Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Old Black Dog on August 25, 2007, 04:12:14 PM
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Indigenous organization calls for protection of BC fishery
August 23, 2007 - by Joseph Quesnel
Indigenous groups in British Columbia are calling on the federal government to help them protect the sockeye fishery.
The First Nations Leadership Council, called upon Loyola Hearn, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans,to discuss the protection of the sockeye resource and Aboriginal fishing rights and work with BC First Nations on a priority basis to ensure the protection of the 2007 sockeye fishery.
“Without question the conservation of the sockeye fishery is the primary concern for all First Nations along the Fraser River. This has clearly been illustrated by the Tseil Waututh First Nation’s commendable decision to forgo their sockeye fishery this year in the name of conservation,” said Grand Chief Edward John, a member of the First Nations Summit political executive. “However, many First Nations are understandably frustrated with DFO’s inconsistent fisheries management and allocation methods which continue to put the fishery at risk.”
First Nations in the Fraser Basin are frustrated that DFO officials continue to allow a 2007 sport and commercial fishery. Despite low sockeye returns, DFO advised First Nations that conservation was not a concern and still proceeded to charge a significant number of Musqueam and Sto:lo fishermen. Meanwhile, alleged the press release, sport and recreational fishers continued to fish within view of the protest fishery, which they stated is a "complete contradiction of the rule of law according to the Sparrow decision."
“DFO has once again shown that they have absolutely no regard for First Nations legal and constitutional right to fish for food, social and ceremonial purposes, a right that is second only to conservation”, said Grand Chief Stewart Phillip, President of the Union of BC Indian Chiefs. “The First Nations Leadership Council are in full and complete support of First Nations Statements that “the Department of Fisheries and Oceans’ attempts to keep the First Nations off the fishing grounds are in violation of a Supreme Court of Canada decision” (Sparrow decision, 1990).
“We are calling for Minister Hearn to direct his officials to immediately halt all commercial and sport fisheries and to respect the rule of law by giving priority to the First Nations fishery after conservation needs are met”, said Shawn Atleo, BC Regional Chief of the Assembly of First Nations. “First Nations will not stand by and continue to allow the Government of Canada’s mismanagement of this valuable resource.
The First Nations Leadership Council is also calling on Minister Hearn to meet in person to discuss how DFO and BC First Nations can work in partnership to protect sustainable and healthy salmon stocks for all future generations.
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You know, if the day even comes where the govt. tells me that I am not allowed to fish, EVER, and all the fish in the river belong to FN, then the rule of law is for all intents and purposes null and void.
An unfair law can't be enforced, people will just not comply.
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Up until 1996 there was no sockeye fishery and people had no problem complying, everyone realizes that the fn pressure helped to get the river closed, but would th FN pressure been as great or as effective if the sports fishery had not totally ignored the DFO's request that we selectively fish for springs. The FN's may have pulled the trigger but the sports fishermen definitely gave them the ammunition.
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Do you think the FN will ever stop gravel mining their rivers? You can get as many fish to the river as you want, but if the river is destroyed and they have no where to spawn and no side channels for rearing, all the fishing restrictions in the world won't help them.
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Up until 1996 there was no sockeye fishery and people had no problem complying, everyone realizes that the fn pressure helped to get the river closed, but would th FN pressure been as great or as effective if the sports fishery had not totally ignored the DFO's request that we selectively fish for springs. The FN's may have pulled the trigger but the sports fishermen definitely gave them the ammunition.
The F/N tried through the courts to get us off the river and lost.
A small group of the sports angers raised their concerns in the press of flossing and the F/N then used this to get it closed.
We are wonderfull about fighting among ourselves.
There has been no science in all of this and till there is and real counts are done on the river it is so much speculation.
If there is an ethic problem then deal with that for what it is.
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Who knows whats goes on behind closed doors at these dfo and FN meetings but what it looks like to me so the same touble makers (cheam, sto lo, etc) are up to their same old tricks. The thing that really pisses me off is that they (first nations) must know the sport impact on sockeye is small. Especially when there is no sockeye opening. Yes there is a by catch of sockeye in the chinook fishery but I think a majority of those socs are released. There may be some small issues with sports poaching but really, the FN assembly are using the sports fishers as scape goats to justify their own poaching. Those who refuse to stay off the water and fish have us to use as a bit of a "human rights" shield....ie ie sporties are fishing (who cares for what) then its the FN contstitutional right to fish for food and cerimonial purposes.
Even if flossing wasnt the issue it is right now i think DFO's position would be similiar simply due to the natives. Until they gain control of this FN fishery and its associated problems, we are going to be held hostage season after season.
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If you guys think it's bad now wait untill all the settlements take place. Ask the guys up north.
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Apparently there were still people bottom bouncing today on the fraser... Gutsy!
DFO was towing an aluminum native boat, who was trying to do a drift... Maybe it was siezed? I have no idea.
Apparently they were going around in circles, it looked like they didn't know what to do with it...
Cheers,
Nicole
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Clean it up, drag it out to sea, sink it, use as an artificial reef. ;D
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August 26th, 2007
Honourable Loyola Hearn, Minister
Fisheries and Oceans Canada
House of Commons,
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0E6
Dear Mr. Minister:
I am writing to you at this time to request you direct your DFO staff in Pacific Region to reopen the recreational fishery in the Fraser River between Mission and Hope at the start of the this coming week. Tthe target species to be Pink salmon and Chinook salmon. We make this request with the realization that you and your staff have an ongoing concern for the well being of this year’s Fraser River Sockeye returns. You may be assured that the recreational fishing sector shares those concerns and has worked hard over this summer to minimize if not eliminate any impact our fishery might have.
However the test fishing results over the past 4 or 5 days make it clear that the Fraser River Sockeye return for 2007 is virtually over. The fact that Canada approved the opening of commercial salmon fishing in the Pacific Salmon Treaty waters this past week, is proof positive that the numbers of Sockeye are going down and the concern over interception with it.
At the same time we are aware of the current estimate of a surplus of some 10 million Pink salmon already entering the Fraser River and they are now beginning to swamp the numbers of Sockeye in the river. The style of fishing for Pinks is totally different than that used to intercept Sockeye, but even if it were not, the simple numbers of Pinks in the river make it virtually impossible to get your fishing gear down to intercept Sockeye. Representatives in the recreational fishing community in the Chilliwack area have been advised by the DFO Area Director for the Lower Fraser River that he and his staff are prepared to sign off on an opening but he has not received the go-ahead from Vancouver DFO Headquarters. You have the authourity to order this approval and a duty to the people of Canada to see that this opening takes place.
We understand that there are not adequate Fraser River Sockeye stocks to provide for First Nations FSC requirements. We would suggest however that with a 10 million surplus in Pink Salmon returns to this river, there are more than enough fish to provide for any FSC needs. We would also strongly question the claim by for example representatives of the Cheam Band, that they are badly in need of fish. A number of your DFO staff and our members observed part of the Cheam gillnet fishery this past Friday and they also observed that when the nets were brought to shore and the fish taken out, many perfectly good Pink salmon, killed in the gillnet were simply thrown back into the river dead! If there is a need for fish for food, why are these perfectly good fish being thrown away? Most certainly all of us would rather eat steak for dinner than stew, but when there is no steak or no way to acquire some, and there is stew, we eat the stew. The point being Mr. Minister that while there may not be adequate stocks of the First Nations preferred fish. Sockeye, available for FSC, due to the quirks of ocean production, there remains more than adequate protein of equal food value in the 10 million Pink salmon and the million or so Chum salmon that are and will be returning.
The reopening of the river to the recreational angler will have no impact on the ability of Sockeye to pass through and reach the spawning grounds or be taken by the upriver First Nations, who have received little in the way of any fish this year and do not have the option of taking Pink salmon in their areas.
This closure has had a tremendous negative economic impact on the recreational fishing industry, a negative impact that will be felt through the loss of business of people who came in 2007 and were not allowed to fish and as a consequence will not be back in 2008, if ever.
We repeat, the opening of the river between Mission and Hope to the recreational fishery will have no negative impact on Sockeye stocks but a major positive economic impact on our industry. We urge you to move immediately to bring about this reopening.
Yours in conservation:
Bill Otway, President
Sport Fishing Defence Alliance
P.O. Box 326, Merritt, B.C.
V1K 1B8
Cc – Hon Stockwell Day
Cc – Hon Chuck Strahl
Cc – Gary Breitkreuz
Cc – Randy Kamp
Cc – Paul Sprout
Cc – MLA’s
Cc – Members SDA
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Apparently there were still people bottom bouncing today on the fraser... Gutsy!
Being a law school dropout (did 1 year at McGill) I'm curious what the legal standard for "intent" would be if a bottom bouncer was fishing on the fraser in the closed areas. I would think simply saying that you were targeting non-salmon species, the burden of proof would reside on the DFO to prove their case. And unless you had a salmon in your possession, the court would throw the fine out. I don't think the DFO officer could say "everybody who bottom bounces MUST be fishing for salmon" and the court would blindly accept that as enough.
Interesting stuff anyways...
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The courts in Washington have given quite a bit of leeway to officers expert opinions. In most cases, if it looks like a dog and barks like a dog, it is a dog.
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How has the recreational fishing sector worked hard to minimize if not eliminate any impact the fishery might have, by only dragging the sockeye they plan on releasing up the gravel bar one kick away from the river instead of two perhaps by only standing on them with one foot when removing the hook, how about only killling them and hiding them in the bush when they thought nobody was looking. Mr. Otway was obviously not fishing in between Hope and Rosedale in the last two weeks befor the river was closed or he would have witnessed the crap that was going on, you can't just say that the recreational fishermen have cleaned up their act when in fact they were getting worse and worse as the summer progressed.
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or he would have witnessed the crap that was going on, you can't just say that the recreational fishermen have cleaned up their act when in fact they were getting worse and worse as the summer progressed.
So you witnessed recreational fisherman killing sockeye?
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Being a law school dropout (did 1 year at McGill) I'm curious what the legal standard for "intent" would be if a bottom bouncer was fishing on the fraser in the closed areas. I would think simply saying that you were targeting non-salmon species, the burden of proof would reside on the DFO to prove their case. And unless you had a salmon in your possession, the court would throw the fine out. I don't think the DFO officer could say "everybody who bottom bounces MUST be fishing for salmon" and the court would blindly accept that as enough.
Interesting stuff anyways...
True, can you imagine the look on the officer's face when the guy blurts out that he's fishing for cutts...
LOL
Nicole
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RE: the letter, no encouragement should be made to net chum for either commercials or FNs, as the bycatch is Thompson steelhead...
:(
Nicole
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The incident of people killing sockeye was not witnessed by me but it was reported within twenty minutes to a DFO boat in the area. No action was taken, it happened adjacent to the Katz reserve downstream from the pipeline crossing two days before the river was closed. There were a large group of Oriental fishermen had one section of bar tied up and were killing every fish they caught and giving them to their wives to hide in the bush, a friend of mine observed this from a boat and when going back up river pulled over the DFO boat and reported it to them. The officers told them that seeing as they did not witness it personally and could not go up into the reserve to search for the fish or prove who hid them there, there was nothing they could do about it.
In the incident of the person standing on the fish to unhook it was a female fisherperson and she was confronted by another fisherman he was flat out told to f off with her boyfriend standing behind her, as for people kicking fish back into the river you might as well be whistling into the wind as try to tell people how to release their catch.
I have no idea where you people that are defending this bottom bouncing as a ethical method of fishing go to fish but you should come up here during the week when the real meat hounds are out it would change a lot of peoples perspectives on the whole fishery. When the FN's stated that they had absolute proof that sports anglers were killing sockeye there is no question in my mind that they were telling the truth, not all the fishermen out there share the same ethical standards as the the ones on this forum like to believe they do.
As for Bill Otway, the last time I saw him on TV he was standing there with his bottom bouncing outfit holding up a sockeye that he had killed during a closed season, to some people that made him a hero to others it just made him look like another poaching snagger.
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Any group has loser/user in it...whether its sports poachers of Cheam and Stoh lo who fish regardless of stock numbers...there are always those who just don't give a rats ***. I think that they are in the minority though for both FNs and Sports Fishers. based on what I have been seeing here and in the news, many FN tribes are bowing out of this summers sockeye run. Like I said I think most people care and are responsible with the resource.
I don't know about you but I have chased people outta a run that were snagging fish and keeping them. There used to be the SOB who would floss and snag the ranger run. He use so much line he cast by swinging his gear in a circle above his head. When he hooked a fish he would wade in and take the hook out before "beaching" the fish or quickly throw it behind some rocks. Even on the far side of the ranger, we verbally harrassed him enough that he left the hole. I never let a sole get away with any B*** S*** like that on the river. I don't know about the situation you were in and I would never put myself in any danger but I think for the most part, the sporties self regulate.
That said, I do think a season or two with no sock fishing would be a good way to thin out some of these meet heads though.
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Being a law school dropout (did 1 year at McGill) I'm curious what the legal standard for "intent" would be if a bottom bouncer was fishing on the fraser in the closed areas. I would think simply saying that you were targeting non-salmon species, the burden of proof would reside on the DFO to prove their case. And unless you had a salmon in your possession, the court would throw the fine out. I don't think the DFO officer could say "everybody who bottom bounces MUST be fishing for salmon" and the court would blindly accept that as enough.
Interesting stuff anyways...
True, can you imagine the look on the officer's face when the guy blurts out that he's fishing for cutts...
LOL
Nicole
All you need is your steelhead tag... although one ought bar fish instead of bounce obviously. There is nothing they can do about it though.
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Intent is something hard to proof.
As for claim from FN, that sporties are killing socs, likewise, last year, this year, sporties has proofs FN were poaching.
It really doesn't matter what sporties do, FN (Sto:lo and Cheam) will find an excuse to get everyone off river, except for themselves.
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I have never witnessed sockeyes being killed this season. In fact any time a small fish is about to land, every one was observing keenly and checking if it was a sockeye.Some even helped newbies to properly release the fish. There are always the bad sheeps in any fishing style from any ethnic groups. Once I witnessed outrageious snagging of Cap coho by a Caucasion man right from the Woodcroft bridge. He did not even use any wool and dragged up every bellied hooked coho up to the bridge, how brutal. Called DFO and was told they would not be able to send enough CO to hide in the bush to catch these snaggers. LOL. Also reported to Big Qualicum hatchery about people snagging springs by the belly, one of them snaggers was a blonde guy, go figure, what ethnic background is exempt from doing this snagging of fish? To blame this to BBers, particularly Asian BBers is uncalled for. There are many coho fouled hooked by float fishing and kept by non-Asians. There is no need to pin-point to any method and any ethnic background.
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Ethnic steriotyping doesn't seem to be a problem on this forum, in this case those are the people that were doing it and that was the method that was being used, my point was that NOTHING was done this year by the sport fishery to minimize or eliminate the impact sports fishermen were having on the sockeye, if anything there were more people out there having a go at the sockeye than ever before during a spring only opening. I am an avid pink fly fisherman and am also depressed about the river being closed but until something is done to address the abuse of non targeted stocks to reopen the river would just be a travesty. To say that the sporties will use other methods to catch the pinks is a lie, if the river were too be opened tomorrow the bars would be covered with bottom bouncers again in no time right along with the other fishermen, there are a lot of people out there that know absolutely no other method with which to fish. As for the sockeye already being through the system the although it is not a peak year for the Adams River run the ones that do come keep coming right through September till early October.
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Everyone knows the mob mentality...well unfortunately thats kind of the problem with the fraser floss fishery. If one guy does it that one person then makes it OK for a bunch more and then the problem just snow balls.
One issue I think that needs to be address is guides taking clients out flossing. I saw several guide boats at one bar imparticular this season and I can't help but think that they really help to set the tone for the summer fishery. I am sure many guides wont book a trip to go floss but the ones that do really make it harder for our locals to stay off the water. Like I said that mob mentality IMO is a real issue and I think the guides in our province need to lead the industry in a better direction.
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Everyone knows the mob mentality...well unfortunately thats kind of the problem with the fraser floss fishery. If one guy does it that one person then makes it OK for a bunch more and then the problem just snow balls.
One issue I think that needs to be address is guides taking clients out flossing. I saw several guide boats at one bar imparticular this season and I can't help but think that they really help to set the tone for the summer fishery. I am sure many guides wont book a trip to go floss but the ones that do really make it harder for our locals to stay off the water. Like I said that mob mentality IMO is a real issue and I think the guides in our province need to lead the industry in a better direction.
every guide of the fraser valley angling guides association was requested not to bottom bounce on the fraser unless fisheries removed the request for selective methods.... not being able to speak for the guides that are not members, but please dont paint all guides with the same brush... FVAGA worked really hard this year to gurantee that they would lead by example. It is tough to explain to a client why we are not hooking any fish, while the BBers are drifting every 5 minutes...
bottom line is our sockeye return for 2007 is in trouble, instead of looking for your own short term gratification of killing a salmon lets look a little ahead in the future and lead by example... conservation is the most important part of our salmon season... ensuring that the fish are needed to reach the spawning beds is of utmost importance....
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The incident of people killing sockeye was not witnessed by me but it was reported within twenty minutes to a DFO boat in the area. No action was taken, it happened adjacent to the Katz reserve downstream from the pipeline crossing two days before the river was closed. There were a large group of Oriental fishermen had one section of bar tied up and were killing every fish they caught and giving them to their wives to hide in the bush, a friend of mine observed this from a boat and when going back up river pulled over the DFO boat and reported it to them. The officers told them that seeing as they did not witness it personally and could not go up into the reserve to search for the fish or prove who hid them there, there was nothing they could do about it.
In the incident of the person standing on the fish to unhook it was a female fisherperson and she was confronted by another fisherman he was flat out told to f off with her boyfriend standing behind her, as for people kicking fish back into the river you might as well be whistling into the wind as try to tell people how to release their catch.
I have no idea where you people that are defending this bottom bouncing as a ethical method of fishing go to fish but you should come up here during the week when the real meat hounds are out it would change a lot of peoples perspectives on the whole fishery. When the FN's stated that they had absolute proof that sports anglers were killing sockeye there is no question in my mind that they were telling the truth, not all the fishermen out there share the same ethical standards as the the ones on this forum like to believe they do.
As for Bill Otway, the last time I saw him on TV he was standing there with his bottom bouncing outfit holding up a sockeye that he had killed during a closed season, to some people that made him a hero to others it just made him look like another poaching snagger.
Your argument is very one sided Nosey. Picking the wrong doings of a few individuals and casting the blame to bbers as a whole is very narrow minded and unfair. From what I saw and heard compliance was very high with catching and releasing sockeye in the water properly but as always you paint a very different picture. The fact that DFO cannot go onto a reserve to search for poached fish is the major problem not the defiant family who killed a few. Your comment about Bill Otway again appears to serve your personal agenda as it only tells part of the story. For those who don't know Mr. Otway sacrificed one sockeye in order to challenge DFO in court over DFO reluctance/inability to stop the illegal fishing practices of the natives. The charges were later dropped by the spineless agency in charge of protecting OUR resource, therefore he was not able to take them to court. I guess they didn't want anything interfering with their hidden agenda mandate from Ottawa.
Here are some links to the previous threads on "Operation BBQ" :
http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?PHPSESSID=bb9a598649e4d80e8681ae19d847c604;topic=4560.0 (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?PHPSESSID=bb9a598649e4d80e8681ae19d847c604;topic=4560.0)
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http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?PHPSESSID=bb9a598649e4d80e8681ae19d847c604;board=1;action=display;threadid=4559
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http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?PHPSESSID=bb9a598649e4d80e8681ae19d847c604;topic=5020.0 (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?PHPSESSID=bb9a598649e4d80e8681ae19d847c604;topic=5020.0)
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Hi Nosey, did this happen on Aug. 18th Sat?
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Speaking of fishing on a reserve, could these people have actually been natives? The report as nosey states, came from a boat...how close did he get? Could he be incorrect in identifying them as asian vs FN?
All I know is that non-natives are not very welcome on reserve land especially when you are talking about being there to access AND poach sockeye. Imagine a group of sporties being caught by FN members (who cant even food fish) trespassing thru their reserve with a bunch of poached fish?!? That could get real messy.
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Nosey, I had spent a considerable time responding to your comments but somehow It was lost when I tried to hit post. I am not about to spend another 1/2 hour writing a new response so i will keep it short.
To say that the Sport fishing community has does nothing, does not only prove that you have very little knowledge of what is really going on but is insulting to those of us who have volunteered 100's of hours on behalf of all sportfisherman,
Second, on a normal year the anglers who participate in the sockeye fishery is 3000 to 5000 per day, that is DFO numbers. This year the counts are between 150 to 250 anglers per day fishing the entire river from Mission to Hope. How do you come up with the conclusion that the sport fishery is larger than in past years and that anglers are not complying with the request to avoid sockeye?
Comments like yours are becoming more common on forums like this. They come from listening to other uniformed people that make the same kind of comments with very little knowledge or using hear say to come to their conclusions. I suggest you spend less time typing and more time reading and getting involved in local issues.
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RE: The sockeye mortality study...
If it can be proven that socks are not dying because of catch and release, then the legal implications will be obvious...
However I doubt many of them would make it back, they would be caught in nets and the tags would be thrown away, lI doubt FNs would want to cooperate with this.
Few tagged fish would return, and a higher than normal mortality would be assumed... The sportsfishers would lose again, this time with a study that proves the FNs claims.
Not sure how controls could be built in to keep the results from being skewed.
Cheers,
Nicole
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RE: The sockeye mortality study...
If it can be proven that socks are not dying because of catch and release, then the legal implications will be obvious...
However I doubt many of them would make it back, they would be caught in nets and the tags would be thrown away, lI doubt FNs would want to cooperate with this.
Few tagged fish would return, and a higher than normal mortality would be assumed... The sportsfishers would lose again, this time with a study that proves the FNs claims.
Not sure how controls could be built in to keep the results from being skewed.
Cheers,
Nicole
They can't be because in reality the government doesn't give a damn about sporties period...Everyone can play all the lip service they want to this issue but it's not going to change one damn thing...DFO is here for the express purpose of making sure the Indians get their fish...Commerical is second but way down their list of concerns..and sporties are non existant to them...This continued debate and finger pointing by guys who brag about the trouble they cause on their home forums is ridiculous...
Everyone needs to realize that nothing is going to change EVER until the fish are gone and while the Indians will be the main contributors by netting completely across the rivers, throwing pinks and chum on the banks to die etc. The fish farms SUPPORTED by the b.c. government are to blame just as much if not more so...
It's politics's boys and girls and your not gonna win a gunfight by spitting water...which is giving more credit to spitting water then it's due...I don't think IMO that anything we can do or say will make a damn bit of difference...Even if we all stop bitching and become one front and fight this I doubt are chances are more then 10% that DFO or the Feds will do more then lip service to us....BUT at least that's 10% more then we have now...So, Either join a group and organize and get ready to fight and I mean actually fight, using your fists or more if you have too, then your wasting your time and mine and you will see the end of the salmon in your lifetime...IMHO..
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Maybe its time to forget about the Sockeye as a sport fish.
Things were actually very good out on the river before this new fishery came along.
The hard work of others over the years to have a fishery for Chinook has been undermined by those advocating this joke of a so called sport fishery.
We can fish for all other species of Salmon and Steelhead.
Lets get back to how it once was and worked for all them years.
I also would have a very hard time donating money to organizations that approve and are lobbying for BBing.
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im not one for long words, so i say give the socs and only the socs to the fn to controll under there own laws! then we will really see what happens to them.
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im not one for long words, so i say give the socs and only the socs to the fn to controll under there own laws! then we will really see what happens to them.
When that happens, makes sure none of my paid tax money went into sockeye programs. ;)
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Minister Hearn Announces Survey Results of Recreational Fishing in Canada
August 28, 2007
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OTTAWA – The Honourable Loyola Hearn, Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, today announced the results of the 2005 Survey of Recreational Fishing in Canada. The 2005 survey was the seventh in a series, produced every five years since 1975, and is the most comprehensive assessment of recreational fishing conducted in Canada.
"This survey highlights that millions of Canadians and tourists continue to enjoy recreational fishing in Canada's oceans, rivers and lakes every year, and Canada's New Government is committed to ensuring that our future generations can also enjoy activities like recreational fishing," said Minister Hearn. "That is why we are taking action to conserve, protect and improve Canada's vast water resources, through initiatives such as our new National Water Strategy announced in Budget 2007."
The survey found that in 2005, over 3.2 million adult anglers participated in a variety of recreational fishing activities in Canada. Participation rates, however, have been on a downward trend in most provinces and territories over the past 10 years. This trend is partially attributed to changing lifestyles and other activities that compete for limited leisure time.
The population of active adult anglers continued to age. More than half of the Canadian anglers were in the 45-64 age group, whereas only 26% of the general Canadian population falls within the same age range.
The average number of days fished per angler remained relatively unchanged over the past ten years at 13 days. Canadian non-resident and foreign anglers made over two million trips within Canada in 2005.
In total, anglers caught 215 million fish of all species in 2005 and retained nearly 72 million fish. The success of catch and release programs is a testament to the importance of conservation to anglers in Canada. Resident anglers caught 157 million fish, followed by foreign anglers who caught 54 million fish, with the remainder being caught by non-residents.
Walleye was the predominant species caught in 2005, surpassing trout for the first time since the survey was first conducted in 1975. Other top species were trout, perch, bass and northern pike.
In 2005, anglers contributed a total of $7.5 billion to various local economies in Canadian provinces and territories, up 12% from the $6.7 billion estimate in 2000. The most recent survey showed that total investments that were directly attributable to recreational fishing reached $2.5 billion in 2005.
The survey presents information about recreational fishing activities and describes the socio-economic contribution of these fisheries in Canada. It was conducted by Fisheries and Oceans Canada, in cooperation with the fisheries and licensing agencies of all provinces and territorial governments.
To access the survey report on-line, please visit DFO's Statistical Services web site: http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.cs/communic/statistics/recreational/canada/2005/index_e.htm.
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im not one for long words, so i say give the socs and only the socs to the fn to controll under there own laws! then we will really see what happens to them.
The Alaskans and other US fisheries would still get their piece of the pie. Also the unruly bands on the lower who (quote from a sto:lo member upriver) "think they own the river" would most likely continue to catch as many as they can and give the others a bad name. We need the government and courts to put these bands in line with conservation concerns before it's too late. I think we all know over fishing by FN is a one of the problems facing the sockeye and I for one don't want to see them catch the last one. Once that happens the natives would probably be happy to do a joint venture with government/industry to dam the Fraser. Worst case scenario but still a possibility.
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Just to keep you guys in the loop, The Fraser Panel met yesterday, the majority of the Canadian panel approved an opening for the Fraser River Sport fishery for Pinks & Chinook. Paul Ryall who chairs this group should have immediatly announced an opening for Fraser River Sport Fishing but has again stalled. To make matters worse the Canadian portion of the Fraser Panel at the same time approved an extension for a 4 day USA commercial fishery on Fraser River Pinks with Sockeye as a by-catch.
There is an order for non-retention but as these nets are over 200 fathoms in length and 90 meshes deep with a two hour drift, past studies show release mortalities in excess of 90%.
As far as I am concerned Paul Ryall should be removed from Chair and from the Fraser Panel all together. He actions not only show his inability to make informed decissions but also shows his contempt to all British Columbians and total disregard for Canadians right to sport fish for our own fish before approving a US commercial fishery.
On another note, I don't want to start a debate on sockeye fishing but I would ask you to think about this idea and provide a short reply.
The angling community is clearly divided by the ongoing Fraser river Sockeye Fishery. Why? maybe because we all call it something different, some call it fishing, some call it snagging, flossing, linning, bottom bouncing, some call it unethical, some call it a meat fishery or harvest. One of the main reasons for all of the infighting is that we really don't know what it is and every British Columbian calls it something different. There is no other fishery that I know of that we don't know exactly what it is.
What if we were to define what sockeye fishing really is? Call it what it is, define it, regulate it and enforce the definition. We could then all stop arguing over what our interpretation of sockeye fishing is and move on to solving all the issues surrounding it.
The current fishing regulations have definitions for barbless hook, bait ban, fly fishing, Chumming, down -rigging etc. They also have a Special restrictions/Notes section where there is also definitions for No Fishing, Catch & Release, Special Quota's, etc etc. The definition for sockeye fishing could be in one or both places.
For example: Definition of sockeye fishing - Bottom Bouncing with a weight, swivel and leader in excess of 1 meter.
This simple definition would allow a managment tool for DFO to open and close all rivers to sockeye fishing and at the same time, controling leader lengths without restricting the method of fishing called bottom bouncing. When DFO announces "no sockeye fishing" the defination would apply to all rivers listed in their announcement. During steelhead or Chinook season on the Vedder, there is a no sockeye fishing put in place and any angler bottom bouncing with a leader in excess of 1 meter could then be fined.
When the Fraser has conservation concerns for sockeye, simple " no Sockeye fishing" is enforced and anyone bb with long leaders are fined. It's simple, effective and clear. We can then all stop arguing over what it is and move onto other things.
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Remember that this
DFO is preparing a regulatory submission that would make it possible to implement the mandatory use of circle hooks in certain places and at certain times when fishing for salmon. The main cause of mortality in released sport-caught fish is organ and gill damage. This damage occurs when a fish is “deep-hooked,” that is the hook catches in the fish’s gut when it is set by the angler. Circle hooks are a valuable conservation tool in certain fisheries as they are less likely to deep-hook a fish and therefore have a lower post-release mortality rate than traditional J-hooks
is coming down the pipe too.
This will DRASTICALLY lower the catch.
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Why do we want to continue a fishery that has turned the fishing community upside down?
Lets get rid of the Sockeye fishery alltogether.
If you want Sockeye that bad either buy them or fish for them where they actually bite.In the ocean.
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Although I have the highest regard for Bill Otway, this is one subject that I completely disagree on. Circle hooks may be useful in saltwater where fish are activley feeding but in freshwater, salmon don't feed, they react. We did try them for sturgeon a few years back and were not very successful at hooking fish. The only time they work is when the fish aggressivly take the bait. Having said that there maybe some specific fisheries on the Fraser where curcle hooks may work, for eg; the bar fishery in the lower river where rods are placed in rod holders and biat is used.
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firstlight, I hear what you are saying but that is not a workable, agreeable solution because the majority of people still want to fish for sockeye regardless of the method. The definition would be a way to resolve the conflicts and give fishery managers the tools to manage( god forbid)
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Circle hooks are not good for groundfish also. In some cases, they are harder to unhook than regular hooks. When fish is tight liped it's hard to get to the hook as there's nothing sticking out of the mouth. The new Gammy barbless hook is a good hook. It's barbless and it's shape makes it easy to release fish. (a bit too easy, if line slacks abit you can loose alot of fish)
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Just to keep you guys in the loop, The Fraser Panel met yesterday, the majority of the Canadian panel approved an opening for the Fraser River Sport fishery for Pinks & Chinook. Paul Ryall who chairs this group should have immediatly announced an opening for Fraser River Sport Fishing but has again stalled. To make matters worse the Canadian portion of the Fraser Panel at the same time approved an extension for a 4 day USA commercial fishery on Fraser River Pinks with Sockeye as a by-catch.
There is an order for non-retention but as these nets are over 200 fathoms in length and 90 meshes deep with a two hour drift, past studies show release mortalities in excess of 90%.
As far as I am concerned Paul Ryall should be removed from Chair and from the Fraser Panel all together. He actions not only show his inability to make informed decissions but also shows his contempt to all British Columbians and total disregard for Canadians right to sport fish for our own fish before approving a US commercial fishery.
On another note, I don't want to start a debate on sockeye fishing but I would ask you to think about this idea and provide a short reply.
The angling community is clearly divided by the ongoing Fraser river Sockeye Fishery. Why? maybe because we all call it something different, some call it fishing, some call it snagging, flossing, linning, bottom bouncing, some call it unethical, some call it a meat fishery or harvest. One of the main reasons for all of the infighting is that we really don't know what it is and every British Columbian calls it something different. There is no other fishery that I know of that we don't know exactly what it is.
What if we were to define what sockeye fishing really is? Call it what it is, define it, regulate it and enforce the definition. We could then all stop arguing over what our interpretation of sockeye fishing is and move on to solving all the issues surrounding it.
The current fishing regulations have definitions for barbless hook, bait ban, fly fishing, Chumming, down -rigging etc. They also have a Special restrictions/Notes section where there is also definitions for No Fishing, Catch & Release, Special Quota's, etc etc. The definition for sockeye fishing could be in one or both places.
For example: Definition of sockeye fishing - Bottom Bouncing with a weight, swivel and leader in excess of 1 meter.
This simple definition would allow a managment tool for DFO to open and close all rivers to sockeye fishing and at the same time, controling leader lengths without restricting the method of fishing called bottom bouncing. When DFO announces "no sockeye fishing" the defination would apply to all rivers listed in their announcement. During steelhead or Chinook season on the Vedder, there is a no sockeye fishing put in place and any angler bottom bouncing with a leader in excess of 1 meter could then be fined.
When the Fraser has conservation concerns for sockeye, simple " no Sockeye fishing" is enforced and anyone bb with long leaders are fined. It's simple, effective and clear. We can then all stop arguing over what it is and move onto other things.
Interesting.
So you are considering a regulation that could effect all the rivers in the Province.
If so, then you need to have this discussion with ALL the anglers on all the other rivers FIRST.
Remember, you proposal allows all management to pass this regulation on to any river in the Province.
I am sure the people who fish up north would like to discuss this first.
Any time you go into the tackle box it effects all the people not just a few on the Fraser.
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Although I have the highest regard for Bill Otway, this is one subject that I completely disagree on. Circle hooks may be useful in saltwater where fish are activley feeding but in freshwater, salmon don't feed, they react. We did try them for sturgeon a few years back and were not very successful at hooking fish. The only time they work is when the fish aggressivly take the bait. Having said that there maybe some specific fisheries on the Fraser where curcle hooks may work, for eg; the bar fishery in the lower river where rods are placed in rod holders and biat is used.
I believe there has been a number of studies done on circle hooks. U.S. has done some.
The concern regarding SNAGGING drops dramatically using these hooks and that is the reason for the proposed regulation change.
They were also I believe tested on the Fraser as well.
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Whats the difference if you snag them in the belly or the mouth.
Its all snagging no matter how you look at it.
Quit fighting for a fishery that has been nothing but a bone of contention since its inception.
Sure its an easy fishery for the uneducated and paying type but we all know that this fishery is wrong and that it doesnt belong anywhere the term sportfishing.
If you want to fish Sockeye buy some downriggers and head to the salt.
Lets give these Sockeye back to the FN and commie fishers and get on with what once was a great river to fish.
Vic i am disapointed in you guys for lobbying to keep this mockery of fishing afloat.
You guides and guide services should know better and should be ashamed of yourselves.
I though i appreciated what you did for the industry but it is becoming all to clear that you also see dollar bills when the Sockeye swim up the Fraser just like some FN groups do.
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If you want to fish Sockeye buy some downriggers and head to the salt.
I tried.... but I just can't manage to stay afloat treading water with the Rod/downriggers etc.... And like 95% of the rest of the anglers out there a BOAT isn't in my future for various reasons.
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Either hire one of the many charter boats available or target fish in rivers that actually bite. ;)
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Blackdog, I understand what you are saying and i am not trying to tell the rest of British Columbia what they should do, I am however trying to start dialog that may be useful, the "don't go into my tackle box" argument has been around forever and it's time that we look at all options including going into the leader box. I thought perhaps that if we used definitions as a method of control, we could stay out of the tackle box, ie: only restricting leader lengths not the method of Bottom bouncing. If the rest of BC wants to continue with the "don't go in my tackle box" argument, so beit but the Fraser Valley has some real issues that need to be dealt with locally. How we do that, not sure, but we have to start somehwere.
Firstlight, I am not lobbying for sockeye fishing, I am lobbying for the river to re-open to salmon fishing. What my personal opinion is regarding bb for sockeye is quite clear to those that know me. I however represent a group of anglers that do want to bb for sockeye during years/runs that there are no conservation concerns, I can't see why they shouldn't be able to do it when millions of salmon are present. During years like this year, the FVAGA is totally behind the request to not bb for sockeye and have been leaders in this area.
The bottom line is that taking a hard stand on either position and not allowing for some kind of comprimise will only lead us to distruction and lose of all fishing opportunities. it's time to try to come to some sort of middle ground and work towards a better fishery/future for all of us and our children to follow. the way we are going, there will be nothing left.
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Category(s):
RECREATIONAL - Salmon
Fishery Notice - Fisheries and Oceans Canada
Subject: FN0636-RECREATIONAL: SALMON - Region 2 - Retention of Pink, Chinook and Chum Salmon in Non-tidal Waters of the Fraser River
Effective 00:01 hours Friday, August 31, 2007 until further notice fishing for
Pink, Chinook, Coho and Chum salmon is permitted on the non-tidal Fraser River
from the Mission Bridge upstream to the Highway No. 1 Bridge at Hope, BC.
The daily limit for Chinook salmon is four (4) per day, only one of which may
be greater than 62 cm.
The daily limit for Pink salmon is two (2) per day.
The daily limit for Chum salmon is two (2) per day.
The daily limit for Coho salmon is zero (0) per day.
The daily limit for Pink salmon will be reviewed when an in-season run size is
available for pink salmon.
At this time there is no recreational fishing permitted for Sockeye salmon.
The purpose of the no fishing restriction is to ensure sufficient sockeye
escapement for conservation purposes.
While fishing for Pink salmon in this area, the Department requests that the
recreational community take every measure possible to ensure that their fishing
activities are not impacting sockeye salmon.
Additional measures to protect Interior Fraser River Coho will be announced via
a separate fishery notice. In addition, a recreational retention fishery for
hatchery marked Coho salmon is anticipated to be announced in mid October via a
separate fishery notice.
Variation orders 2007-317; 2007-318; 2007-319; 2007-320.
Notes:
The aggregate daily limit for all species of Pacific Salmon (other than
kokanee) from tidal and non-tidal waters combined is four (4).
Barbless hooks are required when fishing for salmon in tidal and non-tidal
waters of British Columbia. This includes all species of fish in the Fraser
River.
Sport anglers are encouraged to participate in the voluntary Salmon Sport Head
Recovery program by labelling and submitting heads from adipose fin-clipped
Chinook and Coho salmon. Recovery of coded-wire tags provides critical
information for coast-wide stock assessment. Contact the Salmon Sport Head
Recovery Program at (866) 483-9994 for further information.
Did you witness suspicious fishing activity or a violation? If so, please call
the Fisheries and Ocean Canada 24-hour toll free Observe, Record, Report line
at (800) 465-4336.
For the 24 hour recorded opening and closure line, call toll free at (866) 431-
FISH.
Fisheries and Oceans Canada Operations Center - FN0636
Sent August 29, 2007 at 14:21
Visit us on the Web at http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca
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Effective 00:01 hours Friday, August 31, 2007
(http://www.norrishallshop.com/images/products/218.jpg)
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yawn..... 8)
anyone wanna buy a bb'ing rod hehehe i don't need mine anymore
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I think the notwithstanding clause should be used to over turn the sparrow decision. A race based fishery in this day and age is not needed.
Yet it is nice to buy cheap sockeye when I buy corn in Chilliwack..
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Why do we want to continue a fishery that has turned the fishing community upside down?
Lets get rid of the Sockeye fishery alltogether.
If you want Sockeye that bad either buy them or fish for them where they actually bite.In the ocean.
I think it is getting closer to this happening. It is so good to see a number of people turn around their opinions after the events of the last two weeks and put their opinions in print. Some still hold on to the views donot get into the tackle box. However if we are to still gain access to some fish species on the Fraser in the years ahead we will have too. I now believe the momentum on this issue is now gaining strenght. FOC has given the angling community another chance to comply, lets hope they grab onto it this time. ;D ;D
Got to get some chinook jacks in the smoker. ;D ;D ;D
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I think it is time to get rid of all bait in flowing water, absolutely no reason to use guts to catch fish. It only leads to the killing of too many female fish. Might as well go all the way and make flowing water fly only. ;D If Chris wants to go into tackle boxes i think my opinions are worth considering. ;D
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Why do we want to continue a fishery that has turned the fishing community upside down?
Lets get rid of the Sockeye fishery alltogether.
If you want Sockeye that bad either buy them or fish for them where they actually bite.In the ocean.
I think it is getting closer to this happening. It is so good to see a number of people turn around their opinions after the events of the last two weeks and put their opinions in print. Some still hold on to the views don't get into the tackle box. However if we are to still gain access to some fish species on the Fraser in the years ahead we will have too. I now believe the momentum on this issue is now gaining strenght. FOC has given the angling community another chance to comply, lets hope they grab onto it this time. ;D ;D
Got to get some chinook jacks in the smoker. ;D ;D ;D
The point is that closing of the Fraser had nothing to do with flossing and everything to do with the F/N wanting all sportys off the water.
With the help of the sportys, DFO did this.
Further it is now shown it had nothing to do with the conservation of sockeye as DFO has allowed even futher killing of them.
The people who I now see are upset about about flossing, however all of them have done it.
Now just as reformed smokers they feel it is bad and should stop.
This is all about "ethics" and as "all of you taught them how to floss", if you want them to cease then "you "teach them why and how.
Don't try and move this to the tackle box as it does not belong there.
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Its a tackle box problem so why wouldnt we want to get into the tackle box.
What is this getting into the tackle box anyways?
They allready have regs. out there that get into the tackle box.
There isnt a way to get these fish to commonly bite in the Fraser so why beat a dead horse over tackle?
The fishery has been bad for everyone other than tackle stores and charter operators and does nothing for the resource thats positive.
Why do we as sportsfishermen want to keep persuing this fishery?
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Why do we want to continue a fishery that has turned the fishing community upside down?
Lets get rid of the Sockeye fishery alltogether.
If you want Sockeye that bad either buy them or fish for them where they actually bite.In the ocean.
I think it is getting closer to this happening. It is so good to see a number of people turn around their opinions after the events of the last two weeks and put their opinions in print. Some still hold on to the views don't get into the tackle box. However if we are to still gain access to some fish species on the Fraser in the years ahead we will have too. I now believe the momentum on this issue is now gaining strenght. FOC has given the angling community another chance to comply, lets hope they grab onto it this time. ;D ;D
Got to get some chinook jacks in the smoker. ;D ;D ;D
The point is that closing of the Fraser had nothing to do with flossing and everything to do with the F/N wanting all sportys off the water.
With the help of the sportys, DFO did this.
Further it is now shown it had nothing to do with the conservation of sockeye as DFO has allowed even futher killing of them.
The people who I now see are upset about about flossing, however all of them have done it.
Now just as reformed smokers they feel it is bad and should stop.
This is all about "ethics" and as "all of you taught them how to floss", if you want them to cease then "you "teach them why and how.
Don't try and move this to the tackle box as it does not belong there.
It will be going there. ;D ;D ;D
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And a whole bunch of us will be pushing for fly only while fishing in moving water. ;D ;D It will solve all dfo's problems.
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And a whole bunch of us will be pushing for fly only while fishing in moving water. ;D ;D It will solve all dfo's problems.
Now will be agood time to start your lobby as more changes will be coming. I say that as I just got back from my river patrol of the Vedder and the Fraser and there is large numbers of people not fishing selectively, especially at Peg Leg. They are on the shore and from boats as well.
I feel sorry for the guides and tackle shop owners who worked so hard to get the river open again and then for many not to heed the request not to bottom bounce.
I wonder what FOC's next move will be.
I also saw FN drift nets in action at the AR Bridge both time I crossed it.
Pinks were moving through the Gill Road area I was informed by an angler I know.
Maybe worth tossing a colorado blade fished with a Maple Leaf Drennan. Hockey season is not far away, time to get rolling. ;D ;D