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Author Topic: Draconian Fisheries Closures  (Read 24113 times)

RalphH

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2019, 07:10:49 PM »

IT also doesn't jive with how Coho fisheries are managed

maybe that's because the objectives are different
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Hike_and_fish

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2019, 08:56:45 PM »

I honestly could care less any more. But maybe this is what FN and DFO wants. Theres a small part of me that wants to hand everything over and give up. Let them sink the ship. I can honestly say with 100% honesty during this past Sockeye fishery on the Fraser I religiously fished Lower Mountain bar. Straight north from Island 22. I would head up at 5am in the dark with help from my chartplotter. Everytime there was an opening for the Chehalis band they were there drifting in the dark with set nets in behind moutain bar. Their opening did not start till 7 or 8 am and EVERYTIME there was beer cans in their boats, on the bar and PILES of Springs under the floor in their boats. I was offered a Spring EVERYTIME I went there and so was everyone else that fished that bar. 100% truth, they were handing out springs to EVERYONE. My good friend made a deal with one band member to buy some Spring. He walked out of the rez with 3 coolers full for $150. Their excuse for handing oit the Springs was "We cant keep them because DFO says we have to throw them back dead or alive". Now I get that this is their traditional land. But holy cow. Seeing that was a real eye opener. I hope theres no more salmon left. I kind of do. They dont deserve any.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 10:32:48 PM by Hike_and_fish »
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firstlight

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2019, 10:20:03 AM »

I honestly could care less any more. But maybe this is what FN and DFO wants. Theres a small part of me that wants to hand everything over and give up. Let them sink the ship. I can honestly say with 100% honesty during this past Sockeye fishery on the Fraser I religiously fished Lower Mountain bar. Straight north from Island 22. I would head up at 5am in the dark with help from my chartplotter. Everytime there was an opening for the Chehalis band they were there drifting in the dark with set nets in behind moutain bar. Their opening did not start till 7 or 8 am and EVERYTIME there was beer cans in their boats, on the bar and PILES of Springs under the floor in their boats. I was offered a Spring EVERYTIME I went there and so was everyone else that fished that bar. 100% truth, they were handing out springs to EVERYONE. My good friend made a deal with one band member to buy some Spring. He walked out of the rez with 3 coolers full for $150. Their excuse for handing oit the Springs was "We cant keep them because DFO says we have to throw them back dead or alive". Know I get that this is their traditional land. But holy cow. Seeing that was a real eye opener. I hope theres no more salmon left. I kind of do. They dont deserve any.

Well said.
Thank you.
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wildmanyeah

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2019, 10:57:21 AM »

https://www.pacificangler.ca/pacific-angler-friday-fishing-report-april-19-2019/

Vancouver Saltwater Salmon Fishing Report
Well itís official.  The DFO and Fisheries Minister have made it non-retention for chinook salmon on the south coast.  They just shut down some of the best fishing I have ever seen in our local waters and what is very likely the best fishing on the entire coast right now.  Thatís just our area.  Letís not forget about the iconic sport fishing communities on the Island like Tofino, Ucluelet, Bamfield, Campbell River, Renfrew, and Victoria, just to name a few.  The result is thousands of people are going to lose their jobs and it is going to cost this province hundreds of millions of dollars.

So how did we get here?  Well itís a complicated scenario and the road to this closure has a lot of ups and downs and twists and turns, but it goes something like this.  Chinook stocks are diverse.  Some come from the Fraser, some from rivers that empty directly into the ocean, some spend 2 years in the freshwater before they leave to the ocean, others out migrate right away, some spend their ocean life in local waters, some go way offshore.  So, as you can imagine, some stocks might be suffering while others are doing very well.  Large blanket closures are an ineffective way to manage such a diverse resource.

Enter interior Fraser chinook.  These fish spawn in the interior tributaries to the Fraser, and they hang out in these rivers for 2 years before out-migrating.  To say things are not going well up there is an understatement; less water, long hot summers, warm water, forest fires, siltation, are just a few of the issues these fish have to face for 2 years.  The end result is the survival rate is extremely low.  The few that do make it after 2 years then have to make it past the seals as they leave the Fraser.  Of all the out migrating salmonids, these 2 year old chinook smolts are some of the biggest, only second to steelhead smolts.  As a result, the seals focus on them, as they do steelhead smolts.  As many as 47% of them are consumed by seals.  The few that make it then head offshore to feed and return 2 years later.  In general, they come back around the south end of Vancouver Island and into the south arm of the Fraser, returning in the months of April, May, June, and July.  There is no doubt these fish need to be protected and we are all for that.  Sport fishing regulations have been in place to do so for many years, so much so that our exploitation rate for these fish is either at 0% or so small that it is negligible.

So, what about all these fish off South Bowen right now and over in Nanaimo and Gabriola?  Well these are not the fish I just described above.  DFO has a lot of DNA data that shows what fish we are catching, that is how we can be so certain.  This is a scientific fact, not speculation.  The fish we are we catching in these areas are from a variety of rivers where things are not as dire as the conditions seen in the interior of the province.  The chinook stocks from these systems are stable, and in some cases are at or near record returns.  There is no conservation concern for these stocks and a 2 per day limit is sustainable.  A 1 per day limit is certainly sustainable and acceptable from a scientific fisheries management viewpoint.  If you have been fishing these past 2 weeks you know how many fish are out there.

Then why did we get shut down?   This is the question you should be asking and I am going to tell you the politics behind it.  The reality is this.  The interior Fraser chinook need protection.  Sport fishing regulations have been in place to do so for many years as noted earlier, and commercial troll opportunities for these fish have been reduced heavily in the past and this year are non-existent.   The last piece of the puzzle is First Nations in river fisheries for these same fish.  You canít carve any more meat off the bone from the recreational or commercial fleet, the rest has to come from First Nations in river fisheries.  This isnít me speaking; this is the DFO science that was presented in a variety of meetings and forums.  The only way to put more of these fish on the spawning beds is to stop in river netting of these fish.  Hence the recent closures and reduced opportunities for First Nations over the coming months as per the announcement yesterday.  I hope you are connecting the dots here and asking yourself this question.  So why is a sustainable fishery like we see off South Bowen, for non-interior Fraser chinook, which are experiencing good to excellent survival rates, closed?  You should also be asking yourself why this fishery is closed when it has absolutely nothing to do with these interior Fraser chinook.  Well we asked these very questions to the Minister and DFO these past few days.  The answer we received was this. Despite the fact our current local chinook fisheries have no impact on these interior Fraser chinook, they have to close the recreational fleet on a grandiose scale so they can reduce First Nation in river harvesting opportunities for interior Fraser chinook.  We pointed to their science that shows we arenít catching those fish and asked if we could have 1 a day, the answer was no.  We asked if we could keep a hatchery only, which has absolutely 0 effect on Fraser fish as these fish are from the USA, the answer was no.  In short, the answer is the recreational fleet has to be closed first, and then they can take fisheries measures for First Nations second.  That precedent was set in a case that is often referred to as the Tommy Case.  Let me make this clear.  If there is a conservation concern, I will be the first to put the rods away, and if anyone has a right to the first harvest of those fish, I agree it should be First Nations for ceremonial and food fish purposes.  I get that if we are fishing for the same fish.  What I donít agree with and what I donít get, is the DFO shutting down one distinct fishery and user group so they can shut down another user group on totally different fish.  This is ludicrous and political, this is not scientific, and this is mismanagement of the resource at the highest level.  So, I think it is important that we are all very clear that this Minister just shut down the entire south coast so they can attempt to reduce First Nation in river impacts on interior Fraser chinook.  On our home waters that means they just shut down South Bowen, Thrasher, Nanaimo, which are all experiencing amazing fishing (for non-interior Fraser stocks), just to have the opportunity to keep First Nations nets out of the Fraser to save interior Fraser stocks.   You can see my frustration.  Unfortunately, I donít think it is going to do much to help these fish.  DFO needs emergency hatchery production for these fish, the habitat needs some help, and we need to deal with the seals.  None of that is happening anytime soon from what I can see.  Since the DFO has sacrificed the whole south coast, I hope they plan on making sure the Fraser is net free until July 14.  I hope fisheries like this have now been closed 2019 Open Times for the Mid & Upper Fraser River First Nations Fisheries  Ė Week 16.  I will give the DFO the benefit of the doubt on this one and assume that is the case; I certainly hope so for the fish.  In the meantime, diverse and sustainable recreational fisheries remain closed and the south coast marine fishery and economy has been cut off at the knees.

If you think this management strategy is unacceptable, you need to let DFO know.  Send an email to these people and let them know this is not acceptable.  Let them know how it is affecting you and let them know how you are going to vote next election.

Hon Jonathan Wilkinson Minister Jonathan.Wilkinson@parl.gc.ca

Rebecca Reid, DFO Regional Director General, Pacific Region Rebecca.Reid@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

We have had a lot of calls asking if you can still go fishing.  The answer is YES.  The regulations say non-retention of chinook, so you can still fish.  You will have to practice catch and release on chinook.  Fishing is nothing short of amazing right now.  Here is a picture from a charter yesterday and fishing was fantastic.  Of course, if you head out now it is catch and release, but that is still a lot of fun.
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greyghost

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2019, 04:27:42 PM »

I honestly could care less any more. But maybe this is what FN and DFO wants. Theres a small part of me that wants to hand everything over and give up. Let them sink the ship. I can honestly say with 100% honesty during this past Sockeye fishery on the Fraser I religiously fished Lower Mountain bar. Straight north from Island 22. I would head up at 5am in the dark with help from my chartplotter. Everytime there was an opening for the Chehalis band they were there drifting in the dark with set nets in behind moutain bar. Their opening did not start till 7 or 8 am and EVERYTIME there was beer cans in their boats, on the bar and PILES of Springs under the floor in their boats. I was offered a Spring EVERYTIME I went there and so was everyone else that fished that bar. 100% truth, they were handing out springs to EVERYONE. My good friend made a deal with one band member to buy some Spring. He walked out of the rez with 3 coolers full for $150. Their excuse for handing oit the Springs was "We cant keep them because DFO says we have to throw them back dead or alive". Know I get that this is their traditional land. But holy cow. Seeing that was a real eye opener. I hope theres no more salmon left. I kind of do. They dont deserve any.
We as well fished that area all season! Thought I was having a summer long nightmare but nope itís the truth! Well said
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Steelhawk

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2019, 09:45:25 AM »

If anything, to the politicians, votes and perhaps civil unrests will carry more weight than any meetings or appeals. Just vote the liberals out from this province in the next election. Those communities in the most affected areas should start a media campaign to expose DFO and it's unfair treatment to BC coastal communities, and sacrificing the livelihood of tens of thousands of ordinary Canadians just to appease FN. You need to create an atmosphere and stereotype that the current federal Liberal Party is unfriendly and insensitive to the struggling BC families. Talk to the media people now. Have them interviewing these affected families and communities to be on prime time news, especially focusing on the effect on kids and young people. Let them talk their fear about their future, about having to face losing homes, jobs, and probably having to leave their devastated communities and their friends. Let the province, and the country hear about their sufferings just because federal liberals don't care a dime about sacrificing them in order to appease FN for doing the right thing, in the first place, to protect their own endangered Fraser interior springs. Only political pressure of such nature and scope will get the attention of Trudeau and he can then tell his fishery minister to not f... up BC and the voters too much. Lol. Time to organize some public protests, even protest fisheries, by these communities and invite the media. If this can't stop or changetheir decision, at least make the liberals pay a heavy political price. Make next election a anybody but Trudeau election!!! With the recent SNC-Lavalin scandal still stinging his poor rating, Trudeau doesn't need BC to add to his poor public image or rating. Lol.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 10:10:29 AM by Steelhawk »
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Steelhawk

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2019, 10:23:50 AM »

we'll close fishing off but

we'll continue clear cutting forests
we'll continue developing wet lands
we'll continue polluting rivers
we'll continue building dams
we'll continue using agricultural pesticides

we'll continue all other harmful practices that kill fish in millions... but, you can't take an extra fish out of the ocean.

The same thing DFO allows chum fisheries and so many net openings on the Fraser and you can't do even c&r on the Fraser coho until the prime coho season is over. Sporties are often sacrificed for political reasons.
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armytruck

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2019, 12:31:04 PM »

My concern is .What about enforcement , are there more officers going to be out making sure there are no double dippers out there . That's a lot of water to cover out there . 
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Hike_and_fish

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2019, 02:24:01 PM »

If anything, to the politicians, votes and perhaps civil unrests will carry more weight than any meetings or appeals. Just vote the liberals out from this province in the next election. Those communities in the most affected areas should start a media campaign to expose DFO and it's unfair treatment to BC coastal communities, and sacrificing the livelihood of tens of thousands of ordinary Canadians just to appease FN. You need to create an atmosphere and stereotype that the current federal Liberal Party is unfriendly and insensitive to the struggling BC families. Talk to the media people now. Have them interviewing these affected families and communities to be on prime time news, especially focusing on the effect on kids and young people. Let them talk their fear about their future, about having to face losing homes, jobs, and probably having to leave their devastated communities and their friends. Let the province, and the country hear about their sufferings just because federal liberals don't care a dime about sacrificing them in order to appease FN for doing the right thing, in the first place, to protect their own endangered Fraser interior springs. Only political pressure of such nature and scope will get the attention of Trudeau and he can then tell his fishery minister to not f... up BC and the voters too much. Lol. Time to organize some public protests, even protest fisheries, by these communities and invite the media. If this can't stop or changetheir decision, at least make the liberals pay a heavy political price. Make next election a anybody but Trudeau election!!! With the recent SNC-Lavalin scandal still stinging his poor rating, Trudeau doesn't need BC to add to his poor public image or rating. Lol.

The prrof is out there that these decisions and the recent reconciliation movement is not just the decision of the current federal government. however, I will definitely NOT be voting for the federal Liberals this coming election. I made that decision a long time ago. I say he goes back to Cuba and rules his REAL fathers country ;)
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Steelhawk

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2019, 03:10:46 PM »

My concern is .What about enforcement , are there more officers going to be out making sure there are no double dippers out there . That's a lot of water to cover out there .

The real problem of the closure or reduction of quota is not about catching people out there, but for the tourism fishing based communities is the their tourist clients ain't coming to BC due to all the negatives. Yea, with few coming to fish, that will be a lot of waters to cover to find fishing boats out there. Lol.
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GordJ

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2019, 06:21:36 PM »

Steelhawk, you mention voting out the Liberals, who do you suggest that we elect? The Conservatives who had control of the fisheries for the previous term? Itís pretty easy argument that they let the fishery get into this shape.
Iím not, in any way, insensitive to the economic ramifications of this shutdown but I donít see the logic in letting the fishery decline just to give us one more shot at catching a spring before theyíre gone. Why not try a little healing before we pronounce the fishery dead?
I know that people will lose their livelihoods and business and homes but this is inevitable if the fish are all gone.
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skaha

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2019, 07:54:16 PM »

--does not matter what party you vote for...what is important is that you make it clear to your candidate of choice that fisheries are of significant importance to you. Further ask them in both public and private forums, meetings, gatherings what they intend to do to other than look into it. The federal election is on the way. get out and ask questions whenever possible.
--don't accept fisheries policies that do not include a plan for recovery  and forget the promises to fix everything by 2050...results based promises are meaningless without progressive steps some of which should start today! what are they doing today!
--I don't expect my garden to appear at harvest time if I don't tend the soil and plant something today and other things next week and so on thus will have some short and long term crops. lettuce soon and potatoes later in the year. I don't expect to harvest without getting to work now.
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Steelhawk

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2019, 09:08:06 PM »

Steelhawk, you mention voting out the Liberals, who do you suggest that we elect? The Conservatives who had control of the fisheries for the previous term? Itís pretty easy argument that they let the fishery get into this shape.
Iím not, in any way, insensitive to the economic ramifications of this shutdown but I donít see the logic in letting the fishery decline just to give us one more shot at catching a spring before theyíre gone. Why not try a little healing before we pronounce the fishery dead?
I know that people will lose their livelihoods and business and homes but this is inevitable if the fish are all gone.

You are missing the point of my post. As the minutes of the meetings with DFO show in an earlier post, the fishery minister is obviously insensitive to evening opening fisheries of stocks or areas where the endangered Fraser stock don't hang around. But instead, appeasing FN in order to get them off the water, the minister is willing to endanger the way of life of tens of thousands of people, families which in one way or another depends on this tourist based fishing for eons of time. The blanket closure is done for political reason at the sacrifice of so many just so that some nets on the Fraser are not there in the water too soon. It is not not being fair to these Canadian families. If we don't get to fish, no big deal. There is another river or lakes to spend time or simply go travel somewhere to enjoy fishing. But when these families (or their clients) don't get to fish, they will have to face where to find some income to pay mortgage and foods. Those communities will suffer big time both financially and emotionally. Hardship will breed family problems with social consequences. Did the minister care a bit about these people. If he does, he would be more flexible. But not according to those minutes published earlier. Such an insensitive approach towards struggling BC families and communities just to appease FN to cooperate should be exposed to the public via the media, and such politicians who allow such thing to happen should pay for it with their political life. The conservatives may not have a better management of the fisheries, but they are not the one to issue such blanket closure that totally send these coastal communities into chaos and crisis.
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GordJ

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2019, 10:28:13 PM »

Those thousands of people that you are talking about wonít have a livelihood if there are no fish. This action is one that is incomplete but it is the best solution that any government has proposed yet. The practices of every government before this has brought about this situation.
As far as the lifestyle ďchangesĒ for all those affected goes, it is not very different from the fallers, elevator operators or asbestos miners situation was when the world changed. As devastating as this will be it is unavoidable if there are no fish. The status quo is unsustainable those people canít continue to find employment in a dying industry.
To suggest that the previous regimes cared more about the people or resource than the first one to provide any action is not, in my opinion, accurate. Sometimes you have to amputate part of the leg to save the body and that line has gone far enough up the leg that the decision to get rid of the less healthy parts is the humane one.
I agree that the Indian opening is a sore spot but, in my opinion, that is less important to me than the overall benefit from the larger restrictions.
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Steelhawk

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Re: Draconian Fisheries Closures
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2019, 11:27:08 PM »

You obviously haven't read the minutes in full to realize what they were saying. There are areas with plenty of fish not of Fraser origin and the hot fishing of those in the waters confirm such situation. Those appealing to the minister are trying to have these areas open to some fishing but the answer is flat no, and the reason give is that, once again, sporties have to be all off the water (even though they are not affecting the Fraser stock) so that FN can agree to have their nets delayed. This has nothing to do with 'there is no fish', but that FN somehow has turned the recreational sector as ransom for their agreeing to protect their own endangered stock, and that is the problem that they don't even care that if they don't protect those early runs, they will be history. DFO is 'scared' of FN for whatever reason. They can't stand firm on the ground that they are the government body entrusted with the funding and the science to determine what stocks are at risk and what kind of action (save for a blanket closure) will help those endangered stock without having to bend to FN's demand that all other people can't fish even in areas without the endangered stock. So DFO is in a way turning into a political lobbying organization of sort, lobbying with their feared 'master' just to get them to do something that should have been non-negotiable. Why should DFO cave in on matters as conservation which is their top mandate? And why DFO should take 'orders' from FN on what to do in regards to measure of conservation, such as postponing the netting on the Fraser? That is the question to answer.
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