Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.  (Read 29777 times)

skaha

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1043
Re: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2020, 11:53:01 AM »

  "It is time to take measures if wild steelhead are to be part of British Columbia’s future. We do not have much control on steelhead ocean survival but do have a moral obligation to do whatever we can when they return to freshwater.  We cannot afford to wait any longer before taking action."

--Could not have said it better so just agreeing with the quote.  Agree or not, I always respect those who offer potential solutions.
Logged

Wiseguy

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 741
Re: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2020, 12:13:26 PM »

Thanx for this Dave. I would make one amendment to #4. Take the fly fishing March 1 to 31 out and replace with regular angling. On a side note I doubt the crowds would diminish.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 04:33:21 PM by Wiseguy »
Logged

psd1179

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 731
Re: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2020, 12:18:39 PM »

I agree, these posts should be developing discussion.  Along those lines, here is something a Provincial fisheries technician and I wrote 20 years ago.  The tech was almost fired for putting his name on it ..

Saving Vedder steelhead


Are wild steelhead populations on the C-V declining, holding their own,or increasing? Sadly there is scant data to suggest any of the 3 above scenarios have credence. The last snorkle-swim steelhead count conducted on the Chilliwack-Vedder system revealed what many have suspected for a long time – that despite catch and release regulations since the mid 1970’s wild, early run steelhead are not increasing in numbers and may in fact be decreasing. This is not a situation unique to the Vedder; several Vancouver Island streams are closed to angling due to alarmingly low numbers of fish.

The float count, conducted by Aquatic Resources Limited  Feb.15-18/00, revealed a total of 209 fish, of which an unknown number were adipose clipped hatchery fish. Obviously, not all of the fish present in the river were seen.  In some pools a known number of radio tagged fish  were present; not all of these fish were observed by the floaters. 

Geneticists suggest that when a population of animals dips to 200 individuals, the genetic diversity ( that is, the very characteristics that make that stock, or race, unique) is at risk of being unable to meet the “challenges”, ie. climate change, disease, changing water temperatures/levels that enable a species to survive. Diversity means strength and stability and for whatever reasons early run winter steelhead are possibly losing the challenge of being adaptable.

 Until we fully understand the mechanisms and processes that are driving the decline of wild steelhead, and other salmonids, it is imperative we take steps to halt the descent while in the freshwater environment.

The premise of this recovery plan is based on increasing the utilisation of the recently constructed Watershed Restoration and Fisheries Renewal projects in the Chilliwack River valley by increasing the numbers of spawners which in turn would increase numbers of fry and parr. This would be accomplished by allowing early run hatchery fish (progeny from the previous generation of wild fish) to spawn. Thankfully, the gene pool in the Chilliwack -Vedder system is still somewhat intact and because the numbers of wild fish are thought to be low, hatchery fish spawning will enhance the genetic diversity rather than harm it.

Here’s how we do it:

1.    Stop production of steelhead at the Chilliwack River Hatchery. 

2.   Change angling regulations on the Chilliwack –Vedder to catch and release for all steelhead/rainbow trout, year round, including the future generations of fin-clipped fish due to return.

3.   Allow angling using single, barbless hooks until Feb.28(9), any gear or lure.

4.   From Mar.1 to Mar.31. regulations change to allow fly fishing only; from Apr.1 to Ap.30 fly fishing only from Tamihi Bridge down, again single, barbless hooks.  Close river completely from May 1 to June 30.

5.   Transport hatchery steelhead arriving at the hatchery in late March- April, to areas considered suitable for steelhead, ie Upper Chilliwack River (Dolly Varden Creek), off channel habitat areas like Centennial and Yukalup channels, Slesse and Foley Creeks.
Continue this practice until hatchery (marked) fish no longer home in on hatchery water

6.   Divert the money spent to produce steelhead at the Chilliwack River Hatchery (app. $100,000 annually) to initialise, maintain and monitor an instream fertilisation program in the Chilliwack River watershed. This would of course benefit all species, not just steelhead. 


7.   Promote and encourage habitat enhancement projects in the mid and lower river areas.



8.   To allow anglers the opportunity of harvesting (killing) steelhead, increase hatchery production on the Chehalis, Allouette, Stave and Campbell River systems.




With proper tourism promotion we think this plan would have a beneficial impact on the local economy.  A quality, no kill, and dramatically less crowded fishery would attract many out of town anglers, especially during the fly only season (think Skeena system south, minus the jet boats).  Such regulations would win the accolades of conservation groups, environmentalists, guides and outfitters and, we think, any angler who is concerned about saving Vedder steelhead.

It is time to take measures if wild steelhead are to be part of British Columbia’s future. We do not have much control on steelhead ocean survival but do have a moral obligation to do whatever we can when they return to freshwater.  We cannot afford to wait any longer before taking action.





Just something to discuss.  Personally I don't think the appetite is there for a C&R only steelhead fishery on this river, but I still dream.


Fly only may be too strict, how about bait ban since Dec to April. The bait ban is period implied in Capilano, it would work in Vedder.
Logged

avid angler

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 370
Re: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2020, 01:48:29 PM »

I am not for the fly only regulation. In my opinion the extra pressure the last 10 years has forced these fish out of the best staging and spawning areas in the upper river. It’s not that there even being caught that many times. It’s the endless barrage of gear all the fishable runs up there see now.

10 years ago you would only have a couple guys fish those runs a day and they would still see hours of rest. There was way more fish spawning in the fishable section of river back then. Now every decent spot from slesse to slab is basically pounded from dawn to dusk. Tired of the endless harassment they just move on until they get past the boundary. To protect these early fish the best course of action would be no angling from anyone in the upper from mid March-early April on. Guys swinging fly lines over there head would still push them out of this prime habitat.

If the ministry was willing to go to the effort they could accomplish the same thing by just closing down a dozen upper river stackholes and this would still allow anglers to fish the pocket water and shallow/ runs for fresh migrating fish while leaving the stale mature fish alone.




Logged

DanTfisherman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 123
Re: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2020, 02:11:35 PM »

I agree with much of what is said in the various suggestions.

While I do enjoy flyfishing and have caught Steelhead on the fly, I do not necessarily agree with making the system "flyfishing only" for a length of time.
One of my more successful outings, I landed a decent number of Steelhead on my 5 wt while targeting Cut-throat.  I happened to be using sparkle buggers and while my buddy had a drift rod, he was not hooking up.  The next day, I returned to the same location with my eight weight and did well, but as an conscious angler, realized my potential impact from the previous day of playing fish with light equipment.

Using fly rods does not guarantee a "more ethical, or morale" angler is targeting the fish.  Why would those who still wish to fish and catch fish not switch over?  We know and understand many fish are taken in the lower river, at places such as "The Gauntlet" effectively by both fly fishermen and drift anglers.  The world of flyfishing has evolved and improved immensely in the past 20 years to become effective and efficient.  To be honest, the world of drift fishing and the gear used has pretty much stayed the same during that same time period.

I mention this, for there have been times when we have been targeting steelhead we could visually see were holding with all sorts of items, from roe, to blades, to rubber worms.  No success.  But the minute I put on my sinking line with a popsicle leech, I had the fish on first cast.  Many anglers now swear by gigs above all other gear they may deploy.  How is the fly designed with the same colours and materials as a gig any different?

I would be a supporter of earlier closures and closures which affect all anglers equally.
I think anglers cannot do this goal/plan in isolation, and regulations must be made which affect all other areas which have an impact on these fish and their survival.

I saw these same types of arguments deployed by anglers who were adamant they were the true advocates of the Thompson River Steelhead.  For years, I would post against gear restrictions on the Thompson which pitted different angler groups against one another.  My reason for this was once anglers were divided, and the other various groups (not recreational anglers) who were having a drastic impact were ignored, the Thompson system would be irrelevant, efforts become non existent, and decline would take place quickly.  We had gear restrictions set in place, and once that happened, any discussions I ever heard about the Thompson system disappeared and became non existent.  Now, where is the Thompson at?  Even in it's horrible state of decline, it takes a poorly done global news article to generate measly discussion on the subject.

One of the points made which I am confused by and do not agree with is as follows:
"8.   To allow anglers the opportunity of harvesting (killing) steelhead, increase hatchery production on the Chehalis, Allouette, Stave and Campbell River systems."

I fish these systems for Steelhead.  Maybe it is time to not keep things back, but the Statlu (feeds into the Chehalis) without a doubt produces some of the largest, most fiercest fighting wild steelhead I have ever caught.  Why must systems who cannot sustain a large number of anglers be regulated to having their populations of wild stock steelhead reduced to hatchery kill fishery systems?  Why not convert the whole lower mainland to catch and release fisheries?  Even in systems where we may see the "native" stock has been impacted by hatchery clones, left to their own and given time, they will revert to an evolved, native Steelhead of a sorts once again.  I would argue a surviving, altered, evolved, wild steelhead would be much better than no steelhead at all.  Efforts should be employed to support all strains of Steelhead in the Fraser valley, including systems not mentioned such as the Pitt, the Coquitlam, Coquhalla, the Seymour, Capalino, Norrish, Kanaka Creek, Whonnock Creek, and those in the Harrison watershed.  I have even seen images of wild steelhead in Marshall Creek.

Hatcheries should remain, but as research centers, focusing on enhancing salmon stocks through hatchery production, but maybe research for Steelhead, dedicated to learning more about them and as places to preserve their genes (genome banks?).  Maybe a program can be devised to incubate and raise a certain number of eggs, to ensure they are not washed out of the gravel, buried by mud or landslides, or eaten by predators.  Once the eggs are hatched, the fish are released quickly into the system, rather than raised in tanks.  I know some would argue for a complete halt to human intervention and assistance, but I think in light of all the damage and impact we have had on their ecosystem, we need to admit this is likely impossible, and without some intervention on our part, their future years in the lower mainland and Fraser tributaries will be much shorter than we would wish for.  Even at that, I feel their days are limited and future expropriation is unavoidable.

These are a few of my thoughts on the subject.
While I find internet discussion and conversation interesting, I am unfortunately more inclined to accept Andrew Weaver's hypothesis he formulated on West Coast Salmonoids back in 1989/90.  He predicted as climates warmed and ecosystems changed, our most vulnerable salmonoids on the West Coast would go extinct, as those which survived evolved and made their way north to propagate ecosystems which were more favourable to their survival.  As we are content to discuss what should happen, point fingers at one another, and do nothing to change things to make it happen, I am more inclined to see this as our salmonoids future fate.

We and the selfish needs of our current society are these fishes worst enemies.

Dano
Logged

poper

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 371
Re: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2020, 03:12:35 PM »

Are you proposing .Making it fly fishing only from Mar 1 to the end of April, better for the fish? Or just so people can fly fish with out other drift guys around? So during the other months there’s no fly fishing allowed?
Logged

RalphH

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4860
    • Initating Salmon Fry
Re: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2020, 03:14:09 PM »

20 years ago there was not as much interest in fly fishing the Chilliwack for steelhead in the winter months.

It seems one theme that runs through some of the discussions above is a need to reduce the angling pressure on the wild steelhead that are left in the system As Rod said in his post on the Global News page the causes of the declines we have seen of late are many, complicated, not well understood and to some extent beyond our control. That means no matter what we do it may have little positive impact, if any.

If we are unwilling to use tackle restrictions to lower angling pressure what others measures are there or should we consider complete closures for much of the season with a short catch and release period when fish numbers allow. If we continue to enhance or even intensify enhancement on other systems how will that impact those mostly smaller systems with even more troubled populations of wild steelhead? I don't see the benefit left in destroying what quality of angling left on those streams to provide a certain segment of anglers who have to catch something they can eat. Those streams are as valuable as the Vedder. Anglers who live in Chilliwack have never had to bother to find that out.
Logged
"Two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity... though I am not completely sure about the Universe" ...Einstein as related to F.S. Perls.

Dave

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3377
Re: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2020, 03:19:43 PM »

Are you proposing .Making it fly fishing only from Mar 1 to the end of April, better for the fish? Or just so people can fly fish with out other drift guys around? So during the other months there’s no fly fishing allowed?

Folks, this was written 20 years ago. Take the good parts and discard the rest, this is meant as a discussion on how we can conserve these early run fish.

Besides, back then I had pretty much stopped gear fishing and was a fly guy  ;D ;D ;D
Logged

CohoJake

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 727
Re: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2020, 04:02:09 PM »

If we want to reduce pressure, how about a complete closure 3 or 4 days a week?  Tuesday thru Thursday?  Or even Sunday thru Wednesday?  That way there is only one day of weekend pressure per week. 
Logged

wildmanyeah

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2018
Re: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2020, 04:52:24 PM »

I don't think reducing the pressure is the answer when the main source of wild fish mortality comes from the wild brood take. Also I think to effective reduce fishing pressure you would probably need to shut it down for weeks at a time.

So there really is only a few options. Don't take wild fish for brood and run a C&R fishery or take less brood when the return is week. That would probably mean taking later time brood after % of the run could be enumerated.

Or take brood from hatchery fish
Logged

psd1179

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 731
Re: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2020, 05:02:36 PM »

I don't think reducing the pressure is the answer when the main source of wild fish mortality comes from the wild brood take. Also I think to effective reduce fishing pressure you would probably need to shut it down for weeks at a time.

So there really is only a few options. Don't take wild fish for brood and run a C&R fishery or take less brood when the return is week. That would probably mean taking later time brood after % of the run could be enumerated.

Or take brood from hatchery fish

That means C & R only. just like skeena area. Which is not bad idea. The result is reduce the angling pressure
Logged

RalphH

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4860
    • Initating Salmon Fry
Re: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2020, 05:28:23 PM »

I don't think reducing the pressure is the answer when the main source of wild fish mortality comes from the wild brood take.

...and how do we know that is the main source of wild fish mortality? With evidence that most if not all the wild fish get hooked and landed in a season and a good % 2x with mort rates in the 2 to 10% on a single hook and release logically the wild stock c&r mortality adds up to 35 or more pretty quickly.

Consider we don't know

- how being hooked and landed 2x or more affects mortality rates but most assume it will go up with subsequent events.

- how being hooked and landed affects spawning success or gamete survival efficiency

assuming c&r mortality is not involved is suspect.
Logged
"Two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity... though I am not completely sure about the Universe" ...Einstein as related to F.S. Perls.

wildmanyeah

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2018
Re: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2020, 05:57:25 PM »

For the early times fish I think it’s a smaller factor then The brood take.

If C@R is a significant cause then the only solution would be to shut it down. I think pushing for that will cause Interest groups to dig in their heels and nothing will be done.

Why not run it like the coho fishery
Logged

wildmanyeah

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2018
Re: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2020, 06:17:23 PM »

ENGO don’t care about steelhead, First Nations don’t care about steelhead only recreational fishermen do. Reducing or eliminating C@R would be the end of anyone who cares about this fish.

From bob Hooton:

“ Not an unreasonable outlook but only because the salmon fishery, on all three fronts, is focused entirely on harvest. The steelhead scenario is quite different in that catch and release has sustained fisheries that wouldn’t otherwise have lasted as long as they did. The east coast Vancouver Island example is one to learn from. Closures eventually eliminated all interest. A quarter century later there is only a handful of anglers left fishing the half dozen rivers that might still support a steelhead or two. We’re falling off the perch steadily now and nowhere near numerous enough to generate any political pressure that might have made a difference re habitat protection, water abstraction, etc. There is no one to throw the torch to. Attend a local F&G club gathering or three these days and check out the demographics for a lesson in this regard.“
Logged

avid angler

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 370
Re: Decline Of Steelhead On Global Tonight.
« Reply #44 on: January 03, 2020, 08:42:40 PM »

For the early times fish I think it’s a smaller factor then The brood take.

If C@R is a significant cause then the only solution would be to shut it down. I think pushing for that will cause Interest groups to dig in their heels and nothing will be done.

Why not run it like the coho fishery

Man not trying to be rude but didn’t you say in the past you haven’t actually steelhead fished? It’s been years since they have taken more then 8-10 fish for brood before February. I usually see piss poor handling of atleast that many fish for the fb/ig crew every year that could very easily result in pre spawn mortality
Logged