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[iblly]

Anyone who thinks the “other” group isn’t extremely  eager to have full control of all these things being discussed here is delusional and I don’t blame them for trying either. Human nature to want to have more control. I am not First Nations myself but I have many First Nations friends and family, including my eldest daughter who I adopted 32 years ago. Many discussions we’ve had about these things. Trust me a large portion of them want it all ! Many just want equal access for all. As far as B, P and R the other side is equally as guilty of those things. There’s my two cents for what that’s worth.

[RalphH]

Anyone who thinks the “other” group isn’t extremely  eager to have full control of all these things... Human nature to want to have more control.

Maybe they are but the apparent facts are they aren't about to get that through this process and that rather than Human nature, is  the issue.

I'd also say that most people who at least have some awareness of how "human nature" might effect their impulses in a negative way are able to resist such impulses and reach more equitable sorts of social contracts. If that were not true we wouldn't things like democracy and many of it's features.

[Roderick]

Funny you should mention democracy.  Democracy is about majority rule.  In a democracy, public land is administered by officials elected by the majority, and not administered by a small minority of a specific ancestry. 

And yes iblly I also don't blame them for wanting it all.  I mean who doesn't?

[iblly]

You’re correct Ralph that was the issue being discussed in the beginning here but you quickly steer things in another direction, as you do, when you point out someone’s spelling mistake in your second post on the subject. Why ? Followed by “bigotry, prejudice, racism” etc. All I was pointing is that I’ve had discussions with First Nations people about these very subjects and I have some insight.

[RalphH]

Funny you should mention democracy.  Democracy is about majority rule.  In a democracy, public land is administered by officials elected by the majority, and not administered by a small minority of a specific ancestry. 
 [/size]

That's only partially true. Most democracies are constitutional democracies and the constitutions lays out basic rules, limits and protections of freedoms and minorities. Even in non-constitutional governments such as the UK Common Law system there are laws that limit what the "majority" can invoke on minorities. Democracy does not automatically mean majority rules and practically it does not. It's basic political right for individuals is we all get to vote for who we'd like to be part of government. That vote doesn't mean a voter has a voice in government or even a representative  who they helped select. The majority of voters in fact do not in Canada where most governments are formed by parties that receive less than 50% of popular support. Most democratic governments are in essence a coalition of different interests that forms together around a few common goals. Even the parties that form governments in almost all democracies are similar coalitions of different interests - so no majority rule doesn't really typify democracies - dictatorships often are but democracies are about selecting governments based on wide public participation via the ballot box. 

[RalphH]

You’re correct Ralph that was the issue being discussed in the beginning here but you quickly steer things in another direction, as you do, when you point out someone’s spelling mistake in your second post on the subject. Why ? Followed by “bigotry, prejudice, racism” etc.

Well I am otherwise at a loss to explain the immense bad faith expressed by many people on so many issues concerning FN participation in land management. Perhaps someone has a better explanation other than "a difference of opinion".

I pointed out in my first post there was absolutely nothing to support concerns  about FNs getting a veto or broader control over use of Crown land. So even when the government admits they managed the consultation process badly and withdrew it these accusations got worse. As I have said before  I have worked in government and have seen this sort of things happen before. Sometimes these processes are F'd up and they meet opposition because of that but that is all it is - a F'd up. That isn't evidence of a conspiracy.

re: Provence vs Province - get a life ibilly - you need a sense of humor. That was so mild!  Besides the post I responded to was off topic.

[iblly]

Very mild but very Ralph. I have a lovely life thank you. Enjoy your Sunday.

[redside1]

has anyone actually seen the exact legislative changes the government is/was proposing or is it "trust me, everything will be fine. We are looking after the best interests of the people of BC" ?
I see how that's going for hunters in BC. Science is out the door on management decisions being made.

[SuperBobby]

has anyone actually seen the exact legislative changes the government is/was proposing or is it "trust me, everything will be fine. We are looking after the best interests of the people of BC" ?
I see how that's going for hunters in BC. Science is out the door on management decisions being made.

What they did to non FN moose hunters in 7b is absolutely criminal. Science had NOTHING to do with the decisions made there. The FN wanted us out of their hunting grounds for moose and they got what they wanted. Coming soon to other hunting areas in the near future......

[chardeemacdenis]

What they did to non FN moose hunters in 7b is absolutely criminal. Science had NOTHING to do with the decisions made there. The FN wanted us out of their hunting grounds for moose and they got what they wanted. Coming soon to other hunting areas in the near future......

What a lot of folks don't realize is how remote some of these communities are. With that remoteness comes chronic under employment and lack of resources. Many folks can't drive an hour to town to spend a few hundred on groceries. They rely on an abundance of game close by to fill their freezer throughout the year. Like it or not they have a constitutional right to live that way and we are compelled to support it.

With that said there were *hundreds* of moose LEH authorizations provided to non FN hunters in 7b last fall.

edit: 1,837 LEH moose tags were issued for 7b last year...

[DragonSpeed]

Funny you should mention democracy.  Democracy is about majority rule.  In a democracy, public land is administered by officials elected by the majority, and not administered by a small minority of a specific ancestry. 

And yes iblly I also don't blame them for wanting it all.  I mean who doesn't?

We probably should have thought of that when they were the majority and we, as the minority came in and messed it up, I guess.

[RalphH]

We probably should have thought of that when they were the majority and we, as the minority came in and messed it up, I guess.

Amen to that! My further thought on what Roderick said was who is the majority and what makes you (and a few others) think you speak for them?

[RalphH]

has anyone actually seen the exact legislative changes the government is/was proposing or is it "trust me, everything will be fine. We are looking after the best interests of the people of BC" ?
I see how that's going for hunters in BC. Science is out the door on management decisions being made.

there weren't any as yet as in no changes to the law had been officially drafted. Did you read what was on the Government website? It was just a rough sketch and they were looking for public input.

[RalphH]

Upper Squamish area has "private property - do not trespass - Squamish Nation" signs all over the place.  We'll see how this all play out.

If you have Google Earth you can get a plugin that will then display all the FN Reservations in Canada. There is quite a lot of land from the the Cheakamus Mouth into the upper Valley that is reservation land and it is private it is also not Provincial Crown land so not impacted by any changes to the Land Act in this regard.

[Roderick]

We probably should have thought of that when they were the majority and we, as the minority came in and messed it up, I guess.

Ya well things were different back then.  Each FN band was on it's own.  They would send war canoes to the neighboring bands to raid for slaves and women.  Dead Mans Island in Stanley park was the site of a big battle where many warriors were killed on both sides.  There were no metal tools because there were no mines.  Governments were hereditary.  Ya, I guess we messed that up. 

But even if we wanted to, we can't go back.  We have to live together in the world that exists today.