Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Commercial FN Fishery Granted  (Read 15975 times)

RalphH

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5050
    • Initating Salmon Fry
Re: Commercial FN Fishery Granted
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2018, 10:11:47 AM »

lots of self serving rationalization of outright racism.

My house? How do you know there is a claim on my house? If they do so what. It won't change my opinion.
FN claims don't extend to Fee simple title. Under Fee simple the ultimate owner is the government...not me.
Logged
It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!" ...Mark Twain

dobrolub

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 390
Re: Commercial FN Fishery Granted
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2018, 10:26:29 AM »

Under Fee simple the ultimate owner is the government...not me.
Yeah, that's a fair observation. RIP democracy.
Logged

IronNoggin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1772
  • Any River... Any Time....
Re: Commercial FN Fishery Granted
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2018, 11:55:16 AM »

I won't even get into it, as I know the track record of those who are tasked to over see this judgment.

And I WELL know and understand their track record in terms of fallout & actions on the water.   ::)

You do understand the term "Precedence" don't you?
And you do understand the door is now wide open for every single coastal & near coastal band to follow suit as a consequence don't you?

I will however agree with you that everyone should have a good read of the Decision to better understand just what this means to ALL marine fisheries in BC. In terms of coming up with "new regulations" the Minister is about to tie everyone's hands who ever might be involved with doing so down the road - by insuring these commercial fisheries come before ANY OTHER SECTOR.

http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt/sc/18/06/2018BCSC0633.htm

By the way, Jimmy P did not end up with the "retired" troll licenses as you suggest.
The department simply gave them to FN organizations as they were stolen at Fire Sale prices.
Nice attempt at diversion though...

Nog
Logged

Steelhawk

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1384
  • Fish In Peace !
Re: Commercial FN Fishery Granted
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2018, 04:17:13 PM »

If this trend continues that FN takes over rights over even tributaries of the Fraser such as the Vedder or even the Stamp on the island, then that will mean the end of recreational fishery as we know it. Can you imagine nets stretching across the lower Canal the whole season? Gosh! For us oldies we will just retire from fishing but there will be a lot of people serving the recreational fishery out of a job and that will apply to tackle shops, guides, even tackle manufacturers. Not pretty!!! Hopefully FN will sell their catches cheap. Lol.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 04:19:42 PM by Steelhawk »
Logged

Blood_Orange

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 659
Re: Commercial FN Fishery Granted
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2018, 04:55:57 PM »

Its giving preference to one ethnic group over another the very definition of racism ? I think it is.

I like how you define racism in one sentence and then agree with yourself to prove your point ::) Here, I Googled a more comprehensive definition for you:

Logged

stsfisher

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 424
Re: Commercial FN Fishery Granted
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2018, 07:28:28 PM »

And I WELL know and understand their track record in terms of fallout & actions on the water.   ::)

You do understand the term "Precedence" don't you?
And you do understand the door is now wide open for every single coastal & near coastal band to follow suit as a consequence don't you?

I will however agree with you that everyone should have a good read of the Decision to better understand just what this means to ALL marine fisheries in BC. In terms of coming up with "new regulations" the Minister is about to tie everyone's hands who ever might be involved with doing so down the road - by insuring these commercial fisheries come before ANY OTHER SECTOR.

http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt/sc/18/06/2018BCSC0633.htm

By the way, Jimmy P did not end up with the "retired" troll licenses as you suggest.
The department simply gave them to FN organizations as they were stolen at Fire Sale prices.
Nice attempt at diversion though...

Nog

Nog, you have lost your mind trying to argue with me over something I was actually agreeing with you on. I know the government will do a horrible job at managing this new claim, just as they heave with every other fishery related decision in the last 20 years.
You holding a grudge that tight that you can't seem to see that?
Whatever.

No diversions Nog.

Logged

big_fish

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 310
  • I'm a llama!
Re: Commercial FN Fishery Granted
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2018, 07:37:58 PM »

Nog, you have lost your mind trying to argue with me over something I was actually agreeing with you on.

lol...
Logged

RalphH

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5050
    • Initating Salmon Fry
Re: Commercial FN Fishery Granted
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2018, 06:44:04 AM »

Yeah, that's a fair observation. RIP democracy.

surprises me how how 'unknowing' many people are...

racism -if you look at a situation such as this and all you can see is race without consideration of history or law or the process, then that is racism - that's essence of racism as far as I am concerned.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 06:45:49 AM by RalphH »
Logged
It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!" ...Mark Twain

dobrolub

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 390
Re: Commercial FN Fishery Granted
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2018, 08:07:56 AM »

Regardless of the history and the process I can see that reconciliation will not be achieved if we keep instilling guilt in one part of population and a sense of entitlement in another, all based on race.

I am sorry you don't see that this reconciliation will in fact work to achieve the opposite effect, and for many year to come the society will remain divided, differences will get deeper and remain unsolved.

Sorry, but that's what it will be. Is that the future you want for your children?
Logged

purple monster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 108
Re: Commercial FN Fishery Granted
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2018, 09:01:33 AM »

I come from a small peninsula in Canada where the salmon fishing rivers were close to the local and totally restricted to paying American customers.  Where one local was even shot in the back for attempting to fish these rivers. 

I cannot remember in what year exactly, in mid-eighties, these rivers were returned to locals for their own uses, and no longer restricted to paying customers.
Sadly, it took only a few years for all the wild Atlantic salmon to severely be reduce in great numbers.

The fishes are not racist, they will bite on who's ever lure and be strangled in anyone nets.

A sad memory.
Logged

Hike_and_fish

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 891
Re: Commercial FN Fishery Granted
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2018, 10:46:43 AM »

surprises me how how 'unknowing' many people are...

racism -if you look at a situation such as this and all you can see is race without consideration of history or law or the process, then that is racism - that's essence of racism as far as I am concerned.

There really should not be any confusion as to what the true definition is. I started the exact definition in my first post. There's no twisting anything around. The problem is our society labels humans and categorizes us into sepperate "Race" groups. Ok fine. If that's the way it's going to be, fine. The federal government in this country gives favors to one race over another. It's that simple. They have done many other race groups wrong but all they get is an apology? I would think in a few hundred years everyone who is non native would receive an apology as well ?

Over 50 billion dollars a year is spent on native affairs in the country. Money doesnt fix anything and neither does victim mentality.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2018, 11:08:43 AM by Hike_and_fish »
Logged

IronNoggin

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1772
  • Any River... Any Time....
Re: Commercial FN Fishery Granted
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2018, 10:59:50 AM »

Nog, you have lost your mind trying to argue with me over something I was actually agreeing with you on. I know the government will do a horrible job at managing this new claim, just as they heave with every other fishery related decision in the last 20 years.

Apologies.
Yes, I am completely wound up over this one, and yes I am likely not seeing to straight as a consequence.
Happens sometimes when one's livelihood is suddenly and without warning yanked out from underneath of them.
Did not mean to come across as harsh as I did.

I'll withdraw from any further comment at this point & hope there are no hard feelings...

Matt
Logged

RalphH

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5050
    • Initating Salmon Fry
Re: Commercial FN Fishery Granted
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2018, 02:10:56 PM »

There really should not be any confusion as to what the true definition is. I started the exact definition in my first post. There's no twisting anything around. The problem is our society labels humans and categorizes us into sepperate "Race" groups. Ok fine. If that's the way it's going to be, fine. The federal government in this country gives favors to one race over another. It's that simple. They have done many other race groups wrong but all they get is an apology? I would think in a few hundred years everyone who is non native would receive an apology as well ?

Over 50 billion dollars a year is spent on native affairs in the country. Money doesnt fix anything and neither does victim mentality.

No it is not that simple. If one can't see beyond the race issue - then what does that make that person? All aspects have to be considered.

If a person steals an item - how long do they have to have it in their possession before it belongs to them?

Never.

Pretty simple.

You are also wrong about something - the Nuu Chah Nulth are not a race, not by themselves anyway. They are a linguistic and cultural group. Neither are all the FNs in BC a race.

Charges of 'racism' are all wet.

If the Federal government is favouring the FN people in this case then why did they go to court as opposed to simply giving the Nuu Chah Nulth what they wanted?

Other racial groups have also been given compensation for past wrongs done by the Federal Government - Japanese Canadians interned during the war were each given $21,000 in compensation in 1988. Other government funds were spent on establishing foundations and other organization
« Last Edit: April 24, 2018, 11:46:18 AM by RalphH »
Logged
It ain't what you don't know that gets you in trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so!" ...Mark Twain

wildmanyeah

  • Old Timer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2056
Re: Commercial FN Fishery Granted
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2018, 03:19:54 PM »

There is not enough wild salmon left to support all the First Nations groups in BC financially.

At some point the government is going to have to deal with that.

Perhaps we should pay FN for sports fishing since it was also a historical practice like commercial trade of salmon.

Here is some passage from an old fly fishing book in BC

“The only way to fish the river properly is to get a good
Indian at Alert Bay and let him take you up in a canoe.”

“There are Indians on the Sardis Reserve who would act as guides and furnish horses”

“This creek, which is of fair size, runs for about ten miles
from Cheehalis Lake into Harrison River. It can be reached
by taking an Indian with a canoe and going several miles up
the Harrison or by going down the Harrison from the Harrison
Lake Hotel (mentioned later on) by launch or boat.”

“To get to Stewart Lake you get off at Vanderhoof on the
G. T. P. and take the stage to Fort St. James. This place is
situated on the lake at the exit of the Stewart River. There
are stores, and accommodation is to be had, and Indians and
canoes and boats can be hired at quite reasonable rates.”
Logged

Sir Snag-A-Lot

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 118
Re: Commercial FN Fishery Granted
« Reply #29 on: April 23, 2018, 09:15:16 PM »

It is horrible that the trade of commercial fishing appears to be coming to an end for the general British Columbian population. I feel horrible for anyone affected by this. Many commercial fishers have huge investments in their boats and other equipment, which when coupled with minimal quotas, will cripple many well intentioned tax payers.

The simple fact is however that our fish stocks are in a rapid decline from which it’s very unlikely they are going to recover. We don’t need to make a list of all of the factors that threaten salmon populations as they have all been discussed endlessly, and very little seems to change. We cannot deny that non-indigenous commercial fisheries over the past 100+ years though have a huge role to play in this decline. 

This is not the forum to discuss the historical wrongs done to indigenous Canadians either, but we know that they are many. From the Indian Act (which is still Canadian law, albeit somewhat less racist than the original document), to residential schools, to disenfranchisement, to the Sixties Scoop, etc., the history of our nation right up to modern day has been one of systematic racism towards indigenous groups. There are many living indigenous people in Canada who suffered these traumas directly, and many more who are still suffering due to their inter-generational effects. This leads to low education rates, high unemployment, high levels of criminality, addiction, etc. when compared to the general Canadian population.

Part of reconciliation is trying to right some of these wrongs to allow indigenous Canadians to break free from these negative cycles. Commercial fishing may be an opportunity for this. Given the traditional connections to fisheries shared by most BC nations, and the lack of formal education needed to fish commercially, this move may allow many indigenous British Columbians to improve their lives and the lives of future generations. This is reconciliation.

It is horrible that general commercial and recreational fishers (including myself) get bumped down the line and will suffer the consequences, but to not do this would be to continue the legacy of colonial racism.

Although there are bad apples in every group that affect the whole group’s reputation, traditional BC First Nations fishing practices are very conservation-minded. Connectedness with nature, reverence for salmon and multi-generational thinking are common in First Nations spirituality. I hope that with being given a larger piece of this resource salmon will have a better chance of surviving into the future.   
Logged