a Stuart sockeye swim all that way up the Fraser simply by surviving on fat reserves?
-
Actually summer steelhead caught in the wild and brought into a holding facility can be easily trained to feed on salmon eggs and then hatchery food.
After spawning they can be held and fed for another year and then spawned again.
Wild winter steelhead can also be trained to fed in captivity and I believe this practice aids their survival chances when released post spawn.
-
As for the sculpin. It sure was in the process of being digested!
Pacific Salmon are the same genus as steelhead! Come on Dave, that has been proven false already! I am not trying to belittle you but you might want to do a search under Oncorhynchus Mykiss. If anything a Steelhead is more of a relative to the Atlantic Salmon than the Pacific species! I am not on here to make bs up. The facts are out there.
Get your mind off of the Vedder Winter-Runs and think about the summer-runs. To different species but with the same DNA traits.
Dave, will a summer-run spawn with a winter-run when they are prevalent in the same river system?
PS I am shocked the Boss hasn't blocked my posts already!
-
Actually summer steelhead caught in the wild and brought into a holding facility can be easily trained to feed on salmon eggs and then hatchery food.
After spawning they can be held and fed for another year and then spawned again.
Wild winter steelhead can also be trained to fed in captivity and I believe this practice aids their survival chances when released post spawn.
Thank you bederko!
-
Actually summer steelhead caught in the wild and brought into a holding facility can be easily trained to feed on salmon eggs and then hatchery food.
After spawning they can be held and fed for another year and then spawned again.
Wild winter steelhead can also be trained to fed in captivity and I believe this practice aids their survival chances when released post spawn.
That is news to me bederko. Any links or further information??
-
Here's a link to an abstract of a related paper. You'll have to go to a library or buy it online if you want to read the whole thing. What I gather is that there is some "shut down" of the digestive system of steelhead. A partially digested sculpin could have been in a summer run's stomach for who knows how long. Anyway, I think Dave is partially right and bederko indicates that steelhead can make use of food to some extent. According to the paper, they recover rapidly after spawning and then start feeding. Everyone knows how voracious a kelt is.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11160-013-9338-2#page-1
-
Here's a link to an abstract of a related paper. You'll have to go to a library or buy it online if you want to read the whole thing. What I gather is that there is some "shut down" of the digestive system of steelhead. A partially digested sculpin could have been in a summer run's stomach for who knows how long. Anyway, I think Dave is partially right and bederko indicates that steelhead can make use of food to some extent. According to the paper, they recover rapidly after spawning and then start feeding. Everyone knows how voracious a kelt is.
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11160-013-9338-2#page-1
More good sleuthing!!
-
As for the sculpin. It sure was in the process of being digested!
Pacific Salmon are the same genus as steelhead!
Get your mind off of the Vedder Winter-Runs and think about the summer-runs. To different species but with the same DNA traits.
No, same species (Onchorhychus mykiss ;)), just a different life history and run timing. I have a friend and fellow FWR contributor who fishes the Stamp, a system with both summers and winters .. he may want to respond to your question regarding spawning between the two.
You may recall this thread was started with my opening the stomach of a Vedder winter run, but your inclusion of summer runs is good.
-
Feeding summer runs was a personal project I experimented with. The fish were brought into the hatchery in Sept.- Oct. and were extremely thin by spawning in Feb. - Mar. We also had problems with fungus and I couldn't see how a fish could fight infection without nutrition so I started feeding them surplus F.V. trout eggs. ( post malachite era) Within a few weeks you could literally feed them out of your hand. Reddish fish poo had to be brushed through the drain daily. I don't know if the colour indicates partial digestion or not but I can say that the condition factor of the fish increased greatly. Egg survival remained the same for both fed and unfed fish but there was a reduction in fungus problems for fed fish. Because of the success of this experiment, not in egg survival but in fish health appearance we started feeding winter runs and cutthroat.
As for summer winter cross breeding There wouldn't be summer winter fish if they cross bred in the wild.
-
Pacific Salmon are the same genus as steelhead! Come on Dave, that has been proven false already! I am not trying to belittle you but you might want to do a search under Oncorhynchus Mykiss. If anything a Steelhead is more of a relative to the Atlantic Salmon than the Pacific species! I am not on here to make bs up. The facts are out there.
You might want to check up on that again.
-
Feeding summer runs was a personal project I experimented with. The fish were brought into the hatchery in Sept.- Oct. and were extremely thin by spawning in Feb. - Mar. We also had problems with fungus and I couldn't see how a fish could fight infection without nutrition so I started feeding them surplus F.V. trout eggs. ( post malachite era) Within a few weeks you could literally feed them out of your hand. Reddish fish poo had to be brushed through the drain daily. I don't know if the colour indicates partial digestion or not but I can say that the condition factor of the fish increased greatly. Egg survival remained the same for both fed and unfed fish but there was a reduction in fungus problems for fed fish. Because of the success of this experiment, not in egg survival but in fish health appearance we started feeding winter runs and cutthroat.
As for summer winter cross breeding There wouldn't be summer winter fish if they cross bred in the wild.
Excellent info M :D What stock? And wouldn't it be great to have the resources today to do more of those experiments ..
-
You might want to check up on that again.
i'm glad the boss did some research!
-
i'm glad the boss did some research!
No research was needed...
-
So, back on topic ... please report what you find in the stomachs of any hatchery steelhead killed in the next few months :)
-
Sorry Dave, with so few of them out there, if I luck out and get one, I will be releasing it so someone else has a chance to play with it, bonk it and examine its stomach's contents.
-
Pacific Salmon are the same genus as steelhead! Come on Dave, that has been proven false already! I am not trying to belittle you but you might want to do a search under Oncorhynchus Mykiss. If anything a Steelhead is more of a relative to the Atlantic Salmon than the Pacific species! I am not on here to make bs up. The facts are out there.
Actually, the steelhead was classified as genus Salmo for a while thanks to Scottish naturalist Sir John Richardson who received a sample from the Columbia in 1836 until genetic studies in the 1980s show them to be closer to Pacific salmon and they were moved back to the genus Orcorhynchus where German naturalist Johann Walbaum had originally placed it in 1792 when he first found it in Russia's Kamchatka.
-
Sorry for hijacking your thread again Dave. Here's a link to an interesting paper about spawning salmon feeding on eggs.
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/F09-103 (http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/F09-103)
Ok, back on topic ... please report what you find in the stomachs of any hatchery steelhead killed in the next few months :)
-
Sorry for hijacking your thread again Dave. Here's a link to an interesting paper about spawning salmon feeding on eggs.
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/F09-103 (http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/F09-103)
Ok, back on topic ... please report what you find in the stomachs of any hatchery steelhead killed in the next few months :)
A hijack like this is well worth it firebird! Great information I was unaware of.
I bow to you greyghost ;)
-
Let's also remember that as cold blooded animals, fish in the winter with really cold waters will have a metabolism that moves as fast as a slug surrounded by salt. Naturally they will eat less and digest what they do eat more slowly. Just part of who they are.
-
The fish I whacked last Saturday had absolutely nothing in her belly,but that's a lower river January fish.
I've always been intrigued with what the fish are eating and check the stomachs of all I keep.
Usually the later season and further up river fish have more food inside based on my observations.
Years ago when we were allowed 2 hatch steelies as a daily retention I caught a 12lb hatch Doe and on the next cast I caught a buck about the same size.The buck had roe in it's belly but my hook was in a swivel in the mouth of the buck attached to a leader wrapped around a corkie inside.
A couple seasons ago I had 5 misses on bugs and on the 6th bite I set the hook and landed a 13ishlber with 5 of my bugs in its belly
-
Lots of postulations to answer a specific question: do steelhead (and,as a sidebar, salmon) feed in fresh water? While this is a fair question, the bigger point unequivocally remains- that steelhead (and salmon) may or may not feed, but they do bite, and, at times, rather actively, on a variety of things. And they most often do so in the period before or after I get there. ;D
So for whatever motivation they bite, I'm glad they do, if for no other reason to be part of the sounds, sights, and camaraderie of the river.
-
They certainly eat while they are in freshwater, whether that is due to protecting their eggs/redds or to feed some people will argue.
However, most researchers believe that steelhead do in fact feed while in freshwater. In order for a steelhead to stay in the system for 6+months, and be able to survive and return to the ocean, it seems plausible that they need to feed
-
Cleaned a nice doe today and she was as empty as Rob Fords bank account. ;D
-
Cleaned a nice doe today and she was as empty as Rob Fords bank account. ;D
LOL!!
-
I watched a great video once, of winter Steelhead actively feeding on mayflies, and fly anglers catching them. So it does happen. I looked for the vid but I can't find it
-
No need for the bow Dave. Carry on guys/gals, the info is out there! Haven't been around way to busy, fishing!
-
but they do bite, and, at times, rather actively, on a variety of things. And they most often do so in the period before or after I get there. ;D
LOL... You too?
-
I watched a great video once, of winter Steelhead actively feeding on mayflies, and fly anglers catching them. So it does happen. I looked for the vid but I can't find it
yes sir. raising the ghost.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOLKPSVS1Ug
-
Holy crap...what a video. I'm stoked. Thanks for posting it, Banx!
-
I think those are summer run steelhead in the vid, not winters.
-
one tryed to eat my float this morning!
-
one tryed to eat my float this morning!
I remember when I was a kid fishing the Vedder, very early sixties. Back then it was very common for soldiers in the nearby Army base to sneak away for a few casts, or to fish on their lunch breaks , done so in full uniform …their Sargent Major, a present Vedder River legend and master BS’er, was one of them!
Anyway, I was fishing the boomsticks around noonish one day and sure enough a bunch of Army guys arrived. Well, one of these guys chucked out his gear and sure enough a steelhead came up and grabbed his float … back then the floats used were huge balsa wood monstrosities with big sticks to hold the line tight to the wood … anyway, a great fight ensued and the fish was eventually killed (no fish were released in those days) because this fish was not able to dislodge the float stick from its mouth.
Back to subject :D
-
I remember when I was a kid fishing the Vedder, very early sixties. Back then it was very common for soldiers in the nearby Army base to sneak away for a few casts, or to fish on their lunch breaks , done so in full uniform …their Sargent Major, a present Vedder River legend and master BS’er, was one of them!
Anyway, I was fishing the boomsticks around noonish one day and sure enough a bunch of Army guys arrived. Well, one of these guys chucked out his gear and sure enough a steelhead came up and grabbed his float … back then the floats used were huge balsa wood monstrosities with big sticks to hold the line tight to the wood … anyway, a great fight ensued and the fish was eventually killed (no fish were released in those days) because this fish was not able to dislodge the float stick from its mouth.
Back to subject :D
I had a large steelhead on the Vedder do that to me 2 years ago.
Fishing pockets and missed a good hit...
Went back through the same pocket and had a 14+ fish smoke my float. I ended up fighting the doe for 3 or so mins and got it right to the beach before she finally spat my float back at me. I was pretty shocked she held onto it for that long, but maybe as you said it could have actually gotten stuck in her mouth.
This was in April though, late April in 20+C, so understandable it would come up to the top.
-
I never get sick of listening to your stories. :o
-
yes sir. raising the ghost.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOLKPSVS1Ug
Thanks banx,
That's the video I was thinking of, but for some reason I remembered them being winters. Cool vid none the less.