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[RalphH]

Gord, bet you know, I was being kind of sarcastic. Perhaps your new Filipino friends let you go first because they are familiar with some of your posts  ?

Oh excuse me, there I go again!

Back to Roeman's post. I could play the same game and say my parents and grandparents had nothing to do with what white people did to the FNs because I am a first generation Canadian. My parents settled here before I was born. Only 2 of my Grandparents came here and one died within a few years of arrival.

My Dad used to like to fish the Fraser at McMillan Island back in the 60s and he was told to talk with the Band Chief if he wanted to fish on the rez. So him and I went to his house and the Chief was very nice, he invited us into his place and gave him permission to fish whenever he liked. I'd neve seen amnIndian before. They had kids a few years younger than me (I was 7 or . I looked at those kids and thought they looked like average kids, pretty much like me.

Afterwards my Dad told me the truth about Indians. He said few peoples in the entire world had been as badly treated as the original people of North America. The land was theirs and they mostly welcomed those who first came to North America. Later almost all their land was taken away In BC they were settled on tiny reservations hardly fit live on. Once they were rich for their circumstances now they were among the poorest of people in our country. He thought this was horribly unfair.

FWIW this was rather unusal for him - he was also bigoted and intolerant on many other issues.

[GordJ]

Gord, bet you know, I was being kind of sarcastic. Perhaps your new Filipino let you go first because they are familiar with some of your posts  ?

Oh excuse me, there I go again!

Back to Roeman's post. I could play the same game and say my parents and grandparents had nothing to do with what white people did to the FNs because I am a first generation Canadian. My parents settled here before I was born. Only 2 of my Grandparents came here and one died within a few years of arrival.

My Dad used to like to fish the Fraser at McMillan Island back in the 60s and he was told to talk with the Band Chief if he wanted to fish on the rez. So him and I went to his house and the Chief was very nice, he invited us into his place and gave him permission to fish whenever he liked. I'd neve seen amnIndian before. They had kids a few years younger than me (I was 7 or . I looked at those kids and thought they looked like average kids, pretty much like me.

Afterwards my Dad told me the truth about Indians. He said few peoples in the entire world had been as badly treated as the original people of North America. The land was theirs and they mostly welcomed those who first came to North America. Later almost all their land was taken away In BC they were settled on tiny reservations hardly fit live on. Once they were rich for their circumstances now they were among the poorest of people in our country. He thought this was horribly unfair.

FWIW this was rather unusal for him - he was also bigoted and intolerant on many other issues.

You are absolutely right (for a change, lol) Joe Gabriel was one of a kind. And I am sure that they sent me first as bait.

[salmonrook]

I’m curious what you think the real underlying issue is, SB?

Me too !
 I guess I am the one trolling now  .

[salmonrook]

The last few days, Jay has totally been trolling the Facebook crowd. It's sad how gullible the haters are. He's posting pictures of chum he caught in previous years calling them 'northern Coho', and they are ready to hang him for it. The internet wins this week.

Really sad that there is someone who instead of just enjoying a time honoured outdoor hobby needs validation by trolling people on the internet . I could care less about some snagger on the internet. I care more that people abuse a precious resource with no respect for it or their fellow anglers .

As for the CO's enforcing the rules , that wont happen because they lack the manpower , though no fault of their own .
Simple way would be to close the canal , and maybe the rapids below Tamihi , another location known for snagging .
 

[RalphH]

You are absolutely right (for a change, lol)

the you will be shocked to know that over many years I have with few exceptions been agreement with what you have written online.

[SuperBobby]

Simple way would be to close the canal , and maybe the rapids below Tamihi , another location known for snagging .

Now you want to close below Tamahi too? You should probably include the entire Allison Pool section then. Maybe throw in the whole Lickman/Peach section. Definitely too many snaggers by the train bridge also. The 'slab' would be an absolute shut down.

You make no sense. This idea of shutting down sections of the river because of 'snaggers' is just stupid.
Every section that gets shut down is just going to increase the snagging on other parts of the river and make it more crowded.

You remind me of those with the rediculous 'gun laws' mentality. They say that if you take away guns from law abiding citizens that there won't be anymore mass shootings. That's not how reality works and you need to learn that.

Criminals will always have guns to shoot other people with.... and snaggers/poachers will always be poaching/snagging no matter what laws are introduced or even enforced.
The sooner you understand that, the sooner you will stop being angry about things you can't control.

[RalphH]

Closing large sections of the Chilliwack will likely move all the nonsense somewhere else.

Changing people's attitudes can help. I admired Petr Herman when he said he catches enough for his needs and then stops fishing ...for the season. One guy posted limits he caught on 7 consecutive days, that's 28 fish. Seems excessive to me. I  might do that once or twice in the season but afterwards I'd want a change of pace, like trout fishing.  Reducing the number of fish available would be another approach but certain not to be popular. There could other things equally not welcome by most. Me I just don't go. I'd planned to scope out some walk in spots earlier in the season but the timing didn't line up for me. Maybe this winter or next year I'll put in the time. But I have other places to fish though they are not as productive yet they are more satisfying in many ways the Vedder can't match.

[wildmanyeah]

It’s the angling success that causes all the crowds and when it’s really good guy are calling out all their buddies that would normally not be around.

Cut the hatchery production and you would cut the crowds guaranteed.

It’s the sockeye mentality

Everyone that goes into the gong show needs to know what to expect and as they say go with the flow. If your going out there thinking your gonna get space, then your already going out with the wrong mind set.

Have to go into it with the right frame of mind and you will save your self an headache.

[SuperBobby]

Cut the hatchery production and you would cut the crowds guaranteed.

This doesn't work, and it's something Ralph said recently as to why. It's basically the idea of having 'harvest' fisheries etched into your memory
He was talking about how they cut the hatchery cutthroat stocking to the Fraser river and backwaters. It's been years since they have clipped cutthroat. There are none left....but we've been fishing the Fraser backwaters for decades hoping to get a 'hatchery' cutthroat. It's etched in memory that a 'harvest' fishery for them exists

Problem is.... I am still seeing guys today in the Fraser backwaters and sloughs hauling cutthroat up the banks before checking them. They say, "too bad...another wild one".... until I tell them that there are no hatchery fish left and they need to stop hauling them up the banks.

It would be the same thing with the Vedder. After the last 45 years of plentiful harvest, it would take YEARS for people to realize that there is nothing (or very little) to take home. In the meantime, the fewer remaining wild fish would be getting hauled up the banks by 'hopefuls' who still think their catch might be a legal fish.

The best solution for right now is to leave the Chilliwack/Vedder as is for the most part. It is a harvest river where the wild fish seem to hold their numbers year after year....even with all the pressure. It's not a perfect situation, but it's not completely broken either. The best thing they could do right now is to heavily increase enforcement. The fines would EASILY pay the wages. Just plain common sense here.

[fic]

Isn't The Vedder Chinook Hatchery production is reduced back down to 1 Million from 2 Million. We should see fewer of them next year and fewer people bragging about how many springs they caught.

[wildmanyeah]

I remember dink floating, pink wool in the Chehalis over 25 years ago shoulder to shoulder. Went out there again last year, there was only a hand full of people, one guide on the other side doing a walk a wade with someone and that's it.

good fishing brings the crowds 

I am not saying they should reduce the hatchery production, I'm just saying the good fishing is the primary driver for all the people.

Isn't The Vedder Chinook Hatchery production is reduced back down to 1 Million from 2 Million. We should see fewer of them next year and fewer people bragging about how many springs they caught.

They did, Also I believe the Coho a bit too as to many were returning to the hatchery. Chum too but I don't no if that got reversed or not.

[RalphH]

The Chilliwack fall salmon fishery is a by product of the hatchery feeding a heavily promoted saltwater fishery. Any attempt to cut that back will meet pushback from that sector which has a lot of clout. DFO could cut the coho hatchery production by half and set the limit to 2 fish and it would still have an excellent in river fishery. That still will run afoul of the sport fishing industry in the chuck and it may still be super crowded anyway.

[redside1]

Isn't The Vedder Chinook Hatchery production is reduced back down to 1 Million from 2 Million. We should see fewer of them next year and fewer people bragging about how many springs they caught.

the upswing in production was done for srkw concerns.
1 million will still be a lot of Chinooks.

[roeman]

Hopefully things will go back to normal with the fall rains.  After yesterdays rain there are lots of areas to fish that are over looked till the creepers start seeing you hook a bunch.  Hopefully it rains 10-20 mills everyday for the next few weeks to keep the river up. 
Already starting to drop from yesterday.

[Spawn Sack]

I used to do a lot of first light coho fishing on the Vedder.. Now I don't. Have noticed a big shift in the lack of respect/étiquète, and a swing towards entitlement. "Back in the day" I usually be the first one at my spot (430-5am). And as other rolled in they'd show respect to the guy(s) there before them, ask if there was room to squeeze in, and so on. Guy(s) who showed up too late would realize, ah dang it, this spot is kind of full, guess I'm going to have to go elsewhere.
Then somewhere that line of thinking went out the window. Seems a lot of guys would show up like 5 minutes before you could see your float, and just squeeze in. Not a word said, hood up, zero f**cks given.
I had enough when it happened several times where I had to walk a spring down or whatever, or bonking/dealing with a fish on shore, and I come back to where I was fishing, and it seems to have "disappeared." In other words, the other guys fishing around me (likely buddies) squeezed me out of my spot. After words were exchanged they'd shuffle a bit to let me back in, but then they'd be dicks about it, casting right on my float, etc. You get the picture.
I finally had enough and only do the canal by boat now for 1st light. If I want to shore fish I'll do the late afternoon - dusk shift. Catch less coho but seems most of the jerks have gone home by then.