Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fishing-related Issues & News => Topic started by: Dave on March 11, 2010, 02:19:49 PM
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There’s been some discussion recently in other posts regarding adult steelhead populations in the Chilliwack-Vedder. As there is little enumeration data, we are left with best guess’ and speculation …. But that’s not all bad as it gets us talking.
One writer suggested a total run of 10,000 fish, another thought that number too high. What do other FWR readers think – what is your “best guess” number of returning adults, for the past few years, to this river?
For obvious reasons this needs to be in two categories; returning wild steelhead and returning hatchery steelhead
Let me start – my guess is, on average, 250-500 wild steelhead; 1500-3000 hatchery.
Remember, I’m only asking for opinions and the above is mine.
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3000 hatch 2000 wild
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3010 hatch 2010 wild and I raise the anti.
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3200 hatch . 2000 wild
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Hatchery- 2500-3000 Based on # released and 2.5 % survival rates. Coho survival rates have been around 2% so one can assume that the larger STHD smolts
would survive at a higher rate.
Wild - 700 - 800
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Thanks for your input Buck. I used pretty much the same numbers as you to come up with my guestimate of the hatchery component, only I added a larger predator/residualization variable.
C’mon folks…. there are no right or wrong answers to this question; it’s basically your gut feeling.
At the time of this posting, about 170 people have read this but only 5 have responded …. Why is that? If you didn’t fish and care about steelhead on this system, you wouldn’t be reading this stuff ….
Let’s hear from you anglers: how many steelhead do you think return to the Chilliwack-Vedder?
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3000 I would like to know how many actualy make it up to the hatchery
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Dave, I hate guesses, especially uneducated ones, so I'm not gonna make any. ;D
What I am very interested in knowing is, from you, Buck and others who have had related field work on the Chilliwack-Vedder watershed, any guesses on the current carrying capacity of the steelhead population.
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Hmmmm.
I really don't know what to think.
If you think about it... a crappy fisherman like me can fill out around 3 Steelhead on my tag without even being home.
Now you factor in quite a few locals that fish it every day (like I use to) and you have people filling out 10 a year (easily).
How many people fish that river every day? How many fish are weighed in at Fred's everyday (probably 1 out of 3 weighed in I would guess).
I would say that there are around 3500/4000 hatches in the river.
Wilds I would go ~3000... just too many of them caught all the time to only be less than 1000 (and you very rarely see pics of the same fish). I'm also throwing in the fact that there is normally a 50/50 split in wilds to hatches caught (for me anyways) and if not a 50/50 split I seem to get almost all wilds (maybe they are more aggressive?).
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I agree with Buck.This year maybe a tad lower.
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Good question Rod. My "guess" is the carrying capacity for wild steelhead is considerably more is than is present now (I know, that's a copout answer!). IMO, the lack of quality spawning gravel in the upper river is the greatest limiting factor for wild production. Really, most of the optimum gravel is in the habitat restoration channels and these are often not accessible to spawning steelhead ie a beaver dam blocked access to 75% of Centennial Channel last year; this channel has the best gravel in the upper river.
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Wild Steelhead = not enough
Hatchery Steelhead = far too many
;) That's my guess...
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My guestimate...wild steelhead (this years returning adults) probably 500-700. Even if there is twice as many as that I think the non-regulated, free-for-all, harvest fishery has to be better managed. The Thompson River was closed when such numbers of wild fish were realized.
The hatchery fish numbers are probably more static. The hatchery's goal of 35 mating pairs of wild fish is pretty constant, so the returning mature fish numbers are probably quite similar from year to year. Ocean survival & in-river angling conditions will likely make catch rates different from year to year. This season, except for some early high water, has been extremely fishable & the weather has been pretty mild. Easy fishin' & mediocre to good catchin'. My guestimate is less than 1000 hatchery fish.
I wonder how many lake-run char & sea-run char are in the river too??
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I wonder how many lake-run char & sea-run char are in the river too??
Good question JS. I have kept an angling diary for about 20 years; in the past couple of years and espcially this season I have seen and caught more char in the Chilliwack. But these numbers are far less than back in the 60's and 70's, the good old days. Lake run char .... do you mean fish that drop out of Cultus, Foley and Chilliwack Lakes??
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Good to see that you are seeing more Char this year....but has your angling effort increased over the last couple of years?
Another question to the mix
How many Adipose Clipped Steelhead do you think make it past all the anglers and sucessfuly spawn?
and what percentage of unclipped Adult Steelhead had a adipose clipped parent?
Is that a bad thing? In an Urban setting, personally I don't think so, as the brood are all unclipped and from the system, but it must have had an affect.
Do you think there were distinct runs of steelhead in the Chilliwack/Vedder? and now one hodge-podge mix...a true Canadian eh...a bit of this and a bit of that!
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Good to see that you are seeing more Char this year....but has your angling effort increased over the last couple of years?
Good point and could very well be why.
Another question to the mix
How many Adipose Clipped Steelhead do you think make it past all the anglers and sucessfuly spawn?
Don't know but certainly some escape to the closed area and others simply are not caught. In past years the hatchery overflow had up to 100 clipped, holding steelhead; perhaps Buck could add some info here[/i]and what percentage of unclipped Adult Steelhead had a adipose clipped parent?
Again, who knows but we do know hatchery steelhead do spawn in the Chilliwack
Is that a bad thing? In an Urban setting, personally I don't think so, as the brood are all unclipped and from the system, but it must have had an affect.
I agree, hatchery steelhead spawning is not a bad thing
Do you think there were distinct runs of steelhead in the Chilliwack/Vedder? and now one hodge-podge mix...a true Canadian eh...a bit of this and a bit of that!
Here is the one question you ask I can answer! Yes, the Chilliwack did have distinct spawning populations - Post, Sweltzer, Liumchen, Ryder, Foley, Slesse all had their own populations. I can remember seeing 20-30 steelhead in Sweltzer Creek. Now seeing a steelhead in any of the above mentioned tribs would be a rarity
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mykisscrazy..
I have drastically decreased my angling efforts this last year (university will kill that I guess).
I have noticed WAY more resident rainbows and dollies than I have ever seen in the Chilliwack-Vedder. Already caught, and seen more caught then I caught all last year in about 1/4 of the fishing trips made, and probably 1/10 of the hours put in. Also saw a lot more bulls around this summer as well (way too many were killed by the uninformed bonking smolt fisherman).
In one of my classes here we have learned periphyton growth helps make a bigger population of insect food, therefore more fish food. In the last couple of years I have noticed that the amount of the periphyton (brown sludge on the rocks) has increased, so therefore maybe more steelies are hanging back and becoming resident rainbows. Could this also bring more of the big char down for feeding as well possibly, on both the bugs and maybe the smaller resident bows?
One more question for you Dave... Have you ever seen or heard of a summer steelhead in the Vedder? Did it ever have a distinct run of summer steelies at any point in time? The reason I ask is because a number of my friends believe it did, and one of them has actually landed one. I am curious because I too landed one (well fairly sure it was one could have possibly been a resident bow) at Peach last year one evening just before dark on a dry fly (little undergunned on the 4 wt lol). Jumped a hell of a lot of times and when I got it in ended up being a 6 pnd wild doe with all the "summer run" looks to it. Possibly a stray? Or did I just get REALLY lucky and land one of the few native ones around? One of my friends also picked up one of these "summer run" looking fish up behind the red springs last year in the upper, beautiful chromer with red cheeks and probably around 4-5 pounds as well.
Also when was the last time you checked Sweltzer? I took a look in there a few years back and saw 2 heading up it just at the big rock wall there...Maybe they are just heading farther up the creek to spawn than usual, or wait until later in the year since it always seems to be so low for a bump in the water. Also saw one in Tamihi creek last year that was def around spawning mode.
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Great observations ED. The increased periphyton could be the result of the nutrient additions to the Chilliwack system over the past few years, thanks to the BCCF and CRAC , as well as the carcasses of spawning chum, pink and chinooks. Low water flows and sunlight would also increase this growth.
Summer steelhead .... I know some have been caught in the Chilliwack but we always suspected they were stray Coquihalla or Silver Creek fish. I don't know of any studies, or anything anecdotal, that indicate a population of summer steelhead in the Chilliwack.
Sweltzer Creek ... this is a system I know well. I understand one steelhead attempted to enter Cultus Lake last year ... was thwarted by the sockeye smolt fence .. turned around and was not seen again ( being by itself, probably a good thing ;)). The bottom half of this creek is not subject to the near lethal water temperatures common in the upper area ... good spawning and rearing potential there. White chinooks are liking it!
Good to hear about that Tamihi fish - how far upstream did you see it??
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I figured the one I caught was a coquihalla stray... was quite small and a beautiful fish. The one my friend caught was also very small but super fat, figured it had dropped out of the upper to feed on the spring eggs, but I guess we'll never know. Def one of the prettier fish I have seen out of the river to date.
The tamihi fish was in the pool just below the falls I believe. Not too familiar with the system, but it's a deep pool just around the corner up from the bridge. Was gonna go try fish in the open section of the creek for a change and saw it walking by...
And I def know what you mean about the white springs liking that area. They are always going up Sweltzer during high flows. I am very surprised that the Steelies don't go up the cleaner water during high water events... I know that I always fish that area during high water for all species and always have a lot of luck right on the edge of the clean water because of fish cleaning their gills, funny more don't just re route.
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Summer Steelhead. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were never any summer runs in the Chilliwack. Most Summer Run Streams the gradient is pretty steep and one usually finds a barrier or some sort that separates the two. The Chilliwack just doesn't have that.
I ran into an oldtimer on the Skagit a couple of years ago (81 years old!)He was an American from Bellingham and fished all through the area. I asked him about the Upper Chilliwack on the US side and if he had ever fished it. Has a good rainbow and bull trout fishery in the summer, never had caught summer steelhead, and it was just too hard to get to in the winter and there were other streams that were closer to fish for winters. He had no idea about what it's like now as it had been over 30 maybe 40 years since he had fished it. Skagit was still his favorite river and it was his happiest day when Canada fought back and did not allow the Ross Reservoir to increase in size. He gave me a few of his skagit patterns. I still have a couple which I keep aside to make copies.
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I have heard about the upper Chilliwack on the US side of the border.
I would love for them to open the upper (above limit) to fly fishing, catch and release only from July to August.
Would make for a fun trout fishery and wouldn't have too much of an impact on salmon or steelhead that are spawning I would think since there aren't many around at that time.
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ED
The upper Chilliwack was open to fly fishing only for two weeks in July or August many years ago. At the time it seamed like a good idea but concern was raised about the number of
juvenile steelhead that were being caught and released. ( future adults ) As it stands right now you can see anglers fishing the closed area on any given weekend during the summer.
You can hike into any log jam away from the main road and find worm containers as well as lures hanging in the trees.
Lots of questions regarding adult steelhead and bull trout numbers. No enumeration of adults or outgoing juveniles = guesses. Why do you think the stocks are in decline ? Unfortunately you
probably will never see any work on the Vedder/Chilliwack regarding steelhead as the province seems to have a different agenda. Even the steelhead float counts in the upper river have been
dropped due to a lack of funds. ( 3 floaters, 1 driver for 2-3 days ) $$$$$$$ Money being spent on expansion of fish farms and gravel extraction from the Fraser????
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I figured the one I caught was a coquihalla stray... was quite small and a beautiful fish. The one my friend caught was also very small but super fat, figured it had dropped out of the upper to feed on the spring eggs, but I guess we'll never know. Def one of the prettier fish I have seen out of the river to date.
The tamihi fish was in the pool just below the falls I believe. Not too familiar with the system, but it's a deep pool just around the corner up from the bridge. Was gonna go try fish in the open section of the creek for a change and saw it walking by...
And I def know what you mean about the white springs liking that area. They are always going up Sweltzer during high flows. I am very surprised that the Steelies don't go up the cleaner water during high water events... I know that I always fish that area during high water for all species and always have a lot of luck right on the edge of the clean water because of fish cleaning their gills, funny more don't just re route.
perhaps a ...
silverhope fish
chehalis fish
vedder fish that decided to stay
or a fish from washington that just went for a swim
I ahve caught hatchery fish that were many miles from thier natal stream....perhaps they just wanted to go for a swim.