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Author Topic: Draconian Fisheries Closures  (Read 21760 times)

DanL

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2019, 10:59:32 AM »

The misnomer that the Southern Killer Whales are in immediate peril is just that. A lie.
It has been widely sponsored by ENGO's, and swallowed up hook, line & sinker by the Agenda driven DFO.

The current population of ~ 75 is well withing historic population fluctuation parameters, and DFO is damn well aware of that.

...

For any that have an open and inquiring mind, I strongly suggest this is a good place to start:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zz8aEAg7dI

The first 7 minutes of that video directly addresses the historical killer whale numbers.

The next time there is a news report about orcas, pay attention to the wording they use. I guarantee you that they will always add the term "endangered" or similar when reporting on killer whales.  It's quite subliminal, I never really noticed it, but after it was pointed out in the video, it really sticks out once you look for it. However it's now well engrained in the public opinion.

If you recall recently that orca who pushed around her dead calf for two weeks, the news outlets piggy-backed that very well with the endangered population angle. Good luck fighting that. Especially against a public who sees commercial and sport anglers as simply lobbying to harvest salmon for their own economic or personal benefits.
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RalphH

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2019, 12:47:26 PM »

Did I say the whales be captured and raised in aquarium? No sir. I said as an urgent measure to save the whales from starvation and continue to die off, as a temporary solution to save them, is to track the known family pods down. If only a few members are tagged, like they do for tracking some great white sharks, then it is easier to find their location. They don't have to be fed constantly but during time or season when the Chinooks number is low in their resident waters. This supplemental feeding on the high seas will not harm the whales. The boats can drop the Chinooks from a distance in front of the approaching pods and so this won't encroach the pods.

This supplemental feeding can be funded cheaply if the whalewatching operators who are out there looking for them already agree to help with supplemental funding. Why shouldn't they? Their livelihood depends on the welfare and abundance of these whales and the tagging can help them locate the pods all along the coast easily. They may even do it for free if provided with the Chinooks. Even the coastal communities who, if allowed to fish for the non threatened Chinook stocks can provide some of their Chinooks to be used for feeding. It is a viable alternative during this urgent period if trying to save the whales.

This is only a creative idea to save the whales, by the collaboration of user groups who have a keen interest in the welfare of these whales, much more doable and feasible than your proposal to treat fish with human status and rights, Ralph. And this doesn't have to cost BC billions and devastate so many coastal communities. It is worth considering, at least as a temporary measure before the Fraser Chinooks rebound. Unfortunately if FN groups do not comply, as some already say so, and DFO seem fearful of FN to confront them, the Fraser Chinook stocks may never rebound.

Feeding free wild whales is absolutely an unbaked idea. What are you going to feed them? How do you know they will recognize this as food? So once the whales have been habituated to feeding foods from humans how do they get 'turned off this again? The unanswerable questionS just go on and on (like the proposal for a seal cull or harvest).

Large sharks have to captured to be tagged something would not be practical with Killer Whales. It also has a good probability of injury and/or death.

As for granting fish human rights... you don't even understand the meaning of 'person' in law I didn't even propose granting fish status as persons.So you are sticking words in my mouth. I just asked what could this mean.

IN, it seems to me you are uninformed. The legal definition of a 'person' in law does not make them human or give them human rights:

from the Wex Legal Dictionary: "Legal person refers to a human or non-human entity that is treated as a person for limited legal purposes."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/legal_person
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 01:01:00 PM by RalphH »
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IronNoggin

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2019, 01:00:27 PM »

... The unanswerable questionS just go on and on (like the proposal for a seal cull or harvest) ...

Speaking of "unbaked

The ONLY questions left regarding the pinniped harvest are related to politics (sorry, but the science is now complete and accepted by DFO) and in your own little mind Ralphie.

Have a great weekend!  ;)

Cheers,
Nog
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Hike_and_fish

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2019, 03:18:08 PM »

The misnomer that the Southern Killer Whales are in immediate peril is just that. A lie.
It has been widely sponsored by ENGO's, and swallowed up hook, line & sinker by the Agenda driven DFO.

The current population of ~ 75 is well withing historic population fluctuation parameters, and DFO is damn well aware of that.
But they have seized upon the ENGO propaganda as it well meshes with their ongoing plans. Plans which btw do not include recreational nor commercial fishers on the West Coast.

Get informed people!
I expect folks like Ralphie to continue his uninformed spiels here. Simply can't change the spots on many leopards.
That said, the vast majority of you have no excuse for buying into the horsse-pucky.
Do a little research yourself. Your eyes will soon be opened as to what is really afoot here.
Making whales have the same "rights" as humans is the latest ENGO drive, and bought into / spearheaded by lefty legal beagle academics who drool openly at the idea of pushing that forward. Fool's Errand at best.

For any that have an open and inquiring mind, I strongly suggest this is a good place to start:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zz8aEAg7dI

Senior Science in action here folks, removing the blinders The Dino so hungrily wishes you to wear.

For those without the inclination to inform themselves, I suggest removing yourself from future contributions in this regard.
Exposing your ignorance in the matter simply points out your own biases to any that can see...

Nog

Well said
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Hike_and_fish

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2019, 03:21:38 PM »

I'd like to see so.e data on the effects of Fukushima and the Pasific Ocean food chain. Is it still leaking ? And what effects it has had on the local Salmon populations. Things seem to have taken a dive when this happened.
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Steelhawk

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2019, 05:32:23 PM »

It seems from Nog's provided link that this whole episode of saving the whales from a dwindling number due to shortage of food is a bloody lie as the numbers fluctuated over the years. So DFO basically use the whales as an excuse to shut down these poor coastal communities because FN want them to shut down all other sectors in order for them to comply with DFO's request to postpone their netting on the Fraser which is intended to save their own endangered stock. This really illustrates to what extent DFO will do to sacrifice other unrelated groups just to get FN to get in line. So what hope is there for Fraser sports fishing groups to lobby DFO to open Chinooks when FN demand that for them to stop netting sockeye we must stop fishing Chinooks too. No chance!
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skaha

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2019, 08:07:47 PM »

-although the number if resident killer whales are within what one could perceive as normal fluctuation over the years...they are still in trouble.  The reason being the number of females available due to age and health to produce enough calves. everyone seems to be keying on spinning the same information to the extreme of their own views. there are many possible reasons why the whales are not producing offspring. We don't need to embellish nor diminish the plight of the whales. why can't we get to the truth of what is going on? Is it true that to get a deal with FN, DFO had to shut down the fishery (even those not connected to the problem) or dis someone in DFO decide that this is what had to happen?  Why can't FN representatives clear the air?...we (FN) didn't ask for that or we needed concrete proof that DFO was serious before we are willing to go and try and convince our members we have to in good faith close our fishery.
--Are there no honest brokers, no arbitrators that can be trusted...we have to work together in good faith or we're all going to sink with the ship together.
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RalphH

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #67 on: April 28, 2019, 07:58:04 AM »

sorry, but the science is now complete and accepted by DFO

Cheers,
Nog
Still they have all but categorically said no.

You also flip between 2 scientists who disagree; Trites and Walters. Walters the closest person the Pinnepid 'Balance Society has to a friend described seals as a 'proximate' cause of salmon decline. I hope you know the meaning of that too. Oh and let's not forget there no one who will buy those hundreds and thousands of seal carcasses. As Dr Walters said: 'there is no value in them'.

It's just more half baked nonsense passed off as a magic bullet.
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IronNoggin

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #68 on: April 28, 2019, 10:21:12 AM »

... Is it true that to get a deal with FN, DFO had to shut down the fishery (even those not connected to the problem) or dis someone in DFO decide that this is what had to happen?  Why can't FN representatives clear the air?...

That is exactly what DFO representatives said in the meetings, FN written comments and submissions very well show, and the Minister himself publicly stated. In DFO's case, of course they largely failed to mention the fact that many they did shut down had negligible impact on the noted stocks of concern.

Still they have all but categorically said no.

LOL! Ya Think??

Stay Tuned... 

Nog
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Rodney

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IronNoggin

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #70 on: May 09, 2019, 03:15:30 PM »

Something smells fishy

Nothing infuriates me more than when a politician claims to be "following the science" and then goes against it—when he/she claims to be fighting for the environment while at the same time cutting funding to the very programs that support it.

On Wednesday, May 1, I travelled to North Vancouver along with other Whistler and Squamish residents to attend a protest organized by Whistler local Dave Brown against the recent extensive closures of recreational salmon fisheries in our waters.

The turnout was beyond expectations with more than 200 supporters and multiple TV and radio crews in attendance in front of (federal) Fisheries Minister Jonathan Wilkinson's office.

Speakers representing recreational fishermen and women, charter companies and local businesses expressed their support for protecting salmon populations, but their dismay at the lack of science-based decisions and real action in addressing the issues.

As a former environmental scientist and a recreational fisherman, it was deeply frustrating to have our Liberal Fisheries Minister ignore his own department's science and make a decision to completely shut down retention of Chinook salmon on the majority of the South Coast of B.C. until July 31.

This decision will do little to protect the early Fraser Chinook populations of concern; Department of Fisheries and Oceans' (DFO) own DNA data shows recreational anglers catch 0.63 per cent of these Chinook stocks while there are numerous other healthy Chinook populations in our local waters, that should be open to retention.

This spring, the Chinook salmon fishing has been nothing short of spectacular prior to this closure. This closure is severely impacting B.C. coastal communities and business—the very people who care deeply about healthy salmon populations. This is a missed opportunity to put in place a concrete, funded plan that would actually help the Fraser River Chinook populations, rather than (only) giv(ing) the appearance of doing something.

Interestingly, the public fishery in B.C. is a $1.1-billion industry and the largest economic contributor of all the fisheries, supporting 9,000 jobs. However, we catch less than 15 per cent of halibut and 10 per cent of salmon coastwide, and less than four per cent of total fish harvested in B.C.

I want to see Fisheries Minister Wilkinson put into action a recovery plan for early Fraser Chinook that includes Chinook predator control, habitat protection and rehabilitation, key hatchery enhancement as well as adequate funding for fisheries officers and habitat staff.

Attacking recreational anglers under the guise of conservation is a thinly veiled attempt at gaining political favour that inflicts serious harm to the B.C. economy and coastal communities, does not enhance the early Fraser River Chinook salmon stocks and side steps the need to take real and meaningful action.

Be very wary when your elected officials claim to be "following the science."

Mark Steffens // Whistler

https://m.piquenewsmagazine.com/whistler/letters-to-the-editor-for-the-week-of-may-9/Content?oid=13827008
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IronNoggin

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #71 on: May 09, 2019, 03:16:57 PM »

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TNAngler

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2019, 08:43:44 AM »

Wait, so if whales are given rights as humans, and salmon do.  If a whale eats a salmon can it be charged with murder?  And I thought politics in the US was bad but you guys are screwed up up there, lol, sorry.
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IronNoggin

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2019, 02:54:22 PM »

Two more in river Chinook FN openings for five days each just ending. Or are they?

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/abor-autoc/UpperFraser/UMFOpenTimes-eng.htm
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Hike_and_fish

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2019, 04:24:56 PM »

Two more in river Chinook FN openings for five days each just ending. Or are they?

https://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/fraser/docs/abor-autoc/UpperFraser/UMFOpenTimes-eng.htm

You change the language and you change the perception. Indians become Natives become First Nations. Because they were here first. First to the start of the line, first to Benefit.

The public has become conditioned to accepting giving FN groups more because.... well..... First Nations. Your evil ancestors stole their land. You should feel guilty. They were here first.
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