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Author Topic: Get your facts straight?  (Read 1346139 times)

Fisherbob

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1965 on: December 15, 2015, 08:19:34 PM »

Also from the same link Chris. :)
  "Clearly you didn’t read the paper, of you would see there is a formula in there for calculating the growth rate of sea lice in a farm pen. Take a look and give it a try!



You also don’t seem to realize that wild salmon are exposed to sea lice naturally. In fact, *GASP* that’s where they come from in the first place! Wild fish! Whodathunkit."
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Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1966 on: December 15, 2015, 08:20:50 PM »

Who is Mike Armstrong?
How does he conclude one sea louse on a smolt (he doesn't mention what size smolt of course, or species of salmon) kills it?

Read the article again Chris; read the list of authors, then question this fellows logic.
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chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1967 on: December 15, 2015, 09:59:47 PM »

Who is Mike Armstrong?
How does he conclude one sea louse on a smolt (he doesn't mention what size smolt of course, or species of salmon) kills it?

Read the article again Chris; read the list of authors, then question this fellows logic.
I guess  you missed this part.

From your link. "About this blog"

"We are unashamedly pro-aquaculture."

Just saying.lol

Fisherbob

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« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 11:03:02 PM by Fisherbob »
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ClayoquotKid

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1969 on: December 16, 2015, 11:45:16 AM »

I guess  you missed this part.

From your link. "About this blog"

"We are unashamedly pro-aquaculture."

Just saying.lol

This is a prime example of what frustrates me when discussing aquaculture with many critics.

When an opponent makes a claim based on back-of-the-napkin calculations, completely lacking any scientific corroboration, that serves to support the anti view - it is given an immediate pass.

When someone in support of aquaculture makes a counter-claim using evidence or valid methodology it is dismissed - simply due to confirmation bias.

On the topic of sea lice in British Columbia, what models created by people like Krkosek fail to incorporate is the natural world - resulting in an over-simplified and unrealistic result.

You can calculate the amount of larval lice generated using averages of gravid females found in samples on the farm - what you can't realistically estimate is the survival and success of those lice in relation to their ability to attach to passing wild smolts.

(A mortality calculation is used, with no estimate of predation and infection ratio incorporated)

It has been shown in research from Washington State farms that the biomass of filter and detritus feeders on cage systems is significant, and that the variety of fish and other aquatic animals utilising the farms as habitat are also feeding on anything they find in or around the farms.
http://www.wfga.net/documents/marine_finfish_finalreport.pdf

I've personally experienced huge schools of herring, anchovy, and pilchard feeding adjacent to farms.

It is partly because of these natural controls that we don't see lice generated by farmed hosts creating a reliable, measurable increase in infection rates on wild fish nearby.

Also, larval sea lice are zooplankton which wild smolts and other small fish feed on - there's a reason naturally occurring lice get close enough to infect stickleback and salmon in the nearshore environment.

There are also environmental aspects key to louse survival including temperature and salinity that have a major role in their abundance - some years are worse than others.

Simply put, if the models accurately portrayed unnatural, uncontrolled increases in louse abundance related to farmed salmon populations we would see a correlation in survival rates in wild populations adjacent to farming areas.

Not only has this not been seen, but research has shown (Morton's own paper) that there is no statistical difference in areas with and without farms.
"The survival of the pink salmon cohort was not statistically different from a reference region without salmon farms."
http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2010/10/09/icesjms.fsq146.abstract

What we have is researchers creating papers which hypothesise impacts that are not seen at the population level, and only seem to exist in either models or speculative findings.

If farms had an additional negative impact on wild populations it would show up in enumeration work being done all over the coast.

Since we don't see that, I am confident in my opinion that the effects of salmon aquaculture on wild populations are either neutral, or too small to be measured against the vast range of natural impacts.

But, then again, I am unashamedly pro-aquaculture, so...
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 11:46:53 AM by ClayoquotKid »
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chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1970 on: December 16, 2015, 02:25:46 PM »



But, then again, I am unashamedly pro-aquaculture, so...
Thats OK, we understand this as it is your livelihood! :P

Fisherbob

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1971 on: December 16, 2015, 02:47:27 PM »

Thats OK, we understand this as it is your livelihood! :P
Makes more sense than Doc Mortons never get it right livelihood. :)
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chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1972 on: December 16, 2015, 03:53:58 PM »

Makes more sense than Doc Mortons never get it right livelihood. :)
If it was not for Alex you would not be here and nothing to talk about, no livelihood. ;D ;D

Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1973 on: December 16, 2015, 04:17:06 PM »

And if were not for Alex the monumental waste of money spent on the Cohen Commission would perhaps be available for salmon habitat restoration work or more research on things that really matter to wild salmon, like ocean acidification, overfishing, warming Fraser River water temperatures, etc

I admire your drive Chris but you're not a pup ... it's time to put your energy into something that matters in the bigger picture.  Salmon farms are here to stay in BC and will undoubtedly expand in number when Miller-Saunders and Riddell's (along with many more researchers) work is completed.

In the meantime take some drum lessons from Eddie ;D  Would love to see someone filming you doing that ;)
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chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1974 on: December 16, 2015, 06:09:25 PM »

And if were not for Alex the monumental waste of money spent on the Cohen Commission would perhaps be available for salmon habitat restoration work or more research on things that really matter to wild salmon, like ocean acidification, overfishing, warming Fraser River water temperatures, etc

I admire your drive Chris but you're not a pup ... it's time to put your energy into something that matters in the bigger picture.  Salmon farms are here to stay in BC and will undoubtedly expand in number when Miller-Saunders and Riddell's (along with many more researchers) work is completed.

In the meantime take some drum lessons from Eddie ;D  Would love to see someone filming you doing that ;)
Wow, you know what they are going to report already, you said you were just a lowly DFO tech. ;D ;D

Some reading for you while I play badminton tonight. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/after-years-of-delay-ottawa-setting-aside-ocean-territory-for-specialprotection/article27730642/

Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1975 on: December 17, 2015, 02:28:48 PM »

Here's a good link regarding the warming Pacific Ocean and how that influences salmon populations.

http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archiv...uvenile-salmon
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chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1976 on: December 17, 2015, 03:51:56 PM »

Here's a good link regarding the warming Pacific Ocean and how that influences salmon populations.

http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archiv...uvenile-salmon
Page not found here is the correct link and direct link to the story.
http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2015/dec/osunoaa-study-warm-water-years-are-tough-juvenile-salmon

Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1977 on: December 17, 2015, 04:08:16 PM »

Thanks Chris!
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chris gadsden

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1978 on: December 18, 2015, 07:26:52 PM »

Keeping the thread alive before we have a cease fire at Christmas time.

http://www.livingoceans.org/media/news/salmon-farms-out-control

Dave

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Re: Get your facts straight?
« Reply #1979 on: December 18, 2015, 08:11:22 PM »

Will you be funding them Chris?  If so, will you get a tax deductible receipt, and .... didn't you post this link earlier?
Don't you think if escaped Atlantic's were colonizing BC rivers, the hundreds of thousands of anglers fishing these rivers would have reported them, if not to DFO who obviously can't be trusted ::) but perhaps on social media?  Seriously, if you caught an Atlantic on the Vedder, would you not let the world know?
Damn straight you would.

Happy holidays my friend but just so you know, no cease fire anytime from this front ;) As long as you post garbage, myself and a few others will pick it up and properly bag it.
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