Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: greybark on February 16, 2009, 08:05:18 PM
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I think its time to rethink the idea of photos of Wild Steelhead . I believe it is good in theory but not good in reality . Keeping a wild fish out of the water during the photo taking must be tramatic particularly during freezng weather . Even a photo of a played out fish on its side in a bit of water and on sand can`t be doing the fish a favour with the sand washing on to the gills .
I suggest we encourage keeping the photos to harvested hatchery fish and encourage in water (submerged) releases .
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haha, :D, traumatic!!!! what do you call enticing a fish to bite, reefing back for a good hookset, driving the hook through cartilage and bone, forcing the fish to fight for its life, reviving it, and releasing it!!!! if you are already doing that to wild fish than why not take a picture? You are not doing fish a favor by fishing for them, period!I am quite tired of anglers talking about how wonderfully and carefully they release their fish and how ethical they are, as if the fish would go through all of this and say "thanks, that was fun, I'm glad that you are an ethical fisherman and did not take a picture and did not get sand in my gills". if you were truly ethical you would not fish. This is sport fishing and we do it for our own thrill or for food. We need to respect the fish and practice proper release tactics but in essence we want fish survival so that there will be more fish.....to catch and do this thing all over again. that's my two cents
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I think the LEAST of your worries is taking a picutre.... just a little tastet of what actually happens out there.
Yes I took this video, yes that it a fish (WILD STEELHEAD)he is rocheting 3 feet into the air ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMQX4xnFbco
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Hey hue-nut , inspite of your theatrics the catching of a wild fish gives you the OPTION of a further traumatic photo event rather than your so called RIGHT .
As far as being truly ethical and not fishing as you described would preclude me from catching hatchery stock and carying on a tradition of harvesting steelhead for great table fare for over 45 years .
I am glad that some fishers out there are proud of the way they release their fish and hope their ideas gain prominence .
Cheers
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Greybark,
As said above, if you worry about the ethics of taking a photo of a wild steelhead after fooling it into thinking it is going to get a tasty morsel, impaling a sharp hook into its lip, playing a tug of war against its will and handling the fish to unhook it, dear sir, respectfully, you are either a hypocrite or out of touch with reality.
If handled properly, lifting a fish out of the water for a couple of seconds to take a picture won't hurt the fish at all.
If you are genuinely concerned about the well-being of the fish, do what is right and STOP ANGLING altogether, or at least stop angling in waters where there is a chance of you hooking into a fish you can't keep for the table.
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Most guys I fish with keep the fish in the water for pics regardless if it's a wild or not. If you can keep it in the water and it's better for the fish, why not? To me makes a better pic anyways :)
I don't think its a bad suggestion, but at the same time I think most of the people have enough respect for the fish to handle it well and release it quickly after a picture, so that a moment out of the drink is harmless compared to the fight. I'd say that playing a fish out to exhaustion is 10x worse for it.
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I agree with Greybark for the reasons he stated. Pulling the fish out of the water while you fumble around trying to get the perfect picture adds extra stress for what reason, bragging rights?
Greybark is both an avid fisherman and bowhunter who respects the resources we have and is suggesting we all look at ways we can minimize our impact on the wild steelhead.
For those that are quick to jump on him for suggesting this shows an unwillingness to look at things from another perspective. However I believe there are probably many others that will read this and will take the time to review the way they are handling their fish.
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Hey guys, this is just a reminder about shooting ourselves in the foot. Any talk about bad treatment of fish is more ammunition against us for the likes of PETA and the rest of the antis out there. Whilst topics should be aired and discussed, we should try and make the effort to 'tone down' certain comments and remarks.
Only thinking of our future here and the sport we love.
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I agree with Greybark for the reasons he stated. Pulling the fish out of the water while you fumble around trying to get the perfect picture adds extra stress for what reason, bragging rights? ...However I believe there are probably many others that will read this and will take the time to review the way they are handling their fish.
Reviewing the way one handles their fish is one thing, alwaysfishn (and it's one thing I completely agree with)... However as stated above, suggesting that it's ok to hook a fish, fight it, and then drag it in - only to release it - is fine, but that to lift the fish from the water for a quick photo is a poor practice/unethical/etc, is a bit of an odd statement.
I do agree that when handling fish, the utmost care and respect is deserved. For any photos I've taken, you can literally see the water pouring off of the fish as previous to the photo I'd been holding the fish facing into the current in at least a foot or two of water, and only lifted it out on the moment the camera was ready and focussed.
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/spencerrolls/TexfirstVeddersteelie.jpg)
And I don't do it for bragging rights, I do it for the memories and to be able to reflect back on the beauty of the fish and the scenery surrounding it.
Cheers,
:D
Tex - always tries his utmost to respect his catch these days
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Nice pic, Tex!
A helluva photographic job and a great memory.
I wonder who the camera operator was...;)
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whats wrong greybark? nobody willing to take a picture of you? so you need another rant?
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whats wrong greybark? nobody willing to take a picture of you? so you need another rant?
Hardly a rant....he's just suggesting something for consideration....give the guy a break.
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;) Hey Tex , that is a great photo and i agree with your handling of that fish . That I have no problem with . As stated in my post it the freezing temperature and sand in the gills thing that mainly concerns me . Also witnessing a looking in the pack for the camera with the fish half in the water and a drag out , look and disscuss then return the fish to water .
Hey Tnt , their cameras broke when faced with a 70year old grump or may-be they didn`t have wide angle lens . ;D ;
Some good common sense posts and as expected some red herrings .
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Nice pic, Tex!
A helluva photographic job and a great memory.
I wonder who the camera operator was...;)
Like this one. In the water with water coming off it. What a good camera man ;)
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/bbronswyk2000/Fishing/Vedder%20Cleanups/VEDDER_cleanup_008.jpg)
I agree with what most of the people are saying on here. A quick photo is perfectly fine.
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Common sense plays into a lot of this.
One of the first things I do when walking into a run is look for a pool/platform, anything that has calm and preferabally knee deep water where I can land a fish easily.
I always have my camera right in the front of the pouch of my waders, unzipped for easy access should we happen to hook one.
We already have a few videos this year of fighting fish, just because I am able to grab my camera within 10 seconds.
Most (not all) of my pics look like this...
(http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg25/fishing_in_summer/IMG_0269.jpg)
I like to keep them in the water and "tilt" them so you see the size, every once in a while I lift them out quickly for a quick shot and then back they go.
Keeping them in the water also makes them easier to lift after the "long" fight ;)
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What a great looking steelie you got Tex. Congrats. Was that pic posted before? Forget it, you probably get nailed for showing the spot too clearly... ;D
I respect Greybark's concern for wild steelie. We should treat the fish with respect. Hey we depend on them for brood stock which gives us the hatch steelies for dinner. ;D
But there is a fine line we walk as sport fishermen engaging in a fun but 'violent' sport and the objection of the animal rights folks. Too much worry for the welfare of the animal/fish, we may be stepping into the other camp slowly w/o realizing it. Didn't a former avid fisherman who is a famous broadcaster publicly stated that he was giving up the sport of fishing because he could no longer justify.......... (you know what). Posting a quick pic like Tex's is perfectly fine. Those few seconds won't kill a fish. They are a tough animal. How many of us have caught fish with big seal wounds or bad net marks which still have the aggressiveness to bite our presentation.
So try not to create another scenario of finger pointing or me right you wrong stuff, and every fish picture gets examined with a microscope for water drops, with the poor poster cross-examined for proper handling. If so pretty soon no one wants to share their fishing memories on a public domain like this. My humble 2 cents.
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Nice pic, Tex!
A helluva photographic job and a great memory.
I wonder who the camera operator was...;)
Some crotchety old bugger who I haven't been fishing with in faaaaaaar too long. You around this weekend, Milo-man? I'm gonna go chuck the spey on one of the days I think.
:D
Tex
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What a great looking steelie you got Tex. Congrats. Was that pic posted before? Forget it, you probably get nailed for showing the spot too clearly... ;D
Yep, I've posted that photo before. Unless it's truly a "secret" spot (which very very very few places on the Vedder are), or unless it's shown to me by a fellow angler who'd like to keep it quiet-ish, I don't mind posting them at all. I've got a thick skin, and don't care if others get upset about it.
Plus, that photo was taken a few years ago anyhow, so the run has totally changed and may not even hold many fish these days. ;)
Thanks for the kudos though! Hope to see ya on the water one day.
:D
Tex
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Nice pic, Tex!
A helluva photographic job and a great memory.
I wonder who the camera operator was...;)
Some crotchety old bugger who I haven't been fishing with in faaaaaaar too long. You around this weekend, Milo-man? I'm gonna go chuck the spey on one of the days I think.
:D
Tex
Tad and I are heading out on Saturday. Be at my place at 5:30 AM. I'll show you some sweet spey water.
Plus, that photo was taken a few years ago anyhow, so the run has totally changed and may not even hold many fish these days.
Totally true. All that area has changed considerably in the last couple of years. That particular stretch doesn't even look like that anymore. And it is mostly unproductive. But the Vedder regulars know plenty well where to walk from there these days...a 15-20 minute hike can take them to some really nice new runs. ;)
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Grey Bark, did not mean to be too caustic, I don't usually get too worked up about stuff on here, but I do get tired of anglers debating over certain issues. Maybe I am wrong but I think that most anglers on here are quite educated on fish handling, maybe not, but now people are gonna be thinking twice before posting their photos, "is there water coming off of my fish?? maybe I can photoshop some droplets in there?" I see where you are coming from and I mean no disrespect, just my opinion.
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Hey Hue-nut , No problem and I appreciate you took the time to post - cheers
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cool buddy, we all can sharpen each other in one way or another.
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You don't have to lift the fish out of the water for great pic's Smaller ones handled properly won't be affected as much as larger ones...You need to use common sense when you get a bigger one...Then I think you need to handle with care!!!
(http://www.fishingwithrod.com/albums/golfman65/IMG_2896_Large.jpg)
(http://www.fishingwithrod.com/albums/golfman65/c1.jpg)
(http://www.fishingwithrod.com/albums/golfman65/x3_Large.jpg)
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I think Milo did even better with his under water camera shot, with the whole wild steelie totally submerged. He won the best steelie photo shot with that one. ;D So he may be the most ethical of us all. ;D ;D ;D
But seriously, I think we should stay away from me-right you-wrong as much as possible on a public forum especially on grey areas. Most experienced fishermen especially those who are regulars here know how to handle fish properly and their preferences should be respected. Otherwise we are creating too many scenarios of holier-than-thou attitude in all aspects of fishing. We just saw one post a week ago when some one questioned if one can use the feet to stop a landed fish from breaking for freedom. There is no end going down this road and there will be no peace in this forum.
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Hey everyone,
I am very new to this site and would like to post this topic(fisherman training) under general discussion but can figure out how.
Anyways this discussion as do many others makes me think that sport fishing should be a privilege like hunting is. I have always thought that it would be a good idea if people had to take a course to qualify for the great privilege of fishing in BC. At lease ESPECIALLY for steel head ( unless you are guided).
I can tell you countless horror stories of bad fish handling and severe disregard to regulation that just make me sick.
I do like to get a photo of a fish and my photos are quick, done with a buddy like most of the above.
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I think Milo did even better with his under water camera shot, with the whole wild steelie totally submerged. He won the best steelie photo shot with that one. ;D So he may be the most ethical of us all. ;D ;D ;D
You mean kinda like this one?
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/spencerrolls/Texunderwater1.jpg)
As for him being the most ethical of us all... no way! He's the most despicable, poor-fish-handling, barbed-hook-fishing, bait-chucking arsehole I've ever met.
And I'm going fishing with him on Saturday. ;)
:D
Tex
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As for him being the most ethical of us all... no way! He's the most despicable, poor-fish-handling, barbed-hook-fishing, bait-chucking arsehole I've ever met.
And I'm going fishing with him on Saturday. ;)
:D
Tex
Which means you COULD get some pictures like these:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/milivoj/Stamp%20River/Unhookingthefish.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/milivoj/Readytogo.jpg)
Or, if the water is really clear something like this:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/milivoj/Miscellaneous/Milosteelieedit.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/milivoj/Miscellaneous/Tadsteelie1-1.jpg)
Or, if everything comes together (location, clarity, light) maybe we could end up shooting a video like this one:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/milivoj/th_UnderwatersteelyshotMilo.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v131/milivoj/?action=view¤t=UnderwatersteelyshotMilo.flv)
Although I try to make underwater pics whenever possible, I still think there is no harm in lifting the fish out of the water for a couple of seconds to take a quick hero shot, except when the fish is too big...in that case...better leave it in the water as Paul suggested.
Cheers,
Milo
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v131/milivoj/Miscellaneous/Tadsteelie1-1.jpg)
This is such a classic photo, Milo. I love it... Hope we get a shot to take a photo like that!
:D
Tex
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Like this
(http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=79324&id=703280078&l=4c06b)
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milo- that video was sooo awesome and the pics! very nice!!cant wait to catch one!
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:o nice fish u guys, loving the pictures. makes me want to pack all my stuff and move to the wack, still hoping to catch my first
:-X 0-7 is depressing
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Awesome shots indeed Milo. Yeup, I recognize one of them won the best steelie shot contest. Yours beat my shot with a slab just barely out of the water. I concede defeat whole-heartedly in face of your wonderful shots. :D
Now we just have to figure out a way to immerse ourselves under water so we can associate the catch with the fishermen's face for memory's sake. ;D Any smart idea?
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Awesome shots indeed Milo. Yeup, I recognize one of them won the best steelie shot contest. Yours beat my shot with a slab just barely out of the water. I concede defeat whole-heartedly in face of your wonderful shots. :D
Now we just have to figure out a way to immerse ourselves under water so we can associate the catch with the fishermen's face for memory's sake. ;D Any smart idea?
snorkel
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Milo what kind of cam are you using? Beautiful pics. How do you get it to focus without seeing the shot, or is it a bit of a crapshoot? I am getting a waterproof camera because of shots like this .....gorgeous.
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(http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv215/aquapaloosa/April152007039.jpg)
Bit of a snake but nice pic I think.
Most of the pictures I see on this site of steel head are really really awesome!!
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Or you can just at lease get a peak at them if the will not bite.
Low clear water...
Just cant seem to post video from photo bucket to go with this comment.
help?
Its a cool clip!
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Awesome shots indeed Milo. Yeup, I recognize one of them won the best steelie shot contest. Yours beat my shot with a slab just barely out of the water. I concede defeat whole-heartedly in face of your wonderful shots. :D
Now we just have to figure out a way to immerse ourselves under water so we can associate the catch with the fishermen's face for memory's sake. ;D Any smart idea?
Thanks, Steelhawk.
Although I won, I have to confess that I liked your pic very much. I almost voted for it myself!
For winter steelhead, I really have no ideas, but my buddy and I have planned to make a few underwater hero shots holding the fish underwater in the summer. I don't mind a good dunk in the old Cheddar in the summer on a sunny day, but this time of year...no way, man! :o
Milo what kind of cam are you using? Beautiful pics. How do you get it to focus without seeing the shot, or is it a bit of a crapshoot? I am getting a waterproof camera because of shots like this .....gorgeous.
Thanks, Marmot.
I use the Pentax Optio W series camera. Some of the pictures posted were made with the wpi, others with the W30 when I upgraded.
Although it is a bit of a crapshoot, what I always make sure to do is press the shutter button half way through and hold it for a second before pressing it down completely. This allows the camera to focus on whatever object it is pointed at. I try two or three different distances and I avoid using the flash. Also keep in mind that water magnifies everything, so you should add some distance between the lens and the fish compared to a regular pic. (around 30%)
When I am taking an underwater picture, if at all possible, I have someone hold the fish for me so I can take multiple shots. One or two out of ten eventually come out nicely.
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uh oh.....one out of ten of my ABOVE water shots turn out nicely...I'll be in trouble!
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so am I gonna get ragged on if I post an above water shot of a wild fish? ;D I gotta get a new camera.
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Taking a quick photo of a fish out of water does not pose any problem as long as it is done quickly and without the use of gloves, bait rags or any other material that will remove the slime layer on the fish.
I have seen numerous anglers landing fish with gloves on, so as to get a better grip on the fish. This practice could jeopardize the survival of the fish in the long term. Fungus infections once started are very
difficult to control in both a hatchery situation and more so on fish in the wild, once they take hold.
On another note we have transported approximately 1990 steelhead back to the hatchery over a period of 27 years. These fish were landed, placed in transport tubs, placed in a transport tank, trucked 20-25 km , netted and placed in isolation boxes. Of the total number transported I can recall only one or two fish that I would say that died from hooking mortality. This is a reflection of how these fish have been handled by the brood stock anglers and their dedication to providing a healthy fish that has not been abused.
Total holding mortalities generally run about 4-5% ( 3-4 fish ) over a period of 4-5 months. To date no mortalities have been recorded for 2009. However they generally occur to wards the end of holding in April. The major cause of mortalities is stress and fungus problems due to weekly handling once they are close to maturity.
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Taking a quick photo of a fish out of water does not pose any problem as long as it is done quickly and without the use of gloves, bait rags or any other material that will remove the slime layer on the fish.
I have seen numerous anglers landing fish with gloves on, so as to get a better grip on the fish. This practice could jeopardize the survival of the fish in the long term. Fungus infections once started are very
difficult to control in both a hatchery situation and more so on fish in the wild, once they take hold.
On another note we have transported approximately 1990 steelhead back to the hatchery over a period of 27 years. These fish were landed, placed in transport tubs, placed in a transport tank, trucked 20-25 km , netted and placed in isolation boxes. Of the total number transported I can recall only one or two fish that I would say that died from hooking mortality. This is a reflection of how these fish have been handled by the brood stock anglers and their dedication to providing a healthy fish that has not been abused.
Total holding mortalities generally run about 4-5% ( 3-4 fish ) over a period of 4-5 months. To date no mortalities have been recorded for 2009. However they generally occur to wards the end of holding in April. The major cause of mortalities is stress and fungus problems due to weekly handling once they are close to maturity.
Great info! Do you work with/for the hatcheries? What do you mean by weekly handling?
Thanks,
rhino
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(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c273/CohoCody/P2130204.jpg)
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Hey Coho Cody, is your profile picture taken at the bucket?
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Now that is a great looking steelie you got there, Coho Cody. It looks quite close to my photo contest fish in the angle of shot.
I seond Buck's idea that taking a quick shot above water with a fisherman is harmless and the fond memory with the fish will stays with you for life. Can't say that with some human faces we include in our pictures. ;D
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Hey Coho Cody, is your profile picture taken at the bucket?
yup
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Rhino
As Steelhead start to mature ( get ready to spawn) we have to go through all the fish once each week to see if they are ready to be spawned. This procedure is time consuming and involves
using an anesthetic to knock out 2 fish at a time so as they can be checked for maturity. This procedure creates a lot of stress on the fish which in turn can lead to a number of different disease
related outbreaks. One of our major concerns is trying to reduce fungus that can be very prolific after handing. Once we find a mature male and female these fish are air spawned and the adults are
returned back to the river. Air spawned fish are held for up to a week prior to release to insure that they are fully recovered.
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Why not get pictures like this.
see link
http://s685.photobucket.com/albums/vv215/aquapaloosa/?action=view¤t=P2110013-1.flv
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Buck
So spawned fish are released into the river so that they can go sea bound again and possibily reaturn again right? And just out of interest where are the fish released in the river the lower I am guessing? Thanks for the info.
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aquapaloosa, cus that would take to much effort, comitment, and being able to know the water
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youngun,
;) I am kinda kidding anyway. I was fishing that spot and catching nothing so ran my camera(on long pole) through it and, to my suprize, saw 2 pairs. So we fished it some more and got one of em but lost another.
I hold the fish up and take a picture. I have done lots of underwater pictures but they do take time. It is faster and easier to just pick em up an take a couple quick shots. But it is possible to get pictures of them in there natural state.
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Looks like the Stamp at the same place where VEGAbond got his massive buck. Am I right? If so, I was wondering if it is possible to hike into that spot. I was there with a guide last week and forgot to ask him...
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bren, it is the Stamp
Scott, I was with a guide as well on a sled so I do not know if you can hike there.
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Is that an actual movie camera or only a digital camera with the video option. I love the idea of checking out the water and am tossing around the idea of purchasing a camera. How much for a waterproof camera like the one you have?
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Looks like a new form of fishing 'periscoped steelheading' is just born. ;D ;D
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Scott,
There is another thread on this forum about underwater cameras some where.
That clip is made from a Olympus stylus 850SW but I would buy a pentax opteo I think it is called.
Both good cameras...$300 aprox
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Jeff
Fish are released in the upper river.
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Oh Oh ,your right Steelhawk boat pulls ,dude sticks the camera in and says yup there a few in here lets fish! The spot is below the claybanks and yes you can hike there!
Ha ha. That is really funny but can be really productive too. Just imagine how much time wasted in unproductive spots in a day where you may be fishing for ghost fish when none is down there. But now, you can be quite sure there is fish down where you are casting. If you are a fisherman as well as a kayaker, this will be ideal. Just float down the river from up top, stop at each run, pool or good pocket water, stick the camera down and shot a video clip and then decide to cast or move on. Can`t beat that. This is some can of worms about to bet opened up. ;D ;D Have mercy on the steelies. ;D
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If a person has X-ray vision, are we sure that he will think of looking for a fish first.... ;D ;D ;D
I will try to find out the next lotto number... :D ;D
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If i had one wish and i have always wanted this is to have a power of Xray vision to look at the flow and see where the fish are holdin to be able to cast right to the fish and no more wasted time on a run with no fish,well now it looks like that is becoming a reality!
You can always go to a "Pay and Fish" stocked pond.
Or even better, take up golf. ;D
Maybe it's just me, but having the ability to see where the steelhead is and casting right to it would take away all the sweet anticipation without which all the fun would be gone.
Nah, I'd rather have it the way it is.