Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: chris gadsden on February 08, 2013, 06:17:00 PM
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http://www.ipolitics.ca/2013/02/07/new-policy-gives-government-power-to-muzzle-dfo-scientists/
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Ha! He'll never muzzle DFO scientists as long as FWR is around! ;)
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Harper vs. the World Wide Web
Sort of like how governments are winning the war on drugs....lol.
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Well we wanted a majority government and that's what we got. It can do whatever it wants.
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--Presumably some of these scientist belong to professional organizations such as RPBio or PEng etc... why are these groups not in court over this type of censure?
--Another reason to have whistle blower legislation.
--Provincial Government is a little less blatant... they have your manager say no then if you do speak you are charged with insubordination.. the manager then states they have no problem with the information that was censured just that the individual didn't follow proper procedure to get it published.
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--Presumably some of these scientist belong to professional organizations such as RPBio or PEng etc... why are these groups not in court over this type of censure?
Most professional organizations are Provincially regulated and there is no requirement for Federal professionals to belong to or be regulated by the Provincial governing bodies; it's a loophole that Federal politicians refuse to close for exactly the reason you state and that irks Federal gov't professionals to no end.
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--Yes and in BC there is an exemption for Scientists doing pure research.... they do not have to belong to the professional organization unless they are doing practicle research or giving professional advice.
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Some of the adviser's have worked for both the Federal Conservatives and the BC Provincial Liberal party. It shows in their control the message philosophy. Gag orders, limit debate remove those pesky regulations because they are inconvenient to business Their environmental philosophy is to let industry self police. Both parties have tried to remove themselves of the inconvenience of an Auditor who oversees government expenditures. BC voted to let theirs go and tried to get him back when it looked bad in the press. Harper wants to change the rules to what theirs can review after the F35 fiasco. More money wasted on advertising than ever before despite large deficits.
Better watch what we post next step is to lock up dissenters. Forced labour at fish farms.
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..... Forced labour at fish farms.
That's scary.
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That's scary.
C'mon af... gotta think you could chuck those pellets clear across the net pen ... hey, you might even learn to enjoy really working with fish on a daily basis ;D
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C'mon af... gotta think you could chuck those pellets clear across the net pen ... hey, you might even learn to enjoy really working with fish on a daily basis ;D
It's my conscience I'd have trouble dealing with...... Probably is the same reason I never became a drug dealer. :D
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Now the Harper gov't is trying to muzzle US scientists as well.....starts about 1:40 minutes into the recording. The Senior DFO bureaucrat interviewed at the end doesn't do a very convincing song and dance.
http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/popupaudio.html?clipIds=2335251003,2335251292,2335251886 (http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/popupaudio.html?clipIds=2335251003,2335251292,2335251886)
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Gives a lot of support to the "conspiracy theory" that the feedlot damage to our wild salmon is being muzzled by DFO. Also supports why DFO "finds no evidence" of ISAV and other lethal viruses in our salmon, even though Morton and other scientists outside of DFO are finding evidence...
Scary stuff.
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I'd like to take Harper down with a big plate of feedlot salmon. ;D
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Gives a lot of support to the "conspiracy theory" that the feedlot damage to our wild salmon is being muzzled by DFO. Also supports why DFO "finds no evidence" of ISAV and other lethal viruses in our salmon, even though Morton and other scientists outside of DFO are finding evidence...
Scary stuff.
Not sure if the conspiracy theory holds much water with ISA or ISAV because many of the major players (governmental and non-governmental scientists) in this provided testimony at a Cohen Commission judicial inquiry. These experts were Dr. Kilbenge, Dr. Nylund, Ms. Gagne, and Dr. Miller.
As described in the previous chapter, I find that the evidence does not allow me to conclude whether the infectious salmon anemia virus (ISAv) or an ISAv-like virus currently exists in Fraser River sockeye. I also do not have sufficient evidence to determine whether such an ISAv or ISAv-like virus, if present, is endemic to BC waters or has been introduced. I accept the opinion of several experts appearing before me that, at present, there has been no evidence that salmon recently tested for ISAv (the virus) suffered from ISA (the disease) as it is now understood. That is not to say that salmon testing positive for ISAv or ISAv-like genetic sequences may not be exhibiting a host response of some form. – Justice Bruce Cohen; Cohen Commission of Inquiry into the Decline of Sockeye Salmon in the Fraser River; Vol. 2, Chapter 5: Findings, Page 111.
Although they did not agree on whether ISAv or an ISAv-like virus was present, all agreed that more research was necessary and that, whether ISAv is present or not, there had been no confirmation of ISA in any of the Pacific salmon tested by the time of the December hearings. As stated in Volume 1, Chapter 9, Fish health management, I find that the evidence does not allow me to conclude whether ISAv or an ISAv-like virus currently exists in Fraser River sockeye. However, I accept the opinion of the expert panel (Dr. Kibenge, Dr. Nylund, Ms. Gagné, and Dr. Miller) that, as of December 2011, there was no evidence that fish tested for ISAv (the virus) suffered from ISA (the disease) as that disease was then understood. – Justice Bruce Cohen; Cohen Commission of Inquiry into the Decline of Sockeye Salmon in the Fraser River; Vol 2, Chapter 4: Decline Related Evidence, Page 60.
Secondly, because ISA is known for causing significant loss to fish farm operations (i.e. Chile) one would expect million of dead Atlantic Salmon on BC fish farms if ISA was present. It is not something that can be easily hidden. As Dr. Marty points out, it is not realistic that an infectious strain of ISAv would kill only 2% (55/2,709) of the dead fish sampled between 2006 and 2010. Thirdly, ISA (like IHN) is a reportable disease which means that fish farms are legally obligated to report it if present. For instance, when IHN was discovered at Mainstream’s Clayoquot area farms in May 2012 and Tofino area fish farms in July 2012 they were both reported to the CFIA like they should have. How was this hidden? Similarly, when ISA was discovered back east it was reported to the CFIA who in turn had the results confirmed by DFO’s Moncton lab and reported to the OIE (check their website). How was this hidden? Now if ISA was found and BC fish farms failed to report it or erased records of it then I might see your point. What Morton did was misinterpret what other scientists at the inquiry were saying on the subject as well as what Justice Cohen says in his Final Report. They are saying one thing while she is saying another. That is the only real conspiracy here.
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Now the Harper gov't is trying to muzzle US scientists as well.....starts about 1:40 minutes into the recording. The Senior DFO bureaucrat interviewed at the end doesn't do a very convincing song and dance.
http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/popupaudio.html?clipIds=2335251003,2335251292,2335251886 (http://www.cbc.ca/asithappens/popupaudio.html?clipIds=2335251003,2335251292,2335251886)
First, these policies stem from the Privy Council. Unfortunately, it is left up to departmental bureaucrats to try to justify it and as usual they (as well as the politicians they report to) fail miserably at convincing the general public. The way the US handles this is much better. I agree with the scientist interviewed by the CBC that this would be a good compromise. However, with pipelines being the flavour of the day it might be better to keep these tight controls in place...just to be on the safe side...lol (sarcasm).
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The Cohen commission was introduced years ago. The government scientists had no option not to testify. One has to wonder if their would have been a inquiry at all with the direction the Harper government is now heading.
Confidentiality agreements reviewed by government bureaucrats. Why do they now need this? If you don't like the findings you can ramp up the media spin in advance if you can not bury it entirely. Their responce to any negative publicity is to change policy and remove those in the civil servants that protect us. Big oil has Harper in their pocket. Environmental concerns get in the way of their obscene profits. It is sad that all parties are influenced by special interest groups.
Canada had no problems with scientists in the past. Why change now? Dissenting opinions should be welcomed and debated. That is what science does. Not every one agrees or is correct. What we think is right now often proves incorrect.
If politicans like Harper had their way we would still think the world was flat.
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http://harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/harpers-muzzling-of-officials-insults-canadians-and-conservative-principles/
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http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/2013/02/20/Muzzling_scientists/
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I hope this does not interfer with the recently announced study that Kristy Miller was given the go ahead on.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/03/15/muzzling_of_canadian_government_scientists_sent_before_information_commissioner_suzanne_legault.html
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I hope this does not interfer with the recently announced study that Kristy Miller was given the go ahead on.
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2013/03/15/muzzling_of_canadian_government_scientists_sent_before_information_commissioner_suzanne_legault.html
The involvement of Riddell and the PSF gives me hope that this study will be relatively unencumbered by our Dear Leader's PCO. PSF has major financial chops, so at this point I'm excited to see what comes of this. I just hope people of all leanings are able to take the results at face value, even if they don't line up with their previous beliefs/expectations.
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The involvement of Riddell and the PSF gives me hope that this study will be relatively unencumbered by our Dear Leader's PCO. PSF has major financial chops, so at this point I'm excited to see what comes of this. I just hope people of all leanings are able to take the results at face value, even if they don't line up with their previous beliefs/expectations.
I agree and hope you are right but knowing what has happened on other fronts one has to be a bit wary.Of course it is the work of Alex that has helped force the governments hand to get this scientific study going as the Fed's and FOC were feeling the heat on this controversy
Also I hope it does not take years to get the results and I have been told by a forum member that Riddell is a man of high principles and ability.
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Also I hope it does not take years to get the results and I have been told by a forum member that Riddell is a man of high principles and ability.
Riddell left DFO from his position of Section Head of Salmon and Freshwater Ecosystems so that he could more effectively pursue some of the projects and work that I think he felt wasn't possible from within the dept. This would be a perfect example, and I expect a fair and balanced approach.