Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: bbronswyk2000 on October 18, 2008, 01:52:06 PM
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Personally I love reading reports but dont like reading about the snagging. It seems a report cant be made without mentioning the snaggers out there. I think we are all aware its going on especially on the more popular spots/rivers. I cant dictate what people write but I can voice my opinion. If you had a great day why put a downer on it worrying about people fishing like that?
I try and stay away from spots with those people but sometimes I run across them anyways. I used to get mad but now I dont care. I have done my part ( written letters, made phone calls ) so now I dont need to do anything else. I will always go out and just enjoy myself without worrying about what others are doing.
I notice Rodney never posts about them but I know he must run across them. I thoroughly enjoy his reports because of this.
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Very good point!
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I'm tired of reading about it also. However, if we all stop talking about it, reporting it and trying to stop it, it will never get better. I know for a fact that several fisheries around the world have and are being decimated by unethical behavior. IMO, we have to continue to bring the heat and even turn it up to make it stop. Otherwise, we might be wishing some day soon that we did more.
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well said, we all see those types doing the non-ethical stuff....best is to just report illegall activity...if the co comes great..if not..oh well..we tried. i like to try and go fishing to relieve stress not create it. so with that i do try and go to quiet places where i do not see that stuff. but unfortunately, those busy spots are usually the only places with openings of some ort or another.
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I'm tired of reading about it also. However, if we all stop talking about it, reporting it and trying to stop it, it will never get better. I know for a fact that several fisheries around the world have and are being decimated by unethical behavior. IMO, we have to continue to bring the heat and even turn it up to make it stop. Otherwise, we might be wishing some day soon that we did more.
People have been talking about it for years on these forums. Has it gotten any better? Its gotten worse. So whats the point about talking about it in a report. If you really want to talk about it I would start a separate thread regarding the issues and what can be done to educate and resolve the problems.
Their are always threads kicking around specifically on this issue I just dont see a need for them in good reports. It kind of spoils them.
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Has it really gotten worse?
I think it is actually getting better from what ive been reading.
At least now everyone admits those fish are being snagged and not actuallly biting the wool. ;D
This one is going to take a long time but eventually it will phase out.
I said eventually. ::)
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I seriously doubt Rodney is going to restrict all talk about snaggers to one thread. Not feasible. Personally, I like to keep informed about what's really going on. If I want rose colored glasses, I'll call up a local shop up there and ask for a report. Knowing what's going on helps me to figure out ways to combat what's wrong and enhance what's right.
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Fished the stave today and yes I did see the snaggers but I did not see them keep their snagged fish. The ones I saw they released them. I even noticed a couple switch to a float when they saw us hammering them on jigs. The only thing was they had no jigs but they kept at it. I too think that one day it will get better once they see how many more fish they actually hook by making them bite.
I also think that it should be kept at the for front as I am sure some of them lurk through these fishing forums and that is the only education they get when ity comes to fishing ethically.
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I agree with Bryan, especially the part about that I write good reports. ;D :-[
I seriously doubt Rodney is going to restrict all talk about snaggers to one thread.
I don't think that was the intention of this thread.
Maybe I'll share my thoughts on this later. Dinner time. ;D
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Agree with bbronswyk2000. My .02
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Yes, it does get tiring reading about it. I hate seeing it on the river and have to walk away to fish in a quieter area. But what's really tiring is having to find new places to fish year after year because the snaggers move into the runs I like. There were snaggers in the 80's too, but they were mostly at the major meat holes. Now they are in just about every run, from the top all the way to the Freeway bridge. People who fish ethically are in the minority, it seems, and we're stuck fishing in less productive waters just to seek some solace.
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I agree with Bryan, especially the part about that I write good reports. ;D :-[
I seriously doubt Rodney is going to restrict all talk about snaggers to one thread.
I don't think that was the intention of this thread.
Maybe I'll share my thoughts on this later. Dinner time. ;D
Your right Rod that was not the intention of the thread. Too tired to get into the nitty gritty of what I meant but I think most people here seem to understand what I was getting at.
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If that's how "most people feel", I won't mention snagging in any other post except for this one and the recent thread My Notes. However, I can tell you I think it is a huge mistake to put our heads in the sand and stop talking about it. After seeing this fishery decline the past few years, my clients, my friends and myself are already starting to make plans for elsewhere. I also had several conversations with contingents from other countries and they're not coming back next year. I can stay in Washington and have 20 coho days on the Skykomish. With the average size of at least 10 lbs. Snagging is not tollerated there. WDFW listens to their constituents and pulls out a can of whoop my friend on people who fish un ethically.
Many of you might cheer this loss of competition on the river, but I can tell you, none of the people in my parties have been involved in intentional snagging or over fishing. We have, however, contributed approximately $15,000 to the Canadian economy the past 9 years. Do you think this lost revenue is going to be made up by locals?
Also, If I stop coming to the area, I will stop writing letters to your electeds to try and affect change, and start putting my efforts into preserving my new fishing spots. So, good luck with your head in the sand and your feet in the gravel dredge holes. Let me know how that works out for you.
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If that's how "most people feel", I won't mention snagging in any other post except for this one and the recent thread My Notes. However, I can tell you I think it is a huge mistake to put our heads in the sand and stop talking about it. After seeing this fishery decline the past few years, my clients, my friends and myself are already starting to make plans for elsewhere. I also had several conversations with contingents from other countries and they're not coming back next year. I can stay in Washington and have 20 coho days on the Skykomish. With the average size of at least 10 lbs. Snagging is not tollerated there. WDFW listens to their constituents and pulls out a can of whoop *** on people who fish un ethically.
Many of you might cheer this loss of competition on the river, but I can tell you, none of the people in my parties have been involved in intentional snagging or over fishing. We have, however, contributed approximately $15,000 to the Canadian economy the past 9 years. Do you think this lost revenue is going to be made up by locals?
Also, If I stop coming to the area, I will stop writing letters to your electeds to try and affect change, and start putting my efforts into preserving my new fishing spots. So, good luck with your head in the sand and your feet in the gravel dredge holes. Let me know how that works out for you.
Hello everyone here goes my first post!
Bentrod is right on the money as far as I am concerned. If someone wants to put a blurb in their report about snaggers whats wrong with that? Where do you draw the line? I see no difference
in reading through a newspaper and coming across all sorts of crap you dont like. Where does the editing stop. TV commercials you dont like while watching your favourite program.
I think if it bothers you so much dont read the reports. Pretty simple. Me...I like to be informed of whats going on. Trying to shuffle off a subject to other places is like putting your head in the sand. The I don't care attitude doesnt help anyone. Maybe if someone was breaking into your car at the vedder and I witnessed it and said nothing to the people doing it. Because it happens all the time anyways, the police dont do anything, so why say anything to the lawbreakers as long as they dont bother me.
Rod is also right on about the Washington fisheries IME. Having spent alot of time in both Washington and Oregon things are different on the rivers. Enforcement is much more prevalent than here in BC. I am sure their budgets are way huger than ours. Reason being people speak up and voice their concerns and lobby the govt. Very simple.
Hopefully Bryan you will come to understand one day that the " I don't care" attitude will work against you.
And one other thing which I am sure you have heard of THE SQUEAKY WHEEL GETS THE GREASE
Bluesteele
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Wow talk about your over reacting.
I will explain it so you understand. When someone writes a report, as a reader of that report it gets me pumped for my next time on the water. When I read about the snagging going on in that report that pump for my next trip gets squashed.
Here is an alternative. Say you went to the Vedder, you come back and write a great report in the Fishing Reports section. No mention of the snagging. Than after writing the report in the report section you proceed to the General Discussion forum. Now you start a topic entitled " Vedder River Ethics " You vent your frustrations by posting just on the problems you encountered. You could do this every time you go. I dont care I can skip that topic in General Discussion.
Nobody's head is in the sand we are all aware of it. We call the RAPP line when needed, some of us write letters, we do discuss it from time to time on threads that are not a fishing report. What else do you want us to do? How is complaining about it in a report going to help this any differently than just posting it in a separate post?
If a new guy comes on the forum and writes a report and mentions it than fine because he did now know the problems exsisted before that so we can than talk about it so he understand what he can do.
Bluesteele it will never work against me because I will still do what I need to do. I will call the RAPP line when appropriate. I just wont confront people like I used to. Its not my job to confront people its the job of the CO's not mine. So if I see people snagging fish deliberately and keeping them I make the 2 minute phone call. If I see people fishing without a float on the Vedder or fishing with 10 foot leaders I dont care because technically its not against the law.
Their have been a ton of posts on this subject and it has not helped. What might help is a letter writing campaign. Are you willing to start one? How about you Bentrod? Writing a blurb in a fishing report does NOTHING.
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This is kind of funny, the same cascading effect happens again and again in the fishing community. ;)
BB is tired of reading about snagging in reports on Saturday.
Some other members agree.
BentRod perceives it as people don't want to read about snagging on Sunday.
Readers perceive it as all members on the FWR forum don't want to read about snagging by Monday.
Readers perceive it as FWR forum is against writing about snagging by Tuesday.
The fishing community decides that Fishing with Rod, the website, is not against snagging by Wednesday.
Still no time to put in my feedbacks, going fishing right now. ;D
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You go fishing. I'll stay home and watch football all day long. Their is no need to worry about snaggers when watching the great sport of NFL football ;)
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BB, I have already written several letters and emails to electeds. And, I continue to have conversations with a few Council members in Chilliwack. I have also posted some of these letters on FWR. Being that I have no legal standing in BC and no voting power, my voice only carries so much weight. However, I will continue to be active from afar, and will do so until I am dead. If you think writing a blurb does nothing. Again, I disagree. Just look at how many people have read this thread and others on the issue. I think Rod has done all sportsmen a favor by giving us the opportunity to discuss these issues in such a way. Enjoy your football everyone, I'm cleaning my steelhead today and getting ready for hockey tonight.
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Just look at how many people have read this thread and others on the issue.
Thats right and its in General Discussion ;)
Good football so far the Cowboys are getting spanked LOL
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Always good to see the cowboys get spanked.
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well said
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Not sure if this is the right thread, but here goes. I drove out to the Vedder today with a buddy who described a situation to me, which I will pass on to you. He was flipping through the channels last night (Saturday- Oct 18th) and came across the Multi-cultural channel which had a fishing show on. He noted that they were fishing for Chum so, although he could not understand the dialogue, he decided to watch the program. Before too long he started to recognize the river a bit, and the more he watched the more he realized it was filmed on the Vedder. During the course of the program, the people fishing were snagging fish, catching them in the belly etc, then keeping them. Another scene apparently had the fishermen gutting a fish whilst it appeared alive. Now, I DID NOT SEE THE SHOW FIRST HAND, so the facts may be not spot on. Also he could not understand what was being said (i.e. whether or not this behavior was being condoned) - but he was concerned about the video portion of the show. >:(
If his description of the program was accurate (he is an investigator with Environment Canada, so I assume he is pretty clear on his observations), then this type of fishing behavior may be being perpetuated on television with an ethnic population that may or may not have a good comprehension of the English language. If so, that is a problem and needs to be taken up with the shows producers etc.
My question is -- has anyone else seen this show? I would prefer to have this information verified before I start contacting the Multi-cultural channel?
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EV, what language was the program?
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He thought it was Korean - but could be wrong.
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I agree with Brian as well. Who'd a thunk it. I refuse to ruin a decent report (notice I said decent report, no great!!) with the mention of.... well, you know.
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Has it really gotten worse?
I think it is actually getting better from what ive been reading.
At least now everyone admits those fish are being snagged and not actuallly biting the wool. ;D
This one is going to take a long time but eventually it will phase out.
I said eventually. ::)
Wrong, it has not gotten better and it's not going to without an organized effort to combat it.
I think what bbronswyk2000 meant is that we don't have to talk about every time we report on something but there should be some discussion and awareness of it.
Wrong again, fish bite the wool. Some wool.
On some days I catch 15-20 chum in a day and not one is foul hooked.
Usually when it turns on for a few hours you get a fish every 4th or 5th cast. Then the bite turns off and I can't get one for hours.
How do you explain that some people catch more chum in the same run at the same time?
The color of wool.
So they do bite.
However, I can see where you are coming from...
Snaggers will put wool when they are fishing the fast water, because it doesn't make sense to just have a bare hook.
I'm turning this into another snagging thread... sorry bbronswyk2000.
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Has it really gotten worse?
I think it is actually getting better from what ive been reading.
At least now everyone admits those fish are being snagged and not actuallly biting the wool. ;D
This one is going to take a long time but eventually it will phase out.
I said eventually. ::)
I think what bbronswyk2000 meant is that we don't have to talk about every time we report on something but there should be some discussion and awareness of it.
I'm turning this into another snagging thread... sorry bbronswyk2000.
BINGO!!!
Oh and no worries this is the place to talk about it.
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This is what happens in our society on so many fronts these days not just in fishing.
Blights like this are swept under the carpet so to speak and then they become the norm and become acceptable. I know many on this thread are not saying not to discuss it but I see nothing wrong in adding the observations one sees on fishing trips and when filing a report.
Hopefully those that read these posts will change their ways one day. I know I have converted and shown a few people how to take fish by making them bite.
We all know on the Vedder and many other systems a high percentage of people are just flossing, snagging and lining salmon and if we stop discussing it and trying to correct it sports angling will be lost forever. Don't you agree?
Definition of angling
Laws generally prohibit catching fish with hooks other than in the mouth (snagging or foul hooking) or the use of nets other than as an aid in landing a captured fish. Some species, such as bait fish, may be taken with nets, and a few for food. Sometimes, (non-sport) fish are considered of lesser value and it may be permissible to take them by methods like snagging, bow and arrow, or spear. None of these techniques fall under the definition of angling since they do not rely upon the use of a hook and line
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saw the same fishing show Saturday night. I want to say it was on Omni 10, but not 100% sure on that. Its a channel where they quite often do tv shows in different languages, like for people from India, also heard a talk show going on in German once, and that fishing show which was in an "asian/oriental" language.
Sorry, I honestly couldn't tell you the difference between Japanese, Chinese, Korean, etc. So I that's how I classify those types of languages. ;)
oh and Rod, don;t let the comments about being a good poster go to your head! :P ;D
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Head is already so big that I can't put the sweater on anymore. ;D
Omni on Saturday night, just took a look at the schedule and the only relevant program (the other ones are all movies) on that night was TV Korea Magazine at 10pm.
http://www.omnibc.ca/schedule/index.php?date=2008-10-18
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So Rod, how would you respond to that show? It would be a great idea to make a half hour program showing how to fish the rivers properly. Have this aired in different languages. I think producing fishing shows for the asian market is your calling! ;D
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So Rod, how would you respond to that show? It would be a great idea to make a half hour program showing how to fish the rivers properly. Have this aired in different languages. I think producing fishing shows for the asian market is your calling! ;D
That's one of the project on the list between FFSBC and me actually. It's only at the planning stage so can't really say much beyond that.
As for responding to the show, someone from DFO will be contacting it to inform them that regulations have been violated in the show and it should not be re-aired at the very least.
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Personally, I'd use the show as video confirmation of law breaking and prosecute. With that said, has DFO been hamstrung to the point that prossecution will not happen?
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Check out the short floating video with The Master that Rodney filmed last year at The Bell Run, it shows how its done. ;D ;D
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I love fishin I try not to pay attention to what the guys around me are doing but boy its hard to turn a blind eye to some of the stuff i see year after year.
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Don't worry, if it keeps up, you won't have to turn a blind eye. There will be no fishery to turn a blind eye, let alone a good eye to.
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Personally, I'd use the show as video confirmation of law breaking and prosecute. With that said, has DFO been hamstrung to the point that prosecution will not happen?
In a polite or perhaps overly polite country like Canada we don't persecute or prosecute people for merely breaking laws or other morally repugnant acts. If that were the case most of the politicians and a ungodly number of DFO officials would be doing hard time for staying too long at the public trough so to speak. Hamstrung no, porked up yes. :P
I'm tired of it.
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Personally, I'd use the show as video confirmation of law breaking and prosecute. With that said, has DFO been hamstrung to the point that prossecution will not happen?
The first step is to confirm that the show aired and understand (translate) what was being said. Then it would be better for them to re-shoot the show with a positive message/technique and play the corrected program repeatedly. That would get a much better result than to charge the television company (with what??? for airing a crappy show???), or to try to find the perpetrator and charge them. This is a good opportunity to get a broad message out. IMO
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I'd like to see snagging become a new bylaw offence within the city of chilliwack. 500 dollars for a first offence, 1000 for a second offence. 2000 for a third.
That would take some of the pressure off the need for COs, and bylaw enforcement officers could collect mass cash, some proceeds could go to the clay slide repairs...
When COs hand out a ticket there is alot of court time that is associated with it. A bylaw officer with a video camera, and at least one witness could really clean this river up fast.
Anyone who rips the water, and subsequently snags a fish should be ticketed. Not just the retention of foul hooked fish. And any of us with camera phones should be able to record the offence, and call the bylaw officer.
The Vedder needs some serious help. It's a horror show out there. I'm going to write the city and propose this...
Cheers,
Nicole
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Just did a browse through the OMNI programming schedule and looking for re-airing since Bigfisher posted that he saw the program this morning. It looks like it might be replayed on Friday at 9:30am.
http://www.omnibc.ca/schedule/index.php?date=2008-10-24
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Nicole, RCMP, CO, Fishery Officer, Park Ranger and Officer under Wildlife Act can ALL enforce fishery regulation which is under Federal Wildlife Act. What's the use for redundency? Let along Federal is above municiple.
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Because all of these agencies are not doing their jobs with regards to this matter.
cheers,
Nicole
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Unfortunately they are the only officers that CAN regulate. Even if city bylaws are in effect they will still be the enforcement parties.
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If a city parking enforcement attendant can ticket a car that has a meter expired or is illegally parked, then that same level of officer can patrol and hand out tickets under a bylaw.
Something radical has to be done, before someone is put in the hospital or killed over this.
Cheers,
Nicole
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Something radical has to be done, before someone is put in the hospital or killed over this.
Is that a threat, Nicole?!? :o
LOL... Kidding of course.
I agree, and sign me up for any help that I can give to a cause going forward. Let's get this going!
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The show on friday will be carrying a different issue. Everyweek they bring a story from Korean community in Vancouver.
I guess that the producer for the show doesn't what he was doing. They are just dealing with anything they hit.
Oh~ One more thing!! When the snagged fish landed on the show, they narate "snagged fish must be released" in Korean, but not English subtitle. This is All I heard from my buddy.
Bravo~ ;D
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Thanks Bravo, that's what I was afraid of.
Now I don't have to get up so early to watch the show. ;D ;D ;D
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Something radical has to be done, before someone is put in the hospital or killed over this.
Is that a threat, Nicole?!? :o
LOL... Kidding of course.
I agree, and sign me up for any help that I can give to a cause going forward. Let's get this going!
heh, no way! I am non violent in every way... Except for hatchery fish, I have no problem with them ;)
I'm just worried some out there is going to snap... It's time to take our rivers back from this evil cancer.
Cheers,
Nicole
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If a city parking enforcement attendant can ticket a car that has a meter expired or is illegally parked, then that same level of officer can patrol and hand out tickets under a bylaw.
Something radical has to be done, before someone is put in the hospital or killed over this.
Cheers,
Nicole
Yes except parking is city bylaw. Fishery is federal. Unless DFO is willing to subsidize and give cities the jurisdiction, municipal can not cross jurisdiction.
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well, I'll let you know what the city says...
Cheers,
Nicole
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Thank you for your input. :D