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Author Topic: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon  (Read 23730 times)

chris gadsden

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #60 on: April 21, 2012, 09:22:48 AM »

It seems Routledge is looking for the attention rather than the attention looking for Routledge. The Public Relations Department at SFU announced on April 18th that he was available to comment. Apparently Global took him up on it. I wonder if they will interview anyone who is an expert in fish diseases?

http://www.sfu.ca/pamr/issues-experts/2012/bc-fish-controversy-intensifies.html


]A very good idea, you should get Dave and others pro's from this site together and approach Global Vancouver and do a story.
Try to get Mary Ellen to join you.

The link is  "globalbc.newstips@globaltv.ca" <globalbc.newstips@globaltv.ca> Ask for Linda Aylesworth or Ted Field.

Please let us know when the story will run.

absolon

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #61 on: April 21, 2012, 10:34:28 AM »

Curious that you know the procedure and have that link at hand.

Is there a story behind that you haven't shared with us?
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chris gadsden

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #62 on: April 21, 2012, 11:08:05 AM »

Curious that you know the procedure and have that link at hand.

Is there a story behind that you haven't shared with us?
No real story but I have free lanced as some on this forum know, for BC TV, now Global with a number of news stories over the years, I think I have given them about 13 stories during the last 10 or more years with 10 or 11 airing. Also I have been in front of the camera a few times, one with Chris Galius where we were rescuing stranded chum because of a flood on the Vedder River. You must have seen it. ;D We had a permit to do so. ;D ;D

The only one close to one of my news stories I shot being about fish was with Dave,  ;D ;D many years ago when he worked for FOC and it was about sockeye dying on the Harrison. Need to look that tape up and see what he said. ;D ;D ;D. This was well before fish farms were a topic of discussion. Dave has a copy too, he may want to review. I believe the thought was they were dying of a Parvicapsula infection. The samples were send away for testing, I never heard what it was but Dave may remember what the results were.

Hope this answered your question and good luck with Ted and Linda.

Dave

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #63 on: April 21, 2012, 12:04:11 PM »

Yup, it was Parvicapsula and it was indeed before fish farms became the threat they have become to some ;)
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absolon

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #64 on: April 21, 2012, 12:04:29 PM »

Good on you Chris. I said of you some months back that I had no doubt you were full of life. This confirms it.
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chris gadsden

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #65 on: April 21, 2012, 06:33:38 PM »

Yup, it was Parvicapsula and it was indeed before fish farms became the threat they have become to some ;)
Don't tread on me. ;D ;D ;D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadsden_flag

troutbreath

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #66 on: April 22, 2012, 09:31:06 AM »

Tea Party symbol
Beginning in 2007 at Ron Paul Rallies , the Gadsden Flag has become an adopted symbol of the American Tea Party movement. Nationwide it serves as an addendum to the stars and stripes, stressing the Tea Party platform. It was also seen being displayed by members of Congress at Tea Party rallies. Some lawmakers have dubbed it a political symbol because of the Tea Party connection, and the political nature of Tea Party supporters.

Pretty impresive legacy you got going there. :)
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another SLICE of dirty fish perhaps?

shuswapsteve

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #67 on: April 22, 2012, 10:02:34 AM »

You really need to check your facts....   Morton doesn't do the testing on the fish, she never has. All the samples she collects are sent to qualified labs for testing.

As far as fish farmers not allowing access.... if I had something to hide I wouldn't want to allow access either. Do you think the fish farms would have self reported that they were catching and killing wild salmon along with the farmed stock?

I didn't say that Morton did the actual testing of those smolts.  I mentioned the River's Inlet fiasco to illustrate that Morton's advice on those samples was sought by Routledge.  We all know know how well those samples were preserved, but that didn't stop Morton or Routledge from trying to score some media points.  Apparently, it never occured to Morton to even ask the basic questions on how those samples were taken and preserved.....but then again she isn't a fish pathologist.  Sorry to burst your bubble, AF.

As for the fish farms not self reporting you fail to realize that annual reports of the industry were published on the provincial website.  If you really think they were "hiding" something then you need to provide some evidence.  So far you have squat.
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shuswapsteve

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #68 on: April 22, 2012, 10:32:34 AM »

No, as I alluded to already, she was never given the time "to do a proper study".  As I said, I do not blame the farmers for not wanting her to test their fish. Just stop saying she could have done a proper study but chose not to.  That is just not true.  Whatever their reasons, the farmers refuse to allow her to test their salmon (even if she were to take it to a reputable lab for independent analysis).  So stop with the ad hominem attacks on her character trying to make it sound like she had an opportunity to test the farm salmon directly.

The industry gave opportunities to Morton in the past to work on this collaboratively.  She chose to go on the path she is on now.  This recent virus scare shows that Morton is not interested in good science.  If she were she would have also considered the debate that surrounds the PRV and HSMI and not jump to conclusions.  It is not a given that those two things are associated with one another; however, she conveniently plants the seed once again.  For your own knowledge, in 2010, the province looked found PRV was common in Atlantic Salmon, but that the infection was not related to the disease.  The province also found that PRV was not associated with wild fish.  In 2008, 150 juvenile Pink Salmon (note that I said juvenile) in a retrospective analysis of saved tissue samples.  None of them had suspicious heart lesions, all were tested for piscine reovirus anyway; all results were negative—no virus (Saksida et al. 2012).

It wasn’t a proper study because she failed to consider the other literature on the topic as well as actually looking at the tissues themselves.  Morton basically wanted to rush this out as quick as she could.  When you cut corners this is what happens.  As for attacks on her character that is nonsense.  If she is going to go out on a limb like this a be critical of other scientists of their findings then she should expect no different treatment.  When you are a RPBio that comes with the territory.  If you remember it was Morton that depicted government scientists in a very disrectful cartoon on her blog during the aquaculture portion of the Cohen Inquiry.  Who is really the one attacking?

Saksida, S.M., G.D. Marty, S. St-Hilaire, S.R.M. Jones, H.A. Manchester, C.L. Diamond, and J. Bidulka.  2012.  Parasites and hepatic lesions among pink salmon, Oncorhynchus gorbuscha (Walbaum), during early seawater residence. J. Fish Dis. 35:137-151.
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Sandman

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #69 on: April 22, 2012, 01:25:39 PM »

The industry gave opportunities to Morton in the past to work on this collaboratively.  She chose to go on the path she is on now.

When exactly was this?  I do not remember such an invitation being extended to her.  I apologize in advance if that was the case.

  This recent virus scare shows that Morton is not interested in good science.  If she were she would have also considered the debate that surrounds the PRV and HSMI and not jump to conclusions.  It is not a given that those two things are associated with one another; however, she conveniently plants the seed once again.  For your own knowledge, in 2010, the province looked found PRV was common in Atlantic Salmon, but that the infection was not related to the disease.  The province also found that PRV was not associated with wild fish.  In 2008, 150 juvenile Pink Salmon (note that I said juvenile) in a retrospective analysis of saved tissue samples.  None of them had suspicious heart lesions, all were tested for piscine reovirus anyway; all results were negative—no virus (Saksida et al. 2012).

I thought the reason the government scientists ignored the discovery of PRV in the farmed salmon was because they found it in wild salmon as well (without any increase in disease rates in those cases) so they concluded that PRV must not be not related to HSMI.

As for attacks on her character that is nonsense.  If she is going to go out on a limb like this a be critical of other scientists of their findings then she should expect no different treatment.  When you are a RPBio that comes with the territory.  If you remember it was Morton that depicted government scientists in a very disrectful cartoon on her blog during the aquaculture portion of the Cohen Inquiry.  Who is really the one attacking?

If what you say is true, then you both are.  Two wrongs do not make it right.
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shuswapsteve

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #70 on: April 22, 2012, 10:46:05 PM »

When exactly was this?  I do not remember such an invitation being extended to her.  I apologize in advance if that was the case.

I thought the reason the government scientists ignored the discovery of PRV in the farmed salmon was because they found it in wild salmon as well (without any increase in disease rates in those cases) so they concluded that PRV must not be not related to HSMI.

If what you say is true, then you both are.  Two wrongs do not make it right.

No apologies necessary because I admit that I do not have an exact date when this happened.  The fish farm industry made attempts to work collaboratively with Ms Morton back when sea lice was the flavour of the day.  This information has come from blog responses from the people in the industry.  This came up when people were questioning why Morton wasn’t allowed to test at fish farms.  Now one can say that fish farmers are lying, but I think there was a time when the collaboration was possible.  After Cohen, these virus scares in the media and the demarketing campaign being waged I doubt that is even possible anymore.  It is too bad that divisions are as wide as they are now.

Government scientists didn’t ignore PRV.  What they did that Morton didn’t do is actually look at the tissues themselves for disease.  It didn’t just involve just looking for the virus.  People make the false assumption that having a virus means that you always have a disease.  As Miller’s study displayed, even healthy fish can have a virus.

How am I attacking her character?  It is her methods and her study design which I question.  In my opinion, Morton has made assertions which are not substantiated with an actual defensible study.  She is supposed to be a RPBio.  There is a certain level of expectation that comes with that.  In her blog, there is no mention of methods followed other than she went to these supermarkets with these other ladies to purchase these “gutted” fish.  There is also no chain of custody mention and more importantly we really have no idea where the fish really came from.  In fact, she is still trying to find out, but subtly linking this to the BC industry apparently made more sense at the time.  There is also no mention of controls for this study.  She makes conclusions without even becoming aware of all the literature on the subject.  If you read the abstract from the study she posted on her blog those researchers looked at the actual tissues of the fish (i.e. cardiac tissue).  On the other hand, Morton was working with gutted fish so she was not able to properly assess for disease through histological examination, but she does not really make that disclaimer known in her blog.  Previous work by the province involved looking at the tissues for disease – not just looking for the virus.

Sorry, but Morton does not get a free pass on this from me because she couldn’t test fish directly from the farms.  It is all the more reason why she could have shown a little more restraint in her blog.  I can tell you for a fact that government scientists or biologists with private consultants are not treated with kid gloves for these types of glaring omissions.  Many of the things Morton missed in her “study” are well known by those doing this work already.   A reputable biologist should be aware of a proper study design.  In my opinion, Morton is not qualified to do this type of work.  Someone more competent from her side needs to be involved in any testing.  That is why I do not feel she should be doing any testing of farmed salmon on BC farms.  That is not attacking her character.  If farm critics feel she should not be questioned about her methodology and study design then she has no business being a RPBio.
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alwaysfishn

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #71 on: April 23, 2012, 07:50:52 AM »

]A very good idea, you should get Dave and others pro's from this site together and approach Global Vancouver and do a story.
Try to get Mary Ellen to join you.

The link is  "globalbc.newstips@globaltv.ca" <globalbc.newstips@globaltv.ca> Ask for Linda Aylesworth or Ted Field.

Please let us know when the story will run.

Good on you Chris!  I'm sure we're all looking forward to a rash of pro-feedlot interviews in the future....   ;D  ;D   I haven't seen much of their propaganda on TV since that silly campaign they ran a year or so ago.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 07:54:05 AM by alwaysfishn »
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Disclosure:  This post has not been approved by the feedlot boys, therefore will likely be found to contain errors and statements that are out of context. :-[

Bassonator

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #72 on: April 23, 2012, 04:23:23 PM »

Good on you Chris!  I'm sure we're all looking forward to a rash of pro-feedlot interviews in the future....   ;D  ;D   I haven't seen much of their propaganda on TV since that silly campaign they ran a year or so ago.


We dont need to, Morton and Stanford have done quite good for us... ;D
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Take the T out of Morton.

chris gadsden

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #73 on: April 23, 2012, 04:58:12 PM »


We dont need to, Morton and Stanford have done quite good for us... ;D
Cop - out. ::)