Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: IronNoggin on June 19, 2013, 01:30:32 PM
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In a year we are witnessing the lowest return numbers of springs recorded to the Stamp River, DFO once again has stepped forward to Prove It's Collective INSANITY! :'(
http://www.cheknews.ca/?bckey=AQ~~%2CAAAA4mHNTzE~%2CejlzBnGUUKY1gXVPwEwEepl35Y795rND&bclid=975107450001&bctid=2488225363001
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what a waste of money. :(
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More like what sheer arrogance and butt-covering by so called "management".
The fish are being offered as a "Gift" and could REALLY help us through the damn tough times we are currently facing down. Tough Times directly due to that same peculiar form of "management" btw... ::)
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couple of tings buddy
* A hatchery is basically a fish farm.
some people don't like hatcheries on rivers
* As you would of noticed the fish were being raised in a form of pool/tank on land for less than 2 years.
unlike fish farms where they dump pretty scarry stuff right into the local area waters for as long and for as many fish as they are frankenfarming
* Why you not like them releasing these fish ......because they are raised for free?
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couple of tings buddy
* A hatchery is basically a fish farm.
some people don't like hatcheries on rivers
* As you would of noticed the fish were being raised in a form of pool/tank on land for less than 2 years.
unlike fish farms where they dump pretty scarry stuff right into the local area waters for as long and for as many fish as they are frankenfarming
* Why you not like them releasing these fish ......because they are raised for free?
Thanks for explaining that to him troutbreath.
I suppose what he would rather see is having these fish dropped into open ocean pens where they could be held for a year or 2 longer, polluting the ocean, spreading sea lice to wild fish and then harvested and sold as an inferior product, bought by an unsuspecting public.
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Thanks TB, good points. I will address below.
A hatchery is not basically a fish farm. There's a big difference between raising fish for food, and raising fish for intended release. A farm is a farm, regardless of whether it is on land or at sea. If you want to raise fish for food, you are selecting for different characteristics than you would if you are intending to produce fish that will adapt well to a natural environment. No different than releasing a few nice big grain fed cows into the Northern BC forest to fend for themselves. They may do very well when eating out of a trough, but they don't have the genetics to do well when out in the wild. Take a look at anything we cultivate for food and see how closely it resembles the wild form (sheep, cows, strawberries, chickens). Very different than what we would do if the intention was producing a creature for release into the wild.
Fish farms (like Omega) will select for certain characteristics. Not uncommon to breed a few large males with many females to try to produce bigger, faster growing fish. Nothing wrong with that at all if your intention is big fish for market. If you're releasing fish into the wild in the hopes they come back and spawn, it's probably better to not have a few thousand brothers and sisters courting each other back on the grounds.
I've got little issue with releasing these fish, but for the proponent to be touting it as the saving grace of the Alberni Inlet Chinook stock is quite misguided. These things will be seal bait.I see no benefit to releasing them, and some (admittedly low) risk to wild stocks from this action. I primarily have issue with the misrepresentation of the situation by the proponent, and the (not unexpected) take of this thing hook line and sinker by the (supposedly) anti farming crowd, who are now apparently in full support of releasing farmed Chinook into the wild to intermingle with their wild brethren.
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A hatchery is not basically a fish farm...... A farm is a farm...... Fish farms (like Omega) will select for certain characteristics........ These things will be seal bait.
Wow is that the best you've got? Rather than making all your unsubstantiated assumptions, you would be best advised to back up some of your ramble with a little science.
As I've said before you need to read more than just the feedlot sponsored websites.
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DFO has outlived it's usefulness.
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Yeah, you were right on this one, nibbles.....so right! As expected, Noggin and many others (not just antis) took this news story as gospel and did not look a little more into it to see what the real story was. Matt, I am surprised that you took the media story at face value without looking more into it. As usual, the media only tells part of the story. However, in fairness to the lynch mob, I agree that the bureaucrats did a poor job with communicating this to the public. The media basically filled in the gaps which I can't really blame them if the department is going to leave a void. When there is an absence of information then there will always be someone to fill in the gaps.
AF, you do not stand a chance debating with nibbles on this issue. You run the risk of sinking again...this time it will be a doozy. I agree with nibbles that your continued ignorance is mind boggling. Even if he did show you a little science you would dismiss it because you have already labelled him a fish farm supporter; however, if you actually read (difficult for you, I realize) what he posted he is providing you a balanced and reasonable explanation. By all means be critical about poor communication from the department, but I recommend to you and to others to listen to what nibbles has to say.
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I don't think anyones taking that clip as gospel....maybe if it was on fox news ;) and it's pretty obvious this is a different scenario than an open pen fishfarm. I don't think you need to be a fan OR an opponent of farms to realize that it is exactly that, "a drop in the bucket" if these fish are released. at least the people working there would have a feeling of accomplishment, having raised and then sending them out. euthanizing them would be a waste of funds and time on a few levels.
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I don't think anyones taking that clip as gospel....maybe if it was on fox news ;)
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Yeah, you were right on this one, nibbles.....so right! As expected, Noggin and many others (not just antis) took this news story as gospel and did not look a little more into it to see what the real story was. Matt, I am surprised that you took the media story at face value without looking more into it. As usual, the media only tells part of the story. However, in fairness to the lynch mob, I agree that the bureaucrats did a poor job with communicating this to the public. The media basically filled in the gaps which I can't really blame them if the department is going to leave a void. When there is an absence of information then there will always be someone to fill in the gaps.
AF, you do not stand a chance debating with nibbles on this issue. You run the risk of sinking again...this time it will be a doozy. I agree with nibbles that your continued ignorance is mind boggling. Even if he did show you a little science you would dismiss it because you have already labelled him a fish farm supporter; however, if you actually read (difficult for you, I realize) what he posted he is providing you a balanced and reasonable explanation. By all means be critical about poor communication from the department, but I recommend to you and to others to listen to what nibbles has to say.
You've slipped a long ways since you first came on this forum preaching the feedlot propaganda. Now you're supporting the nonsense being posted by dnibbles and sounding more and more like a schoolyard bully.
I realize that I've likely contributed to your slide by bringing, truth and transparency to the discussion..... for that I cannot apologize. ::)
The best I can suggest is perhaps you take a little time off to recoup before coming back with more feedlot propaganda. ;D
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I realize that I've likely contributed to your slide by bringing, truth and transparency to the discussion..... for that I cannot apologize. ::)
That might be the most ridiculous statement you have posted (and you've posted some beauties ..)
I sometimes wonder if you know what nibs and Steve do for a living :o
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That might be the most ridiculous statement you have posted (and you've posted some beauties ..)
I sometimes wonder if you know what nibs and Steve do for a living :o
I guess I don't hold a person's vocation in as high esteem as you seem to.... I pay closer attention to a person's agenda.
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... As expected, Noggin and many others (not just antis) took this news story as gospel and did not look a little more into it to see what the real story was. Matt, I am surprised that you took the media story at face value without looking more into it.
Actually I have been aware of both the developing situation and the background behind it for better than a year now. I would strongly suggest you (and your compatriot) do a little digging of your own before suggesting I (and other locals) are simply and blindly jumping on a media bandwagon.
These are NOT "farmed fish" in any sense beyond being reared for 2 years in the facility they are being reared in. The broodstock for these fish was EXACTLY the same as those employed by Robertson Creek Hatchery - the Federal facility on the same system. They are NOT the progeny of some type of stock mutated as suggested for market performance. In fact they carry the exact same genetic make-up as those released annually by Robertson Creek.
As for nibbles comments regarding intermingling with "wild" fish and obvious disregard for the potential of this experiment to positively effect Alberni Chinook production, here are a couple points to consider:
The Stamp system has been the focus of enhancement for chinook for decades now, and as of the past 10 or so years, has been directly managed towards an escapement barely sufficient to meet hatchery requirements. DFO itself has publicly employed the excuse for doing so that "there is no significant wild component contributing to recruitment" on a repetitive basis. Genetic studies of the stock in question well suggest that every individual chinook in the system now indicate influence from the hatchery (drift). Under these circumstances, I have to wonder just WHAT "wild brethren" he might be referring to? ::)
The current practice of releasing first year smolts at ~ 3 months (Robertson Creek) has developed into something approaching a futile effort. Survival rates have dropped to 0.5% and below for subsequent years now, forcing the hatchery to produce ever greater volumes of clones simply to try and get the number of returnees up to something near requirement levels.
Should the 2 year freshwater experiment result in substantially increased survival, and subsequent return rates (as it has proven to in several well documented experiments south of the line), it could well provide the template for addressing those ever decreasing survival rates from our hatchery production coast-wide. And that of course has some pretty damn good potential for positively influencing the floundering chinook populations in the Alberni system and elsewhere.
As suggested, perhaps it would be a rather good idea for all of us to look a little more into the background of such situations before firing off "armchair biologist" comments from afar...
More on the issue from last night's news: http://www.cheknews.ca/?bckey=AQ~~%2CAAAA4mHNTzE~%2CejlzBnGUUKY1gXVPwEwEepl35Y795rND&bclid=975107450001&bctid=2492167722001
Cheers,
Nog
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"The smolts all come from eggs that were obtained from adult chinook at the Robertson Creek Hatchery."
http://www.avtimes.net/news/local/hatchery-wants-to-donate-65-000-chinook-1.232216
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"armchair biologist"
LOL!
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"A third mechanism that might underlie a foolish bargain in PWS is genetic interaction between hatchery and wild salmon (e.g., Waples 1991), whereby the fitness and productivity of wild stocks are degraded through interbreeding with hatchery stocks. This degradation might occur because hatchery stocks have been artificially selected, intentionally or unintentionally".
http://www.sf.adfg.state.ak.us/fedaidpdfs/AFRB.04.1.075-078.pdf
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As was suggested, there is much more to this than the DFO simply refusing a new idea that will "save the Chinook stocks". Unfortunately, browsing a newspaper report doesn't even begin to touch on the real issues.
The Omega fish may have their origins in RC stock but they don't come from fresh egg takes every year from a diverse selection of broodstock. They come from a captive broodstock that has been derived from generations of inbreeding and represent a substantially narrowed genetic library developed from hatchery acclimatized fish, not fish that have proven successful at surviving in the wild.
Releasing these fish is nothing more than a band aid and a very small one at that, a blind shot in the dark that both the commercial and sports fleet support because it has the potential to at least one time put a few more fish on their hooks. Such an outcome would result in further pressure to adopt this model without any consideration of the longer term consequences which might include an acceleration of the rates of decline in survival. It is quite possible that the decline in stock survival is related to the long running hatchery enhancement program and the associated hatchery induced decline in genetic variation that may have removed the genetic traits required to deal with the current ocean environment from the genetic library. The nature of an enhancement program based on S1 stocks would likely result in a much greater genetic narrowing and a much greater risk of stock extinction.
A more rational approach would be to wait for the data to come in from the Sarita river release carried out in April 2011. That should commence this year and will begin to give a clearer picture of the effectiveness of the S1 strategy on survival rates. That would mean a loss of those offered fish (a total of 300 - 900 fish at return) but the reality is that they represent a drop in the bucket in terms of the total releases and in spite of the claims, don't offer any certainty of enhanced survival to return. Should survival be improved, the next step would be to determine how to overcome the genetic issues associated with the program.
Another issue for which the details need to be worked out is how the new strategy will be financed. There isn't a bottomless wallet to pay for salmon enhancement nor an entitlement in the sports and commercial sector for the kind of expenditure required to cover the considerable capital and operating costs of the strategy. The DFO has for decades operated on the principle of optimizing the return from the stocks, a political decision, and spending more than is returned is simply not going to happen no matter how loud the wails about saving our sacred salmon from those end users that benefit from the stocks. Perhaps it is also time for a discussion about how the salmon enhancement program should be financed.
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Some interesting points absolon.
The Omega fish may have their origins in RC stock but they don't come from fresh egg takes every year from a diverse selection of broodstock. They come from a captive broodstock that has been derived from generations of inbreeding and represent a substantially narrowed genetic library developed from hatchery acclimatized fish, not fish that have proven successful at surviving in the wild.
However in this instance, the brood was collected at the same time as all the Robertson fish were a couple falls ago. They were indeed from that particular "fresh egg take" that given year. Given hatchery influence to date, one can indeed concur that there will be some inbreeding in their background. However the brood selected did return on their own, and have therefore met the criteria of "surviving in the wild".
I do hear what you are saying regarding hatcheries and their influence. And, as this case is obviously in the experimental stage, there are risks to be considered. On the other side of the coin, given that the results of maintaining the status quo has not achieved any stellar results as stocks continue to fall along with survival rates, are the associated potential risks significant enough to outweigh doing nothing?
As for funding, that is a viscous little circle. Personally I'd like to see a LOT more emphasis being placed on proper habitat enhancement, and proper "management" of the returning runs, than simply figuring out how to successfully pump out more clones. But then again, I often live in a bit of a Dream World...
Cheers,
Nog
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This offer, though it sounds like helpful, doesn't really do much toward solving any problem and although 60,000 fish sounds significant, the realizable benefits are considerably smaller.
The likeliest upside, given current trends, is the return of about 300 two year ocean fish, the largest part of which will end up on the end of a hook. The upside could be greater or worse, but the probabilities of that decrease sharply as the potential outcome varies from the norm. At this point, it's also a one-off unless Kenny and Schmidt are able to mobilize sufficient support for a repeat. In fact, that is most likely what they will attempt as, rightly or wrongly, they have been pursuing this agenda for many years.
Worse, the release will provide no useful information on the success of the strategy as, unlike the Sarita river case, no effort is being made to monitor the outcome. The natural way of things is that if for any reason the returns are better in 2 or 3 years, the salmon user groups will claim it was this strategy and vociferously insist it be adopted more broadly regardless of what is truly responsible. On the other hand, should there be any negative consequences arising, we all know whose doorstep the user groups will drop the blame on.
This exercise would have considerably more chance of both being permitted and being a useful tool for evaluating this strategy if it were actually constructed as an experiment to test the theory. Unfortunately, it isn't; it is just a dump of fish that proponents blindly hope will save the stock. The fish aren't being tagged so no monitoring of the outcome is possible. On the other hand, the Sarita project (http://www.mainstreamcanada.ca/new-hope-sarita-chinook-thanks-salmon-farmers) did tag the fish and is monitoring the return and will contribute to the evaluation of this strategy.
Omega stepped up to make that project happen, as did Mainstream, Creative, Grieg and Marine Harvest. Perhaps this release could be reorganized along similar lines, this time perhaps financed by the sport fishing groups that are so loudly touting it and that will realize the benefit from it. If that were done, the chances of approval would likely increase considerably.
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Omega stepped up to make that project happen, as did Mainstream, Creative, Grieg and Marine Harvest. Perhaps this release could be reorganized along similar lines, this time perhaps financed by the sport fishing groups that are so loudly touting it and that will realize the benefit from it. If that were done, the chances of approval would likely increase considerably.
Now that seems like an idea that should be pursued. Great opportunity for some angling groups to step forward and partner, at least a bit, with aquaculture. A winner for both sides, imo.
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Great opportunity for some angling groups to step forward and partner, at least a bit, with aquaculture. A winner for both sides, imo.
Yup that seems like a good idea...... Gives the feedlots a PR opportunity to try and convince the public that they actually care about the sports fishing community.
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When all you own is a hammer everything looks like a nail.
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Yup that seems like a good idea...... Gives the feedlots a PR opportunity to try and convince the public that they actually care about the sports fishing community.
Have you ever considered that perhaps they do? Thank goodness not everyone has your narrow minded view of our fisheries af; your blinkered thoughts are becoming even lamer than usual.
Time for your nap perhaps?
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Have you ever considered that perhaps they do? Thank goodness not everyone has your narrow minded view of our fisheries af; your blinkered thoughts are becoming even lamer than usual.
Time for your nap perhaps?
Look around the world to see how feedlots care less about wild fish. The sooner they are gone the sooner the feedlot companies will be able to fill the oceans with their net pens....
Of course you're going to tell me that the feedlots on the BC coast are different, that they actually have a conscience and care about the wild fish.... :o Remember the same companies that are operating in other parts of the globe are here polluting our coast as well.
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Now that seems like an idea that should be pursued. Great opportunity for some angling groups to step forward and partner, at least a bit, with aquaculture. A winner for both sides, imo.
Exactly Dave. Opportunities for partnerships abound. Throwing your potential partner under the bus on TV is not the best way to move forward. That being said, Ms. Schmitt has no reason to demonstrate goodwill at this point, given her history and treatment from the dept.
As absolon states, the Sarita project is a properly designed study designed to assess the efficacy of an S1 strategy on stocks that have a natural S0 life history. The history of altering salmon life histories by enhancement hasn't been stellar; that said, it's worth looking into, if done so properly. I still fully agree with the Dept's stance of fully reviewing any application to release farmed (or hatchery, whatever you want to call these) fish into the wild. Not clear on af's stance, if he in in favour of just allowing any private interest to release their fish to the wild to give them a sense of accomplishment?
Keep in mind that given the increased cost to rear these Chinook for an extra year (~10X), you will need to see an increased survival commensurate with that cost to make it a feasible alternative. If it is, then let's look harder at it. With a little research and perusing of the IFMP you'll see that this work is taking place in several other locations in the province over the past few years to properly assess the S1 strategy in systems that have a naturally occurring S1 component.
Nog, I do appreciate your time and efforts in the Alberni area, and I think we are all working towards the same objective, just differing perspective on the issues around those objectives. Your vision and "dream world" scenario are not as farfetched as you think. There are many folks looking at options around improving things from the status quo, both from a habitat restoration as well as enhancement perspective, much as you describe.
Back to my armchair.
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Yup that seems like a good idea...... Gives the feedlots a PR opportunity to try and convince the public that they actually care about the sports fishing community.
And Mortons PR actually does what? Time to get out of that US funded propaganda train of thought like I did AF. :)
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As suggested, perhaps it would be a rather good idea for all of us to look a little more into the background of such situations before firing off "armchair biologist" comments from afar...
More on the issue from last night's news: http://www.cheknews.ca/?bckey=AQ~~%2CAAAA4mHNTzE~%2CejlzBnGUUKY1gXVPwEwEepl35Y795rND&bclid=975107450001&bctid=2492167722001
Cheers,
Nog
All good information, but my issue is that you took this story all over the internet on the assumption that the department was going to deny this request. As was stated in the news article, the department is reviewing the request - it didn't not automatically close the door. When things like this are proposed there needs to be some oversight because it could have also been spun around to look like the department allowed dumping of farmed fish into the ocean. I realize things do not move fast enough for you and many others that share your view. I believe many others on the other side of the fence can understand this frustration to a point.
In some respects, this reminds me of the iron fertilization project off Haida Gwaii where many people thought it was a great idea to dump iron off the coast to feed all starving salmon and why the Canadian government was not very supportive. If that part of the province has excellent salmon returns is it because of the dumping of the iron? Well, before you start dumping stuff or releasing something else that you believe is beneficial there has to be some sort of plan or monitoring in place (In the case of the HSRC simply finding the presence of increased phytoplankton growth alone does not prove anything). There was a time many people thought Mysis was good idea to feed Kokanee. I agree with Absolon that if there are any negative consequences from this release it is pretty safe to say where blame will be laid, so reviewing the application is important before jumping all in. Unfortunately, the department dropped the ball in effectively communicating to the public its direction on this. From that perspective I don't necessarily blame people for being upset - just don't take the media story as being the complete picture is all I am saying. In addition, calling a Conservative MP about this would be like trying to get a response from a lamp post outside my house. I do not believe anyone really wants the status quo with what is going on in your area, but a sober second look before approving this may not be a bad thing.
Back to my armchair as well......
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All good information, but my issue is that you took this story all over the internet on the assumption that the department was going to deny this request. As was stated in the news article, the department is reviewing the request - it didn't not automatically close the door. When things like this are proposed there needs to be some oversight because it could have also been spun around to look like the department allowed dumping of farmed fish into the ocean. I realize things do not move fast enough for you and many others that share your view. I believe many others on the other side of the fence can understand this frustration to a point.
In some respects, this reminds me of the iron fertilization project off Haida Gwaii where many people thought it was a great idea to dump iron off the coast to feed all starving salmon and why the Canadian government was not very supportive. If that part of the province has excellent salmon returns is it because of the dumping of the iron? Well, before you start dumping stuff or releasing something else that you believe is beneficial there has to be some sort of plan or monitoring in place (In the case of the HSRC simply finding the presence of increased phytoplankton growth alone does not prove anything). There was a time many people thought Mysis was good idea to feed Kokanee. I agree with Absolon that if there are any negative consequences from this release it is pretty safe to say where blame will be laid, so reviewing the application is important before jumping all in. Unfortunately, the department dropped the ball in effectively communicating to the public its direction on this. From that perspective I don't necessarily blame people for being upset - just don't take the media story as being the complete picture is all I am saying. In addition, calling a Conservative MP about this would be like trying to get a response from a lamp post outside my house. I do not believe anyone really wants the status quo with what is going on in your area, but a sober second look before approving this may not be a bad thing.
Back to my armchair as well......
Some good points.... too bad some of your advice wasn't applied to the feedlot industry before they started dropping their nets in our ocean.
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You've slipped a long ways since you first came on this forum preaching the feedlot propaganda. Now you're supporting the nonsense being posted by dnibbles and sounding more and more like a schoolyard bully.
I realize that I've likely contributed to your slide by bringing, truth and transparency to the discussion..... for that I cannot apologize. ::)
The best I can suggest is perhaps you take a little time off to recoup before coming back with more feedlot propaganda. ;D
You have contributed to my amusement on this board more than you will ever know....For that I thank you.
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You have contributed to my amusement on this board more than you will ever know....For that I thank you.
As have you and the rest of your posse. ;D
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All good information, but my issue is that you took this story all over the internet on the assumption that the department was going to deny this request. As was stated in the news article, the department is reviewing the request - it didn't not automatically close the door. ...
I do not believe anyone really wants the status quo with what is going on in your area, but a sober second look before approving this may not be a bad thing.
While I understand your concern (issue) it is simply something I cannot commiserate with.
The assumption that the Department is going to deny this request is based both on their previous track record, and their actions in this regard to date.
DFO has known about, and had the project "Under Review" for nearly two years now. Longer in fact if you consider the initial "consultations" regarding the Sarita Enhancement Project - initiated near ten years ago now. As you may recall, of all the systems considered (Nahmint, Franklin, Bedwell etc) the only one approved was the Sarita, and that after an extremely exhaustive "review process". Most involved readily understood and agreed to the need for the review process, and many worked diligently to help provide answers to the multitude of questions/concerns it posed. However as that process drew out year after year, that same many began to suffer from the perception that the Department was intentionally dragging the review out in the hope that the idea would simply go away.
The responses of DFO representatives in multiple public meetings (SFAB) have done little to dissuade that perception. Rolling eyes and clearing the item off the agenda as fast as is possible sends a reasonably clear message to those in attendance. A performance that has literally been repeated dozens of times over the course of many years.
I wholly concur that such experiments must be subject to close inspection before proceeding. There are potential risks associated with any new enhancement technique, and those should be carefully defined and weighed closely against the potential benefits that might be incurred.
However I also feel this should (and can) be accomplished in a realistic time frame. This particular project is not something that just sprang up on the Department over night. At bare minimum, they were aware of the target release system since prior to issuing the authority to transfer fertilized eggs from Robertson Creek's brood capture program two entire falls ago. Is a year and a half (plus) not sufficient time to conduct such a review process? Or is it possible that by ignoring that requirement to date, they can now claim that the review has unfortunately not been completed and employ that as a mechanism to deny the project from proceeding? Apologies for the conspiratorial overtones, but actions of the past and present...
I guess there was something of an indication of the Department's mindset when it was time to clip and wire code these fish. Something Bruce & Carole were quite prepared to do in order to maximize the data collection from this experiment. However something DFO was obviously opposed to occurring for whatever reason.
Both I and the many concerned Folks here may be in error in these perceptions. The Department might yet actually do something along the lines of a review, and we may yet see some science based decisions as to whether the project should proceed or not. Again, given past (and current) performance, I am not holding my breath. That said, I will gladly eat my words and offer up a most sincere apology were that to be forthcoming...
Your vision and "dream world" scenario are not as farfetched as you think. There are many folks looking at options around improving things from the status quo, both from a habitat restoration as well as enhancement perspective, much as you describe.
One Can Hope...
Cheers,
Nog
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--I cannot understand the lack of funding excuse... why can't DFO and other departments produce a "wish list" of under or unfunded projects. If we see one we like maybe we can raise the money from other sources.
--So what if it is PR.... if fish farms wish to provide a private fund or use of a portion of their facilities for to provide recreational and commercial opportunities... why not take the money... hold your nose if you like.
--I get tired of hearing the no funding excuses...projects of value or local significance always have a chance but for sure they have no chance if no one asks.
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Would be a shame if by some misshap they all escaped from their pens into the wild. Happened more than once in the ocean farms.
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Would be a shame if by some misshap they all escaped from their pens into the wild. Happened more than once in the ocean farms.
;D except DFO turns a blind eye to the feedlot escapes...
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--I cannot understand the lack of funding excuse... why can't DFO and other departments produce a "wish list" of under or unfunded projects. If we see one we like maybe we can raise the money from other sources.
--So what if it is PR.... if fish farms wish to provide a private fund or use of a portion of their facilities for to provide recreational and commercial opportunities... why not take the money... hold your nose if you like.
--I get tired of hearing the no funding excuses...projects of value or local significance always have a chance but for sure they have no chance if no one asks.
This is already being done through the Pacific Salmon Foundation where they already partner with DFO. The latest partnership venture is this one along with Genome BC: http://www.psf.ca/programs/salmon-health-initiative
An ongoing study (since 2010) of Chilko Sockeye by Scott Hinch's group from UBC and Kintama is funded by the PSF and the Rocky Mountaineer. This is being done to assess areas of mortality and what factors might be involved in this mortality. Two-year old smolts are surgically implanted with acoustic transmitters. Direct access to these smolts is made possible by the DFO counting fence located about 1km downstream of Chilko Lake.
The 2013 Federal Budget will now allow the return of 100 per cent of user fees collected from sales of the Recreational Fisheries Conservation Stamp to the PSF for funding restoration and enhancement activities.
The budget also called for 10 million dollars to be made available over 2 years to local groups who undertake fisheries habitat work; however, one-third of the habitat jobs in BC were axed recently. Give from one hand - take from the other. Actually rip from shoulder socket is a better analogy.
The 2013 Federal budget calls for 100 million dollars to be cut from the department over the next 3 years starting in 2015/16. These are substantial cuts and the department is not alone. With this current trend it seems more than likely that funding for "wish list" projects will have to come from other sources like the PSF.
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Does the DFO know something we don't or think we don't .Can all the salmon you can this year and next couple of years. When they dump all that stored water they are using to cool the storage rods and reactors the Pacific is doomed. I am talking about the disaster that happened at the Fukushima Nuclear plant in Japan.Should we talk about all the radioactive debris that is going to come to our shores this year and next from the tsunami. I would be interested in hearing from you guides what you see out there this season.
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Harper Conservatives are going to dance to the tune of some of their financial supporters. Future DFO research will be provided by the likes of Marineharvest etal as a way of privatizing. Anyone other than some management at DFO better not be criticizing their potential new employer.
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Does the DFO know something we don't or think we don't .Can all the salmon you can this year and next couple of years. When they dump all that stored water they are using to cool the storage rods and reactors the Pacific is doomed. I am talking about the disaster that happened at the Fukushima Nuclear plant in Japan.Should we talk about all the radioactive debris that is going to come to our shores this year and next from the tsunami. I would be interested in hearing from you guides what you see out there this season.
Maybe DFO knows where Jimmy Hoffa is also? I wouldn't be surprised if fishing guides, First Nations, commercial fishermen, fish farm activists, shoe cobblers, gas station attendants, vet assistants and homeless people blame poor fishing on DFO inability to stop the dumping radioactive storage water in Japan.
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I wasn't talking about pointing fingers at why we have poor fishing or management. We all know why that is. Money talks and common sense walks. I am talking about the effect this will have on your children and there children's health.Time will tell whether radiation has an impact on salmon stocks of the pacific. Apparently they found Hoffa's concrete coffin.
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Here is a great video about our salmon situation..it is long but well worth watching:
http://www.bulletproofexec.com/how-norway-is-killing-your-sushi/
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Here is a great video about our salmon situation..it is long but well worth watching:
http://www.bulletproofexec.com/how-norway-is-killing-your-sushi/
Thanks for posting..... well worth watching!
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Lol just more internet insanity. Enjoy the Alaskan feedlot salmon while it is fresh. :)
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Lol just more internet insanity. Enjoy the Alaskan feedlot salmon while it is fresh. :)
Spoken like a true netpenner.
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--doesn't matter how much money is avaialbe if there are no DFO staff to review and approve projects. I suspect this is in part an issue in this case as they already have an approved project well on the way which I presume they have dedicated staff time to... some want this project to go ahead but local DFO staff may have been directed to do other work. Not saying that if they had the time they would approve this project or not.
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Here is a great video about our salmon situation..it is long but well worth watching:
http://www.bulletproofexec.com/how-norway-is-killing-your-sushi/
Here is a great report (pricey, but good) about our current knowledge about Fraser Sockeye - possible causes of its decline, its current state, and recommendations for improving future sustainability. It is long but well worth reading....and understanding:
http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/FinalReport/
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Here's a press release just sent out by Carol Schmitt from Omega Pacific:
For Circulation – Update June 24, 2013
Due to much interest and response on this topic.
For additional information - carolgcl@xplornet.com
Donation of 65,000 Robertson Creek Stock Chinook Smolts to
Port Alberni Community for Release and Future Fishing Opportunities
Chinook Stock and Rearing Information
October, 2011, Omega Pacific Hatchery received a permit to acquire Chinook Eggs and Milt from Robertson Creek Hatchery. The adult Brood stock was randomly selected by DFO Staff at their brailer site. Omega Pacific staff then spawned the eggs and milt into zip lock bags, and transported these back to Omega Hatchery for incubation and rearing. Adult Females were disease screened for Bacteriology and Virology. Females numbered. # 818 to 848, spawned October 21, 2011, were fertilized with 30 Robertson males. This group is being donated to the community for release.
Omega Pacific Hatchery is located 15 km upstream from Robertson Creek, on Great Central Lake. Water source is cool fish free creek and well water, single flow through rearing pools, discharged by exfiltration into man made ponds. Since 1988 we have grown millions of high quality Chinook smolts.
Chinook smolts were ponded for first feed in June 2012 and reared in circular fiber glass pools until June 2013. Their current size is 10 to 16 grams. On May 16, 2013 sixty smolts were submitted to the Center for Aquatic Health Sciences for routine Health check. Report received June 7th, fish have a clean bill of health, free of any bacterial and viral pathogens. On May 16th Omega Hatchery submitted an Introductions and Transplant Committee Application (ITC) for release by June 30th, 2013, pending approval.
Committee Proposal to DFO for Release
Our community has a “Barkley Wild Salmon Working Group (BWSWG) made up of First Nations, Governments, Enhancement facilities and Residents to address topics of concern for the betterment of our salmon resource and ensure fishing opportunities.
Sub-committees under the BWSWG take on topics as projects.
• May 21, 2013 the Chinook Projects (S1) subcommittee submitted a proposal to DFO, Mel Sheng, to release the 65K donated chin. He replied he’d get back to us.
• May, 2013 the Alberni Clayoquot Regional District and City of Port Alberni designated a member to participate in the upcoming meeting with DFO.
• June 7th, BWSWG general meeting of all participants, Mel Sheng phoned in and said he just received the proposal, DFO has a process and the ITC and DFO’s Andy Thomson, and March Klaver would be handling the proposal..
• Committee response was- he had been informed in discussions at least two months previous and three weeks ago been sent the proposal. Although there is a process within DFO, there is also the ability to make a decision on this in a timely fashion.
• June18th, Andy Thomson updated us that Mel was overseeing this proposal.
• June 20th, James Lunney called from Ottawa having seen the media coverage. He called Andy Thomson who informed him the experts within the department were currently reviewing the proposal.
Proposal Submission Includes: Intro Letter, Proposal, Omega Summary, Documentation of S1 Prevalence in WCVI Streams, Disease Screening Results, ITC Application.
Robertson Chinook Smolt Release Locations
Robertson Creek Hatchery annually releases 6.5 million chinook S0 smolts (3 month freshwater rearing) and in past released several groups of S1 smolts (12 months freshwater rearing). Omega Pacific currently has S1 smolts. Chinook S0 and S1 are documented to occur in WCVI streams (Technical Fisheries Report 1482).
Robertson Creek Smolts have been released at several locations throughout the water shed from Great Central Lake, into Sprout River as well as many locations in the Alberni Inlet. This stock has also been released in Clemens Creek, head waters to Henderson Lake. The Chinook Projects (S1) Subcommittee has suggested Great Central Lake, having been a past release site by Omega Pacific in 1996 for Bob Wright’s Quick Start Chinook program, as well as Arden Creek, currently identified by DFO as a future net pen rearing and release location for Robertson stock. ITC requested a site for the permit so we entered Arden Creek. We have asked DFO their suggested site; however have not yet had a response.
Robertson Creek chinook releases are classified as “an enhanced stock”, the objective to provide fishing opportunities. The 2013 preliminary forecast of Chinook returns for this stock is 16,600 adults. (record low). The river requires 28,000 adult returns before any fishing opportunities are allowed. This year there will be no chinook fishery and the Salmon Festival Society annual Salmon Derby will be for Coho salmon. The loss of fishing opportunities is very costly and directly impacts everyone in our community.
With all things considered, there is no reason for the 65,000 Chinook smolts to not be given the go ahead for release. Omega Pacific staff and especially the beautiful school of chinook smolts hope this ends on a positive note, and the fish are able to swim as family school up to Alaska and back home in 2016 to 2018!
And STILL in "Hover Mode"...
Nog
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Good News arrived today. The release of these smolts was (FINALLY!) Approved late yesterday! ;D
Hoping to be able to run back to Port to lend a hand with their release at the Arden Creek site next week...
Cheers,
Nog
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Good News arrived today. The release of these smolts was (FINALLY!) Approved late yesterday! ;D
Hoping to be able to run back to Port to lend a hand with their release at the Arden Creek site next week...
Cheers,
Nog
Well done Matt in bringing the awareness out, it certainly helps get the job done.
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Both I and the many concerned Folks here may be in error in these perceptions. The Department might yet actually do something along the lines of a review, and we may yet see some science based decisions as to whether the project should proceed or not. Again, given past (and current) performance, I am not holding my breath. That said, I will gladly eat my words and offer up a most sincere apology were that to be forthcoming...
One Can Hope...
Cheers,
Nog
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LOL! In this case I actually don't mind eating my words Steve! Chomp Chomp! ;D
Seems public pressure can at times make a difference! SWEET!
The Update: http://www.cheknews.ca/?bckey=AQ~~,AAAA4mHNTzE~,ejlzBnGUUKY1gXVPwEwEepl35Y795rND&bclid=975107450001&bctid=2540766527001
Cheers,
Nog
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LOL! In this case I actually don't mind eating my words Steve! Chomp Chomp! ;D
Seems public pressure can at times make a difference! SWEET!
The Update: http://www.cheknews.ca/?bckey=AQ~~,AAAA4mHNTzE~,ejlzBnGUUKY1gXVPwEwEepl35Y795rND&bclid=975107450001&bctid=2540766527001
Cheers,
Nog
Saw the coveage on the 2 Victoria TV stations, well done by all that helped get this done.