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[Zaphod]

Hi all.

So, I was fishing Sasamat this evening.  Started at about 7, fished until 10 after 9.  No activity at all until about the last half hour.  I was float fishing with the smallest Gibbs foam pencil float I can find, with a #4 single barbless steelhead hook suspended under it at about 5 feet, with 6 lb test, with some Powerbait on the hook.

In any case, once the fish started to be active (I could see activity near the surface), three times I reeled my float in and all three times my Powerbait was gone.  I don't usually have a problem with it falling off, so this seems like nibbles to me.

I'm thinking I need a lighter setup to detect the bites.  The float, as it stands, requires 1/2 oz. of worm weight to balance it.  Is this too heavy?  Would I do better with an equivalent amount of split shot?

Also, if anyone can tell me what kind of spinners work best there (if they work at all), it'd be much appreciated.

I'm quite new to fishing in general, so it's exciting that it seems there are fish there; now I need to figure out how to catch 'em.  

Thanks.
- Zaph.

[Zaphod]

Oh, and I forgot to ask a question I was meaning to ask:

If I do want to lighten up my Gibbs foam pencil float, what's the best way to do it?

I would just cut it off, but it has those little tubes that run in the top and out the side, and then back in the side and out the bottom.  If I cut off the bottom to shorten and lighten the float, I lose the bottom tube.  How do I deal with this?

Would it work to remove a piece of the middle, and crazy glue both ends of the float back together?  I figure there has to be a simpler solution than that, and maybe someone here can give me some advice.

I really appreciate it.
- Zaph

[Hiker]

Zaphod abot floats, just go to WallMart, or even better to Army and NAvy and ask them what to use. In army and navy you usually can get a good help and they are not too expensive, plus much better of explanation than here on the web.
Personally, if my float doesn't just sinks when fish bites, fish was too small to keep any way (as long as your float isn't too big, and following your description I wouldn't think so), so I wouldn't bother. Just wait for a bigger fish, and do not use smaller hooks than that to avoid deep hooking of even small fish you will be releasing any way.
In this heat power bait isn't the best choice I think so I would rather use worms or any other bait which stays on hook easier.
Hope this helps.

[casinoJim]

Rod the owner of this site has floats from time to time... might wanna ask him

Newguy has sensitive floats at the store Imperial and Kingsway ... called Royal Sportsman
CJ

[Fish Assassin]

If you choose to shorten your float by cutting it, take a long needle heat it and insert from the bottom of the float at an angle where you want your tubing to go. Reinsert the tubing and you're set.

[Rodney]

1/2 oz is quite a bit, here are some suggestions that you may want to try out to get those bites detected.

1) Reduce the line weight to 4lb test, you should see some differences. For carp, various coarse fish and these trout in put and take lakes, 4lb is enough.

2) Float, go smaller. My favorite is Drennan's Crystal Avon. I have some if you are interested. Berry's and Nikka both have some as well. The 4.5g or 6g size Crystal Avon will allow you to cast fairly far but still retain that sensitivity required. They only take a few small split shots to balance. Add enough weight so the bottom of the red tip is lying on the water surface.

3) Watch the float all the time. Trout are aggressive, they don't mess around with the bait. One bite, the bait is gone. Coarse fish, on the other hand, will nibble away like a gold fish until it wants to fully commit to the bait. Make sure the line between the float and your rod is not sinking (if it is, you may want to add water repellant substance onto the line so that it floats). Having a dry line will increase your hookup speed, therefore less chance to loss the fish.

4) secure the bait better. Try some natural bait. Shrimp is a good one to start with. Secure the bait with spider thread (the thread used to tie roe sacs).

5) If you are strictly catching and keeping the fish to eat, downsize the hook. #4 is actually what I normally use so the fish wouldn't swallow the bait. #6 will probably allow the fish to hook itself.

6) The fish may simply be too small. This time of the year, you'll find lots of small trout (4 to 6 inchers) at Sasamat Lake. If that's the case, try this again next spring (April, May) when the lake is stocked.

Good luck.

[Zaphod]

Hi, wow, thanks for all of the replies!  I wrote those messages before bed yesterday, and when I woke up I decided to check.  My girlfriend said to me: "They won't have replied YET.. they DO sleep, you know!"  I guess she was wrong.  

Anyways, I think I'm going to lighten up my setup and see what happens.  Rod, do you know the cost of those floats you were talking about?  And this line for tying roe sacs.. afraid I've never used it.  When you buy it, is it generally fairly clearly labeled according to its purpose?

Thanks for bearing with a novice.
- Zaph.

[Zaphod]

Well, I went fishing this evening again, and took a little of your advice here, and a little there, and put together this setup:

Small Thill slip float, balanced with only one split shot
4 lb. line
#6 long shank hook
A cooked shrimp on the hook

Results: Float disappeared completely under the water twice, but I wasn't able to bring up any fish.  I figure either I tried to set the hook too soon and took the bait away, or I set it too late, or the fish were simply too small.

Questions:

- I would love to have a fast way to adjust the depth of this float.  Currently, I'm setting the depth by tying a knot in the line and putting a bead in front of the knot to stop the float.  However, I can't see an easy way to adjust the depth since once the knot is tied, it's difficult/impossible to untie it.  Suggestions?

- I had a whole shrimp on the long shank #6 hook.  I'm wondering if maybe this is too much bait for a foot-long fish.  Should I put just small pieces of shrimp on instead, and if so, how important is it that the entire shank of the hook be covered with bait so it can't be seen by the fish?

Thanks.
- Zaph.

[The_Roe_Man]

I have fished sasamat lots of times over the years as i live one minute away.  I find the best bait to be shrimp. 4lbs teast and size 6 hooks are perfect. I use barbless stealhead hooks.  Me and my brother just use the floats we use for salmon although these arn't that great.  We use about and inch and a bit of pencil lead.
 
Oh ya, about the bait.  The best way to do it is to let them dry overnight or something so the shrimp toughens up which allows it to stay on the hook a lot longer. Try to hide the hook in the shrimp.

[Zaphod]

Max,

No, I wasn't using a stopper knot (I am a novice fisherman to say the least).  I looked for instructions for a stopper knot on the Internet, and found several different knots called the stopper knot.  The one that I think is probably what you're referring to is this one:

http://www.geocities.com/fisherkingnigel/thumbfloatstopper.html

Is this the kind of knot you mean?

And no, I didn't tie it on with anything.  I found that it held on extremely well through several casts.  Should I be tying it on with Spiderwire to ensure that it survives casting, or to ensure that the fish can't steal it?

Thanks for the tips.  This stopper knot is going to make life much easier.

[Zaphod]

Roe Man,

Thanks for the tip about drying out the shrimp.  I'll try that.

As far as hiding the hook in the shrimp -- I put the shrimp on such that the entire hook and shank were covered, but a litle bit of the hook point was sticking out the side of the shrimp.  Does that sound about right?

[Fish Assassin]

Here's a link to the stopper knot that Max was referring to..http://www.steelheader.net/knots/knots.htm

As to toughening your shrimp, use pickling salt overnight.

[The_Roe_Man]

Sounds about right.  I usually hide the hook point completely and some of the shank is showing but the more you can hide the better.  

[Zaphod]

Assassin,

Picking salt eh?  Is there usually a problem with the shrimp not being tough enough to stay on the hook during casting?  I didn't have any problem with that -- my shrimp stayed on through 10 - 12 casts.  It is cooked shrimp.. maybe that makes a difference?

Or maybe I'm overlooking some other reason why I should toughen the shrimp (maybe to make it harder for fish to nibble and steal without getting hooked?)

[Zaphod]

Roe Man,

OK, thanks again for the tips.  Do you know if they will likely stock Sasamat again before spring?  I'm guessing probably not.

Is it a waste of time to try to fish that lake this time of year, or do you think there's potential for fish that aren't tiny?