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Author Topic: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon  (Read 23733 times)

Dave

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2012, 08:34:41 PM »

  To be plain, has anyone ever seen fish like what Ms. Morton buys regularly in big name stores?  If so, where.
Again, anyone ...
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Sandman

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2012, 10:09:26 PM »

Again, anyone ...

Just what are you suggesting Dave?  From where do you suppose she got the Atlantic Salmon in BC?
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VAGAbond

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2012, 01:09:54 PM »

Quote
"I think that it is probably quite unscientific to test samples from a supermarket. There is no research design

Ms. Morton isn't doing scientific investigation, it is forensics where you work with the evidence you have.   It seems she has found several smoking guns.  Now it is up to the 'authorities' to check the fingerprints, ballistics, alibis etc.  Problem is that it is not apparent to interested observers, many of us, that the authorities are taking the smoking guns seriously.    Maybe they know better in which case they need to share their insight with us.
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Dave

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2012, 03:47:26 PM »

Good stuff Chris, you found Staniford!  We were wondering when he would arise from the ashes ;D
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troutbreath

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2012, 05:08:33 PM »

No doubt someones working on a cure to HSMI. Only problem is that the cure might end up causing your next offspring to be born without body parts or heart and muscle problems.

I know that will not stop some people from chowing down on those toxic morsels. 
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another SLICE of dirty fish perhaps?

alwaysfishn

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2012, 06:23:20 PM »

Good stuff Chris, you found Staniford!  We were wondering when he would arise from the ashes ;D

Wow Dave, You are really starting to worry me!

Chris posts an article about the PCBs, dioxins and agricultural pesticides such as toxaphene and dieldrin found in farmed salmon and all you can get from it is that you found Staniford. I suggest always reading the title as it will give you a hint of what to actually be looking for as you read the article.....   :D

Or do you just hit Ctrl F and type in Staniford without even bothering to read the articles?   ???


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Dave

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2012, 07:18:57 PM »

Appreciate your concern af. But no, just glad Don has found a home as the world desperately needs clowns :D
But hey, since you asked, do you really think we should be comparing contaminate loading in those sampled Scottish salmon to BC salmon?  Conditions don't appear similar, at least from that article.

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alwaysfishn

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2012, 09:38:18 PM »

Appreciate your concern af. But no, just glad Don has found a home as the world desperately needs clowns :D
But hey, since you asked, do you really think we should be comparing contaminate loading in those sampled Scottish salmon to BC salmon?  Conditions don't appear similar, at least from that article.


The conditions are probably the same in BC.....  we just haven't been made aware of it.   :'(
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aquapaloosa

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Chicken farm, pig farm, cow farm, fish farm.

shuswapsteve

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2012, 10:52:54 PM »

Ms. Morton isn't doing scientific investigation, it is forensics where you work with the evidence you have.   It seems she has found several smoking guns.  Now it is up to the 'authorities' to check the fingerprints, ballistics, alibis etc.  Problem is that it is not apparent to interested observers, many of us, that the authorities are taking the smoking guns seriously.    Maybe they know better in which case they need to share their insight with us.

Let me get this straight…..Alexandra Morton is a member (Registered Professional Biologist) of the BC College of Applied Biology, holds an honorary doctorate degree from Simon Fraser University, has been author and co-author of scientific reports published in peer-reviewed journals, but she isn’t doing scientific investigation in this particular case - rather forensics where you work with the evidence you have?  So, forensics do not involve “scientific investigation”?  Instead, it is up to the “authorities” (the ones she does not trust in the first place) to check out her claims to see if they are valid?  I totally disagree.  At some point the “authorities” are involved, but they are not responsible for holding her hand while she is doing this “study”.  One would think that if Morton is as competent as she claims to be (given the number of papers with her name on them) then she would take the time to do it right.  If Morton is supposed to be a reputable scientist wanting defensible data then there is no short cut.  A clear chain of custody is imperative when you conduct sampling – especially for samples destined for DNA analysis.  What methods and protocols were employed in the collection and preservation of these samples – other than just going to the store?  Do we know much more about these fish other than they were purchased at these stores?  If she wants credibility then it has to be earned with some actual scientific investigation.  This again falls short.

After reading Morton’s findings, I am surprised that not many people have commented much on the size of these fish (regardless of their general condition on the outside).  If the majority of these fish had a deadly disease then why did they survive to market size?  HSMI tends to affect younger fish and not these larger fish that Morton apparently purchased.  I agree with Dr. Marty when he says that the finding of this reovirus in these larger fish is good evidence that the reovirus is very common in Atlantic Salmon, but not the cause of disease in these fish.

I believe Dr. Kristi Miller is doing good work, but farm critics might want to know more about her recent findings as they might not align with their new-found love for DFO scientists (you know…the scientists they love to call corrupt and biased).  In fact, Dr. Miller’s recent study of ISAv in farmed Chinook was much better than Ms Morton’s.  Dr. Miller’s results were linked to data from licensed veterinarian that sampled the fish and a board-certified veterinary pathologist who did the examination.  Sections of organs were examined under a microscope.  At this point it should be noted that actual “scientific investigation” is being used by people that know what they are doing.  There was no going to the store and asking the store clerk or whoever where the fish came from.  There was no “flying-by-the-seat-of-your-pants” type of science or rush to get this out the door to score media points.  I doubt there were chain of custody issues given that a person like Dr. Miller is involved.  The results were that the prevalence of ISAv was the same in healthy fish as it was in unhealthy fish.  I believe Dr. Miller makes mention of this in Cohen Inquiry testimony.  Although the results still need to be confirmed it provides strong evidence that whatever Dr. Miller was finding was not the cause of the disease in the farmed Chinook.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 10:58:28 PM by shuswapsteve »
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Sandman

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2012, 11:13:34 PM »

One would think that if Morton is as competent as she claims to be (given the number of papers with her name on them) then she would take the time to do it right.  If Morton is supposed to be a reputable scientist wanting defensible data then there is no short cut.  A clear chain of custody is imperative when you conduct sampling – especially for samples destined for DNA analysis.  What methods and protocols were employed in the collection and preservation of these samples – other than just going to the store?  Do we know much more about these fish other than they were purchased at these stores?  If she wants credibility then it has to be earned with some actual scientific investigation.  This again falls short.
[/quote]

In the articles posted above, Morton herself admits that testing store bought salmon is not her first choice, and she says she has asked for access to the farms to test their fish directly, but they have refused...but who can blame them.  I wouldn't want anyone testing my disease free, toxin free, tasty pink fleshed salmon either.

After reading Morton’s findings, I am surprised that not many people have commented much on the size of these fish (regardless of their general condition on the outside).  If the majority of these fish had a deadly disease then why did they survive to market size?  HSMI tends to affect younger fish and not these larger fish that Morton apparently purchased.  I agree with Dr. Marty when he says that the finding of this reovirus in these larger fish is good evidence that the reovirus is very common in Atlantic Salmon, but not the cause of disease in these fish.

In the article aquapaloosa posted, Morton says these fish were undersized.  Could this be because the farmers harvested them early after detecting the virus and before any disease killed them?  Furthermore, even if these fish were only carriers of the virus, the danger is the spread of the virus to wild fish passing near the pens or eating smaller fish that swim through the pens, which could later succumb to disease as they make the stressful journey to the spawning beds...but we all know THAT could never happen.

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troutbreath

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2012, 12:17:51 AM »

I had this weird dream where Dave (who I've never seen) looked like Staniford and was doing serious damage at the dinner table to some farmed salmon. Next thing I know he can't type or talk because of some sort of muscle disorder. ???


" But no, just glad Don has found a home as the world desperately needs clowns " :-\


Eat em til you can't put the fork to your mouth. :-*
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Dave

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Re: New Norwegian Virus In Supermarket Farm Salmon
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2012, 07:50:15 AM »

I had this weird dream where Dave (who I've never seen) looked like Staniford and was doing serious damage at the dinner table to some farmed salmon. Next thing I know he can't type or talk because of some sort of muscle disorder. ??


 ;D
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