Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: chris gadsden on September 28, 2012, 04:47:27 AM
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http://www.facebook.com/groups/111365508874859/permalink/502888549722551/
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Good news from Don. Just great news. ;D ;D ;D
I won!!! Cermaq's case is dismissed. Read judgment online via http://donstaniford.typepad.com/my-b...
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Thats wonderful news Chris, just fabulous !!! Congratulations to Don and anyone else out there that believes in Free Speech.
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Interesting decision. Guilty of defamation but saved by fair comment because of scientific debate and because he actually believes the stuff he makes up.
[185] There are many problems with Mr. Staniford’s credibility. The passage from his cross-examination which I quoted above, concerning what happened at the May 2006 Meeting, is but one example of where Mr. Staniford will twist facts to conform to his own personal view. Unless firmly corroborated by other reliable sources, I would not accept Mr. Staniford’s version of disputed facts, since his closed-mindedness and deep prejudices make him an unreliable reporter of facts. I have concluded that he will say almost anything to further his own agenda.
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Interesting decision. Guilty of defamation but saved by fair comment because of scientific debate and because he actually believes the stuff he makes up.
[185] There are many problems with Mr. Staniford’s credibility. The passage from his cross-examination which I quoted above, concerning what happened at the May 2006 Meeting, is but one example of where Mr. Staniford will twist facts to conform to his own personal view. Unless firmly corroborated by other reliable sources, I would not accept Mr. Staniford’s version of disputed facts, since his closed-mindedness and deep prejudices make him an unreliable reporter of facts. I have concluded that he will say almost anything to further his own agenda.
Just maybe stated so Cermaq can feel a little better after spending all the money on this case. Freedom of speech still alive. ;D ;D ;D
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http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/national/Activist+wins+defamation+case+launched+salmonfarming+company/7316662/story.html
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I haven't been following Don's blogs or whatever he does but the last I heard he had been given a bicycle by his Norwegian employers ... to do and carry out the valuable work he does ;D
Does anyone know, is he still biking around Norway? Coastal areas maybe, lol
Bigger question though is as he won this case, is he responsible for court costs? If not, all you people who donated your cash to this man (I personally know one person) should be expecting a cheque and a thankyou letter in the mail soon. Let us know when you receive yours. :D
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Was a pleasure to help Don and win this case. We will looking forward to a welcoming party in the new year. What ia year it will be, the Liberals out and Don in. ;D ;D ;D
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http://www.youtube.com/embed/5cMi0PHTxHE?eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ctvvancouverisland.ca%2F&html5=1
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Was a pleasure to help Don and win this case. We will looking forward to a welcoming party in the new year. What ia year it will be, the Liberals out and Don in. ;D ;D ;D
x2 8)
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http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/09/28/bc-anti-salmon-farming-activist-ruling.html
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I haven't been following Don's blogs or whatever he does but the last I heard he had been given a bicycle by his Norwegian employers ... to do and carry out the valuable work he does ;D
Does anyone know, is he still biking around Norway? Coastal areas maybe, lol
Bigger question though is as he won this case, is he responsible for court costs? If not, all you people who donated your cash to this man (I personally know one person) should be expecting a cheque and a thankyou letter in the mail soon. Let us know when you receive yours. :D
Sour grapes Dave? Even if the court awards costs, they are usually a fraction of the actual costs of the defendant.
Congrats to Don and his fight for free speech!
Now hopefully Cohen will rule that the feedlots get out of the ocean......
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Sour grapes Dave? Even if the court awards costs, they are usually a fraction of the actual costs of the defendant.
Congrats to Don and his fight for free speech!
Now hopefully Cohen will rule that the feedlots get out of the ocean......
X10
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Was a pleasure to help Don and win this case. We will looking forward to a welcoming party in the new year. What ia year it will be, the Liberals out and Don in. ;D ;D ;D
the liberals out? musta been short sentences.......or early parole ;D ;D
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Staniford may have escaped paying damages (or more accurately, his supporters may have escaped paying damages on his behalf) but a judgement has indeed been made:
In her ruling published Friday, Adair said while the statements were defamatory and Staniford was motivated by malice..........
There are many problems with Mr. Staniford’s credibility. The passage from his cross-examination which I quoted above, concerning what happened at the May 2006 Meeting, is but one example of where Mr. Staniford will twist facts to conform to his own personal view. Unless firmly corroborated by other reliable sources, I would not accept Mr. Staniford’s version of disputed facts, since his closed-mindedness and deep prejudices make him an unreliable reporter of facts. I have concluded that he will say almost anything to further his own agenda.
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Staniford may have escaped paying damages (or more accurately, his supporters may have escaped paying damages on his behalf) but a judgement has indeed been made:
In her ruling published Friday, Adair said while the statements were defamatory and Staniford was motivated by malice..........
There are many problems with Mr. Staniford’s credibility. The passage from his cross-examination which I quoted above, concerning what happened at the May 2006 Meeting, is but one example of where Mr. Staniford will twist facts to conform to his own personal view. Unless firmly corroborated by other reliable sources, I would not accept Mr. Staniford’s version of disputed facts, since his closed-mindedness and deep prejudices make him an unreliable reporter of facts. I have concluded that he will say almost anything to further his own agenda.
WoW Absolon, credibility, twist facts, close minded, deep prejudices, unreliable and will say anything to further their own agenda. Sure sounds like the fish farming industry to me. ::) :-\ ::)
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Sour grapes Dave?
Not at all. Staniford is a buffoon and as such supplies comedic relief to these issues; he and Ms. Morton are well suited to each other. Wonder if he will wear his condom suit again the next time he attempts to sway public opinion ;D
You being an astute moneyman must have been issued a receipt by Don ... uh, you did help him financially, right?
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Staniford may have escaped paying damages (or more accurately, his supporters may have escaped paying damages on his behalf) but a judgement has indeed been made:
It appears you are much happier about the results of the trial than Cermaq is...... "The ruling left officials at Mainstream Canada, a subsidiary of the Norwegian company Cermaq, disappointed. ......... outrageous." ::)
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I can only surmise how miserable your existence must be if that is what you think being happy sounds like. I'd consider my comment to be a simple summation of the facts.
One can certainly understand Mainstream's disappointment when the judge acknowledges that someone who "will say anything to further his own agenda" did indeed defame the company and did so out of malice and yet that same individual whose "closed-mindedness and deep prejudices make him an unreliable reporter of facts" is not found guilty of defamation.
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WoW Absolon, credibility, twist facts, close minded, deep prejudices, unreliable and will say anything to further their own agenda. Sure sounds like the fish farming industry to me. ::) :-\ ::)
It would appear you have something in common with Staniford.
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It's amusing how a win for the good guys brings out the insults from the feedlot boys...... ;D
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What insult?
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It's amusing how a win for the good guys brings out the insults from the feedlot boys...... ;D
The only insult I see is mine aimed at Staniford and because I believe what I said I must be innocent ...
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What insult?
I can see where AF is coming from, absolon. When someone compares someones else to "Don Staniford" I can see how it can come off as being insulting. The judge did describe him as closed-minded person with deep prejudices that make him an unreliable reporter of facts. Ted Kaczynski is probably more trustworthy.
I think Don could pass as Ted Kaczynski at Halloween. A little more work on the beard and a few less stops at McDonalds and I think he is there. You be the judge...lol.
(http://donstaniford.typepad.com/.a/6a016766faffa0970b017c3231185e970b-800wi)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AD96Jxdi7UA/T8DFvd-PX3I/AAAAAAAABnk/eR0pNCo-Hqc/s1600/unabomberarrested.jpg)
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I can see where AF is coming from, absolon. When someone compares someones else to "Don Staniford" I can see how it can come off as being insulting. The judge did describe him as closed-minded person with deep prejudices that make him an unreliable reporter of facts. Ted Kaczynski is probably more trustworthy.
I think Don could pass as Ted Kaczynski at Halloween. A little more work on the beard and a few less stops at McDonalds and I think he is there. You be the judge...lol.
(http://donstaniford.typepad.com/.a/6a016766faffa0970b017c3231185e970b-800wi)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AD96Jxdi7UA/T8DFvd-PX3I/AAAAAAAABnk/eR0pNCo-Hqc/s1600/unabomberarrested.jpg)
I hope you are out celebrating BC Rivers Day tomorrow and maybe putting something back to the rivers that give us so much enjoyment. :D
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I think Steve does that every working day of the year.
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(http://donstaniford.typepad.com/.a/6a016766faffa0970b017c3231185e970b-800wi)
Note the job title Staniford wrote in on the right breast of his cover-alls, presumably to let everyone know he has an important job. Either that or to make sure people recognize he isn't the Unabomber
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I think Steve does that every working day of the year.
Good show, volunteer or paid. ;D ;D
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Good show, volunteer or paid. ;D ;D
Although I poke fun at Don's expense I would not be doing this to you, Chris. Despite our obvious differences in opinion with this issue I do appreciate the hours and hours of volunteer work you do on behalf of the fisheries resource in this province. My father used to do a lot of fisheries volunteer work in his retirement years before he passed on. I used to do more volunteering before, but working with fish and being a father of an 18 month old daughter takes up most of my time these days.
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Although I poke fun at Don's expense I would not be doing this to you, Chris. Despite our obvious differences in opinion with this issue I do appreciate the hours and hours of volunteer work you do on behalf of the fisheries resource in this province. My father used to do a lot of fisheries volunteer work in his retirement years before he passed on. I used to do more volunteering before, but working with fish and being a father of an 18 month old daughter takes up most of my time these days.
Yes, I appreciate that family comes first and having a young child takes a lot of time, I remember those days too and now with 5 grandchildren and one on he way I am starting to realize that once again. ;D
This makes one want to work harder to preserve what I am sure our fathers both did for many years, enjoying the outdoors and fishing when stock depletion were the furthest thing from their minds. Maybe one day, our children and grandchildren will once again see those "good old days", that is if enough of us care and work towards that end.
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Staniford may have escaped paying damages (or more accurately, his supporters may have escaped paying damages on his behalf) but a judgement has indeed been made:
In her ruling published Friday, Adair said while the statements were defamatory and Staniford was motivated by malice..........
There are many problems with Mr. Staniford’s credibility. The passage from his cross-examination which I quoted above, concerning what happened at the May 2006 Meeting, is but one example of where Mr. Staniford will twist facts to conform to his own personal view. Unless firmly corroborated by other reliable sources, I would not accept Mr. Staniford’s version of disputed facts, since his closed-mindedness and deep prejudices make him an unreliable reporter of facts. I have concluded that he will say almost anything to further his own agenda.
Still got the job done which is the important thing, many of us are still celebrating, hard to wait for his return, what a day it will be. ;D ;D ;D
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What job did he get done Chris?
Only things I can think of are that he managed to convince a bunch of you to pay both his living expenses for a couple of years as well as his recent court costs. He also managed to get away with malicious defamation but got deported in the process so that isn't really a win.
Other than that, I can't think of a single thing he's accomplished. He hasn't caused any changes to the aquaculture regulations nor influenced a single policy maker. The public, other than you guys, haven't a clue who he is; the only time he hit the mainstream press was his court case. His own fairly obscure blog where he posted the defamations doesn't count for much; it's nothing more than singing to all you folks who are already in the choir and doesn't attract any mainstream attention.
So what job did he get done?
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What job did he get done Chris?
Only things I can think of are that he managed to convince a bunch of you to pay both his living expenses for a couple of years as well as his recent court costs. He also managed to get away with malicious defamation but got deported in the process so that isn't really a win.
Other than that, I can't think of a single thing he's accomplished. He hasn't caused any changes to the aquaculture regulations nor influenced a single policy maker. The public, other than you guys, haven't a clue who he is; the only time he hit the mainstream press was his court case. His own fairly obscure blog where he posted the defamations doesn't count for much; it's nothing more than singing to all you folks who are already in the choir and doesn't attract any mainstream attention.
So what job did he get done?
I think if you have been following this subject closely like most of us you should know. ;D ;D
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I suggest that wild salmon are the most important species defining the West Coast culture and are the basis for much of the wild life that exists on the coast. If we lose them we lose much more than just wild salmon.
Don is only one person out of many that recognize this and are doing what they can to make the public aware of the forces that are destroying wild salmon.
Supporters of the feedlot business are not reliable critics of Don's efforts.
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Supporters of the feedlot business are not reliable critics of Don's efforts.
Which critics of Don's efforts would you consider reliable?
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If you read the beginning of my post you would understand that anyone criticizing Don's efforts doesn't appreciate that we must do everything we can to preserve the wild salmon...
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If you read the beginning of my post you would understand that anyone criticizing Don's efforts doesn't appreciate that we must do everything we can to preserve the wild salmon...
I did read your entire post. I agree with your first line. Wild salmon are a keystone species in the Pacific Northwest. Your last sentence indicates that there may be people who are reliable critics of Don's efforts (apart from the "pro-feedlot" crowd, who you suggest are not reliable critics). I just asked for clarification. Please don't deflect with an insinuation that I'm not able to read a 3 line post.
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Please don't deflect with an insinuation that I'm not able to read a 3 line post.
Just matching your deflection of the point of my post......
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I think if you have been following this subject closely like most of us you should know. ;D ;D
Actually Chris, I've been following the fish farm debate for a lot longer than you and in more detail. In all that time, the only place I've seen any reference to him is the emails from him you used to post and your championing of him. Given that low a profile, I still wonder what job he got done? After all, he had no effect on the practice of fish farming in BC or the regulations that apply to it. What did he accomplish?
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Yep. ;D ;D
http://thecanadian.org/item/1763-rafe-mair-free-speech-salmon-activist-don-stanifords-victory-aquaculture-damien-gillis
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Yep. ;D ;D
http://thecanadian.org/item/1763-rafe-mair-free-speech-salmon-activist-don-stanifords-victory-aquaculture-damien-gillis
"........... this Norwegian-Canadian Goliath allowed its own pride and bullying attitude to draw it into a battle it should never have waged."
Isn't that the truth!!
"In choosing to take this beef into the courts, Mainstream gambled and lost big time. Not only will they have to repay some of Staniford and Sutherland's legals costs as part of the court's judgement, but they suffered yet another black eye in the media."
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Yep. ;D ;D
http://thecanadian.org/item/1763-rafe-mair-free-speech-salmon-activist-don-stanifords-victory-aquaculture-damien-gillis
Well done Don! According to Don's good friend and colleague Damien, the world is now a safer place for Eco-Salmon Warriors to ply their tirades................Though it was actually that old bully pulpit pilot Rafe that did that and Don just rode his coattails and other peoples' wallets through the legal system.
But what has he done for the fish Chris? What has he accomplished for the fish?
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Well done Don! According to Don's good friend and colleague Damien, the world is now a safer place for Eco-Salmon Warriors to ply their tirades................Though it was actually that old bully pulpit pilot Rafe that did that and Don just rode his coattails and other peoples' wallets through the legal system.
But what has he done for the fish Chris? What has he accomplished for the fish?
All you have to do is read all the info posted on this subject and you will see.
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All what info Chris?
Is there some reason why you can't just tell me what he has accomplished? Do I need a to know a secret handshake in order to get the information from you?
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All what info Chris?
Is there some reason why you can't just tell me what he has accomplished? Do I need a to know a secret handshake in order to get the information from you?
Secret Handshake ? only if your a Free Mason.... which you are most probably not...
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Thanks gilbey. That explains it. I'm definitely not a mason.
And here I was beginning to think that the reason Chris wouldn't answer is because he couldn't think of anything constructive that Staniford accomplished or any job he got done.
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And here I was beginning to think that the reason Chris wouldn't answer is because he couldn't think of anything constructive that Staniford accomplished or any job he got done.
:D
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:D
I am so surprised that Abby can not locate this info, oh well he will one day, I think. ;D
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I bet you are Chris ;)
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I am so surprised that Abby can not locate this info, oh well he will one day, I think. ;D
Hey Chris, let's cut to the chase here …“ Abby cannot locate this info” ... because it doesn't exist. You know it, I know it and every follower of this thread definitley knows absolon knows it.
Most times when you're confronted with questions like this your backups back you; so, calling on all you anti’s for something positive to say regarding Staniford’s efforts to save wild BC salmon.
Let's have something he has done to further habitat restoration, curtail over harvesting, oppose or offer alternatives to IPP’s/pipeline expansions, question Northern Pacific ocean ranching, appease an ever growing human population that demands fresh salmon…. you know, the things that are important and will make a difference ;)
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Dave the guy's name is Don not Jesus. :-\ You name me the next Messiah of protecting the fish the way you see it and I'm paying for manna and drinks. :)
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While the court case was going on they tried to vilify Don for the fact he spoke his opinion that feedlots are like tobacco companies; killing machines that are allowed to exist. Now that the courts have dismissed their charges (read; the bullies have been put in their place) their new tact is to suggest that Don has done nothing for wild salmon....
Give it a break boys.... I don't know of any single name that has been given credit for making the public aware that tobacco is a killer and although it still exists as a product, it's ability to "push" it's product has been severely curtailed. Hopefully some day it will disappear totally.
The fight against feedlots in the ocean is similar in that the damage they are doing is not yet well known by the public. Don is just one of many that are making the public aware of the dangers of allowing these cesspools to exist in our oceans.
The tobacco/feedlot analogy is a brilliant way to get the public to understand the feedlot business. Don deserves the credit for pointing that out!
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The problems with your thesis are manifold. The public is almost entirely unaware of Staniford and his campaign to vilify the farms; there was no media coverage of his campaign and indeed, next to no coverage of his trial. You reactionaries in the choir drank up every word but you're already predisposed to seek out and believe anyone who shares your views. The court, while it released Staniford from damages, determined both that he had maliciously defamed Mainstream and that he is not a credible source of information.
Staniford's campaign didn't save a single wild fish. It didn't influence the regulation or practices of the farms or provide any factual, credible information to improve understanding of the effects farms might have on wild stocks. It's sole purpose was to influence the opinion of the public about farms and but it never reached the audience it was seeking. It is questionable whether, even if it had, juvenile tactics such as dressing up in a condom costume or calling all farmers "poopy-heads" would have made any impression on anyone who wasn't already a true believer.
So it all comes back to the initial questions I asked Chris. What job did Staniford get done? What benefit to the wild fish did he accomplish? What real return did all of you who sent him money get for your dollars? I don't mean the emotional satisfaction you took from his juvenile antics. I mean what tangible, on the ground benefit is he responsible for?
And a corollary question.........how can you expect to accomplish your aim to shut down the farm industry if you continue to pick ineffective specimens such as Staniford as your champions?
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The problems with your thesis are manifold. The public is almost entirely unaware of Staniford and his campaign to vilify the farms; there was no media coverage of his campaign and indeed, next to no coverage of his trial.
Com'on Abby....... where's some facts to support your statements. Show me some studies that have been done to prove that Don hasn't been effective in delivering his message. Without studies your arguments are sounding like someone who has eaten a lot of sour grapes. Why don't you just admit that the feedlot business gambled on this one and lost...... big time! ;D
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Com'on Abby....... where's some facts to support your statements. Show me some studies that have been done to prove that Don hasn't been effective in delivering his message. Without studies your arguments are sounding like someone who has eaten a lot of sour grapes. Why don't you just admit that the feedlot business gambled on this one and lost...... big time! ;D
Seriously af, Chris, et al … don't you cringe whenever this man speaks, not knowing what silliness will come next? Can you really support, morally, verbally and financially, a man who dresses in costumes and makes a spectacle of himself and has been called an unreliable source of information? And, perhaps secretly, don't you wish for a more creditable spokesman for your cause? Sure, this fool is on our radar but ask your neighbour or the person beside you at the grocery checkout - who is Don Staniford and what does he stand for?
Hope for some honest answers but don't expect them.
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Seriously af, Chris, et al … don't you cringe whenever this man speaks, not knowing what silliness will come next? Can you really support, morally, verbally and financially, a man who dresses in costumes and makes a spectacle of himself and has been called an unreliable source of information? And, perhaps secretly, don't you wish for a more creditable spokesman for your cause? Sure, this fool is on our radar but ask your neighbour or the person beside you at the grocery checkout - who is Don Staniford and what does he stand for?
Hope for some honest answers but don't expect them.
Mainstream just spent a lot of money taking a "man who dresses in costumes and makes a spectacle of himself" to court. Why didn't they just ignore him if as Abby says, no one is listening to him? To top is all off they lost the case and will have to pay some of his expenses.
Who really is the fool here and unfortunately for you feedlot boys, that reflects back on you guys. Are you aware that you are supporting a bunch of arrogant "fools" who think they can beat people into submission who dare to reveal the damage they are causing to our environment?
Think about it.
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Com'on Abby....... where's some facts to support your statements. Show me some studies that have been done to prove that Don hasn't been effective in delivering his message. Without studies your arguments are sounding like someone who has eaten a lot of sour grapes. Why don't you just admit that the feedlot business gambled on this one and lost...... big time! ;D
You will never convince Abby, Dave and a few others on this, they will try to pick everything and anything apart but without success, I in all respect, will add.
The key word in this is "awareness" that has been brought forward by Don but many do not see this. We will most likely never know what the work Alex, Don Anissa and many others has done to effect the decisions of government in giving more permits for expansions plans and fish farms safety measures on existing pens. Lets see what Cohen says at the end of the month as the fish farm concerns were bought forward by Alex and her lawyer a few months ago. Also the effect their work has on the public buying this product which to many of us is an unhealthy food source.
I know as soon as I post this the pick a part will start but I put this in simple terms because I am just a simple person who tries the best I can to save what is precious to many of us, wild salmon as well as the environment. No fancy or flowery words from me like some do, to try and make what they say is the truth.
I will stand on my record of what I try to do on many fronts the last 30 plus years, as a volunteer.
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Honest and heartfelt answers from both of you, especially the usually silent Chris. Thanks :)
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Honest and heartfelt answers from both of you, especially the usually silent Chris. Thanks :)
You are welcome, working on 5 other projects at this time and doing some fishing, too much time spent on the computer as it is.
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http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/404657/b-c-salmon-farm-appeals-defamation-ruling/
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http://www2.canada.com/courierislander/news/story.html?id=0bd0ad1d-9f32-476e-8d93-d6ff413e48e4
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They are appealing the ruling??? Talk about arrogant corporate rage.... ???
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Time to get out the cheque books again boys, lol ;D