Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: BigFisher on September 24, 2006, 12:09:45 PM
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Almost. Fishing the canal from first light and at around 10:30 a snagger falls into the 5 foot snagging guantlet and gets sucked under. Everyone starts hollering and I walk over and see a guy sucked to the bottom of the river, no one knows what to do and we all start trying to snag him with are hooks, hoping to pull him out, it didnt work. His body quickly undressed and dived in for him, and the lucky guy was pushed and pulled into shallow waters. He was faint, and a couple guy were on the phone with emergency, while me and another guy ran down to Kieth Wilson road to guide the ambulance to the location. Not sure what happened when I was gone, but I heard the guy was able to walk again, and when he was asked what happened, he did not remember a thing. Lucky man ideed, I was surprised that the current did not take him down stream, but instead straight to the bottom. Well interesting day, his fish were left on the beach, and there probably still there up for grabs. A nicely snagged 10 lb cogo , and 25 pound spring. :( Nice day to be on the river.
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Thanks for the interesting report, but how exactly did this guy fall in and where was he fishing at the KWB?
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500 meters below KBW, either the rock bank collapsed or he triped/ fell
The same snaggers are there every day getting there 4 salmon
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Lucky for him his buddy was there if all of the other guys down there were just trying to "snag him with their hooks" instead of rescuing him. The whole report is scarry on so many levels....
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Lucky guy, sad story though he could have died.
How did he fall in exatcly?
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(http://www.mustangsurvival.com/products/images/thumbs/MD1165large8.jpg)
Inflatable, comfortable, stores a lot of gear. Valuable investment.
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Snag him with hooks. . . yah im sure thats gona do alot of good cuz it so easy bring in a full grown man with a rod. ???
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Nobody knew what to do, hes in the bottom of a fast tail out, they all had there waders on and would have easily been sucked down if they had attempted. Like I said his buddy and another guy were undressing and dove in after him, while the guys were trying to hook him and pull him out, may not sound smart, but everyone was in a panic and that was the best thing they came up with until the other guys undressed and dove in.
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BigFisher,
You said 500 metres below KW Bridge. Towards the the freeway (that's what I'm thinking) or towards Yarrow?
If it was below, towards the freeway, then another almost drowning happened above the KW today.
This seems to coincidental.
Thx
Dennis
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sorry I meant above, closer to yarrow
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Sounds like a bunch of snagging cowards to me!!! If it was your freind or yourself would you not risk missing a day of fishing to go home for a new set of clothes? pretty sad if you ask.
I think the competitive need to bring home more fish after a 30 day sockeye season is pretty sad. if you would just stop and help for a moment you might feel better than bringing home a load of snagged salmon :o
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First of all, good to know everyone is going home safely after a day of fishing.
Secondly, does this title seem appropriate? Someone almost drowned. Nice 180 degrees flip on the attitude after the sockeye season ended, Bigfisher. I fail to see how one has the nerve to label some fishermen as snaggers when they are simply employing the method that you have been using on the Fraser last month. What is the difference between the coho and chinook that he caught and the coho, sockeye and chinook that you caught this summer (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=11729.msg108864#msg108864) (by the way, retention of coho salmon has not been permitted on the Fraser River this year)? Would you like me start referring you as a Fraser River snagger, or the guy who lives by the Vedder and didn't show up to the cleanup? No I bet, and I won't. I do not intend to create an environment where people would sit behind the computer and generalize, label and shame others. This way of thinking is only creates further division in the fishing community and does not result positively. How on earth can anyone do one thing, turn around and condemn someone else doing the exact same thing? Such double standard I do not understand. If this is your approach to solving the ongoing problems on the Vedder River, I suggest that you take it to other forums. It's disgusting, please stop.
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50 pound braid wont do dick, your going to hall in a say 200 pound person with all there gear on , water logged to boot, rod will break, plus what i think of when people are trying to snag this guy, is what if a hook gets stuck on his face, or rips into his throat and bleeds to death or hooked anywhere, not a cool idea, if i was there i wouldn't have thought twice, i would have just taken my waders off and jumped in right away
I think I was at the run of where it happened because I over heard guys tallking about it, and if I'm not mistaken, one of our fwr members was standing in the exact spot :P
It's a shallow pool that goes straight down in to a deep one.. Not a pretty one to fall in. You gotta to be fast to save a guy in there... Didn't see it tho.. I got to the river at about 1 pm because I was working late last night.. or today morning :P
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For this topic I will get off my lurking chair and coment on. This is a freaking joke, to actually post and say you seen him sucked to the bootom and started casting hoping to snag the body is the most unbealivable thing I have ever herd(you should hang up your rod and go to the forrest gump school of ethics).not only would you not have gottin him out if you snagged him, you most likley would have finnished him off when you clocked him with your 4 oz. beatty.
I relize the vedder is a put in and take out fishery, but like Rod said, after a summer of gong shows on the Fraser . enough is enough. give your head a shake and get a freaking life that does not include a race to get your limit...............the whole Lower Mainland fishing seen makes me want to puke!!!, and this is just another fine example.
Back to the lurking chair once again!
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Good to hear that this fisherman only suffered a close call, as it could have been a lot worse. I do agree if a person is not a good swimmer the inflatable fishing vest is probably something to check out. But other things to keep in mind is that if you do take a spill in the water, try to keep your emotions under control. Do not panic. Take a deep breath , and release your quick release snaps on your waders, assuming the person was wearing waders. And shed your waders, and swim to shore. However, if things happen so fast that you cannot shed your waders all is not lost. Roll on to your back, kick your legs up and use your arms to back crawl to shore. By doing this you will prevent water from flooding your waders and dragging you under.
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Disgusting ??? >:( >:( I don't know what else to say.
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luckily hes alive :-\
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good thing his buddy had enough balls to jump in and save him
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Quote myself:
"Lucky for him his buddy was there if all of the other guys down there were just trying to "snag him with their hooks" instead of rescuing him. The whole report is scarry on so many levels...."
I thought I was being harsh when I posted this reply to Bigfishers report.......... but looks like I am one of the nicer ones
Come on guys he looks like a young fellow in his pictures, go easy on him we were all young once.
I agree the post was poorly worded but don't rip into the kid I am sure he learned from the expirience.
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Yeah, don't beat on the guy... The person is very lucky to have such a good buddy.. but I must say.. snagging a person out of the water is one of the dumbest things.. I don't know how you could even post something like that.
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This is a freaking joke, to actually post and say you seen him sucked to the bootom and started casting hoping to snag the body is the most unbealivable thing I have ever herd(you should hang up your rod and go to the forrest gump school of ethics)
Come on, Forrest Gump was not too swift but he was ethical to the extreme. Forrest would have dove in with his waders on. ;D
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Ok.
Here is what happened today with the near drowning based on the info I got, including one of the people in this accident.
I wasn't there when this actually happened but I did show up later to fish a spot close to where this accident happened. I ran into a friend that was also fishing the spot above where this happened which is about 50 yds away. He witnessed most of it.
There was no rock bank unless BF meant the edge of the pool. They were in the middle of the river where it is shallow then swept into a fast fairly narrow pool.
What happened was that these two fisherman went to move to a different spot. While doing this they lost their footing, couldn't get up and were swept into the pool. My friend saw the commotion from above and heard someone yell out if anyone knew CPR. My friend and 2 other fisherman fishing above suddenly knew something serious had happened (and all 3 know CPR) started running, shedding their clothes on the way to help. When they got their the fellow was already out of the pool and laying on his side. His lips and tongue were blue and his eyes were glazed over. He was probably very close to dying if he wasn't pulled out.
After we were done fishing I went back to my truck to change for the ride home. When I got into my vehicle I drove maybe 30 yards and recognized someone I knew.
I stopped to talk to him and he told me about the accident they had today. I told him a friend of mine told me about the accident and I was stunned that it was him and his uncle. He came from the Chilliwack hospital where his uncle was under observation and was being treated for shock and was about to get checked out to see if he had any water in his lungs.
The fisherman that I know that was involved in this accident was still very shaken up and emotional. I didn't ask him to many questions because he looked like he was in shock also. He didn't mention to me that he saved his uncle's life. I found this out from other people.
I know this fellow through the restaurant he manages the we have been eating at for 14 yrs. He is an avid fisherman. They were float fishing just like all the other gear guys in that pool.
BF, I'm assuming you used the term snaggers because everyone in that pool is fishing fast water with floats. They WERE NOT INTENTIONALLY SNAGGING. Just fishing like everyone else in that pool.
As far as I'm concerned, shame on people trying to snag the guy with their gear (even though I understand the thought process in a critical situation) instead of taking off the waders and boots and jumping in to help.
Dennyman, you won't make it shedding your waders in this situation. You still have to get your boots off and that is what's going to drown you. Not enough time in most cases.
This guy is alive because his nephew (based on was I was told) took his off his clothes and dove in after him.
He did tell me that he was surprised that he couldn't get up in water that was only 1 1/2- 2ft deep.
Two years ago I pulled a older gentleman out of the river that had slipped in 2 ft of water and was within seconds of drowning. Today's events brought it all back to me and it's bothersome. None of us should EVER underestimate shallow running water.
Anyways, I'm going out of town for business for the next few days but when I'm back, I will be checking in with this fellow at the restaurant to see how they are both doing after this very scary and emotional ordeal.
I hope everyone keeps this thread in check and that we should all realize no matter how we fish that a life was very close to being lost today and that this event has changed a few people lives forever. DON'T FORGET THAT. Everything else is secondary in these situations.
Just like everyone else on the river these two fisherman were out for a good day of doing something we all love to do and had an accident.
Regards
Dennis
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Rod, very well put. Sam, only a F****** idiot would say something so callous. Thanks yet again for your neverending wisdom.
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Sam Salmon, couldn't you have let 4X4 have the last word on this matter. Your cheap shot was totally uncalled for.
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sam, get a frigging life!! that was certainly uncalled for. Your posts are totally useless so shut the hell up. Bigfisher, I suggest you use a better choice of words for your subject title. Whether or not he was flossing is totally irrelevant to your story. Someone with a family almost died there today. How would you feel if it was your father or brother?
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Why do people take tiny points of light on a computer screen so seriously?
Does anyone in their right mind think that anything posted anywhere here would have affected/will affect anything that happens in an overcrowded ditch like the Vedder?
This is a freaking joke, to actually post and say you seen him sucked to the bootom and started casting hoping to snag the body is the most unbealivable thing I have ever heard.....not only would you not have gottin him out if you snagged him, you most likley would have finnished him off when you clocked him with your 4 oz. beatty.
I relize the vedder is a put in and take out fishery, but..... enough is enough. give your head a shake and get a freaking life that does not include a race to get your limit...............the whole Lower Mainland fishing seen makes me want to puke!!!, and this is just another fine example.
My thoughts exactly!
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Why do some people feel the need to take useless, no-class shots at others using tiny points of light on a computer screen? ::) Pretty sad.
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So Sam, imagine youre his brother, or son and youre also a fisherman who reads this forum and you come across that post...really, how would you feel? Thinking about other people on occasion isnt a bad thing.
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Why do people take tiny points of light on a computer screen so seriously?
If you don't think its wrong to joke about something as serious as that then you are more of an insensitive jerk than I thought.
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Thanks for the clarification 4x4. The uncle is indeed lucky his nephew had the wits about him to go in after him. The nephew is a real hero.
Wading is serious business and people need to realize the wading belt is there for a reason. I cringe every time I see people wade and they don’t have their wading belt tightened. I slipped once in two feet of water and the current swept me 100 yards before I could get my feet planted. What saved me was that I had tightened my wading belt so only the chest portion filled with water and just a tiny amount of water had gotten into the legs. Even in two feet of water panic can set in, especially if the water is cold. Now I never wade any deeper than my knees. A fish is not worth my life.
Bigfisher wrote in haste and used poor words. Perhaps he could take a cue from the other young members and try to write with more clarity. There is no need to dump on him any more.
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I suggest you people that are replying to Sam Salmon just stop and think. The guy obviously uses what you say as fuel for his fire and whatever you reply with he is only going to come back with an even more insensitive remark. Just don't give him anything to use and he will eventually get bored.
Thanks for clarifying Dennis.
Snagging is not an issue in this case. I think a persons life at risk is something where you wouldnt even talk about even if he was snagging. Who cares if he was? Is that justice for trying to snag a fish? Not likely. People that bring these things into consideration on a post like this are heartless in my mind.
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I was there on the south bank and saw the whole thing start to finish. The only part I missed was that actual falling in. I was with my kids and we were picking up garbage for the cleanup. It was pretty well as 4X4 stated.
When they pulled him out, I thought the guy was finished, but after some rescusistory efforts he started moving his legs and everybody sighed a big sigh. The guy who stripped down and dived in was a hero. Kids are a bit freaked out, though...
Everybody at that runout was fishing with floats, pencil lead, leaders. From what I could tell it was the same technique used in all 30km of the river, by virtually everyone who fishes there.
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Im sorry for the disturbing thread name, just wanted to catch some attention to it. Also to Rodney, I make a good effort to keep this river clean on every trip. Yes I floss on the Fraser in the summer, although i am not proud of it, and always keep it to the fraser. As of that Coho, I thought hatchery fish could be retained at any time during the year? No, I was not around when the guy fell in, I heard the commotion and walked over 100 meters, to witness a man in the water. As I walked to the scene people were putting there rods in the water hoping for him to grab onto, while otheres did try and hook him, which sounds stupid, I know. But everyone was in shock, and panic set in fast. Yes a few went in after him, and he didnt look good after. But Im fine with people flossing for fish, just do not agree with it on smaller systems, and at this hole were a bunch of flossers ripping there lines at every cast, and so this Is why I came to the name snagger for the titlle, but like it said the title was a little overboard and maybe he wasnt a snagger, Im just glad he got out alive.
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Bigfisher, I have no doubt that you also do your part to keep the Vedder clean, as it is right beside your house. I was just using it as an example to illustrate how easy it is to generalize and judge people without getting to know them first. I'm not fine with the method being used to catch sockeyes and chinooks on the Fraser, personally I gain no satisfaction if I catch my fish that way. That does not mean I am going to go around and call every single person who does it a snagger. Why not? To start with, it's rude. Nobody likes to be rude, well, most don't... As I said in the previous post, I would never do that to anyone, even though such behaviour is somewhat embedded in our human nature. Exclusion is the worst form of approach to a problem. I believe you have no ill intent, but people have to understand that by singling others out is not a solution. The ongoing problem that we face has no easy solution, but it requires a positive approach. Every single person who gets up at 4am and fishes the Vedder has one common objective, that is to have fun. Some are new into the game, some do not know better, some are unaware of the appropriate methods to use, some are experienced, some have done this for a few years, etc. Even though the methods employed vary, the recreational fishing community should not be divided. Instead we need to develop understandings and assist each other. After all, we are all using the same resource. My previous post was written with some anger because we were starting to see a kind of mob being developed on the forum. This isn't my objective when I set up the forum. This forum isn't the fishing authority, I've said it before, it isn't my job. My hope is that people come on here, are able to find the information that they are looking for, make a few friends, fish successfully, but at the same time appreciate it by helping others who are in the same boat that you were once in.
4X4, scary story and reminders.
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Esox, is that you?
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I think we're getting away from the point here, who cares what type of gear the man was using, the fact is that a fellow angler almost lost his life.
This should be an eye-opener to be more careful and take a look at how valauble a single fish can be over ones own life.
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Well said rodney,i agree with you 100%.if everybody think like you,this world will be very peaceful
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Well said rodney,i agree with you 100%.if everybody think like you,this world will be very peaceful
And rather boring too. ;) We wouldn't have anything to talk about on the forum. ;D
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Hi guys, I actually witnessed the whole event. These two blokes tried to cross the river in front of the deep pool. One guy slips and his buddy, in trying to help him, also falls. They get dragged into the deep pool. Then you have 16 guys screaming at them to swim down river. The secod guys makes it. The first panics and his waders fill up. His lungs fill up and he turns over, I guess 30 seconds from going under. It happend so fast. The guy who had the most brains throws his line and snags this blokes jacket. It was actually amazing. Pulls him to shore. Yadda, Yadda Yadaa, the guy has a second lease on life.
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I just read this and I hope that if any of you fall in that someone helps you.
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What is the difference between the coho and chinook that he caught and the coho, sockeye and chinook that you caught this summer (http://www.fishingwithrod.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=11729.msg108864#msg108864) (by the way, retention of coho salmon has not been permitted on the Fraser River this year)?
There isnt a difference, that's why I feel that snagging/flossing runs rampant and out of control on both the Fraser and the Vedder.
Everybody at that runout was fishing with floats, pencil lead, leaders. From what I could tell it was the same technique used in all 30km of the river, by virtually everyone who fishes there.
Kevgor, you're right, the gear's the same, yes, but the techniques (which was being commented on) varies with two extremes. At one end you have 'short floating' where the weight and hook is off the bottom and the fish needs to bite the hook to sink the float. The float is perpendicular to the water and moves the same speed as the current. The other end is, I guess you would call it 'long floating' (aka dredging, long lining etc) where the distance from weight to float is often at least twice the depth of the water being fished, and the leader is most often 3 feet or more in length. The float struggles gamely along on its side when not frequently doused underwater from hooking the bottom. The goal in this method seems to oriented towards flossing a fish which really is the only way to get a fish IMO. While using this method as more often than not, anglers Ive seen fishing so deep dont give the fish much a chance to grab the bait. Between the gear being below the bite-zone, getting snagged on the bottom and the angler constantly setting the hook making that terrible fish-scaring RIPPPING sound as the line tears through the water I think this method seriously challenges the laws of probability of a fish biting although Im sure it happens from time to time. Most anglers fishing the Keith Wilson Bridge utilize this method. Of course, between short floating and long floating there are guys who fish somewhere between the two, but it seems that more and more are fishing the 'long floating' way. More of a FYI even though probably shouldnt have commented on it in this thead. My apologies. :-[
All that aside (as I said, probably had no place in a topic where someone almost died), I'm pleased to hear that the poor guy survived. Methods, catching and filling the freezer is a very very distant second to being safe and coming home alive. Be careful everyone! The ones most at risk, IMO are guys like myself who are confident (not a bad thing used right) with the river. Familiarity sometimes breeds contempt. Keep it in mind, and buy what Fisherforever has and follow the good advice shared from above.
If in doubt, dont do it! The river is always out to get you if you make even the smallest mistake or slip.
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Wow this has been quite a thread!It started as a snagger drowns, then becomes snagger almost drowns. Then we get all the untrue twists and turns of the unfortunate event. Happily the man is ok. After all is said and done it becomes another BBing & snagging debate. This forum seems to be a gentler more forgiving forum than the other one I frequent, and I hope it stays that way!
Lets not fall prey to " The greater sheep theory" and condem other fellow fishermen for doing something that they think is right and proper. I started BBing for springs on the Fraser, then changed my ways when an older more expierieced fisherman invited me to join him bar fishing. Instead of calling me names, he was non judgemental and showed me a better way! My point is this: If you have something of interest to post, please do! We all want to become better at our chosen sport and make it better for other fishermen as well. We wont acomplish that by labelling and name calling.Anger and discrimination are the winds that blow out the candle of reason.
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I started BBing for springs on the Fraser, then changed my ways when an older more expierieced fisherman invited me to join him bar fishing. Instead of calling me names, he was non judgemental and showed me a better way! My point is this: If you have something of interest to post, please do! We all want to become better at our chosen sport and make it better for other fishermen as well. We wont acomplish that by labelling and name calling.Anger and discrimination are the winds that blow out the candle of reason.
Well said Bonanza. Calling people morons, beeks, flossers etc. seldom convinced people to change their methods.
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Well said Bonanza. Calling people morons, beeks, flossers etc. seldom convinced people to change their methods.
We call them those names because deep deep down we really really really care about them.
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Time to clear this up. Two men where crossing the river to close to the top of a pool that is ABOVE the Keith Wilson bridge. One man slips the other tries to grab him and falls also. The younger man gets washed past the eddy and gets out. The other guy who originally slipped gets hung up in the back eddy and despite people yelling at him to swim with the current he fights the current until he is exhausted and takes water in his lungs. He passes out and goes under to the bottom of the eddy and pops out behind it floating face down unconscious. A young man casts his hook at him getting him in the shoulder of his vest and pulled him close enough to grab him and pull him out. His face and his lips are purple and his eyes are in a fixed stare. Then this young man beats him on the back hard and repeatedly until a gush of water comes out of his mouth and he starts breathing again and his color comes back. How do I know this? This young man that reeled him in was my son and everything he did is exactly right. It is clear to me that many of you have no rescue or survival training. The first rule of rescue is “insure no danger or peril to oneself” This man was thrashing and panicking in a back eddy. Statistically the highest group of drown victims is panicking non-swimmers, the second largest group of drown victims are people trying to rescue panicking non-swimmers. The order of Canada was just given in absence to two dead would be drowning rescuers. The second rule of rescue is “you cant kill a dead person” “If no intervention is made will the victim die?” If the answer is yes then any attempts of rescue are encouraged. Even casting hooks! This man was unconscious and floating face down under the surface. My son casting and reeling him in took seconds and was a quick first response that worked. Knowing my son, if it did not work the second response would be to go in after him. Until you are faced with a life and death rescue as I have and as my son has you don’t know how you will react or what you will do. (I swam to the bottom of a cold fall river in the middle of a very dark night to pull a woman out of the back seat of a sinking car) And as for ethical fishing methods please start another forum and leave it out of this discussion.
Thanks for letting me share this.
Ralph Martens
Trophy Reels
www.TrophyReels.com
www.FishnReels.com
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Give your son a big pat on the back from me Trophy.. well done !!
you must be very proud that he did the right thing
I hope the gentleman he saved realizes how lucky he is
TR
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Thanks for the clarification Ralph. Your son should be commended for his quick thinking.
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congrats to your son for his quick reaction.
as for the snag BLAH BLAH bounce BLAGH BLAGH, sick of hearing it.
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Your son was a quick thinker, he saved his life. If it wasnt for his quick action, that man would have been died in the next 10 -30 seconds. Id be proud of him.
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"Then this young man beats him on the back hard and repeatedly until a gush of water comes out of his mouth and he starts breathing again and his color comes back."
http://www.escape-co.com/Drowning_First_Aid.htm
Whacking him on the back was better than CPR sometimes.
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I have 2 small children at home I would never risk my life by jumping into a pool of dangerous water to save someone I don't know.
If it were me in the pool I would hope someone would jump in after me...
Congrats to the young hero whom did not jump in... but kept his head and managed to hook this fellow and saved him.
CJ.
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This thread illustrates the fact we shouldn't jump into conclusion too fast or stereotype people by this or that. The young hero who saved the victim with his hook was earlier frowned upon as being stupid. What a joke! BF said every one there was caught in a panic stage. Many might have flashed the thought like what Casino Jim said, about risking their own life while with a young family & kids. It is not an easy decision for mere mortals to make that selfless jump within seconds, and it is always easy to stay back & criticize when you are not at the panic scene. Have some trust & respect on people's goodness in general.
Thanks goodness that the guy survives so there is not another widow & grieving family. What has fishing method to do with this? Rodney is right on with the mob mentality in this forum sometimes. There seems to be 'blood hounds' ready to pound on the next spill of 'blood'. Whatever happens to fisherman brotherhood? Let's be gentler to each other. Look around you in your social circle. Actually you will find that you and your strong fishing blood is quite rare (ain't you glad you find each other in forum like this?) among the population. So why not be nicer to your own kind, even though they may be in different stage of fishing development. As long as they are fishing legally, so be it. Our duty is to report violation, not to trash & stereotype in a forum.
Our real enemies are forces that can threatenr our fish stocks in much bigger pictures (such as environmental & fish habitat degradation by various factors), overfishing by commercial or FN sectors (they take much bigger share and can wipe out a stock if not well managed), and also organizations like PETA whose agenda is stopping you and me from fishing. Watch out for politicians who have a PETA mentality and start cutting back funding like what we are witnessing now. Didn't they just cut 600k coho stocking recently from the Vedder? What else is next? Just my humble 2cents.
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Well Said FunFish