Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: leapin' tyee on February 02, 2012, 10:10:45 AM
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Just wondering why are there SO MANY Sage brown blanks or rods up for sale lately ? Are they any good ? I thought it was discontinued long time ago...
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They are excellent blanks, probably among the best out there - well worth your money - as long as you find a master builder.
Even the best blank will not tolerate a crappy build.
THE guy to talk to on this forum about rod building is Dave.
I wish I could afford more Sages... :'(
But I am happy with my three. :)
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I think also that Sage is doing a limited run of gear blanks that will be available soon. Maybe those that hold old stock want to get rid of them before the new ones come out?
I'm not sure if the new ones are brown or green blanks.
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Just wondering why are there SO MANY Sage brown blanks or rods up for sale lately ? Are they any good ? I thought it was discontinued long time ago...
They are discontinued and the blanks you see for sale are ones that people have hoarded away. Soon you will see sage drift rods back in some stores as they have decided to build blanks for one person here in the Lowermainland. This person is one of the best rod builders out there. He will build the blanks up for the levelwind or center pin and he will also cover the warranty so if you happen to break one of his rods the turn around time will be incredible. I have herd that the turn around time will be close to a week instead of months. The only down side is that they will only produce green blanks but then acording to him there is no difference between the two.
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Bang on Jeff. Brian Babcock scooped a few people by securing this contract from Sage and he is about as good a rodbuilder as you will find anywhere. It's my understanding also the blanks will be green so that could increase the price of the few original brown blanks available.
Dave, loves his brown 2106LB :)
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Thanks for all the information, so should i look for brown or green color blanks. They are almost the same price ?
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Go for the Brown ones better options and I think they feel better :-*, the greens one that they are bringing back are the 3106L and 3113M in the CP to my understanding..... Main thing when your getting your rod built is the guide spacing, you can alter the feel of a rod significantly according to how its built. Talk to your rod builder and get what u want....
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Main thing when your getting your rod built is the guide spacing, you can alter the feel of a rod significantly according to how its built. Talk to your rod builder and get what u want....
Can you explain a little bit more, regarding guide spacing, how many difference guides are in the market now. Which one do you prefer? Thanks
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I am also curious - how much is it typically to have a rod built? I never usually buy blanks but was thinking about it. Strange that there are so many people selling them all of a sudden...maybe a better deal is on it's way?
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think of it this way. you buy the blank for $300 and thats JUST the blank. If you bought a factory built rod it runs around $600 and thats production built. If you buy your blank and high end cork/guides/reel seat im sure once its all built up you will be paying between 600-700 for the finished product however having a rod built you can have it customized to whatever you want.
If you builf it yourself the cost will be alot less of course.
I was going to get a guy to redo the cork and labelling on my spey rod and he said $250-300 just to do that
HOOK - wishes he had the money for 2 more Sage brown blanks 3106Lb's to get tied for my sons when they start fishing ;D
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think of it this way. you buy the blank for $300 and thats JUST the blank. If you bought a factory built rod it runs around $600 and thats production built. If you buy your blank and high end cork/guides/reel seat im sure once its all built up you will be paying between 600-700 for the finished product however having a rod built you can have it customized to whatever you want.
If you builf it yourself the cost will be alot less of course.
I was going to get a guy to redo the cork and labelling on my spey rod and he said $250-300 just to do that
Yikes :-[ I think I need to feed my piggy bank a little more first
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Can you explain a little bit more, regarding guide spacing, how many difference guides are in the market now. Which one do you prefer? Thanks
Most companies have guide spacing on there websites for each rod they produce, and with the R & D going into there productions I would say they already start with great options. Now that being said, a good builder can adjust the guide spacing to allow lets say a Meduim blank (MB) rod feel a bit more like a light blank (LB) rod, etc. In regards to pin rods I dont think I would ever buy a factory rod, custom is the only way to go. You get exactly what you want, a shorter or longer butt section, cork shaped to your hand specs, top of the line titanium gudes ;D and a Reel seat that holds your reel snug and tight....Like was mentioned rod builds are expensive but worth the money IMO
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I was wondering, if you have a custum sage rod built and you break it, sage will only cover the blank, but if you have factory rod they will replace the sectoin of rod broken built already. Is this true?So if its custom built you will have to pay to have it built again.
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I was wondering, if you have a custum sage rod built and you break it, sage will only cover the blank, but if you have factory rod they will replace the sectoin of rod broken built already. Is this true?So if its custom built you will have to pay to have it built again.
Yes, plus shipping and handling charge
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"The only down side is that they will only produce green blanks but then acording to him there is no difference between the two" Oh but there is a difference between the two.One is brown and the other one is green.Those of you that think there is something deeper than that have vivid imaginations.Nuff said.
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I wonder the green blank would be any lighter
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I have both brown and green Sage gear rods ( 2 brown and 7 green) All the green except one are factory rods. ONe green is made by Brian at West Coast tackle . I can ahrdly tell any difference between them. The green are excellent and so are the brown. I guess the only difference is the colour.
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Actually the newer green blanks are a different graphite modulus.
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Actually the newer green blanks are a different graphite modulus.
Hi folks. I thought I had better jump in here and clarify a few things. First off, so everyone understands where I'm coming from, I have run the Sage Gear program for the past two years. Any and all changes are my responsibility. I initiated the factory rods and was responsible for the colour change. I develop all of the new models and decide which old ones stay.
For the record, the new green blanks are exactly the same as the old brown blanks. Colour change only. Now before everyone starts giving me anecdotal stories about differences in action, let me explain a few things. Some of those blanks have been around for almost 20 years. In that time, there has been changes in basic raw materials - graphite, resin, etc. Sage has always attempted to maintain the exact actions as the originals, but I'm not going to say that it's impossible, over the span of 20 years, to not find some subtle differences within specific models. I will tell you, however, that the new green blanks are manufactured exactly the same as any brown blanks manufactured in the 3 or 4 years prior to my involvement. Rest assured that each and every Sage Gear rod is still being manufactured at our plant on Bainbridge Island WA. We have developed some new models - currently CT296F, CT396F, SP196. These can all be viewed at www.sagegearrods.com I am currently working on some new designs for down the road which are very exciting - Stay tuned!
I hope this clears up any confusion.
Brian Babcock
So , who has the right statement here. Confused ??? ??? ???
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Hi folks. I thought I had better jump in here and clarify a few things. First off, so everyone understands where I'm coming from, I have run the Sage Gear program for the past two years. Any and all changes are my responsibility. I initiated the factory rods and was responsible for the colour change. I develop all of the new models and decide which old ones stay.
For the record, the new green blanks are exactly the same as the old brown blanks. Colour change only. Now before everyone starts giving me anecdotal stories about differences in action, let me explain a few things. Some of those blanks have been around for almost 20 years. In that time, there has been changes in basic raw materials - graphite, resin, etc. Sage has always attempted to maintain the exact actions as the originals, but I'm not going to say that it's impossible, over the span of 20 years, to not find some subtle differences within specific models. I will tell you, however, that the new green blanks are manufactured exactly the same as any brown blanks manufactured in the 3 or 4 years prior to my involvement. Rest assured that each and every Sage Gear rod is still being manufactured at our plant on Bainbridge Island WA. We have developed some new models - currently CT296F, CT396F, SP196. These can all be viewed at www.sagegearrods.com I am currently working on some new designs for down the road which are very exciting - Stay tuned!
I hope this clears up any confusion.
Brian Babcock
So , who has the right statement here. Confused ??? ??? ???
How old is this message from Brian Babcock?? I tried the link and it does not work.
Tom - I believe that Corey is right; the newer green blanks have a higher graphite modulus than the old brown blanks. Read the message from Brian Babcock again, and you will see that even he admits to a slight change in product over the years.
Having said that. I feel everyone thinks that their old brown blanks feel different than the factory rods for these reasons:
1) Brown Blank rods are custom made. Each rod will have different guides / guide spacing / handles / reel seat placement. Not to mention how it is built on the spine. Therefore, each brown blank rod will feel different to the other.
2) Green Blank factory made rods are made the same to certain specifications based on the model. If you get 2 factory CT2106, they will feel exactly the same. If you get a Brown Blank custom made 2106 and fish it next to a Green Blank 2106, unless they are made to the same exact specifications, the rods will (could) feel slightly different.
I took someones advise recently and spoke to Sage directly. Newer Brown Blanks and the newest Green Blanks are exactly the same. That's the word from Sage. Now, If you have a much older Brown Blank and compare it to one of the newer Brown Blanks, they may feel slightly different based on their age and, as Brian puts it "due to changes in basic raw materials - graphite, resin etc."
I too, went on the "Brown is better than Green" bandwagon when they first came out (the green ones). After some investigation, I now know that this is just a colour change only. However, ..... I do like the look of the Brown Blank, though. ;)
Cheers, John
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How old is this message from Brian Babcock?? I tried the link and it does not work.
Search under Sage by Brain Bobcock
I took someones advise recently and spoke to Sage directly. Newer Brown Blanks and the newest Green Blanks are exactly the same. That's the word from Sage. Now, If you have a much older Brown Blank and compare it to one of the newer Brown Blanks, they may feel slightly different based on their age and, as Brian puts it "due to changes in basic raw materials - graphite, resin etc."
Thanks for clears up any confusion.
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Considering technical advances with graphite over the last 20 years, I'm surprised that the green blanks don't offer better performance. I sure notice the difference with the top end Sage fly rods from the mid 90's over today's fly rods! I've tried the RPL+ and SP series, and IMHO they do not measure up to the XP or Z-Axis. Heck - I find even my "lowly" FLi to be lighter than my RPL+. I see that fly rods are getting lighter and lighter. So - what's up with the drift rods? Btw - I currently have a factory Sage CT 2106 and it's an awesome coho/steelhead rod. I don't have much experience with the brown blanks (I've casted my friend's old 3113 with the centrepin), but I do hear good reports from those that use them.
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Hi folks. I thought I had better jump in here and clarify a few things. First off, so everyone understands where I'm coming from, I have run the Sage Gear program for the past two years. Any and all changes are my responsibility. I initiated the factory rods and was responsible for the colour change. I develop all of the new models and decide which old ones stay.
For the record, the new green blanks are exactly the same as the old brown blanks. Colour change only. Now before everyone starts giving me anecdotal stories about differences in action, let me explain a few things. Some of those blanks have been around for almost 20 years. In that time, there has been changes in basic raw materials - graphite, resin, etc. Sage has always attempted to maintain the exact actions as the originals, but I'm not going to say that it's impossible, over the span of 20 years, to not find some subtle differences within specific models. I will tell you, however, that the new green blanks are manufactured exactly the same as any brown blanks manufactured in the 3 or 4 years prior to my involvement. Rest assured that each and every Sage Gear rod is still being manufactured at our plant on Bainbridge Island WA. We have developed some new models - currently CT296F, CT396F, SP196. These can all be viewed at www.sagegearrods.com I am currently working on some new designs for down the road which are very exciting - Stay tuned!
I hope this clears up any confusion.
Brian Babcock
So , who has the right statement here. Confused ??? ??? ???
As I have stated in NUMEROUS threads...call Sage and hear the answer from them personally.
Yes, they are manufactured the same, but if you talk to them, they will tell you that the graphite used is different.
Some like blondes, some like brunettes....in the dark, they are the same too.
People need to do their own research.
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You may have stated this "numerous times" but you're still wrong. Not sure who you spoke to at Sage but I was actually there when the decision to change the colour was made. Can I say this any clearer - THE NEW GREEN BLANKS ARE NOT A HIGHER MODULUS GRAPHITE!! They are identical to the most recent brown blanks in everything except colour and logo. Trust me. It was my baby. Here's how a few cross-over:
Brown GSH3113M = Green CP3113M = Green CT3113M
Brown GSH4110 = Green CT4110 = Blue SA4110
Brown GSH2106 = Green CT2106
Brown GSH3106L = Green CP3106L
Brown Glll 290 = Green CT290F ***Note this is Glll material both brown and green***
So any of the brown "GSH" models used Gl graphite and they now come out as green (or blue for the SA's) with the CT, CP, or SA designation followed by the model number. Any of the brown Glll models (286,290,296,386,390,396) used Glll (higher modulus) graphite and they now come out as green CT(model number)(letter F).
Where someone answering the phones at Sage may be mistaken is assuming that we went to all Glll with the colour change. We did not! Any of the "new" green blanks that don't have the letter "F" attached are still using Gl graphite. To further emphasize this point, I am currently waiting for Sage to run a large order of Gear blanks and it is being delayed because Sage doesn't have enough Gl in stock. These are the only rods they use that graphite on.
I really can't say any more on this. I'm sure there will be some that refuse to believe what I'm saying even though I was Sage's Product Manager for Gear when all this occurred. It's obviously a conspiracy on my part to fool everyone into thinking that Sage is still using the same technology as they did 20 years ago! Would that make any sense???
Brian Babcock
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I appreciate the clarification. Makes sense.
Different than the answer they are saying when I talk to them, but I believe you.
Thank you for the clarification
a side question...
the original GSH3106LB had a 6-15 rating but the new green is 8-17. What is the reason behind that?
ps... Brian, can you shoot me your email addy, I want to offer you some info
corey-thrasher@hotmail.com
Thanks
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No worries. The thing people need to realize is that Sage is a fly rod company first and foremost. To get the answer you're looking for, you would have to connect with one of about five people in the entire plant that would actually know. When it comes to fly rods, pretty much everyone is on the same page. That's part of the reason that they're moving away from factory Gear rods - it was just never embraced. Their focus is fly and they're the best there is at it in my opinion.
Ahhh, line ratings. This was a tricky bit of business. You are correct in noting that there was some changes made. What I decided to do with line ratings was start from scratch and give the rods what I personally felt was the correct rating. This involved casting every single model with several different lure and line weights to see what was optimum. As my department was a small cog in the big Sage machine, it was my decision and mine alone on these ratings. I did compare them to the historical ratings (which were set by the legendary Don Green) and I would be lying to you if I said I wasn't a bit influenced by these. So, being a one man band in this department, I made decisions based on my testing and Don's historical ratings and came up with what you see listed today. You'll also note that some of the identical blanks - eg: CT4110 / SA4110 - have very different ratings. This is because of their obvious completely different usage (casting vs. power mooching). Basically what I'm saying is that line ratings are very subjective and should not be taken as gospel.
Brian
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Good Morning fellas,
I have personally had the pleasure of meeting Brian. I believe you saved me and a couple of my comrades from an overturned boat on a local river that was pinned against some rocks. I have been using sage gear rods for a long time and have put them through the ringer. They are very tough rods and and in my experience are the highest quality rod money can buy. The performance is second to none.I have had them in almost every situation imaginable and still have landed fish in some of the most outrageous situations. It is my opinion that my personnel success has been due, in a large part, to the performance of these rods. I own almost all the sage gear rods. My first sage rod was a CP2106, brown blank. Since then I have acquired all the newer green blank rods. It is my opinion that the newer green rods are much better than the old brown.But that has been my experience and your may vary. But I guess the bottom line is that everyone has a different style of angling. What works for one guy may not work for the next. It was a sad, sad day for me when I found out that they will no longer be making sage gear rods. If you are passionate as I am bout being on the river, then the sage rods are the way to go. I certainly hope they come back and if they do, I'll be getting a few more rods for sure. Oh... by the way if you ever need guys to test rods... I'm your guy. I have a few ideas myself. I like the green rods and brown. I like Sage, they are all about the customer and back up their stuff like no other company.
hotrod
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I just thought I would share my experience with sage and their blanks. Last year I slipped and fell on my beloved brown 3106 custom built CP rod that I have owned for over 21 years. I was smashed right at the ferrule and the top section was toast. I took to Fred's and they sent it off to Sage. Apparently they couldn't find a matching top section so they sent me back a brand new brown blank. I ended up paying $50.00 for shipping. I have been building rods for 40 years so it was no big deal to roll up the new one. I basically updated the rod with the newest guides, reel seat and cork on the market. I'm very pleased with the way the rod turned out and have christened it on a few Steelhead this season.
I have to say i was pretty impressed with how everything was handled from Sage's end. I'm currently building a 9' 6wt Z-Axis for myself and a 14' 3" 8wt Z-Axis spey with my son.
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So Brian how is the warranty going to work now for gear rods? If we have a brown blank rod and have a break do we contact you or do we contact sage?
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So Brian how is the warranty going to work now for gear rods? If we have a brown blank rod and have a break do we contact you or do we contact sage?
From what I have herd is that if you break your Brown blank you deal directly with Sage, if you break one of Brian's new Green ones then you deal with Brian.
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From what I have herd is that if you break your Brown blank you deal directly with Sage, if you break one of Brian's new Green ones then you deal with Brian.
You can deal with Sage on both colours if you choose. But ultimately, yes Geff, you are correct.
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I will be handling the warranty on any of my Sage builds going forward. Anything prior, must go through Sage.
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who is Brian Babcock ?................is this just a user name ? or is he a real guy ?
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Had a broken tip on my ct2106. Sage replaced the whole top half of rod. Easy peasy. $50 shipping its good as new! I love Sage Just got it back yesterday and nailed steelies all day today! YEEE HAAA!
hotrod
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You're pretty funny Jim. Just remember, I've known you since you were a little brat coming in my store wanting to learn how to fish! Don't make me start telling stories.........
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I think i bought my first custom flyrod from you in 1990, sage 896 RPL ....285$....still have it.
All in good fun Brian.........cant wait to see some of the new rods.