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[marmot]

That's the problem though, stillaqua, it is not being managed at all, it's just given an opening, nothing more.  It is managed just as any sport fishery is... Basically hands off without any harvest specific regs... THAT is what i have a problem with.

[G.A.]

sorry i guess it sounded like that way to..no way i meant the guys doing the work. i mean the government end of it. i saw a huge waste of money while i was there. of course doing the work was hard. and better clear up the fisheries thing to.,.. all i did was hatchery work, breeding feeding and trying to revive Alouette Lake.

[zabber]

3. I've seen plenty of fish really "fouled" but I have only fouled one or two in the few years I've been flossing fish.   You can criticize me for still fishing even though I know there's a chance of fouling them all you want but the fact is that I've fouled just as many fishing spoons in the same timeframe.  It happens... heck, I foul cutties on fast stripped fry patterns sometimes...  an outer mouth hooked sockeye fights the same as an inner mouth hooked sockeye, plain and simple.  As you don't "do it" you wouldn't know that the vast majority of the time you are not *** hooking or eye hooking fish anyways.

Just FYI, as D.A. pointed out, a fish hooked by the "outside" of the mouth is a foul hooked fish. Technically, that's a fish hooked by the face, not by the mouth; the mouth being the cavity in the face

[alwaysfishn]

Just FYI, as D.A. pointed out, a fish hooked by the "outside" of the mouth is a foul hooked fish. Technically, that's a fish hooked by the face, not by the mouth; the mouth being the cavity in the face

We know a fish has a mouth, I'm just not convinced a fish has a face.

By definition a face is what identifies one human from another. A face has muscles which allows it to make various expressions which reflect an emotion the human is feeling.

"Technically" a fish does not have a face as it has no muscles in what might be a face area, only a mouth, eyes and head....... all fish of a species look identical.    

As such, a fish "hooked in the mouth" would be a fish hooked anywhere other than in the head, eyes or the body....

You're probably thinking I'm making this stuff up......    Google it.  

[StillAqua]

"Technically" a fish does not have a face as it has no muscles in what might be a face area, only a mouth, eyes and head....... all fish of a species look identical.    

That's what they think about us too.....we all look alike.

[alwaysfishn]

That's what they think about us too.....we all look alike.

The way we pull them out of that water by their faces   mouth's..... they probably think we're all terrorists.  

[zabber]

  Okay, okay. You can replace face with head in my post to make it more technically correct :p

Point stands: the "outside of the mouth" is the head. The mouth is the cavity in the head where the tounge, teeth, etc. are located. I'd draw a diagram, but I'd like to think this is easy enough to understand

[marmot]

Just FYI, as D.A. pointed out, a fish hooked by the "outside" of the mouth is a foul hooked fish. Technically, that's a fish hooked by the face, not by the mouth; the mouth being the cavity in the face

If that was a foul hooked fish, DFO would be issuing tickets.  DFO defines what foul hooking is.  By their inaction they have allowed an outer mouth hooking as legal.  It is moot to my line of thinking anyways, for this fishery at least.  I believe that a fouled sockeye...any fouled sockeye, should be kept and counted towards your retention, and that after your limit you HAVE to stop fishing.

[alwaysfishn]

If that was a foul hooked fish, DFO would be issuing tickets.  DFO defines what foul hooking is.  By their inaction they have allowed an outer mouth hooking as legal.  It is moot to my line of thinking anyways, for this fishery at least.  I believe that a fouled sockeye...any fouled sockeye, should be kept and counted towards your retention, and that after your limit you HAVE to stop fishing.

Agreed!

[zabber]

DFO defines what foul hooking is.  By their inaction they have allowed an outer mouth hooking as legal. 

Sure, I was just pointing out that, according to the regs, it's a fouled fish. The fact that they ignore what's going on doesn't change things. I guess it's kinda like the speeding thing: they're not gonna pull you over for 20 over on the highway, but it doesn't mean you aren't breaking the rules 

for this fishery at least.  I believe that a fouled sockeye...any fouled sockeye, should be kept and counted towards your retention, and that after your limit you HAVE to stop fishing.

If it was proven the fish really don't bite, and the regs were changed, then I'd have to agree. Until then I'll be releasing all fouled sox; gives me more time to hook into a spring

Cheers

[alwaysfishn]

If it was proven the fish really don't bite, and the regs were changed, then I'd have to agree. Until then I'll be releasing all fouled sox; gives me more time to hook into a spring

Cheers

I think you may have missed the point.....   It's is a meat fishery and the sockeye don't bite a flossing setup. Most foul hooked fish take a lot longer to pull in and by fighting the fish that long and then releasing it you have tapped some of it's energy supply which will possibly affect it's survival.

I also agree that once you have caught 2 sockeye whether they are fair or foul hooked, you should either have to leave the river or at least switch to a bar fishing setup if you still want to catch a spring. If these rules were in place they would probably better define the fishery as a meat harvest as opposed to a sport.

[zabber]

If these rules were in place they would probably better define the fishery as a meat harvest as opposed to a sport.

No doubt about it. Until then, it's just a regular fishery IMO. I've heard that sox can be taken on the bar rig so I just assume that the ones that I hook in the mouth bit. Same with the springs. Head-hooked fish are released, as per the regs

What can I say: rules are rules and I'm no Dr. Kavorkian

[doja]

Okay, okay. You can replace face with head in my post to make it more technically correct :p

Point stands: the "outside of the mouth" is the head. The mouth is the cavity in the head where the tounge, teeth, etc. are located. I'd draw a diagram, but I'd like to think this is easy enough to understand

The outside of the mouth is still the mouth....

Look here,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouth    You will see the lips count which are not in the mouth....


From DFO,

FOUL HOOKING (SNAGGING) - a term used to describe hooking a fish in any part of its body other than the mouth. It is illegal to willfully foul hook a fish other than herring, northern anchovy, Pacific sand lance and squid.

[Gooey]

If you see a guy rip a hook through a schol of fish and hit one in the back or the belly, you think all sorts of derogatory things because the guy is SNAGGING.  If he hooked the fish in the mouth with a yank, its still a snagged fish as the fish didn't strike the hook.

The only difference between a blatant snagger and a flosser is that instead of using a good old yank to set the hook, flossers use the river's current to driver and sweep the hook into the side of the fish.  We all agree that a flossed fish didnt bite so the only difference in a snagger and a flossers if we want to be totally technical, it the force use to drive the hook into the fish.

Either way, the fish did not bite and that for me is what truly makes flossing so lame. 

I wish our regs would be like the paficic NW. either WA or OR has verbiage to the effect to avoid snagging the fisher should elicit a strike and they also say a fish mush be hooked INSIDE the mouth.

so until the regs and perceptions change and we focusses on how the hook got there ie a strike vs a snagged fished, you will have pathetic comments like

The outside of the mouth is still the mouth....

[BwiBwi]

I wish our regs would be like the paficic NW. either WA or OR has verbiage to the effect to avoid snagging the fisher should elicit a strike and they also say a fish mush be hooked INSIDE the mouth.

so until the regs and perceptions change and we focusses on how the hook got there ie a strike vs a snagged fished, you will have pathetic comments like

This is direct from WA fishing regulation:

Snagging Attempting to take fish with a hook
and line in such a way that the fish does not
voluntarily take the hook(s) in its mouth. In
freshwater, it is illegal to possess any fish
hooked anywhere other than inside the mouth or
on the head.

You missed the last part Gooey