Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Suther on September 28, 2013, 11:20:11 PM
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So I'm curious about fish hooks. I'm new-again to fishing, and was too young to know there were different kinds of hooks when I got out of it before.
What are the different hooks used for? I have o'shaunassey, octopus, kahle, and baitholder hooks (they came in a pack) and some random standard hooks.
What do people use for salmon? I assume different species require different sized hooks as well? From what I've read, 1/0 is a good choice for chum? (that's what I'm about to go after...)
I have done some reading, and can't come up with anything conclusive right now. Help is appreciated!
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I'm no expert and have yet to land a big spring.. but have caught all the other types of salmon and generally fished the popular lower mainland flows (Vedder, Stave, Tidal Fraser etc). Float, spinning and bar fishing. No ocean experience.
In the beginning 1, or 1/0. Now I've gone smaller. I've gotten use to using size 2 hooks with roe, size 1 with blades I make, and when I tie jigs I think they're 1/0. I think size 2 is small enough for clear water and big enough for the salmon I target/catch.
Though I like to be "stealthy"... and care most about coho. Chum and pinks when they're biting are pretty aggressive so I think 1 or 1/0 for them is fine.. I have inadvertently caught some pretty big chum plunking with roe on #2 hooks though, but I almost exclusively use jigs for them and Bent Rods jigs are 1/0 thick gauge sickle hooks (awesome hook).
Types of hooks I think are personal preference and what you have most confidence in. I don't cheap out on hooks or leader material.
I was using size 2 matzuo sickle hooks but broke quite a few of them. I still have quite a few, but have zero confidence in them so not using them anymore.
Now I'm a big fan of Owner brand #2 cutting point hooks, and Mustad Ultrapoint Siwash #1 for all my lures. YMMV and like I said, no expert.
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Second that on Owner hooks. Well constructed. IMHO if you're using quality hooks then #1(Chums,Springs)and #2(Cohos) are all you need.
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Number 2 gamies are the best
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Number 2 gamies are the best
X2 they are working well for me this year kinda tried out different hooks last season but came back to gamies.
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Kind of off topic but when you guys sharpen your hooks do you sharpen away from hook point or towards?
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Towards
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Away, unless its really bad, then towards followed by away.
So a size 2 hook should be strong enough? I have read stuff about chums straightening 1 or even 1/0 hooks..? Also, what style? Most people using Siwash? I just happen to have a bunch of octopus hooks, any reason I dont wanna use them?
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So a size 2 hook should be strong enough? I have read stuff about chums straightening 1 or even 1/0 hooks..? Also, what style? Most people using Siwash? I just happen to have a bunch of octopus hooks, any reason I dont wanna use them?
No problem at all with octopus hooks especially for float/drifting; its what most people use. Siwash usually used for spinners and lures.
Use a high quality hook and its nearly impossible that a chum is going to straighten it. Your leader will break long before the hook fails unless its defective. The only issue I've ever had was with thinner wire flyhooks.
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Away, unless its really bad, then towards followed by away.
So a size 2 hook should be strong enough? I have read stuff about chums straightening 1 or even 1/0 hooks..? Also, what style? Most people using Siwash? I just happen to have a bunch of octopus hooks, any reason I dont wanna use them?
Towards vs away for sharpening? Why does it matter??? The way I was shown was to hold the hook at the bend and file/sharpen UP towards the eye of the hook. I don't know if this is the correct way to do it but I seem to have no issues resharpening a hook that has been dulled and making it "sticky sharp" again.
I have heard some ppl say you want to sharpen a hook DOWN away from the eye as that is the same direction a fish will be going on the hook point. I say BS! Either the hook is sharp after you finish with it or it isn't.
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Towards vs away for sharpening? Why does it matter??? The way I was shown was to hold the hook at the bend and file/sharpen UP towards the eye of the hook. I don't know if this is the correct way to do it but I seem to have no issues resharpening a hook that has been dulled and making it "sticky sharp" again.
I have heard some ppl say you want to sharpen a hook DOWN away from the eye as that is the same direction a fish will be going on the hook point. I say BS! Either the hook is sharp after you finish with it or it isn't.
Actually with some thought, I have changed my mind on which way to sharpen. Go towards the point. When sharpening axes, you run a file towards and across the blade. When sharpening a kitchen knife on a steel(long skinny sharpener), you sharpen towards the blade. I figure fish hooks should be done the same.
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Though I like to be "stealthy"... and care most about coho. Chum and pinks when they're biting are pretty aggressive so I think 1 or 1/0 for them is fine.. I have inadvertently caught some pretty big chum plunking with roe on #2 hooks though, but I almost exclusively use jigs for them and Bent Rods jigs are 1/0 thick gauge sickle hooks (awesome hook).
These are great hooks, they are what i use to tie my own jigs with. I use size 2 1 1/0 for jigs. I believe rod even uses size 1 maybe even a two. Depending on what one it is and the target species.
When i'm using roe its owner for me. But i have strictly fished jigs this year, as tying them myself is an addiction in itself.
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These are great hooks, they are what i use to tie my own jigs with. I use size 2 1 1/0 for jigs. I believe rod even uses size 1 maybe even a two. Depending on what one it is and the target species.
When i'm using roe its owner for me. But i have strictly fished jigs this year, as tying them myself is an addiction in itself.
Yeah love the Bent Rod Sickle Hooks.
That's what compelled me to try sickle hooks for other applications, but be careful. The Matzuo ones, you find at Berry's for example, break very easily. They were #2 and 1's and I had them break while fighting fish 3 times and twice really easily pulling on a snag (...which was good, but real easy). I noticed though that the ones on sale now have a curve vs a sharp angle at the bottom of the gap, so maybe that corrected the problem. Whatever though, going Owner whenever I can.
How are the jigs working out for coho? I caught just as many on jigs last year as on roe....but I have better roe this year.
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Second that on Owner hooks. Well constructed. IMHO if you're using quality hooks then #1(Chums,Springs)and #2(Cohos) are all you need.
X2. Using owners cutting point and super needle point hooks last 3 years. Didn't have single problem. In my opinion, they are way better then Gami.
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Maruto sickle barbless hooks, best hooks I've used by far.
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Maruto sickle barbless hooks, best hooks I've used by far.
I use to love the matzou sickle hooks, but found I bent a lot of them out in anything less than a size 1/0.
Switched to the octopus style hooks they have and haven't looked back.
Incredibly sharp, awesome shape, and great holding power. I also like the large eye which makes it easy to put as a stinger hook on flies when in smaller sizes!
Only problem is the tips are fragile, so if you hit bottom the tip can bend in a little. I tend to bend it back without any problems though, and haven't lost a fish because of it.
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Short shank hooks can be lighter wire than long shank hooks. I've hooked and landed 30 pound salmon on #6 trout hooks but that would not be my first choice. The #2 Gammies should land anything you might hook, but a lot depends on where you are fishing and how much pressure you have to put on a fish. Traditionally, salmon and steelhead are NOT hook shy, so choose the hook that suits the lure. Hook shape has a lot more to do with landing fish than most anglers know. I will not use a turned up eye hook unless I can tie the leader to the shank of the hook. For my steelhead or salmon flies I prefer #4 or#2 heavy wire hooks. I prefer hooks with long points. Short point barbless hooks tend to fall out during a fight. If you tie your leader to the eye of a turned up eye hook then you will lose 30% more fish. I've done thousands of tests to prove it.
Like others here have mentioned, I hone my hooks until they stick in my fingernail. I triangulate the bevels. I use a diamond grit hone sharpener.
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I would recommend use of brand name high quality hooks for all fishing as using the right type of hooks for a given condition would lead to better hook up and landing ratios IMO. For float fishing I use either Owner or Gammie octopus hooks. Coho mostly size 4 to 2, steelhead from size 2 to 1/0 depending on size of bait or artificial, spring size 1 to 2/0. For spoons and spinners, I use Gammie siwash in sizes 2 to 2/0 depending on lure size: 3/16 oz. #2, 1/4~3/8 oz. #1, 2/5~2/3 oz. #1/0, 3/4~1 oz. #2/0. Just need to remember to off set it a little to improve hook sets.
For fly fishing I try to fit my patterns onto short shank hooks like Daiichi 2450 if possible as I have found that long shank hooks, although they make beautiful flies, are often leveraged by salmon to escape.
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I use to love the matzou sickle hooks, but found I bent a lot of them out in anything less than a size 1/0.
Switched to the octopus style hooks they have and haven't looked back.
Incredibly sharp, awesome shape, and great holding power. I also like the large eye which makes it easy to put as a stinger hook on flies when in smaller sizes!
Only problem is the tips are fragile, so if you hit bottom the tip can bend in a little. I tend to bend it back without any problems though, and haven't lost a fish because of it.
no not the matzuo, MARUTO, their what they call semi barbless and and strong hooks not cheap garbage like the matzuo, only hook i'll use.
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Can you use a hook that originally has a barb on it and barb filed or removed. And would 6-0 Gamakatsu octopus work?
Thanks
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I like Vision Canada, Gamakatsu and Mustad.
Only use octopus/salmon hooks and open eye siwash hooks.
I'm my opinion all other hook types are just a fad.
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Can you use a hook that originally has a barb on it and barb filed or removed. And would 6-0 Gamakatsu octopus work?
Thanks
DFO says as long as you crimp it with pliers so the barb is flush with the shank, you're good to go.
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I think 6/0 is a size better suited to bar fishing. I agree with the rest as far as size is concerned- sizes 2, 1, and 1/0 are my favourites. Octopus style in Owner and Gammies for me, although chums do not need finesse hooks or top-notch gear. Chum gear needs to be strong.
As for the bending out of hooks, here's some thoughts:
1) you could be horsing in the fish. Check your drag. This is common with those who are getting used to braided line.
2) check the wire strength of the hook. Some are fine wire, others 2x and 3x strong. It should be on the package label. I prefer 2x strong, as a hook that is too thick-wired creates more resistance when setting the hook. Think syringe needles; a fine- gauge needle goes in my arm (butt, etc.) easily, but bends once I start jumping around. A heavier-gauge needle is more difficult to penetrate the skin and takes one of those hefty nurses to use (Nurse Helga Bagahammers), but stays straight throughout the battle.
Yeah, it's just like that. Now I feel faint. I'm gonna lie down. I hate needles.
Hope this helps.
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I think 6/0 is a size better suited to bar fishing. I agree with the rest as far as size is concerned- sizes 2, 1, and 1/0 are my favourites. Octopus style in Owner and Gammies for me, although chums do not need finesse hooks or top-notch gear. Chum gear needs to be strong.
I new to this so my questions may seem silly or absurd.
Why so small with hook size, are you trying to hide the hook?
Considering they are a decent size fish with a huge mouth on them.
thanks
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I new to this so my questions may seem silly or absurd.
Why so small with hook size, are you trying to hide the hook?
Considering they are a decent size fish with a huge mouth on them.
thanks
Because bigger hooks get more hookups. The bigger the better and just let 'er rrrrrip! ::)
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Because bigger hooks get more hookups. The bigger the better and just let 'er rrrrrip! ::)
hungry6 is from Australia, where larger hooks are almost always used for big pelagic species, so he is unfamiliar what are being used for salmon in the Pacific Northwest, where he plans to visit next year.
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Thank you Rodney.
Like I said, my question might seem silly. Anyhow, my tackle arrangement is fairly vast to say the least.
But I don't want to over pack and I'm just curious as to hook size. I can understand the sentiments of "snagging" when I mention larger hook size. For a travelling sport fisher "snagging" goes against the grain of our mentality.
As Rodney mentioned, here in the sub tropic and a few other places around the world, pelagic of around 10-15kgs have hardened gill rakes and boney jaw arrangement which requires good solid hooks to penetrate the jaw. An average 6.0 hook sometime, actually a lot of time will be straighten in no time.
Something like this
https://www.dropbox.com/sc/voaavi9n6a00j2s/77haurox3v (https://www.dropbox.com/sc/voaavi9n6a00j2s/77haurox3v)
will straighten out a 6.0 no problem. We encounter these pretty much every trip and they travel with Yellow tail kings, the target species.
As for the visit, I'm doing as much background search as possible, hopefully meet a few local learn from them and try to make an annual thing out of it.
Anyway, I'm all packed and loaded for a couple of weeks of fishing on Fraser Is. tomorrow morning. Hopefully the teethy pelagics are out and I will get some photos of what we're talking about.
Thanks
Wayne
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That's a big fish. What kind of fish is that? I can see why a #2 isn't going to get you very far down under lol
Sadly the water is too damn cold to get very many fish that big up here. They exist but they are the rare fish not the daily catch.
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That's a big fish. What kind of fish is that? I can see why a #2 isn't going to get you very far down under lol
Sadly the water is too damn cold to get very many fish that big up here. They exist but they are the rare fish not the daily catch.
That's a amberjack AKA submarine. usual fight time of 45-1hr on 30lb and 10kgs stand up gear.
They're not even the main culprit of busting gear. Its just happen they swim with Yellow tail king so they do come up, no one eat them.
I'm of to Fraser now, will try and put up some photo when I'm back. see you then boys.