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Author Topic: Draconian Fisheries Closures  (Read 19755 times)

Wiseguy

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #90 on: May 12, 2019, 11:54:08 AM »

That's assuming the tag on the case is truthful. Could the fish at Long Liner have come from Washington? Or Alaska? Has anyone called them to ask where they got the fish? Has anyone contacted DFO? The media? If there are definitely no legal ways to have gotten the fish, seems pretty straightforward to get them to stop selling it.
I called them and they confirmed they are indeed Fraser River chinooks.
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IronNoggin

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #91 on: May 15, 2019, 03:13:20 PM »

Now up to SIXTEEN Openings. This time the Lower. The 24 hour canyon opening will be nothing short of a slaughter.

https://www-ops2.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fraserriver/firstnations/PDFs/CeremonialOpeningTimes.pdf
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IronNoggin

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #92 on: May 15, 2019, 04:16:05 PM »

Just posted this on Wilkinson's FB Page:

Hasn't even been a month, yet SIXTEEN openings you have let, many of them a week's long duration, on the most endangered runs of Chinook the Fraser has??!! That works out to nets in the water more often than not since you told us all that was the EXACT reason you were forcing everyone else off the water!? You are indeed "raising the bar" as you so eloquently put it. In the highest achievable level of HYPOCRISY possible that is.

Nog
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IronNoggin

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #93 on: May 15, 2019, 05:10:24 PM »

Make that SEVENTEEN (see previous link above) as another canyon 24 hour opening was just announced.

Starting to get the gist of this bull crap yet?

Nog
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redside1

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #94 on: May 16, 2019, 08:01:50 AM »

let's all remember that there first has to be enough for conservation and then there has to be enough for FN's fsc alloment (whatever that is) and then finally after there is enough for them the sports and commercial sector get to fish.
DFO has decided that there is only enough for conservation and FN's to fish at this time. Welcome to the court ruled world we now live in.  If they wantedto , FN's could have also pushed and had the entire coast shut down because someone in the haida gwaii may catch a Fraser chinook that should have been gill netted in the Fraser at a later date.

I received this in an email a little while ago

The reason itís closed to recreational fishing is this 2018 court decision which ties dfoís hands:

https://www.mandellpinder.com/ahousaht-indian-band-and-nation-v-canada-attorney-general-2018-bcsc-633-case-summary/

Apparently the federal government spent 19 million in legal costs fighting this case but lost.

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wildmanyeah

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #95 on: May 16, 2019, 09:04:29 AM »

let's all remember that there first has to be enough for conservation and then there has to be enough for FN's fsc alloment (whatever that is) and then finally after there is enough for them the sports and commercial sector get to fish.
DFO has decided that there is only enough for conservation and FN's to fish at this time. Welcome to the court ruled world we now live in.  If they wantedto , FN's could have also pushed and had the entire coast shut down because someone in the haida gwaii may catch a Fraser chinook that should have been gill netted in the Fraser at a later date.

I received this in an email a little while ago

The reason itís closed to recreational fishing is this 2018 court decision which ties dfoís hands:

https://www.mandellpinder.com/ahousaht-indian-band-and-nation-v-canada-attorney-general-2018-bcsc-633-case-summary/

Apparently the federal government spent 19 million in legal costs fighting this case but lost.

1. The court case is limited to WCVI
2. The goverment did not loose the case, The current Liberal government decided as part of their Reconciliation plan is that they would no longer fight the case in court.
3. Most of the Coast is shut down right now so not sure what hole you have been living in but your a little late to this party.
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IronNoggin

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #96 on: May 16, 2019, 10:52:01 AM »

In both terms of fisheries and wildlife management, CONSERVATION comes first. That VERY much applies in this case. If the early run stocks of chinook are in as bad shape as we understand them to be, then no-one should be removing ANY of them at all. Period.

The Minister publicly stated the restrictions he imposed were emplaced specifically such that the FN's would be throttled back and allow more of these fish to hit the spawning grounds. Sure as hell looks like "business as usual" for them now that everyone else has been booted to the curb. And to hell with "conservation" along the way...

Ticked,
Nog
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Rodney

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #97 on: May 16, 2019, 12:42:22 PM »

lol... Unfortunately you're all barking up the wrong tree here. It might be a shock to those who are now impacted by the closures for the first time, but this approach has been going on within the Lower Fraser River in all salmon fisheries for over a decade now. Closures due to conservation concerns, but limited FN openings are still available as they are prioritized once conservation requirements are "met".

The management measures this year did say all Lower Fraser First Nations communal fisheries will also be closed until mid July, with the exception of some limited ceremonial fisheries, which are the openings you are seeing right now. The term "limited" is probably interpreted quite differently by every group. ;)

As/if stocks get lower, closures like this would just keep expanding. The Fraser itself is not even open for catch and release at the moment, so it wouldn't surprise me if there will be a push for fishing closures (no catch and release) rather than just retention closures like you are seeing right now in the inside waters. It also wouldn't surprise me that closures are implemented in waters further north if Lower Fraser First Nations decide those fisheries are impacting the early Fraser chinook stocks.

IronNoggin

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #98 on: May 16, 2019, 02:58:54 PM »

lol... Unfortunately you're all barking up the wrong tree here. It might be a shock to those who are now impacted by the closures for the first time, but this approach has been going on within the Lower Fraser River in all salmon fisheries for over a decade now. Closures due to conservation concerns, but limited FN openings are still available as they are prioritized once conservation requirements are "met".

Conservation concerns are FAR from being "met" Rod, and you of all people should know that.
What is playing out is a complete travesty, and goes against the very grain of DFO's mandate.
You also understand that... Not?

And yeah, this has been going on for one hell of a long time.
And very much one of, if not THE leading cause for these stocks continuing downward spiral.

Like ya bud, but that spin simply doesn't fly...   ;)

Nog
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IronNoggin

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #99 on: May 16, 2019, 03:09:56 PM »

This post is for any that suggest the FN's have a "right" to these endangered fish.
They do not.
Conservation trumps all (or is supposed to).

NO FN has the so-called right to fish any run into extinction.
And NO government has any call openly supporting them to do so.
What we are witnessing now is a complete travesty on both parts!

Any that wish to educate themselves as to just how low some of the numbers are, have a read:

http://www.frafs.ca/sites/default/files2/Day%201%202019%20Fraser%20River%20Chinook%20Conservation%20Measures.pdf

And before anyone suggests that is somehow validation for DFO's draconian moves, you best come armed with DNA and tag numbers that show just how many of these endangered fish are caught in MOST of the areas shut down. Good luck with that, as that data doesn't exist. In fact the data does exist which well indicates to the contrary (a fact which Wilkinson WELL knows...)

Nog
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Rodney

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #100 on: May 16, 2019, 03:44:18 PM »

Conservation concerns are FAR from being "met" Rod, and you of all people should know that.
What is playing out is a complete travesty, and goes against the very grain of DFO's mandate.
You also understand that... Not?

And yeah, this has been going on for one hell of a long time.
And very much one of, if not THE leading cause for these stocks continuing downward spiral.

Like ya bud, but that spin simply doesn't fly...   ;)

Nog

Matt, don't get me wrong. I'm fully agreeing with your points, I'm just saying what is happening has been an ongoing issue in the Lower Fraser sector for over a decade. The same concerns have been brought up to DFO and SFAB without any results. I'm just chuckling now that the closures have expanded for the same reason and those who did not pay attention before are in shock by it.

IronNoggin

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #101 on: May 16, 2019, 03:53:50 PM »

... I'm just chuckling now that the closures have expanded for the same reason and those who did not pay attention before are in shock by it.

Perhaps that was due to the FACT we were busy collecting scientific data to PROVE we were not impacting those stocks.
And we foolishly thought that DFO would run with science.
Big Mistake.

And while you are "chuckling" by the way, I am running out of things to sell to keep the roof over our heads.
So pardon me if I don't share your humor one whit!   >:(

Nog
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Rodney

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #102 on: May 16, 2019, 03:59:22 PM »

Perhaps that was due to the FACT we were busy collecting scientific data to PROVE we were not impacting those stocks.
And we foolishly thought that DFO would run with science.
Big Mistake.

And while you are "chuckling" by the way, I am running out of things to sell to keep the roof over our heads.
So pardon me if I don't share your humor one whit!   >:(

Nog

Matt, chuckling not as in laughing at your situation, but chuckling at how absurd the situation is. You're not in the only who is having financial challenges due to these management actions.

avid angler

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #103 on: May 16, 2019, 11:34:13 PM »

There has probably been less openings this year then any other year by this time. The only positive outcome of these closures is it will actually bring to light just how often nets are in the water on the Fraser.

Most people havenít paid attention for a long time because of how long itís been since theirs been a chance in hell at an in river recreational opportunity before August. As sport anglers we need to be down the governments throats about mismanagement of wild stocks at all times. Not just when we have nothing better to do because there is no open fisheries to shut people up and keep them happy.
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redside1

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #104 on: May 17, 2019, 10:03:21 AM »

1. The court case is limited to WCVI
2. The goverment did not loose the case, The current Liberal government decided as part of their Reconciliation plan is that they would no longer fight the case in court.
3. Most of the Coast is shut down right now so not sure what hole you have been living in but your a little late to this party.

Half the coast is closed not most. Unfortunately it's the half that has most of the fishing population of BC.
Also not late to the party,  Been involved at different levels for a long time, just usually don't post on many forums due to comments about people living in holes and ones of similar nature.
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