Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: chris gadsden on August 29, 2010, 06:05:12 PM
-
I heard this morning a meeting was being held about a possible increase to 4 sockeye a day. ???
Gosh haven't people caught enough already, as well with a limit of 2 doesn't that get people off the river and leave space for others to get theirs too?
-
I can see people bring 4 generations to fish...great great grandma, grandma, dad and the kids............the mayhem continues!!!!!
-
Hopefully smarter heads prevail and it stays at 2 per day in non tidal waters. I'd like to see this fishery closed in the Fraser permanently and go back to to pre 1992, if you wanted sockeye you fished them in the salt chuck. Too much greed out there now. :(
I would agree with that, as long as it applied to commercial as well through out the river, it would end up being cheaper buying them from F/N any how. ::)
But all things in perspective, I cant see why business should take priority over any recreational fishing.
-
Hopefully smarter heads prevail and it stays at 2 per day in non tidal waters. I'd like to see this fishery closed in the Fraser permanently and go back to to pre 1992, if you wanted sockeye you fished them in the salt chuck. Too much greed out there now. :(
You may be right about the greed, however it is prevalent as well in a group that uses nets rather than long leaders...... :o
Take away a market and you take away a reason to illegally catch and sell fish. Close the sockeye fishery to the recreational fishermen and it will open up a huge market for illegally caught fish.
Remember the sockeye fishermen are there to put meat on the table. If they can't catch them they will find a place to buy them.... Watch how much greed and illegal activity happens then........ >:(
-
I heard this morning a meeting was being held about a possible increase to 4 sockeye a day. ???
Gosh haven't people caught enough already, as well with a limit of 2 doesn't that get people off the river and leave space for others to get theirs too?
I totally agree Chris. The fishery has been open for 3 weeks now. Most people should have enough fish by now. We won't be going back out for sockeye this year. You can only eat so many fish.
-
i havent been out once and plan to get out tomorrow after work...4 per day would be nice
any word on it?
-
i havent been out once and plan to get out tomorrow after work...4 per day would be nice
any word on it?
If the daily quota is to be changed, the earliest when a fishery notice would be issued is sometimes tomorrow.
-
If the daily quota is to be changed, the earliest when a fishery notice would be issued is sometimes tomorrow.
Monday is a work day for some. ;D
-
Sockeye mania that I've witnessed at the bars I've fished has so far been quite civiil and without incident. An increased to 4/day liimit would increase the crowding and waiting time for spots to fish and definitely cause tempers to flare. Besides the Thompson river Coho are due to show up any time now and Labour Day and DFO"s conservation measures will be posted with "selective angling" methods being requested and hopefully enforced. I think as long as the Commercial guys keep their prices low it should off set the need for the "Harvesters " to keep flossing socks.
I know that most of us have without any trouble / effort flossed our limit every time out with sometimes a bonus spring. Freezers are getting full and friends and relatives have already gotten a couple of socks given to them a few times over by now. Gotta ask ourselves haven't we harvested enough yet ??
-
I took my sons on an overnighter this weekend...we got 8 out of 12 fish....thats was a lot of processing time, I would really want any more than that. Not after such a long opening already.
I also heard people on the bar talk about some of ther sockey going bad...I really think 4 would be over the top right now...most people have had a long and productive fishery...we should learn when to be thankful!
-
I totally agree Chris. The fishery has been open for 3 weeks now. Most people should have enough fish by now. We won't be going back out for sockeye this year. You can only eat so many fish.
I personally have as many fish as I need..... ;D
The criteria for allocating sockeye is based on conservation, first nation allocations, then "fair" allocations to the FN, Commercial and Recreational groups. If the commercial and FN groups are allowed to catch extra fish then the other groups should as well....
I believe the concept of the government allocating a resource based on whether a particular group has had enough is something that is thankfully reserved for communist ruled countries..... :o
-
Any updates on this rumor? (at work on my phone)
-
No daily quota increase at this time.
-
A couple of points which will definitely sound like whining....first why do the commercial openings happen before a weekend and then destroy fishing on the weekend for guys who work all week and only get a chance to fish on the weekend. Second, and this next comment does not reflect on all local Chilliiwack fishers so most of you please don't take offence...while fishing on the weekend I saw the same local guy take his two fish, go home and come back to the same spot, bonk two more, leave and come back a third time just as I was leaving (for Burnaby) and continue to fish... I also met another guy who boasted that he had taken well over a hundred and fifty fish and that his best day was twenty-six in one day!! He told me that he had a great way around the system....he fished and kept everything he caught, and his buddy was a native who carried his fish out for him. I asked him how he could possible justify his actions and his answer was that he couldn't care less what other people said and that fisheries could never do anything to him because he never carried any fish out with him. I now have a grand total of six and I'm done. I guess the afore-mentioned methods are legal but really slimy.
-
I totally argee with opening up the comercial openings right before a weekend...why not let them fish mon-wed and allow 2-3 days for the river to fill up for the weekend crowd. And when there are so many commercial socks that the processors and boats are running out of ice and cant process them, whats the point?
I saw a guy walk two socks out to a car his buddy had just drove in with. They looked guilty as hell and didnt do anything while I was at my car...my guess is the guy drove down to the next bar for another two.
-
This weekend should be good as the fleet is open monday and wednesday. if thats it for this week then ok for long weekend.as for 4 per day i am in 2 minds about it. i usually go twice a week so i would only go once,but it might get too crowded if everybody is trying for 4.pros and cons.
-
While fishing yesterday, we heard a fellow below us tell someone else that they had already got their limit at Peg that morning. Unfortunately it happens. It would take a lot of DFO or COs to stop it.
-
No daily quota increase at this time.
Thank God!
-
We should have 4 when the run was way more than expected a few weeks back. Now after many trips people have already got what they need. But it will be nice to get your fish with less trips to save gas money, time and not polluting the environemt. Crowding at first, but as people cut back on trips, the bar will have less visitors later. Sockeye fishing is not pretty, crowd, snags, and a bit boring (too easy unless commercial openings). It is purely a meat fishery. I rather go less trips to catch my fish. Bring on the coho.
-
This is why resource is not managed by users, but rather by trained individuals who are required to follow policies.
-
This is why resource is not managed by users, but rather by trained individuals who are required to follow policies.
Without an annual limit, I agree.. keep the limit at 2/day. With an annual limit, I tend to agree with the previous post. I can't for the life of me figure out why an annual limit is not in place. I can think of plenty of uses for an annual limit and catch recording, I cannot think of one good reason not to have one in place.
-
Mainly because you have no idea. If there are too many fish in the spawning channel there will be less fry............ Pretty simple if you ask me....
-
Mainly because you have no idea. If there are too many fish in the spawning channel there will be less fry............ Pretty simple if you ask me....
Care to elaborate? I think predicting salmon returns, escapement, etc is far from simple.
-
Mainly because you have no idea. If there are too many fish in the spawning channel there will be less fry............ Pretty simple if you ask me....
Ummmm...and you are?
A fishery biologist with a Doctorate in salmon reproduction in their natural habitat, at least.
Only someone with such credentials would have the collateral to make such an arrogant statement.
Unless you have such a degree, start by educating yourself from some decent articles found in the media:
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/30082010/74/bc-unfounded-fears-sockeye-threaten-future-returns.html
-
The recreational sector has a coast wide 5% allocation quota. To raise the daily quota of 2 fish to 4 in a ongoing fishery, many items have to be considered. The changes are not to be made to accommodate your convenience, but rather how it would affect the resource and all users of the resource.
-
1.
Each river has a carrying capacity to produce fish and it is true that if you send more fish to spawn it doesn't mean that you will get more fry.
The fish will dig out the nests of earlier fish and ruin their eggs. This is especially true for river fish, which sockeye are not. They spawn in lakes.
But it doesn't mean if you let more fish spawn you will see less fry.
Of course out commercial fishery friends and our tackle shop friends have taken that up a few notches and say that it's better to catch more fish so that the ones left can product more.
I've heard this and this is a bunch of crock.
This is all about money.
2.
I have always wondered how the plague of flossing has spread so fast and wide in such a short time.
I don't do it, none of the guys I know do it, none of the guys I fish with do it. Nor would we recommend it.
So how does it work.
Well, all of us visit our good friends at out local tackle shops.
So I had my answer while a visited my local tackle shop last week and asked for a recommendation on what to use for sockeye.
3.
So yes, foul hooking is legal.
During sockeye season.
Those fisheries and law enforcement guys that put it in the regulations, what do they know..
And yes support your local tackle and be selective.
-
1.
Each river has a carrying capacity to produce fish and it is true that if you send more fish to spawn it doesn't mean that you will get more fry.
The fish will dig out the nests of earlier fish and ruin their eggs. This is especially true for river fish, which sockeye are not. They spawn in lakes.
Do the Adams river sockeye spawn in a lake then ?????? I have my doubts about that statement, as far as I know sockeye usually spawn in rivers and streams that are linked to a lake.
-
Sockeye salmon do not spawn in lakes, they spawn in streams that are connected to lakes. Some populations migrate into the ocean immediately once hatched, but most populations retreat into lakes where they would spend one or two years to feed and rear.
The problem with overspawning isn't really the fear of late arrivals damaging early arrivals' redds as interest groups are lobbying (btw, why are users rather than managers and biologists discussing this in the media?). Redd damaging is what you would expect to see when everyone mate at the same time. ::) Whether the system is full or over in capacity, the amount of hatched fry would not differ that much.
The problem is the amount of food available for these fry. If productivity does not match demand, then surviving fry will not be as big, therefore mortality may increase when outmigration begins. That being said, should one take the excessive amount of carcasses into account when determining productivity? Wouldn't productivity be correlated to the number of returning spawners therefore food for fry should be extremely abundant when the system receives surplus broods?
This is just one of many factors that determine success in spawners, eggs, fry and smolts. The fish-hungry public may be easily convinced by one simple statement "want more fish, catch more fish", but ultimately trained individuals who study the species closely without any financial interests are the only ones who should be determining what is best for our fish.
-
I can't for the life of me figure out why an annual limit is not in place. I can think of plenty of uses for an annual limit and catch recording, I cannot think of one good reason not to have one in place.
This is something I have really been wondering lately too. There is annual limits for chinook and steelhead, why not add an annual limit for coho and sockeye as well?
I can think of reasons for it but not against it.
-
This is something I have really been wondering lately too. There is annual limits for chinook and steelhead, why not add an annual limit for coho and sockeye as well?
I can think of reasons for it but not against it.
What would be the point of putting an annual limit in place when there is no manpower available to enforce it?
-
Plus, if you fill your license, the only thing stopping you from printing a nice empty one is the honour system.
Ask Skytrain how THAT's working :(
-
So because we don't have enough enforcement we shouldn't put an annual limit on the fish?
That's a very poor argument. We don't have enough enforcement for daily limits or possession limits either (I have not been checked in over 100 days on the water these past few years) yet nobody would suggest getting rid of them, because they serve a purpose... to give those that follow the laws a guideline and to prevent against "legal" abuses.
There are plenty of honest fishermen (oxymoron, I know) out there who would follow the law to the letter regarding annual limits and recording fish.
-
I heard this morning a meeting was being held about a possible increase to 4 sockeye a day.
Gosh haven't people caught enough already, as well with a limit of 2 doesn't that get people off the river and leave space for others to get theirs too?
For me the Sockeye fishing is a very long drive. At four, one successful trip would be sufficient, saves fuel and is greener. I also have a number of friends who have never tried this fishing and I won't be able to get them out until the end and only once. I would certainly like to see it go to four.
-
Sockeye salmon do not spawn in lakes, they spawn in streams that are connected to lakes.
Rod... you should know that sockeye do spawn in lakes, unless you just simply left out the MOST part of that statement.
There are creek/river spawners AND lake shore spawners. Chilliwack lake has both types of fish, and almost all Cultus Lake fish are shore spawners.
-
I stand corrected Dan. I was generalizing it a bit under the assumption that we are focusing the discussion on mid and upper Fraser populations.
-
when the sockey returned 50-75 years ago did we need to harvest a large % of the fish ? I keep hearing there are too many sockeye spawning but what happened way back when ?
-
This is why resource is not managed by users, but rather by trained individuals who are required to follow policies.
Well said!
-
So because we don't have enough enforcement we shouldn't put an annual limit on the fish?
Yup!
Laws have no meaning unless they are enforced.
-
does mother nature really need our help in managing the fish stock???? too much or not enough ? I was raised to believe that mother nature needs to be obeyed, not ordered. But, of course, preservation efforts are needed.
it seems that raising the daily amount sure can be more convenient for the occasional fisherman, but , it could be an over abundance for the daily returning visitors. I have seen in the past weeks the same people fishing over and over again on a daily basis. yes, including myself. two is plenty, but if mother nature needs to be helped, then, how do you establish 2, 4 or even whatever. maybe they should regulate the cooler size ??
-
1.
Each river has a carrying capacity to produce fish and it is true that if you send more fish to spawn it doesn't mean that you will get more fry.
The fish will dig out the nests of earlier fish and ruin their eggs. This is especially true for river fish, which sockeye are not. They spawn in lakes.
Do the Adams river sockeye spawn in a lake then ?????? I have my doubts about that statement, as far as I know sockeye usually spawn in rivers and streams that are linked to a lake.
Sorry correct, they actually spawn in both lakes and rivers but spend most of their time in lakes as fry as far as I know.
Regardless, the same logic applies. We shouldn't not be catching more fish to "make room".
My big dissapointment here was to personally hear guys at tackle shops recommending that I floss the sockeye.
That really pissed me off.
-
Well said!
It is managed well by the biologists (as best as they possibly can) but it's not enforced by the police, COs etc.
-
This is just one of many factors that determine success in spawners, eggs, fry and smolts. The fish-hungry public may be easily convinced by one simple statement "want more fish, catch more fish", but ultimately trained individuals who study the species closely without any financial interests are the only ones who should be determining what is best for our fish.
Truth, a rare thing indeed, we are so used of listening to the opinion of the lobbyist and special interest groups, its refreshing to read a statement like this. Thanks Rod
-
Two is nice, four is better... Eat lots of fish and don't get many opportunities to get down. A two day limit would be nice.... Feed me! Wonder how many of these fish are never going to get the chance to spawn due to overcrowding???
-
hello the limit states limit of 4 sockeyes a day but what area is harrison/agassiz?
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/tidal-maree/fraser-eng.htm
-
That limit is only for TIDAL waters...
Harrison / Agassiz is well outside that boundary.
-
hello the limit states limit of 4 sockeyes a day but what area is harrison/agassiz?
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/tidal-maree/fraser-eng.htm
i think that is for tidal waters up until mission bridge; but a bit confusing nonetheless.
all i know is that limit of 4 has been around since aug 5; and if it was indeed everywhere - i think we would not have this topic lol
-
Ironic that unless you are netting, catching Sockeye the tidal portion of the fraser is next to impossible. Living just up the road from the Fraser out of Fort Langley, I spent many, many hours, trying many different methods to get them to bite, but to no avail, and no short floating krill didnt work either.
-
Yup!
Laws have no meaning unless they are enforced.
I'm not sure where to start as you clearly do not understand the purpose that law serves in modern society.
Laws are made not only to enable punishment of those that break the laws but to set guidelines for those that choose to follow them. Laws, regardless of enforcement, have always had and will always have meaning.
But, assuming you are right and unenforced laws serve no purpose (which you aren't), what's the purpose for a daily limit or possession limit then since they are rarely enforced??? We don't have enough enforcement for them so your logic would have us abolishing these as well. The only argument you could possibly counter this with is that we DO have enough enforcement on daily/possession limits... yet DFO is horribly understaffed in this regard, and the number of CO's out there is pathetic. So... let's see you wiggle out of this one.
-
Marmot, stop arguing with logic, it's pointless. ;D ;D ;D
Back to the topic, it is highly unlikely that the daily quota in the non-tidal and tributaries be raised to four fish, however there is a possibility that the fishery may be extended after the long weekend. A fishery notice will most likely be available later on this week regarding what will happen in the Fraser River after this weekend.
-
there is a possibility that the fishery may be extended after the long weekend. A fishery notice will most likely be available later on this week regarding what will happen in the Fraser River after this weekend.
Coho be damned? I love to get my sockeye and was unhappy that I am going out of town this upcoming weekeend but man... they can't let pressure overwhelm the conservation of endagered species :(
-
Marmot, stop arguing with logic, it's pointless. ;D ;D ;D
I never learn ;D
-
based on the current opening what time should sockeye be closed if no further changes occur?
thanks.
-
September 7th.
-
September 7th.
Coho running late?
-
Interior coho management measures typically kick in right after September long weekend and these measures usually include total salmon fishing closure. There are exceptions sometimes, like selective fishing for pink salmon during pink salmon years with a bait ban implemented. This arrangement has demonstrated that the rec group can keep the coho mortality below 3%, which is the acceptable level.
Most angling reps have asked Fisheries and Oceans Canada to consider extending the sockeye salmon opening with the same arrangement that we have for pink salmon years. The reasoning being the sockeye run continues to be strong, angling pressure would reduce significantly after the long weekend and the coho salmon run would not be impacted with the bait ban and no retention of coho salmon.
I don't entirely have an issue with having the fishery extended, it'd take quite a bit of pressure off other systems such as the Vedder for awhile and provide additional fishing opportunities for those who haven't had a chance to get out. That being said, I'd like to see an emphasis on fish identification and proper fish handling during the extension if there is one. This is what I wrote when asked for feedbacks.
-
Interior coho management measures typically kick in right after September long weekend and these measures usually include total salmon fishing closure. There are exceptions sometimes, like selective fishing for pink salmon during pink salmon years with a bait ban implemented. This arrangement has demonstrated that the rec group can keep the coho mortality below 3%, which is the acceptable level.
Most angling reps have asked Fisheries and Oceans Canada to consider extending the sockeye salmon opening with the same arrangement that we have for pink salmon years.
This seems like a tricky extrapolation. Pink fishing (and handling) seems to me a little different than the methods and handling we're seeing employed currently. Too many people are ID'ing fish after they have been dragged up on the shore... might make for some different numbers?
-
September 7th.
If it closes on the 7th will it be close the night of the 6th or the night of the 7th? Curious because I am planning a trip first light on the 7th.
-
Interior coho management measures typically kick in right after September long weekend and these measures usually include total salmon fishing closure. There are exceptions sometimes, like selective fishing for pink salmon during pink salmon years with a bait ban implemented. This arrangement has demonstrated that the rec group can keep the coho mortality below 3%, which is the acceptable level.
Most angling reps have asked Fisheries and Oceans Canada to consider extending the sockeye salmon opening with the same arrangement that we have for pink salmon years. The reasoning being the sockeye run continues to be strong, angling pressure would reduce significantly after the long weekend and the coho salmon run would not be impacted with the bait ban and no retention of coho salmon.
I don't entirely have an issue with having the fishery extended, it'd take quite a bit of pressure off other systems such as the Vedder for awhile and provide additional fishing opportunities for those who haven't had a chance to get out. That being said, I'd like to see an emphasis on fish identification and proper fish handling during the extension if there is one. This is what I wrote when asked for feedbacks.
Most of those people out there at places such as Peg Leg have no idea the difference between a coho and a sockeye ,so yes that would be a good idea but im not sure how it could be implemented.
-
Damn cohos ;D
-
damn sockeyes!!
-
I wonder how many steelhead have been killed by people saying that they are springs?
-
are you serious ?? there is a huge difference between a trout and salmon??? sure, we were calling them small trout as a joke on the river the other day, but, surely, no one heard us. Sockeye vs. steel head. Well, actually, sorry, I never did catch a true steel head yet. Steel head . one word or two words???
-
Saw about a 17lb steely dragged up on the beach at seabrid the guy released it after getting a earfull from numerous people.. i wonder how many Thompson steelys getting done in during the commercial fisheries....
-
end the gong show soon got lots o socks and mabey fisheries could pay a little more attention to the native and net fisheries . ???