Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: clarki on October 30, 2022, 04:37:04 PM
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I’ve started volunteering with Arocha https://arocha.ca/what-we-do/conservation/ (https://arocha.ca/what-we-do/conservation/) on a chinook spawner survey on the Little Campbell River. This 3 yr project is a partnership between Arocha, the Semiahmoo Fish and Game Club hatchery and DFO. The goal of the project is to inform enhancement and regulatory efforts of LC chinook and recovery planning for Boundary Bay chinook.
One of the purposes of the survey work I’m involved with is a better understanding of the presence of clipped chinook in the river. The hatchery produces and releases chinook, but it hasn’t clipped them for many years. Yet, in the fall, clipped chinook return to the river. Where are these chinook coming from? is one of the questions to be answered.
A couple times a week, teams walk the river, to collect head samples of dead clipped chinook, as well as to record carcass measurements and observations. The collected heads of the clipped chinook will be dissected for the presence of a coded wire tag (CWT). The CWT will tell us what other rivers the stray clipped chinook originated from.
I walked the river yesterday and, in the reach we were on, we recovered 10 chinook carcasses, 2 of which were clipped. The 2 clipped fish were both jacks. Interestingly, the remaining 8 fish were mostly bucks and many were unspawned, or partially spawned. I wondered if the drought delayed their migration enough that it affected their ability to spawn successfully? During yesterday’s walk there were still many chinook in the river. River walks will continue until late November in order to recover as many as possible.
I’ll report back when we get the 2022 CWT data back from DFO.
Cheers.
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Good stuff Scott; please keep us appraised. Thank you.
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I believe most hatchery raised chinook released in Washington State are clipped. Canada agreed to do the same in the latest edition of the Pacific Salmon Treaty but has not as yet acquired the equipment to do so.
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My understanding is that US hatcheries clip all chinook, whereas Canadian hatcheries only clip chinook with an embedded CWT and that the Semiahmoo hatchery started clipping their chinook this year.
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Are these fish adipose clipped? The Semiahmoo hatchery used to clip pelvic fins, alternating left and right with even and odd years to establish a base line for when the fish were returning, 3 years or 4. That is going back well over a decade ago, probably two now, from when the Boundary Bay stocks were not well studied. I can remember the old timers (not many around anymore, miss them) at the Boundary Bay hatcheries using a slang term, "Boundary Bay Pinks," to describe the Chinook in those rivers as there meat was very distinct. Between these American fish, and all the strains that were introduced to rebuild stocks that pure strain is probably long gone now though
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I’ve started volunteering with Arocha https://arocha.ca/what-we-do/conservation/ (https://arocha.ca/what-we-do/conservation/) on a chinook spawner survey on the Little Campbell River. This 3 yr project is a partnership between Arocha, the Semiahmoo Fish and Game Club hatchery and DFO. The goal of the project is to inform enhancement and regulatory efforts of LC chinook and recovery planning for Boundary Bay chinook.
One of the purposes of the survey work I’m involved with is a better understanding of the presence of clipped chinook in the river. The hatchery produces and releases chinook, but it hasn’t clipped them for many years. Yet, in the fall, clipped chinook return to the river. Where are these chinook coming from? is one of the questions to be answered.
A couple times a week, teams walk the river, to collect head samples of dead clipped chinook, as well as to record carcass measurements and observations. The collected heads of the clipped chinook will be dissected for the presence of a coded wire tag (CWT). The CWT will tell us what other rivers the stray clipped chinook originated from.
I walked the river yesterday and, in the reach we were on, we recovered 10 chinook carcasses, 2 of which were clipped. The 2 clipped fish were both jacks. Interestingly, the remaining 8 fish were mostly bucks and many were unspawned, or partially spawned. I wondered if the drought delayed their migration enough that it affected their ability to spawn successfully? During yesterday’s walk there were still many chinook in the river. River walks will continue until late November in order to recover as many as possible.
I’ll report back when we get the 2022 CWT data back from DFO.
Cheers.
The pre spawning mortality you document could be a stress related problem ie. low, warm water. This is common with sockeye when subjected to high or warm water and is a major cause of straying. Thing is straying sockeye, due to their life history, have little chance of spawning recruitment but coastal chinook may be different.
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Are these fish adipose clipped?
The ones that we are recovering are adipose clipped. If you are referring to how the hatchery has begun clipping their chinook. Don't know...yet. I'll know better as my involvement with the project deepens.
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I work at the LC hatchery as a volunteer and can tell you that all the chinook that are hatchery are clipped .
The run to the hatchery for this year is almost done and the numbers always favour the wild .
I assume because the wild Chinook have to be released .
They used to clip the pelvic fin but they found this affected the mobility of the fish .
Obviously now its the adipose , same with the Coho
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I believe most hatchery raised chinook released in Washington State are clipped. Canada agreed to do the same in the latest edition of the Pacific Salmon Treaty but has not as yet acquired the equipment to do so.
All the Chinook smolts this year were nose tagged , the Little Campbell released 42,000 they were all adipose fin clipped as well .
This is done every year .
I took part in the clipping of the Coho along with the many other volunteers .
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I work at the LC hatchery as a volunteer and can tell you that all the chinook that are hatchery are clipped .
The run to the hatchery for this year is almost done and the numbers always favour the wild .
I assume because the wild Chinook have to be released .
They used to clip the pelvic fin but they found this affected the mobility of the fish .
Obviously now its the adipose , same with the Coho
Looks like we a working at different ends of the same project!
My understanding is that the hatchery only recently started clipping chinook (in fact this may be the first for that) and for the adult morts we are surveying this year, any clipped chinook are not LC origin.
You’re saying that’s not the case?
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I don't know the exact year, but the freshwater salmon supplement has outlined that LC chinooks have had to be hatchery clipped for retention for quite a few years now.
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Looks like we a working at different ends of the same project!
My understanding is that the hatchery only recently started clipping chinook (in fact this may be the first for that) and for the adult morts we are surveying this year, any clipped chinook are not LC origin.
You’re saying that’s not the case?
We are !
Coho and Chinook are both clipped and when the fish return the fishing regs state that only the hatchery clipped fish can be kept .
Its a small run and the wild out number the Hatchery fish 5 to one .All the clipped will be Little Campbell origin
We raised and released 42, 000. good for a small hatchery
The hatchery has clipped fish for marking , same as the Chilliwack , for many years at least 5 that I know of .
The exception being one year because of covid (of course )
This year DFO nose tagged all 42, 000 for tracking
Will be interesting to see where they go after 3 or 4 years
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The hatchery has clipped fish for marking , same as the Chilliwack , for many years at least 5 that I know of .
That's interesting... I was told (or at least my understanding is) that the hatchery has not clipped chinook for many years, that this is the first year that they have, and any clipped fish that we encounter are strays.
But you would have first hand knowledge on the subject!
I've gone back to my project lead to understand what's missing.
Cheers.
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Best I know there is no mass marking of hatchery chinook in BC though Canada has committed to do so as I mentioned above. mass marking of chinook is done by machine. The LC is the only stream in Region 2 that allows retention of marked chinook only.
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The Chinook this year were imbedded with the CWT , its done by a machine and this was done by DFO who attended the hatchery
At the same time they did the adipose clipping .
Unfortunately I wasnt there the day they did this but was part of the Coho clipping
There are a number of wild chinooks in the LC run every year ,only clipped Chinooks can be kept when fishing .
Retention ended in Oct 15th
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Are these a native stock of Chinook or are they also Harrison transplants?
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Are these a native stock of Chinook or are they also Harrison transplants?
I am not that familiar with the LC, but do know the other two Canadian Boundary Bay systems quite well. The true native Chinook are probably non existent today. For years they took various runs and transplanted them including the Harrison whites you mention. But don't think and whites have been stocked in 20 years or close to. That being said, and after handling literally thousands of fish in that area, 98% of the Chinook are descendents of reds from various DFO hatcheries in the 1990s with the other 2% still hold Harrison White genes. Have that smell to them.
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Are these a native stock of Chinook or are they also Harrison transplants?
Thats a good question .
I know that DFO got serious about salmon conservation in the 80's and the LC hatchery benefitted
But the history of the Semi Fish and Game Club goes back to the 1950's when several community members wanted to save the health of the river but stopping the destructive gravel extraction practices .
They worked to keep the health of the river , this may have included fostering these 2 salmon species Coho and Chinook .
Unfortunately like all things this info is only known by the older members , many who have passed .
Will go thru the archives because I am interested to know if they are native as well , they could be given that this watershed was kept in this manner from early on .
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Look forward to hearing if you find anything salmonrook. i have always thought LC chinook are native. Chinook in the Salmon are native there has not been an introduction of other stocks. The chinook in the Serpentine and Nicomekl were extirpated early in the last century (as were chum). Harrison fish were introduced in the 80s. I have caught a few and they are whites. The latest post season stocking report I have (2019) indicates brood stock are sourced directly from hatchery returns to those 3 rivers.
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To add to the conversation, I found a couple of online mentions of the origins of hatchery chinook in the LC (fact checking welcome!)
In 2010, an article in a Surrey paper reported that "The species was introduced to the Little Campbell in 1980" (clarki note: this appears to predate construction of the hatchery in 1983)
And...
Mature fish in the Southern Mainland Boundary Bay population spawn in tributaries to Boundary Bay such as the Serpentine, Nicomekl and Little Campbell rivers. This wildlife species occurs in highly altered freshwater and marine habitats. Ongoing low marine survival, bycatch, and fish culture effects are cumulative threats to the remaining wild fish. Hatchery releases are ongoing and have included fish from other populations, threatening the genetic integrity of the few remaining wild fish. While hatchery production has allowed the total population size to increase, a consensus of expert opinion estimates fewer than 1000 mature wild fish remain.
https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/species-risk-public-registry/cosewic-assessments-status-reports/chinook-salmon-2020.html
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Over the years i have read a number of stream and salmon surveys for Surrey streams. All commented that Chinook had been extirpated from the Serpentine & Nicomekl though a native small native run existed in the LC. The fish I have caught in the former 2 looked like Harrison whites (except maybe 1). When I was involved with the Alouette Hatchery there was an attempt to introduce a summer run to replace the similar run that was extirpated by the dam construction. Instead DFO put Harrison whites in and that's still what goes in there today. Ditto for the Cap'.
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My understanding is they tried Harrison whites and it was not very successful, huge fish but only a small amount returned.
I believe they then got brood from Washington state and that’s what’s there today. Now classified as CU boundary bay stock
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My understanding is they tried Harrison whites and it was not very successful, huge fish but only a small amount returned.
I believe they then got brood from Washington state and that’s what’s there today. Now classified as CU boundary bay stock
Ok that could be. However if the native population is long gone from 2 of those rivers why is DFO putting together a summary for COSEWIC status for a population that is introduced and only survives through hatchery reproduction? Yet they ignore the cutthroat in those rivers which are likely not any more numerous, certainly not artificially propagated and in more need of protection! NO sense in that at all.
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Look forward to hearing if you find anything salmonrook. i have always thought LC chinook are native. Chinook in the Salmon are native there has not been an introduction of other stocks. The chinook in the Serpentine and Nicomekl were extirpated early in the last century (as were chum). Harrison fish were introduced in the 80s. I have caught a few and they are whites. The latest post season stocking report I have (2019) indicates brood stock are sourced directly from hatchery returns to those 3 rivers.
Thanks
Will do more research on the subject , I thought the Chinook were native on the LC as they were involved as a hatchery early on .
They were one of the first volunteer hatcheries and even pioneered the fish fence design that you see in other hatcheries .
It brings up a interesting question because we have 2 different looking Chinooks , one shows up and has a dark body and is usually started its spawning because it already has rotting fins . The other one shows up and its basically green and highly spotted , these ones are usually in better shape and smaller . I think this is the difference between reds and whites ?
Our run is small and we do a count every year but the wilds outnumber the hatchery fish 5 to 1 .
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However if the native population is long gone from 2 of those rivers why is DFO putting together a summary for COSEWIC status for a population that is introduced and only survives through hatchery reproduction?
Yet they ignore the cutthroat in those rivers which are likely not any more numerous, certainly not artificially propagated and in more need of protection! NO sense in that at all.
Fully agreed with you on this and the decline of BB Cuthtroat. Just to clarify (you probably meant that anyway) - I don't think DFO is to blame for the hatchery cuthtroat program ending. I believe this is BC jurisdiction so not sure that both decisions are coming from the same place
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Fully agreed with you on this and the decline of BB Cuthtroat. Just to clarify (you probably meant that anyway) - I don't think DFO is to blame for the hatchery cuthtroat program ending. I believe this is BC jurisdiction so not sure that both decisions are coming from the same place
Cutthroat are 100% the province's fish to worry about.
DFO has virtually zero to do with the actual management of the species except to decide on if you can keep them in saltwater.
the province decided a few years ago to get rid of the hatchery program for curtthroat trout for a variety of reason.
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COSEWIC is a Federal government program enabled through the 2002 Species at Risk Act which appointed the Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada to identify both endangered species and those whose habitat or existence may be in jeopardy. Constitutionally, by the BNA Act, the Federal government does have responsibility for all aquatic species and environments including inland waterways but early in the 20th century these were delegated to the Provinces and Territories. Likewise the Feds have primary responsibility for freshwater salmon as well as trout habitat. Responsibility can be delegated but never be revoked. It may be primarily up to the Province to put forward cutthroat in watershed where they may be endangered. Bull trout have COSEWIC status so why not sea run cutthroat? Westslope cutthroat also have COSEWIC status.
https://www.sararegistry.gc.ca/virtual_sara/files/cosewic/sr_omble_tete_plat_bull_trout_1113_e.pdf
https://www.registrelep-sararegistry.gc.ca/virtual_sara/files/cosewic/sr_oncorhynchus_clarkii_lewisi_e.pd
BTW the Province considered the cancellation of the searun cutthroat stocking program well over ten years before it actually took place if not earlier. That it happened in had more to do with changing personnel . It was the same with the Thompson bait ban. All these decisions required unanimous agreement and didn't happen until some opposed left the service.
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I did cutthroat brood stock angling for the LC for over 5 years. After they ended the program the numbers dropped significantly after 2 years. The anglers I've talked to on the river say they rarely if ever catch one now.
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the province decided a few years ago to get rid of the hatchery program for curtthroat trout for a variety of reason.
The program ended when they decided that the wild stocks should be allowed to reproduce and recover naturally .
Its not going to happen and the fishery on the Little Campbell was a catch and release for wild fish
Maybe they thought the wild stocks would have a better gene pool without mixing with the hatchery fish
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Over the years i have read a number of stream and salmon surveys for Surrey streams. All commented that Chinook had been extirpated from the Serpentine & Nicomekl though a native small native run existed in the LC. The fish I have caught in the former 2 looked like Harrison whites (except maybe 1). When I was involved with the Alouette Hatchery there was an attempt to introduce a summer run to replace the similar run that was extirpated by the dam construction. Instead DFO put Harrison whites in and that's still what goes in there today. Ditto for the Cap'.
Was able to find some stats from the LC that noted that when the hatchery started they had wild populations of Chinook recorded when they did a fish count . To me this confirms that they did have a native run and it had survived through all the years .
It wasnt a large number back then and has survived .
The numbers this year were good for the unclipped wild fish so I believe that the run is in good shape inspite of it being a small number.
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The program ended when they decided that the wild stocks should be allowed to reproduce and recover naturally .
Its not going to happen and the fishery on the Little Campbell was a catch and release for wild fish
Maybe they thought the wild stocks would have a better gene pool without mixing with the hatchery fish
That's what they told us when we met with them.
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Not LC related but other tribs here in the LM. I myself have noticed over the last 3 years that I have caught significantly more and more cutthroat every salmon season. I've gone from maybe 3 or 4 a season to close to 20. This year is tracking nicely with 13.
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Not LC related but other tribs here in the LM. I myself have noticed over the last 3 years that I have caught significantly more and more cutthroat every salmon season. I've gone from maybe 3 or 4 a season to close to 20. This year is tracking nicely with 13.
Are they wild or hatchery , I dont know if the other systems still have a cutthroat release like the LC did
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The program ended when they decided that the wild stocks should be allowed to reproduce and recover naturally .
Its not going to happen and the fishery on the Little Campbell was a catch and release for wild fish
Maybe they thought the wild stocks would have a better gene pool without mixing with the hatchery fish
Hatchery supplementation of cutthroat in the Serpentine and Nicomekl stopped in the early 90s. Cutthroat are hanging in the there so requirement for a hatchery program is doubtful. Numbers seem to fluctuate on some sort of cycle of years. This year I believe there has been a bounce back relative to the last few years and I caught a reasonable number of smaller fish. over the 20+ years since stocking ended I had years when i caught far more fish in a season than i recall my father and i catching back in the 60s and early 70s. Larger fish, over 15 inches or so seem to have all but disappeared. Poaching may play a part. Those fish are really important as they contribute far more spawn and fry than smaller fish. I think cutthroat in these streams need a wild trout policy that would include a bait ban,extended closures and targeted habitat recovery.
The Province policy on enhancement of sea run cutthroat and steelhead call for use of wild brood stock only plus a minimum wild spawning population before wild fish are taken for brood. This was almost never achieved with SRCs
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Further to the cutthroat , one came through the fish count today on the LC , its was wild , of course and pretty sure it was female .
About 12 inches , a beautiful fish , we thought at first that it was a chinook jack but the slash on the jaw and the curved jaws confirmed it .
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So, a follow up on this project...
Semiahmoo Fish and Game Club hatchery staff/volunteers counted how many clipped and non clipped chinook passed through the fish fence. Throughout Oct and Nov, teams from A Rocha walked an approx 4 km stretch of river from the hatchery to 24 Ave, counting and doing observations of clipped and non clipped chinook and doing a head recovery of clipped fish to recover any coded wire tag (CWT). This is what we recently learned from DFO:
- ~50 % of the clipped fish that passed the fence were recovered/counted
- ~18 % of non-clipped fish were recovered
- 3 of the clipped fish had CWTs
- 72 of the clipped fish didn't have CWTs
- all 3 fish with the CWTs came from the Samish River in WA state
The Samish River hatchery clips all chinook, but only tags approx 3-4%. Since their proportion of clipped tagged vs clipped untagged matches our recovery, DFO estimates that all the clipped fish in the LC in 2022 were from the Samish River.
Couple of things that I find interesting:
1) The Samish is about 50 km (as the crow flies) south and there are a couple of hatcheries that produce fall chinook that are closer to the Little Campbell than the Samish; the Whatcom Creek Hatchery in Bellingham and the Lummi Bay hatchery. Both are much closer to the LC than the Samish, so it's curious to me why only Samish fall chinook are showing up in the LC and not fish from the other two. (The Lummi Bay website says that they work cooperatively with Samish River and Whatcom Creek hatcheries so maybe that's part of it...)
2) We found almost three times as many clipped fish in the lower reaches of river than non clipped. It's interesting to me that non clipped fish shoot further upstream to spawn than clipped fish do.
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So, a follow up on this project...
Semiahmoo Fish and Game Club hatchery staff/volunteers counted how many clipped and non clipped chinook passed through the fish fence. Throughout Oct and Nov, teams from A Rocha walked an approx 4 km stretch of river from the hatchery to 24 Ave, counting and doing observations of clipped and non clipped chinook and doing a head recovery of clipped fish to recover any coded wire tag (CWT). This is what we recently learned from DFO:
- ~50 % of the clipped fish that passed the fence were recovered/counted
- ~18 % of non-clipped fish were recovered
- 3 of the clipped fish had CWTs
- 72 clipped of the clipped fish didn't have CWTs
- all 3 fish with the CWTs came from the Samish River in WA state
The Samish River hatchery clips all chinook, but only tags approx 3-4%. Since their proportion of clipped tagged vs clipped untagged matches our recovery, DFO estimates that all the clipped fish in the LC in 2022 were from the Samish River.
Couple of things that I find interesting:
1) The Samish is about 50 km (as the crow flies) south and there are a couple of hatcheries that produce fall chinook that are closer to the Little Campbell than the Samish; the Whatcom Creek Hatchery in Bellingham and the Lummi Bay hatchery. Both are much closer to the LC than the Samish, so it's curious to me why only Samish fall chinook are showing up in the LC and not fish from the other two. (The Lummi Bay website says that they work cooperatively with Samish River and Whatcom Creek hatcheries so maybe that's part of it...)
2) We found almost three times as many clipped fish in the lower reaches of river than non clipped. It's interesting to me that non clipped fish shoot further upstream to spawn than non clipped fish do.
very interesting! thanks for sharing
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2) We found almost three times as many clipped fish in the lower reaches of river than non clipped. It's interesting to me that non clipped fish shoot further upstream to spawn than clipped fish do.
The hatchery fish are only returning to the specific location where they were released .
All of the Chinook and Coho are released right at the hatchery and you'd be surprised how accurate they are returning in the fall .
In most cases the Coho even try to get back to the outlet pipe of the Coho pond where they are released .
Chinook and Wild Coho would spawn upstream of the hatchery after being released through the fish fence .
We did observe Coho spawning right below the fish fence but that was maybe to do low water conditions at the start of the season .
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The hatchery fish are only returning to the specific location where they were released .
All of the Chinook and Coho are released right at the hatchery and you'd be surprised how accurate they are returning in the fall .
In most cases the Coho even try to get back to the outlet pipe of the Coho pond where they are released .
Chinook and Wild Coho would spawn upstream of the hatchery after being released through the fish fence .
We did observe Coho spawning right below the fish fence but that was maybe to do low water conditions at the start of the season .
And I guess this comes back to our difference in understanding about the origin of the clipped fish…
DFO concluded that all of the clipped fish that returned to the Campbell last fall were likely to be Samish River origin. So it’s still interesting to me why more clipped fish were found in the 2-3 mile stretch of river upstream of the hatchery that we surveyed, than non clipped fish.
You make a good point about the draw of the hatchery. Since the Samish River hatchery is about 5 miles from the tidewater, perhaps Samish R fish are predisposed to only migrate a short distance upstream in the Campbell. The would put them right where we found them.
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And I guess this comes back to our difference in understanding about the origin of the clipped fish…
DFO concluded that all of the clipped fish that returned to the Campbell last fall were likely to be Samish River origin. So it’s still interesting to me why more clipped fish were found in the 2-3 mile stretch of river upstream of the hatchery that we surveyed, than non clipped fish.
You make a good point about the draw of the hatchery. Since the Samish River hatchery is about 5 miles from the tidewater, perhaps Samish R fish are predisposed to only migrate a short distance upstream in the Campbell. The would put them right where we found them.
The clipped fish that you are quoting are just the Chinook as the Coho are clipped by the Little Campbell volunteers and they would be of Little Campbell origin .
The clipped Chinook that you recovered would have been released 3-4 years ago .
I dont believe that the Chinook were clipped back then by the LCH
Maybe some of the Samish Chinook are spending time in the Little Campbell estuary ?
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The clipped fish that you are quoting are just the Chinook as the Coho are clipped by the Little Campbell volunteers and they would be of Little Campbell origin .
The clipped Chinook that you recovered would have been released 3-4 years ago .
I dont believe that the Chinook were clipped back then by the LCH
Correct. I’m just speaking about chinook. Yes, LCH didn’t used to clip their chinook so any clipped chinook that we recovered last fall were all strays from the Samish.
The recovery project that I’m participating is a three year project (2022-2024) as 2025 is when we expected to see the first returns of the chinook that were clipped by LCH this year.