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Author Topic: This has been a big disappointment  (Read 4959 times)

dobrolub

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Re: This has been a big disappointment
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2020, 09:32:34 AM »

It's always great for us all to be equal after taking everything away from one group.
speak for yourself and please return everything you personally had taken from this group. i took nothing from this group.
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Tylsie

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Re: This has been a big disappointment
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2020, 10:29:09 AM »

They are citizens plus, Meaning they have all the rights of a Canadian Citizen plus they have rights and titles. Its not supposed to be equal.

Just be happy with the fact that you don't live in a cupcakes hole like most of them and don't need need the few pennies form harvesting fish.  Still living and wanting to be like savages harvesting fish.

When was the last time you seen First Nations start up a multimillion dollar biotech firm and live in the 21st century? Think about it, its why 99% of canadians could give a rats my friend about handing some fish to them.

If you think about it like this you will realize why some of them think they are still children of the state.

What a strange comment... Sure it is true I have never seen a multimillion dollar biotech started but a First Nation but I do know a few who have started up very successful businesses in other fields and I do know 1 who is a biochemical engineer. Granted that isn't a lot, but she is the only biochemical engineer I know so she trumps all the other races I guess (I am not sure the metric we are measuring by)

I am not saying that First Nations in the Country have not had horrible things done against them, and to an extent still do. But there are lots of success stories and more and more are emerging every month. There will always be some who will continue to view themselves to be "children of the state" but many others decide to forge their own path. I see no substantive reason why a First Nation could not start a multi million biotech company.

But back to the video, thank you Rod. It is way passed the point of pointing fingers. Or should I say passed the point of pointing them at anyone but the politicians. It is simply about votes. Sport Fishers are a tiny percent of the population so they were sacrificed first but that didn't solve the issue. Now they are sacrificing the North. The number of North Fraser salmon, those that make up the runs around Prince George are being counted in the 10s, not thousands or even hundreds they were just a few years ago; in the teens. The First Nations up there will be sacrificed so that the Lower Fraser Bands won't cause too many political ripples. But what happens when even all the fish down here are gone?

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redside1

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Re: This has been a big disappointment
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2020, 11:28:43 AM »

check out the Osoyoos band for being forward thinkers and doing a great job creating wealth and employment for their people.
I believe other bands could do the same in their areas with they tried to. Just too many wanting to live like it's still 1756 or 1824. The World has changed.
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dobrolub

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Re: This has been a big disappointment
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2020, 12:25:34 PM »

those were the times. could i go back but keep my Daiwa Luna, Flurocarbon and Owner hooks ? I also need Drennan floats, lead weights and my Shaver spoons ?

No, times have changed and so did the ways of life.
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4x4

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Re: This has been a big disappointment
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2020, 12:28:02 PM »

They are citizens plus, Meaning they have all the rights of a Canadian Citizen plus they have rights and titles. Its not supposed to be equal.

Just be happy with the fact that you don't live in a cupcakes hole like most of them and don't need need the few pennies form harvesting fish.  Still living and wanting to be like savages harvesting fish.

When was the last time you seen First Nations start up a multimillion dollar biotech firm and live in the 21st century? Think about it, its why 99% of Canadians could give a rats my friend about handing some fish to them.

If you think about it like this you will realize why some of them think they are still children of the state.

There are many First Nations businesses and business men and women. During my working career I've dealt with many of their companies and I can tell you that they are as good and professional as any company out there. From high end wineries to logging equipment mfging to restaurants.......

When it comes to fisheries most bands comply within their rights but some don't and this is well known. Imo DFO have to make the what should be a new approach to saving the Salmon the same for every user group including natives. The ones that don't comply (over fishing, selling fish on the side, fish dumps because they can't sell them....) need to pay for those actions.
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firstlight

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Re: This has been a big disappointment
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2020, 05:20:38 PM »

Rod i appreciate all you do for our resource and i remember many years ago how i admired your enthusiasm as i once had a lot of enthusiasm and donated my time for different things by volunteering etc. etc.

After doing it for so long and seeing how things have progressed over the years it wears on you and thats where i see you at now.

I know you will never throw the towel in as you have too much invested in all of this and hopefully you get to see some positive in the whole scheme of things fishy.

Thanks once again for everything you do for sport fishing and the fish and i hope you keep at it for another long while.
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chris gadsden

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Re: This has been a big disappointment
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2020, 04:51:30 AM »

I see all your frustrations as I have been working on fishing issues since 1984 when Fred Helmer Junior and I started the Fraser Valley Salmon Society together, many of you were not born then. ;D

At this time of year I first met Rod and took him fishing at the Squashed Tin, we caught some nice coho salmon that day along with Jon Beaty. I guess they were the good old days and things have gone down hill at lot. Even me as never seem to make time to write The Journal like I did back then. ??? Those days I wrote them to spark interest in this site. I need to print them up one day but need someone to edit them. :-X

I was away for a week so only now working on the videos and pictures I took of the Demo fishery at the the launch at Island 22, I will have videos up here and on my and other FB pages.I could not stay for it all as had to leave for a previous commitment. The one with Fred and FOC's Mike Fraser is interesting, stay tuned.

RalphH

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Re: This has been a big disappointment
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2020, 07:50:52 AM »

The problem is not FN rights. There is and will never be a society where are all rights are equivalent or equal for every individual. FN rights can't be taken away, even if Canada were broken up those rights have to be respected in the deconstructed parts.

The problem is a shortage of fish. I have been here long enough to remember when the population of BC was about 1 million people. It's over 4 times that now. The number of people has gone up the number of fish down. Most of us can figure that out.

wildmanyeah

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Re: This has been a big disappointment
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2020, 08:38:37 AM »

The problem is not FN rights. There is and will never be a society where are all rights are equivalent or equal for every individual. FN rights can't be taken away, even if Canada were broken up those rights have to be respected in the deconstructed parts.

The problem is a shortage of fish. I have been here long enough to remember when the population of BC was about 1 million people. It's over 4 times that now. The number of people has gone up the number of fish down. Most of us can figure that out.

If you acknowledge first nations right and you acknowledge that first nations have the fastest growing population. Then the conclusion is that in the near future they won't be any fish for anything else. The good news is its still relatively easy for anyone to buy fish off first nations. Tho i hear the price this year was steep, over 20 bucks for a sockeye and Chinook was going for as much as 22 bucks a pound. 

I guess there is a good reason why fish farms are so popular. That atlantic salmon in all our sushi restaurants is still very affordable.
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RalphH

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Re: This has been a big disappointment
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2020, 09:30:02 AM »

FN population growth is starting to slow as FN women gain an education and pursue careers.

skaha

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Re: This has been a big disappointment
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2020, 09:40:48 AM »

--There are not enough fish...yet we impose the strictest measures on the smallest quota holder...it just doesn't make sense.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 09:56:28 AM by skaha »
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RalphH

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Re: This has been a big disappointment
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2020, 06:33:42 PM »

--There are not enough fish...yet we impose the strictest measures on the smallest quota holder...it just doesn't make sense.

That's double speak. The Rec sector has been taking South Thompson chinook all along this season...just not in Fraser itself.

cdjk123

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Re: This has been a big disappointment
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2020, 06:55:53 PM »

Copypasted from my reply on Rod's FB post:

I agree there has been severe mismanagement by the DFO, and I honestly donít think anyone would disagree with that. However, in order for the Fraser River Sport Fishing Alliance and the Fraser Valley Salmon society members to be taken seriously, the racist undertones and over tones need to be purged from the ranks.

Exhibit A is this: https://youtu.be/CZqh_3z1w4s?t=8

Listen to the guy in the background. This is REGULAR talk I hear from sport fisherman all year, many of whom are vocal members of the FRSFA and the FVSS. I hear it on the river, I hear it at Freds, I hear it at Sea Run, etc. Itís everywhere. I also hear it from prominent members in the fishing community. The message of sportfishers being allowed to fish, and reshaping DFO practices has been diluted to: ďNatives are badĒ, and itís extremely harmful to the brand. Until that rhetoric is removed from itís members, donít expect much public support.

I canít take either side seriously when thereís talk like that. And quite honestly, you and I know that type of talk heard in the video is just the tip of the iceberg. Everyone reading this has heard much worse.
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clarki

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Re: This has been a big disappointment
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2020, 09:51:06 PM »

Copypasted from my reply on Rod's FB post:

I agree there has been severe mismanagement by the DFO, and I honestly donít think anyone would disagree with that. However, in order for the Fraser River Sport Fishing Alliance and the Fraser Valley Salmon society members to be taken seriously, the racist undertones and over tones need to be purged from the ranks.

Exhibit A is this: https://youtu.be/CZqh_3z1w4s?t=8

Listen to the guy in the background. This is REGULAR talk I hear from sport fisherman all year, many of whom are vocal members of the FRSFA and the FVSS. I hear it on the river, I hear it at Freds, I hear it at Sea Run, etc. Itís everywhere. I also hear it from prominent members in the fishing community. The message of sportfishers being allowed to fish, and reshaping DFO practices has been diluted to: ďNatives are badĒ, and itís extremely harmful to the brand. Until that rhetoric is removed from itís members, donít expect much public support.

I canít take either side seriously when thereís talk like that. And quite honestly, you and I know that type of talk heard in the video is just the tip of the iceberg. Everyone reading this has heard much worse.

Well said.  That chatter caught my attention as well. And you're absolutely right.

Having said that, I will be anyone and disagree that there has been severe mismanagement. No doubt there are management decisions that, looking back, DFO would say "Well, we could have done better with that one". But, I suggest that most decisions are made (1) with the best data at the time, and (2) to support laws, regulations, and policies that the some members of the public disagree with, or are not aware of.  What might be severe mismanagement to some, is likely just management according to unstated, or unpopular, policy. That's not mismanagement, that's just unpopular management.   

Kudos to the organizers of the the demonstration fishery.  The protest appeared professional and principled and protest is one tool in the citizen's toolbox to effect policy change.

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RalphH

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Re: This has been a big disappointment
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2020, 06:59:17 AM »

Thank you Clarki. Very easy to shout "severe mismanagement" from the sidelines.

Also to follow some comments about population numbers to discredit FN fishing rights, how many people actually showed at the demonstration fishery on the 9th? Information on the turn out and why some attendees were ticketed by DFO has been lacking.