Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Rodney on July 13, 2022, 09:41:08 AM
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First update of 2022 is now available.
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=261594&ID=all
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With 2 of the 3 biggest components returning to spawn above the big bar slide, I wonder what this will mean for management. It won't do the fishery any good to have hundreds of thousands (or millions) of fish perish while stacked up at the slide, but getting enough past the slide is certainly more important than harvest for any group.
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I haven't fished for salmon for a long time however, it seems to me that the Fraser River is half of what it used to be. I was talking to my friend's dad the other day and he told me that they use to be able to barfish for summer run chinook on the Fraser in June. Now the only places you can fish for summer chinook in rivers is the Chilliwack and Chehalis river, which turn into absolute gong shows during the last week of July and the first week of August.
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With 2 of the 3 biggest components returning to spawn above the big bar slide, I wonder what this will mean for management. It won't do the fishery any good to have hundreds of thousands (or millions) of fish perish while stacked up at the slide, but getting enough past the slide is certainly more important than harvest for any group.
Both Quesnel and Chilco stocks migrate later in the summer and water levels at Big Bar should not be a problem for them in a normal flow year. Even with this years higher water they should be able to migrate by at that time of the year. Big Bar is more of a problem for stocks like early Stuart, Bowron and Nadina.
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I haven't fished for salmon for a long time however, it seems to me that the Fraser River is half of what it used to be. I was talking to my friend's dad the other day and he told me that they use to be able to barfish for summer run chinook on the Fraser in June. Now the only places you can fish for summer chinook in rivers is the Chilliwack and Chehalis river, which turn into absolute gong shows during the last week of July and the first week of August.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.18172-8/1015963_10203367793066086_6886956062311582769_o.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Jo_cvDwWmNsAX97tRR4&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=00_AT-Ua6552-1wF1fsKY6w866djuhqCMNbzCJo52lbiFUKYQ&oe=62F41716)
Yes , those were the days , that's for sure .
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Where can I buy some wire leaders and bouncing Bettie’s? :o
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I haven't fished for salmon for a long time however, it seems to me that the Fraser River is half of what it used to be. I was talking to my friend's dad the other day and he told me that they use to be able to barfish for summer run chinook on the Fraser in June. Now the only places you can fish for summer chinook in rivers is the Chilliwack and Chehalis river, which turn into absolute gong shows during the last week of July and the first week of August.
Sure miss those days spent on the bar waiting for the bell to ring. Now the only bell ringing at the bar is last call
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it would be nice if they stocked the Fraser River with spring chinook from the Columbia river so that we could have a fishery during the spring and early summer. At least one of the many hatcheries in the Fraser valley could pump out some early spring run chinook.
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(https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/12027676_10204643127668654_6201354337418258254_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=c6LajMtx3aoAX8C70s-&_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.xx&oh=00_AT_wmfGfjY3BlH2q_Wpc4OpKTWt3r1L07Bs6DD6OuViMjA&oe=62F71C03)
Gill Rd. Bar late August back in the day . Pretty quiet . Fishing was strong . Hooked several Red Springs at that spot . See what the future holds .
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Not sockeye related (bar fishing is a pretty decent way to selectively fish chinook while avoiding sockeye ;) ) but the bar fishing pictures did get me missing those summer mornings/days out on a Fraser bar waiting for a spring to ring the bell. Unfortunately seems like so long ago and not sure if we'll have the chance again
(https://i.ibb.co/Qb92x95/P7250019.jpg) (https://ibb.co/LkSLsSG)
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Almost 10 million estimated for this year.
13 million in 2018.
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I don't expect an opening in the Fraser above Mission as it's too close to the IFS and IF coho window.
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I hope it stays closed in the Fraser, let them do their thing and hopefully in another 4 years we truly have a good run.
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I don't expect an opening in the Fraser above Mission as it's too close to the IFS and IF coho window.
Id imagine its going to open mid-late august as the summer run is predicted to be the largest component. Who knows tho
There will be first nation commercial fisheries above mission if the numbers are their so i see no reason not to open it for rec fishing.
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Almost 10 million estimated for this year.
13 million in 2018.
11,032,000 in 2018 and if you recall there over fished the late component by a significant margin. total catch 5,330,290 in 2018
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Not sure where your info is from but here's the final document from PSC for 2018:
(https://i.imgur.com/JIJIw92.jpg)
https://www.psc.org/publications/fraser-panel-in-season-information/fraser-river-panel-weekly-reports/#73-580-2018-1530130611
I had originally pulled my 13 million number from the pre-season estimate (first report) - just over 12 million in 2018.
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That 12 million was the run sized adopted on September 21st 2018, not the final run sized adopted, which was somewhere around 10 and 11 million fish.
https://watershedwatch.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/2018_Fraser_Sockeye_Summary_Near_Final-G_Taylor.pdf
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Id imagine its going to open mid-late august as the summer run is predicted to be the largest component. Who knows tho
There will be first nation commercial fisheries above mission if the numbers are their so i see no reason not to open it for rec fishing.
Those affected by the big bar slide. Long range weather forecasts are for hot dry weather for the next month or more. River levels will drop improving slide passage but rising temperatures could increase mortality. Wait and see, my expectation is the floss fishery won't happen. However I don't have a particular expertise in this area & it's just a layman's guess.
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Interesting
https://www.alaskahighwaynews.ca/highlights/alaskan-fishers-intercepting-bc-salmon-at-jarring-rate-4943714
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Interesting
https://www.alaskahighwaynews.ca/highlights/alaskan-fishers-intercepting-bc-salmon-at-jarring-rate-4943714
Catching few was understandable but more than half a million fish being harvested that was headed to BC is a crime ! People here put everything to protect and the Alaskan commercial fishermen take everything .....arghhh
if there is a political involvement from BC to stop these fishermen I would happily participate / sign.
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Two week opening starting on the 13th?
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apparently current test fishing returns indicate a lower return at about the p25 level.
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=262905&ID=all&fbclid=IwAR0STQYm1U4ekn8VDXzGrmZ5Og7tGcEdxD2PbOhGRhCIvOJoCRyqfILzJN0
The Fraser River Panel met August 2, 2022, to receive an update on the migration of the Fraser Sockeye run to date and review the status of migration conditions in the Fraser River watershed. The marine test fishing catches in Johnstone Strait continue to be variable but overall have been low, with the highest catches being observed in the Area 13 purse seine.
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=262951&ID=all&fbclid=IwAR1sVort2FRW7kcLrrUr39jE3Wpse1iRONzIQSgpo4ou2hvTbBkLA2wWHpg
Although information is very preliminary, to date the Early Summer Run Sockeye appears to be either late or tracking between the pre-season p25 and p50 forecast levels.
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There is a good report on Sockeye every Friday at the PSC: https://www.psc.org/publications/fraser-panel-in-season-information/fraser-river-panel-weekly-reports/
The one tomorrow should tell the current story - I tend to pay attention to PSC over DFO.
Port Hardy is "Round Island (area 12)"
Just north of Campbell River is "Area 13 seine"
All the numbers in this area (Johnstone Strait) will be lower since the diversion rate is 19% to the inside (See the July 29 report above).
The "San Juan" numbers show the real counts on the fish - area 20 being the main one.
From that report: Catches substantially picked up in Area 20 in the last two days, remained
relatively low in Area 12 and were variable but showed signs of increasing in Area 13.
Interesting quote from your first link: Gill net test fishing catches in the Fraser River have been moderate to high over the last few days, with the highest catches being observed at Brownsville Bar and Qualark.
Early summers are not the target run.
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Only a matter of time before you can buy your sockeye on the side of the road. Along with Chinook that are closed until Sept 1 at the fraser mouth. Same old crap every year. We might get an opening when the run has already passed and been netted up and sold. Shame.
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There is a good report on Sockeye every Friday at the PSC: https://www.psc.org/publications/fraser-panel-in-season-information/fraser-river-panel-weekly-reports/
The one tomorrow should tell the current story - I tend to pay attention to PSC over DFO.
Port Hardy is "Round Island (area 12)"
Just north of Campbell River is "Area 13 seine"
All the numbers in this area (Johnstone Strait) will be lower since the diversion rate is 19% to the inside (See the July 29 report above).
The "San Juan" numbers show the real counts on the fish - area 20 being the main one.
From that report: Catches substantially picked up in Area 20 in the last two days, remained
relatively low in Area 12 and were variable but showed signs of increasing in Area 13.
Interesting quote from your first link: Gill net test fishing catches in the Fraser River have been moderate to high over the last few days, with the highest catches being observed at Brownsville Bar and Qualark.
Early summers are not the target run.
The numbers are all the same as are the comments. By treaty, interpretation of the results is done by the PSC panel which includes both FOC personnel, US personnel and other non government people. The report you quoted was a few days older. The comment was based on test results in the marine approaches and not in river and it related to the number of summer fish in the marine approaches plus that few early summer fish were still in the approaches. Overall more than 50% of fish taken at the test sites are summer fish
You should re-read the last of the two quotes.
As I recall this happens almost every summer when people who track the test results focus on the catch at one test site. The panel has over the years become far more conservative since in the past they allowed over harvest for much the same reasons; over anticipating returns based on good early or isolated results only to have later returns flop and come in below the 50% mark.
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Things are tracking below the p50 level its still early but its looking like it probably below p50. Though its possible to have a big push of fish tho we haven't seen that many times exect this year with the skeena and stamp.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.psc.org%2Fwp-admin%2Fadmin-ajax.php%3Fjuwpfisadmin%3Dfalse%26action%3Dwpfd%26task%3Dfile.download%26wpfd_category_id%3D656%26wpfd_file_id%3D14698%26token%3D%26preview%3D1&embedded=true
My understanding is they will open in river between 15-24 somewhere in there.
Mission escapements gotta increase tho have to start seeing 100k plus days.
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Has anyone noted that the shore fishing spots are going to be extremely limited to non-existant this year because of the height of the Fraser?
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Before we start worrying about shore fishing spot access lol... Let's worry about how the rest of the stocks which everyone hopes to target are doing so far.
(https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/297671543_597704511715036_9190288008288176952_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=kNCRlk5IpyAAX-0yJWn&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=00_AT-hmhw49yHmnWcm_R3wBNixY3Baygvb2KDsjNJl0G6ZdA&oe=62F42538)
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Before we start worrying about shore fishing spot access lol... Let's worry about how the rest of the stocks which everyone hopes to target are doing so far.
:-X :(
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Bouncing betties and sockeye corkies for sale.
50 bucks for a bag of 10 betties and 10 corkies.
Guaranteed success.
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The way Fred's has them displayed at the front of their store, your be convinced an opening was imminent lol
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Before we start worrying about shore fishing spot access lol... Let's worry about how the rest of the stocks which everyone hopes to target are doing so far.
I mean, considering most of the bars and fishing spots no longer exist, you can't blame a guy for wanting to do his homework just in case an opening does occur. Last thing I'd want is to be looking for spots on my 1 day off
(https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/297671543_597704511715036_9190288008288176952_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=kNCRlk5IpyAAX-0yJWn&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=00_AT-hmhw49yHmnWcm_R3wBNixY3Baygvb2KDsjNJl0G6ZdA&oe=62F42538)
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No fot sure. My point is that I think the likelihood of an opening is disappearing quickly now.
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Before we start worrying about shore fishing spot access lol... Let's worry about how the rest of the stocks which everyone hopes to target are doing so far.
(https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/297671543_597704511715036_9190288008288176952_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=kNCRlk5IpyAAX-0yJWn&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=00_AT-hmhw49yHmnWcm_R3wBNixY3Baygvb2KDsjNJl0G6ZdA&oe=62F42538)
Early Stuarts are more than double the preseason forecast.
Good story in the Sun: https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/strong-sockeye-salmon-runs-bode-well-for-famed-fraser-fishery
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The way Fred's has them displayed at the front of their store, your be convinced an opening was imminent lol
Fishing stores get advance notice of openings (or are part of the discussions on openings).
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Early summers are looking horrible but the summer run is looking between p25 and p50 and I beloved there is still commercial TAC at the P25 level. So even if only 5 million return there is still likely to be an opening.
The thing that’s not really in any of our control thos is of numbers are poor do we really want to harvest this return down to minimum escapement levels.
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Fishing stores get advance notice of openings (or are part of the discussions on openings).
No they don't. :) I get the same information as Fred and others, which is pretty much the same as what the public is getting, except maybe one or two days earlier. There have been no discussions on potential openings.
We are now talking about stocks that may or may not make the P25, P50 pre-season forecast estimates, when these same stocks were returning at exceptionally high numbers four, eight and twelve years ago. I'm not sure why so many are still excited about pushing for openings.
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You're working late, Rod.
It was an off-hand remark that I shouldn't have made (I couldn't remember the details).
My comment implies that they have more than a week's notice but as you said, it is more like a couple of days.
But what if there are 20 million fish?
The Sun article mentions the 30 million return in 2010.
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You're working late, Rod.
It was an off-hand remark that I shouldn't have made (I couldn't remember the details).
My comment implies that they have more than a week's notice but as you said, it is more like a couple of days.
But what if there are 20 million fish?
The Sun article mentions the 30 million return in 2010.
At some point around ten plus years ago, we'd get information a week or two before any potential openings. Not information on definite openings, but more on what was being worked on etc. This arrangement allowed us to provide feedbacks, an actual dialogue process was happening. In the last three or four years, I'd say we pretty much get the information at the same time as the general public when the fishery notices are released.
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Marine test catches are very low but the in river ones are decent,
Gonna make it tuff for managers
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New run size has been adopted by the Fraser River Panel for the early summer group - 760k fish, half of the pre-season forecast at P50.
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=263502&ID=all
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I find it interesting that only 10% of the fish are taking the inside passage now. Also, the report noted that the Thompson component of the Early Summer group comes in later, so that part is unknown. Water conditions are good, and the amount of Summer fish already seems to indicate a very strong run overall (but they won't say so).
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Just saw this on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/100007804059034/videos/622292052559746/
Delete if not allowed, but I find it kind of annoying that they choose to build it during the summer during the sockeye run where so many groups are dependent on it. I guess the water level is lower, but right in the middle of the sockeye run? Would March not be better (Ice?) due to freshet not quite hitting yet and very minimal salmon (if any) in the river at that point?
Who knows, I don't work in oil and gas 🤷♀️
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What exactly is it we we are looking at here on the video link?
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DFO, in their infinite wisdom, has set the construction window for instream works to a couple weeks in August, saying that this is the window of least impact. This is for all construction projects in the lower mainland at least. They do not appear to consider that different watercourses may have different run timing.
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Just saw this on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/100007804059034/videos/622292052559746/
Delete if not allowed, but I find it kind of annoying that they choose to build it during the summer during the sockeye run where so many groups are dependent on it. I guess the water level is lower, but right in the middle of the sockeye run? Would March not be better (Ice?) due to freshet not quite hitting yet and very minimal salmon (if any) in the river at that point?
Who knows, I don't work in oil and gas 🤷♀️
this has zero affect on Fraser sockeye migrating past Hope.
steelhead all spawn starting March, fry are trying to come out of the gravel. Nothing is spawning yet in the coquihalla so now is the time to do the dirty work. Wait a few more weeks then what ever makes up the lower river salmon run might start spawning.
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DFO, in their infinite wisdom, has set the construction window for instream works to a couple weeks in August, saying that this is the window of least impact. This is for all construction projects in the lower mainland at least. They do not appear to consider that different watercourses may have different run timing.
Name a lower mainland river with spawning anything in early August.
Some may have salmon/trout/steelhead in the river now, just not spawning yet, soon maybe just not in the first couple of weeks in August.
Not too sure about Northern pike minnows or any other species of coarse fish though.
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did I say there was spawning going on in august? I simply made reference to the lazy, one size fits all approach. even if they arent spawning yet, doing this kind of instream work is clearly detrimental to the salmon that are in the river. maybe for some rivers, like the coq, there is no good time to be open trenching through it. in that case they should pony up for alternate crossing methods, ie pipe bridge or tunnel under, instead of the relatively cheap open trench method.
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Name a lower mainland river with spawning anything in early August.
Some may have salmon/trout/steelhead in the river now, just not spawning yet, soon maybe just not in the first couple of weeks in August.
Not too sure about Northern pike minnows or any other species of coarse fish though.
Pikeminnow life matters too! ;D
The window for in-stream work is August and the first half of September when impact is at its minimum, but it doesn't look pretty for sure. The concern isn't really on sockeye salmon, but on summer steelhead, both adults that are returning right now as well as juveniles that have been rearing (the same fish which were devastated by the flood last November). And of course also all the smaller species that people can't see, from lamprey to suckers. That is the environmental cost whenever work like this is done. The real question is, what will be done to mitigate these damages after the work is completed.
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A good article on CBC about some dead spawners on the Coquihalla as a result of the construction .
The work should be done when the presence of fish is lowest not when the water is lowest.
The Coquihalla hasnt been the same since the highway construction in the 80's
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Hopefully this creates some action by DFO , its sad that this river has been forgotten and the once great steelhead and trout fishery has been so adversely affected .
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I fished the Coq in August back when the highway was being built and after. That is main time the river is open so fishing is likely hopeless. It is true the runs declined in the years following the highway and there was a steep decline from around 92 that lasted several years. It also happened in many streams at the time including a complete collapse of the east shore streams on Vancouver Island. The Coq' has had some decent & even good returns in the last 20 or so years since but most biologists familiar with it think it's productivity was permanently reduced by the highway and the previous pipeline construction. What's going on there now can't make it any better. It's a pity we are throwing so much of our environment out the window for something we likely will be using much less of within 30 years.
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Perhaps it could turn into a good rainbow trout fishery, instead of a salmon or steelhead fishery.
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Just call it gravel removed for flood protection that’s what everyone else does lol
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So I went to where the coquihalla meets the fraser river this morning to take a look out of curiosity. I saw three ripe and ready to spawn socks in the coq just a few hundred meters from the fraser. Why would they be here? Is it possible kawkawa lake supports a sockeye run? Or are these lost sockeye that are just looking for anyplace to spawn. I tried to go near the worksite but couldn't find a way to get close.
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180k past mission yesterday these are the kind of numbers we need to get an opening
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There are kokanee in Kawkawa Lake so it would make sense for it to support a sockeye run.
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180k past mission yesterday these are the kind of numbers we need to get an opening
These are the kind of numbers required on the various spawning grounds after they make it past the legal and illegal fishing currently happening.
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A good article on CBC about some dead spawners on the Coquihalla as a result of the construction .
The work should be done when the presence of fish is lowest not when the water is lowest.
The Coquihalla hasnt been the same since the highway construction in the 80's
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Hopefully this creates some action by DFO , its sad that this river has been forgotten and the once great steelhead and trout fishery has been so adversely affected .
DFO has no responsibility for steelhead in the coq' (there are also sea-run bulltrout). The Province approved and built the Highway. The steelhead don't spawn until late winter or early spring and bulls in the fall.
I went to where the coquihalla meets the fraser river this morning to take a look out of curiosity. I saw three ripe and ready to spawn socks in the coq
this is something that happens in years of sustained high water in the late spring and early summer. Some sockeye are exhausted by the water velocity in the canyon, drop down towards hope and look to enter just about any tributary to spawn. i am not aware of any sockeye that spawn in Kawkawa creek and I thought the Kokanee were introduced and not native. Perhaps Rod knows more on the topic of sockeye running up the Coq.
These are the kind of numbers required on the various spawning grounds after they make it past the legal and illegal fishing currently happening.
Most of the sockeye that have passed or are passing Mission also have to pass the Big Bar slide.
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Most of the sockeye that have passed or are passing Mission also have to pass the Big Bar slide.
Yes many barriers to over come along the journey.
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August 12th update.
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=263753&ID=all
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from a buddy in the DFO sockeye working group and it looks like the fat lady is starting to sing.............
I was in the Sockeye Working Group meeting via the SFAB process on Wed. We have been meeting every Wed at 3pm.
Run is tracking in the p10 to p25 range. Not good. I asked what would happen if we came in at p25 (about 4.3 million fish) and if that number of fish is enough to trigger commercial or recreational opportunities. The answer was not likely. Taking into consideration it is actually around p10 this past week, it’s not looking good. They showed one model as if the fish were a week late and it didn’t even get it up to a p25.
So unless a bunch of fish show up next week and get things trending towards a p25 or better, I don’t think we are going to get an opening.
Hopefully that happens, but DFO seemed to be suggesting that was not likely going to happen based on what they have seen this past week and the info coming down the line…. Historically runs have been tracking p30 or less in recent years
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It’s changed a bit since the Wednesday meeting last week. Summers are tracking p50 In river but p25 in marine tests.
Still could be an opening but it’s certainly not a guarantee
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Run is tracking in the p10 to p25 range. Not good. I asked what would happen if we came in at p25 (about 4.3 million fish) and if that number of fish is enough to trigger commercial or recreational opportunities. The answer was not likely. Taking into consideration it is actually around p10 this past week, it’s not looking good. They showed one model as if the fish were a week late and it didn’t even get it up to a p25.
This is really bad news. I recently read an article As sockeye run numbers in systems up the coast were seeing high returns most observers expected a good return on the Fraser. That it looks like that it so not happening it indicates something else is happening to keep Fraser returns low:
https://thetyee.ca/News/2022/08/08/Skeena-Sockeye-Returns-Surging-But-Big-Concerns-Remain/
“If you’re a sockeye, or a salmon, it’s just a more amenable environment out in the ocean for you right now,” Taylor said. “The unnerving part is what can go down can go up again and, of course, we had successive years of very warm sea surface temperatures, including the Blob, that had a really a negative impact upon salmon.
“Most of us are thinking this might bode well for next year, and maybe even the year after, but in our age it’s hard to look too far into the future.”
While it’s still early days, Taylor said the outlook isn’t looking as positive for the Fraser River, which has also struggled in recent years with low returns. He expects there will be a clearer picture in the days ahead.
“A lot of us are watching the Fraser with real interest, because if it doesn’t come back, it speaks to something else going on with the Fraser,” he said. “Other sockeye runs, we knew off the bat — this is going to be a big one.”
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Taylor is bang on typically the Fraser will trend with runs like the skeena and nass who seem returmd well above brood.
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Does Alaska commercial fishery intercepting Salmon headed towards BC have an affect ?
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Best to just think there is no opening this year !!!! And when you see we get a 3 day opportunity. It will be like a kid opening a Christmas present. No point getting your hopes up
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Was driving between Hope and Yale a couple days ago and seen 5 pickups in different locations with the large fish totes in the back coming up from the Fraser. Sockeye netting must be good for some. Too bad you have to be part of a group that complains and brings up things that happened a 100 years ago to catch fish. Anyone that buys fish from them should be arrested.
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Too bad you have to be part of a group that complains and brings up things that happened a 100 years ago to catch fish.
To be fair, I’d be upset too if some folks stole my land and buried my kid behind a church.
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To be fair, I’d be upset too if some folks stole my land and buried my kid behind a church.
good post!
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Was driving between Hope and Yale a couple days ago and seen 5 pickups in different locations with the large fish totes in the back coming up from the Fraser. Sockeye netting must be good for some. Too bad you have to be part of a group that complains and brings up things that happened a 100 years ago to catch fish. Anyone that buys fish from them should be arrested.
Distasteful post. Misdirected anger at a group that is allowed by law to net for food, social and ceremonial purposes. It is too bad that the recreational sockeye opening didn't get announced but perhaps anger should be directed at DFO and other governing agencies that have mismanaged fisheries for decades.
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Does Alaska commercial fishery intercepting Salmon headed towards BC have an affect ?
Yes it does 😑
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Was driving between Hope and Yale a couple days ago and seen 5 pickups in different locations with the large fish totes in the back coming up from the Fraser. Sockeye netting must be good for some. Too bad you have to be part of a group that complains and brings up things that happened a 100 years ago to catch fish. Anyone that buys fish from them should be arrested.
I don't understand how you can be jealous of those who have lost so much.
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I don't understand how you can be jealous of those who have lost so much.
exactly, I would be a first time sockeye angler and I would be more disappointed than anybody else if it doesn't open as I've been waiting for this since I started fishing two years ago but what else can I do than sit and hope for an opening.
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A lot of times I don’t see these comments coming from a place of jealousy but rather a sense that all Canadian should share equally and there should be some level of fairness.
First Nations are “Citizen plus”
And that plus part is what I see some struggling with to accept.
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A lot of times I don’t see these comments coming from a place of jealousy but rather a sense that all Canadian should share equally and there should be some level of fairness.
First Nations are “Citizen plus”
And that plus part is what I see some struggling with to accept.
Calling FNs "citizens plus" is so shockingly biased it's hard not to ascribe to nothing other than obnoxious racism. On pretty much every socio-economic measure of well beings FNs are far worse off than the general population!. When I say general population that includes other people who are not members of the until the present structurally privileged and entitled people (particularly males) of European background.
Even the first sentence of your post is a sort of nonsense. There is nothing in our laws that guarantees an equal access. We have to buy licenses for access. Access is controlled & restricted. These factors don't even consider the historical and legal rights of FNs who you seem to ignore were here first and at the outset the government of Canada and it's predecessor authorities recognized as long ago as 300 years and more.
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At worst it's racism. At best it's ignorance. In reality, it's probably a mix of the two. I still cringe when either of my parents talk about "indians". My dad is similarly jealous of their fishing rights, and often jokes about how they love to use dynamite or shopping carts to go indian fishing. There's an old-school sense of incuriousity behind these jokes, a muddy mixture of ignorance and racism, with no desire to change either.
There's no changing minds on the internet, so let me share some entertainment with you. There's an author named Thomas King who recorded some talks he did years ago about indigenous identity and growing up in Canada. Don't worry, he doesn't get preachy or blame anyone or make you feel guilty. His humour is deadpan and perfect, and I say that as a devoted Stuart McLean fan.
https://www.gccarra.ca/w9r-blog-feed/2020/10/ideas-podcast-revisiting-thomas-king-masseys-lectures
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It has nothing to do with being jealous. I hope that the Fraser never opens again to salmon fishing (pink, coho, spring, sockeye) all it does is bring poor fishing methods to other rivers. FN can fish all they want for food and ceremonial purposes. What pisses me off is when the fish are sold to idiots that buy them out of the back of a pickup. Where do you think most of the guys sturgeon fishing are getting their fresh bait from. I use to sturgeon fish all the time and would see boats going to shore and buying whole salmon to be used as bait for sturgeon. I live in a strata complex with a 100 other units and in last couple of days I have seen people coming back with coolers of sockeye and springs. This is what pisses me off. And they justify it in their head that it is acceptable because it benefits them with fresh salmon, and openly brag that they have a freezer full of fish. That has nothing to do with FN food and ceremonial fishing.
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Hood catches in area 12 last couple of days
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Calling FNs "citizens plus" is so shockingly biased it's hard not to ascribe to nothing other than obnoxious racism. On pretty much every socio-economic measure of well beings FNs are far worse off than the general population!. When I say general population that includes other people who are not members of the until the present structurally privileged and entitled people (particularly males) of European background.
Even the first sentence of your post is a sort of nonsense. There is nothing in our laws that guarantees an equal access. We have to buy licenses for access. Access is controlled & restricted. These factors don't even consider the historical and legal rights of FNs who you seem to ignore were here first and at the outset the government of Canada and it's predecessor authorities recognized as long ago as 300 years and more.
Citzan plus refers to them having all the rights of Canadians plus rights and titles. A phase coined by First Nations themselves
Calling that racist is hogwash, perhaps you should give yourself a history lesson on it.
Or better yet donate your land and house to the First Nation who tradition territory your illegally settled on. You evil colonialists shame shame shame feel shame. Feel the guilt. Hold your head down
Using fish as some kind of currency to right these atrocities is the real Injustice. That should help increase their social economics.
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Citzan plus refers to them having all the rights of Canadians plus rights and titles. A phase coined by First Nations themselves
This is false. The term was first coined in the Hawthorne Report a government funded report published in 1967 which contrary to common belief Indian communities had not disappeared and still possessed land title and rights that flowed to them at Confederation. It was not coined by FNs.
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And some how were discussing this instead of sockeye fishing. System working as intended I guess
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Let's bring this thread on the right track again!.
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Let's bring this thread on the right track again!.
Absolutely, area 12 numbers are promising
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Absolutely, area 12 numbers are promising
Love to hear that, sir!!!
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Absolutely, area 12 numbers are promising
never stops! Very possibly the start of the Adams River returns.
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Most likely, they also tendency to divert to the inside
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anyone now think that there will still be a recreational sockeye fishery this year on Fraser sockeye?
getting pretty late in the season if something positive is not announced when today's update comes out.
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anyone now think that there will still be a recreational sockeye fishery this year on Fraser sockeye?
getting pretty late in the season if something positive is not announced when today's update comes out.
They announced the summers are coming in at the p50 level but fisheries are constrained by the poor return of the early summers.
There is TAC so the Americans are out fishing and so First Nations. First Nations got an increase in fsc up to 1.25 million and it seems our managers want to wait untill their catch has been achieved to think about any commercial or rec opening.
Is there gonna be a Rec and commercial opening? Still a chance maybe in September but not something I would say is a for sure thing any more.
From FB
Just got off the Fraser call.
The Canadian Panel under Les Jantz rejected run size forecasts done by the Commission and recommended that much lower run sizes be adopted. "to be risk adverse"
Which would mean no fisheries. The US accepted the run size forcasts of the PSC so is "issuing a letter" tomorrow to say that they are going fishing anyway.
Canada offered to meet with the US tomorrow to see what tomorrows test fisheries bring but when the US said that they were going fishing anyway, Les said he withdrew the offer to meet tomorrow and would not meet til the regular meeting next Tuesday. Said "Canada is bearing the whole burden of conservation"
No Fishing for us. Next mtg Tuesday.
Serious disagreement between US, Canada and PSC secretariat. PSC recommends lates at 2 million which is somewhere between p25 and p50. US agrees with the PSC.
Bottom line, the US will go fishing even though Canada opposes the US fishery, and Canada will not fish.
Canada does not accept that Lates are really late and still coming.
The US can go fishing if PSC staff agrees with them, which they did.
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So disappointing.....
I guess I'll just get my sockeye from the natives instead of catching my own in the salt, such a load of hog wash
https://vancouver.craigslist.org/bnc/for/d/north-vancouver-fresh-sockeye-salmon/7522821630.html
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There is TAC so the Americans are out fishing and so First Nations. First Nations got an increase in fsc up to 1.25 million and it seems our managers want to wait until their catch has been achieved to think about any commercial or rec opening.
te]
one user group is getting over 7.5 million pounds of sockeye (based on a 6lb average). There should be a lot of fish for sale if they succeed at harvesting this many.
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So disappointing.....
I guess I'll just get my sockeye from the natives instead of catching my own in the salt, such a load of hog wash
https://vancouver.craigslist.org/bnc/for/d/north-vancouver-fresh-sockeye-salmon/7522821630.html
so sad... thought I was gonna get my first chance to catch a sockeye this year.
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so sad... thought I was gonna get my first chance to catch a sockeye this year.
I think rec fishing for salmon in the Fraser is mostly over. The anglers here who were fishing in the 80s had it good, if the stories I've heard can be believed ::) I just hope that they knew at the time how good they had it.
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Back in the 80's , It was more or less float fishing in the upper Fraser as well as lots of bar fishing chinook . You were able to catch the odd Sockeye on the cork floating rig , short leader with a big dewy worm
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Catches went down yesterday after PSC settled on their guesstimate. I'm guessing they may have to revise it downward.
Area 12 - Blinkhorn Sockeye Seine 8/17/2022 1 5 5 8145 0 2450 5 5 0 0 2 2 0 16 0 1629 490
Area 12 - Blinkhorn Sockeye Seine 8/18/2022 1 6 6 2694 0 1382 7 7 0 0 9 9 0 28 0 449 230.3333333
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I think rec fishing for salmon in the Fraser is mostly over. The anglers here who were fishing in the 80s had it good, if the stories I've heard can be believed ::) I just hope that they knew at the time how good they had it.
I never fished the Fraser in the 80s. Most of my summer time fishing was on the Coquihalla for summer runs and the Skagit. I did floss sockeye starting around 2000 and did fish most years until the last opening in 2018. I know during that later period there were some very large returns both for sockeye and springs. I think those years were a bit of a jump in what's been a steady decline for the last 40 years. The past 10 or so years have been the opposite, that is to say a bigger decline than we have ever seen. Hard to say what is causing it but from what I read most academic & professional salmon biologists think it's ocean warming or declining ocean conditions. Few seem to buy the pinniped predation argument. Some of that increase has also been driven by changes in the ocean as southern waters support even less fish.
I have been fishing the Fraser valley since the early 60s. The biggest difference I have noticed is not so much the drop in the number fish but that so many smaller streams have just a tiny fraction of the salmon trout & steelhead that they once had. In the late 60s the Nicomekl in Surrey returned over 20,000 coho - that's in stream. That was unusual even for that time. The population increase (it's increased over 400% in under 60 years) and development have really hurt wild salmon etc. Only 2 or 3 rivers have large hatchery returns. I don't think that will last much longer either. I expect it to be close to gone by the time my life is over. Frankly I don't think there is much to be done about it! People are just not willing to change there standard of living in a way that could reverse the trend.
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Salmon species go back millions of years and have been resilient so far, if we keep our efforts in preserving them, I dont doubt they will bounce back - ofcourse by efforts i mean collective effort on climate change, it not going to be over night or be easy by any means but any small effort would go a long way. Im not sad about not having an opportunity for sockeye, rather more concerned about the decline and hopefully in coming few years we see them bounce back
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any examination of what is known about salmon populations in the last 100 to 150 years to now, shows a remarked decline. Salmon may be resilient (that's arguable) but if the North Pacific becomes an ocean zone not terribly hospitable to them, there can be no bounce back. Back around 1,000 years ago the climate in some parts of the Northern hemisphere were much warmer including The PNWC and what geological data is available shows salmon were no where as numerous as say circa 1900. Even our local FNs did not seem to rely on them much that came a few hundred years later. These were changes of small amount, maybe about what we have experienced so far since 1900. If we use the last great period of warming, the Paleo-eocene Thermal Maximum (http://Paleo-eocene Thermal Maximum), the climate warmed 5 to 8 degrees C on a much smaller annual carbon increase than our current carbon fuel increments over a period of some thousands of years, it took something like 200,000 years for cooling to really start. If anyone thinks it's ok to wait that long for the climate to cool and have salmon come back from a hopeful survival in Arctic waters...you have a patience that greatly exceeds death which seems pointless.
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https://ufawu-unifor.org/media/ufawu-responds-to-canadian-waters-closed-while-americans-fish/
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any examination of what is known about salmon populations in the last 100 to 150 years to now, shows a remarked decline. Salmon may be resilient (that's arguable) but if the North Pacific becomes an ocean zone not terribly hospitable to them, there can be no bounce back. Back around 1,000 years ago the climate in some parts of the Northern hemisphere were much warmer including The PNWC and what geological data is available shows salmon were no where as numerous as say circa 1900. Even our local FNs did not seem to rely on them much that came a few hundred years later. These were changes of small amount, maybe about what we have experienced so far since 1900. If we use the last great period of warming, the Paleo-eocene Thermal Maximum (http://Paleo-eocene Thermal Maximum), the climate warmed 5 to 8 degrees C on a much smaller annual carbon increase than our current carbon fuel increments over a period of some thousands of years, it took something like 200,000 years for cooling to really start. If anyone thinks it's ok to wait that long for the climate to cool and have salmon come back from a hopeful survival in Arctic waters...you have a patience that greatly exceeds death which seems pointless.
With technological advancements and reseachers already working on reversal, it shouldnt be far fetched, maybe few decades.....
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To be honest, sockeye taste just as same as the other salmon. Be patient for the coho coming
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With technological advancements and reseachers already working on reversal, it shouldnt be far fetched, maybe few decades.....
Reversal of what? Geological evidence shows that climate cooling takes 10 to 20 times longer than warming. Even if it's "reversed" in 30 years there could be warming for 300 years or more.
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It's pretty clear the Earth has been in a warming trend for the last 20,000 years and that the relative stability of the last 2,000 years is the exception and not the rule. Salmon, which evolved as a family about 6 million years ago, have only existed in our area for the last 10,000 years, colonizing the local rivers after the glaciers retreated.
https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/whats-hottest-earths-ever-been (https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/whats-hottest-earths-ever-been)
If you scroll down to the graph showing the average temperature over the last 500 million years, the up trend tick in temperature at the far right represents the last 20,000ish years.
Believe it or not, all that historical variation in temperature, all those rapid massive swings up and down, was natural. Humans have only had enough influence to affect climate for the last 250 or so years, and we are probably accelerating this already-existing trend. I'm not sure we could reverse it, even if we wanted to. The last thing we want is to precipitate another glaciation. What we really want is climate stability, but looking at that graph tells me that we should remember the old adage that nothing is permanent except change.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLtdasjU_f8
Another great video by Matt Foy
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLtdasjU_f8
Another great video by Matt Foy
That was a great lecture! Cheers.
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so in the latest opportunity on panel meeting today for sockeye, what is the difference i am not seeing between communal sale and economic
opportunity. Looking for clarity. I read some of the outlines on treaty and it sure sounds like it is for sale to general public. Am i wrong?
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Seems like summers will now be constrained by the poor showing of lates. Guess that’s what happens when you grossly overfish the lates in 2018.
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Seems like summers will now be constrained by the poor showing of lates. Guess that’s what happens when you grossly overfish the lates in 2018.
How much was it over fished? what was the target spawning escapement vs the actual?
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The preliminary 2018 Late Run Sockeye spawning escapement estimate totals 1,584,850 of which 735,119 are adult males, 849,721 are adult females and 10 are jacks (Table 1). It is 69% of the 2014 brood year escapement of 2,303,384 and 64% of the cycle average (excluding 2002 due to incomplete assessment) of 2,468,905 (Figure 1). It is 81% of the Pacific Salmon Commission (PSC) estimate of potential spawning escapement1 of 1,950,188, 84% of the spawning escapement target of 1,880,000 and 82% of the projected spawning escapement2 of 1,933,800 based on the Fraser River panel final in-season adopted Late Run size of 4,700,000.
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4.7 million return only 1.5 million made it to spawn.
Cycle spawning average is 2.5 millions
So over harvested by about 500k to 1 million
If you recall the gulf troll over estimated how many were in the gulf and the the area B seine cleaned up. Then around 300k went missing from mission to spawning grounds.
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4.7 million return only 1.5 million made it to spawn.
Cycle spawning average is 2.5 millions
So over harvested by about 500k to 1 million
If you recall the gulf troll over estimated how many were in the gulf and the the area B seine cleaned up. Then around 300k went missing from mission to spawning grounds.
Comparing the cycle spawning average to the actual return before any harvest or loss is a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. The final report was issued with the 2018 annual report and they estimated the actual spawning escapement of about 1.5 million was about 15% below the target of 1.8 million. Using the 20/20 vision of hindsight one could say they should have upped the target to over 2 million. Considering this segment of the run can produce over returning 10 adult (ie 15 million +) for every spawning pair it seems a bit of a reach to say they over fished it.
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The video was interesting to listen to. But it really worries me if these are the people planning the future of fishing in the world. The date shown says it was presented October 2022. O a happier not I was out on the Fraser and Harrison today for a boat ride and seen some interesting things. Saw an older bar fishing where a creek dumped into the Fraser landing a Spring. So I went to shore and had a chat. Says he gets a couple bites a day and has only went home empty handed twice in the last two weeks. His wife drops him off in the morning where he walks in and sits on the bank for the morning and picks him up later in the day. LOL. Tells me he will fish untill he cant walk in anymore. "What are they going to do to me, to old to go to jail and no money to pay a fine. No I would not report him.... I say good for him....
On the way back seen a couple FN fishing, went to shore again and shared my last 3 beers with them. They said they were getting on average 800 sockeye a day.. One net two guys. Amazing. Things are so screwed. Oh my bad, I guess there is a ceremony this weekend...
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At least someone gets to fish for springs in the Fraser, the dfo have destroyed the salmon fishery on the Fraser. we need landlocked salmon fisheries for coho and chinook preferably within 2 hours of Vancouver.
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No Fish for you! Million for us. We make 2 wrongs into a right.
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I’m thinking there’s a lot of sockeye in the Fraser because people are buying fish from the natives everyday now. Hey DFO time to open it up to the sporties. We take a fraction of the fish compared to what the Natives are hauling in everyday. :(
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I’m thinking there’s a lot of sockeye in the Fraser because people are buying fish from the natives everyday now. Hey DFO time to open it up to the sporties. We take a fraction of the fish compared to what the Natives are hauling in everyday. :(
From fort langley to Albion out to hope to refer trucks getting loaded from the docks of port McNeil with Fraser sockeye.
Seems like there’s a new market maker out their
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I'll bet the lady standing at The Cheam Cannabis shop on Hwy.9 with the sign that reads FRESH SALMON would be more than happy to sell a couple fish if you stopped to say hi. But DFO requests that you ask for the license required to sell or you could be in big trouble for buying.......
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I'll bet the lady standing at The Cheam Cannabis shop on Hwy.9 with the sign that reads FRESH SALMON would be more than happy to sell a couple fish if you stopped to say hi. But DFO requests that you ask for the license required to sell or you could be in big trouble for buying.......
I dont think ive seen as much FSC sale fish ever, The reports are everywhere. Ill be surprised if any fish make it back to the elders and the drying racks.
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Record returns to Bristol Bay, Alaska this year. Far Larger than forecast to the Nass, you can fish sockeye in Meziadin Lake, large return to the Skeena. Double forecast return to the Stamp/Sproat at Port Alberni. Large return to Lake Washington within Seattle. The largest ever run recorded passing over the Bonneville Dam on the Columbia, you can now fish Sockeye in Osoyoos Lake. The conclusion has to be that ocean conditions were good for sockeye all up and down the coast. What happened to the Fraser fish? Impact of Discovery Islands fish farms?
It is of interest to learn how the sockeye fared for other rivers and runs. I recall that the Upper Pitt sockeye go out via Juan de Fuca. Anybody know how they fared this year? Other streams anybody?
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Record returns to Bristol Bay, Alaska this year. Far Larger than forecast to the Nass, you can fish sockeye in Meziadin Lake, large return to the Stikine. Double forecast return to the Stamp/Sproat at Port Alberni. Large return to Lake Washington within Seattle. The largest ever run recorded passing over the Bonneville Dam on the Columbia, you can now fish Sockeye in Osoyoos Lake. The conclusion has to be that ocean conditions were good for sockeye all up and down the coast. What happened to the Fraser fish? Impact of Discovery Islands fish farms?
It is of interest to learn how the sockeye fared for other rivers and runs. I recall that the Upper Pitt sockeye go out via Juan de Fuca. Anybody know how they fared this year? Other streams anybody?
ITs hit or miss for fraser fish, Early Stuarts for example returned well above forecast and there is a few other runs that are returning above forecast. But there is some traditional Big runs that look like they are returning well below forecast.
Chilko looks to be tracking below but Birkenhead, Big Silver looks to be above forcast.
Early summer is tracking near forcast but its being brought down by Early Thompson proportion that is tracking WAY below forecast.
https://www.psc.org/download/656/2022/14720/2022-08-22-distribution.pdf
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Record returns to Bristol Bay, Alaska this year. Far Larger than forecast to the Nass, you can fish sockeye in Meziadin Lake, large return to the Skeena. Double forecast return to the Stamp/Sproat at Port Alberni. Large return to Lake Washington within Seattle. The largest ever run recorded passing over the Bonneville Dam on the Columbia, you can now fish Sockeye in Osoyoos Lake. The conclusion has to be that ocean conditions were good for sockeye all up and down the coast. What happened to the Fraser fish? Impact of Discovery Islands fish farms?
It is of interest to learn how the sockeye fared for other rivers and runs. I recall that the Upper Pitt sockeye go out via Juan de Fuca. Anybody know how they fared this year? Other streams anybody?
hot summer, warm water, wild fires (!) and generally poor returns for several years may be factors. I think the effect of the Big Bar slide will start to be felt next year? If so, you think the returns have been bad over the last 6 or 7 years...just wait. The river could be all but empty of Early Stuart, Early Summer and Summer returns.
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Weaver looks like it’s going to come in well above forecast p75 to p90 right now it’s tracking.
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PSC Update From DFO
The Fraser Panel met today for their normally scheduled meeting.
The accounted run to date of Fraser Sockeye is 3,375,300 and the in-season adopted run size is 5,544,000 (pre-season expectation at the p50 was 9,775,000).
Summers are tracking below the p50 through Mission but are projected to increase to above the p50.
The Late runs are tracking the p10 through Mission and are projected to increase closer to the p50. The Gulf Troll test fishery began today and will provide some information on what proportion of Lates are holding.
Area 12 test fishery catch yesterday was 107 while Area 20 catch was a season record of 7,825. As a result, diversion has decreased to 20%.
Note that the Area 13 test fishery ended early to circumvent further program costs, though there are reports that numbers are declining through Area 13 as well.
Last week, Canada did not agree to the PSC recommended run sizes of 4.4M for Summers and 2M for Lates, but because the US adopted the run size recommendations (only one country has to agree to the recommended run sizes), the run sizes were ultimately adopted by the Panel.
Those run sizes supported US fishery proposals for a Treaty Tribal and an All Citizens fishery as there was TAC available.
Yesterday, the PSC recommended reduced run sizes of 3.5M for Summers and 1.2M for Lates, which was adopted by the Panel.
At these new run sizes, the US is well over their share for Late run Sockeye and the remaining balance for Late run catch for both countries at this run size is about -29k.
There is some CCTAC for Summer run Sockeye, but we cannot access that group without having an impact on Lates. There is a Low Abundance Exploitation Rate (LAER) of 20% for Lates and there is no room for impacts left in that 20% LAER.
We will see what Friday brings with some more information from the Gulf Troll test fishery and a few more days of catches through the seine test fisheries.
https://ufawu-unifor.org/news/ufawu-unifor-bulletin-psc-update-from-dfo-media-political-engagement/ (https://ufawu-unifor.org/news/ufawu-unifor-bulletin-psc-update-from-dfo-media-political-engagement/)
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PSC Update From DFO
The Fraser Panel met today for their normally scheduled meeting.
The accounted run to date of Fraser Sockeye is 3,375,300 and the in-season adopted run size is 5,544,000 (pre-season expectation at the p50 was 9,775,000).
Summers are tracking below the p50 through Mission but are projected to increase to above the p50.
The Late runs are tracking the p10 through Mission and are projected to increase closer to the p50. The Gulf Troll test fishery began today and will provide some information on what proportion of Lates are holding.
Area 12 test fishery catch yesterday was 107 while Area 20 catch was a season record of 7,825. As a result, diversion has decreased to 20%.
Note that the Area 13 test fishery ended early to circumvent further program costs, though there are reports that numbers are declining through Area 13 as well.
Last week, Canada did not agree to the PSC recommended run sizes of 4.4M for Summers and 2M for Lates, but because the US adopted the run size recommendations (only one country has to agree to the recommended run sizes), the run sizes were ultimately adopted by the Panel.
Those run sizes supported US fishery proposals for a Treaty Tribal and an All Citizens fishery as there was TAC available.
Yesterday, the PSC recommended reduced run sizes of 3.5M for Summers and 1.2M for Lates, which was adopted by the Panel.
At these new run sizes, the US is well over their share for Late run Sockeye and the remaining balance for Late run catch for both countries at this run size is about -29k.
There is some CCTAC for Summer run Sockeye, but we cannot access that group without having an impact on Lates. There is a Low Abundance Exploitation Rate (LAER) of 20% for Lates and there is no room for impacts left in that 20% LAER.
We will see what Friday brings with some more information from the Gulf Troll test fishery and a few more days of catches through the seine test fisheries.
https://ufawu-unifor.org/news/ufawu-unifor-bulletin-psc-update-from-dfo-media-political-engagement/ (https://ufawu-unifor.org/news/ufawu-unifor-bulletin-psc-update-from-dfo-media-political-engagement/)
are we at the point where we can conclude there will be no opening?
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are we at the point where we can conclude there will be no opening?
(https://www.soundandvision.com/images/styles/600_wide/public/090914_Signals_promo.png)
Yep
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are we at the point where we can conclude there will be no opening?
There is 550k Tac for the summer run for commercial/REC, However its being constrained by the late run, The Americans basically over fished the Late run and now there is No TAC for Canada to fish.
If more late come it could increase the TAC but then the summer run may be well into the River by then.
So the answer is we probably won't get an opening but there is still a chance but pretty unlikely at this point.
Its possible we could even see FSC get shut down as we have used up the 20% incidental TAC for the Lates.
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Their will be no opening. Its best for all of us but most including the sockeye!!!
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There is 550k Tac for the summer run for commercial/REC, However its being constrained by the late run, The Americans basically over fished the Late run and now there is No TAC for Canada to fish.
If more late come it could increase the TAC but then the summer run may be well into the River by then.
So the answer is we probably won't get an opening but there is still a chance but pretty unlikely at this point.
Its possible we could even see FSC get shut down as we have used up the 20% incidental TAC for the Lates.
LOL. You should go into politics. Covered all the possible outcomes and committed to none. Its like the weather channel saying its going to being sunny, cloudy, with a chance of rain or wet snow.
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There is 550k Tac for the summer run for commercial/REC, However its being constrained by the late run, The Americans basically over fished the Late run and now there is No TAC for Canada to fish.
If more late come it could increase the TAC but then the summer run may be well into the River by then.
So the answer is we probably won't get an opening but there is still a chance but pretty unlikely at this point.
Its possible we could even see FSC get shut down as we have used up the 20% incidental TAC for the Lates.
Really sucks that the actions of others before me have led us to this point. To think we used to have returns of 30 million fish boggles my mind, and 20,000 steelhead in the thompson... Compared to 40 today. I hope in the future I get a chance to make a difference
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No openings? There has been an opening for months. For one group only. The fish dumping has already began.
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No openings? There has been an opening for months. For one group only. The fish dumping has already began.
I heard they have ran out of freezer space, it’s basically just a sale fishery now.
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LOL. You should go into politics. Covered all the possible outcomes and committed to none. Its like the weather channel saying its going to being sunny, cloudy, with a chance of rain or wet snow.
They have committed to one, it’s closed to non native Canadians.
It’s a sham to call it an FSC fishery at this point
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Ah the usual racially derogatory slurs!
It's a communal opening with an allowance for sales.
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Ah the usual racially derogatory slurs!
It's a communal opening with an allowance for sales.
See even you think they can sell fish, at the meeting on Wednesday we were strictly told on the conditions of licence it states sales of any fsc caught fish is forbidden.
Dean werk asked like 5 times about it because off all the fish for sale everywhere. He said the bands have no use for FSC fish at this point and it’s all going to market.
Ask is it legal to buy or sell these fish because basically it’s a commercial fishery at this point.
Department response was it’s very much illegal
Hate to say it but all this has created some real frustration in the community even amping Thoes who have spent the last decade trying to repair Thoes bonds.
Truly sad
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See even you think they can sell fish, at the meeting on Wednesday we were strictly told on the conditions of licence it states sales of any fsc caught fish is forbidden.
Dean werk asked like 5 times about it because off all the fish for sale everywhere. He said the bands have no use for FSC fish at this point and it’s all going to market.
Ask is it legal to buy or sell these fish because basically it’s a commercial fishery at this point.
Department response was it’s very much illegal
Hate to say it but all this has created some real frustration in the community even amping Thoes who have spent the last decade trying to repair Thoes bonds.
Truly sad
when something is illegal but still happens all the time with no punishment there is no point of the law being there in the first place, like in prohibition. Either start punishing those breaking the rules or drop them
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when something is illegal but still happens all the time with no punishment there is no point of the law being there in the first place, like in prohibition. Either start punishing those breaking the rules or drop them
That was basically the point just make it legal because it’s not fsc and clearly there is already enough catch to support fsc need:
The muddledd response to that was
Well there is still some bands in n the interior that have not got many fish and still have fsc needs.
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Fishery Notice
Category(s):
ABORIGINAL - General Information
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Gill Net
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Seine
COMMERCIAL - Salmon: Troll
RECREATIONAL - Salmon
Subject:
FN0937-Salmon - Sockeye - Areas 11 to 29 - Fraser River Sockeye Update - August 23, 2022
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=264265&ID=all
First Nations food, social and ceremonial (FSC), Treaty domestic and Five Nations communal sale fisheries in the marine area and First Nations FSC and Treaty domestic fisheries in the Fraser River are underway.
the following are examples of what are racially slurs in my opinion:
It’s a sham to call it an FSC fishery at this point
I heard they have ran out of freezer space, it’s basically just a sale fishery now.
There has been an opening for months. For one group only. The fish dumping has already began
.
If they haven't fished their share then they get to fish. If there are infractions and illegal fishing and sales then those have to be individualily investigated. The rule of law and natural justice applies. Smearing FNs generally like above is racially motivated, smacks of mob rule & the usual attack on their fishing rights that has been going on for a century and a half. Each year DFO enforcement seizes hundreds of pieces of illegal gear and lays charges when necessary. most of the bands also control their fishing activities and in many cases only 1 or 2 members are authorized to fish. The bands then distribute fish to members who live both on or off. You guys know this yet there seems to be an implication that all FSC fishing is illegal. Most of the FNs who are given an allocation of fish, don't fish, may not want or have a use for all of the fish they and possibly naive enough to sell them. In the past Craig's List postings listing salmon for sale have been hoaxes! DFO monitors such markets. Hopefully they shut the illegal ones down. Did you and Mr Werk ask those questions at the last meeting with DFO?
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Wow
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Wow
x2
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I've sent emails to a few of the current Craigslist postings. For some reason when you ask about the legal status of the fish, they stop responding. ::)
Whether they're an actual person trying to sell excess fish, or they're a DFO agent on a sting operation, I can't say for sure.
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Wow
x 3
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Wow
X4
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There are bad actors in all sectors of the fishery. First Nations, Commies and Recs. What about all the rec fishers keeping wild fish, keeping over their limit, drop kicking fish back into the river, and keeping snagged fish? Only a fraction of them are caught.
The sense of entitlement here is nauseating. Sockeye were never considered a sport fish in the past but we were allowed to fish them if there was sufficient surplus as a privilege. Yet we constantly bring up the FSC fishery as an excuse to b$%ch and complain if we don’t get our way with some comments bordering on racist.
Frankly I’m glad it’s closed for the rec sector. This means no commercial openings as well which means less risk for stocks of concern like interior coho and Thompson Steelhead.
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I'm not seeing any allowance for sales fisheries here Ralph do you have some insider knowledge? Five nations fishery is unrelated to this thread.
Current week https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/PDFs/EconomicOpportunityOpeningTimes.pdf (https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/PDFs/EconomicOpportunityOpeningTimes.pdf)
Previous weeks https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/PDFs/EconomicOpportunityOpeningTimes_Previous.pdf (https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/PDFs/EconomicOpportunityOpeningTimes_Previous.pdf)
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We need to engage everyone. I might want to catch a fish to eat tonight. Someone else might need to catch a few more to feed there family all winter. Some may also need to catch a few to sell to have some money.
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Three Fraser River sockeye salmon recreational openings have been issued for the interior region.
Region 3 Fraser River near Lillooet:
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=264463&ID=all
Horsefly Bay on Quesnel Lake:
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=264467&ID=all
Nechako River in Prince George:
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=264471&ID=all
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Three Fraser River sockeye salmon recreational openings have been issued for the interior region.
Region 3 Fraser River near Lillooet:
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=264463&ID=all
Horsefly Bay on Quesnel Lake:
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=264467&ID=all
Nechako River in Prince George:
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=264471&ID=all
summer run TAC good to see they are trying to create some opportunities
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all above the confluence with the Thompson!
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I'm not seeing any allowance for sales fisheries here Ralph do you have some insider knowledge? Five nations fishery is unrelated to this thread.
well that's fair enough though it was clearly mentioned in the DFO update and Fraser sockeye may have and likely were captured in the Five Nations fishery.
One thing I didn't mention is the Donald Marshal precedent from R vs Marshall case where he was acquitted by the SCOC (1999) of fishing eels out of season in Nova Scotia. Amongst the courts finding was that FNs in that jurisdiction can "in limited quantities to “obtain necessaries” as a “moderate livelihood.” Marshall was supporting himself and his family, not operating a large-scale commercial fishery." While the precedent does not to knowledge apply in BC it has been used in BC courts to determine if FNs charged for selling salmon can be acquitted on the basis of having done so to obtain a moderate livelihood." Judges have applied the precedent but rejected it's application as the income earned was more than that test allowed - interpreted to be be less than $10,000. If they ever do apply it it will apply in BC providing it is upheld by higher courts. So does DFO and/or Crown Counsel apply that precedent as a guide in issuing charges and how?
I've also looked at postings for sockeye(and chinook) salmon for sale on Craig's List in the last few days. It was never more than 5 to 6 ads in any day I examined in the Lm/FV so certainly not evidence of any wide spread sale of FSC salmon being sold illegally. There's really no solid evidence of any widespread abuse of the communal FSC fishery that I can find and most seems to be more hearsay or highly subjective.
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all above the confluence with the Thompson!
how is the condition of the fish at that point in the river
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Smearing FNs generally like above is racially motivated, smacks of mob rule & the usual attack on their fishing rights that has been going on for a century and a half. [...] You guys know this yet there seems to be an implication that all FSC fishing is illegal.
Thanks for putting it out there Ralph. I agree with the sentiment but hesitate to get involved and argue about it online. I'm sure there are plenty of others who also agree despite the negative posts being more numerous.
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I've sent emails to a few of the current Craigslist postings. For some reason when you ask about the legal status of the fish, they stop responding. ::)
Whether they're an actual person trying to sell excess fish, or they're a DFO agent on a sting operation, I can't say for sure.
I have asked the same questions on Facebook when I see sockeye for sale. I am immediately block. All sellers I ask are of indigenous decent.
DFO is either overwhelmed by the volume or turning a blind eye imo.
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how is the condition of the fish at that point in the river
They are only two weeks older than Chilliwack caught fish and still good. Saw a bunch of sockeye on the Thompson at Ashcroft recently and they were very nice looking fish.
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They have committed to one, it’s closed to non native Canadians.
It’s a sham to call it an FSC fishery at this point
FSC now stands for Food, Social & Commercial. The ceremonial word left weeks ago.
I have zero issue with First Nations food fishing but with there being approximately 200,000 indigenous people in all of BC
https://www.welcomebc.ca/Choose-B-C/Explore-British-Columbia/B-C-First-Nations-Indigenous-People
How many fish can one eat? 400,000 plus sockeye out of the Fraser so far, how many more thousands from the skeena & somass river systems? Then add on the Chinook, coho, pink, and chum salmon that have and will be caught province wide and either a pile of fsc fish are sold or they are wasted.
Catch all the food social and ceremonial fish one wants, just be open about where they are truly going and what’s happening to them.
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I have asked the same questions on Facebook when I see sockeye for sale. I am immediately block. All sellers I ask are of indigenous decent.
DFO is either overwhelmed by the volume or turning a blind eye imo.
I just checked on Facebook market place and there were no adverts for sockeye salmon for sale within 100 km of where I live which is in the middle of the GVRD. As I said above checking on Craigslist over the last week I never once saw more than 7 or 8 for the LM FV area.
DFO may well be ignoring these complaints because it's isn't that widespread an issue and is being greatly exaggerated.
BTW if people think this is illegal they should report it to DFO and to Craigslist and or Facebook. Tell them selling FSC salmon is illegal and that ads should be removed.
I know FNs sell salmon from FSC fisheries. Mostly it gets done through personal networks. It's been going on for generations and there is a huge amount of hypocrisy about this is the non FN community. I have in laws who have lived in Chilliwack for a very long time. Some will gone on about the FNs privileged and their abuse of their food fishing right yet when I mention fishing for sockeye or any salmon they just say they can buy all the salmon they need from 'their friends on the rez' ... go figure.
All sellers I ask are of indigenous decent.
At least they are nice people. :D
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BTW if people think this is illegal they should report it to DFO and to Craigslist and or Facebook. Tell them selling FSC salmon is illegal and that ads should be removed.
Where I come from, snitches get stitches. ;) All kidding aside, though, it’s not my business what other folks are doing. Who knows what their situation is.
To be honest, if there were a legal way to buy from FN folks, I’d almost certainly do that.
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how is the condition of the fish at that point in the river
they will red or dark but still tasty. Big issue you would have is where to fish & catching fish. I have heard from people who fished the canyon back in the day to get away from crowds such as at the Scale Bar. They couldn't find places to "properly" floss. Everywhere was too deep, too fast or snaggy. Maybe try calling a sport shop up there.
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I just checked on Facebook market place and there were no adverts for sockeye salmon for sale within 100 km of where I live which is in the middle of the GVRD. As I said above checking on Craigslist over the last week I never once saw more than 7 or 8 for the LM FV area.
DFO may well be ignoring these complaints because it's isn't that widespread an issue and is being greatly exaggerated.
BTW if people think this is illegal they should report it to DFO and to Craigslist and or Facebook. Tell them selling FSC salmon is illegal and that ads should be removed.
I know FNs sell salmon from FSC fisheries. Mostly it gets done through personal networks. It's been going on for generations and there is a huge amount of hypocrisy about this is the non FN community. I have in laws who have lived in Chilliwack for a very long time. Some will gone on about the FNs privileged and their abuse of their food fishing right yet when I mention fishing for sockeye or any salmon they just say they can buy all the salmon they need from 'their friends on the rez' ... go figure.
At least they are nice people. :D
Looking in the wrong places on Facebook. I didn’t look on marketplace but the regional community groups that the sellers are on. If you don’t belong you don’t see.
Never said they are not nice people.
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Looking in the wrong places on Facebook. I didn’t look on marketplace but the regional community groups that the sellers are on. If you don’t belong you don’t see.
Never said they are not nice people.
sorry you spelled descent as in I am descended from my grandfather as decent as in respectable or having solid values. It was a small joke.
Thanks for clarifying where you are seeing these sockeye ads - feel free to notify Facebook or the group administrators if you are so concerned!
Have a nice day
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Early this week, I was invited to attend Sumas First Nation's salmon ceremony.
(https://i.imgur.com/AH1jfkp.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/K8iEgYS.jpg)
It really was an honour to be there. These opportunities give me a chance to learn more about traditional fishing values and their importance to the community.
Yesterday I was standing in the bush near Hope photographing a pile of dead sockeye salmon. New video tomorrow about it btw.
(https://i.imgur.com/dD2Umrl.jpg)
Two very different outcomes. There are goods and bads. The bads need to be pointed out and dealt with, but don't paint the entire group of people based on the behaviours of a few bad individuals. We also need to recognize the goods from each other, it's in our best interest to do so.
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Early this week, I was invited to attend Sumas First Nation's salmon ceremony.
(https://i.imgur.com/AH1jfkp.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/K8iEgYS.jpg)
It really was an honour to be there. These opportunities give me a chance to learn more about traditional fishing values and their importance to the community.
Yesterday I was standing in the bush near Hope photographing a pile of dead sockeye salmon. New video tomorrow about it btw.
(https://i.imgur.com/dD2Umrl.jpg)
Two very different outcomes. There are goods and bads. The bads need to be pointed out and dealt with, but don't paint the entire group of people based on the behaviours of a few bad individuals. We also need to recognize the goods from each other, it's in our best interest to do so.
I used to take this view before Rod. But enough is enough. It isn't just a few bad apples. If they truly cared then they wouldn't allow this crap to continue or atleast acknowledge it and combat it. Us recreational fisherman have been screwed over for to long. Let's talk about the chinook. We have been shut down all way to September 1st to protect the chinook? Yet we watch Gill nets in the river while we remain closed. 400000 sockeye reported so far by one group which we know is way less than the actual catch. Then zero for the other? Sorry man its to far gone to take a diplomatic approach. Liberal voter is turning conservative. Time to bring the fairness back to the fishery. Time for some enforcement. Funny in the end conservatives will probably bring cuts to dfo and not be anywhere close to the the libs on reconciliation. So keep pissing everyone off. Lots to lose isn't there.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQJsUwq7Qtg
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Thanks for sharing Rod. The video is heartbreaking
Fully agree with the sentiment of not blaming an entire group for the actions of a few. To me that video is no different from those of our peers that snag and retain chum from the Stave (seen with my own eyes last year and reported to DFO btw) or those that use treble hooks at the Capilano or the Vedder which unfortunately is not an uncommon occurrence as I keep pulling out trebles and unbarbed hooks every year from snags at both of the systems at certain pools.
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Sorry totally disagree. These issues stem from the leadership down. If the chiefs and the delegates at the table truly gave a damn they would implement thier own rules and laws around ceremonial fishing. Illigal sales of salmon and then enforce it. The realty is this is what they fight for and want. The right to all the salmon for themselves and to do with it as they please. The main agenda selling it in an illigal commercial fishery. Call it what it is instead of hiding it.
What ambassador of the land would allow a million salmon to be taken from the river in indiscriminate Gill nets when dfo is saying the numbers are low? Meanwhile sit back and watch the dump sights of rotting salmon pile up. Along with the sick pictures of rouge Gill nets being left behind to kill anything and everything juvenile sturgeon to boot.
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Looking in the wrong places on Facebook. I didn’t look on marketplace but the regional community groups that the sellers are on. If you don’t belong you don’t see.
Never said they are not nice people.
I joined a few of these buy/sell groups, had a look and some other open community buy/sell groups. Going back 3 to 4 week there are few to no sockeye for sale adverts, certainly less than on Craigslist.
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What ambassador of the land would allow a million salmon to be taken from the river in indiscriminate Gill nets when dfo is staring the numbers are low? Meanwhile sit back and watch the dump sights of rotting salmon pile up. Along with the sick pictures of rouge Gill nets being left behind to kill anything and everything juvenile sturgeon to boot.
what BS. The total number of sockeye to date is a fraction of that number.
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what BS. The total number of sockeye to date is a fraction of that number.
Not true bud. Every year fsc openings or not. Do you truly think the number reported is a true objective number? Not a chance! These fish are being Gill netted into extinction.
Check out this one...king of the fraser article. I have no doubt these operations are still going full on. Adds online are only a fraction of what is out there. Advertising an illigal fishery. Sure you will find it online. There is no doubt many operations from small to the big guy. Black market salmon sales. From out of the back of a truck to restraunts big cold storage shipping internationally even.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/british-columbia/no-one-followed-the-bc-black-market-salmon/article625576/
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They testified that in one investigation they found 345,000 FSC salmon stored in industrial freezers, and that they believed 97 per cent of all FSC fish are sold illegally into the market, not distributed to native people, as intended.
Read the above link to the article. Might change your mind a bit on what is truly going on.
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what BS. The total number of sockeye to date is a fraction of that number.
A million may be too large a number but do you really think that every sockeye caught is reported anywhere close to accurately?
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A million may be too large a number but do you really think that every sockeye caught is reported anywhere close to accurately?
I think a million is a low estimate.
Chinook. Sockeye chum coho. Steelhead sturgeon.
Infact I saw a chart that showed the allotment for fn fisheries and it was 1.5 million total of salmon species. I am just trying to find it I will post when I do find it.
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When your working a job in Edmonton Alberta and one of your co-workers asks you if u want to buy some Fraser river sockeye you know there’s a problem.
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When your working a job in Edmonton Alberta and one of your co-workers asks you if u want to buy some Fraser river sockeye you know there’s a problem.
is this from personal experience?
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Not true bud. Every year fsc openings or not. Do you truly think the number reported is a true objective number? Not a chance! These fish are being Gill netted into extinction.
Check out this one...king of the fraser article. I have no doubt these operations are still going full on. Adds online are only a fraction of what is out there. Advertising an illigal fishery. Sure you will find it online. There is no doubt many operations from small to the big guy. Black market salmon sales. From out of the back of a truck to restraunts big cold storage shipping internationally even.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/british-columbia/no-one-followed-the-bc-black-market-salmon/article625576/
nice try... an article from 11 years ago. sheesh
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQJsUwq7Qtg
You are right that is bad if only for the sight and smell. OTOH it simply enables the FN bashers and sets aside the enormous hypocrisy in our society. Our society that wastes over an estimated 50 million tons of food annually. That is Canada where 58% of food produced is wasted or lost. The application of best before dates wastes an estimated 2+ million tons. Each single family home discards over 200kg of food annually. Let's not start on the commercially fishing industry where the waste is a travesty despite efforts to improve the situation.
sources:
https://lamerceria.ca/food-waste-canada-statistics/
https://www.ctvnews.ca/lifestyle/canadians-rely-on-best-before-dates-even-if-it-causes-food-waste-study-finds-1.6042271
Your video amounts to fine focus on the hair of a mole of one person while ignoring this massive tumor on the face of our society.
every person in this country can do better.
I hope everyone enjoys their Sunday dinner! We are having sockeye fillet (purchased from a reputable fish store), sweet corn, fresh peas plus potatoes and tomatoes I grew in my garden.
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Late to the party here but , agree that it needs to be addressed internally .
We arent talking about a processed food here that grown commercially
But a wild resource thats being squandered and mismanaged
I just searched craigslist and found 8 ads with pictures .
Several had pictures of full bins with sockeye , even advertising roe and heads
From Surrey to Vancouver .
Fact is recreational fishers arent able to catch these and they certainly arent from Safeway .
This needs to be talked about more
The recreational fishers dont have a chance to catch even 1 of these .
What a farce ...
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Thanks Rod for bringing this topic up. Yes its not positive and Very Political in the First Nations Community as much as it is in the Sport Fishing community. One of the best quotes I have ever heard came from the Haida Nation. The quote is "We don't play with our food!" When I go fishing I only keep what I will eat. One of the biggest reasons sockeye are sold at the side of the road is their is a market for it. I have many times had ppl come up to me bragging about buying sockeye of the road. They tell me its the freshest you can get and that they are supporting the First Nations community. I try to tell them its Illegal and not helping the actual stewards of the Bands but it seems to be to no avail. Hopefully this gets some more attention now.
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nice try... an article from 11 years ago. sheesh
It is an older article and is 100 percent relevant today. The cohen inquiry was not that long ago bud. That guy was not convicted and is most likely still operating today. He isn't the only one. You could publish that same article today nothing has changed. Most news sources are to chicken to write about it. Turn a blind eye like everyone else then.
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You are right that is bad if only for the sight and smell. OTOH it simply enables the FN bashers and sets aside the enormous hypocrisy in our society. Our society that wastes over an estimated 50 million tons of food annually. That is Canada where 58% of food produced is wasted or lost. The application of best before dates wastes an estimated 2+ million tons. Each single family home discards over 200kg of food annually. Let's not start on the commercially fishing industry where the waste is a travesty despite efforts to improve the situation.
sources:
https://lamerceria.ca/food-waste-canada-statistics/
https://www.ctvnews.ca/lifestyle/canadians-rely-on-best-before-dates-even-if-it-causes-food-waste-study-finds-1.6042271
Your video amounts to fine focus on the hair of a mole of one person while ignoring this massive tumor on the face of our society.
every person in this country can do better.
I hope everyone enjoys their Sunday dinner! We are having sockeye fillet (purchased from a reputable fish store), sweet corn, fresh peas plus potatoes and tomatoes I grew in my garden.
What a load of cupcakes.......... The conversation is wasted salmon.. NOT Vegis and milk bought at a grocery store...
I see this one FN guy a couple times a week and he just laughs. In the last month he estimates he has caught 20000 salmon. That is one boat one net and two guys. Now you do the math and tell me at the end of the season that it does not add up to a million fish... In 10 years from now the conversation will be saving the Cultas Lake bass and salmon will be long forgotten.,
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OTOH it simply enables the FN bashers
Here is why no one talks about it Rod, you will be labeled a racist as I was by Ralph or in your case a racist enabler.
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..In 10 years from now the conversation will be saving the Cultas Lake bass and salmon will be long forgotten.,
Speaking of cultus bass, I was thinking wont these bass have plenty of salmon eggs to feed on this year and will tune into it ?? Wont that affect the population of both salmon in a negative way and bass in a positive way?
In Deer lake, theres an explosion of LMB population.... something similar could happen in cultus too
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Cultas lake sockeye are already gone. They won’t come back. How many returned this year that they counted. 60 fish. Anyways…………. Keep up the rants. Bass will eat their own
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Cultas lake sockeye are already gone. They won’t come back. How many returned this year that they counted. 60 fish. Anyways…………. Keep up the rants. Bass will eat their own
Cultus sockeye haven’t even started to return.
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I thought a few have already. they mentioned it last DFO fishing opening report. Unless I miss read. Totally possible haha. But still it’s sad. We used to see them all the time years and years ago on the boat. Anyways I don’t want to sidetrack. Keep ranting 😎
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This is from last panel meeting. 60 was way to much.
The Cultus Lake fence was installed on July 25 and as of August 17, 7 Sockeye have been manually counted through the fence or passively recorded on video.
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is this from personal experience?
When I asked more about it. I was told a refrigerated truck is coming from the Chilliwack area to Edmonton. Some of the guys on my crew put their orders in.
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This is from last panel meeting. 60 was way to much.
The Cultus Lake fence was installed on July 25 and as of August 17, 7 Sockeye have been manually counted through the fence or passively recorded on video.
I guess it’s totally possible. But I’ve also seen chilliwack lake sockeye stray into the hatchery. Pretty well all of the cultus sockeye I’ve caught or seen have been in the last 3 weeks of September
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450k sockeye past mission in the last 3 days. not to bad
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Before we get all depressed about this year's return, does anyone else remember the last time there was no fishery in a peak return year? I think it was 2010? Or 2006? The point is, the run has bounced back before and can do so again.
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Here is why no one talks about it Rod, you will be labeled a racist as I was by Ralph or in your case a racist enabler.
I didn't call anyone a racist or a racist enabler. You are making that up.
the point is why criticize Fns to excess for what is absolutely common and ignored? My comments are about the quality of the journalism.
it's not just veggie stuff. I have for example come across both a dead Holstein cow and a sheep. Most waste ends up in the dumpster and people never see it. Much the same with commercial fishing and rec angling. These doesn't even count the waste from c&r mortality or the by-catch dumped at sea.
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Before we get all depressed about this year's return, does anyone else remember the last time there was no fishery in a peak return year? I think it was 2010? Or 2006? The point is, the run has bounced back before and can do so again.
I only went back to 1990, this year is worse than them all
1990 - 21 mil
1994 - 16.8 mil
1998 - 10.8 mil
2002 - 15.4 mil
2006 - 13 mil
2010 - 28.2 mil
2014 - 18.9 mill
2018 - 11 mill
Edit: Interesting note is 1998 and 2018 have the same estimated return however if you compare the catches of the two, they are not even remotely the same. I am not sure when they started the hydroacoustic program perhaps that's the difference.
https://psc1.shinyapps.io/PSC_In_Season_Fraser/
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I only went back to 1990, this year is worse than them all
1990 - 21 mil
1994 - 16.8 mil
1998 - 10.8 mil
2002 - 15.4 mil
2006 - 13 mil
2010 - 28.2 mil
2014 - 18.9 mill
2018 - 11 mill
Edit: Interesting note is 1998 and 2018 have the same estimated return however if you compare the catches of the two, they are not even remotely the same. I am not sure when they started the hydroacoustic program perhaps that's the difference.
https://psc1.shinyapps.io/PSC_In_Season_Fraser/
It's weird. 2018's hydroacoustic numbers were weirdly steady at around 20,000-60,000 fish per day from around August 27 to mid-September. Not surprised to see 2010's September numbers off the charts, with the number of Lates that year. 2002 had big numbers in that period (just a couple days later than 2010), but 2006 (which had slightly stronger Lates than 2002) had numbers that were comparatively low (like 50,000 compared to 500,000 a day).
If I had to guess, I'd assume that if the current estimates for Lates remain what they are (~1,200,000), that the hydroacoustic numbers for around Labour Day onward would be really low. Lates in 2011 were 1,125,000 (comparable to current estimates), and their numbers were in the 15,000 to 110,000 range a day from now until September 17 of that year.
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I was told they are using new data and formulas to estimate the run sizes. I still think they are under reporting and hiding the numbers from us to allow native only fisheries then make us point fingers at the US openings and each other. True liberal agenda is in truth and reconciliation and we are being used to meet the political agenda. We were never going to get an opening in August ever. Regardless if the run was 5 or 20 million.The native delegates pushed for this for a long time. That is why there is no fishing for chinook until September 1st. For a few years now. It isn't to save the salmon. It is to let the natives Gill net everything and get firsts without giving anyone else the opertunity. It is shitty. I was all for truth and reconciliation. But this isn't how it should go. It creates separation between people. Not bringing them together to reach the goals. Sad as I will be voting different next time. If the conservatives get in. The cuts to both dfo and the reconciliation efforts will come. So greed on one end will have negative consequences unfortunately.
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I would love to see the stats from enforcement of illigal fish sales. I am willing to bet not one person gets fined or charged from the fsc fishery.
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You can download an Excel spreadsheet for this season at the following link:
https://www.psc.org/publications/fraser-panel-in-season-information/fish-passage-past-the-psc-hydroacoustic-counting-station-near-mission-bc/
Looks like they update it daily (or at least very regularly). Current cumulative passage estimate is 3,551,500. For kicks, I added the daily hydroacoustic numbers from 2018 from today's date until around Thanksgiving to the current cumulative passage estimate. So if it tracks 2018 (which we've noted had daily numbers that appear to be lower than previous bumper years), we get to around 5,700,000 fish by Thanksgiving.
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. True liberal agenda is in truth and reconciliation and we are being used to meet the political agenda.
we are not being used but access to fish & game is being used to meet the Truth & Reconciliation agenda of the federal government.
There is no cost to them for giving away access to fish & game. Urban dwellers don't know what's happening and will continue to vote Liberal. Access to Fish & Game will be severely curtailed in the next few years. It's already happened in the hard to get at places. Look how the central coast is closed to fishing crab to everyone except First Nations. You can't hop on a boat in Bella Coola head out into the saltwater and toss a trap down.
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we are not being used but access to fish & game is being used to meet the Truth & Reconciliation agenda of the federal government.
There is no cost to them for giving away access to fish & game. Urban dwellers don't know what's happening and will continue to vote Liberal. Access to Fish & Game will be severely curtailed in the next few years. It's already happened in the hard to get at places. Look how the central coast is closed to fishing crab to everyone except First Nations. You can't hop on a boat in Bella Coola head out into the saltwater and toss a trap down.
How do you figure we are not being used? Lol. Who buys licenses? Who pays taxes? Who doesn't get access to the fisheries anymore? We are not being used? Give your head a shake! Who invested 30 grand in a boat? Gear. Consuming. Supporting tourism I can go on. Where does the money come from?
I could see Canadians having enough this next go around. Don't count your chickens bud. I never thought I would change my mind.
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we are not being used but access to fish & game is being used to meet the Truth & Reconciliation agenda of the federal government.
There is no cost to them for giving away access to fish & game. Urban dwellers don't know what's happening and will continue to vote Liberal. Access to Fish & Game will be severely curtailed in the next few years. It's already happened in the hard to get at places. Look how the central coast is closed to fishing crab to everyone except First Nations. You can't hop on a boat in Bella Coola head out into the saltwater and toss a trap down.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0UobuGc76PYLsWKrCBgtHu4CAWMaJSFJeVqnjP9kZtRq1NzoMzTwrhHu5Cd8zwbL9l&id=517420090
For anyone wondering what the protest is about, the sports fishing boat 'the Parry' has been operating in Heiltsuk Territory all summer and for many, many years. The HIRMD Reached out to the owner of the operation to sign a protocol agreement with the Heiltsuk, which is standard practice for any third-party doing business in Heiltsuk Territory.
The owner of the Parry Has declined to enter into a relationship with the tribe, so members of our elected council, hereditary Chiefs, and membership at large have barricaded the boat, 'the Parry' Inside Dundavin Inlet with gillnets and boats until the owner signs an agreement and stops the disrespectful behaviour that they have shown to our people.
Nobody is going to stand up for our title and rights except us!! We will no longer sit on the sidelines and be pushed around by privileged business owners in our own Territory. Taking things into our own hands. Come support us out there Heiltsuk.
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Anybody have any fishing reports from Lillooet
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Anybody have any fishing reports from Lillooet?
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Check out Pemberton fish finder guiding. Brad Knowles is the owner/operator. Limited out the family of 5 or 6 pretty quickly. Fish look in decent shape
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How do you figure we are not being used? Lol. Who buys licenses? Who pays taxes? Who doesn't get access to the fisheries anymore? We are not being used? Give your head a shake! Who invested 30 grand in a boat? Gear. Consuming. Supporting tourism I can go on. Where does the money come from?
I could see Canadians having enough this next go around. Don't count your chickens bud. I never thought I would change my mind.
We are not being used, you don’t have to buy anything and the federal government doesn’t care about sports fishing because we are not enough votes.
DFO is running a hidden agenda and sports fishing for anything they manage is over for all but one group.
Hope you can change it though. I have seen enough of it over the last 50 years to doubt anyone can change any part of it.
Good luck
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We are not being used, you don’t have to buy anything and the federal government doesn’t care about sports fishing because we are not enough votes.
DFO is running a hidden agenda and sports fishing for anything they manage is over for all but one group.
Hope you can change it though. I have seen enough of it over the last 50 years to doubt anyone can change any part of it.
Good luck
So the optics of saying the dfo has taken action to save the salmon and the killer whales by shutting the rec anglers down for most of the year is not a way to use one group to appease the others. Closing down a good section of the fraser mouth permanently for a whale feeding area? While there is a major shipping lane there and the whales get chased around and harassed everyday anyways? Draconian closures while Gill nets are in the fraser killing the very fish we are shut down to protect? All the while we dump money into the economy and paying our taxes. Buying liscences to not have access to the fishery for line and reel in selective fisheries vs non discriminate Gill netting. Ya you are right not being used at all. A few real nieve people on here with passive opinions. But hey that's your right.
Comes down to politics first. Science and conservation last if at all. Damn rights we are being ignored and used.
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the closure of the banana and other areas in the southern Strait of Georgia is directly due to plummeting returns of Chinook to the Fraser in the spring and summer. Some scientists think the low numbers of salmon are causing a problem for SRKWs which feed heavily on those fish. Most major marine traffic in the Strait also has to adhere to reduced speed limits to reduce noise that may cause problems for marine mammals. I personally saw the Coast Guard chase down a Polish fish boat that exceeded the speed near Little River.
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the closure of the banana and other areas in the southern Strait of Georgia is directly due to plummeting returns of Chinook to the Fraser in the spring and summer. Some scientists think the low numbers of salmon are causing a problem for SRKWs which feed heavily on those fish. Most major marine traffic in the Strait also has to adhere to reduced speed limits to reduce noise that may cause problems for marine mammals. I personally saw the Coast Guard chase down a Polish fish boat that exceeded the speed near Little River.
So Ralph answer this one...why is the rec anglers shut down to save Fraser River salmon when 99 percent of the fish caught upto the summer peak months are not Fraser bound stocks most being healthy US bound fish all the while there are chinook Gill net openings all through the entire closure. What Salmon are the dfo shutting the rec fishery down to save again? Please some objective facts would be nice the fraser stocks are low from the main cause...the damn Gill nets.
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So the optics of saying the dfo has taken action to save the salmon and the killer whales by shutting the rec anglers down for most of the year is not a way to use one group to appease the others. Closing down a good section of the fraser mouth permanently for a whale feeding area? While there is a major shipping lane there and the whales get chased around and harassed everyday anyways? Draconian closures while Gill nets are in the fraser killing the very fish we are shut down to protect? All the while we dump money into the economy and paying our taxes. Buying liscences to not have access to the fishery for line and reel in selective fisheries vs non discriminate Gill netting. Ya you are right not being used at all. A few real nieve people on here with passive opinions. But hey that's your right.
Comes down to politics first. Science and conservation last if at all. Damn rights we are being ignored and used.
I really don't think your are being used at all, but instead screwed. Once again anyone that buys a license to fish a place that is already closed isn't getting it. No one should buy any license until they know the fishery that they want to fish will be open otherwise it's self inflicted pain.
Gill nets in the Fraser we only have our forefathers to blame. They forced them upon First Nations so that's the new tradition.
It does come down to politics first and always will. DFO is a joke and one can look in many different directions and see great failures and down outright lying and deceit by DFO.
Do you really think salmon have a chance when looking locally at squamish chinooks. Shut down in 1978 for retention and 44 years later they have never rebuilt/recovered the run. Toss in the local SFAB trying to get Howe sound opened for some hatchery retention and DFO outright lies why they will not allow it to happen. Coming up with a different story every meeting on why to keep it closed even after their own data shows it's no big deal to allow it to happen.
The mouth of Fraser srkw closure is a joke. The whales show up there sometime in September 1 or 2 times a year for 3-4 hours and it's closed. the whales being harassed and chased down will be the transient population due to different rules for different whales. Still don't agree with it.
I sold my saltwater salmon boat many years ago because I thought i could see the writing on the wall that what we now have (almost nothing) was coming.
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Another strong day of hydroacoustic numbers yesterday. Over 200,000.
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So Ralph answer this one...why is the rec anglers shut down to save Fraser River salmon when 99 percent of the fish caught upto the summer peak months are not Fraser bound stocks most being healthy US bound fish all the while there are chinook Gill net openings all through the entire closure. What Salmon are the dfo shutting the rec fishery down to save again? Please some objective facts would be nice the fraser stocks are low from the main cause...the damn Gill nets.
For a start I am not an expert. Neither are you. I am not sure of your numbers but generally the data collected by anglers confirm the fact most fish are from south of here. It's likely always been that way. The short answer from DFO and other scientists is those early runs are so low that a total closure is needed to get fish into the river. According to Canadian Law FN people also get first shot at what can be harvested. Anglers come last. This is a fact and has been since DFO and the Federal government was stupid enough to force all this through the courts right up to the Supreme Court rather than negotiate something more sensible with FN. Same thing happened in Washington, Oregon & California. Scared the bejeesus out of the Sport and Commercial sectors who pressured the Feds to go to court. That was almost 40 years ago. JT had nothing to do with it. The deal the US states got with their Natives these days since, while the Natives there get a better share, sports and commercial people still get a chance to fish ... if there are enough fish. this BS wouldn't be going on if the Feds had offered the FNs something based on the Boldt precedent in Washington state.
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I really don't think your are being used at all, but instead screwed. Once again anyone that buys a license to fish a place that is already closed isn't getting it. No one should buy any license until they know the fishery that they want to fish will be open otherwise it's self inflicted pain.
Gill nets in the Fraser we only have our forefathers to blame. They forced them upon First Nations so that's the new tradition.
It does come down to politics first and always will. DFO is a joke and one can look in many different directions and see great failures and down outright lying and deceit by DFO.
Do you really think salmon have a chance when looking locally at squamish chinooks. Shut down in 1978 for retention and 44 years later they have never rebuilt/recovered the run. Toss in the local SFAB trying to get Howe sound opened for some hatchery retention and DFO outright lies why they will not allow it to happen. Coming up with a different story every meeting on why to keep it closed even after their own data shows it's no big deal to allow it to happen.
The mouth of Fraser srkw closure is a joke. The whales show up there sometime in September 1 or 2 times a year for 3-4 hours and it's closed. the whales being harassed and chased down will be the transient population due to different rules for different whales. Still don't agree with it.
I sold my saltwater salmon boat many years ago because I thought i could see the writing on the wall that what we now have (almost nothing) was coming.
Being used
It means one person is taking excessively while the other is making all the sacrifices
Screwed over..
To cheat someone, or ruin their chances in a game or other situation.
Hmmmm sounds pretty close. Agree but split hairs over a statement. I don't get the argument 🤷.
Both definitely fit what is happening to the rec sector.
Why argue with that if you are a sport fisherman. The facts are there. We still can't fish for a few sockeye or even a hatchery spring. Go take a look at all those fish getting loaded up and sold and dumped. Sickening.
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I think topics are getting mixed up here. The fact that a very small percentage of FN harvesters may be breaking the rules has nothing to do with the constitutional right that FNs has towards fisheries. We have to remember that in Canada, FNs sit, if not above, at least at the same level as the federal government. You may like this or not but this is what it is and there is nothing that you or even politicians can do about this. I'm an immigrant and I learned this long time ago and personally I'm fine with it that's why I'm never annoyed at these decisions. There are plenty of fishing opportunities in BC with retention open if that's really what you want.
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I think topics are getting mixed up here. The fact that a very small percentage of FN harvesters may be breaking the rules has nothing to do with the constitutional right that FNs has towards fisheries. We have to remember that in Canada, FNs sit, if not above, at least at the same level as the federal government. You may like this or not but this is what it is and there is nothing that you or even politicians can do about this. I'm an immigrant and I learned this long time ago and personally I'm fine with it that's why I'm never annoyed at these decisions. There are plenty of fishing opportunities in BC with retention open if that's really what you want.
Then go buy your sockeye on the side of the road bud. Hopefully you don't get mushy ones.
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Then go buy your sockeye on the side of the road bud. Hopefully you don't get mushy ones.
I actually buy Sockeye fillets at Costco. Good value and hopefully a reputable source. For other species I either catch it myself or if my terrible angling skills don't deliver, I use https://tidetotable.ca - locally sourced and good quality fish. Highly recommended!
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A million may be too large a number but do you really think that every sockeye caught is reported anywhere close to accurately?
Their up to almost 700k reported so a million may not be that far off. Seems like they will probably get pretty close to that milion reported number
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Their up to almost 700k reported so a million may not be that far off. Seems like they will probably get pretty close to that milion reported number
Oh but the late runs are to low to allow a sportfishery and the Gill nets will continue from now until the end of October. Oh did we forget about the early interior coho we have been shut down to protect no bar fishing until November now. Oh Thompson steelhead who cares about those none left to protect anymore mission accomplished. Oh dont forget Japan needs its chum roe. Send it over. But close retention of chum sportfishery as well. I think many are underestimating the full extent of how the fsc fishery is exploited.
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Well, if we limited it to one sockeye per resident of the lower mainland per year that would be what, maybe 2.5 million fish?
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I actually buy Sockeye fillets at Costco. Good value and hopefully a reputable source. For other species I either catch it myself or if my terrible angling skills don't deliver, I use https://tidetotable.ca - locally sourced and good quality fish. Highly recommended!
How much are the Costco fillets?
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How much are the Costco fillets?
I don't recall exact price per lb but I get the frozen portions labelled as Alaskan Sockeye for about $30/bag and there are easily 7-8 portions with skin on. Each portion is about a 1/3 of a entire side fillet if that makes sense. I usually buy 2 bags and that gets my family through in terms of salmon consumption for 6-8 weeks as that's how often we go to Costco. Probably price per pound is significantly cheaper than what it would cost me to get the same amount of fish from the local rivers counting Gas, tackle, time spent, etc. I personally don't fish for the meat even though is a nice treat being able to bring fish home every now and then.
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I don't recall exact price per lb but I get the frozen portions labelled as Alaskan Sockeye for about $30/bag and there are easily 7-8 portions with skin on. Each portion is about a 1/3 of a entire side fillet if that makes sense. I usually buy 2 bags and that gets my family through in terms of salmon consumption for 6-8 weeks as that's how often we go to Costco. Probably price per pound is significantly cheaper than what it would cost me to get the same amount of fish from the local rivers counting Gas, tackle, time spent, etc. I personally don't fish for the meat even though is a nice treat being able to bring fish home every now and then.
during commercial openings usually can go get gutted rounds for $15-25 a fish down at the albion of the boats as they come in to off load. That's usually how i get my canners, Sad that won't have that opportunity, in 2018 bought 10 for 200 bucks.
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Personally I don't understand why people think buying fish from costco or the docks is any better or worse then buying if from the FN. Certainly the fish don't care who pulls in the nets. I think we should just ban nets. If you want to eat a sockeye you should have to go out and catch it yourself. Removing the cash from the equation would solve everything.
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Personally I don't understand why people think buying fish from costco or the docks is any better or worse then buying if from the FN. Certainly the fish don't care who pulls in the nets. I think we should just ban nets. If you want to eat a sockeye you should have to go out and catch it yourself. Removing the cash from the equation would solve everything.
all your doing is transferring the cash from one industry to the other.
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I don't recall exact price per lb but I get the frozen portions labelled as Alaskan Sockeye for about $30/bag and there are easily 7-8 portions with skin on. Each portion is about a 1/3 of a entire side fillet if that makes sense. I usually buy 2 bags and that gets my family through in terms of salmon consumption for 6-8 weeks as that's how often we go to Costco. Probably price per pound is significantly cheaper than what it would cost me to get the same amount of fish from the local rivers counting Gas, tackle, time spent, etc. I personally don't fish for the meat even though is a nice treat being able to bring fish home every now and then.
Yeah that’s not terrible. It kills me to buy like that though. Growing up, we were spoiled to have freezers full of sockeye. I didn’t know how good we had it back then. :-\
I may look into those Costco bags. Thank you.
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all your doing is transferring the cash from one industry to the other.
Oh and Costco needs that money far more than any Fn person... we all know how hard up they are!
this is all FNs really wanted - a chance to earn some money off a resource that is theirs rather than Jimmy Pattison.
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So the salmon belong to the FN? I think not. Next you are going to say the FN own the air and the sun and the rain.
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So the salmon belong to the FN? I think not. Next you are going to say the FN own the air and the sun and the rain.
I said it's theirs. Do they not have a right to exploit it? If you think not you have missed something pretty significant. BC's oil may belong to the Province but the people who locate it and get it out of the ground get much of the benefit for it.
BTW in economics sunlight and air are known as ubiquitous resources. They are freely available in for practical purposes, unlimited supply to who ever wants them for no charge. Do fish meet this definition?
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Ya exploit is exactly the word. When did the grand tradition of FSC become exploit? Ban the nets for every user group.
I see you left out rain. Good thing we didn't give them the right to drink as much water as they wanted to in the treaties or the rest of us would be dying of thirst. Or buying it on the side of the road.
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Sitting in a Chilliwack pub this afternoon enjoying a cold one. Some sketchy looking dude came in to the pub and went from table to table asking to sell fresh sockeye. I told him to beat it. A couple of the bar patrons did go outside with him to buy.
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I said it's theirs. Do they not have a right to exploit it? If you think not you have missed something pretty significant. BC's oil may belong to the Province but the people who locate it and get it out of the ground get much of the benefit for it.
BTW in economics sunlight and air are known as ubiquitous resources. They are freely available in for practical purposes, unlimited supply to who ever wants them for no charge. Do fish meet this definition?
.
OMG. Blah Blah Blah... You are exhausting.
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OMG. Blah Blah Blah... You are exhausting.
X2
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Oh and Costco needs that money far more than any Fn person... we all know how hard up they are!
this is all FNs really wanted - a chance to earn some money off a resource that is theirs rather than Jimmy Pattison.
What are you talking about I was talking about how shutting down commercial fisheries because they use nets for recreational fisheries. Only transfers money from the commercial industry to rec fishing industry.
It was in response to this post
“If you want to eat a sockeye you should have to go out and catch it yourself. Removing the cash from the equation would solve everything.”
Also I have no issue with First Nations selling fish I would buy off them if it was legal in fact get rid of fsc fishing all together and let them sell or keep. A dead fish is a dead fish. I do find it interesting tho when they lobby to increase their fsc need on Fraser fish from 1 mill to 1.25 million if they have a desire to sell fish why lobby for more fsc.
There has already been over a million Fraser river sockeye harvested I think they could of found some opportunities for the Rec fishermen and commercial fishery.
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OMG. Blah Blah Blah... You are exhausting.
He probably hears this from his wife a lot LOL!
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Sitting in a Chilliwack pub this afternoon enjoying a cold one. Some sketchy looking dude came in to the pub and went from table to table asking to sell fresh sockeye. I told him to beat it. A couple of the bar patrons did go outside with him to buy.
:-\ sad to hear.. You know to me it makes more sense for first nations to sell fish than big organizations like costco. But I have a huge problem when I can't go out myself and catch even two a day.
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:-\ sad to hear.. You know to me it makes more sense for first nations to sell fish than big organizations like costco. But I have a huge problem when I can't go out myself and catch even two a day.
Costco buys fish from, sea food distributors who in turn buy fish off commercial fishermen, man who are owner operators.
First Nations also tap into this network when they have economic openings.
Many of the First Nation caught sockeye in port alberni where they have decided that they want more sale fish then fsc fish end up at places like saint jeans, where they get processed and sold
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He probably hears this from his wife a lot LOL!
Rude. We may not agree on salmon policy in this thread but personal attacks are uncalled for :-[
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Data is provided only up to 2009
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/48350160/fraser-river-sockeye-fisheries-and-fisheries-management-cohen-
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Rude. We may not agree on salmon policy in this thread but personal attacks are uncalled for :-[
I saw this coming. These folks aren't capable of anything else once they have exhausted their small pool of exaggerated complaints & falsehoods. But thanks just the same.
and the guy who called me exhausting? Hilarious! Poor man, whines for hours because he can't catch a sockeye but I am exhausting. ROTFLMAO!
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What are you talking about I was talking about how shutting down commercial fisheries because they use nets for recreational fisheries. Only transfers money from the commercial industry to rec fishing industry.
It was in response to this post
“If you want to eat a sockeye you should have to go out and catch it yourself. Removing the cash from the equation would solve everything.”
Also I have no issue with First Nations selling fish I would buy off them if it was legal in fact get rid of fsc fishing all together and let them sell or keep. A dead fish is a dead fish. I do find it interesting tho when they lobby to increase their fsc need on Fraser fish from 1 mill to 1.25 million if they have a desire to sell fish why lobby for more fsc.
There has already been over a million Fraser river sockeye harvested I think they could of found some opportunities for the Rec fishermen and commercial fishery.
it was follow the money. Who ultimately gets the money from sales by Costco or from Save On? Costco is a US company. most of what they sell here does not come from BC. The O/Os in the Alaskan Fishery are mostly not even Alaskan. Most of the boats are based in Seattle. Jimmy Pattison is a billionaire. The commercial salmon industry is near dead, it's on life support and we are all waiting for the plug to be pulled. Even the salmon farming industry will disappear. within a generation. The salmon we eat will be grown in vats in high tech factories. It is being done in labs already.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/august-20-best-of-quirks-quarks-feeding-the-future-1.6364707
The only real fish will be what we catch ourselves or buy from traditional societies like FNs.
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:-\ sad to hear.. You know to me it makes more sense for first nations to sell fish than big organizations like costco. But I have a huge problem when I can't go out myself and catch even two a day.
We sit on the sidelines all the while a huge pile of sockeye lays rotting away in the bush and individuals go around selling their catch in the pubs.
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We sit on the sidelines all the while a huge pile of sockeye lays rotting away in the bush and individuals go around selling their catch in the pubs.
I think rod said it was 20 fish but a few days on the net and it grows to a huge pile. ::)
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We sit on the sidelines all the while a huge pile of sockeye lays rotting away in the bush and individuals go around selling their catch in the pubs.
It’s every where
Maple Ridge Central Neighbours
) Courtney Frostad • 2d • 0
Hello friends!! Is anyone interested in FR3SH!!
sockeye salmon!! My grandmother lives on
Katzie First Nation in Pitt Meadows & they
recently had an opening for set netting and
caught a whole lot of fishys. If anyone is
interested !!!
20$ per fish
15$ if you buy more than 10
30$ each if you want it or (them) fillet.
Great size & condition see pictures below for
an idea:) if interested please dm me thanks
again !!
- in Pitt Meadows, British Columbia
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I don't recall exact price per lb but I get the frozen portions labelled as Alaskan Sockeye for about $30/bag and there are easily 7-8 portions with skin on. Each portion is about a 1/3 of a entire side fillet if that makes sense. I usually buy 2 bags and that gets my family through in terms of salmon consumption for 6-8 weeks as that's how often we go to Costco. Probably price per pound is significantly cheaper than what it would cost me to get the same amount of fish from the local rivers counting Gas, tackle, time spent, etc. I personally don't fish for the meat even though is a nice treat being able to bring fish home every now and then.
Checked out Costco on my morning travels. The bags we were chatting about are around 1.36kg and sell for $47. They have similar sized bags of "wild pink salmon" for $18. "Product of China" on the back, which I found interesting.
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...and I'm sure the Costco sockeye was labelled "Product of Canada", caught in Alaska ;)
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So that costco fish was frozen sockeye for $47 for 1.36 kg or $34.55 /kg
I saw fresh sockeye in the store yesterday for $69.97/kg the packaging says Copper River. But the www.copperriversalmon.org says the copper river sockeye season is May, June July. How can this fish be fresh here at the end of August? Wonder if its from where it says it is? I can upload the picture but not quite sure how.
My apologies if I am a little off-topic, but at these retail prices its not surprising to me that some groups are selling this on the side of the road or wherever, its makes for easy (big) money. The stuff is like a gold rush.
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So that costco fish was frozen sockeye for $47 for 1.36 kg or $34.55 /kg
I saw fresh sockeye in the store yesterday for $69.97/kg the packaging says Copper River. But the www.copperriversalmon.org says the copper river sockeye season is May, June July. How can this fish be fresh here at the end of August? Wonder if its from where it says it is? I can upload the picture but not quite sure how.
My apologies if I am a little off-topic, but at these retail prices its not surprising to me that some groups are selling this on the side of the road or wherever, its makes for easy (big) money. The stuff is like a gold rush.
That's correct about the bags of frozen Alaskan sockeye. Can't speak for anything marked Copper River, but the Costco I was at had fresh (never frozen - I checked with the department manager) sockeye for around $36/kg. I did something today that I never thought I'd do, which is buy a few kilos of those, cut each side into four pieces, vacuum sealed and put in the freezer for next few months. Should be about six meals worth for a family our size.
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I think rod said it was 20 fish but a few days on the net and it grows to a huge pile. ::)
Not taking sides on this but for what it's worth years ago I have personally seen on several different occasions, several piles of rotting sox in the Harrison/Chehalis reserve areas (north side of the river) where some run their boats out of.....so if one is of the belief that this practice is not widespread at the very least then they need to get their head out of the sand...Rod's observation is highly unlikely an isolated incidence and you can take that to the bank.....that said maybe they should be able to sell roadside, legally????...you know, more competition equals lower prices since there is no recreational.....I think there would be a huge market regardless of potential risks, just don't make sushi
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Not taking sides on this but for what it's worth years ago I have personally seen on several different occasions, several piles of rotting sox in the Harrison/Chehalis reserve areas (north side of the river) where some run their boats out of.....so if one is of the belief that this practice is not widespread at the very least then they need to get their head out of the sand...Rod's observation is highly unlikely an isolated incidence and you can take that to the bank.....that said maybe they should be able to sell roadside, legally????...you know, more competition equals lower prices since there is no recreational.....I think there would be a huge market regardless of potential risks, just don't make sushi
where do you think most wild salmon sashimi in chilliwack sushi restaurants is from?
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It's pretty clear that it's a commercial fishery. Some of those guys don't even like eating fish cause they had so much of it when they were growing up. It's what they ate when there was nothing else. The whole idea is to sell it so they can buy beef.
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Here's 30 more, freshly dumped this morning.
(https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/302786611_10160074203520140_8164665453545593794_n.jpg?stp=cp1_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=OTE2ci-tqKYAX_ddsdA&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=00_AT-IkzkXH_1wh_on6VMlOwqgDkTZP9QIPDKYeCHmJuc7Tg&oe=6314418B)
Yeah I know, that's still only 50 fish if we include the other dump I saw... The summer and late summer runs combined is 5.1 million fish, should be ok... :)
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Would making all FN sales legal avoid this waste or will there be even more waste?
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Would making all FN sales legal avoid this waste or will there be even more waste?
Its done down south, seems to be government approved and looks successful
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3IrouDxtTA
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Would making all FN sales legal avoid this waste or will there be even more waste?
They don'tike spending money on ice or have any more space in freezers to store them. So they go bad. Perhaps when you see this combined with fish sales everywhere it's time to shut r down.
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Here's 30 more, freshly dumped this morning.
(https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/302786611_10160074203520140_8164665453545593794_n.jpg?stp=cp1_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=OTE2ci-tqKYAX_ddsdA&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=00_AT-IkzkXH_1wh_on6VMlOwqgDkTZP9QIPDKYeCHmJuc7Tg&oe=6314418B)
Yeah I know, that's still only 50 fish if we include the other dump I saw... The summer and late summer runs combined is 5.1 million fish, should be ok... :)
What a waste of a resource.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/british-columbia/no-one-followed-the-bc-black-market-salmon/article625576/
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I think legalizing FN sales will atleast reduce these sort of dump, they will have an incentive to invest in some cold storage.
Lets work together, fighting will only delay any meaningful resolution, how can somebody like me help here?
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I think legalizing FN sales will atleast reduce these sort of dump, they will have an incentive to invest in some cold storage.
Lets work together, fighting will only delay any meaningful resolution, how can somebody like me help here?
There is no way I would ever support a commercial fishery fn or not if it isn't sustainable or if the recreational angler is left scraps with all the closures. Example all the red springs shut down all summer till Sept 1. Oh you can have at the whites majority of reds gone up. Shut down for conservation on rod and reel to watch them get fished out on Gill nets. Ya piss off with the fish sales. Dfo needs to grow a sack and put a stop to it.
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There is no way I would ever support a commercial fishery fn or not if it isn't sustainable or if the recreational angler is left scraps with all the closures. Example all the red springs shut down all summer till Sept 1. Oh you can have at the whites majority of reds gone up. Shut down for conservation on rod and reel to watch them get fished out on Gill nets. Ya piss off with the fish sales. Dfo needs to grow a sack and put a stop to it.
don 't know where you have been for close to 25 years but commercial FN fisheries have been in place since 1998 as long as surplus TAC has allowed.
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don 't know where you have been for close to 25 years but commercial FN fisheries have been in place since 1998 as long as surplus TAC has allowed.
No cupcakes. Did you read what I said. No way I would support it If conservation concerns aren't met. Which they are not. Also we used to be able to fish through the summer. This window has shrunk over the past 5 years or so to only allow the rec fishery scraps at best. I have watched it go to cupcakes for over 25 years. Cheers.
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No cupcakes. Did you read what I said. No way I would support it If conservation concerns aren't met. ... Cheers.
no that isn't what you said so perhaps you should reread what you wrote "cupcakes"!
It's been in place for over 20 years. It doesn't take place if there is no sufficient TAC to support it and the issue has been to court on the accusation it was a race based fishery and the courts tossed out that claim and affirmed it's legal validity.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/british-columbia/no-one-followed-the-bc-black-market-salmon/article625576/
trying reading the entire discussion as this topic was already brought up. FWIW there was not proof that the events in the article took place or a crime was committed.
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Not taking sides on this but for what it's worth years ago I have personally seen on several different occasions, several piles of rotting sox in the Harrison/Chehalis reserve areas (north side of the river) where some run their boats out of.....so if one is of the belief that this practice is not widespread at the very least then they need to get their head out of the sand...Rod's observation is highly unlikely an isolated incidence and you can take that to the bank.....that said maybe they should be able to sell roadside, legally????...you know, more competition equals lower prices since there is no recreational.....I think there would be a huge market regardless of potential risks, just don't make sushi
since you quoted me as part of your post I will respond.
I did not claim such dumping did or does not take place. I have seen the photos which get posted every summer and create considerable outrage on line particularly
Rather the point i have tried to make is the excessive concern expressed by some members of the angling community has at least some of the characteristics of a known phenomena, a Moral Panic. Some of these characteristics are:
a known group or person which allegedly poses a specific threat to societal values and interests
while the issues that pose the threat may be real they and the threat itself are grossly exaggerated.
Classic examples of moral panic includes the Satanic Panic of the 80s and 90s when over 12,000 people, most often child care workers were investigated for alleged abuse of children during "Satanic Rituals". Virtually none of these allegations were substantiated. Other's include the War on Drugs, the Red Scare of the 1950s and the current so called White Replacement theory.
Anyone who wants to know more, and I sure many of you don't, there is lots of information on line.
I pointed out that food waste is endemic in Canada and I provided sources of which there are many more.. The actual threat posed by salmon dumping beyond damage to moral sensibilities, hasn't been made clear.
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They have similar sized bags of "wild pink salmon" for $18. "Product of China" on the back, which I found interesting.
I get those from time to time for certain recipes and the quality is not bad. My understanding is that this is also Alaskan salmon but processed in China. Crazy world that we live in, where is cheaper to catch a fish in Alaska, process it in China and sell it back in North America than just doing it all here.
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since you quoted me as part of your post I will respond.
I did not claim such dumping did or does not take place. I have seen the photos which get posted every summer and create considerable outrage on line particularly
Rather the point i have tried to make is the excessive concern expressed by some members of the angling community has at least some of the characteristics of a known phenomena, a Moral Panic. Some of these characteristics are:
a known group or person which allegedly poses a specific threat to societal values and interests
while the issues that pose the threat may be real they and the threat itself are grossly exaggerated.
Classic examples of moral panic includes the Satanic Panic of the 80s and 90s when over 12,000 people, most often child care workers were investigated for alleged abuse of children during "Satanic Rituals". Virtually none of these allegations were substantiated. Other's include the War on Drugs, the Red Scare of the 1950s and the current so called White Replacement theory.
Anyone who wants to know more, and I sure many of you don't, there is lots of information on line.
I pointed out that food waste is endemic in Canada and I provided sources of which there are many more.. The actual threat posed by salmon dumping beyond damage to moral sensibilities, hasn't been made clear.
What a load of cupcakes. I can't believe the people on here that have no actual clue of how many salmon actually get taken in the fsc fishery reported and Un reported. Literally millions of salmon taken in Gill nets. Along with sturgeon kill and steelhead. To even suggest this issue is not a big deal or over exaggerated is insulting. You obviously are either blind, ignorant or you support it because you have something to gain by it.
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You obviously are either blind, ignorant or you support it because you have something to gain by it.
Or maybe he truly cares for the fish and the FN people, rather than the two daily quota of flossed sockeyes?
While you are at it, what else can we blame the FN for, climate change, the flood from last year.....
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Or maybe he truly cares for the fish and the FN people, rather than the two daily quota of flossed sockeyes?
While you are at it, what else can we blame the FN for, climate change, the flood from last year.....
That is even more ridiculous of a response. There is a slight difference between a few flossed sockeye and what is truly going on. Point proven on the ignorance.
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Or maybe he truly cares for the fish and the FN people, rather than the two daily quota of flossed sockeyes?
While you are at it, what else can we blame the FN for, climate change, the flood from last year.....
Interesting response. Who has flossed 2 sockeye legally in the last couple of years? Ok; now who has literally taken and killed millions of sockeye, killed unknown thousands of sturgeon, steelhead, and other fish while illegally selling thousands of those sockeye over those last few years? That isn't including the thousands of fish that have been dumped because of "freezers" breaking down?
I support FN FSC as it was intended. I even support FN in river commercial openings. I have no problem not flossing for a few sockeye. But when scientific reports are being altered or covered by up in the interest of preserving those select openings I do have a problem. The courts have ruled there is one thing that trumps anyone's access and that is CONSERVATION! If the fish aren't there then they aren't there and shouldn't be caught. If the numbers tolerate a minimal catch then that catch should be kept minimal. And if there is an over catch then yes, they should be allowed to be sold for that year and the allowable catch should be lowered the following years.
I am not aware of any other industry or group that is allowed to error made to the side of greater harm. On the contrary it is always to error on the side of caution. So I will ask, with courts having ruled already why does the government consistently error on the side of over consumption instead of the conservation when it comes to salmon?
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“So I will ask, with courts having ruled already why does the government consistently error on the side of over consumption instead of the conservation when it comes to salmon?“ Answer $$$$
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We wouldn't want to under-exploit our resource... The "F" in DFO references the commercial fishery and the idea has always been to fully exploit the resource. We sporties are an afterthought allocated a mere 5% of the "commercial" TAC. By shifting the commercial fishery to the FN (called "economic"), the "commercial" TAC becomes zero and 5% of zero is zero.
The problem is not that there aren't enough fish for a rec opening, it's that we rec fisherman are lumped together with the non-FN fleet. It's a policy that needs to be changed IMO considering the loss of GDP that a rec closure brings, vs. the number of fish we take.
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Enough is enough! Time to shut down the FN gill net sockeye, Chinook, coho, sturgeon slaughter on the Fraser river NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
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Enough is enough! Time to shut down the FN gill net sockeye, Chinook, coho, sturgeon slaughter on the Fraser river NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
You forgot Chum.
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100 percent agree. Conservation 1st. If one group fishes then all groups fish. None of this 1 group gets it all cupcakes. They don't own the damn fish. If it gets shut down for conservation concerns then nobody freakin fishes!
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Enough is enough! Time to shut down the FN gill net sockeye, Chinook, coho, sturgeon slaughter on the Fraser river NOW!!!!!!!!!!!
it may feel great to say this but it wont make a difference. The only thing that could make a change is if somebody of influence whether fame or monetary cared for the resource as much as us. I have never got the sentiment that any of the upper level management fishes themselves or give a damn outside of work. They likely do it only because of the high pay I assume they have. The only way individuals like us can make a change is if we get enough people to group up and fight for the cause, which there likely isnt enough of us to do.
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There are many other foods we can eat to keep us healthy and our stomachs full. I think natural resources should have way stricter laws and more enforcement for rule breakers. If you like fish you should have to catch your own just like deer. I do think there should be individual commercial fisherman and FN fishing and selling but not industrially or how it is done by big companies. Big companies have no right to the resources that belongs to us all. Just my take
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Unfortunately, will never be like that since fishing brings in so much money for some countries.
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100 percent agree. Conservation 1st. If one group fishes then all groups fish. None of this 1 group gets it all cupcakes. They don't own the damn fish. If it gets shut down for conservation concerns then nobody freakin fishes!
Stop assuming all groups have the same rights to the resource as it's simply not the case! FNs access to salmon is a constitutional right. And while you are at it, let's remember for one second the REAL reason why salmon stocks are in a steep decline. Call me naive but I personally trust the FNs a lot more to manage this resource than to any of us - they've coexisted with it since immemorial days and have done a good job until we came around. How much wild salmon is left in Europe?
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Stop assuming all groups have the same rights to the resource as it's simply not the case! FNs access to salmon is a constitutional right. And while you are at it, let's remember for one second the REAL reason why salmon stocks are in a steep decline. Call me naive but I personally trust the FNs a lot more to manage this resource than to any of us - they've coexisted with it since immemorial days and have done a good job until we came around. How much wild salmon is left in Europe?
How did FNs manage and how will they manage the fishery?
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Stop assuming all groups have the same rights to the resource as it's simply not the case! FNs access to salmon is a constitutional right. And while you are at it, let's remember for one second the REAL reason why salmon stocks are in a steep decline. Call me naive but I personally trust the FNs a lot more to manage this resource than to any of us - they've coexisted with it since immemorial days and have done a good job until we came around. How much wild salmon is left in Europe?
By far the worst suggestion in this thread so far
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I'm sorry that you disagree. The thing is, it doesn't matter what we think, say or who we vote in the next election: First Nations right to fish for salmon sits above all that. You can blame whoever you want for it but it is what it is. I made my peace with it long ago and I'm thankful for all the other great fishing opportunities that this province has to offer. Tight lines
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Stop assuming all groups have the same rights to the resource as it's simply not the case! FNs access to salmon is a constitutional right. And while you are at it, let's remember for one second the REAL reason why salmon stocks are in a steep decline. Call me naive but I personally trust the FNs a lot more to manage this resource than to any of us - they've coexisted with it since immemorial days and have done a good job until we came around. How much wild salmon is left in Europe?
Not taking a stab but you are naive to think any group of humans of any back ground will manage the fish for the best of the resource.
The "time immemorial" is only because technology wasn't there to catch them all back then and the human population of the world was so much smaller.
There is just way too much money to be made raping the resource. Try and name one group who stops voluntarily when it doesn't look good. Commercial fishermen don't if it's open, Sports anglers don't if it's open.
Fraser sockeyes are returning below forecast, so much so there is not enough fish for any commercial or sports fishing opening. See any lower Fraser river FN's stop and and say "we are also not fishing because of low returns"? How about "I got enough in my freezer so I will stop now"?
Nope, not happening. It's plunder to the best of their abilities while the going good. Like I said, Just way too much money to be made for some but not all and human greed comes out.
While part of their culture, there is not a chance any will starve to death on the lower mainland with all the grocery stores around.
I realize what it is and have moved on to other fisheries while opportunities to fish are still there.
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What a load of cupcakes. I can't believe the people on here that have no actual clue of how many salmon actually get taken in the fsc fishery reported and Un reported. Literally millions of salmon taken in Gill nets. Along with sturgeon kill and steelhead. To even suggest this issue is not a big deal or over exaggerated is insulting. You obviously are either blind, ignorant or you support it because you have something to gain by it.
Actually I am neither blind or ignorant. Your claims are so generalized and sweeping they are ridiculous on the face of it. Please provide some documented support that millions of Fraser salmon have been taken in all gear this season.
Both DFO and PSC regularly publishes reports (weekly at a minimum) on how many salmon have been taken:
Per PSC about 909,000 sockeye have been taken in all fisheries, both in the US, test fisheries and BC FN fisheries as of Aug 27th. They do split them between those categories.
psc.org/publications/fraser-panel-in-season-information/fraser-river-panel-weekly-reports/
there will be Alaska catch added to that later as those numbers come in after the season ends. However most of the Alaska catch of Canadian salmon is from northern rivers including those in Northern Western BC whose last few miles run through the Alaskan panhandle
DFO publishes FN catch reports on all 5 species of salmon and steelhead on their first nations fisheries page:
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/abor-autoc-eng.html
In river catches are well under 400,000 as opposed to your previous claims of 1 million (let alone "millions') or whatever. There is also archived reports going back a number of years.
Yes that may be under reported. Yes there is poaching but it's likely not as high as the estimates a few old good guys cook up in the pub after a few brew-skis!
There is also archived reports going back a number of years. If you were to look you'd also see economic openings (authorized) commercial sales took place in 2019, 2020 and I believe (the reports are not posted) in 2021. Apparently these took place without waiting to receive your support.
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Interesting that no one has mentioned potential impacts from salmon farms yet. Juvenile mortality from sea lice and adult pre-spawn mortality from Piscine orthoreovirus (PRV) appears to be significant for salmon migrating past operating salmon farms, based on peer reviewed research.
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Breaking news.
Apparently I'm a fishing guide now.
https://www.delta-optimist.com/highlights/fraser-river-salmon-poaching-enforcement-pathetically-low-says-guide-5769750
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Breaking news.
Apparently I'm a fishing guide now.
https://www.delta-optimist.com/highlights/fraser-river-salmon-poaching-enforcement-pathetically-low-says-guide-5769750
congratulations on your new title ;D
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Breaking news.
Apparently I'm a fishing guide now.
https://www.delta-optimist.com/highlights/fraser-river-salmon-poaching-enforcement-pathetically-low-says-guide-5769750
Congratulations on your new business venture. How much do you charge for guiding services ? I may be interested in your service. ;D ;D
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My current day rate for pikeminnow is $800 (that's 8 hours of fishing), which is several hundred dollars cheaper than the average day rate for sturgeon, but who wants to go for sturgeon anyway? This is an inclusive package, meaning that guests would have the opportunities to experience catch and cook in the boat, we'll be making plenty of balls, pikeminnow balls that is.
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Isn't there a hefty fine and consequences for guiding without a proper license? Be careful Rod! ;D
BTW - someone should ask DFO to clarify what if anything they do about sales of fish caught or distributed from FSC openings. It's nice they are looking for poachers who catch fish outside the FSC program and are skulking about the back roads of Hope but what about the Craigslist and other ads that cause many people to go ballistic? Those leads should be easy to trace!
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Isn't there a hefty fine and consequences for guiding without a proper license? Be careful Rod! ;D
BTW - someone should ask DFO to clarify what if anything they do about sales of fish caught or distributed from FSC openings. It's nice they are looking for poachers who catch fish outside the FSC program and are skulking about the back roads of Hope but what about the Craigslist and other ads that cause many people to go ballistic? Those leads should be easy to trace!
None of the first nations ever get fined or charged. Only the buyers that get caught.
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Actually I am neither blind or ignorant. Your claims are so generalized and sweeping they are ridiculous on the face of it. Please provide some documented support that millions of Fraser salmon have been taken in all gear this season.
Both DFO and PSC regularly publishes reports (weekly at a minimum) on how many salmon have been taken:
Per PSC about 909,000 sockeye have been taken in all fisheries, both in the US, test fisheries and BC FN fisheries as of Aug 27th. They do split them between those categories.
psc.org/publications/fraser-panel-in-season-information/fraser-river-panel-weekly-reports/
there will be Alaska catch added to that later as those numbers come in after the season ends. However most of the Alaska catch of Canadian salmon is from northern rivers including those in Northern Western BC whose last few miles run through the Alaskan panhandle
DFO publishes FN catch reports on all 5 species of salmon and steelhead on their first nations fisheries page:
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/abor-autoc-eng.html
In river catches are well under 400,000 as opposed to your previous claims of 1 million (let alone "millions') or whatever. There is also archived reports going back a number of years.
Yes that may be under reported. Yes there is poaching but it's likely not as high as the estimates a few old good guys cook up in the pub after a few brew-skis!
There is also archived reports going back a number of years. If you were to look you'd also see economic openings (authorized) commercial sales took place in 2019, 2020 and I believe (the reports are not posted) in 2021. Apparently these took place without waiting to receive your support.
Like I said blind ignorant or you have something to gain from it .
There are absolutely well over a million salmon taken every year poached or reported. Sold from big operations to the small. Is naive a better name for you?
The Gill netting is relentless.
Chehalis for example. Not even worth fishing it anymore once the fish show up Gill net one side to the other. No joke. Just one example. Might as well shut down the hatchery.
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For better manage the resources, I suggest who are harvesting salmon by net to buy bigger freezers. Just saw another dump in Rodney's instgram
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(https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/304760587_615347766617377_3631750989436468285_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=rjMl1DSoqiQAX9zR5o_&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=00_AT_UktsgRJU5ch_mLY9FS3VJV8SXj4hAajacwsm-BpZqkw&oe=6317226F)
This one was down near the Great Blue Heron Nature Reserve this morning.
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Somebody give these poachers a freezer !! They wont stop anyways
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Brutal.
Critter Care would take those fish for sure.
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Like I said blind ignorant or you have something to gain from it .
There are absolutely well over a million salmon taken every year poached or reported. Sold from big operations to the small. Is naive a better name for you?
The Gill netting is relentless.
Chehalis for example. Not even worth fishing it anymore once the fish show up Gill net one side to the other. No joke. Just one example. Might as well shut down the hatchery.
changing your tune again! Here is what you wrote that brought my response:
Literally millions of salmon taken in Gill nets.
Not a million + but "millions". So now you are contradicting yourself plus not able to provide any concrete evidence to back up your claims which are likely fabrications and gross exaggerations. Fits "moral panic" to a tee IMO.
BTW I have nothing to gain and conversing with you is a big waste of time. It's a dead loss for me.
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"The poachers are believed to be taking dozens of fish from the river; should the fish spoil in the hot weather, they are dumped, explained Hsu."
Would that it be so, lol.
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I support FN FSC as it was intended. I even support FN in river commercial openings. I have no problem not flossing for a few sockeye. But when scientific reports are being altered or covered by up in the interest of preserving those select openings I do have a problem. The courts have ruled there is one thing that trumps anyone's access and that is CONSERVATION! If the fish aren't there then they aren't there and shouldn't be caught. If the numbers tolerate a minimal catch then that catch should be kept minimal. And if there is an over catch then yes, they should be allowed to be sold for that year and the allowable catch should be lowered the following years.
what reports? I think you are confusing the altering of certain sentences and phrases on reports about IFS. IFS numbers have been 200 or less while this year Fraser sockeye are coming in at over 5 million. Please provide the names of the reports you are referring to! Otherwise you are making empty claims. If in total a million or so sockeye are harvested where is the conservation concern?
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Another story with comments by Rodney and DFO
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/highlights/fraser-river-salmon-poaching-enforcement-pathetically-low-says-guide-5769750
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Another story with comments by Rodney and DFO
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/highlights/fraser-river-salmon-poaching-enforcement-pathetically-low-says-guide-5769750
They're all the same article on about a dozen news outlets owned by Glacier Media Group.
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First post, long time fisher...
The DFO increased their estimates for the summer runs and seem to be waffling a bit as to whether the lates are as poor as they are forecasting.
My vote is to let them pass.
Also I was up in Lillooet for the opener and it was great. The rec fishery up there is unique and there are plenty of fish. Yes its a drive and the fish aren't dime bright and perfect but its open for rec and people should take advantage!
(https://scontent.fcxh2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/302159248_10166876934625012_5172051712519024248_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=GFnWk_3-FR0AX-HtbZm&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh2-1.fna&oh=00_AT_Id3oJJ8A03tPIozS6tXeKWSsecvS3fWTlKC_17D4qYQ&oe=631761A2)
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(https://scontent.fcxh2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/302159248_10166876934625012_5172051712519024248_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=GFnWk_3-FR0AX-HtbZm&_nc_ht=scontent.fcxh2-1.fna&oh=00_AT_Id3oJJ8A03tPIozS6tXeKWSsecvS3fWTlKC_17D4qYQ&oe=631761A2)
I am silently judging your taste in beer 😀
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They're all the same article on about a dozen news outlets owned by Glacier Media Group.
My bad. I missed that you posted it earlier. It’s hard to to keep up! I knew I should have read back…
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(https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/304760587_615347766617377_3631750989436468285_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=rjMl1DSoqiQAX9zR5o_&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=00_AT_UktsgRJU5ch_mLY9FS3VJV8SXj4hAajacwsm-BpZqkw&oe=6317226F)
This one was down near the Great Blue Heron Nature Reserve this morning.
fish repeatedly being dumped in the same spot.. and they still havent been caught seems like an easy catch
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what reports? I think you are confusing the altering of certain sentences and phrases on reports about IFS. IFS numbers have been 200 or less while this year Fraser sockeye are coming in at over 5 million. Please provide the names of the reports you are referring to! Otherwise you are making empty claims. If in total a million or so sockeye are harvested where is the conservation concern?
No I meant altered; but I am away taking my nephew hunting right now so dont want to spend the time looking up what was altered. I also said the DFO has a history of cover ups though and that is easy. In 2019, after several Access to Information requests regarding “Recovery Potential Assessment for Chilcotin River and Thompson River Steelhead Trout" (the report included a variety of items such as assessment of commercial salmon fishings impact on interior steelhead) resulted in the wrong papers being sent several times an investigator was assigned by the Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada to force DFO to release the assessment. The DFO simply refused to provide the assessment to the investigator and any further Access to Information requests on by catch or any management decisions regarding salmon that may have an affect in interior steelhead are flatly refused. These are not top secret documents; these are publicly funded scientific studies that are being completely barred from public viewing.
When I get back I will try to find the specific studies that the DFO is accused of altering; the ones B.C. deputy environment minister deemed “no longer scientifically defensible" because of DFO doctoring.
Off topic: Ralph, I jwant to say thank you for your contributions to this forum. You are a wealth of wisdom and though I don't always agree with everything you write you often make me consider things differently and I have learned a lot. I hope you have a great Fall Season. All the best.
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My bad. I missed that you posted it earlier. It’s hard to to keep up! I knew I should have read back…
All good. You're forgiven. ;)
fish repeatedly being dumped in the same spot.. and they still havent been caught seems like an easy catch
These are all different dump sites. The one in my video was in Hope. A couple other ones that popped up few days ago were in Mission. The one I posted yesterday was near the Great Blue Heron Nature Reserve in Chilliwack. Quite a few people suggested trail cams, but I mean, where are you going to place them?
Just to address a couple of points being made in this discussion. The science is good, the estimates and methodologies used to determine them are the best based on what's available out there. You may not agree with the decisions made after the data is presented as there are also inter-regional, sector politics involved, but don't question the science... It has to be frustrating for anyone who is involved in the scientific aspects of these fisheries to keep being told by the public who are unfamiliar with the science that the science is incorrect or deceitful. Scientists are just as frustrated as you all when decisions made do not align with their findings.
I shared another video yesterday to follow up on my first video after all the feedbacks (I literally had hundreds of messages and emails in the last few days). Including in the email are three action items I think need to happen to see the end of illegal selling, purchasing and wasting of fish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWwNLH24jCM
I'm hoping CBC and a couple other news outlets will come through with doing an interview with me this weekend. I have to be away most of next week and by the time I get back, this story will be dead since the sockeye run will be done. These conversations need to keep going if we want to see changes.
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No I meant altered; but I am away taking my nephew hunting right now so dont want to spend the time looking up what was altered. I also said the DFO has a history of cover ups though and that is easy. In 2019, after several Access to Information requests regarding “Recovery Potential Assessment for Chilcotin River and Thompson River Steelhead Trout" (the report included a variety of items such as assessment of commercial salmon fishings impact on interior steelhead) resulted in the wrong papers being sent several times an investigator was assigned by the Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada to force DFO to release the assessment. The DFO simply refused to provide the assessment to the investigator and any further Access to Information requests on by catch or any management decisions regarding salmon that may have an affect in interior steelhead are flatly refused. These are not top secret documents; these are publicly funded scientific studies that are being completely barred from public viewing.
That was pretty much what I thought and asked. Thanks for confirming it. You are not talking about coverups specifically related to sockeye and certainly not this years return. The situation with IFS stocks are radically different.
Off topic: Ralph, I jwant to say thank you for your contributions to this forum. You are a wealth of wisdom and though I don't always agree with everything you write you often make me consider things differently and I have learned a lot. I hope you have a great Fall Season. All the best.
thank you very much!
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They're all the same article on about a dozen news outlets owned by Glacier Media Group.
also characteristic of moral panic; rapid spread of the same story by media networks in simplistic ways that arouses public concern.
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(https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/304760587_615347766617377_3631750989436468285_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=rjMl1DSoqiQAX9zR5o_&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=00_AT_UktsgRJU5ch_mLY9FS3VJV8SXj4hAajacwsm-BpZqkw&oe=6317226F)
This one was down near the Great Blue Heron Nature Reserve this morning.
The poachers are wanting these dump sites found to rile up the sportsfishing community.
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The poachers are wanting these dump sites found to rile up the sportsfishing community.
Doubt it.. Smart criminals want to be as lowkey as possible not to get caught. Doubt they care what we think
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Off topic: Ralph, I jwant to say thank you for your contributions to this forum. You are a wealth of wisdom and though I don't always agree with everything you write you often make me consider things differently and I have learned a lot. I hope you have a great Fall Season. All the best.
X2
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Stop assuming all groups have the same rights to the resource as it's simply not the case! FNs access to salmon is a constitutional right. And while you are at it, let's remember for one second the REAL reason why salmon stocks are in a steep decline. Call me naive but I personally trust the FNs a lot more to manage this resource than to any of us - they've coexisted with it since immemorial days and have done a good job until we came around. How much wild salmon is left in Europe?
Why would anyone ever assume that any group in Canada has any more rights than any other group? Oh, wrong, we forgot about constitutional rights. Although, last time I looked, I had some fundamental freedoms as well. Those rights include thought, belief, opinion and expression. Bootleg salmon is not included in my rights. (And just to follow your train of thought) - Not too much wild salmon is left in Europe since colonialism.(When was that again)?
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also characteristic of moral panic; rapid spread of the same story by media networks in simplistic ways that arouses public concern.
Sure, call it that if you want. It raises awareness among the uneducated public so people would think twice about buying salmon illegally.
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I think "not aware" is a better description than the pejorative "uneducated".
I also used the term moral panic to describe the reaction of some members of the angling community to the FSC fishery. My opinion is that shares some of the characteristics of moral panic. The list grows.
You should also know I usually adopt the role of a gadfly these sort of issues.
Cheers!
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We are just all trying to grapple this situation. Lets include everyone. Fisheries Canada are short staffed like everything else. Our efforts from First Nations to Recreational anglers have been unheard of for years. The question is who is the stewards of the fish and environment? I hope you are a Steward...
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I had a conversation with DFO enforcement this evening about the ongoing salmon poaching and dumping issue. While it's good that everyone has been sending me photos and reports of dumpings, it is important to also submit a report to DFO's ORR (observe, record, report) line. Be specific on the location, description of suspicious vehicles or individuals. These reports create stats, which may result in more officers out in the area. It really helps officers a lot, who are just as frustrated while trying to hunt down violators. ORR can be done both over the phone and online. Please see the following webpage for contact information.
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/ORR-ONS-eng.html
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Okanagan FN group credited for astonishing comeback of local sockeye salmon run.
About 500,000 sockeye have returned to the Canadian section of the Okanagan watershed after period when about 30 years ago the returns were close to 1/100th of the current number. the band has caught and distributed 10,000 fish to members as part of a food fishery plus caught another 40,000 as part of a local commercial fishery. The return is also providing a local recreational fishery.
This is an extraordinary example of how giving local to control a FN group can produce dramatic and positive results.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/sockeye-salmon-okangan-fishery-osoyoos-1.6571895
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We are just all trying to grapple this situation. Lets include everyone. Fisheries Canada are short staffed like everything else. Our efforts from First Nations to Recreational anglers have been unheard of for years. The question is who is the stewards of the fish and environment? I hope you are a Steward...
tell us what you do to be a steward of the fish and the environment?
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Who cares where the dump sites are.
Who cares what vehicle was driven there.
There are trucks driving all over the lower mainland with fish totes in the back of them and a blind man could find one if he wanted.
Is just smoke and mirrors if you think any ministry is going to pursue any Native fishers for any kind of illegal fishing or selling fish.
Its a dam shame that there is no longer sport fishing on the Fraser other than Sturgeon.
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There is a rec fishery in the Fraser for sockeye happening right now. Its in Lillooet.
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Osoyoos Lake is also open. They have in the past opened the river once the fish move into it.
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Osoyooos lake closed to sockeye on august 31
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oops, my bad.
there are currently openings for chinook in Kamloops Lake, The South Thompson, Thompson river downstream of Gold pan park, Skihist Eco reserve. Other openings may be announced.
I think the message is check https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/bc-zones-cb-eng.html#wb-auto-4 before claiming there is no opening for anything other than sturgeon.
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oops, my bad.
there are currently openings for chinook in Kamloops Lake, The South Thompson, Thompson river downstream of Gold pan park, Skihist Eco reserve. Other openings may be announced.
I think the message is check https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/bc-zones-cb-eng.html#wb-auto-4 before claiming there is no opening for anything other than sturgeon.
You know what i meant.
But i knew someone would nit pick my comment.
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oops, my bad.
there are currently openings for chinook in Kamloops Lake, The South Thompson, Thompson river downstream of Gold pan park, Skihist Eco reserve. Other openings may be announced.
I think the message is check https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/bc-zones-cb-eng.html#wb-auto-4 before claiming there is no opening for anything other than sturgeon.
What a dick move.... 99% of the people that read the post thought it was referring to openings on the Fraser in the Chilliwack area.
Bet you got puched a few times in school.
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What a dick move.... 99% of the people that read the post thought it was referring to openings on the Fraser in the Chilliwack area.
Bet you got puched a few times in school.
Maybe you guys should stop moaning and go fishing? Not much else to be said in this post after 22 pages! In addition to (plenty) of recreational Fraser openings already mentioned above, I saw in the PA fishing report that on an outing this Thursday, they limited out on Chinook at the Fraser Mouth, then headed out to the Cap Mouth and limited out on Coho, all before noon! Is that close enough to you?
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As long as you have a boat the Sandheads or Ambleside should be doable
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For some people the glass is half empty, others it is half full.
I was never punched in school or even threatened. That includes my 7+ years in University. Looking back I realize what a great environment it all was which I miss.
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You know what i meant.
But i knew someone would nit pick my comment.
I think the point was and not only made by me, there are opportunities to fish for some away from stocks at risk and they aren't that far to drive. I can't do anything about the river being closed so I don't worry about. The 99% may think otherwise.
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I’m happy the fraser river is closed to fishing , the longer I think ,it’s better for our future .
What ever is going on now , legal or illegal it will catch up eventually , rotten apples will pay the price , just a matter of time .
I know it’s frustrating for everyone , but it will balance out sooner than later.
As for food fisheries , plenty will be available in two weeks time , for those who desperately need food , which I think is a very small minority of us , but each to their own …
I don’t think many of us go hungry becouse we don’t get our salmon , and I know we should all have the right to harvest them , but at the same time we need to be very open minded about tye damage we have all done over the last century or more .
Peace to all, in hope one day all our stocks rebound to the plentiful days that were enjoyed back in the day .
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Excellent post ribolovac02! Thanks
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Funny I did not know we could harvest a million + sockeye and then claim Rec is closed to sockeye
For conservation concerns.
The Rec fishery doesn’t harvest that many sockeye and can be ran on a fraction of the million sockeye that was already harvested.
By keeping the Rec fishery closed nothing changed the sockeye were still harvested to their allowable limits.
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Funny I did not know we could harvest a million + sockeye and then claim Rec is closed to sockeye
For conservation concerns.
The Rec fishery doesn’t harvest that many sockeye and can be ran on a fraction of the million sockeye that was already harvested.
By keeping the Rec fishery closed nothing changed the sockeye were still harvested to their allowable limits.
Not to mention by opening the sockeye even for a week during the prime summer and start of fall returns it would have cut off fn access to illegal fish sales at least partly anyways.. Maybe only a select few doing it but it’s creating more damage and waste than a rec opening would would have resulted in. Sad to see good food being tossed away in bushes and dumped half rotten back into the fraser by the thousands.not to mention the number that were being sold.
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The Fraser River Panel met Tuesday, September 6, to receive an update on the migration of Fraser River sockeye salmon and review the status of migration conditions in the Fraser River watershed.
It is currently estimated that 4,472,300 sockeye have passed the Mission hydroacoustic site. The Panel adopted a run size of 1,850,000 for Late-run sockeye at today’s meeting.
On September 5 the discharge of the Fraser River at Hope was 2,741 cms, which is approximately 13% higher than average for this date. The temperature of the Fraser River at Qualark Creek on September 5 was 18.60C, which is 20C above average for this date. Fraser River discharge levels and water temperatures will be monitored closely to determine if specific management actions are required during the in-river migratory period to help achieve sockeye escapement goals.
CANADIAN FRASER RIVER PANEL AREA WATERS
Area 29: Portions of Subareas 29-3, 4, 6 and 10 (seaward of the 45 meter depth contour): Open to Area B purse seine ITQ fishery from 6:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. daily from Wednesday, September 7, 2022 until further notice (Please refer to DFO Fishery Notice for further details).
Subareas 29-1 to 6: Open to Area H troll ITQ fishery from 12:01 a.m. Wednesday, September 7, 2022 until further notice (Please refer to DFO Fishery Notice for further details).
UNITED STATES FRASER RIVER PANEL AREA WATERS
All United States Fraser River Panel Area waters remain closed to commercial salmon fishing.
The next in-season meeting of the Panel is scheduled to occur on Friday, September 9,
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There are Late run Sockeye harvest opportunities being planned for commercial and recreational fisheries which will be announced by separate fishery notices in the coming days.
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There are Late run Sockeye harvest opportunities being planned for commercial and recreational fisheries which will be announced by separate fishery notices in the coming days.
I really appreciate when rec openings are paired with commercial openings...
sarcasm obviously
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It's because the DFO policy lumps us together. The rec fishery is only available when there is enough fish for a non-FN commercial opening. The policy says rec fishers get 5% and the commies get 95%. Personally I think this policy should change and the rec fishery, which probably supports more people then the commercial fishery with much less impact on the sockeye run, should be treated as a completely separate fishery.
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It's because the DFO policy lumps us together. ...
it's not DFO Policy. It's an SCOC ruling and that makesit a law DFO has to follow.
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It's because the DFO policy lumps us together. The rec fishery is only available when there is enough fish for a non-FN commercial opening. The policy says rec fishers get 5% and the commies get 95%. Personally I think this policy should change and the rec fishery, which probably supports more people then the commercial fishery with much less impact on the sockeye run, should be treated as a completely separate fishery.
why are they lumped together. I dont see any logical sense in it. Seems to be common with DFO. Why is it that it seems so badly managed.
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it's not DFO Policy. It's an SCOC ruling and that makesit a law DFO has to follow.
Huh I’m not aware of that, scoc ruling just said conservation then fsc,
Nothing about how rec and commercial split should work, as seen with coho and chinook rec have priority over commercial. That split is DFO policy, for chum, sockeye and pink commercial gets 95% rec gets 5%.
Unless we’re talking about round tables where other things have been negotiated where in port alberni o believe rec gets a bigger split because at the time the round table was form Rec was harvesting a larger amout of sockeye then 6%.
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SCOC Jack et al v The Queen 1980
Conservation is a valid legislative concern. The appellants concede as much. Their concern is in the allocation of the resource after reasonable and necessary conservation measures have been recognized and given effect to. They do not claim the right to pursue the last living salmon until it is caught. Their position, as I understand it, is one which would give effect to an order of priorities of this nature: (i) conservation; (ii) Indian fishing; (iii) non‑Indian commercial fishing; or (iv) non‑Indian sports fishing; the burden of conservation measures should not fall primarily upon the Indian fishery.
I agree with the general tenor of this argument. . . . With respect to whatever salmon are to be caught, then priority ought to be given to the Indian fishermen, subject to the practical difficulties occasioned by international waters and the movement of the fish themselves. But any limitation upon Indian fishing that is established for a valid conservation purpose overrides the protection afforded the Indian fishery by art. 13, just as such conservation measures override other taking of fish.
this was also cited in R v Sparrow 1990
that the guideline for harvest/access after conservation:
1) FSC
2) Commercial fishing by non-FNs
3) recreation fishing by non-FNs
in the past when 2) was skipped but recreational fishing was allowed the Commercial sector complained bitterly. FOV committed to the SCOC priorities.
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Says commercial or sport
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Allocation Principle 4 - Recreational Allocation
After conservation needs are met, and priority access for First Nations as set
out in Principle 2 is addressed, recreational anglers will be provided:
• priority to directed fisheries on chinook and coho salmon; and,
• predictable and stable fishing opportunities for sockeye, pink and
chum salmon.
Recreational Priority to Chinook and Coho
The recreational priority to directed fisheries on chinook and coho salmon will
operate only after conservation needs are met and First Nations priority, as outlined
in Principle 2, has been addressed. Implementation of the priority will also:
• take into account that sport and commercial fisheries operate very differently,
and
• be consistent with needs of the recreational fishery where fishing time and the
opportunity to fish are more important than an explicit amount of fish.
Where conservation goals cannot be met, recreational fisheries for all salmon will
be closed. Where abundance is sufficient to meet conservation goals but
insufficient to address First Nations needs, recreational access will be restricted to
selective fishing only including non-retention of chinook andlor coho salmon as
appropriate. Where abundance is greater, directed recreational fisheries will be
permitted, however, the recreational limits for these fisheries will be determined by
relative abundance. Even in high abundance scenarios, recreational limits will not
exceed 2 per day with a possession limit of 4 for chinook salmon and 4 per day with
a possession limit of 8 for coho salmon (e.g., in terminal areas or harvest of
hatchery-produced salmon).
Recreational Harvest of Sockeye, Pink and Chum
Recreational sockeye, pink and chum fisheries will only be conducted after
conservation needs are met and the First Nations priority, as outlined in Principle 2,
has been addressed.
The recreational fishery will be managed to provide a stable and predictable
opportunity for recreational harvest of sockeye, pink and chum fisheries.
Management activities will allow an orderly expansion of the recreational harvest
of these species and yet minimize the adverse impacts on the commercial fishery.
The recreational harvest of sockeye, pink and chum will be limited to a maximum
average of 5% of the combined recreational and commercial harvest of each species
over the period 1999 to 2005. This maximum average will be revisited prior to the
2006 fishing season. The Minister may seek advice from the Allocation Board on
this element of the allocation policy.
The 5% allocation is a cap (that is, a maximum harvest quantity.) Therefore,
sockeye, pink and chum salmon, that is not anticipated to be harvested by the
recreational sector in any given year, will be made available to the commercial
fishery.
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Says commercial or sport
take it to court
it also lists sport as #4. Some stocks can't sustain commercial harvest but could sustain a restricted sport fishery. This is done all the time however it certainly does not apply to this year's sockeye return. While there returns are lower than hoped they are not so low that conservation trumps all other options.
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take it to court
it also lists sport as #4. Some stocks can't sustain commercial harvest but could sustain a restricted sport fishery. This is done all the time however it certainly does not apply to this year's sockeye return. While there returns are lower than hoped they are not so low that conservation trumps all other options.
no need to take it to court they opened commercial they will open sport in a couple of days
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no need to take it to court they opened commercial they will open sport in a couple of days
where are these announcements?
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https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=search_results&ID=all&Year=2022
FN1007 & FN1003
don't hold your breath. The recreational opening may be off the Fraser mouth only. They haven't indicated there will be a commercial opening in the river itself.
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https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=search_results&ID=all&Year=2022
FN1007 & FN1003
The recreational opening may be off the Fraser mouth only.
It probably will be since they are keeping area E gillnetters out of the fraser,
MB pink hoochie time, Slow troll, lots of flashers
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It probably will be since they are keeping area E gillnetters out of the fraser,
MB pink hoochie time, Slow troll, lots of flashers
I hope so. I have a few vacation days earmarked for this activity. It wasn’t looking promising but fingers crossed.
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I hope so. I have a few vacation days earmarked for this activity. It wasn’t looking promising but fingers crossed.
Chinook is available. why focus only on sockeye?
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Chinook is available. why focus only on sockeye?
was lots of guys out in jet boats on friday and monday when it was flat calm getting limits.
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may open for rec fishing for a 10 day opening, notice may come out tomorrow for a Friday/saturday opening
for sockeye, down stream of hope
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may open for rec fishing for a 10 day opening, notice may come out tomorrow for a Friday/saturday opening
for sockeye, down stream of hope
wouldn't it be sort of late for that. I'm not doubting they may open but also it may not likely be worth the effort. I recall in the previous years after the first week of sept the sockeye fishing really slowed down to nil.
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Just in time for the Interior Steelhead to start showing up. I sincerely hope this opening is met with an increased DFO presence.
I ve heard stories of squaretails getting a rock shampoo during late sockeye openings... :'(
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5,000 fish TAC for the Steveston to Mission stretch and a 15,000 fish TAC for Mission to Hope.
Zero TAC available for the saltwater where they bite because in DFO's words, "The river mouth is not a terminal fishery but in river is". +
Another beauty about DFO and Fraser salmon management, Chinook sports fishing will remain closed in the Fraser upstream of Richmond because of concerns for Harrison white's but Sport Fishing is allowed to kill 2 a day every day at the mouth since it opened September 1.
Sockeye remain closed at the mouth while allowing Seiners in to fish their 175,000 fish TAC but remains closed to sports fishing.
Steveston to Mission will open to retention of 4 a day but there is basically zero caught there because the only way to catch sockeye consistently in this stretch of river is by intentionally snagging (not flossing style but cast and yard hard on the line style) so this TAC is really a waste but has great optics for DFO to claim they opened it up.
the 5,000 fish TAC really shold have been moved to the saltwater to allow a fishery there where the fish actually bite the hook.
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wouldn't it be sort of late for that. I'm not doubting they may open but also it may not likely be worth the effort. I recall in the previous years after the first week of sept the sockeye fishing really slowed down to nil.
I used to not bother going if the whonnack test catch was below 100.
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I used to not bother going if the whonnack test catch was below 100.
I chatted with my dad about this. He recalls catching socks in the salt into late September. Not as many as peak season, but some.
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I chatted with my dad about this. He recalls catching socks in the salt into late September. Not as many as peak season, but some.
I’m talking about in river above mission, for good numbers for bottom bouncing
In 2018 in the salt I was catching sockeye untill the end of September
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I have a diary entry for Sept 13, 2010:
"limited on 2 large bucks"
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wouldn't it be sort of late for that. I'm not doubting they may open but also it may not likely be worth the effort. I recall in the previous years after the first week of sept the sockeye fishing really slowed down to nil.
I think in 2018 we didn't try past Labour day, because it had slowed down and we weren't getting limits. I suspect fishing will be better up at Hope, but with the price of gas, and the crowds, I'm not interested in driving that far for blushed up late sockeye. I suspect my dad and I will probably fish by Chilliwack as I suspect it will be the last trip for our boat before we sell it.
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I just looked at my journal for 2010 and it notes I caught good numbers of sockeye on Sept 16th and 17th just downstream of Hope. That was of course the record year.
In 2014 I did the same on Sept 3rd and 5th and had the bar pretty much to myself. As I remember the river closed after the 17th though I didn't return. In 2018 it closed on the 5th.
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September can be great when the lates stop holding off the mouth and hit the river, but no signs the lates have moved off to mouth yet in any kind of numbers
just looking at some graphs it looks like late run on dominate year tends to peak in river around sept 15-25th
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I read in some of the fisheries notices that the IFS closures will roll into place in some waters (West Coast of Vanilse Areas 123 to 125) over the next 5 days. The window for opening will close fairly quick. Usually the Inter Coho closures come into place within the next 7 days or so.
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Steelhead closure starts sept 19 in river hence the 10 day opening starting friday
The coho closure started (Fraser River - Below Mission September 6 to October 7)
The steelhead closure starts (Mouth to Port Mann Bridge 19-Sep 30-Oct)
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Isn't the IFC/IFS closure below Mission a complete closure on salmon or has that changed? For the Fraser from the mouth to Mission it's still closed to all salmon. Trout fishing in the Fraser is closed from Sept 1 to Nov 15th from the Mission CPR bridge upstream.
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So just like last few years Coho opens on the Fraser in November which is well past the peak.
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Steelhead closure starts sept 19 in river hence the 10 day opening starting friday
The coho closure started (Fraser River - Below Mission September 6 to October 7)
The steelhead closure starts (Mouth to Port Mann Bridge 19-Sep 30-Oct)
Just so you don't confuse anyone with this statement, NO notice has been given on an opening starting tomorrow.
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Just so you don't confuse anyone with this statement, NO notice has been given on an opening starting tomorrow.
Yes last i heard it was not finalized so could change
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Yes last i heard it was not finalized so could change
No disrespect, but there is nothing to change. Not one official opening has been announced, so as of current time today there is no opening to change.
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No disrespect, but there is nothing to change. Not one official opening has been announced, so as of current time today there is no opening to change.
10/4, loud and clear, duly noted
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https://bcwf.bc.ca/illegal-sockeye-sales-rampant-on-fraser-river/
For anyone who doubts my claims there is a good read from a reputable organization.
I will repeat million to 2 million sockeye gone to Gill nets and majority sold in black market. Dfo get your thumbs out of your my friend and do something about it!
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https://bcwf.bc.ca/illegal-sockeye-sales-rampant-on-fraser-river/
For anyone who doubts my claims there is a good read from a reputable organization.
I will repeat million to 2 million sockeye gone to Gill nets and majority sold in black market. Dfo get your thumbs out of your my friend and do something about it!
Where is the statement of one or two million fish caught?
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Where is the statement of one or two million fish caught?
There have been a million recorded. So how many do you think are taken that aren't recorded? I am willing to bet it is a much higher number. The camouflage boats covered faces fishing all hrs around the clock. Drift Gill nets. Load up the trucks and send to cold storage and ship all over rhe place. Don't kid yourself it has been going on for years.
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Where is the statement of one or two million fish caught?
“The BCWF is seeing reports of dumping involving thousands, possibly tens of thousands of fish. I guess that really means Millions ?
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https://bcwf.bc.ca/illegal-sockeye-sales-rampant-on-fraser-river/
For anyone who doubts my claims there is a good read from a reputable organization.
I will repeat million to 2 million sockeye gone to Gill nets and majority sold in black market. DFO get your thumbs out of your my friend and do something about it!
the article cites nothing to support the claim which here had been previously reported as "millions". There is nothing to support that the majority of the catch is sold on the black market Any review of reputable published data such as from reports of the PSC show the catch this year is not any higher than in previous years of the same cycle or any this or any year. even at the worst the claims of perhaps "tens of thousands" sold on the black market by the BCWF, for which they provide no concrete support, are no more than a fraction of a percent of the total FSC catch or at most a few %. This does not strike me as reputable information. If that amount of black market fish can't find a ready market then it suggests there is little public interest buying the product from questionable sources.
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There have been a million recorded. So how many do you think are taken that aren't recorded? I am willing to bet it is a much higher number. The camouflage boats covered faces fishing all hrs around the clock. Drift Gill nets. Load up the trucks and send to cold storage and ship all over rhe place. Don't kid yourself it has been going on for years.
the current number for sockeye caught in the Fraser is about 400,00 of those over 100,000 have been caught above Sawmill creek. Of the 1.076 million total catch reported by the PSC, 319,000 have been caught in US waters by American fishermen and 293,000 have been caught by FN fisheries in the Marine approaches.
your claims are baloney.
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the current number for sockeye caught in the Fraser is about 400,00 of those over 100,000 have been caught above Sawmill creek. Of the 1.076 million total catch reported by the PSC, 319,000 have been caught in US waters by American fishermen and 293,000 have been caught by FN fisheries in the Marine approaches.
your claims are baloney.
Your numbers are from weeks ago.
10s of thousands are just the wasted dumped fish.
Again a few guys barking back that obviously have a vested interest in the fsc and illigal sockeye sales coming to the defense.
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Open tomorrow until the 18th.
Past Mission to Hope.
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Both Tidal and non-tidal of Fraser River are open for Sockeye.
4 in tidal
2 in freshwater.
Regulation change should be out by tomorrow.
I got new regulations from DFO by email.
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They are here
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=search_results&ID=all&Regions=&Fisheries=&Areas=&year=2022
Bait is not allowed, go flossing
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Your numbers are from weeks ago.
10s of thousands are just the wasted dumped fish.
Again a few guys barking back that obviously have a vested interest in the fsc and illigal sockeye sales coming to the defense.
Nonsense
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Disgusting to have all three sectors going at it during what is supposedly the closure window for Interior Fraser steelhead and coho.
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Disgusting to have all three sectors going at it during what is supposedly the closure window for Interior Fraser steelhead and coho.
100% totally disgusting. This opening will do more harm than good.
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Yeah instead of 30k ifc returns maybe 25k will
And instead of 150 ifs returning maybe 140 will
I get every spawners counts but the Rec sector falling in its sword for one sockeye season won’t cubsge anything to imporove Thoes numbers.
And traditionally more steelhead are harvested in the chum fisheries later on.
And more ifc are harvested in the ocean on the area f coho troll fisheries and mid water trawl fisheries and ocean catch and release fishery’s.
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Yeah instead of 30k ifc returns maybe 25k will
And instead of 150 ifs returning maybe 140 will
I get every spawners counts but the Rec sector falling in its sword for one sockeye season won’t cubsge anything to imporove Thoes numbers.
And traditionally more steelhead are harvested in the chum fisheries later on.
And more ifc are harvested in the ocean on the area f coho troll fisheries and mid water trawl fisheries and ocean catch and release fishery’s.
Haha, like sacrificial lambs. This statement is what is wrong with this entire fishery. Who cares about the consequences as long as my needs are met is all I see here.
I understand the want but DFO really has f'd up here telling everyone they gives 2 shits about a mandate to protect stocks of concern. Recreational anglers partaking in this fishery will also be setting precedent showing they too give 2 shits about stocks of concern which will be used against them and the rec sector in the future.
I will make easy choice to not partake in this fishery while knowing the future of any fishery in the future on the fraser is more at risk after the political fall out of this year's opening.
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It makes me very sad how a natural resource has become so political .
It makes me even more sad how, we ,the fisherman and fisherwomen and who else , have become so gready to harvest our catch , that’s worth a few bucks , it’s like we are desperate , but most of us have 500$ Sage rods and 500$ waders , and most drive nice vehichles and live in Comfy houses …
It is absolutely pathetic .
I fish , and I love it , but nothing will ever ,make me partake in this fishery , and I know some need it , but again , I find it very hard to belive that most need it desperately …
It is a very sad state of events that is going on right now ,in our fisheries , very , very sad …
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IF coho numbers haven’t changed in 30 years despite cutting almost all fishery exploitation. It’s below 5% most years
All I’m saying is changing that 5% exploration 6 or 7% Is not going to change future returns all that much.
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Well, for those b#%tcin and whining about not getting to snag your two socks, here’s your chance. Hope it will be worth it now that the bag fleets are being unleashed. I guess the good thing is that there will be fewer posts about the FN fishery now that some here will be too busy lining up at peg leg to drag their single strand Gill net on the bottom. Be careful what you wish for.
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Well, for those b#%tcin and whining about not getting to snag your two socks, here’s your chance. Hope it will be worth it now that the bag fleets are being unleashed. I guess the good thing is that there will be fewer posts about the FN fishery now that some here will be too busy lining up at peg leg to drag their single strand Gill net on the bottom. Be careful what you wish for.
If the Rec fishery fishes or not it has no impact in the decision making if they unleash the commercial fleet or not.
Any TAC the Rec fleet does not catch they will just give to commercial in future fisheries.
I do get it tho that it all stinks close the abundance summer run for concerns over late run then open it up for late run while other stocks of concern are present
Tho if the Rec sector and commercial fishery’s were big killers of stocks of concern then the 3 years where we don’t fish for sockeye there returns should be much stronger but they are not.
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So are we getting an opening in the salt or what? :-\
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If the Rec fishery fishes or not it has no impact in the decision making if they unleash the commercial fleet or not.
Any TAC the Rec fleet does not catch they will just give to commercial in future fisheries.
I do get it tho that it all stinks close the abundance summer run for concerns over late run then open it up for late run while other stocks of concern are present
Tho if the Rec sector and commercial fishery’s were big killers of stocks of concern then the 3 years where we don’t fish for sockeye there returns should be much stronger but they are not.
There are many factors that affect the returns of stocks of concern. Many of them we have little to no control over, but fishery openings we do. Even though this was the dominant year in the cycle, the run I felt was not strong enough to warrant a commercial opening. Very rarely do we see a rec opening without a commercial one. That’s the point I was trying to make. I would rather the rec sector not fish if it means the net fleet are kept off the water.
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I for one will be out there harvesting my two sockeyes every day of this opening along with the hundreds of other sport fisherman.
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I for one will be out there harvesting my two sockeyes every day of this opening along with the hundreds of other sport fisherman.
I am confused with the notice - Tidal portion says limit of 4:
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=265307&ID=all
"The current status of the Fraser River Sockeye salmon return provides for
recreational Sockeye retention opportunities in the Tidal Waters of the Fraser River.
Waters: Tidal waters of the Fraser River (downstream edge of the CPR Bridge at Mission to the mouth).
Management measures:
Effective September 9 until September 18, 2022:
- The daily limit for Sockeye salmon is four (4).
- You may not retain Chinook, Coho, Chum, or Pink salmon.
- You may not use bait when fishing for salmon."
While dfo site says limit of 2 below mission bridge:
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.html
which one is correct?
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Good question. The two notices contradict each other. Not surprising given it's DFO
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Good question. The two notices contradict each other. Not surprising given it's DFO
how should we be fishing in the tidal waters? Which arm do most of the fish come in? I am keen to catch some. Any info would be appreciated
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The first link is the tidal limit. The 2nd link is the non-tidal limit between Mission (starting at the downstream side of the CPR bridge in Mission) and Hope (downstream side of Highway 1 bridge).
I am confused with the notice - Tidal portion says limit of 4:
https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=265307&ID=all
<SNIP>
While dfo site says limit of 2 below mission bridge:
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/fresh-douce/region2-eng.html
which one is correct?
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So are we getting an opening in the salt or what? :-\
Nope, currently zero chance of a saltwater fishery where the sockeye actually bite a hook. The guys on the Fraser sockeye working group can pound any sort of common sense into the DFO managers they meet with which currently seems unlikely. They claim fishing at the river mouth is not a terminal fishery but in the river is so that;s why they opened the river up.
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how should we be fishing in the tidal waters? Which arm do most of the fish come in? I am keen to catch some. Any info would be appreciated
So far no one has figured out a way to catch them between Richmond and Mission consistently without just plain old snagging them using the good old rip it hard into the side of the fish method.
It would be nice if someone did so it could possibly spread out the volume of anglers that all fish above the Mission bridge.
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Your numbers are from weeks ago.
10s of thousands are just the wasted dumped fish.
Again a few guys barking back that obviously have a vested interest in the fsc and illigal sockeye sales coming to the defense.
No ...however your numbers are from beyond Mars or perhaps beyond the Kuiper Belt. They relate to nothing.
Numbers I provided are up to date as of Sept 4 for the in river catch and Sept 2nd for the total by PSC.
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Disgusting to have all three sectors going at it during what is supposedly the closure window for Interior Fraser steelhead and coho.
That's true Rod. However you have previously advocated for Pink salmon openings at the about the same time of year.
it also reflects the immense frustration & resentment, justified or not, that been created among recreational anglers over the lack of opportunities while FNs were provided theirs. These feelings have been whipped to a frenzy by the herd mentality of social media & most "leaders" in the angling community abet this.
Personally I think most recreational anglers play little more than mouth service to conservation for endangered stocks. In the end their solution is "build me a hatchery".
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So far no one has figured out a way to catch them between Richmond and Mission consistently without just plain old snagging them using the good old rip it hard into the side of the fish method.
It would be nice if someone did so it could possibly spread out the volume of anglers that all fish above the Mission bridge.
the opening will pull people off the Vedder and some other rivers, at least for a while. It's also going to result in the death of a lot of coho as many anglers can't differentiate the various species or will provide not to.
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They claim fishing at the river mouth is not a terminal fishery but in the river is so that;s why they opened the river up.
Where else would those sockeye off the fraser mouth be going?
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The first link is the tidal limit. The 2nd link is the non-tidal limit between Mission (starting at the downstream side of the CPR bridge in Mission) and Hope (downstream side of Highway 1 bridge).
Ah I see, my bad, thanks - so that 2nd link is mainly for the freshwater fishing
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Personally I think most recreational anglers play little more than mouth service to conservation for endangered stocks. In the end their solution is "build me a hatchery".
yes, Some think because they fish a hatchery fishery they don't have an impact.
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Some reports that the commercial fishermen fishing the mouth are not having that good of successes. If that's true it means the lates holding in the gulf maybe have been overestimated.
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If the Rec fishery fishes or not it has no impact in the decision making if they unleash the commercial fleet or not.
Any TAC the Rec fleet does not catch they will just give to commercial in future fisheries.
I do get it tho that it all stinks close the abundance summer run for concerns over late run then open it up for late run while other stocks of concern are present
Tho if the Rec sector and commercial fishery’s were big killers of stocks of concern then the 3 years where we don’t fish for sockeye there returns should be much stronger but they are not.
The estimated late run size, which includes a large Weaver/Harrison component is now at about the same level as the actual escapement in 2018 yet you complained that later return was lower than target by 277k and was the cause of the low return this year. Now you support a fishery by all sectors. Make no sense to me.
You are right that the IFC measures that have been in place for over 20 years (?) haven't improved that return in the long run though there were a few years of noticeable improvement. At least they haven't declined like interior steelhead which are about to fall off the extinction cliff.
The IFS and IFS crisis and many other interior fishery issues can't be solved by fishery closures alone. It will take a lot more to pull some of those stocks up. What's has been done with the Okanagan sockeye and Shuswap Chinook indicate measures that may work. The interior Fraser Fisheries are being hit hard by a variety of issues; Big Bar slide, hot summer droughts and a series of record fire seasons combined with unfavorable ocean conditions are all on the list.
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The estimated late run size, which includes a large Weaver/Harrison component is now at about the same level as the actual escapement in 2018 yet you complained that later return was lower than target by 277k and was the cause of the low return this year. Now you support a fishery by all sectors. Make no sense to me.
You are right that the IFC measures that have been in place for over 20 years (?) haven't improved that return in the long run though there were a few years of noticeable improvement. At least they haven't declined like interior steelhead which are about to fall off the extinction cliff.
The IFS and IFS crisis and many other interior fishery issues can't be solved by fishery closures alone. It will take a lot more to pull some of those stocks up. What's has been done with the Okanagan sockeye and Shuswap Chinook indicate measures that may work. The interior Fraser Fisheries are being hit hard by a variety of issues; Big Bar slide, hot summer droughts and a series of record fire seasons combined with unfavorable ocean conditions are all on the list.
I support giving rec fishermen access when other sectors have access. If the numbers are not their then close it to all. We both no the the rec sector when it comes to sockeye harvest is not going to make a dent when compared with other sectors.
A 10 day opening for rec in river is an non issue.
If you have concerns about run size Ralph perhaps you should of expressed them when you were defending FSC and wasting/selling fish.
I have also expressed concerns about having a mop up commercial seine and troll fishery at the mouth for lates when early they said non natives can't fish over concerns for late run. It does have the makings of 2018 overharvest again.
HOWEVER, since they OPENED IT to COMMERCIAL HARVEST I SUPPORT a REC OPENING. I dont think people should feel guilty about going fishing when commercial and FSC are taking hundreds of thousand and sport will take maybe 20k this season,
Also i look forward to this fall and you expressing the same concerns for IFS when it comes to FSC chum fishery's.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify my position.
best of luck
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Kevin curses in his basement looking for those 3.5 ounce Betties he bought cheap at the end of the 2018 season...
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https://notices.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=265376&ID=all
"There are limited First Nations commercial demonstration fisheries and recreational fisheries being planned or underway in areas of the mid to upper Fraser River watershed above the Thompson River confluence, where Summer run Sockeye total allowable catch is available and there are little to no impacts on returning Late run Sockeye. There are Late run Sockeye harvest opportunities underway for commercial seine and troll fisheries in Area 29, along with a gill net fishery in Area 13 harvesting Summer run and Late run Sockeye. Recreational fisheries in the tidal and non-tidal portions of the Fraser River mainstem as well as in the Thompson River system are being planned and announced by separate fishery notices. There are no marine recreational fisheries targeting Fraser Sockeye being planned at this time."
Bogus. >:(
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Anyone have a report from the river today? Conditions, numbers of boats out, fish on the fish finder, etc?
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I support giving rec fishermen access when other sectors have access. If the numbers are not their then close it to all. We both no the the rec sector when it comes to sockeye harvest is not going to make a dent when compared with other sectors.
If you have concerns about run size Ralph perhaps you should of expressed them when you were defending FSC and wasting/selling fish.
I have also expressed concerns about having a mop up commercial seine and troll fishery at the mouth for lates when early they said non natives can't fish over concerns for late run. It does have the makings of 2018 overharvest again.
HOWEVER, since they OPENED IT to COMMERCIAL HARVEST I SUPPORT a REC OPENING. I dont think people should feel guilty about going fishing when commercial and FSC are taking hundreds of thousand and sport will take maybe 20k this season,
Also i look forward to this fall and you expressing the same concerns for IFS when it comes to FSC chum fishery's.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify my position.
best of luck
...and you like everyone else can now have their cake and eat it too. I am sure everyone then will complain that their piece wasn't big enough.
I try to present facts.
The FSC is a fact. It's a fact that it is first in the harvest list priority. It's a fact that what has been and is being taken in that fishery is consistent with what has been harvested within the last 20+ years.
poaching and a black market for salmon is a fact. It's extent is not well known. There is no credible evidence that it so extensive it poses a hazard to salmon stocks. The question was examined in detail by the Honorable John Fraser, a former Minister of Fisheries when in the early '90s a shortfall of sockeye supposedly recorded by the mission hydro-acoustic apparatus failed to appear on the spawning ground. Accusation flew that "millions" of salmon had been poached and sold illegally above Mission. They found no evidence of this. The Fraser investigation found the most probable cause of the shortfall was that DFO/PSC erred in counting the salmon and among other things the Mission counting station is unreliable. Today however, the apparent myth of a huge black market operation continues.
The fact is waste is massive through out food system My daughter worked in a number of high class restaurants in Vancouver and many times commented on the massive amount of food including expensive seafood, including salmon, that was tossed out everyday. By law it can't even go to a food bank if it is still edible. Most of us just don't see it like the salmon dumped at the side of the road as it goes into a dumpster in the back alley.
I actually support the rec fishery. I favor a late summer bar fishery for chinook over a floss fest for sockeye. I support a saltwater fishery for sockeye before a flossery in the river. I favor hiring and training more FOs and COs for enforcement. I also favor more funding so methods can be developed to make better predictions on how many salmon will and do return. Very large errors are common every year. Very few runs and spawning areas are monitored at all.
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So i can go snag them in the head and keep two after they get funneled into the river but i cant put a pink hoochie down in the ocean and try to get them to bite it ! How in the hell does that make sense!
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This information is gold!
I am doing research on where to go for Sockeye fishing and have been wondering why places in the tidal portion like Derby Reach weren't brought up.
Looks like the non-tidal portion is the place to go.
Thanks again for saving me from a day getting skunked at Derby Reach.
So far no one has figured out a way to catch them between Richmond and Mission consistently without just plain old snagging them using the good old rip it hard into the side of the fish method.
It would be nice if someone did so it could possibly spread out the volume of anglers that all fish above the Mission bridge.
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No marine rec because they don't want rods around commercial boat I assume. With that said I don't plan on participating in this 10 day fishery. I went where there were plenty extra (Lillooet) and don't need to fish for the few extra.
Probably go hunting instead.
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This information is gold!
I am doing research on where to go for Sockeye fishing and have been wondering why places in the tidal portion like Derby Reach weren't brought up.
Looks like the non-tidal portion is the place to go.
Thanks again for saving me from a day getting skunked at Derby Reach.
check the Whonnock test fishery and Mission hydroacoustic site to make sure there are good numbers of fish:
https://www.psc.org/TestFish/Area29DGNsummary.PDF
https://www.psc.org/FRPWeb/Escapement/Sockeye_Escapement.pdf
A I recall, a catch of at least 60 at Whonnock was the minimum for decent success. preferably 100 or more. Just looking over the days & weeks for the hydroacoustic count will give an idea on when number are decent or really good.
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...... went out this morning for a couple of hours around Agassiz....a couple other anglers.. couple of boats went by...no rollers no action .....windy and smokey from the fire .....
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A nice limit of two after a couple of hours fishing. Not a bad way to spend a morning. All the sockeyes caught around me were small averaging around 5 pds at best. Nice to see some fish landed and take a couple home for a BBQ.
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I went out to Pegleg today - no action.
The normal fishing channel close to the shore west of Pegleg proper has about 15 feet of gravel where the channel used to be.
The top part of Pegleg is inaccessible - water comes right to the shore where you used to be able to drive on.
Saw no fish jumping and heard of only 2 fish landed there all day.
Did see a large dead fish on shore there. Thought it was a huge spring but I now think it is a sturgeon - didn't have much skin left.
(https://i.imgur.com/r6muqBJ.jpg)
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A nice limit of two after a couple of hours fishing. Not a bad way to spend a morning. All the sockeyes caught around me were small averaging around 5 pds at best. Nice to see some fish landed and take a couple home for a BBQ.
Where were you fishing?
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I fished brownsville bar for 2 hours and in delta for another 2.. Skunked, no signs of fish either. Could there be better spots? Or should I go at high tide next time?
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Where were you fishing?
I was fishing a bar on the Upper Fraser. That’s all I will say. There was about 20 people lined up and everyone was catching fish. It was not gangbusters but it was enough action to keep things interesting. But like I said the sockeye were small compared to what I am used to catching during an opening. I will be back tomorrow morning.
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I was fishing a bar on the Upper Fraser. That’s all I will say. There was about 20 people lined up and everyone was catching fish. It was not gangbusters but it was enough action to keep things interesting. But like I said the sockeye were small compared to what I am used to catching during an opening. I will be back tomorrow morning.
glad you had success. Tight lines
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Went out flossing today in-between hope and Chilliwack. DFO stats guy was there and said he figured the average rate of catch was about 2 fish/hour, with an average of 20 anglers fishing in that given spot, which is a pretty popular spot. He had been there for about 6.5 hours. Not great statistics.
I was there for about 1.5 hours and saw 2 fish bonked, which was about right for his numbers. If you put in the hours, you'll likely get your fish, but in my opinion not worth it
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Thank you so much RalphH!
I've been so lost since the sockeye fishing was opened yesterday. These numbers are very solid indicator!
As a quick reference to all, Whonnock test fishery of Sockeye hasn't exceeded 60 in the past 11 days.
check the Whonnock test fishery and Mission hydroacoustic site to make sure there are good numbers of fish:
https://www.psc.org/TestFish/Area29DGNsummary.PDF
https://www.psc.org/FRPWeb/Escapement/Sockeye_Escapement.pdf
A I recall, a catch of at least 60 at Whonnock was the minimum for decent success. preferably 100 or more. Just looking over the days & weeks for the hydroacoustic count will give an idea on when number are decent or really good.
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This is my first Sockeye year as well and I haven't been onto the water yet. What I am sharing are all hearsays.
Words say it is very hard to get any success in the Tidal Fraser. If you wish to increase your success rate, go above Mission and ideally above the Vedder confluence.
Check out this week's Friday Report from Pacific Angler. They explained this better in more details. I am still learning and have no idea what a gravel bar is, what it looks like, or where I could find one.
On my social media, one guy limited out at a place near Hope. I don't know where that is but there is a wildfire near it.
The link RalphH shared looks very helpful as well. Don't forget to check that.
Hope you could catch your first Sockeye soon!
I fished brownsville bar for 2 hours and in delta for another 2.. Skunked, no signs of fish either. Could there be better spots? Or should I go at high tide next time?
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you need to fish faster water, something about the speed of a good walk. It should have a good gravel or cobble bottom. The coarser the bottom structure, the more tackle you will lose. Use enough weight to sink to the bottom quickly but lets the weight bounce along nicely. Best line is 65lb gel spun such as Tuf Line as that will often allow you to pull the weight free when you hang up. If conditions allow, heavy slinky weights really reduce tackle loss. I made my own. Use a long leader - like 10 to 12 feet. A large hook, say #1 or 1/0, yarn in a bait loop and cast upstream. Keep a tight line to keep contact with the weight, let it swing around and once the weight rises and contact is lost with the bottom, reel in and cast again. Do that for 7 to 10 hours and you will catch fish.
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https://www.psc.org/TestFish/Area29DGNsummary.PDF
A jack sockeye on August 29?
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I am still learning and have no idea what a gravel bar is, what it looks like, or where I could find one.
On my social media, one guy limited out at a place near Hope. I don't know where that is but there is a wildfire near it.
Here's a map of bar fishing locations along the Fraser. I'm sure some of them have changed since last winter's storms:
https://www.bcfishingjournal.com/project/bar-fishing-locations-lower-fraser-river/
You can also Google "Fraser River bar fishing" to see photos of what these places look like.
Hope is a small town up the valley, on the way into the mountains. It's a 1-2 hour drive, depending on where you're coming from. The first Rambo movie, First Blood, was filmed there.
If you can afford it, hire a guide for a charter on the river. They'll have the boat, gear, and knowledge to get you into some fish. The Fraser is a big river to figure out, especially when your window of opportunity is so limited by time.
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This is my first Sockeye year as well and I haven't been onto the water yet. What I am sharing are all hearsays.
Words say it is very hard to get any success in the Tidal Fraser. If you wish to increase your success rate, go above Mission and ideally above the Vedder confluence.
Check out this week's Friday Report from Pacific Angler. They explained this better in more details. I am still learning and have no idea what a gravel bar is, what it looks like, or where I could find one.
On my social media, one guy limited out at a place near Hope. I don't know where that is but there is a wildfire near it.
The link RalphH shared looks very helpful as well. Don't forget to check that.
Hope you could catch your first Sockeye soon!
i read their report as well. From my conclusion it makes sense to me that the success experienced up there is due to the gravel bars. Which I guess are relatively flat and gravel filled meaning less snags. Meaning easier migration for sockeye and better fishing. I am unable to make it to hope so I will keep insisting on fishing the tidal fraser. Will keep updating my results.
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Fishing below the mouth of the Vedder is a waste of time for Sockeye. If your new to Sockeye fishing and have a boat launch at Island 22 and follow the other boats. Its good to fish with others around to know if there is fish going by. If you see a couple of people catching more than others, go ask if you can see their set up and copy it. Some gravel bar produce better than others, main reason is posistion on the bar, (bottom end, middle and top end ) water depth and speed. With out a boat, there is a good gravel bar below the Hope bridge on the North side. Hwy 1 side just drive between Chilliwack and Hope and look for vehicles on the side of the road. Be careful if you decide to cross back channels, and there is no need to stand in the water past your knees.
Stay safe, the biting coho will be here soon and are alot more fun to catch.
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Fishing below the mouth of the Vedder is a waste of time for Sockeye. If your new to Sockeye fishing and have a boat launch at Island 22 and follow the other boats. Its good to fish with others around to know if there is fish going by. If you see a couple of people catching more than others, go ask if you can see their set up and copy it. Some gravel bar produce better than others, main reason is posistion on the bar, (bottom end, middle and top end ) water depth and speed. With out a boat, there is a good gravel bar below the Hope bridge on the North side. Hwy 1 side just drive between Chilliwack and Hope and look for vehicles on the side of the road. Be careful if you decide to cross back channels, and there is no need to stand in the water past your knees.
Stay safe, the biting coho will be here soon and are alot more fun to catch.
thanks for the advice, I just hope it doesnt end up that nobody catches any in the tidal waters just like nobody caught any coho last year when it opened. Atleast nobody thats active here.
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Darko, in twenty years, I have caught one sockeye salmon in the tidal portion of the Fraser River when targeting them, and it's not due to a lack of trying. Also don't bother with the sockeye fishery in the non-tidal portion of the Fraser River, it's a waste of time, money and energy to legally foul hook a couple of fish to bring home.
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I figured out that it would cost me about $50 in gas to go to the bar I used to fish. At the standard $/km charge from Revenue Canada it would be $146. The value is questionable in terms of the fish though the surrounding are beautiful if it's not too smoky. As for Rod's comments, it up to you. There is really no ethical or sporting way to stick a hook in a fishes mouth or face. That's a fabrication and a cheat or deception anyway it's done.
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Another great morning out there! Another limit of Sockeye. Yum, Yum. A lot busier today then yesterday. The fish cops were out as well checking hooks. Get out there and get your socks! It’s only a 10 day opening folks.
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Catching Sockeye is not fishing..... It is snagging. Harvesting.
Boring to many and when you factor in the cost of gas / time / gear - hardly worth the effort.
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…
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Catching Sockeye is not fishing..... It is snagging. Harvesting.
Boring to many and when you factor in the cost of gas / time / gear - hardly worth the effort.
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I live in Hope. The gas costs are minimal. Flossing gear is cheap. Well worth the effort for myself to catch a limit everyday. Very happy for this opening. Nothing like a fresh sockeye on the BBQ caught that same day to feed my family.
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There is lots of honor in putting food on the table. The Fraser sockeye fishey has been examined from every angle by FOs and COs and those that administer our angling regulations. They say it is legal.
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There is lots of honor in putting food on the table. The Fraser sockeye fishey has been examined from every angle by FOs and COs and those that administer our angling regulations. They say it is legal.
Of course it is legal.... but many people have zero interest in slamming a bare hook into the side of the head of a salmon and then yarding it up on the beach. Very little skill / technique / challenge in this activity. Certainly it is not fishing
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Of course it is legal.... but many people have zero interest in slamming a bare hook into the side of the head of a salmon and then yarding it up on the beach. Very little skill / technique / challenge in this activity. Certainly it is not fishing
Your hook is not bare. Most guys are using a bead or corkie to give the hook some buoyancy. Not much difference in slamming a hook into a fishes mouth using different methods. Lol. Very thank full to have fresh sockeye to eat with family. My catch does not go to waste unlike the discarded rotting piles of sockeye being found elsewhere.
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Catching Sockeye is not fishing..... It is snagging. Harvesting.
Boring to many and when you factor in the cost of gas / time / gear - hardly worth the effort.
Two weeks ago people here were bemoaning the lack of sockeye openings and bashing the FN fishery. Now that sockeye is open to everyone it's "hardly worth the effort". Pick a lane, people ::)
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The government has allowed each person with a valid fishing license to harvest a total of 20 sockeyes in the 10 day period. That is a good thing for the ones who need the food, regardless whether you disagree with the method used. Any time a person can bring home fish for the family, be it sockeye, coho or chinook, is a good thing.
If the government is allowing this, then maybe the government wants all of us to stock up on food for the possible food shortages that is forecasted to begin in 2023. We have been spared in 2022 so far, with just price increases but not shortages. Next year may be a different story. If you can put some food away for the family then do so, because hard times are coming.
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Thanks Blood_Orange!
What I meant was I don't know where that fishing bar is. But I didn't know they filmed First Blood there. That's very interesting.
I totally agree that Fraser is a big river to figure out.
Here's a map of bar fishing locations along the Fraser. I'm sure some of them have changed since last winter's storms:
https://www.bcfishingjournal.com/project/bar-fishing-locations-lower-fraser-river/
You can also Google "Fraser River bar fishing" to see photos of what these places look like.
Hope is a small town up the valley, on the way into the mountains. It's a 1-2 hour drive, depending on where you're coming from. The first Rambo movie, First Blood, was filmed there.
If you can afford it, hire a guide for a charter on the river. They'll have the boat, gear, and knowledge to get you into some fish. The Fraser is a big river to figure out, especially when your window of opportunity is so limited by time.
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Darko, in twenty years, I have caught one sockeye salmon in the tidal portion of the Fraser River when targeting them, and it's not due to a lack of trying. Also don't bother with the sockeye fishery in the non-tidal portion of the Fraser River, it's a waste of time, money and energy to legally foul hook a couple of fish to bring home.
Honestly I should've just listened to you. I went out to hope at gill road bar today and here was my experience. Fished from 10-5, hooked three fish, two fell off in like 5 seconds, the third was a bigger sockeye maybe 9-11 lb which fell off after 2 minutes. Meanwhile the whole time around me people were catching fish, over 100 fish must've been caught today. I was using the same tackle as everybody else, tried different size betties, 3 m leaders, yarn, corky, fishing the same area I had no luck. I found it very frustrating and disappointing. I have had such strong desire and want to catch some salmon as in my two years of fishing I have only caught a couple pinks when the tidal fraser was open. I really want to experience catching new species and different kinds of fish but I have limited opportunity because I'm only 17 and have no family that fish. I caught 3 fish in what I assume to be probably close to 30 hours of fishing during the tidal opening. I have fished Chilliwack river too probably 15 times and never had luck. Its not that I'm not well read. I read every single resource I can find on fishing and love fishing to death but salmon fishing has brought me much more trouble than joy. I don't want to whine and complain even though it sounds like it but I'm just sharing my experience. Today at gill road there were multiple people who brought groups of friends and would hand them the rod when the fish in 5 m away from shore as they would continue to catch fish after fish, much more than their limit. I called DFO and even 2.5 hours later nobody showed up even though they were there in the morning. Honestly one of the worst fishing experiences.
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Honestly I should've just listened to you. I went out to hope at gill road bar today and here was my experience. Fished from 10-5, hooked three fish, two fell off in like 5 seconds, the third was a bigger sockeye maybe 9-11 lb which fell off after 2 minutes. Meanwhile the whole time around me people were catching fish, over 100 fish must've been caught today. I was using the same tackle as everybody else, tried different size betties, 3 m leaders, yarn, corky, fishing the same area I had no luck. I found it very frustrating and disappointing. I have had such strong desire and want to catch some salmon as in my two years of fishing I have only caught a couple pinks when the tidal fraser was open. I really want to experience catching new species and different kinds of fish but I have limited opportunity because I'm only 17 and have no family that fish. I caught 3 fish in what I assume to be probably close to 30 hours of fishing during the tidal opening. I have fished Chilliwack river too probably 15 times and never had luck. Its not that I'm not well read. I read every single resource I can find on fishing and love fishing to death but salmon fishing has brought me much more trouble than joy. I don't want to whine and complain even though it sounds like it but I'm just sharing my experience. Today at gill road there were multiple people who brought groups of friends and would hand them the rod when the fish in 5 m away from shore as they would continue to catch fish after fish, much more than their limit. I called DFO and even 2.5 hours later nobody showed up even though they were there in the morning. Honestly one of the worst fishing experiences.
You sure you meant Gill Rd? Gill Road is in Chilliwack....not Hope
If you did go to Gill Rd, where did you park? They blocked all the access off.
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You sure you meant Gill Rd? Gill Road is in Chilliwack....not Hope
If you did go to Gill Rd, where did you park? They blocked all the access off.
yes sorry I mean chilliwack, Everybody just parked on the road by the farms.. There are no signs right now but in the future im guessing there might.
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Ya ya we get it wiseguy……it shouldnt be legal but it is so thats that , dfo is stupid, end of story
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And hey Darko, dont let this stupid fishery get you down, just stay away from it and let the wiseguys if the world feel like a champ for ten days
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Also I forgot to mention one thing. The way fish were beached then identified was quite unpleasant to see. I know its a meat fishery but seeing it all day does take the fun out of it even more. Pretty sure I saw a coho and spring or two bonked...
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And hey Darko, dont let this stupid fishery get you down, just stay away from it and let the wiseguys if the world feel like a champ for ten days
yea I think you're right, I always like to try something for myself to experience it and I think I have made up my mind about this fishery. I will probably try once or twice more, use up the 40$ of gear I got and move on to better things
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I thought the government is not to be trusted, the numbers were fabricated a month ago. ;) Now we should listen to them because they tell us it's ok to fish? ;D
Darko, the craving for these fish brings out the worst of people in every group. We saw it last month, we are seeing it this month. I choose not to be a part of loving a species to death.
When you decide to come out to the Vedder in a month from now, post it here, we'll see what we can do so you can have a good experience.
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yea I think you're right, I always like to try something for myself to experience it and I think I have made up my mind about this fishery. I will probably try once or twice more, use up the 40$ of gear I got and move on to better things
LOL... Bitch and complain about the fishery and how unpleasant it was, but go again to use up the gear...
Amazing how people can justify their actions. Its legal. Deal with it. If you put a 100 people in one spot doing anything there will be some that have no respect and only think about themselves. It happens every day on highways where some idiot drives 160kph with no regard for the others around them.
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The way fish were beached then identified was quite unpleasant to see
Par for the course. And apparently the definition of 'mouth' also mysteriously becomes quite subjective during this time. whatever it is about sockeye, apparently really does bring out the worst behavior.
I do notice that in sockeye years, there is specifically an increase of flossing and BBs brought directly to other systems immediately afterwards. Maybe sockeye are a gateway into salmon fishing for some newer participants or whatever, but the more experienced anglers who participate in this fishery better not be complaining if the same technique proliferates everywhere later this season. If legalized snagging is what you want, then it shouldn't be surprising if that's what you get
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A jack sockeye on August 29?
luckily they don't record "Jills"
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Par for the course. And apparently the definition of 'mouth' also mysteriously becomes quite subjective during this time. whatever it is about sockeye, apparently really does bring out the worst behavior.
I do notice that in sockeye years, there is specifically an increase of flossing and BBs brought directly to other systems immediately afterwards. Maybe sockeye are a gateway into salmon fishing for some newer participants or whatever, but the more experienced anglers who participate in this fishery better not be complaining if the same technique proliferates everywhere later this season. If legalized snagging is what you want, then it shouldn't be surprising if that's what you get
Nope just wanted to see a saltwater opening where they actually bite. I have never seen a river opening only. IT is a real farce to see tidal open but not in an area fish can even be caught without having to snag them. Meanwhile seine boats are allowed to have at them. Dfo really messed this year up never seen anything like it.
Ya I will complain when the Betty's and 10 ft leader show up on the trips. Not ethical! Not practical!
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Darko if you ever wanna try out the vedder again, anytime since there's salmon in there now. Shoot me a message and I'll meet up with you and help you get a fish. Cheers
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And hey Darko, dont let this stupid fishery get you down, just stay away from it and let the wiseguys if the world feel like a champ for ten days
Do I feel like a champ? No I feel like a Canadian citizen giving the opportunity to share in the bounty of a natural resource that belongs to all Canadians equally imo. Very thankful for this opportunity to provide fresh sockeye to my family. Not much difference then standing shoulder to shoulder using a long leader with a bead attached flossing coho out of a lower river stack hole on the Vedder. I observe this as an onlooker every fall when out for a walk on the rotary trail. No one seems to complain about that.
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Not much difference then standing shoulder to shoulder using a long leader with a bead attached flossing coho out of a lower river stack hole on the Vedder. I observe this as an onlooker every fall. No one seems to complain about that.
This sockeye opening only encourages unethical fishing techniques that are then transferred to fall coho fishery. Snagging in the head and then quickly yarding up hooked fish up on the shore as quickly as possible.. Combat fishing with hordes too close together casting over each other. Disturbing to watch and i want no part of it.
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https://infotel.ca/newsitem/sockeye-being-caught-sold-illegally-before-reaching-kamloops/it93943
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https://infotel.ca/newsitem/sockeye-being-caught-sold-illegally-before-reaching-kamloops/it93943
just a rehash of the BCWF on line article that was posted previously plus there was another direct copy of the BCWF article posted after that... three times, the same article. Does that mean the problem has grown 3 times in magnitude since the original article was published? Don't think so!
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Looks like the lates are starting to enter the river in okay numbers should build now every day till the closure.
Fishing should only improve over the next week
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just got a call from relatives on #1 east of Hope. It has been closed from Annis Road east of Chilliwack to flood Road near Hope both east and west due to the wildfire near Hope. Traffic is being diverted to Hwy 9 and or 7 . no indication how long this will last. Expect a traffic mess up there is you plan to go fishing.
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Thanks Ralph,
My parents live their and have health issues. I may need to get them out of their if it gets worse.
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Well that wildfire is classified as being out of control due to the steep terrain.Hopefully they can hold it back from getting closer to farms and structures. To me if you don't have to travel in that area stay away and let the firefighters do their job.
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Dear Friends:
What to do about Salmon Poaching on the Fraser River.
Rather than just posting on this webpage, or similar Facebook pages I suggest you email DFO with cc to your MP (see https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/search?province=BC) and Joyce Murray the Ministry of Fisheries @ min@dfo-mpo.gc.ca demanding immediate action be taken to deal with the situation.
While DFO may claim it lacks the resources to deal with it, the RCMP and the Provincial Conservation Officer Service are also able to deal with crimes of this nature.
Griping about it on line achieves nothing. Ditto for endless reposting of the same news story.
Here is a copy of whati have sent to Minister, DFO and my MP
Currently there is great concern among people familiar with the Fraser River about the poaching of sockeye salmon and illegal salmon sales in the area from Chilliwack BC into the Fraser Canyon from Hope BC to Lytton. As you may be aware the return of sockeye this year is much lower than expected. However it has thankfully been possible to provide a generous legal catch to First Nations peoples and even provide for a modest commercial and recreational fishery.
However despite the low return there seems to be little or no enforcement of illegal poaching of sockeye. Some people and organizations such as the British Columbia Wildlife Federation have suggested the loss of fish could be in the tens of thousands!
I urge all of you to ensure immediate action is taken to curtail these actions. I urge that whatever resources are available such as the RCMP and the Provincial Conservation Services be employed to make this happen immediately.
Thank you for considering my suggestions.
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Dear Friends:
What to do about Salmon Poaching on the Fraser River.
Rather than just posting on this webpage, or similar Facebook pages I suggest you email DFO with cc to your MP (see https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/search?province=BC) and Joyce Murray the Ministry of Fisheries @ min@dfo-mpo.gc.ca demanding immediate action be taken to deal with the situation.
While DFO may claim it lacks the resources to deal with it, the RCMP and the Provincial Conservation Officer Service are also able to deal with crimes of this nature.
Griping about it on line achieves nothing. Ditto for endless reposting of the same news story.
Here is a copy of whati have sent to Minister, DFO and my MP
Currently there is great concern among people familiar with the Fraser River about the poaching of sockeye salmon and illegal salmon sales in the area from Chilliwack BC into the Fraser Canyon from Hope BC to Lytton. As you may be aware the return of sockeye this year is much lower than expected. However it has thankfully been possible to provide a generous legal catch to First Nations peoples and even provide for a modest commercial and recreational fishery.
However despite the low return there seems to be little or no enforcement of illegal poaching of sockeye. Some people and organizations such as the British Columbia Wildlife Federation have suggested the loss of fish could be in the tens of thousands!
I urge all of you to ensure immediate action is taken to curtail these actions. I urge that whatever resources are available such as the RCMP and the Provincial Conservation Services be employed to make this happen immediately.
Thank you for considering my suggestions.
I'll do this aswell.
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Not just Salmon being poached.
Sturgeon also. My buddies found a 9'10" Sturgeon around the Billy Minor Pub 2 weeks ago.
4 slits for the eggs. The fish also had a rope tied around it's tail. Very frustrating and sad.
If you want to see a pic of the fish and more of the story I put it on Instagram under dennisb59.
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Let’s not forget the past.
https://www.abbynews.com/news/illegal-trade-in-native-caught-salmon-rampant-dfo/
And that’s a low return . The black markets aren’t just single people buying . Lots of fish crossing borders too .
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copy from the other site....
"Just watched a great segment on the Salmon Poaching we've been discussing/bitching about this week and every year for decades on Global News Noon Hour....finally an expose of the ineptness of the DFO in this in regard to this ongoing major issue.....kudos to Jesse Zeman for this....hope this is at least a start to and end but not holding my breath 🤞
Maybe someone can post a link to that segment ....I didn't find it ???"
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https://globalnews.ca/video/9121261/thousands-of-illegal-sockeye-being-dumped-near-fraser-river/
Disgusting!
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No gov't agency will ever stand up to the FN for this.
TAKE, TAKE, TAKE......
Is all they do.
No matter how much they get, they will always want more.... and the next year more again...
The dump site found in the bush are only a fraction of what is actually dumped.
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Went out on Saturday and while we were on the north side of the fires, it was apocalyptic. CN Police and RCMP were out in force. Got 1 in 4 hours. Back is sore from all the casting. If they weren't so tasty, I wouldn't go, I detest this type of fishing. Small waves of fish kept it sort of interesting? Not sure it's worth the drive from Langley.
Lots of bad fish handling and poor identification still goes on... Doesn't everyone read this site? ;)
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Lots of bad fish handling and poor identification still goes on... Doesn't everyone read this site? ;)
I've always been told that it is the ones who read this site are doing the bad fish handling... ;)
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Do I feel like a champ? No I feel like a Canadian citizen giving the opportunity to share in the bounty of a natural resource that belongs to all Canadians equally imo. Very thankful for this opportunity to provide fresh sockeye to my family. Not much difference then standing shoulder to shoulder using a long leader with a bead attached flossing coho out of a lower river stack hole on the Vedder. I observe this as an onlooker every fall when out for a walk on the rotary trail. No one seems to complain about that.
Then why brag about it on two separate posts? This snaggery is just a harvest and not sportsfishing. Should I brag about how many Beets I picked out of my community garden? I have no problem with people going out and harvesting their two if they chose to and going home but discussing this on a sportsfishing forum is pointless to me. And btw, over a decade ago I did partake in this when the runs were way healthier. What stopped me was witnessing the greed and poor ethics and how it infected the other fisheries in the fall as well.
And btw you are dead wrong about no one complaining about flossing or snagging on the Vedder. It gets talked about all the time. Maybe not on this forum but certainly elsewhere.
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I've always been told that it is the ones who read this site are doing the bad fish handling... ;)
🤣 Ok that's a good one!
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Should I brag about how many Beets I picked out of my community garden?
You've obviously never visited r/gardening :P
Here's an actual post from today in the subreddit. (https://www.reddit.com/r/gardening/comments/xbug97/just_wanted_to_show_off_my_first_cucumber_ever/)
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https://globalnews.ca/video/9121261/thousands-of-illegal-sockeye-being-dumped-near-fraser-river/
Disgusting!
now 4x... is the problem 4 times worse as a result?
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Does anyone know where I can just buy a few sockeye locally
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Does anyone know where I can just buy a few sockeye locally
PM'd you about a really positive experience I had this past weekend buying from a local commercial fishing family.
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Another dump this morning in Chilliwack.
(https://scontent.fyvr4-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/306617669_622020892616731_427815704937282431_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=2OXZmX7YJ1UAX-37H0X&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr4-1.fna&oh=00_AT8CV-7fRXirCmUuj9Fl-SnCxQXtHEOaiRBBUS9Xf8hGzw&oe=63254890)
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Rodney your efforts are appreciated and I'm sure it's time consuming and draining. Thanks for keeping it up.
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So tidal is open for sockeye but not out in the ocean ? Shady island must be a gong show.
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Rodney your efforts are appreciated and I'm sure it's time consuming and draining. Thanks for keeping it up.
Thanks. I'll C&P what I wrote on Facebook to accompany this photo here.
Another day, another dump of precious sockeye salmon. If you come across them and send photos to me, please include a date and location. You should also file a report with ORR at 1-800-465-4336 or DFO.ORR-ONS.MPO@dfo-mpo.gc.ca at the same time. I'm only sharing some of the photos or videos received, but rest assured that all of them are being compiled into something that will hopefully put an end to this unnecessary waste. I'm glad to see since the video I released a couple of weeks ago, this story has not lost momentum. Thanks to Jesse Zeman from BC Wildlife Federation, it has made it into more news platforms on recent days.
Global BC:
https://globalnews.ca/video/9121261/thousands-of-illegal-sockeye-being-dumped-near-fraser-river/
The Vancouver Sun:
https://vancouversun.com/business/signs-of-sockeye-salmon-poaching-abound-though-fraser-river-remains-off-limits
iNFOnews Penticton:
https://infotel.ca/newsitem/sockeye-being-caught-sold-illegally-before-reaching-kamloops/it93943
Someone has been suggesting on my discussion forum that by spreading this across numerous news platforms, it makes it seem like the problem is bigger than it actually is. I call that BS. The reality is that we don't know the extent of this problem, and the goal of spreading the word is to deter people from buying fish illegally and cut down the demand. It's also a reminder to Fisheries and Oceans Canada and Minister Joyce Murray that support is desperately needed for our enforcement officers. I don't want to be talking about this again in the coming summers, I'd rather be sharing good fishing experiences, but this has to stop if we still want good fishing experiences in the future. I also have had conversations with various First Nation members who are just as frustrated and baffled by this. Once again, it is in every single Canadian's best interest to weed out the few bad apples who are stealing our fish so we can focus on what's more important, which is collaborations to restore and enhance our salmon populations.
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Its been suggest in social media by first nations that this problem would not be so extensive if DFO offered first nations a better Comprehensive Fisheries Agreements, aka economic opportunities (EO). That then this fish would go to licenced processors and there would not be this issue. That DFO's offer this year was not worth the paper it was printed on.
Also Rod your extremely brave for being outspoken about this and it is awesome that you are bringing these issues to light. I can imagine tho there is landslide of pressure coming your way tho who would like this to stay out of the media. I wouldn't be surprised if you get some phone calls and emails forms representatives of different groups to cool it off. Best of luck, I know you will probably hit a point and say F it all, Stay strong
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Thanks. I'll C&P what I wrote on Facebook to accompany this photo here.
Another day, another dump of precious sockeye salmon. If you come across them and send photos to me, please include a date and location. You should also file a report with ORR at 1-800-465-4336 or DFO.ORR-ONS.MPO@dfo-mpo.gc.ca at the same time. I'm only sharing some of the photos or videos received, but rest assured that all of them are being compiled into something that will hopefully put an end to this unnecessary waste. I'm glad to see since the video I released a couple of weeks ago, this story has not lost momentum. Thanks to Jesse Zeman from BC Wildlife Federation, it has made it into more news platforms on recent days.
Global BC:
https://globalnews.ca/video/9121261/thousands-of-illegal-sockeye-being-dumped-near-fraser-river/
The Vancouver Sun:
https://vancouversun.com/business/signs-of-sockeye-salmon-poaching-abound-though-fraser-river-remains-off-limits
iNFOnews Penticton:
https://infotel.ca/newsitem/sockeye-being-caught-sold-illegally-before-reaching-kamloops/it93943
Someone has been suggesting on my discussion forum that by spreading this across numerous news platforms, it makes it seem like the problem is bigger than it actually is. I call that BS. The reality is that we don't know the extent of this problem, and the goal of spreading the word is to deter people from buying fish illegally and cut down the demand. It's also a reminder to Fisheries and Oceans Canada and Minister Joyce Murray that support is desperately needed for our enforcement officers. I don't want to be talking about this again in the coming summers, I'd rather be sharing good fishing experiences, but this has to stop if we still want good fishing experiences in the future. I also have had conversations with various First Nation members who are just as frustrated and baffled by this. Once again, it is in every single Canadian's best interest to weed out the few bad apples who are stealing our fish so we can focus on what's more important, which is collaborations to restore and enhance our salmon populations.
OMG..... A few bad apples...... There are so many dump sites on land and 10x that on the water. Its not the same 2 people... If you think different then your a fool...
I moved here in 1989 and it is the same every year. Could easily copy and paste these 33 pages to a discussion page next year.
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It’s getting to the point where just netting the fish for fn at the mouth would be more beneficial . It would cut the black market off . The fish would have a higher resale price if any band members decided to they wanted to sell their share . if commercial fishers harvested and processed them for fn they would actually be bled and put on ice .the fish would have better table fare and more accurate escapement numbers could be recorded on the fraser and it’s tributaries. Nobody really knows how much damage is being done but we all have a pretty good idea how rampant it is. Fn depend on food for social and ceremonial needs but I think the ones that really need it are likely not the ones abusing this resource . It’s greed and the few and these back door dealings ruining this river . It really can’t be managed with a hopeful attitude and wishful thinking . Something has to change .
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Rod said:
Someone has been suggesting on my discussion forum that by spreading this across numerous news platforms, it makes it seem like the problem is bigger than it actually is. I call that BS. The reality is that we don't know the extent of this problem
Thank you Rod you have pulled the words right out of my mouth. We don't know the extent of the problem. It may be 1,000s illegally marketed fish and it may be 10,000s of thousands. That's exactly what I have said and simply copying pasting the same news release from the BCWF does not get anyone any closer to the extent of the problem.
Send them to DFO, to your local MP and to the Minister. Send them to the PM or even all the MPs in BC. That may do something. Nattering on here or Facebook will not!
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First Nation leaders need to get control of the "media labeled" poachers within their communities.
They appear to take no responsibility in the shameful actions of some of it's band members, and instead lay blame to a lack of DFO EO's.
These leaders proclaim to be the true stewards of the land, and yet allow this senseless waste to continue.
Get control of these bad apples, or you are going to have a big PR problem on their hands.
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First Nation leaders need to get control of the "media labeled" poachers within their communities.
They appear to take no responsibility in the shameful actions of some of it's band members, and instead lay blame to a lack of DFO EO's.
These leaders proclaim to be the true stewards of the land, and yet allow this senseless waste to continue.
Get control of these bad apples, or you are going to have a big PR problem on their hands.
It’s been 2+ decades . It’s not going to change . It’s not like every First Nations person has a boat and nets . How many off each reserve even net? Probably a pretty small number or percentage .
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Follow the money from the fish sales. I guarantee you it leads straight to the first nations delegates and chiefs pockets. Same bad apples is a bull poo deflection. Dfo is only partially to blame. Takes one group to make bad management descions and one group to exploit it. Setting up a means to sell the fish legally could be a solution to the dumping. But it doesn't stop or change the Gill nets destruction and the unreasonable amount of fish being taken by one interest group. 90 percent of fish to FN 10 percent to commercial then the recs got 0.02 percent. Who pays taxes and liscence fees again?
Oh conservation comes last by the way.
Every deflection excuse in the book. If the leaders gave a damn this wouldn't continue. It is so blatantly obvious that they have the interest of filling thier own pockets. It is sad when u hear stories of poverty and people not even getting
actual food fish because the fish are being taken and sold! 90 percent of those fish are sold.
Sounds like capitalism when a select few are benefiting and sitting high on the hog while many others are in poverty.
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Hate to break it to you fellas but it will not get any better, pretty soon the “stewards of the Land” will be the only ones allowed to fish, just look at whats happening out in the ocean , we are almost shut down there, i give it 5 years…. Great way to bring a nation together and move forward as one hey
Sad sad sad times
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Hate to break it to you fellas but it will not get any better, pretty soon the “stewards of the Land” will be the only ones allowed to fish, just look at whats happening out in the ocean , we are almost shut down there, i give it 5 years…. Great way to bring a nation together and move forward as one hey
Sad sad sad times
If it comes to that then I say we all fish anyways. Protest and then some. They going to fine all of us? Go ahead. Do what they do. Fish anyways since it is our right. Shouldn't be any different at this point.
F dfo.
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Yup unfortunately im almost at that point
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I've seen both sides of the sockeye economy. Two groups go out to catch and sell fish. A week later I see group 1 and the kids have new shoes and clothes, and are all smiles. Then I see group 2 and they're all cracked out with sores opening up on their skin. In reality group #1 is 99% of the people out there.
People are excited about wasted fish and I agree, but go see the waste coming out of your local super market. Do you think all that wild caught rock fish and sole and halibut gets sold 100% of the time? and where does that go? A lot of those bottom fish are caught by destructive draggers as well. How many seafood sections are open in the lower mainland? Does paying tax absolve us of the waste?
The sockeye economy whether people like it or not is a boon to local FN and has all kinds of societal benefits for them. I'd way rather buy sockeye from a local band than to pay an extra $20 a fish just so Jim Pattison can put his dirty richard beaters on it.
I don't buy my fish because I don't have to, but a FN cottage fishery doesn't bother me one bit. No one can convince me that the lower Fraser commi openings are a better option. There are few things I have witnessed in the Fraser River that are more destructive than the total wipeout of 60km sections of the river. Calling it a FSC only fishery is an insult to everyone's intelligence and it boils down to regulatory BS. We ought to rip the band aid off and reorganize our fisheries for prosperity and not just sustainability.
Who thinks that this year's return of red springs in the Vedder had anything to do with curtailing fisheries in the Juan de Fuca and Salish?
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Curious (please dont take this the wrong way!) but in years when the fish numbers are so low there is not even enough for a rec. opening nor a commercial opening, why are FNs allowed to still use nets to salmon fish and not just rod-n-reel? They could still get some fish and not cause as much stress on already strained stocks?
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Curious (please dont take this the wrong way!) but in years when the fish numbers are so low there is not even enough for a rec. opening nor a commercial opening, why are FNs allowed to still use nets to salmon fish and not just rod-n-reel? They could still get some fish and not cause as much stress on already strained stocks?
Because they want to catch as many as they can and sell asmany as they can. Opening or not. All about the money.
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Curious (please dont take this the wrong way!) but in years when the fish numbers are so low there is not even enough for a rec. opening nor a commercial opening, why are FNs allowed to still use nets to salmon fish and not just rod-n-reel? They could still get some fish and not cause as much stress on already strained stocks?
FN's FSC fisheries are not like recreational fisheries, individual participants are not just fishing for themselves. Only a number of designated participants are out there catching fish for the entire community. The fish are caught, recorded, brought back, and distributed among elders and families. Using a rod and reel is not feasible for this fishery since a number of fish is expected to be harvested within an opening time.
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I guarantee you it leads straight to the first nations delegates and chiefs pockets.
While i know of a few cases of direct chief involvement in the past. I would say that most do try their best they can to combat poachers/fish dumping ect and i feel what you just said is uncalled for accusation.
Its like saying the mayor of vancouver is involved from and benefits from all the crime that takes place in vancouver.
selling FSC fish tho seems to be a bit different from poachers, Seems there is a good amount of support from community's and chief to sell it. They believe it is the "social" aspect of FSC and point to cases like 5 nations and marshall.
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I've been hearing hwy 1 east from chilliwack is closed to Hope; so detours are in place. But those detours are extremely backlogged. I've only fished the bars near Hope in the past during sockeye season. So are most people just going to the local bars in CHilliwack like pegleg and gill?
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I'm sure Chuck has a license to sell if anyone was interested.
https://abbotsford.craigslist.org/bar/d/rosedale-fresh-fish/7531848882.html
Fresh sockeye and spring
$15.00 lb for sockeye
$3.50 lb for spring
Text 6047065228 for Chuck and address in Rosedale on the rez
Must pick up
Bring big cooler
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No shortage of these adds on craigslist. Cant imagine it would be too hard for a reporter to get a good story for their news outlet.
https://abbotsford.craigslist.org/for/d/hope-sockeye-salmon/7530636315.html
Fresh Sockeye salmon from
the fraiser river
Pickup only or delivery fee
- Call to order
-We get the fish
-Then we call you back
When your order is ready
for pickup.
Call the fish guy and order
today. (778-933-2559)
$15 for Sockeye & $2 a pound
for spring salmon.
The fish very in size.
Not cleaned
$2 fee per fish if you want
the fish cleaned
Looking for big orders
I'm interested in trades just ask if I'd. Trade for anything cool.
Fish guy (778-933-2559)
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Price went down as the season progressed:
https://abbotsford.craigslist.org/for/d/similkameen-fresh-sockeye-salmon/7520691717.html
Fresh as you can get sockeye Salmon fresh out of the river
From the river to your freezer within hours
$20 a fish $25 cleaned
Pick up only
Taking orders now
Looking for the bigger orders
8-10 pounded
Call now to place your order
778-933-2559
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I like this one, something we can all appreciate:
https://abbotsford.craigslist.org/for/d/similkameen-fresh-sockeye-salmon/7520691717.html
There are some postings on here by poachers selling illegally caught Sockeye salmon, there are no openings, it has been closed this year due to low numbers. Yet there are still these vile humans who think they are above the law and poaching our salmon(and dumping some) to sell, which could be spawning instead so we have more salmon in the years to come. Sustainability is important and we need everyone's help to stop these scumbags.
Don't support these poachers, report them; For fisheries violations related to salmon, contact Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO). You can also contact your local RCMP detachment or municipal police.
For more info:
https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/rec/ORR-ONS-eng.html
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While i know of a few cases of direct chief involvement in the past. I would say that most do try their best they can to combat poachers/fish dumping ect and i feel what you just said is uncalled for accusation.
Its like saying the mayor of vancouver is involved from and benefits from all the crime that takes place in vancouver.
selling FSC fish tho seems to be a bit different from poachers, Seems there is a good amount of support from community's and chief to sell it. They believe it is the "social" aspect of FSC and point to cases like 5 nations and marshall.
You said it Straight to the chiefs pockets sitting high on the hog while so many others go without.
Those fish are not legally sold. Social does not mean commercial.
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Hopefully the media attention Rod has started brings this to the attention of the leaders of our First Nations. Thanks Rod!!! Some of my family are First Nations "I haven't applied for status but can get it if I decided to" do get salmon from the ceremonial fisheries. Their is always an Elder their confirming your relationship to the band. I find it hard to believe that the leaders in the bands condone or even get a cut of illegal sales. Their are bad apples every where. Rod is being a leader for fisheries management which I think everyone should be envious of him for. I know I am.
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I was at Gill bar yesterday and had a good experience, met a lot of nice guys, some people caught their limit, but it was a slow day, I hooked some but couldnt land any....
Will be going out tomorrow again but maybe try some new spots idk....
last week I had a spring from vedder, removed the skin and dipped it in milk to remove the stink (using milk powder) and it tasted just like cod or halibut
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Hopefully the media attention Rod has started brings this to the attention of the leaders of our First Nations. Thanks Rod!!! Some of my family are First Nations "I haven't applied for status but can get it if I decided to" do get salmon from the ceremonial fisheries. Their is always an Elder their confirming your relationship to the band. I find it hard to believe that the leaders in the bands condone or even get a cut of illegal sales. Their are bad apples every where. Rod is being a leader for fisheries management which I think everyone should be envious of him for. I know I am.
Forgive me but so many are nieve about what truly goes on this is exactly what the chiefs and delegates have pushed for. Full access to do as they please. It is thier fish and nobody else's. They want an agreement to own the majority of the commercial sales of fish and when they don't get it they do it anyways. Then excuses lip service of a few bad apples. Give me a break. I know we all want to think this isn't the case but it is 100 percent what is going on. They wanted the deal to sell most of the catch that is why they are saying they got a crap deal this year. Sorry getting over a million sockeye is not a crap deal when rec sector only 0.02 percent if that.
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Looks like mikeyman thinks we need the commercial sector invovled? I agree.. Everyone needs to be apart of this.
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I was at Gill bar yesterday and had a good experience, met a lot of nice guys, some people caught their limit, but it was a slow day, I hooked some but couldnt land any....
Will be going out tomorrow again but maybe try some new spots idk....
last week I had a spring from vedder, removed the skin and dipped it in milk to remove the stink (using milk powder) and it tasted just like cod or halibut
No amount of milk soaking is going to make a white spring taste or have the texture of HALIBUT or COD. Makes good dog food though, gives my dog a nice soft coat.
For those who enjoy and partake in the sockeye harvest go and have at it, 4 years until you can again....maybe
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DFO's Mike Fraser on CKNW just now saying that many of the fish for sale are coming from FSC indigenous fisheries along with unsanctioned fisheries.
Confirmed by DFO
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DFO's Mike Fraser on CKNW just now saying that many of the fish for sale are coming from FSC indigenous fisheries along with unsanctioned fisheries.
Confirmed by DFO
Yep nice to see it getting attention finally. 👍
Say goodbye to Trudeau in a few short years.
It was said above the commercial should get involved. I always said in past it is about all 3 groups coming together to figure it out. Unfortunately every group fights for themselves instead of putting thier heads together for greater good of the salmon and economy. Sorry should be 4 groups rec commercial fn and dfo. Collaboration to have balance of conservation and in turn prosperity. So many ways to skin that cat. But unfortunately everyone fights and points fingers and wants it all. Pure greed is what it comes down to along with political motives. Sick we can't figure it out.
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First Corporate fishers greed... combined with destruction of fish habitat for business greed..... Now we see illegal fishing - greed.....
Our salmon deserve so much better...... BC salmon runs were a gift to our province.. we have mismanaged this resource from day 1.
PS - quickly cranking up / dragging up the beach a foul hooked / snagged Sockeye is not fishing. Giving BC residents a 10 day advanced course in how to snag salmon may not be an ideal strategy in our province in these times of salmon conservation.
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First Corporate fishers greed... combined with destruction of fish habitat for business greed..... Now we see illegal fishing - greed.....
Our salmon deserve so much better...... BC salmon runs were a gift to our province.. we have mismanaged this resource from day 1.
PS - quickly cranking up / dragging up the beach a foul hooked / snagged Sockeye is not fishing. Giving BC residents a 10 day advanced course in how to snag salmon may not be an ideal strategy in our province in these times of salmon conservation.
Completely agree. I wanted a tidal opening outside Fraser mouth. Can't believe they allowed snagging fish meanwhile they bite pink hootchies with your dummy flasher troll. All the while huge amounts of fish taken by seine nets and commercial troller then the biggest Gill netting fsc illegal sale fishery dfo f up more this year than I have ever witnessed. Disgusting vedder going to be full of Betty's and braid and 12 ft leaders as soon as the socs close.
All politics to appease one group.
I have never seen a river only opening. Who the f is making these descions? New people in positions they are not qualified for given marching orders for political truth and reconciliation reasons. Why is the government allowing this you ask?
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Completely agree. I wanted a tidal opening outside Fraser mouth. Can't believe they allowed snagging fish meanwhile they bite pink hootchies with your dummy flasher troll. All the while huge amounts of fish taken by seine nets and commercial troller then the biggest Gill netting fsc illegal sale fishery dfo f up more this year than I have ever witnessed. Disgusting vedder going to be full of Betty's and braid and 12 ft leaders as soon as the socs close.
All politics to appease one group.
I have never seen a river only opening. Who the f is making these descions? New people in positions they are not qualified for given marching orders for political truth and reconciliation reasons. Why is the government allowing this you ask?
The trolling gangs definitely have a lot of emission from burning gas which contribute to the climate change. Must have a way bigger carbon footprint than the gill net guys per fish.
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Not sure if it's the timing of the opening but I've never caught coho bottom bouncing before. Today the group of 4 I was in caught three and I saw a few more within close distance I had to tell guys were coho and to release. We got our 8 flossed sockeye and released two springs as well. Might be the only day I go out. I forgot how much I don't enjoy this fishery.
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I forgot how much I don't enjoy this fishery.
Amen.
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Not sure if it's the timing of the opening but I've never caught coho bottom bouncing before. Today the group of 4 I was in caught three and I saw a few more within close distance I had to tell guys were coho and to release. We got our 8 flossed sockeye and released two springs as well. Might be the only day I go out. I forgot how much I don't enjoy this fishery.
Then you should fish the lower Vedder/upper canal in a short while....there is at least a couple guys technically bottom bouncing with looooong lines below their lead tipped with beads above their hooks....they usually show up late afternoon when the fish are moving through the fast but shallow water.....works pretty good too. :( ::) :-\
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Then you should fish the lower Vedder/upper canal in a short while....there is at least a couple guys technically bottom bouncing with looooong lines below their lead tipped with beads above their hooks....they usually show up late afternoon when the fish are moving through the fast but shallow water.....works pretty good too. :( ::) :-\
No doubt as our government is now offering a 10 day advanced course in how to snag sockeye, coho and springs..... Our government has failed our salmon.... 10-20 years from now people will look back at these years and will be in disbelief in how we have mis-managed this incredible resource.
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Then you should fish the lower Vedder/upper canal in a short while....there is at least a couple guys technically bottom bouncing with looooong lines below their lead tipped with beads above their hooks....they usually show up late afternoon when the fish are moving through the fast but shallow water.....works pretty good too. :( ::) :-\
It's funny how so many boast about how good beads are then u see thier set up has over a 3 to 4 ft leader or more and the float is set to dredge. Figure it out you are flossing and snagging fish this way.
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Not sure if it's the timing of the opening but I've never caught coho bottom bouncing before. Today the group of 4 I was in caught three and I saw a few more within close distance I had to tell guys were coho and to release. We got our 8 flossed sockeye and released two springs as well. Might be the only day I go out. I forgot how much I don't enjoy this fishery.
Interior Fraser coho salmon abundance has been on the incline in the past ten years. Still not at where it should be, but it'd explain why you're encountering coho salmon now.
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Interior Fraser coho salmon abundance has been on the incline in the past ten years. Still not at where it should be, but it'd explain why you're encountering coho salmon now.
And the fact that one of the test fisheries caught over 60, that’s pretty unheard of in recent times
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It's funny how so many boast about how good beads are then u see thier set up has over a 3 to 4 ft leader or more and the float is set to dredge. Figure it out you are flossing and snagging fish this way.
We used to bb for sockeye this way with dink floats and lead slinkies, arm length leaders.
Then it evolved into two or three arm lengths and bouncing Bettie’s
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Looks like mikeyman thinks we need the commercial sector invovled? I agree.. Everyone needs to be apart of this.
the commercial sector can catch more fish in a day as the entire catch of Fraser sockeye this season. They also have representatives on the PSC Fraser panel and with DFO. If their top people calls the Minister she picks up the phone or returns their call. They are involved.
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And the fact that one of the test fisheries caught over 60, that’s pretty unheard of in recent times
some of those could be heading for the Vedder or the Harrison. I caught a coho while fly fishing for trout yesterday.
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I am just wondering if best fisheries management should be more local. I mean local as closer to the river the fish return to. Spending thousands of dollars of fuel in the open ocean to catch fish that are bound for who knows where? Let alone the pollution of burning said fuel. Is it not better to catch the fish lets say at the mouth of the skeena or in the skeena when we already know the test fisheries say its a good return. Is the quality of the fish less when caught lets say in the sandheads as caught in the fraser? Just questions that boggle my mind like shipping oil to other countries for them to refine it to gas and ship it back as gas while burning bunker fuel in tankers.
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The commercial fleet in Sandheads yesterday were equal to the amount of sporties, so sickening to see how much Salmon they will take
Without trying to target Sockeye, I still managed to land 2 beauty chrome socks then released, Many leapers everywhere.
Such a shame the saltwater fishers, get the shaft from DFO
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I am just wondering if best fisheries management should be more local. I mean local as closer to the river the fish return to. Spending thousands of dollars of fuel in the open ocean to catch fish that are bound for who knows where? Let alone the pollution of burning said fuel. Is it not better to catch the fish lets say at the mouth of the skeena or in the skeena when we already know the test fisheries say its a good return. Is the quality of the fish less when caught lets say in the sandheads as caught in the fraser? Just questions that boggle my mind like shipping oil to other countries for them to refine it to gas and ship it back as gas while burning bunker fuel in tankers.
I personally prefer the flavour of fish caught in saltwater as opposed to river. I believe i can taste the river in river caught fish. also, sockeye caught at sandheads have zero chance of going anywhere other than the Fraser.
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Marine sockeye salmon fishing opportunities have just been announced:
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=265729&ID=all
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The commercial fleet in Sandheads yesterday were equal to the amount of sporties, so sickening to see how much Salmon they will take
Without trying to target Sockeye, I still managed to land 2 beauty chrome socks then released, Many leapers everywhere.
Such a shame the saltwater fishers, get the shaft from DFO
DFO must have heard ya KH go get em!
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Looks like the lates have stopped holding and have entered the river, the best day for BB should be the last day its open.
https://www.psc.org/TestFish/DailyReports/14Sep22.PDF
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there are reports on FB that the CP and CN police have been ticketing angling crossing the Railroad tracks to access fishing locations. Fine is $600. Here is a story from a similar incident in Calgary:
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgarians-question-600-trespassing-fine-for-walking-beside-edworthy-park-train-tracks-1.5892225
Locations where fines have been issued reported to include Laidlaw (Goldpan) and the Snaggy bar area west of Hope on the #7.
For people like me who cross tracks to fish trout in the winter and early spring this may have longer term implications.
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there are reports on FB that the CP and CN police have been ticketing angling crossing the Railroad tracks to access fishing locations. Fine is $600. Here is a story from a similar incident in Calgary:
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgarians-question-600-trespassing-fine-for-walking-beside-edworthy-park-train-tracks-1.5892225
Locations where fines have been issued reported to include Laidlaw (Goldpan) and the Snaggy bar area west of Hope on the #7.
For people like me who cross tracks to fish trout in the winter and early spring this may have longer term implications.
I recall a few years ago the tracks at mamquam were subject to enforcement like this; but there was such bad publicity the railway smartened up and just hired a security guard to stop people from crossing. Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.
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I’ve always thought that the Canadian gov’t at the time gave away our national
soul to the devil. Strips of private land, thousands of kms long, along our most cherished rivers.
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Hindsight is 20/20, as they say.
I found a copy of the Conestoga farms ruling (circa 1990) where someone got charged with trespassing for fishing the Farm's stretch of the Alouette River. The farm was established by a federal land grant that provided riparian rights but preserved a right of way of fishing and trapping. Around the 1930s the Feds handed the land and the grant to the Province. The judge in the case ruled that since the Province didn't confirm the rights of way they became invalid on transfer. The trespass charge was upheld. It really struck me as a stupid ruling but it was never appealed.
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My advice do not pay the fine and have CP Rail try and enforce it. If CP rail, can afford to pay its CEO, an annual salary of $ 26.7 million dollars a year, then they can afford to put up no trespassing signs that are highly visible. Sounds like a disgusting money grab by a big multinational company.
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My advice do not pay the fine and have CP Rail try and enforce it. If CP rail, can afford to pay its CEO, an annual salary of $ 26.7 million dollars a year, then they can afford to put up no trespassing signs that are highly visible. Sounds like a disgusting money grab by a big multinational company.
yes. Crown Counsel may decide not to pursue it in court. But if they do and a summons is issued on the ticket. Go to court and/or pay or else there could be a contempt of court charge which is a criminal offense, and could involve much higher fines and/or jail time.
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What I was hinting at is was there adequate signage on the rail way tracks right of way. If there are no signs, then it is up to the company to post them and make them highly visible. Secondly, this fine is pretty prohibitive, and far exceeds what one would get for a driving offense such as distracted driving. Also don't want to play the race card, but does this ticket apply to everybody or are some groups excluded. Hmmmmm.....
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the rules and regulations that apply would be in the Federal Railway Safety Act and not the Provincial Trespass Act. AFAIK the act simply states walking or crossing railway property including the right of way other than designated crossings is trespass. I think a person would need a lawyer to challenge a ticket in court. Transport Canada has recommended signage and fencing in areas where is crossing is frequent but overall railway trespass is very broad.
It's dangerous, the trains cannot stop and I'd never cross if I knew a train was nearby. I'd also never cross if a railway police car was visible. :D
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https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/dfo-has-investigations-ongoing-into-fraser-river-salmon-poaching
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Good to see Mr Fraser touched on some of the issues in my letter namely they are able to draw on other resources including the Provincial CO service and the RCMP. Also good to see him confirm there are on going investigations and charges likely coming. In the last few previous years they did release info on seizure of illegal gear and charges.
Island Fisherman published a good article this month;What Happened to the 2022 Fraser River Sockeye Runs?
https://islandfishermanmagazine.com/what-happened-to-the-2022-fraser-river-sockeye-runs/
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We'll see in the coming weeks and months the result of these investigations or whether it's just lip service.
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Good to see Mr Fraser touched on some of the issues in my letter namely they are able to draw on other resources including the Provincial CO service and the RCMP. Also good to see him confirm there are on going investigations and charges likely coming. In the last few previous years they did release info on seizure of illegal gear and charges.
Island Fisherman published a good article this month;What Happened to the 2022 Fraser River Sockeye Runs?
https://islandfishermanmagazine.com/what-happened-to-the-2022-fraser-river-sockeye-runs/
My vote is still let them pass. I fished where there was a proper TAC and there was no chance of IFS or IFC. If anything they should have opened it for a week in July or early Aug. The roe fishery also needs to be seriously addressed. Hopefully the closure of Gill to vehicles is a step in that direction.
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Chinook salmon fishing has opened in the non-tidal Fraser River.
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=265930&ID=all
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Chinook salmon fishing has opened in the non-tidal Fraser River.
https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fns-sap/index-eng.cfm?pg=view_notice&DOC_ID=265930&ID=all
well thats exciting. I got out today and finally had success. Also experienced being spooled by a chinook. :-\ I think I let my emotions overtake my head too much haha one bad fishing experience isnt always an indicator. One guy got fine for keeping a coho. Happy to see enforcement.
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You got spooled as in all your line ended up in the river?
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You got spooled as in all your line ended up in the river?
yep thats why I put the sad face. Hate when stuff like that happens but it happens to the best of us. :-\
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That's terrible. I've seen a few people reporting that they got spooled. All that line in the water will be killing some birds and wildlife unfortunately.
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That's terrible. I've seen a few people reporting that they got spooled. All that line in the water will be killing some birds and wildlife unfortunately.
It still isn't near as bad as all the line in the water from snagged up Sockeye gear.
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That's terrible. I've seen a few people reporting that they got spooled. All that line in the water will be killing some birds and wildlife unfortunately.
I've thankfully yet to experience getting spooled, either in the river or the salt. I've certainly had Chinook take plenty of line and have to chase them downstream a bit, but never to the point I was seeing the bottom of my spool. Maybe I run my drag too tight, have definitely broken a few off. Is it just plain bad luck or anything one could do to avoid it? Seems like worst case could you not just point the rod tip straight at the fish and break it off at the leader like you would a snag, or does it happen too fast for that? Again, I can only speculate what the options would be, not having been in the situation.
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Never ever in my entire 40 yrs fishing career have I been spooled and lost all of my line to a fish. I have chased several downstream and broken a few off before all my line was gone.
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Never have been spooled in my life. Guess I've never caught any fish that is worthy.
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Yeah, I figured getting spooled can't be all that common. I guess one answer to my own question above about how to avoid it is probably to use a reel with adequate line capacity and keep it full - which I do.
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I have hooked a few fish in the past that have almost spooled me. Please don't take the chance of getting spooled again. Wrap your line around your reel and break the fish of when you see your down to 10 or so wraps on the spool. Your line will then break probably at the knot or close. KEEP your ROD straight pointing horizontal towards the fish so you don't damage your rod. This is what I do and have never been spooled. I have however lost alot of line a couple times when the line broke on one of my guides. Make sure your guides also don't have any grooves in them. Rod maintenance is as important as Reel maintenance.
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I guess how much line is on the reel to start with is an important factor. Not hard to blast a big bouncing betty 150 feet or more. If that's close to half what's on the reel getting spooled is a reel possibility.
I am a believer in reels with more than ample capacity. I am sure to fill them. I consider something in the range of 200 yards is a minimum for big strong fish.
Some suggestions; make sure your leader is at least a few lbs lighter than your mainline. If more than half your line shoots out either follow the fish downstream or stop the run either by tightening the drag or stopping the spool with your hand. Use the most strongest knot available to fix the line to the reel arbor. The so called arbor knot isn't meant to withstand that sudden yank that happens when a reel is spooled.
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I guess how much line is on the reel to start with is an important factor. Not hard to blast a big bouncing betty 150 feet or more. If that's close to half what's on the reel getting spooled is a reel possibility.
I am a believer in reels with more than ample capacity. I am sure to fill them. I consider something in the range of 200 yards is a minimum for big strong fish.
Some suggestions; make sure your leader is at least a few lbs lighter than your mainline. If more than half your line shoots out either follow the fish downstream or stop the run either by tightening the drag or stopping the spool with your hand. Use the most strongest knot available to fix the line to the reel arbor. The so called arbor knot isn't meant to withstand that sudden yank that happens when a reel is spooled.
I still consider myself new to salmon fishing and dont have the best gear. For today I switched to a 5000 series reel gifted to me by a carp angler, incase it happened again. Luckily I didnt have to deal with it . Still got out with my limit of sockeye tho. I caught 4 sockeye total in 3 trips. I learned a lot about landing big fish and overall not a horrible experience. The fishing gets boring due to the repetitive nature but no fishing is ever that easy so not complaints. I saw conservation each time so im happy most people not following the rules have got punished. For a fishery that only occurs every 4 years and the only opportunity to catch some sockeye semi locally I would go again in the future. The fish are tasty, fight well and good size. For the rest of the salmon season I will be hitting the vedder trying to catch some chinooks and coho and maybe chum in the stave if it opens. Overall very excited for whats to come. Hopefully this rain comes sooner than later.
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I have just been told that the sockeye opening for the non-tidal Fraser was extended to Thursday to coincide with the chinook salmon opening. It's not super clear in the fishery notice for the chinook salmon opening, but it's open...
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Might that opening also be for the Sandheads?
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Might that opening also be for the Sandheads?
No I don't think so actually. I'm trying to get specific details this afternoon.
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Ok, after some messages and phone calls back and forth, here it is. I'm C&Ping this from my Facebook page.
IMPORTANT! Please share.
I have been getting numerous messages regarding salmon fishing openings in the non-tidal portion of the Fraser River. There was a miscommunication in the fishery notices which went out on Friday. Because an amendment cannot be released until Tuesday to correct them and we want to make sure anglers are aware of the fishing opportunities available in the meantime, we're doing something a bit unconventional here. I have been communicating with resource management and enforcement at Fisheries and Oceans Canada this afternoon so I can distribute the updates. Here are the corrections and clarifications:
* CPR Bridge in Mission to Carey Point (Jesperson's) *
Chinook, coho, pink and chum salmon fishing is CLOSED. Sockeye salmon fishing remains open until SEPTEMBER 21ST, daily quota is TWO.
* Carey Point (Jesperson's) to Hwy 1 Bridge in Hope *
Effective until SEPTEMBER 21ST 2022, you can retain FOUR chinook salmon per day (only one over 50cm).
You can retain TWO sockeye salmon per day. You have to release all coho, chum and pink salmon.
* Hwy 1 Bridge in Hope to Alexandra Bridge *
Effective until SEPTEMBER 25TH 2022, you can retain FOUR chinook salmon per day (only one over 50cm).
You can retain TWO sockeye salmon per day. You have to release all coho, chum and pink salmon.
The aggregate daily limit for all species of Pacific salmon from tidal and non-tidal waters combined is four (4).
There is a bait ban in effect.
Fishing is permitted during daylight hours only which refers to one hour before sunrise to one hour after sunset).
The last day of salmon fishing for the section downstream from Hope is 21st instead of 22nd as stated on Friday's notice because 22nd is in fact the start date of the Interior Fraser steelhead protection window.
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Ok, after some messages and phone calls back and forth, here it is. I'm C&Ping this from my Facebook page.
IMPORTANT! Please share.
I have been getting numerous messages regarding salmon fishing openings in the non-tidal portion of the Fraser River. There was a miscommunication in the fishery notices which went out on Friday. Because an amendment cannot be released until Tuesday to correct them and we want to make sure anglers are aware of the fishing opportunities available in the meantime, we're doing something a bit unconventional here. I have been communicating with resource management and enforcement at Fisheries and Oceans Canada this afternoon so I can distribute the updates. Here are the corrections and clarifications:
* CPR Bridge in Mission to Carey Point (Jesperson's) *
Chinook, coho, pink and chum salmon fishing is CLOSED. Sockeye salmon fishing remains open until SEPTEMBER 21ST, daily quota is TWO.
* Carey Point (Jesperson's) to Hwy 1 Bridge in Hope *
Effective until SEPTEMBER 21ST 2022, you can retain FOUR chinook salmon per day (only one over 50cm).
You can retain TWO sockeye salmon per day. You have to release all coho, chum and pink salmon.
* Hwy 1 Bridge in Hope to Alexandra Bridge *
Effective until SEPTEMBER 25TH 2022, you can retain FOUR chinook salmon per day (only one over 50cm).
You can retain TWO sockeye salmon per day. You have to release all coho, chum and pink salmon.
The aggregate daily limit for all species of Pacific salmon from tidal and non-tidal waters combined is four (4).
There is a bait ban in effect.
Fishing is permitted during daylight hours only which refers to one hour before sunrise to one hour after sunset).
The last day of salmon fishing for the section downstream from Hope is 21st instead of 22nd as stated on Friday's notice because 22nd is in fact the start date of the Interior Fraser steelhead protection window.
thanks for the clarification Rodney
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Just wondering why in the announcement it states "Effective immediately until September 25, 2022, in the waters of the Fraser River from the downstream side of the Highway One Bridge at Hope, BC to the confluence with Sawmill Creek," what does it mean by the downstream side of the bridge, I thought it was upstream of the bridge.
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I think , but may be I'm wrong . Scale Bar has the only access to fishing around #1 Hope bridge .
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It’s been a long time since I’ve fished up there but isn’t Croft island bar directly below the bridge ?
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Just wondering why in the announcement it states "Effective immediately until September 25, 2022, in the waters of the Fraser River from the downstream side of the Highway One Bridge at Hope, BC to the confluence with Sawmill Creek," what does it mean by the downstream side of the bridge, I thought it was upstream of the bridge.
I think it means the boundary is the lower or south side of the bridge
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The way I see it, if the creek enters the Fraser downstream from the bridge, you can't fish under the bridge. If it enters the Fraser upstream, you can.
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I think it means the boundary is the lower or south side of the bridge
I think you're right.
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How many years have fishery notices been published...
And they still can't make it clear...
Must have a university degree in basket weaving...
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How many years have fishery notices been published...
And they still can't make it clear...
Must have a university degree in basket weaving...
;D im not sure why but every government document uses the most confusing language
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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-poaching-fears-rise-as-fraser-river-salmon-are-dumped-to-rot-even-as/
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in terms of sockeye fishing above the hope bridge do not waste your time. There are no gravel bars or suitable spots, just big rocks, snags, and sturgeon fisherman. The spots with no rocks have no current so bottom bouncing doesn't work.
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Fair amount of finners and jumpers on this afternoon’s tide in the north arm.
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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-poaching-fears-rise-as-fraser-river-salmon-are-dumped-to-rot-even-as/
had a person tell me that does municipal garbage for the city of maple ridge tell me that they were picking up dumpsters full of salmon from the katzi reserve.
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had a person tell me that does municipal garbage for the city of maple ridge tell me that they were picking up dumpsters full of salmon from the katzi reserve.
If you think its a problem report to DFO, include pictures.
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had a person tell me that does municipal garbage for the city of maple ridge tell me that they were picking up dumpsters full of salmon from the katzi reserve.
The Katzi are a small band. I think there are about 400 people living on the reserve which is actually in Pitt Meadows west of the Goldenear Bridge.
They have been quite involved in selective fisheries inovations including beach seining and fish wheels.
From when I worked in Government the impression I got from some of the management was that the band had an excellent reputation and high credibility.
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Yeah they have a pretty good reputation, I believe DFO has a got a few cases against illegal buyers from them the last few years.
If o remember right the are one if the more well off bands.
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If you think its a problem report to DFO, include pictures.
Very good advice, wish I would of came up with it
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If it comes to that then I say we all fish anyways. Protest and then some. They going to fine all of us? Go ahead. Do what they do. Fish anyways since it is our right. Shouldn't be any different at this point.
F dfo.
”They can’t fine all of us.” Amen.