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[mr.pink]

 just wondering why they don t stock the squish anymore?we really could use another quality steelhead river in the lower mainland
would ease pressure on the vedder,chehalis and the smaller rivers.maybe not a hatchery,but at least add some spawning channels.it was my first time to the upper squamish this week,what a great river,it s big,clean and needs fish,lol.

[DragonSpeed]

Isn't there the Tenderfoot hatchery? 

[redside1]

the Tenderfoot hatchery is a DFO hatchery doing chinook and coho. WLAP is not about hatcheries and providing a fishing oppurtunity, they are about do nothing and hope some come back.

[mr.pink]

 yeah,the tenderfoot use to do steelhead,but don t anymore?whats up with that?the money we spend to catch fish,and let them go?it makes no sense.

[bkk]

Tenderfoot hatchery is a DFO hatchery that enhances coho, chinook and some years, Pinks for the Squamish system. Steelhead fry were stocked for about 9 years but were discontinued by order of Ministry of Enviroment (now WLAP) as they wanted this system to be a "wild" system only. Since that time, the stocks have crashed, particuarly in the upper Squamish and Mamquam Rivers. While the reasons for the crash have been well documented, steelhead stocking would have still provided fish in this survival downturn period. As Redside 1 stated, WLAP is not about providing fish or fishing oportunities, but about doing nothing and hopeing something comes back to the rivers.

 Mr. Pink there are spawning/rearing channels on this system, particuarly on the Cheakamus and at Shovelnose Creek. Most were built by DFO or with Forrest Renewal money which is long gone back into general revenue and are primarly designed for salmon production. However, Shovelnose, Ashlu and two channels on the Cheakamus were built with steelhead components in them. Nothing of significance has been built by the Province. No big surprise there. You wrote: "My first time to the upper squamish this week,what a great river,it s big,clean and needs fish". Your right, it is a great river but it only runs clean durring the fall and winter. The rest of the year it's very cold and glacial with visability  measured in inches. It also needs fish ( steelhead) and the only way that is going to happen is to put pressure on your MLA and they can then put pressure on the government to fund a serious recovery program. If that dosen't happen, then continue going to the upper Squamish for a nice drive as there won't be any steehead there. All in time for the world to see in 2010.

[~IvAn~]

"WLAP is not about providing fish or fishing oportunities, but about doing nothing and hopeing something comes back to the rivers."

If their not doing $H!%, but sit in there just to warm their frigging chairs how the heck would it come back? Its just like sitting on a chair waiting for a million bucks to drop outta the sky  damn this  gov't pisses me off!!

[mr.pink]

 thx for the replies,but i guess i m preaching to the converted,lol. its just such a waste,and with the amount of pressure on the vedder! by the way have you guys seen this?cheers
 
 http://www.gem.state.ak.us/Symposium/Presentations_2005/Session2/David_Welch.pdf

[itosh]

....it was my first time to the upper squamish this week,what a great river,it s big,clean and needs fish,lol.

As you have stated it is a big river, therefore, unless you were really lucky, you would need to fish it several times to even get an idea as to where the fish are.  Once you have walked and explored the river a bit, I think you would want to edit the last "needs fish" part.  It may have less fish than the hatchery rivers in the FV, but it also has considerably less pressure.  Just curious, but why would you want that system to become more crowded?

Shane

[bkk]

Itosh,

 I've lived in the Squamish Valley for 20+ years and I have a very good idea where the fish live, and in the last buch of years, it is'nt in the Squamish. It despertly needs fish. The steelhead run is going, going, going ............. I sure hope that it dosen't blink out soon but it might. It has gotten that poor. While I don't want to see a "Vedder" up in this part of the world, I sure would like to see some steelhead again. I think if it means we might have to use a hatchery to get it, then I think that might be the way we have to go. The Province is not buildinging any significant habitat restoration projects in this watershed so it's unlikely we will see a increase of good habitat anytime soon. A modest amount of native Squamish hatchery steelhead would sure be a lot better than no fish at all. The char fishery is nice but they sure are not steelhead.

[Fish Assassin]

Any theories that the steelhead are disappearing ?

[Rodney]

That river is a hard river to fish, the runs change almost yearly so you have to explore new spots every year...

Not almost yearly, try monthly.

Any theories that the steelhead are disappearing ?

Correct me if I am wrong bkk, the main cause of the disappearance is the poor state of spawning habitat at Squamish tributaries, where most steelhead primarily spawn?

What are the main problems with the tributaries by the way? I took a glance several times and from what I saw, they are lack of shading from trees, low discharge?

The discussion of the cost and benefit of hatcheries in Southern BC streams has been a hot topic for the last little while. I think readers have to keep in mind that, fishing opportunities/productivity is not the primary indicator of a stream's health. More is not always better. On the other hand, some is better than none. Trying to manage the Squamish as a wild system is somewhat naive when the river faces so many negative human impacts - ie. logging, fishing pressure, historical damages done by human. It needs some positive human intervention to reverse the damages that were done in the past, which are the poor state of the habitat, and diminished fish stocks. Pumping large quantity of steelhead smolt into it is not the answer, but there should be a long term plan that shifts towards sustainability.

[rln]

What are the main problems with the tributaries by the way? I took a glance several times and from what I saw, they are lack of shading from trees, low discharge?

The main problem is the lack of any lenght to the tributaries. Steelhead all spawn in the creeks like shovelnose. At one time way back when, all those small streams would come off of the hillside travel along the valley floor for a few kilometers and then join up with the squamish. With the river moving so much from valley side to valley side with each highwater event, all these creeks except for shovelnose now come off of the hillside and pretty much directly into the squamish so we are now missing many kilometers of spawning and rearing habitat. To continue with a wild only system, we need to greatly increase the amount of spawning and rearing habitat.

[Old Black Dog]

Used to be a Hatchery river.
WLAP stopped it and now they have no money and will fight you on adding hatchery fish.
The groups involved are divided on hatchery's , BCWF, BCFFF, BCFDF and BCSS.
So WLAP uses this to say it is WILD.
The lower mainland now has a big population and people hate fishing on the Vedder as it is to crowded for them.
However, they are saying that it is alright to have the Vedder as long as their river is not crowded.
It is all about them and not for anyone else.

[mr.pink]

....it was my first time to the upper squamish this week,what a great river,it s big,clean and needs fish,lol.

As you have stated it is a big river, therefore, unless you were really lucky, you would need to fish it several times to even get an idea as to where the fish are.  Once you have walked and explored the river a bit, I think you would want to edit the last "needs fish" part.  It may have less fish than the hatchery rivers in the FV, but it also has considerably less pressure.  Just curious, but why would you want that system to become more crowded?

Shane

 my fishing bud grew up there in squamish,why would i want to edit needs fish.it does.more crowded?there was no
one there,while smaller rivers are fished to within an inch of there lives.don t you think it would be better?less pressure on them?why would you not? i think i know why,cheers

[itosh]

my fishing bud grew up there in squamish,why would i want to edit needs fish.it does.more crowded?there was no
one there,while smaller rivers are fished to within an inch of there lives.don t you think it would be better?less pressure on them?why would you not? i think i know why,cheers

Ummm, not sure what you mean or what you are getting at but what I meant was that there are plenty of fish in general in the Squamish.  There are lots of Dollies/Chum/Pinks and even the Coho have seemed to increase enough to permit a fishery.  If you mean by "needs fish" is referring to Steelhead, then yes, I guess returns are quite low compared to historical numbers.  My POV is that, I would rather get skunked fishing for Steelhead and catch a bunch of Dollies as by catch on a less crowded river than get skunked on the Chilliwack/Chehalis fishing in a crowd.  Without getting into the politics of a hatchery (which I have very little knowledge of), I guess it comes down to whichr you value more, catching a fish or fishing in an uncrowded atmosphere.

Shane